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And some sort of marketing strategy. Especially finished FOSS.
KDE was matured, by just about all metrics. Konqueror was one of the most brilliant pieces of software, unmatched in utility and power, both as a filemanager and as a browser. They had to fiddle with it and take 5 steps back with dolphin.

Same goes for quite a few other components. Instead of constantly rehawling everything, they should iterate and replace dated but working components only when the new thing is truly finished and a worthy replacement. Branding and marketing is also all over the place. There's this new shiny flat design with plasma and Kubuntu and simular project, but the logos, icons and websites of some appstacks and toolkits go back to the year 2000.

Just compare these four websites to see what I mean. In my opinion that says everthing about the state of KDE and quite a few other software projects. Look at the Gnome disaster a few years back. A little marketing and brand management and all would have loved the new strategy. Gnome did a half-assed thing - at least that was the perception and perception is everything - and all hell broke lose and the Gnome project fragmented beyond repair. Mate, Cinamon, Evolution, Whatnot. ... That's a shame.

People are fed up of fussing about with new totally redone software packages that break existing workflows and intoduce new ones that are only half finished. Especially the FOSS experts.

KDE isn't dead, but if they are interested in gaining traction, they need to offer a compelling system and present it consistently. That doesn't even mean they need to develop much - a brand strategy and a working consistent and complete distro and the will to keep it easy to install and up and running would be enough. KDE is good enough to take it from there.

Bottom line: It's like I've said before - "It's called marketing." FOSS projects need to learn the neccessity of that, or else they will die of lack of attention, users and finally maintainers.

My 2 cents.

I don't want to spend ages configuring. Glitches included a list of problems I included in a previous thread. Sorry but it does NOT look slick at all, the graphics look dated. I used 3.5, then switched to xfce4, then to Gnome, then to KDE 4.0, then at 4.3 switched to Unity. If it wasn't for the spyware I would definitely be sticking to Unity, it looks very polished and is easy to use. I played with KDE at Christmas and tried shifting a guinea pig family member to it even, but ended up switching all the machines to Linux Mint. So far Mint looks like my target when I reformat, though it's not my ideal desktop.

I love the idea of KDE, it pleases me technically, but take at look at the screenshot (I would like to say screenshots but there is only one): the mess of Dolphin, the Windows95 task bar. Now compare it to Unity (amazing interactive demo, as well as slick looking desktop), or these themes for the still immature Cinnamon and compare it to kde-look.org.

I've written apps using QT, it's very nice. But as a desktop it's got a hell of a long way to go.

Phillip.

That is like saying canvas and paint is ugly. If your KDE desktop is ugly, it is a reflection on you, not KDE. See also.

There were several plasmoids that allowed you to replicate Windows 7 taskbar functionality in KDE, and they've been available for years. I used this one back in 2009.

http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/STasks?content=99739

I think the current version is here.

http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/?content=148813

General lack of polish. This is my #1 complaint about KDE, and it's everywhere.

Personally, I disagree that's it's everywhere. Yes, it's here and there and usually in applications that are either very new (=incomplete in general) or remnants of KDE3. But there is an initiative that works on ironing them out:
http://www.sharpley.org.uk/blog/extra-mile-1

Crashiness. Sometimes, daemons decide to crash randomly. Occasionally, the compositor goes crazy and locks up the entire desktop.

Never experienced that (openSUSE with official NVidia drivers here). Either these are those infamous (K)ubuntu-specific bugs or they are related to the GPU driver.

- Insane defaults. Preferences are nice, but they need to be set to reasonable values by default. For example, there are *way* too many global key bindings by default, the eye candy is set to an annoyingly high level by default, single-click select in file dialogs contradicts every other desktop, the default panel is huge, and a whole ton of other things.

Global key shortcuts may be a case for Extra Mile. The others are things the distributor should decide for his user base.

- No good system monitor widget. GNOME 2.x had an awesome panel widget that would display CPU, network, and memory; it even displayed I/O wait CPU time in a different color, which was awesome.

There are several 3rd party ones available. No idea how good they are because system monitors are useless bling for teenage boys IMO.

- The cashew. It makes no sense, and you can't get rid of it.

It makes sense and you can remove it. One of Plasma's goals is not to rely on right clicks which is why common users should not be able to completely break their desktop. It's not a GNOME-like "Settings confuse users" thing but imagine a user who uses a touchscreen and first turns off the cashew and then accidentally removes the task bar. Without the ability to right click the desktop would be completely broken until a mouse is attached.

As for removing it: It's possible and has always been possible. Technically the cashew is just another Plasma widget. Personally I just move it behind a panel but there are tools to regulate the cashew's opacity or even remove it completely, eg http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Py-Cashew?content=147892

I like the new flat and clean window borders. But they didn't update the icons. They're the curved and glossy ones, with drop shadows, from Windows 7. So, it all clashes. It would look ten times better if they updated the icons to something like the KDE Reinhardt icon set (which also happens to be my favorite set ever).

I can design a new GUI for you.... Here http://kde-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/114078-1.jpg

Oh, sorry, that was just few years old (Oct 20 2009) so it isn't modern anymore, we need COLORS!

Every Little thing!

Why? Why do you hate the cashew? I'm not asking as someone who thinks it's awesome or anything.... it's just that I simply don't even notice it. It's stuck up in the top right corner, and I never see it. If it stays there or is removed is of no consequence to me... and I've yet to see anyone be able to articulate why they hate it so much. So many people list it as the sole reason they hate KDE4.... which makes no sense to me.

But... the beauty of Linux is this: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Stealth+Cashew?content=108460 and this: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Py-Cashew?content=147892

Problem solved?

Why? Why do you hate the cashew? I'm not asking as someone who thinks it's awesome or anything.... it's just that I simply don't even notice it. It's stuck up in the top right corner, and I never see it. If it stays there or is removed is of no consequence to me... and I've yet to see anyone be able to articulate why they hate it so much. So many people list it as the sole reason they hate KDE4.... which makes no sense to me.

But... the beauty of Linux is this: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Stealth+Cashew?content=108460 and this: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Py-Cashew?content=147892

Problem solved?

Well, I've had no luck in getting anything like that. So I just tried that (though I'm sure I tried it before), and all that does is completely get rid of the dialog all-together.

Duh, you obviously have to log off and on again to fully apply that setting.

It's just irritating when every new release seems to break the things that worked so well in the previous release

The only broken thing is your brain.
If you'd ever executed Dolphin in another DE, you'd know that the progress window in there and never was gone.
So your tiny, broken brain might be irritated by the fact that at one point KDE started to utilize dbus to allow for a wide range of progress indicators, including the traditional clunky window, the smooth default Plasma version, or even 3rd party implementations like http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/SmartNotify+(unobtrusive+notifications)?content=133472

Oh btw: I would've used another tone but you decided to always blame someone else first ("they" do dumb things, "they" break stuff,...) when the only one to blame is yourself. Next time simply ask on http://forum.kde.org/ first before blaming someone just because you can't find a setting.

Many people have suggested what you just have. It's never worked before and there's no reason to think it will work now.

Your statement about running KDE apps on GNOME and vice-versa does puzzle me though. Right now I've got a complete mix of KDE/Qt and GNOME/GTK+ applications running on my KDE 4.6 desktop, and all is well. They may be using slightly more resources than strictly necessary, but I don't really care about that. Stuff like the Portland Project and the Tango Desktop Project seem to have done their work in making applications both function correctly and look right on my desktop, and Oxygen-Gtk is taking that even further by making GTK+ apps look nearly indistinguishable from Qt apps. Probably best to ask someone else what's going on with the GNOME/Xfce side though.

I really don't think a merger is possible or necessary, what is necessary is more communication and cooperation between developers of various desktop environments, and in the five years I've been using Linux (sorry, GNU/Linux, I am a Debianite now...) I've seen massive strides in this. I can comfortably use whatever applications seem best regardless of widget toolkit with no worries about whether it will all function correctly, and that's good enough for me.

There's a plasmoid: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=115943

I installed the "I hate the cashew" plasmoid from kde-look to remove that useless little nut.

Mmm Kay

Just install I HATE the Cashew. That way, you aren't annoyed while waiting for an actual fix. It's available from the Fedora repos, not sure about other distros.

People still confuse the X11-desktop with Windows. They also confuse Compiz with MacOS. Maybe the strategy is to make sure that the desktop colours are distinctly different from the colour schemes used by the proprietary operating systems. If you choose one of the most popular themes onGNOME-look or KDE-look you will likely wind up with something that very much resembles Windows or MacOS.

There are plenty of color schemes you can download. http://gnome-look.org/ http://www.kde-look.org/

Really any of the most popular distros on distrowatch.org should work as long as they come with a GUI. KDE by default is oriented in a way similar to windows, and other DE's like Xfce or Gnome can be configured that way with very minimal effort. Any of the *buntu's, mandriva, opensuse, fedora, linux mint, debian, centos, and simply mepis should be suitable for your purpose. I would recommend that you start them off with something that you are familiar with in case there are issues. (similar package manager/desktop environment/configuration files among other things).

If you are looking for themes they are all over the place.

http://art.gnome.org/themes
http://gnome-look.org/
http://kde-look.org/


I introduced my mom to Ubuntu 2 years ago and she has been using it since without any problems. I do upgrades for her (she doesn't seem to notice otherwise) and I helped her get Google Earth installed. And with SSH access I can help her if something goes wrong from miles away. My favorite part of setting it up was telling her it was all free. She couldn't believe me :)

You forgot:

Make GNOME look like KDE

The other way around is built into Qt4 (Gtk theme).

remove the $%*@%&#% cashew from the desktop.

Hah. It just so happens that the only package in Fedora's repos with "hate" in its name, does just that, so install it (and then add the applet) if you prefer an absolutely spotless desktop. Of course, it'd be nice to be able to more simply disable it without using a workaround package.

$ yum info \*hate\*
Loaded plugins: changelog, fastestmirror, presto, refresh-packagekit, security
Installed Packages
Name : kde-plasma-ihatethecashew
Arch : x86_64
Version : 0.3
Release : 2.fc11
Size : 55 k
Repo : installed
Summary : Removes the KDE Plasma Cashew From the Corner of the Display
URL : http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/I+HATE+the+Cashew?content=91009
License : GPLv2
Description: Removes the KDE Plasma Cashew From the Corner of the Display.

http://www.gnome-look.org/

http://www.kde-look.org/

no matter what the ubuntu devs choose for the default theme, someone is going to be unhappy and that is why we have whole domains devoted to hosting various shiny things to put on your *nix box to customize to your liking.

I hate the cashew

Woah...it's pretty

Yes, because they did away with the well-established themeable, accelerated, accessible, translatable, Qt GUI Widgets, and based made up a new "plasmoid" system that's almost entirely incompatible with all that. It's pretty, but most of the features have been sacrificed for that, and it'll take AGES to get those features on a parallel, if they ever can.

?

Plasma is if anything more themeable than kicker and kdesktop were.

Plasma (especially in its KDE 4.0 and 4.1 incarnations) was short of the old kicker in features (although much better than the old kdesktop, even including SuperKaramba) I know there are still things that kicker did that Plasma can't (multiple panels stacking on an edge springs to mind) but featurewise it's mostly there now.

As far as widgets go, Plasma does use subclasses of Qt widgets, just like the rest of KDE. I wasn't aware that this is considered weird or out of place however. (To be pedantic, the widgets are subclasses of a QGraphicsView proxy widget and not direct QWidget subclasses e.g. Plasma::PushButton).

The translation system is KDE's not Qt's so that works fine in Plasma. To be honest accessibility support was never KDE's strong point so it could hardly be worse now. :(

http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/KDE+4.3+new+plasma-panel?content=96882

People can write their own widget theme engines; there are actually some pretty nice ones if you go to kde-look. You could argue there should be a better default, but there's actually a lot of people who like the default theme. Similarly, there's enough people who dislike the Mac and Windows guis that they theme it with third-party apps.

Comparing with the Mac is not really fair though. Apple spends a lot of money on UI design and not too many UI designers do open source work.

I guess I'll continue pimping my favorite theme here even though I posted it in another thread too (since you seem to genuinely want something like it). It's attractive and available uniformly for both major versions of both toolkits. Give it a try.

Probably hasn't happened because there are perfectly good options for a unified look already. For example, the most attractive widget theme I've found for ANY toolkit is available uniformly for them all:

QtCurve

Highly configurable and very attractive and professional looking. Install GTK1+2 and QT3+4 versions and everything looks the same regardless of what you're doing.

There is a similar thing, only other way around: GTK-Qt, in fact it's 5 years old.

It's good to have the option for letting Gtk users keep their look and feel with Qt options, but I wonder why it took this long?

Is it because there wasn't much interest in Qt-based apps until now? It would surprise me, given the popularity of Amarok, K3B and the like

This is supposed to be the one of the greatest advantages of open source; if you don't like the way people play, you can pick up the pieces and start your own game.

There are several docks for KDE.

http://xqde.xiaprojects.com/
http://www.xiaprojects.com/index.php?section=All&project=KXDocker
http://www.kiba-dock.org/
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=12097

I don't use a dock, but I believe XQDE is written in QT 4, and from the last I read, it is supposed to be leaner and faster than its KXDocker predecessor.

Personal preference more than anything. Ubuntu works for some but not for everyone. For me Ubuntu is too flaky and the community, while refreshing, can be about as stiff as any other out there. I'm not going to point fingers but some of the Ubuntu main contributors can be a little unpractical when solving problems. From my opinion, the community support I've encountered with fedora was almost non-existent or I was unaware of it completely. Their presence is a little more apparent now but like all communities they can be stiff.

I've kinda got stuck with Fedora and Red Hat. There were more RPMs that met my personal needs; driver support, development apps, etc. There has been more support for fedora/red hat apps without having to compile from source for as long as I can remember. deb systems can be hit and miss. I don't want to use some strangers compiled package. I would like to get packages from a reliable source. I don't want to compile packages every time there is an update. I don't want to watch RSS feeds to see when the updates are available. If I wanted to compile I would build from scratch. I'm not running my own distro here and to be honest it takes too much effort to do something like that. That's my argument for fedora.

For the CodecBuddy (Codeina Project Page), I'm disappointed. It's incomplete and its really called Codeina. The app doesn't do anything but inform the user of legal issues. It then redirects the user to a website to purchase from there. Codeina promises to install the codecs for you but in the end the user will have to do it manually. The app itself is hard to find but it's there. I haven't seen it popup on firstboot. I had to search for it in order to finally see what the whole hubbub was all about.

The whole respin is a good idea but falls apart when you attempt to use revisor. It's another incomplete project (ie.: current bug reports). I use kickstart with livecd-creator because they're stable and reliable. My biggest pet peeve with revisor is that you can only create livecd media. Installation respins fail regardless of architecture. Spinning a 64bit livecd from i386 desktop has been unavailable even though revisor provides options to do that type of task. Hopefully they fixed all of this with their last update from a few days back. I just don't have the time to check. It's a good idea but right now the command prompt app is the better choice.

With Ubuntu, the spins provided are based on either window managers or targets specific markets by generalizing what packages they might need. Respinning trims the fat from the bloat. Even then, Ubuntu has dependency hell written all over it (Ubuntu Desktop Package). I can't uninstall evolution without having to uninstall the majority of applications I need to have on my system. With Fedora and their respins I don't have to have it on my computer at all if I don't want it.

About the theme, it's alright but I still go to gnome-look.org/kde-look.org to get my themes. About PulseAudio: It runs. I still use jack, alsa, oss when it comes to running certain apps. It's seems like it might help with audio. I can't really tell, haven't had a problem with audio.

People complain a lot about RPM based systems. Apt is faster, that's a given. The Fedora team has improved yum quite a bit over the past couple of distros. Yum for FC6 was a pain and with SELinux, the whole update process was a bit of a chore. SELinux-corepolicies update pretty much fixes that problem. With Fedora it's always best to update from a terminal on firstboot. Just press ctrl+alt+f1, log into root, run "yum update" from there and it makes the process run much more smoothly. Afterwards, pup works great for updating the system. Yum is a lot faster than it used to be. On their site t

Nope, no checkboxes. But you can make your own Plasma theme by editing the rounded corners in the SVG. Should take about 30 secs. As for the widgetstyle, there already exist a few edgier KDE4 styles... Skulpture, Phase, Quarticurve.

Nope, no checkboxes. But you can make your own Plasma theme by editing the rounded corners in the SVG. Should take about 30 secs. As for the widgetstyle, there already exist a few edgier KDE4 styles... Skulpture, Phase, Quarticurve.

Nope, no checkboxes. But you can make your own Plasma theme by editing the rounded corners in the SVG. Should take about 30 secs. As for the widgetstyle, there already exist a few edgier KDE4 styles... Skulpture, Phase, Quarticurve.

No, nobody has stepped up to port Baghira to Qt 4. Its author has moved on to Bespin.

Which was discovered to NOT be a Mac, cuz he was running SOME DISTRO and modified it according to:

http://www.howtoforge.com/mac4lin_make_linux_look_like_a_mac_p6

which was found to really be based on:

http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Environment/KDE/KDM-Vista-like-Theme-25822.shtml

and

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=31585

http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?previe w=1&id=8692&file1=8692-1.jpg&file2=&file3=&name=Ba ghira&PHPSESSID=190e13d46625270a07281973752ad665

Both KDE and GNOME are fully theame-able so looks should be no problem at all.

Martin

PS: I like Mac style themes as they are available for KDE, GNOME, Firefox, Opera etc. pp creating an almost unified look.

Why clone a bad interface when you can clone a good one that many people would like to use?

Its been tried, tovarich, Red Flag Linux. But if you do package your own distro, I can suggest a great default wallpaper: Linux: Because Micro$oft is for Capitalists Running DOS. Or maybe one of these.

For those of you who would rather be hatin' on my man RMS, here is a nice MS-approved wanted poster.

Its been tried, tovarich, Red Flag Linux. But if you do package your own distro, I can suggest a great default wallpaper: Linux: Because Micro$oft is for Capitalists Running DOS. Or maybe one of these.

For those of you who would rather be hatin' on my man RMS, here is a nice MS-approved wanted poster.