Slashdot Mirror

According to the release plan on the KDE homepage, Beta 3 is due to be released today. Anyone know if this will actually happen today?

-Karl

According to the release plan on the KDE homepage, Beta 3 is due to be released today. Anyone know if this will actually happen today?

-Karl

Achtung is vaporware at this point. Linux is making very few inroads on the laptop. The most robust slide presentation software is MagicPoint. Another relatively stable piece of slide presentation software is Kpresenter . Staroffice is the only version to allow Powerpoint imports.

Of course, you could do all the slidemaking in postscript and use just about anything to present it.

The GNOME/KDE would be a good start.

Well, KDE's 1.x HTML widget has already been used in quite a few projects. The Gtk HTML widget used its code I know, and just a few days ago ViewML thing for embedded systems was announced. Of course, expect an even better HTML engine as KDE 2 comes rolling along.

Here's a post on a Debian mailing list in which RMS offers his view on linking apps to Qt. Basically he supports the view that GPL'd code like KDE, which is designed to link against a non-GPL should be considered to implicitly have permission to do so - and thus dosn't require any license modifications.

Now, there is still the issue of GPL'd code from outside sources, but this obviously removes 99% of the problem. So is Debian reconsidering, now that RMS has addressed their primary objection? Not really, as discussed in this kde-licensing thread.

Kylix is sure to unleash a flood of new GUI applications for Linux, as "anyone" will be able to build the GUIs, and many should be able to learn the Pascal language. Many traditional, popular Windows applications may be ported as well. All in all, Kylix will be great for Linux!
--

Look at the composition of the "KDE Free Qt Foundation": two Troll Tech employees and "two members of the KDE project". Even if the "two members of the KDE project" were completely independent, that would at best produce a tie.

Go read the KDE Free Qt Foundation document. It explicitly states that in case of a tie one of the KDE representatives will have a double vote.

I do not feel competent to comment on the rest of your post because I don't know enough of these matters. Your above inaccurate statement does not reassure me as to the validity or truthfulness of the rest of your post. I hope you'll follow my example in the future if faced with the same situation.

This site, for a certain well-known free-software desktop project, has the same problem - Another Damn Refresh.

Moderators, please forgive me for veering offtopic, but this lad needs to be enlightened.

There are several alternative browsers on the market. They're all maturing slowly and some have even got features that Exploder doesn't already, despite Micro$oft's corporate feature bloating.

Konquerer, part of the KDE Project, is another good example of an underdog browser that's starting to take hold in the market. It's support for standards which make a viable browser are almost unmatched at the moment (in the alternative browser market).

Xemacs has a Browser called W3. It supports the majority of standards that make a viable Browser, and is written in Elisp, thus compatible with the Xemacs editor.

Of course, we can't forget Mozilla. It's the open-source version of Netscape 5. Probably the best browser out at the moment aside from Exploder/Win32, it runs on many platforms and is the most likely browser to take over the Exploder market share. It already enjoys a large market share in the UNIX world, just under that of Netscape 4.x. This thing supports nearly everything, including Alpha channels. Watch out for it.

Moderators, please forgive me for veering offtopic, but this lad needs to be enlightened.

There are several alternative browsers on the market. They're all maturing slowly and some have even got features that Exploder doesn't already, despite Micro$oft's corporate feature bloating.

Konquerer, part of the KDE Project, is another good example of an underdog browser that's starting to take hold in the market. It's support for standards which make a viable browser are almost unmatched at the moment (in the alternative browser market).

Xemacs has a Browser called W3. It supports the majority of standards that make a viable Browser, and is written in Elisp, thus compatible with the Xemacs editor.

Of course, we can't forget Mozilla. It's the open-source version of Netscape 5. Probably the best browser out at the moment aside from Exploder/Win32, it runs on many platforms and is the most likely browser to take over the Exploder market share. It already enjoys a large market share in the UNIX world, just under that of Netscape 4.x. This thing supports nearly everything, including Alpha channels. Watch out for it.

I think you missed the point with the KDE Free Qt Foundation</a>. The KDE Qt Free Foundation sole purpose is to ensure that Qt stays free and actively developed. With this agreement, Troll must continue actively developing the free edition of the Qt library. If they stop developing Qt free edition (a new release in the period of 12 months) (for a reason such as as a takeover, bankruptcy, lost of interest, etc.) the rights of Qt Free Edition will completely be transfered over to the KDE Project, under the BSD license. Also, this group is prohbited from making the license stricter, they may only make it looser then the current form (QPL 1.0). Licenses for the QPL Free License are changed by the KDE Free QT Licensing Board -- which includes two key KDE core developers elected by the core KDE developers (Roberto Alsina, Matthias Hölzer) and two key QT members elected by the Qt General Assembly (Eirik Eng, Haavard Nord). Both are respected members of their groups, and are knowledgable about licensing.

<p>This provides the best for all interests, KDE gets an excellent, commerically developed and maintained free library to develop under for the KDE project, while Troll gets a library they can sell to commerical vendors who choose to develop properity software.

<p>Of course, this sentence from the press release sums it up the best: <i>The purpose of this foundation is to guarantee the availability of
Qt for free software development now and in the future."</i>

<p>I am currently using KDE 1.1.2/Qt 1.45, and I have to say it's nothing short then excellent. I've also tried KDE 2, it's coming along nicely. It's clear these developers enjoy what they are doing, do a good job and are knowledgable on what they are developing. Keep up the good work!

Go here for UFO - Unmaintained Free software and Open source projects. It's hosted by Bernhard Rosenkraenzer of Red Hat, who is also a contributor to the KDE project, which is the reason why /. ignores UFO (yes I'm joking).
--

Maybe just vapor, but who knows - a KDE based finance application was "announced".

----Message----

Look for a professional personal finance package to be previewed at Linux World in mid-August.

Shawn

I have had to put a great deal of research into this because I'm doing a project for a client right now that requires converting .DOC files to HTML and inserting them into a MySQL db. So far I've found plenty of worthy solutions for converting the text, but none of them will handle the linked TIFF graphics in the documents.

Here are a few of my bookmarks:

WVWare - GPL library for reading .doc files, used by AbiWord, currently incomplete

W3C's list of converters

HyperNews' list of converters - really old

Filtrix - Good commercial, closed-source converter, now available for Linux, great price, but doesn't handle linked TIFF files :P

InfoAccess - Makers of HTML Transit, the Cadillac of closed-source commercial document converters, also exorbitantly expensive ($5000+) and AFAIK not avail for Linux

KOffice (KDE2) filters page - not much here, but AFAIK they intend to ship with MS-Word import capabilities

So, is anyone aware of any open-source MS-Word filter projects that I don't know about? Especially one that recognizes/converts linked graphics contained in the document?

- phutureboy

Bad choice of words: "KDE admitted"

KDE is not a monolithic, hierarchial organisation with one voice. A glance at the Licensing discussions on kde-devel will show you that there are a multitude of opinions on the subject within the KDE project. A glance at the various licenses used by the applications (kdelibs is all LGPL, but the rest is mixed) will also show you that there is no consensus regarding licensing within KDE.

Some parts of the KDE community don't use the GPL, some use the GPL and apply the exemption, and yet others use the GPL and don't see the need for the exemption.

Oh, and that slashback you point to doesn't have any mention of what any KDE people say. It only has the commentary of someone who is clearly biased against KDE.

Get excited.

KOffice and GNOME Office are coming.

As far as Excel being "the best spreadsheet app of its type", have you really used Gnumeric? You probably should try it. I mean the latest versions, too- maybe if you're up to it, you can research Bonobo and/or KParts while you're at it, and get *really* excited. Or not.

Hey, think a little.

• Else you use native widget set, and then (if this is a cross platform thing) you have functions that merely call other functions. In extenso, you have much overhead.
• Else you use widget emulation, like in KDE with Qt, without uneeded overhead, but without widget set.
• Else you force everyone to use the same desktop, so that only one library is needed, as with Windows.

Sorry if none of these solutions are optimal. I think GUI emulation (like done by Qt) is the best, but it's only my very humble and personal opinion.

Have you ever heard of a thing known as "kernel" and that is needed by Lilo, Grub, Loadlin or whatever to boot a computer ? Btw, do you know what Linux really is ? A kernel. Just a kernel. What we call Linux is in fact the Linux kernel, plus the GNU tools, plus everything that you you want and can run on it, like KDE for example.

A word of advice: if you have enough room on your harddrive, let KDE and GNOME together. They can cohabit peacefully, and this way, if you want to use a KApplication under GNOME, or vice-versa, you can, because you have all required library.
Better to have something we don't need than to need something we don't have.

Here is the url with the full details

http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-devel&m=96022787902749 &w=2

1. First, while Bechly is FUD'ing away, the KDE developers have released a new KDE 2 beta. Try it out, report bugs, let them know what else you want.
2. There were people on kde-devel trying to take up the offer (gee you think it might take more than a couple of days?). You can read about it, and if you follow the thread, you'll see why a number of the developers don't give a damn.
3. I'm going home and working some more on the documentation for KHexEdit while Kleopatra compiles. If people want to use it, great! If not, I couldn't care less.

1. First, while Bechly is FUD'ing away, the KDE developers have released a new KDE 2 beta. Try it out, report bugs, let them know what else you want.
2. There were people on kde-devel trying to take up the offer (gee you think it might take more than a couple of days?). You can read about it, and if you follow the thread, you'll see why a number of the developers don't give a damn.
3. I'm going home and working some more on the documentation for KHexEdit while Kleopatra compiles. If people want to use it, great! If not, I couldn't care less.

If Qt had a BSD license, would there still be license incompatibility problems. I read on the KDE homepage about something called the Free QT Foundation, so that if TrollTech ever stopped developing a FreeQT then it is possible for QT to be released under the BSD license. If this were to happen, would that mean that magically KDE is suddenly in compliance with the GPL? Can someone please enlighten me on this issue?

Sorry, I forgot the URL: KDE Standards

YES, KDE developers are very grateful for Corel's input !
I can even prove it : I've digged up the best cvs comment about that: look at this one and this one.
The truth is not always well written in a nice article linked from Slashdot, it's sometimes hidden in CVS logs :-)

YES, KDE developers are very grateful for Corel's input !
I can even prove it : I've digged up the best cvs comment about that: look at this one and this one.
The truth is not always well written in a nice article linked from Slashdot, it's sometimes hidden in CVS logs :-)

However, here's something to think about: KDE 2 has a built-in office suite, and it is able to import MS Office documents. When KDE 2 is ready for release (probably later this year), it will represent a threat to Microsoft on the desktop to some degree, no doubt about it. It is super easy to use, and even uses some simplified terminology, for average Joes.

Now I realize that you're just trolling for Bill, but I hope others that begin to buy into your BS, will take a look at KDE 2, as it really makes Linux simple enough to use for just about anyone.

--

Sorry to say, but either you WANT it to be difficult, i.e. troll (though I don't think so really), or you construe things to be much more complicated than the really are.

Instructions for Downloading & Installing KMail

1. Direct your browser to http://www.kde.org
2. Click on the link Konfucius announcement below the heading KDE 2.0 Beta 1 Released
3. Click on the link ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/u nstable/distribution/tar/src or one of the mirror sites
4. Download kdelibs and kdenetwork (no need for kdebase
5. Figure you need Qt too (since it says so below the link!)
6. Direct your browser to http://www.trolltech.com
7. Unpack the tarballs and use ./configure && make && make install, maybe remove everything but kmail from kdenetwork before running configure.

Yes, the list is longer than for Mozilla. OTOH KDE IS much more than one app, it's an environment/application framework.

BTW: your comment about Qt needing to be "linked" certainly doesn't hold true for Qt-2.1.1, maybe you are confusing it with some earlier version?

Sorry to say, but either you WANT it to be difficult, i.e. troll (though I don't think so really), or you construe things to be much more complicated than the really are.

Instructions for Downloading & Installing KMail

1. Direct your browser to http://www.kde.org
2. Click on the link Konfucius announcement below the heading KDE 2.0 Beta 1 Released
3. Click on the link ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/u nstable/distribution/tar/src or one of the mirror sites
4. Download kdelibs and kdenetwork (no need for kdebase
5. Figure you need Qt too (since it says so below the link!)
6. Direct your browser to http://www.trolltech.com
7. Unpack the tarballs and use ./configure && make && make install, maybe remove everything but kmail from kdenetwork before running configure.

Yes, the list is longer than for Mozilla. OTOH KDE IS much more than one app, it's an environment/application framework.

BTW: your comment about Qt needing to be "linked" certainly doesn't hold true for Qt-2.1.1, maybe you are confusing it with some earlier version?

Sorry to say, but either you WANT it to be difficult, i.e. troll (though I don't think so really), or you construe things to be much more complicated than the really are.

Instructions for Downloading & Installing KMail

1. Direct your browser to http://www.kde.org
2. Click on the link Konfucius announcement below the heading KDE 2.0 Beta 1 Released
3. Click on the link ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/u nstable/distribution/tar/src or one of the mirror sites
4. Download kdelibs and kdenetwork (no need for kdebase
5. Figure you need Qt too (since it says so below the link!)
6. Direct your browser to http://www.trolltech.com
7. Unpack the tarballs and use ./configure && make && make install, maybe remove everything but kmail from kdenetwork before running configure.

Yes, the list is longer than for Mozilla. OTOH KDE IS much more than one app, it's an environment/application framework.

BTW: your comment about Qt needing to be "linked" certainly doesn't hold true for Qt-2.1.1, maybe you are confusing it with some earlier version?

See this rebuttal

Günter Bechly posted links to the Debain side of the issue, here is a similar page written by the KDE people...

Did you have a look at the recent KDE 2.0 beta or a recent KDE 2.0 CVS snapshot? [If you haven't, download from kde.org or get Red Hat Linux binaries here]

Anyone who looks at it anywhere near objectively will notice that anyone who has used Windows can deal with it - the interfaces are similar, and as far as differences are concerned, KDE 2.0 wins in usability.

Something similar can be said about GNOME 1.2, which just needs some more time to get all the functionality implemented.

Red Hat Linux 7.0 will (probably) have an autologin feature for people who don't want to get used to the login process, and other distributions will probably follow.

KOffice (obviously) integrates perfectly with KDE - even StarOffice adds itself to the KDE menus so even the most stupid user can find it. Both of them can read M$-Office files, so converting old documents shouldn't be much of a problem.

I doubt a stupid user could tell the difference between a Windows system and a KDE 2 system that has been configured to look like Windows.

I agree about the "Code it. Use it. Debug it." part though - we need to demonstrate that we are not just a viable alternative, but the better one - if people don't care about reliablity, efficiency and speed, it's not as easy on the desktop as on servers...

Did you have a look at the recent KDE 2.0 beta or a recent KDE 2.0 CVS snapshot? [If you haven't, download from kde.org or get Red Hat Linux binaries here]

Anyone who looks at it anywhere near objectively will notice that anyone who has used Windows can deal with it - the interfaces are similar, and as far as differences are concerned, KDE 2.0 wins in usability.

Something similar can be said about GNOME 1.2, which just needs some more time to get all the functionality implemented.

Red Hat Linux 7.0 will (probably) have an autologin feature for people who don't want to get used to the login process, and other distributions will probably follow.

KOffice (obviously) integrates perfectly with KDE - even StarOffice adds itself to the KDE menus so even the most stupid user can find it. Both of them can read M$-Office files, so converting old documents shouldn't be much of a problem.

I doubt a stupid user could tell the difference between a Windows system and a KDE 2 system that has been configured to look like Windows.

I agree about the "Code it. Use it. Debug it." part though - we need to demonstrate that we are not just a viable alternative, but the better one - if people don't care about reliablity, efficiency and speed, it's not as easy on the desktop as on servers...

Technically it is not really Konqueror supporting https but rather the kio_https module of KDE's kio system. Every KDE application can do HTTPS.

By the way, Mozilla can do HTTPS as well with the right plugins. Both have Java, Javascript support, render fast and almost with full compliancy to the specs. Konqueror can even do Netscape plugins such as Flash, I'm not sure about Mozilla but I expect that it will since it is ment to replace Navigator sooner or later.

And if that's not enough, w3m (Lynx only better ;-) can do it as well!

Admitted, we don't have anything like MSDN yet - but that's changing... Stuff like developer.kde.org/ and developer.redhat.com isn't quite what it's supposed to be yet, but it's definitely getting there.

As for IDEs, maybe the proprietary ones suck - but did you check out KDevelop lately? While I personally still prefer the vi/make combination over any IDE, it should be easy enough for anyone to get started.

SIP is the IETF standard for signalling of VoIP calls (as well as other multimedia conferences). It is supported in products by 3Com, Nortel, Cisco, ... Very cool.

You can check it out in the kdenonbeta package of KDE 2.0.

SIP is the IETF standard for signalling of VoIP calls (as well as other multimedia conferences). It is supported in products by 3Com, Nortel, Cisco, ... Very cool.

You can check it out in the kdenonbeta package of KDE 2.0.

A couple of clarifications:

Cut and paste: Try selecting part of an image in xv and pasting it into composer. For that matter, it always takes me a couple of tries to paste text from xenon into a Qt-based application. MacOS cut and paste is like standard input/output in Unix -- the system is built around it so it always works the way it should. To me, that makes up for having to do more than a mouse click to paste text. (I never understand why X users find Cmd-C so difficult but think Emacs is straightforward. Although my girlfriend complains that dragging a folder to the Stuffit icon is too complicated and wonders why it can't be something obvious like tar -cvf directory.tar directory; gzip directory.tar.)

Applications: My point wasn't that vi is better or worse than Quicken. (What would that even mean?) My point was that depending on what you're trying to do, one platform or the other might be a better fit. For those mentioning Gnucash or Gnumeric, two things. First, try the KOffice beta! If you haven't seen it, you'll be amazed. Try it, submit bug reports and feature requests. Second, I'm not saying that there are no desktop apps for Linux. I'm saying that if you're at all honest, you've got to admit that they're still not up to the quality of Office or Quicken.

This seems like two zealots largely ignorant of the other platform talking past each other. Here's my take:

Installation: Nothing is easier than the MacOS install. The only thing that comes close is installing Linux on Mac hardware. I've never tried Corel Linux so I'll assume that the installation is as easy as Rex says it is, when it works. But let's see it on the "486 'o' mystery" in my office. As CNet notes, if you're installing on a PC, Corel wins.

Interface: Becky hardly does the Mac justice here. I like KDE but the Mac blows it away. (Yes, you can buy a two, three or four button mouse. No, the flexibility of Mac cut n paste more than makes up for having to go to a menu or Cmd-C).

Applications: Well, do you want Quicken or vi? Word or LyX?

Hardware: I'm not sure what the editor's point is. Macs support most standard interfaces so you can get most any PC hardware to work. The only problem is when there's no driver. You can bet the Linux people will write one themselves before the Mac gets one.

Internet: They can't find anything to disagree about.

It seems to me this completely neglects Linux's strengths - vastly better performance and a CLI.

Emmett writes: It's really easy to say, 'Yeah, well, wait for Eazel,'

Well, easy but silly. You may as well say, "Wait for OS X." I guarantee the Mac will have friendly Unix before Linux becomes easy. And instead of vaporware, why not point to KDE betas available today?

The KDE project is working on a set of human interface guidelines, I think Windows has had some for quite a while.

The KDE user interface guidelines can be found here. They aren't quite as impressive or extensive as Apple's guidelines, but they are quite complete now, and are quite well designed (it's apparent that they have worked hard to weed out bad interfaces).

And yes, I have to agree that Apple seems to be putting way to many technologies on hold for too long. However by the time they are released, they are robust and well designed. My favorite example of this is Sherlock, while the interface was poorly designed, the searching is very speed, and the search through any text file on the drive quickly is definatly unique.

If you want to use the KDE applications, without the overhead and screen usage of the desktop, the KDE2 snapshots have been working great in WindowMaker.

Follow the directions for using KDE 1 and 2 together. Add the line:
source /opt/kde2/bin/kde2
to your Xsession or xinitrc or whatever before the line that starts WindowMaker.Add the line:
kdeinit +kded
to your autostart file, or:
kdeinit +kded +kdesktop
if you want desktop icons. This works with icewm, also, and probably with anything else.

My one gripe is that kdesktop covers the real root window, which negates the greatest strength of WindowMaker -- 4,752 different Laetitia Casta themes.

(my karma whoring for the day)
for the copy-paste disabled:
ftp://ftp.nebsllc.com/kde2
ftp://mandrakesoft.com/pub/molnarc
http://www.htw-dresden.de/~s2697
http://www.kde.org/mirrors.html

Source: ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable /distribution/
Rpms:ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unst able/distribution/rpm/

Better?

Source: ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable /distribution/
Rpms:ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unst able/distribution/rpm/

Better?

Everyone loves screen shots

The announcement/press release is here, source code here, and binary packages (only RH/Mandrake so far) here. The beta also includes KOffice. There will be two more betas before the final release in September.
--

The announcement/press release is here, source code here, and binary packages (only RH/Mandrake so far) here. The beta also includes KOffice. There will be two more betas before the final release in September.
--

The announcement/press release is here, source code here, and binary packages (only RH/Mandrake so far) here. The beta also includes KOffice. There will be two more betas before the final release in September.
--

The announcement/press release is here, source code here, and binary packages (only RH/Mandrake so far) here. The beta also includes KOffice. There will be two more betas before the final release in September.
--

Ummm yeah linkage seems to be wrong?? PrehapsMight be of interest?? I still prefer GNOME! (EVOLUTION YEAH!)