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Linus Torvalds Tries KDE, Likes It So Far
sfcrazy writes "Linus Torvalds has never been a big fan of Gnome owing [to] its extreme simplicity. Even Gnome 3.x failed to impress the father of the Linux kernel. He has now given KDE a try after a long time. Linus using your software is double edged sword, especially if Linus doesn't like it — get ready for the harshest, yet the most honest and useful criticism. Interestingly, Linus has so far liked KDE, and for one simple reason: 'But ah, the ability to configure things. And I have wobbly windows again.' This should make KDE developers a bit happier." Evidently, Linus didn't get the message that desktop UIs for Linux don't matter any more, since he keeps acting like they do.
First sentence is fail...
On the Google+ thread there are some recommendations for Yakuake, which Linus might find useful since I'm sure he does quite a bit of work from the terminal.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
In other news Linus Torvalds tries crunchy peanut butter, and likes it so far.
All the desktop UI need to start focusing on what users need, not flashy features that aren't really useful.
Come on Slashdot...this is NOT News For Nerds...it's news about one nerd's semi random postings. Leave the poor man alone to his own random thoughts...Please!
...make submissions about RMS, then? Are we waiting for HURD to ride his every sentence?
It's kind of tough to find things you don't like about KDE. A couple of years ago, when GNOME was around 2.3 and KDE4 had just come out, I was upset with pretty much every WM/DE I came across, eventually settled on Fluxbox. KDE4 these days is very well rounded. It's still a little bloaty, but what isn't, honestly.
It beats Xfce, Fluxbox, GNOME, Unity, Enlightenment.. etc.
It seems like every other environment has decided that letting the user configure things how they want them to be is "too hard". Thus, they figure, it's better to remove every shred of choice. Because, you know, choice is hard and confusing.
KDE is one of the only environments left that doesn't treat its users like morons. It isn't a perfect piece of software, but it's one of the only remaining things that isn't after the "dumb everything down!!" mantra. The others: Windows, Gnome, Unity, OSX, IOS, Android, all seem to be chasing the other roads.
For that reason alone, I've found it worth giving them money, which you can do here: http://www.kde.org/community/donations/ - I've given them about euros 100 over the last year.
Disclaimer: I have no association with KDE except for being a user of their desktop environment.
I think we can all finally admit that GNOME 3 has become the most significant OSS project disaster to have ever occurred. It has been worse than the XFree86 licensing debacle. It is much worse than pre-EGCS GCC strife, or the Perl 6 inaction.
Never before have we seen an open source project drive away some of its most valuable users (including Linus) so quickly and so efficiently. It's like everything that possibly could have gone wrong with GNOME 3 did go excruciatingly wrong.
The user experience is absolutely terrible. GNOME Shell is universally hated. And even now, 1.5 years since GNOME 3 was first released, it isn't getting any better. In fact, it may be getting worse, as many developers and potential developers are now repulsed by it, and want nothing to do with it.
The rest of us who lead or are otherwise involved with OSS projects can learn a lot from the GNOME 3 disaster. They've made it very obvious what not to do. First of all, do not buy into hype. The hype around tablets, which are now obviously an outgoing fad, is the force behind many of the horrible UI decisions that were made. Second, don't be afraid to reject stupid UI ideas coming from failed "web designers". Third, at least have the courtesy of listening to what existing users are saying about your application or system. Fourth, don't shit down the throats of your existing users.
There absolutely no need for a GNOME 3-style debacle to take place. It can be easily avoided by just thinking a little bit, and acting sensibly. It worked well for KDE, XFCE, and the multitude of other open source desktop environment projects that are out there.
so far Xfce hits my sweet spot of the default behaves normally enough that I don't have to mess with it too much. it's very responsive too. the last 3 or 4 years was KDE->Gnome->KDE->Xfce
Linus could manage the Linux kernel's git repository from a Windows box. Would it really matter? No: What matters is that he could.
I bet gnome would say that after slipping from 1st to 3rd or 4th. Not that i really keep track of their fails anymore.
People need to know just how fucking horrible GNOME 3 is. People also need to know that there are alternatives. KDE is a good once, as Linus is finding out.
I think the revolution happening within the open source desktop environment space is massive news, and very worthy of Slashdot. Within the past year, we've seen GNOME go from being the most widely-used open source desktop to being utterly disgraced. Users are flocking to KDE, Xfce and other environments very rapidly.
It's not often that we see such a significant open source project die such a tragic death, but that's exactly what's happening to GNOME. It has been completely crushed, not by the efforts of outside forces, but merely by its own internal idiocy.
There are other projects facing a similar fate. Firefox is the obvious one. They're making exactly the same kind of mistakes that the GNOME project made. At least they have time to learn from what happened to GNOME. At least the Firefox developers still have a chance to turn their ship around, and return to offering software that users actually want to use.
The opinion piece (not to be confused with an article, let alone news), which makes such an entirely retarded non-argument (see bold part below), that it must be considered a fake/humor/Onion type thing, contains gems like:
Yeah, because the whole point of decoration, is to go whoring with it. It could not perhaps be, that normal people prefer to look at pretty things, and still rather look at ugly things, than staring at boring all day. And It's completely unthinkable, that other people are not completely insecure attention whores, who feel the sick need to decorate themselves to go whoring to other people. </sarcasm>
Bullshit. Linux always was laden with applications. They just didn't have a colory-clicky interface for the retards like him. They were made for people who could actually use a computer. Not for idiots who should not be allowed to use one, or a car or any kind of machinery really.
Yeah "web services" riiiiight. Not there being a bazillion applications for Linux, now with idiot-usable GUIs too. With enough deliberate wilful ignorance, it’s the clunky inconvenient featureless and slow mess that is "web services". Even though they are still pretty much meaningless. (If you use e.g. Google Docs instead of LibreOffice, you're officially insane.)
So...much...bullshit...! No argument to back it up even. Just a vague virtually meaningless statement about the most important UI element there is. He probably can't even tell when he uses a menu that doesn't look like on Windows 95 and doesn’t sit under the window title. What an idiot.
And here’s the kicker (his "conclusion"/"argument")
What the hell has any of that to do with Linux? Linux has nothing to do with touch. Nothing to do with bare-bones. And since when are there no menus or windows to resize?? Since NEVER!
Seriously... the above is really all he bases his claim on. That somehow in what can only be accounted to a grave hallucination, Linux has a extremely crippled and utterly retarded interface, and that that is exactly what people want.
Both of which being claims that couldn't be more detached from reality.
Seems that he doesn't even remotely comprehend Linux, and that the CLI, with text config files, scriptability and "everything is a file", is its strongest killer feature. (Despite Gnome and KDE actively trying to destroy the last one.)
Good job timothy. A grand piece of flying FUCK from you again. For supporting a obviously crazy person. What's next. You saying that "Evidently, X didn't get the message, that 'We're all going to die!'", because the crazy person from the street corner said that?
You're missing the point. This is important because Linus is expressing an idea that millions of other Linux users are thinking. Unlike him, they don't have a large audience, so their thoughts mostly go unnoticed. But these thoughts nevertheless have a huge impact on the entire Open Source ecosystem.
More and more people are realizing that GNOME is on its way out. Alternate desktops, like KDE and XFCE, are clearly the sensible way to go these days. Unlike GNOME, they don't treat their users like rubbish. They provide an enjoyable experience, without stupid UI shenanigans. Linus has come to realize this, as have millions of other Linux users.
Linus can probably get a pass on this, but every time I read an article about being able to "configure" your WM, I have to wonder what people _do_ with their computers... do you use it as a tool to launch a browser or two, open an editor, maybe write a document? or do you (seemingly) endlessly futz with window drag effects, scrollbar pixel width, which hotkey launches your audio player, etc? There's a point where it's just masturbating.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Don't judge the snarky posters, It has been rough for Gnome fans lately. Their hatred for the other teams is the only thing that keeps them going these days. Not too long ago the world was their oyster. Now they bitterly face a bleak world where they may have to concede a point or two.
Can anyone tell me who Brian Proffitt is, and why so much of his writing gets linked to from here? I mean, I know who Linus is. I know of the significant contributions he's made to open source software. It gives me a reason to respect what he's saying, even if I many not agree with it. But who is Brian Proffitt? What contribution has he made to open source software? What experience does he have that makes him an authority who should be listened to?
Comment the subject fail is.
Is not always correct.
"People" keep saying Google+ is a ghost town.
"People" keep saying Linus is doomed on the UI.
"People" kept saying Linux was too hard to use and would never make it outside the server room
Common for all is that they were mostly wrong.
You sir have never used a computer for serious work then! If desktop UI's are non-issue it is only because of how good they have become on getting out of the way, not because they are not-required.
I like the functionality of KDE, and I like the configurability, but it looks terrible. Nothing quite "fits". All the buttons look like they aren't placed/sized *quite* correctly, and the button labels look like they are just a *little* off-center.
Basically, all of the window decorations/elements aren't sized right. Still. That is apparently the "KDE look", but I can't stand it. And yes, I've tried to tweak it to my liking, but it's impossible.
By contrast, Gnome and Unity are very well put together. They look nice and clean.
I truly LIKE KDE! Why? Well... it's NOT that "radically different" than say, the Win9x style shell I've used on Windows for decades (and before that, OS/2's "Workplace Shell").
* Primarily a Windows user here since 1991 is why... "old habits"? Die HARD!
APK
P.S.=> Mr. T. obviously demonstrates "good taste", & "great minds think alike" (lol, preparing asbestos suit for the "flames" I'll get on THAT little last tidbit, I am sure)...
... apk
more accurate to say he liked the ability to configure every little thing, but has many gripes too about overall look & feel and defaults
I'd say his post overall is why many people still go to things like xfce4, mate, cinnamon, LXDE, etc.
I agree with Linus, I'm back to KDE after the Gnome2 to Gnome3 transisiton. While the default KDE settings may not be optimal, some distros (such as Mint) have chosen more sane defaults for THEIR implementation of KDE. I'd suggest that Linus try Mint 13 KDE, but since he probably knows how to tweak things to his liking he can use any distro he likes. I've also tried Kubuntu, but Mint is closer to my desired configuration out of the box.
Mmh. I agree, KDE is quite nice and customizable. XFCE is nice too, Unity is, etc. However the longstanding problem which seems not to go away, is the lack of general quality assurance. All of the DEs are full of little bugs here and there. Some button does nothing, some feature is not implemented, occasional crashes, settings that do not have an effect, little glitches, etc. Things like that. Maybe it requires a big company like Microsoft or Apple to get it right, but maybe also the OSS community could be arranged so that things like these could be improved. I think it's really important.
more accurate to say he liked the ability to configure every little thing, but has many gripes too about overall look & feel and defaults
I'd say his post overall is why many people still go to things like xfce4, mate, cinnamon, LXDE, etc.
IIRC Linus switched *from* XFCE.
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
But I like metroui, unity, and gnome 3(to some degree) which all three are about fast access to files and applications. The problem with windows 7 and kde start menu is that you waste your time navigating trying to find what you are looking for. Even in windows 7 i never used the menu i just pinned some apps on my taskbar and the rest on my rocketdock. in kde(dual monitor), i would just create a third taskbar with applications pinned on it and the bar placed at the top hidden. With windows 8 I could do the same, pin programs to taskbar or just re-arrange the metroui tiles the way I want for fast access. Hit windows key, fast scroll, find the icon and click. Unity is basically a windows taskbar or dock put on the side. But, the old gnome2 was actually a lot easier to navigate through than win7 and kde.
The kde menu system is a freaking confusing mess and it takes time to know where things are placed. But, it's pretty to look at same with windows 7. I think it's time for the old start button menu to die off already.
Linus using your software is double edged sword, especially if Linus doesn't like it — get ready for the harshest, yet the most honest and useful criticism.
Smooch Linus' ass much 'sfcrazy' ?
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Is there a point to this article. Isn't the point of Linux is that you can configure it how you wish. Aren't you supposed to choose or make a distribution you like? I thought that was the "Gift" and "Curse" of open source. Like it or lump it. .02
WTF is "wobbly windows" supposed to be? Useless eye-candy with no purpose?
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Dear KDE developers, please learn the lesson from Unity and Gnome 3 (and Windows 8). You will win, and win big, if you don't screw up. Keep your desktop environment the same and let people use it to get their work done. Don't change paradigms or get user interface designers involved. Just provide what you're already providing without radical changes. People are migrating off of these broken, unusable environments en masse.
When you drag windows around the desktop in KDE? IIRC, it's NOT by "default" but, there's an option to make them "wobble"...
It's pretty cool actually!
I first ran into it while I was in Europe 2010 on KUbuntu 10.04 on a laptop (I told myself I would run Linux just to see how FAR it's progressed since I last tried it, which was in 1998-1999 iirc, RedHat 6.x & before THAT? In 1994, using Slackware 1.02 - it's gotten WORLDS better!)
So - Is it for "productivity purposes"?? No, by no means - It's just "neat" looking!
* Even though I am PRIMARILY "the poster-child for 'Windows-fanboy'" on this forums, I had to admit I like KDE (have said it MANY times here in fact over the years) -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228683&cid=41864677
APK
P.S.=> You'd have to try it I suppose to see what it does...
... apk
switched? No, he is USING xfce. he posts "I'm trying out KDE after a long absense." that's called "giving it a whirl".
The summary is pretty wrong. From what I recall reading a year or so ago, Linus used to love Gnome 2. He switched to XFCE after Gnome 3 because it had a lot more of what he liked about Gnome 2 than Gnome 3 itself had. I remember this because I felt largely the same way, and am still using XFCE.
We should start giving OSS names like "Buttplug", "Golden Shower".
Next time a headline like this shows up, it will be priceless.
"Evidently, Linus didn't get the message that desktop UIs for Linux don't matter any more, since he keeps acting like they do."
Nonsense! The Linux desktop has become critical if we aren't to be stuck with the Apple/Windows turning our computers into a useless media-consumption device with a cell-phone interface? Some (few) of us actually do useful work on our computers.
This is getting out of control.
none
So, is there some problem with posting links to G+? I saw the comment, checked his posts and read his comments...then realized the article link pointed to someone's blog....why not go straight to the source?
AB HOC POSSUM VIDERE DOMUM TUUM
Is that Torvalds' new role?
blech
Gnome used to be a desktop solution of Linux. But like Hurd it never really "got it".
KDE was the first but since it, at the time, was closed source Gnome was created as an alternative, even if it ended up as 2nd rate citizen, always choking in the dust.
Gnome had it its purpose up until KDE went GPL, i.e. more than 10 years ago. Now it is time to move on, with KDE or xfce.
I never stopped using KDE from ver.1.something.
That was a neat troll! You did a very good job with the BSD is dying, even throwing in references to Netcraft for confirmation.
But I figured that -- you know, since people might otherwise make the mistake of believing you -- that we should clear up a few things:
1) FreeBSD is less widely used in some areas now not because it sucks more, but because Linux sucks less. Linux getting better is a good thing for all of us (BSD and Linux users alike.) And FreeBSD has never (AFAIK) been about a mad dash to get as much marketshare as possible -- so who cares how many machines it's installed on?
2) FreeBSD is workstation/server oriented. Suspend/hibernate support isn't crucial for these machines. Sorry. It's just not a high priority. FreeBSD doesn't prioritize supporting laptops, and AFAIK and as far as I've been using it (10+ years) never has. OSs have their specialties: FreeBSD is good on things like a high-end file server, Linux is a better choice for laptops. That's all there is to it, mate.
3) Interesting theory about Apple. They must be stingy though: I, and others, are still waiting for my MacBook! Perhaps we should e-mail Tim! What you were referencing is that Apple did exactly the sort of thing that RedHat's done: hired developers of a project to improve the aspects of the project that are important to them. Most of Apple's contributions have even made it back into the OSS world, despite the BSD license not forcing them to. (Take a look at Grand Central Dispatch sometime.)
4) We in the FreeBSD world don't see binary blobs as the great Satan that must be destroyed. Sorry. In fact, part of the reason that we spend so much time providing stable interfaces and working on backwards compatibility is it makes it less like that we'll alienate companies that might otherwise help us. NVIDIA's a good example. So they don't provide an open source driver. And? So what? They ship drivers that work, and they support new hardware very quickly.
5) HAL was deprecated in the Linux world because udev, DeviceKit, etc. looked sexier. FreeBSD uses HAL because it works, is well-documented, well-tested, and now well-understood. Sorry that we haven't adopted the API flavor-of-the-week, but the game's not always played that way.
I'm pleased that you like Linux. By all means, use it. Diversity is good. I'll continue to make sure that the software I write is portable to both the BSDs and Linux. But please don't try to spread FUD about other OSs, no matter how satisfying it may be to build yourself up by knocking others down.
The real litigious bastards...
Can we please stop getting articles about what UIs Linus prefers? I'm happy for him that he has found a UI that works for him, but his opinion on UI matters is totally irrelevant.
But there are things to improve:
1. I'd like a way to save my KDE configurations so that I don't have to redo them everytime I install a new KDE distro.
2. I still want to use be able to duplicte a file on the desktop by using ctrl+dragndrop... ctrl+C, ctrl+V works, so why not that?
3. some things were never well explained, like activities/nepomuk, so they never get used on a meaningful case.
4. the apps! KDE is a software compilation... Amarok got so complicated they invented Clementine. I just want to eparate what I like from what I don't.
5. more on apps: many are built with Gnome integration in mind (e.g.Firefox). Integration with KDE via oxygen works, but I'd like it to work even better. I had to ditch Mint because of that.
Anyway, I'm complaining but KDE is lightyears ahead of the rest, be it Mac, Gnome or that POS called WEight -- so thank you very much for all the great work, KDE dudes... you simply rule.
is like choosing to be kicked in the face instead of the balls.
its still a shit choice
I really can't stand Gnome, been using KDE for years
I've got better things to do tonight than die.
I assume you've never seen SVN, then.
I wonder whether 'lightweight' is an issue for Linus as well, and if it is, then he should try out Razorqt. Uses the same Qt libraries that KDE does, but lot less the footprint. If there are any KDE apps that he likes, chances are that it should work on Razorqt.
On a different note, what is Linus' take on Wayland?
Over which acronym based ui is the "best" one. I don't really work on linux at all. So a quick question. I would want an intuitive interface with some eye candy that I could hand over to my retired 60 year old mother-in-law to get her off windows xp. What desktop is the best for migrating a non-tech savvy windows user like her?
--------------
Because that's the UI you should be promoting for general desktop use. I don't even care if its technically the best one.
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41866737
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228787&cid=41866351
Linus is a good guy but come on. This is news?
So, Torvalds is a WIMP after all.
'When the Going gets Weird, the Weird turn Pro.' - Hunter S. Thompson
terminator is awfully tough to beat. You can split one fullscreen console into as many consoles as you need ;-)
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
I drove a Toyota Prius and mostly liked it compared to other dirt cheap wheels, except for where they put the speedometer. That one change alone would just about rule out the car for me (not that I am in the market at the moment).
These interface changes come down to companies being desperate to get new eyeballs on their product. If they don't change the UI, people for sure won't upgrade and for sure won't talk about their OS. Heated discussion is better than nothing, apparently.
To heck with interface change. Period. You can *add* an interface (Windows added to DOS, X added to a shell). You can design whatever putrid interface you want for a new ap, but once someone does you one-better in that new ap UI, keep close to the new defacto standard if you want me as a user..
Thank you for that, it gave me my first real laugh of the day. Just this morning I realised that I use no Microsoft products at all and haven't done so for ages and I've never noticed. Your joke and my laughter at it makes me realise that I haven't used Gnome at all this year and I've long stopped noticing its absence.
Gnome stopped be a point of disatisfaction for me and became a part of history about six months ago. It would take a massive reinvention and a reason from some other cause to ever get me to look at it again. Gnome has microsofted itself for me and while perhaps Wayland can help it, I doubt it. It's going down Nokia Alley on the greater stage too, becoming the bearded lady in the corner when it used to be centre stage.
I said - don't look Ethel!..., but it was too late..., she'd already looked.
It's still crashing on random sites for no apparent reason when other browsers load the same sites/pages without a problem. And the new recovery mechanism doesn't allow one to remove the last tab or last few tabs before restarting, when it was the last opened tab that crashed the browser. You can't remove the last tab either in the recovery dialogue box(es) or by editing a text file. So what happens? Every Konqueror window crashes, with all open tabs going down in the crash, then you try the recovery feature, and all the windows and tabs open up again until it reaches the web site/page that caused the crash, and the recovery crashes all the windows all over again.
Apparently, stopping the crashes is an insurmountable problem because the same shit has been happening with konqueror for at least the last ten years.
It's a fantastic swiss army knife for all the built in features (ftp, terminal, graphical scp, file browsing better than dolphin, etc. It makes a great browser as well because it's much lighter weight and less memory intensive than Firefox and the other built in features help web browsing as well. But there's also a lack of plug-in capability that Firefox has, the javascript control isn't as extensive as Firefox's noscript extension, cookie control is far better with konqueror than with Firefox and it's available extensions, and Firefox has a few other features that konqueror still doesn't have yet. But the crashes are beyond annoying, especially after all this time. Maybe the success of Firefox has discouraged development of konqueror, and if that's the case, that's too bad. Because if they would ever solve the crashing problem, build in a few features that Firefox has, and a few other minor improvements and konqueror would be the best browser available by far compared to anything else available.
Restarting browser windows and maybe tabs themselves in separate threads so that if the tab causing the crash crashes again, it won't take out the entire window, or all of the windows. Don't know if that's the solution, but the problem of starting a new window from an existing window, if the second window crashes, it takes out the first window also, that sounds like a thread or parent thread problem to my non-programming ears/eyes. I think that's the reason recovering from crashes with the DrKonqi dialogue box causes all the windows/tabs to re-crash is the same reason, they are all started on the same thread (?), so they all crash again.
I still want Directory Opus or its equal for KDE.
And not Crusader is not fucking close enough. Right Idea, but needs polish.
Quite some time ago the pathetic little excuse of a human was busted astroturfing articles in his own zine. It became public with quite a few examples pointed out, but he survived the scandal. He's probably been doing it ever since, but I guess he can afford to farm it out now to teams in countries where the labor cost is much lower. Once an astroturfer, always an astroturfer.
They recently forced us at work to upgrade from Ubuntu 10.04 to 12.04. We have our choice of desktop environments (Gnome 3, KDE 4, XFCE 4, Cinnamon, Unity).
I spend my day in a combination of Chrome, the terminal, and Eclipse.
I have determined that KDE is the least bad of all of these alternatives. There are actually things that I like about it, too.
Like:
- Konsole has a lot of nice features, such as activity notification on tabs in the background
- The volume buttons on my headset actually work (this was not the case for XFCE)
- Bluetooth actually works
- I can have a traditional taskbar
- You can turn off the more flashy desktop effects
- Built-in dark color theme for the Oxygen theme (large areas of white on my 30" monitor are distracting)
- I can apply the dark Qt/KDE theme to GTK+ applications, including Eclipse
Dislike:
- General lack of polish. This is my #1 complaint about KDE, and it's everywhere. The text on my window list buttons is too low, and on the clock it's too high. The "AM" or "PM" on the clock is cut off. Text on buttons has virtually zero top/bottom padding, which looks bad. UI elements are inconsistently aligned. UI strings are often awkwardly phrased.
- Verbosity. I don't need to be notified every time I plug in a USB device, every time the power state of my machine changes, every time the network status changes, every time a file operation completes, every time a daemon crashes, or every time the desktop indexer is done. You can disable pretty much all of these notifications, but to some degree it's like playing whac-a-mole.
- Crashiness. Sometimes, daemons decide to crash randomly. Occasionally, the compositor goes crazy and locks up the entire desktop.
- Insane defaults. Preferences are nice, but they need to be set to reasonable values by default. For example, there are *way* too many global key bindings by default, the eye candy is set to an annoyingly high level by default, single-click select in file dialogs contradicts every other desktop, the default panel is huge, and a whole ton of other things.
- No good system monitor widget. GNOME 2.x had an awesome panel widget that would display CPU, network, and memory; it even displayed I/O wait CPU time in a different color, which was awesome.
- The cashew. It makes no sense, and you can't get rid of it.
If I could have GNOME 2.x back, I would. But KDE 4.x is the best of the current bunch.
Linus is pissed of at Icaza for the controversy about binary compatibility.
I am not taking sides in either issue, but it is clear this explains Linus' comments.
I see KDE as a child climbing out of a mud puddle, covered from head to toe in mud with a huge grin on his face. Granted the child is older than he should be for this activity, he's got some retardation and is a bit behind where he should be, based on his age. But, despite his age inappropriate disheveled and scatter brained nature, he's very happy and others are happy to be around him.
I see Gnome as a steaming pile of crap, perfectly presented on a silver platter and offered up by my host. I don't want it but the host is quite insistent that I take a bite or the turd and is demanding that I will love it despite my protest.
A lot of you guys are missing the point. Linux only has a chance in the long term if it gets a portion of adoption by the masses. The masses are not interested in configuration, they do go by the first thing they see, and as distasteful as it is for us all, the Apple-esque Gnome look is what they seem to be happy with. If you enjoy configuration then you have the option of wiping gnome and installing KDE on almost any distro. Everyone is happy.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
One more point to add. For the common person, single click to run would be endgame in 5 minutes. It is just too bizarre.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Do you double click the button on your radial saw to turn it on? What about your toaster? Your coffee maker? Nope, they're all single click.
Single-click is just too normal for the crowd of morons that think computers are toys.
what distro does he use?
alive to the universe, dead to the world
Hey I can adapt to it fine but your comment suggests you did not read my original post. The masses don't want to adapt to anything.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
The cube and others: I tend to use LXDE when I run Knoppix (off usb-stick at school so that I can run a browser with plug-ins and settings I've already set and with the correct use noscript) but I always boot it up with no3d as a boot-option so that I don't have to bother with the Compiz Fusion 3-d rotating cube and animations. The desktop switcher works nicely and I don't need the visual eye-candy to tell me I'm whooshing left or right.
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I will admit to playing with it and putting the old sharks and whales in the center of the cube, trying the 3-gears in the cube, etc, but I got over it quiclky. But if you turn off Compiz and 3-d, then the desktop is super-responsive, even on the school computers with just 1GB of RAM. I've got a Debian setup at home (can't take the credit for picking it or setting it up, thanks Daddio) that uses KDE3.
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I've tried the early versions of KDE4 on Knoppix (use desktop=KDE as a bootup option) and it has the ugly windows style start box micro-menu with the macro-sized-icons that requires too much scrolling left/right/up/down to get anything done easily. You can also start knoppix with desktop=gnome to try it out, but I have'nt played with it as much. Too many variables. Not enough time. or even enough time to sleep (!)