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A Screenshot Review of KDE 4
billybob2 writes "PolishLinux.org has an extensive screenshot review and commentary on the development version of the Free and Open Source KDE desktop. Highlights include the ability to run any desktop applet prepared for Mac OS X inside Plasma, on-the-fly annotation and rating of files from within the Dolphin file manager. It also has an improved GUI for the Amarok music player, flexible 3D eye candy configuration in KWin, and improved support for both accessing digital cameras via the Solid hardware layer and the DigiKam photo manager."
KDE4 has been out since 1/11..
It's a smoldering ruin and not a single post.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
That is the oddest screenshot I have ever seen. Is the applet that it is running designed to fail to establish a database connection?
before any comments even
...from the first April 1st news post on Slashdot this year..
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22better+stability+and+performance%22+%2Bkde&btnG=Google+Search
But here's the coral cache link to save their server...
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
I hope PolishLinux.org has an extensive backup server, too. And a fire extinguisher or two.
My 0.02 cents
I've recently been able to do some widget development for OS X (nothing complex, just some HTML, JS, and AJAX calls). It's a neat little environment but the error reporting left a lot to be desired.
That said, I really appreciate the ability to open Dashboard widgets in KDE. The interface isn't that magical, and except for the ability to call native code shouldn't pose much of a problem for the developers. I was wondering if they were going to do something like this and I'm glad they have.
The little widget I developed could be used by users of one of our applications. I think a fair number of them would like it. For various reasons, 30% of the users of this application are using Macs, so that doesn't pose a problem. But when I pitched the idea (with a mostly complete widget) to my superiors they weren't that interested. I was basically told "that's quite neat, but it needs to work on Windows."
Ignoring my minor "let Mac users have something first" attitude, there is a very serious problem with providing the Widget on Windows. I can't (reasonably). I researched the options and here is what I found.
That list ignores whatever GNOME uses, and the 5-10 smaller engines that very few people use. Who knows how many people use Google Desktop or Yahoo! Widgets. None of the widgets developed on these systems works with any of the other system. Even if the widget is a simple as a "Hello, world" HTML file and image(s), the markup between Dashboard and Google is quite different. From the quick look I put into it, the same thing is true with Vista and Yahoo!. Google Desktop widgets can be loaded into the Dashboard, if you have Google Desktop installed on your Mac, because it performs some kind of translation.
So I can't develop a widget. The only user base I can promise is Vista. That's a big headache and only 2/3s the side of the Mac users we know of. Asking users to go install Google Desktop or Yahoo! Widgets just to be able to view our little widget is a little tough. Making the application native would take quite a bit of time. Integration for a custom Google homepage is probably the best option for us, but still not worth it due to the inability to predict the number of people who would actually use it.
So the project (which was just a side project of mine) is basically dead. Unless they decide that providing the widget to only Mac users (I find this very unlikely), the time isn't judged to be worth it (and I don't blame them). Until Vista takes over (probably by this time next year due to MS phasing out XP sales to OEMs) there are just too many widget engines. Targeting any decent sized group of users is nearly impossible. It's a quirk of our market that Macs have the market share they do.
This kind of consolidation is a very nice thing. As a KDE user, instantly getting so many widgets available (since outside of native code and possibly running shell commands, there shouldn't be porting) is a very nice thing.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
NYUD.net mirror (if it ever responds). By the way, I've seen screenshots of Amarok and it looks worse than Firefox 3's back/forward keyhole. Amarok has this big swooping curve in the menu bar like the old Quicktime app... but it's at the top of the screen and it looks completely out of place. Firefox 3 keyhole is another ugly default. I could never hit the back button in Firefox 1 or 2 but now with Firefox 3s extra 10 pixels the world it's so much easier... no more dead-ends on the web for me!
I don't know about KDE4 but the slashdotted tag [ http://linux.slashdot.org/tags/slashdotted ]tells us how many sites we hosed, how many nights worth of sysadmin sleep deprivation we caused - so far between May 07 and Mar 08 - the number is impressive 117. (I am sure some fellow /.er will go through the pain of actually counting all the links even if it was just to prove a AC wrong :) .
It's starting to look good. When is the release for users going to be available? I understand KDE4 has been released, but I've heard it's really only for developers. Is 4.1 supposed to be for users, or is that the beta-user build? Should I wait for 4.2, or is that KDE codespeak for "almost nearly ready for every-other-day use"? When is the final-final release going to be ready? How will I know?
KDE version numbering is confusing.
"Chances are you are an asshole and don't know it."
Oh, I know I am, and your sig suggests that you're an arrogant one as well.
Welcome to Slashdot brother...
When they heard Slashdot was using them as part of their annual April Fool's joke, they all committed mass suicide by jumping out of the basement window.
Yeah, my karma sucks....but so do the mods.
to us OS X users. A free OS with these abilities really begs that Linux be given another look by the general public for a main desktop (and with the announcement of Adobe coming to the Linux arena, this just emboldens it's abilities). Unfortunately, until audio/video and graphics apps become powerhouses on the Linux platform, I'm afraid OS X will remain my main OS of choice.
Never monkey with another monkey's monkey.
It's still way too unstable for me day to day, but it's tempting enough to keep trying anyway. 4.0.66 lasted a week before I fired it this morning. My main problems are with multi-head related (it really doesn't work very well from my and others experience, especially non-Xinerama multihead), but it keeps improving. Good work KDE Team
I like music
I see KDE as a very good, highly configurable and modern desktop environment but still wonder why it is not yet the desktop environment of choice for the "major" distros. Why? Is is because it is mainly European based and all the so called major distros are American based? I hope not.
The site seems to have recovered from the initial onslaught of /.ers now.
Some nice screenies - KDE4.x certainly looks good. However, perhaps I am one of a minority, but I prefer my computing power to be used for something other than eye candy. I don't run Compiz (well, maybe just to impress the odd Windows user!) and removed Dolphin and the searchy thing straight away on my KDE.
Cue the good old KDE vs Gnome arguments, with the XFCE/Fluxbox brigade picking away in the background any minute now. Wonder what those who are stuck with Windows only make of all this? Personally, I run KDE on my day to day machines, with XFCE and Fluxbox on a couple of other older boxes, plus of course a command line only server. We should be grateful that we have the choice in Linux to choose rather than argue which desktop environment is teh best!
Each has its advantages and disadvantages - try them all and pick which you prefer.
Awful UID - but I have been here ages...
Here is a mirror of the article containing the same images, but written in Polish: http://www.jarzebski.pl/read/kde-4-rev-790000.so
Maybe it's just me... but is anyone else really tired of the Fisher-Price trending in desktop operating systems.
It started with Windows XP, but it wasn't *too* bad... but then Gnome showed up with full blown Fisher-Pricey-ness. KDE has always been halfway there, and with KDE 4, it looks like they have completed their journey. OS/X showed up to the party with the Teddy Ruxpin of desktop graphics. A little more sophisticated, but still clearly for kids.
So, we have all the major operating systems/window managers fully in the Fisher-Price camp. Clearly this is what the consumer wants (or is it?) - but what I don't understand is why. Am I the only person who wants my OS Desktop to look "cool" and not "cute" right out of the box? I realize "cool" (and "cute") is subjective, but I think some themes that cater to both camps out of the box would be a welcome addition.
Now, I know Gnome does not have anything of which I speak, and KDE 3 does not. I don't know about OS/X, but I've never seen a "stock" theme for OS/X that looks like something a working person would use, just the Fisher-Price-esque desktop.
I realize there are third party applications and themes to correct this... but I have yet to find something I like; They always look like something a teenager designed or something a kid would use. I have absolutely no doubt something "cool" and "utilitarian" is out there, but I have yet to find it.
The whole point of my post, though, is why the Fisher-Price trend in Desktops? What is so appealing about making the desktop look like a toy?
Slackware proper only ships with KDE (and fluxbox, and XFCE, IIRC - they're in the 'extras' discs). You can get Gnome on Slackware via other projects, but Slackware doesn't support Gnome. So, that's one distro that is straight out of the box KDE. In fact, that's why KDE is my favorite desktop environment; Slackware was my first distro, and I just got used to it.
Although, I do appreciate Gnome for what it is, but it just doesn't feel as familiar as KDE. So, yeah, the main distros these days are debian derived and that's why Gnome is dominant, IMHO. Whatever a user is subjected to first, they'll find to be more comfortable with.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
As a long-time KDE fan, I have been waiting for what seems like forever for KDE 4. I've been using 3.5 every day, along with OS X Tiger/Leopard, for the last couple of years. I love the apps, I love the environment and, in general, KDE's sense of style. The beauty that is Oxygen has had me stoked since the first screenshots came out.
I've been trying to use it as my regular window manager since a repo became available to Kubuntu users. I have been fully prepared to sacrifice some functionality and applications to use the latest and greatest, but yet still can't use it on an everyday basis, by a long shot.
Besides just general bugginess, there are some issues with the user interface that need fixing ASAP. First and foremost is speed. KDE has always been snappy for me, even on PowerPC G3/G4 hardware. On my Dell Inspiron with a 1.83 GHz Core Duo, things take forever to launch. It feels like OS X Public Beta all over again to me, in terms of application launch speed. (KDE 3.5 is super snappy on this same box.)
Next on my hit list are the widgets. We need to be able to hide the widget launcher in the right hand corner of the desktop. I've always been able to keep a super-minimalist desktop with KDE, and this menu is nothing short of distracting. And why is the panel now a widget that can only accept other widgets (of which there are a very small amount)? Where are the great little applets and buttons from KDEs past? Why can't I add an application launcher icon to the panel, like in any other desktop environment out there? For that matter, can I even create a custom application launcher anywhere? Why can't the panel be made to be a custom size?
KDE 4 has the potential to be truly revolutionary, but at this point, it's all good looks and severely lacking in functionality. Here's hoping 4.1 will actually be where 4.0 should have been.
:q!
Since when did Mac OS and Windows have stuff like Sonnet, Strigi/Nepomuk, Solid, Plasma, Decibel, etc?
Oh wait, they didn't.
It really irks me when people look at a window decoration, and assume that fully encompasses the work of KDE 4.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Have a look at CDE. No further comment required.
Is it even usable yet?
Isn't KDE being ported to Windows?
Don't worry -- they're sour anyway.
you can go here . The original Blog in Polish that was translated... be nice to the server. maybe someone can mirror...
Who is the master of foxhounds, and who says the hunt has begun? -Pink Floyd
Run Debian and use the Window Maker desktop. It doesn't look or behave a blind thing like Windows. Perhaps as a consequence of this, it's blisteringly fast.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
i'm not a kde user but there seems to be a lot of excitement in their community... moving forward and building new desktop apps. Not sure whats happening to gnome... if the novell/decaza's are still mired in microsofts patent shadow or what, but it seems like its dying, thats just my impression. gnomedesktop.org is basically dead, press releases posted up once in a while for the sake of procedure but whatever. doesn't help that the developers in irc (irc.gnome.org) are combative with new users.. whatever.
I switched over from Suse to a Mac Mini, and have been there for over a year now. I have been eagerly waiting for KDE 4 to be released, having been stalking it since Nov, 2006. I have to say, I am sorely disappointed with it. I first started with Suse 10.3, and I used the 1-click install and it only installed about 30 percent of the files. After hours of tedious work, I finally got it working enough to the point where I decided it wasn't worth it. I then chose to go with Kubuntu, just to see if it was easier to install, and I ended up with the same result. In the end, after working hard to get KDE4 installed, I never got it to the point where I could settle in and use it regularly. I think it should still be KDE4beta. Has anyone else had anything similar? I can't wait until the day when you can download a simple install application (like .exe or .dmg) and have everything done for you. I think that is one of Linux's major weaknesses.
I know it's not a "true2 part of KDE and I hate to make another rant about this, but I've been unable to see anything but a horrific downturn in amarok, both in terms of usability and basic visual appeal and the developers are convinced their "content-centric" way of doing things is The Right Way. In my experience this translates to:
/.'ers spend staring at their music application (not counting pretty visuals like projectm)?
Making it look like superficiallyiTunes whilst continuting to ignore the ability to have the user decide where to put things like the playback controls and position slider
Seemingly ephemeral "content window" taking up greater than a third of the main app real estate so I can repeatedly read the wikipedia articles on my bands, or something. Why would I want to do this all the time? Oh right, because it's plasma
Aforementioned content window gets in the way of dragging things from the tree browser on the left to the playlist on the right
Playlist has been severely gimped compared to amarok 1.4 IMHO. Devs have been telling users like me that keep several thousand items in their playlist are stupid (the only valid reason I ever saw was because it increases startup time - something I'm not particularly worried about with my current amarok uptime being about fifteen days) whilst failing to provide me with a convenient way to listen to my music in the way I liked (generally on random/semi-random unless I want to listen to a particular album or artist, in which case I use the boolean filter)
Maybe I'm horrifically sad and very much music 1.0 or some such crap, but I use amarok because it makes managing and quickly picking out music from a massive collection really, really easy. Amarok 2 just seems to me to be a catalogue of style over usability and change for changes sake. Pretty much every criticism I've seen of the new UI on the blog from the very first mockups has been shouted down with either "these aren't even alpha yet, shut up, the final design will look nothing like this!", "you're wrong, this way is prettier", "we think it's more usable even if you don't, no we won't provide that as an option, it goes against our philosophy" or "can't change it now, we're too close to release". Seriously, how much time to
Since the site seems slashdotted, here's the latest dev image posted to the amarok blog: http://amarok.kde.org/blog/uploads/Newtheme.png
On a more KDE-centric level, I'm not enjoying the low-contrast Qt themes with the insistence of rounding every possible corner, and I've yet to come across any themes that give be the beautific simplicity of Plastik
The new XP-style kicker replacement is an absolute abomination to use. Too many clicks, practically impossible to browse the program hierarchies quickly. Everyone says "use the search!" - sorry, I shouldn't have to use the search function because you neglected basic functionality
Still doesn't like working across multiple monitors
Panel and window configuration options are still severely lacking
Seeming enforcement of "the desktop is the application!" metaphor with the proliferation of widgets replacing apps. The desktop, in my way of working at least, is visible for about three seconds after login until an app or five autostarts and covers it. Thanks to KDE's fantastic setup of multiple individually configurable panels and/or kb shortcuts I was able to do away with all of that tiresome minimising of windows. If you're going to make us use widgets, at least give us the option to make them use the window manager so they get an entry in the taskbar, please. The lets-have-windows-without-taskbar-entries philosophy is annoying enough on windows, as anyone who's spent time trying to find that security dialog box that took a minute or two to appear will testify
Speaking of the taskbar, the icons are still huge and it still doesn't play very nicely with having lots of windows open
Last time I checked, those somewhat confus
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
As a Windows gimp, I have been trying to install and use Linux for ten years. I always used KDE and it was always the same two things that killed it as an experience for me:
1. RPM (What is up with that, way to go to differentiate your product for Enterprise, make all software pretty much uninstallable and unmanageable)
2. KDE, I installed it each time, and each time, the desktop was great for a day, then slipped irreversibly into a quagmire of wierd bugs, or horrible configurations I couldn't rescue.
OK, I'm noob. But that's my point. Ever since I first installed Ubuntu a year ago, I have been thrilled by the stability of the Gnome Desktop, and the reliability of apt-get. There is no comparison.
I'm really stoked about what has happened with KDE4, but I'm also depressed, it's just more of the same, it's a UI that is virtually promising that it will be horribly unstable, on account of it's bleeding edge. I wish KDE would just get out of the marketplace altogether, and stop scaring people away from Linux, which is, from my experience, exactly what they have been doing for years now.
You may not agree with what I say, but you should fight to the death to allow me to say it, by modding me up.
I hate THAT!
Sorry, just had to vent. In my office the trash can is out of site but easily accessible. So should it be on my computer desktop.
On XP I just removed it totally from the desktop and get at it through explorer. I saw a mod that allowed it to live in the system tray which I think is a better solution. I understand that on my Mac that its a native part of how the UI operates but at least I can keep the whole bar down there off my screen or scale it so its not annoying.
Still... in real life we don't sit them on our desks.... maybe they should use the ashtray instead - because thats the only "trash" thing ever to sit on a desk
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I share your dislike for the Fisher-Price trend, but I am sure you can *fix* it in any Linux distro by tweaking the setup. But I am guessing it isn't as easy on Windows for most people, especially Vista. Unfortunately I am stuck with Vista, and have had to find a way, and I found a solution with LiteStep and Windowblinds (shareware, but there are alternatives). I kill DWM so it never runs, and use WindowBlinds to replace the oversized window borders with something tolerable.
:)
LiteStep replaces the Windows shell, and I have 4 virtual desktops that I can switch using ALT+1/2/3/4. I have Win+Tab switch to the last desktop, and only applications on each desktop appear in the taskbar and ALT+Tab. Clutter is gone, apps are placed nicely in their designated area, and switching to and fro has never been faster or easier. The WIN key calls the minimalist LiteStep menu, as does clicking the desktop.
Unfortunately it took me a lot of work to get all this in place (this setup is not out-of-the-box), and LiteStep is hard to grasp if you are not used to text files (ala dot files). But the fact that I was able to turn Vista into something I feel is both "cool" and "utilitarian" is quite amazing. The best thing about LiteStep is that it is highly customizable.
If you are stuck using Windows but want to get as far away from it as possible, LiteStep is definitely worth a look
There are several docks for KDE.
http://xqde.xiaprojects.com/
http://www.xiaprojects.com/index.php?section=All&project=KXDocker
http://www.kiba-dock.org/
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=12097
I don't use a dock, but I believe XQDE is written in QT 4, and from the last I read, it is supposed to be leaner and faster than its KXDocker predecessor.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Absolutely right. I came here to see if anyone was going to mention it. I have a long description of what's wrong with the new KDE 4 application launcher on my web site. I've told the maintainers, I've tried to bring it up on the KDE 4 HCI discussion mailing list. So far, I've heard absolutely no response.
I gather that the window is now resizeable, but the other basic design defects remain.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Run Debian and install a variety of window managers. Debian makes it easy enough to do.
http://penguinpetes.com/XWM_Guide/index.php?mode=Intro
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I'd give all of this added functionality up if they could just get KDE 4 to play nice with gtk apps, specifically Firefox, without me having to hunt around the web for some hack to get it to work. Themes are totally messed up, and fonts and toolbars are unreadable and can't be changed with the system setting tools available to KDE4.
Yes, I know - I'm lazy.
Hi I was just wondering whether KDE (or Linux in general) can do per-pixel alpha blending? Can you create transparent windows in KDE?
>>> It was just that KDE 4.0 was somewhat rushed (it probably should have been still beta, but at least this way it got lots of development attention).
...
...
Look I use KDE, it's been the default desktop environment for me since I started with Slackware about 9 years ago, I've tried Gnome (again recently), FVWM, TWM(!) and minimalist environs you get with the likes of blackbox. That's where I'm coming from
If I wanted to be tricked into using sub-standard software I'll buy a new computer with windows preloaded. Releasing KDE4 as a release and not a beta (or extended alpha) just makes it look like KDE sucks-teh-big-one. And to be honest I think, compared to KDE3 it seems like it does - but I'll wait for the 4.1 (which looks like it may actually work properly) and try again.
The kicker is two steps back in usability. Dolphin lacked all the options for displaying different file listings that I use in Konq
I do recording under Linux, and I like Ardour, et al better than I like anything else I've ever used. I haven't owned a Mac, though, and I've SEEN some stuff on Mac that I'd like to use. That being said, the Linux solutions lack a great deal of polish that most people would require, such as graphical plugins (which I think are on their way with LADSPA2; LADSPA being the equivalent to VST). The only thing keeping Ardour from being as flexible as these other applications, IMO, is MIDI support, which is also on its way.
Again, I really like the feel of Ardour over Protools or Nuendo3, but asking someone to go from Reason, a virtual rack (that actually LOOKS like a rack), to Pd, a sound processing application into which you can program anything (but only has visual representation of signal flow, IIRC), is a tough argument to make.
In any case, the decision between Windows and Linux as a recording environment is a no-brainer for ME. The audio subsystem in Windows is shit, Vista is shit, and Microsoft wants me to call and ask permission to upgrade my box. So *I* agree with you. But asking someone else whose brain works differently to make the leap may not be reasonable.
As for visual apps, I think the same applies, despite the amount of applications such as the GIMP, Cinelerra, etc. I would recommend trying Linux. If you have a Mac, Ardour has a native OS X installer, so try it out. Also, to check out the rest of these apps, try Fink (no 10.5 support). And if you decide to make the leap, UbuntuStudio is a great place to start for the uninitiated. It comes with a real-time kernel and system adjustments and a billion multimedia creation apps.
Please stop stalking me, bro.