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Gnucash v1.4.0 Released
Ur@eus writes: "The Gnucash team has released the 1.4.0 version of their wonderful
Quicken-like personal finance manager. This is the first stable release since the move from Motif to GNOME.
You find Gnucash 1.4.0 at Gnucash.org" This plugs a major gaping hole in Linux software: I've been using gnucash for a year now, and it's made great leaps in terms of features and stability. It isn't quicken, but its close enough for most of us. If you're having problems with the main link, try this mirror.
Must be the same fellow doing the moderation... let me attempt to explain. That most recent post of mine was clearly off-topic, and should have been marked as such. This post, on the other hand, is clearly flamebait, goatfucker. Let's try to get it right this time.
What is this Quicken thing ?
And is Gnucash an extension to regular cash, only you can make copies and everyone can get rich quickly ?
Why couldn't you just hook up a perl/python script up that connects to your respective Internet bank site? Then you could run your transactions through that as if you had typed them on the web by hand. Just get GnuCash a API and build a template.
Yes, a networked, multiuser version is in the future, and Palm connectivity is important, and better on-line integration through OFX and QIF imports is on the way, but up until now we've been focusing on getting the single-user interface and the accounting infrastructure solid, and that's a pretty big problem. There are still a lot of features for the single user version that are important for even casual users, and those have fairly high priority.
Bill Gribble
They can't relax with their hamsters
One feature that GnuCash has is double-entry accounting. It takes longer to learn than Quicken's "Categories", but is far more powerful--and in fact is what professional accountants use.
Whereas Quicken is focussed more on where you keep your money, GnuCash is focussed more on where you use your money.
As an example: say you pay part of your college bills with a loan, part from a savings account, and part with a credit card. In Quicken, you would have to make a category for that, and then print a report to actually see how much you spent on your college bill. And it would be hard to see how much you have left to pay. Whereas with GnuCash, you would have a separate account for the loan, and could pay from many accounts, and see how much you still owe, etc...
Heh, you'd think Quicken of all things would be somewhat smart about importing QIF files. I loaded up some QIFs I downloaded from my bank back when the year was young. They have the dates as "mm/dd/00." What's Quicken 2000 do? Marks them as year 0 and sticks all of them at the top. A simple sed changes those to /2000, but it is still a hassle. At least with source, I could fix it myself. :)
Microsoft could take a page and name things w_something. It's better than reinventing every regular word to their own convoluted meaning. For many people, SQL is that Microsoft database thing, and Office is not a place to do business, but a means of running virii on your computer. Exploring is no longer something adventurers do, travelling to far off lands. Now it means to crash/reboot your computer. And we see what they are doing with their open specs for Kerberos. Open, unless you do anything with them. And the "industry-standard Kerberos" unless you want to use them with any other platform. I'll take a little unimaginative g* or k*, there are less disasterous repurcutions.
--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
In Tyler we TRUST !!
Why are BSD people always so damned uptight ?
How long ago? My understanding is that it (including non-duplication testing) now works fine.
And if you make a backup of your originals before trying it again, what's the harm? I've said "never again" to things and, a few years later, found myself to be missing out, as the things which had caused me to object had been fixed. Making the same mistake may not be wise.
Ahh. Yup, if you've got Quicken, no need bother with anything else.
And btw, I haven't said "never again" to Windows. I use it for games (though more than half my games run on *nix -- a good third are *nix-only) and testing (I sometimes end up having to port my stuff to Windows, or do some networking stuff which involves it).
And this recent experience with Windows is what keeps me convinced that I'm missing out on nothing but trouble. (eg. porting up MPPE to work w/ the 2.4 kernels, on Linux I can put a command in the kernel module to dump the negotiated keys to the syslog. If I could do that on the Windows box and compare 'em it would make debugging one heckuvalot simpler).
Posted by 11223:
It utilizes a virus approach - it simply ports itself to the penguin in question, and eats itself from the inside.
Posted by 11223:
No - I disagree. While I don't know what a 'teh shell' is, I can assure you that NetBSD stands out as a platform. While FreeBSD is the OS of choice for Proprietary Systems, NetBSD provides honest-to-goodness Open Source software on almost every platform - and we don't need to hide in Canada either.
Posted by 11223:
Here at NetBSD we've been alpha testing a new feature that does penguin-eating.
What's the point? If you're comparing what they tell you against what they tell you, you're not gonna find many errors.
The Debian project has maintained for a long time that the GPL does not give a third party permission to distribute binaries linked against Qt. KDE itself is owned by the various KDE authors who are very unlikely to sue people for distributing Qt-linked binaries. GnuCash is owned by the various GnuCash authors, who may be far less permissive in this regard.
People are free to distribute KDE/Qt front ends to GnuCash as source code, but I wouldn't want to be around to see the mess that would result from distributing binaries.
As usual KDE users can always just install the GNOME libraries and run GnuCash from within KDE right alongside all their other KDE programs. Free software is much more compatible in this regard than proprietary software ([cough] Internet Explorer [cough]).
Yes, the plan is to put it into the distribution. I'm not sure how soon that will be, though. It will probably be in our next set of new packages.
Peter
Any check printed by a consumer on a home PC is going to be spit out like this
Why do you say this? Is the tolerance of the positioning tighter than 1/300th of an inch? (I don't have the spec handy...)
Also, the absolute size of the characters and the spacing between them is more tightly controlled than the absolute position of the MICR line on the check, so errors introduced in the paper feed are less important, as long as the device can print with consistent accuracy...
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You can bet that I'll have disclaimers in the package. :)
This debate rages on Usenet every so often... the short answer is that the bank will accept & process almost anything, but they might charge you extra if their automated system can't handle it.
I've used VersaCheck without problems, but only for 3-4 checks per month.
I've heard that some banks use OCR anyway, instead of the magnetic reader.
---
Regardless of what applications you choose ( and in linux, you can choose ) to run, the underlying operating system is extremely robust. Linux is not and will never be a windows clone. It is a robust, well designed operating system.
The problem with Windows is certainly not the fault of the applications that run on it. I wouldn't complain if all of those apps ran on Linux. The main problem with Windows is that the core operating system itself is unreliable.
With KDE and GNOME, the desktop is almost as easy as Windows. Will there be a time when there's no distinction?
Well, hopefully, there'll be no difference between Linux and Windows in terms of ease of use. However, there will always be a key difference -- in Linux, you can choose. You can run KDE, or GNOME, or the bloat-whiners like yourself can even run TWM and use Xterms.
Linux could end up just like Windows
No, it couldn't unless someone sabotaged the kernel.
BTW, I could go on and on about how QT/KDE is really better designed than Win32, but that's another topic in itself.
So far in two years of working with Quicken Deluxe and Wells Fargo they have screwed up exactly 0 times. I checked my statements each month but have been doing electronic banking for those two years (more including the web interface) and not once hasn't everything come out as I remember it. In fact, it has reminded me of several things.
Recently I've taken to using PocketQuicken on my Palm and syncing with the desktop to keep my credit card transactions up to date as I've not yet been able to sign up with credit card companies that provide online syncing of accounts. No more bounced checks, no more wondering how much credit I have when I am out and about. That is the feature that GnuCash NEEDS to even be considered by me.
So far the bank errors have been more than offset by the convenience.
-- Grey d'Miyu, not just another pretty color.
I tried importing QIF files once. Duplicates of every single entry. Never again, EVER. Not even if I could script it (and I most likely could) would I try it again. It just is not reliable enough.
-- Grey d'Miyu, not just another pretty color.
Less than two years ago. As for never again, why import QIF files when I have the auto-update for quicken? Aren't you saying "never again" to windows and missing out now? The right tools for the job. My Linux box runs my services, my Windows box is games and Quicken. I'd love to have them all on the Linux box but until it catches up to where I am very comfortable in the way I do things (Esp. when it comes to Quicken/Wells Fargo/Palm) it is no skin off my back to have my finances on my game machine.
-- Grey d'Miyu, not just another pretty color.
Paycheck is deposited via electronic funds transfer from my employer.
Any (rare) paper checks I get are deposited and entered into the Palm while at the ATM.
Any charges on my cards (dinner, rare purchases, etc) are entered in the Palm as made.
I've not really looked at a paper receipt in years.
-- Grey d'Miyu, not just another pretty color.
With KDE and GNOME, the desktop is almost as easy as Windows.
And is this a problem? Is it any worse because it is esier to use? IMHO, KDE and GNOME are already bloated pieces of software You know, bloated, when referring to software has become, through annoyng repetition in otherwise sterile arguments, become a meaningless expression. And of course it has no intrinsic absolute value, but you already knew that. I mean, GNOME is more "bloated" than, say FVWM, but then again it aims to do a lot more than the latter.
Perhaps if you could expand a little bit more on how the proliferation of "Windows-type" (you might have meant GUI? User friendly?) apps will make Linux worse...
Information wants to be beer, or something like that.
That's what "Quicken" makes me think of. Highlander, the 'Quickening' (not the bad sequel but the idea from the original film). It (Quicken) doesn't seem like a good financial name at all. PC Teller would be better in my mind.
:)
Anyway, GNUcash sounded like eCash first time I saw it. "What?? An open source electronic currency?? What will those zealot freaks think of next? A non-profit government?"
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
The difference isn't going to be between the paper statement from the bank and the electronically imported statement, it's going to be between your ATM receipts and the information from the bank. Maybe I'm paranoid; but I don't trust either my memory of the transactions or the low-wage employees at the bank's office.
I've seen discussion of syncing Palm accounts with GnuCash on the mailing list recently, I don't know how far along they are.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
I was able to export QIF format from MS Money when I moved to GnuCash a few months ago. I had to select "Strict QIF compatibility". This was with MS Money 2.0a, YMMV.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Isn't Canada in America too?
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
Agreement with 90% of your comments, especially insuring high quality in software. The only area where we disagree (which is where I turn "zealot mode on"), is that closed proprietary programming has constraints that make it inherently more difficult to program well. 90% of the projects I have worked on that were based on open source code have succeeded, where the percentage of closed source projects is right about where the industry predicts it would be -- around 35%. By the way, my definition of "success" in software projects is "on time, on budget, feature definitions met, with low maintenance for the release."
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
I know of two.
I have not used either of them.
Oh well, maybe when 1.6.0 is out he can do it again ;)
This is a tad offtopic, but here goes.
:)
Should anyone be able to stick the letters GNU at the front of his software programme's name? It seems to me we should courteously leave it to the FSF to distinguish *their* software (or software recommended by them) with this Mark.
Maybe its just me, but if a piece of software like Gnucash has nothing to do with the FSF, it should be called Gplcash or something. (I realize the ability to say it like "new cash" would be lost
You know, the best thing about the various versions of MS Money are that they will synch with your brokerage / bank account. You can download you statements and clear them against you account within the program, make sure your balances are accurate, etc... Does anyone know if it is possible or could be implemented in Gnucash?
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
"...is that they know how to name their programs to make them attractive to the general public.
Why is this an advantage? There is a subset of people (call them "intelligent") that doesn't make snap judgements based on the name of something. So making a name change as you suggest will only increase marketshare among the non-intelligent. And who wants to support idiots when the fun part is creating code?
--
Compaq dropping MAILWorks?
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
If you don't like KDE or Gnome then don't use them. Some of us like a desktop enviroment like KDE or Gnome running on a more robust OS. I think that is one of the biggest advantages to Linux is the flexability of configuring the system to be what you want.
Terry
One of the things that bugs me about Quicken is the feature bloat. That, and the fact that the QIF format is so freakin' brain dead.
Of course, I was turned off by GnuCash because of the dependance on Motif and half a dozen obscure libraries.
I see the problem this way: commercial software caters to the lowest common denominator in order to sell the most units. Free software caters to the programmers' favorite toys (whether it be language / libraries / environment / etc.) in order to make it the most fun to write and use. The best software of either type finds a happy medium between these extremes.
MS actually tried to buy out Quicken back in 1995 or so, but it was nixed by the appropriate regulating authorities on antitrust grounds. They've since tried winning on their own product's merits, but without much success.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
So I would expect that in a few years, Intuit will be saying, "Well, it's not GNU Cash, but it's still pretty good, and if you buy it, we
make money because we're such nice people..."
What's so great about that scenario? The goal of open source is not to put commercial software out of business. It's to insure high quality in critical software.
I see the purpose of projects like this as knocking on the commercial developers heads and saying, "Hello! Anyone in there? There's a good market out here that you're going to completely miss." If Quicken had already been ported to Linux, then GnuCash wouldn't be very important at all. Quicken is not like a web browser or a word processor, where the file formats it uses determine what all the other software on all other OS's must conform too. QIF is simple anyways. Quicken does not hold the key to some important internet or multimedia protocol. It's just a program a lot of people use.
The important thing about GnuCash is that now more people can abandon Windows (or Mac) and move to Linux/BSD/anything that can binary emulate Linux.
There is no need for all software in the world to become open source. Open Source has its advantages, to be sure, but if a commercial product can maintain high-quality without it, then what's the problem?
I remember a story where a number of customers of some institution who were royally pissed off with said institution submitted cheques on a variety of non-paper formats including a toilet bowl and, IIRC, a cow (yes, a live cow). The institution in question had to accept them since they all had the correct information on them.
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
And here I thought Quicken was a dumb name all these years 8^) It never did imply anything to me...
I'll agree that GnuCash is a pretty lame name, but hey - programmers aren't usually marketing. That's who names the products...
at least it's better than OldCash...
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
[
I'm an M$ Money user. Great for what I've needed, and the CD came 'free' with a computer (well, my friend's system, but he uses Quicken, so never instlled this one). I've been using it for a couple years now, and don't want to switch over, but this is one of the last apps tying me to Windows (Eudora and games are the others)... It really does do a good job of stock + account tracking, especially with the automatic updates and tax information. GnuCash seems to only import Quicken files... anybody know if they are planning to import Money files also?
Of course, I use Quicken Turbo Tax on the Web for yearly taxes (free through my Mutual Fund...).
Oh well... (waiting for the day when my NT box can be another Linux or BSD box in my cluster...
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
At least KDE compiles on AIX with little effort. Window Maker is a beast...
KDE isn't really all that 'ugly', and you can customize it to be whatever you want. You don't have to have desktop icons, the panel, etc, etc, etc... it's pretty easy to do...
KWM is faster than WM on my system, too. I've got the space to spare - drives are cheap.
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
While I agree the "Quicken" name alone fails to instantly conjure images of simple personal money management, to me "PC Teller" is worse. The first thought that occurs to me upon seeing "PC Teller" is the slight-of-hand team comprised of one large guy who talks a lot and one small guy who doesn't talk at all. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't trust them with my money.
"Be Happy or Die." -- AoN
I've been using Versacheck with regular Canon ink, not MICR ink.
George
Will all banks accept checks with non-magnetic toner? (OCR capable) -- I bought a package by VersaCheck but am nervous about using it for the first time.
I've been using Versacheck with a laser printer and inkjet (Canon BJC-4300) for about a year, I ran out of checks one day and couldn't wait 2-3 weeks for new ones to arrive.
Unfortunately, every Versacheck printed check I've sent out has been accepted by my bank.
I do notice the occasional one get's misplaced in the statement, but the money still gets removed.
My bank is HSBC in upstate New York.
George
I've been using Versacheck for about a year, maybe 200 checks, and every one has been accepted and the money taken out of my account.
George
A quick web search turned up a source for MICR ink cartridges and toner. There must be several people competing in this market. I realize that most banks will process checks without the magnetic ink, but for those financial instituions that require it, this looks like solution.
I am amused by the idea of printing text with a combination of traditional black and magnetic ink. You can hide information in plain sight. Largely useless, I admit, but fun.
Given one hour to live, the student replied: "I'd spend it with professor FP who can make an hour seem like a lifetime."
The names between Windows apps and their Linux counterparts are radically different. They are as poorly named(could we just have a few more apps that have X at the beginning) as console emulators(Nosefart being the worst)
Quicken's budgeting still pretty much sucks.
I've also noted that Intiut seems to be increasingly putting in bloat rather than new functionality. The last version had lots of graphical wing-dings, but no real improvements in usefull functionality.
Unfortunately, until Gnucash can transparently talk to my bank, it'd be difficult to switch.
Quicken does keep track of acrrued interest, though. At least, it does for my loans... Admittedly, it can be a royal pain-in-the-ass to figure out.
The cake is a pie
That's exactly my experience upon first purchasing Quicken 1.0 for DOS back around 1990.
Good financial software is damn important.
Unfortunately, Quicken seems to be bloating rather than improving these days.
The cake is a pie
a "commercially-funded competitor" .. like maybe Micro$oft Money ???
. waterwingz
I use that shitty software, VersaCheck. I can't stand the damned thing. It has to be the worst piece of software that need to use. To think that I paid good money for it makes me even more furious.
If you need beta testers for this program, I'll gladly volunteer. I'll even write real checks to see if they clear the bank! :)
At work we use a special check printer for printing checks. This is a Lexmark laser printer with a modified cartridge that can print the Magnetic Image Character Recognition type on the bottom of the check. However, many newer banks may process these characters optically, so this special ink may not be needed.
Okay, thanks for the example. I don't use financial software, so I'm not aware of how these packages compare. Could anyone comment on the features offered by each of these? (Quicken vs. Money)
I vaguely recall MSFT Money being a more recent product than Quicken. So, how long did it take to catch up to the level of Quicken? Note, that this time should be from the time that MSFT started funding it, which may have actually been much earlier than when they first announced the product.
make world, not war
Because it is greek. Also I'm sure for Spanish "tekh" is easier than tecks (they would mix it up with "tesk" all the time).
For dutch (which I am) tekh sound easier too.
Btw in many languages (I don't know about english) gnome (including the g pronounced) is a normal word, not hard to pronounce at all. English has the tendency to simply drop "difficult" sounds in words (like the silent g at the beginning).
Commercial software is for 99% american. Public domain/GNU software much less. More "foreign" influence results in words that maybe stranger or more diffucult for americans, but not necessarily for others.
Gnucash isn't the only option, I've been using Moneydance for a while now, and am quite happy with it, it's a java app, and will run on many platforms, I heard the author is working on being able to download transactions, although I personally woulnd't use that feature, I've already caught my bank screw up once.
It's the 21st Century Do you know what your government is doing
Is there a chance that this will make it into Helix Code's Gnome distro? I have been using Helix's stuff for about 3 months and I love it. This would mean I can actually keep track of the money I spend on caffiene!
A closed mouth gathers no foot...
I work for a company that provides banking solutions to over 1,500 Financial Institutions. One of these solutions is On-line banking and bill pay. Customers can use either our own PC/Buisness Banking, Internet Banking, and Touch-tone Banking products or they can use Money 99 & 2000, or Quicken 2000 for the PC (MAC not supported since Quicken 2000 for the MAC doesn't support OFX, Intuit states that Quicken 2001 for the MAC will support OFX even though they promised us that Quicken 2000 for the MAC would). For those of you who don't know, before OFX (Open Financial Exchange) there was a protocal by the name of OFC (Open Financial Conectivity) that was being pushed by Microsoft. The OFC protocal was not sufficiant and so OFX was created.
OFX uses standard tags like in HTML for communication with the server. The problem for GNU Cash is that they will need to work closely with each bank they plan to support. They have to know what order data will be transfered and what type of data is being transfered. This is no easy task!! The company I work for works closely with Microsoft and Intuit to ensure proper operation of the products and that they support the banks that we offer this service to. Both Money and Quicken store setup info on their own servers for each bank, because each bank can customize their offerings. So even if OFX support is added to GnuCash, they will still need to work with the fi's to get them to support it.
Whithin the next couple of months I will be moving over to the development team and mabey I can have them to get in contact with the developers of GnuCash to have discussions about adding OFX services. It will be a long shot, since our company is pretty much Microsoft everything except we use Notes instead of Outlook!
We also provide stand alone Bill Pay for Money 2000. More info can be found at www.mibillpay.com
Vince
The majority of the fi's we support, offer on-line banking (getting your balances and account activity) free of charge. It is the Bill Pay portion that they charge for! Vince
Quicken is still the one app that ties me to Windows. I look at gnucash from time to time but the one feature that's really a time saver in Quicken is the ability to download your transactions AND pay bills. In one step I can download all my latest visa/mastercard/discover/back accounts/stock accounts/stock quotes and transactions.
Now I have no idea if this is some proprietary deal these company's have with Quicken (wouldn't be amazed if it were that way) but if not I'd LOVE to see that feature added! I wouldn't use quicken if I had to type in every transaction I made each day.. to me that seems like as much work as a paper/pen register.
Gnucash simply doesn't have all the features users are looking for
Neither does Quicken.
There were lots of things for which I still have to use a spreadsheet; Quicken doesn't do them for me. For instance, keeping track of accrued interest on loans where I'm payed ahead. I'd also like it to enter a scheduled transaction with an amount equal to the balance on my creditcard account as of the 20th of that month, but transactions can only haved fixed values in Quicken.
One reason that I'm thinking of changing to GnuCash is so that I can possibly add the features that I would like to have.
-Jeff Bell
It's the one gripe I have with PayMyBills.com - no downloading from within Quicken itself. I must take the extra steps of downloading the QIF from the website, and then launch Quicken, import the file, and merge it by hand to my checking account (duplicates seem to creep in every time I do this, maybe I'm doing something wrong, like forgetting the last period I downloaded from PMB)
My bank, credit cards, and brokerage accounts are updated in one step from within Quicken - download, import, merge is handled with no muss, no fuss. And I have yet to see any duplicates.
I know, I know, I'm too demanding. :) But thanks for pointing out the QIF import feature. I will give GNUcash a look-see.
Edith Keeler Must Die
The problem for GNU Cash is that they will need to work closely with each bank they plan to support. They have to know what order data will be transfered and what type of data is being transfered. This is no easy task!!
Ummm, excuse me, but it's early and I'm appearently an idiot. What's the point of using XML (the previous comment implied OFX used XML) if it's different for each bank? What's the point of having a standard if it's different for each bank?
// TODO: fix sig
But, the online banking option is the only reason I use Quicken. Otherwise, a simple program like Gnucash for balancing checkbooks would be fine. In fact, I can't stand the usual Windows bloatware that Quicken represents. Besides, my bank provided Quicken for free.
perl -e 'while (1) {next}'
There... 0% idle.
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A PC without windows is like chocolate cake with no mustard.
B: Why do you say this? Is the tolerance of the positioning tighter than 1/300th of an inch? (I don't have the spec handy...)
The tolerances are tight, but it'd be impossible to get them that tight. The reason consumer-printed checks will spit out is because the MICR lines aren't magnetic.
These days that may mean that they just dump into another system where they'll be OCRed, but a few years ago that wouldn't have been an option and it may not be now. While I know there are check reading systems out there that do imaging, the ones I know of are geared toward businesses rather than banks - I have no idea what the central banks use or how fast their technology changes.
fencepost
just a little off
I enter my own data, then check it against the monthly statement. This way, I can easily catch any discrepancies, as the account will not balance.
Seems to me that by just importing your financial institution's transaction record bypasses this [IMHO] essential step.
Gordon.
He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.
-- J.R.R. Tolkien
How the hell do you automatically associate a product known only as "Quicken" with something that has anything to do with money much less the spot-on "balancing one's books?" Without any mention of money in the title, I dare say you are good. Real good. Of course maybe you already know that Quicken is personal finance management software due to marketing and seeing the box. Only after that do you automatically associate Quicken as you do. I suspect that if Gnucash was to do the same (and I'd doubt they'd use a plain brown box) you'd be rescued from the horrible confusion that non-windows software continues to thrust upon you (oh wait, look at their homepage..."The GNU way to manage your money").
Now the name may not be "pretty" but if that's how you're picking your software you probably shouldn't be using Linux, or *BSD, or whatever the heck you're using that's not Windows (wow, does that name ring nicely in my ears...it's like my "Window" to the internet...). Now if only there was some software to speed up my connection...maybe this here "Quicken" package thingee will do the trick...
Maybe just vapor, but who knows - a KDE based finance application was "announced".
----Message----
Look for a professional personal finance package to be previewed at Linux World in mid-August.
Shawn
Windows
Gnome
KDE
But I do like the idea of using GNUCash. Will this work for window managers like Window Maker? Being required to install Gnome just to make this run seems like a waste. I left the Windows world because of bloat, and the last thing I want to do is install Gnome (or KDE, which is bloated _and_ ugly).
Flame away.
Something open source or GPL that could be integrated into online games (trade type games, or trade portions of simulated worlds) would be best.
There are doubtlessly a number of applications for something like this!
This is really very unfair. this is only version 1.4, it is still a very very young product. When given equal development time/energy, free software usually meet and surpasses the feature set of commercial apps (see bash vs. dos command shell for an example) and is in a completely separate realm in terms of stability. Give this project time to mature and you will be very nicely surprised.
- Josh "Yoshi" Steiner
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Xiphoid Process Records - http://xiphoidprocess.com
San Francisco based electronic music.
got drum'n'bass?
http://mp3.com/vitriolix
Windows Apps aren't necessarily named more appropriately than their Linux cousins. However, Windows Apps Developers usually have an easier time marketing their products. Quicken isn't the most obvious title for a finance application, but Intuit has put a lot of marketing effort into "branding", which they have largely been able to accomplish.
Unfortunately for the linux community those kinds of resources are few and far between (I wont get into whether or not this is a good thing). To make matters worse, the average linux user has to choose from a seemingly limitless expanse of applications for each and every computing need. While this in my mind isn't a bad thing in and of itself, the fact that many of these applications are often buried in obscurity by their relatively nondescript names makes things much worse.
BTW, While I don't think its the "flashiest" name for it. I think GnuCash is a fitting name for the program.
"The words of the prophets are written on the Slashdot walls."
So, now that everyone is making Windows-type applications or porting them right over, what's to keep Linux from becoming a Windows clone?
I know this is frequently mentioned, but it's very valid.
With KDE and GNOME, the desktop is almost as easy as Windows. Will there be a time when there's no distinction? IMHO, KDE and GNOME are already bloated pieces of software. I know Linux needs them for advancement into less-computer-literate groups, but there's a price to pay.
Linux could end up just like Windows (albeit cheaper).
Just offering a paranoid view,
--Pat
Ah, the lovely arrogance of the Slashdotter. This is a similar sentiment to "I don't need chrome on my desktop, just give me command lines" and "Don't make Linux easier! That will just let them in."
What this type of person doesn't realize is that appreciation of aesthetics (including naming aesthetics) is an important part of being human. If people like you ran the world, we'd all be living in gray concrete houses, completely modular. If you want a bigger house, just put two blocks together! Isn't that efficient? Two stories, just stack them up!
If you haven't figured it out by now (probable), intelligence is not a function of how austere a lifestyle you can stand.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
"Gah-nu" indeed. ... Gnome (aka Gah-nome)...
I'll admit up front that I've never heard RMS pronounce "Gnu," but it's my understanding of English that when a G is followed by an N, the G is silent, as in "gnat," or "gnarled." The only time I heard someone pronounce the G in "gnu" was Gary Gnu from "The Great Space Coaster," and I always thought it was a deliberate mispronunciation.
"Where no gah-nus is good gah-nus..."
So what is American exactly?
linux sure as hell isn't
Linux kernel = Finland
BSD kernel = Berkeley
What makes things like netbsd good is not the distribution, the distribution isn't important. BSD inherently has a better kernel. Long live America. (and the Regents of the University of California)
-f
Your logic is severely flawed, in fact you have no logical sense at all. What the hell does slashdot have to do with the GPL?
-f
I'm happy that they finally came out with a decent finace program for linux. I think that's the one area that microsoft had up on linux. --
You don't know what those machines are doing. They could be idle for weeks or months. The only way to judge and OS is to run one and know exactly what it is doing.
I don't suppose the 0% idle was enough to clue you in. Read the posted information before saying something about it.
I don't suppose NASA, NTT Labs, and KAME are actually _doing work_ with their boxen, are they?
http://www.netbsd.org/gallery/research.html
Who's talking smack again?
Hey, I never said how it got to 0% idle ;)
Yeah, idiots with tremendous uptime. Last I checked the number one machine was upfor over 1400 days, running NetBSD of course. Then again, you may prefer 3D acceleration performence to stability.
Sorry, my url didn't come out right. It is right here.
This jives with what I'd really like to see. A growing number of us are always connected to the net, even ahve our own servers. I'd like to see an personal finance app that stores all of its data on the web, and whose interface is HTML. I find it of little use to enter in all my finances and receiepts and then have all that data locked away in my home computer. It's important information that I'd like to be able to access as often as possible.
-Sorry - football in America or American football?
[ insert meme here ]
Moderator -bait
It is clearly not working.
Perhaps you are, in fact, just baiting yourself? :)
A passed master...
[ insert meme here ]
"it's" doesn't have to be short for "it is"
No. This is wrong. "It's" is always short for "it is". To show possession, the correct pronoun to use is "its".
For more correct apostrophe usage, see Bob's Guide to the Apostrophe, You Idiots (yes, that's the real title).
every time you correct a grammatical error a hamster dies.
Ha ha ha ha! Die, hamsters, die!!!
-----
The real meaning of the GNU GPL:
The real meaning of the GNU GPL:
"The Source will be with you... Always."
The G is supposed to be pronounced. Check out the explanation from the GNU Manifesto:
I assume that the main confusion that is supposed to be avoided is with the word "new", not with the animal. ("Have you heard of the new project?")
--
--
-- Slashdot sucks.
A lot of banks will accept checks written on the back of an envelope with magic marker, even, as long as all the requisite information is there.
Now, that being said, if it looks like an OCR-capable check, but it doesn't work in the OCR equipment, I don't know how they'd deal with that.
DNA just wants to be free...
The gnome version of GnuCash started out as "GnoCash" I believe... let's just say "GnuCash" is a step in the right direction. :)
---
Most people tend to then "if Quicken doesn't run thouse wine, then it won't run". That's not the case. Executor has been running Quicken for MacOS for many moons.
ARDI has beed selling their Linux version for $75 that INCLUDES the MacOS version of Quicken, and says if has full compatbility, with the execption of the online banking options.
No, I don't work for ARDI, or to tell the truth, own Executor. But if GNUCash doesn't quite float your boat, and are stuck in Windows for the sole fact of Quicken, this wouldn't be a bad program to try. And at only $75 including Quicken, not a bad deal. I just don't want to see people not use linux, because they don't know that Quicken will run in linux, and that's the only program that's keeping them in Windows.
Also on a site note, I do use GNUCash. It's served me well in managing what little money a lowly student can make =) I'd give GNUCash a try before you fork over the $75 to run Quicken though Executor.
Back when I was working my way through College as a retail clerk, I was told that the MICR #s used a special ink which made the numbers more visible to automated readers (i.e. the little box we fed the checks through for validation).
:)
How accurate is this? Is the ink really magnetic/metalized for this purpose? If so, it may be a significant problem to home users. If, OTOH the recognition is purely optical, nevermind.
In any case, thanks for your efforts. I hope the right people take notice and include it in Gnu$$.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
You don't know what those machines are doing. They could be idle for weeks or months. The only way to judge and OS is to run one and know exactly what it is doing.
Linux O Muerte!
Z'okay that it's not a clone of Quicken, because (--Open Source Zealot Mode On--) GNUCash comes with source code. Has the eyes of the world to search out bugs, suggest features, etc. Forkable at will. And the best reason to use it and help with the development process? The completed product(s) can't be closed and taken proprietary, so I can count on being able to have/fix the latest and greatest version(s) without the chains to corporate America.
So I would expect that in a few years, Intuit will be saying, "Well, it's not GNU Cash, but it's still pretty good, and if you buy it, we make money because we're such nice people..."
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
http://www.swig.org
/pub/g-wrap directory on the gnucash ftp server.
Also, you will need a program called "g-wrap". You can find it in the
Don't throw your computer out the window, throw the Windows out of your computer!
As I've been considering what it would take to make my parents move to linux, I've had to think of all the things they currently do with their desktop that they couldn't do with a linux system. One of the largest problems has always been Quicken. Wine has never been able to run it sufficiently. The last time I looked at gnucash it wasn't quite up to the job. I'm looking forward to seeing the new version.
Fortunately, I don't think many people rely on online-banking connections with Quicken but I suspect this will become more of a stumbling block as time goes on. It would be nice to have a linux app take care of this functionality as well.
Now... If I can only convince them that kmail (or something) is better than Eudora then I could administrate their machine from home rather than having to drive over there all the time.
The next site to slashdot will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and start slashdotting it early!
Try this some time:
Imagine you're basically lazy, not math-ooriented (English major), bad with money, and hate using MS Windows.
GnuCash changed my life.
I started keeping track of every single little thing I spent a few months ago with this software and finally, after 27 years of floundering and fearing my own finances, I have the money demon whipped. This is not merely good software, this is important software. Get it. Use it.
-- The Sage does nothing, and nothing is left undone. --Lao Tzu
I glanced at the web page, but couldn't see if they had these options.
George
I used to work for the CoreStates Bank PC banking department before they were bought by First Union. So I had to know both Quicken & Money from the inside-out. Unfortunately, that was over 2.5 years ago so I can't quite remember it all. But here are some basic similarities and differences:
Similarities:
Both of them let you create accounts, enter transactions, transfer funds and pay bills. Both of them let you set up various reports to track expenses and investments. Although the programs looked different, the functionality was pretty much the same and you could use either one comfortably given enough time.
Differences:
IMO Quicken is much easier to install and set up. Setting things up in Money (ie new accounts, internet connection) depends a lot upon using wizards even if you have enough experience to do something without them. Quicken uses some "step through" menus like wizards, but they're avoidable. Again, this is a personal preference.
The best thing about Quicken is that it doesn't delete your npclog, which is a text file that gets concatenated (by Quicken) with your upload/download data. If you understand the codes in the npclog (which aren't too tough to understand), you can see what payment/transfer instructions you sent out and what cleared check #'s and stuff you received. If there is a discrepancy between your records and the bank's records, the npclog can easily clear up who made the mistake. I once saved my mom $120 in erroneous overdraft charges by printing out the npclog and showing the local friendly banker how she transferred money before the cutoff time of 3pm even though the bank didn't recognize it in time.
Money (as of Money 98 anyway, but probably Money 2K, too) deletes your npclog after a short while. There is a trick to catch it before it gets deleted, but try explaining the procedure to "Joe AOL" to get him to send you a copy of it.
The only sucky thing about Quicken is that it prefers IE over Netscape for its internet functionality. It has something to do with using IE's DLLs. If it wasn't for Quicken, I wouldn't have IE installed.
So, to summarize....buy Quicken and fsck Micro$oft.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Anyway, suppose a commercially-funded competitor to Quicken formed today. Also suppose they had a team of software engineers as large as Quicken's, and they were working full time. The question is, how long would it take for them to produce a financial software package with stability, functionality, and usability mostly equivalent to Quicken's? Could they get their first version out within 6 months? A year? I'm not sure how long it would take, but I imagine that their first few product releases would be sub-par, and it would take time before they had a decent comparable product.
That said, we'll see how GNUcash and other free-software packages with direct closed-source commercial counterparts develop over time. It'll certainly be an interesting show.
make world, not war
The big question I have is how do you count how much money do you save by using OSS software instead of Microsoft software with Gnucash? ^_^
From http://www.gnucash.org/features.php3
"Intuit® Quicken® QIF files can be imported, and are automatically merged to eliminate duplicate transactions."
For those not familiar, QIF files are one of the choices for download of a month's worth of credit card transactions.
GNUCash is a great step for Linux in general. However, to call it 'Quicken Like' is like calling a moped 'Car Like'. Quicken is a fully matured program that manages many different function in financial tracking and planning. GNUCash is an account tracker.
Might be a problem, the name may trigger SPAM filters looking out for FreeCash offers.
Fight Spammers!
is that they know how to name their programs to make them attractive to the general public. For example, the name "Quicken" seems to imply that it will "Quicken" the process of balancing one's books--which it does, if you compare it to using a typewriter and a four-function calculator.
On the other hand, "Gnucash" has got to be one of the worst names, ever. When I saw the name, my first thought was "cash for Gnutella, because they're charging now," and I freaked out. Then I thought, "Well, maybe it's just a GNU thing that has something to do with making payments online." I had to actually read down to figure out that it was the GNU money-managing software--and I'm sure that anyone who saw it on the shelf (assuming it was packaged) would think "Cash for gnus?? Is this another stupid video game like 'Lemmings?'"
"Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he deems himself your master."
So true, and likewise, much of what goes into Linux isn't GNU either, it's bits and pieces of BSD that no one could create themselves. So whenever you look at your docs and see "(c) The regents of the university of california" remember, we were here first
-f
This seems to sum things up. For all the good that free software gives users, it so often falls short. Gnucash simply doesn't have all the features users are looking for. It does have many useful features, but before wide acceptance of software like this can occur, someone somewhere must have the proper motovation to make it "perfect". And this is where i believe it is nessary to have a "pay for play" segment in the software market. At this time, it appears that a pure freeware world simply can't work.
Kiss my shiny metal ass
You are absolutely right on this account. Perhaps "plugs a major gaping hole in GNU software..." would have been better way to put it. I personally use the Linux kernal myself, but if it can compile on one of the BSDs, then certainly it runs on more than just Linux.
I think that the reason why you see this Linux bias so often on Slashdot is pretty obvious and is actually understandable. GnuCash is, of course, GNU software and is governed by the GPL. Linux is also governed by the GPL. NetBSD is not, it is the BSD license. GNU is intended to be a *NIX replacement operating system/environment. Because of this, when a new piece of software or software version is released as part of the GNU project, it is going to be associated with a GNU operating system kernal (either Linux or HURD.)
I think you are going to have to get used to it... it's a Stallman thing.
Brought to you by Frobozz Magic Penguin Fodder.
I downloaded gnucash out of curiosity, and tried to compile. The configure script bombed out with a "Can't find Swig" error. I was thinking, "what the fsck is SWIG?!" I didn't notice anything on the Gnucash pages about needing this - it's something they should include.
I then went looking on Google, and found it. I thought I'd post a link for anyone who gets this error and, like me, had never heard of Swig before.
Further digging on the Gnucash site helped me find out that you don't really need Swig, and they might be changing the configure script so that it doesn't bomb if you don't have it.
Anyhow, here is the link to Swig
Don't throw your computer out the window, throw the Windows out of your computer!
Sorry for the rant, I'm still pissed off about the whole Bungie/Microsoft thing...
I use Macs for work, Linux for education, and Windows for cardplaying.
This is important because check readers aren't actually doing any kind of OCR - when they started using MICR lines OCR was a dream even on a very primitive level. The numbers (and the 4 special characters) look that way because when you run them past a reader the waveforms / signals they produce are very identifiable. Think of them as being an early version of a magnetic stripe, but non-writable.
Position is also very important - individuals don't see it, but for any business printing its own checks in any significant quantity it's critical that the position of every character in the MICR line be correct. If the positioning isn't correct, the (often poorly adjusted) readers at the central processing banks will spit it out as a damaged check, and it gets special handling. Consumers never really see this, but for businesses their bank can actually be charged for the extra processing, and they're willing to pass that charge along to the business printing unscannable checks.
Any check printed by a consumer on a home PC is going to be spit out like this, but I'm not sure the banks are set up to deal with extra fees for those - they probably have the cost of a certain percentage of checks being "damaged" factored into their fees. This is also the reason that they prefer that you not fold checks - folded checks are both less likely to read and more likely to jam in the readers.
fencepost
just a little off
Man, that's what those old money people call us entrepreneurs. They look down on us and call us gnucash. What snobs!
Eh...
Gnucash can read Quicken .QIF files. I have downloaded .QIF (both Quicken 98 and 99) from my banks website and Gnucash recognized it outright :-). Check it out.
I believe that it does have check printing (experimental at this point, requires gnome-print) but that's only for printing date, payee, and amount on a check that's already been printed - just like Quicken does.
:) I guess I need to have it checked by a bank, too. :)
I'm working on an app to print checks under Linux like VersaCheck ('cause they pissed me off with their shoddy software, and their subsequent "tech support".) I did a cleanroom implementation of the MICR font, and I just finished up a Postscript program that will print the checks... I want to wrap a command line and a GUI app around all this so you can choose check formats, different accounts, etc. It's not done yet, but it's not vaporware, either - I promise.
Also, I let the GnuCash guys know about what I'm working on so that they could incorporate it into GnuCash - haven't heard much back from them yet.
---
I enter my paper receipts into GnuCash by hand, and then reconcile the GnuCash record with the bank/CC statement every month. If you just download from your bank and import, you're taking their word for the transactions you made. Better to compare from two different sources to find any discrepancies.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
These words may be the sentiments of a heretic, but here goes...
The Gnucash program is good attempt to duplicate popular account management programs. But other than being free, what's the point? A more radical approach might has started by saying: most Linux users are connected to the network and like to be constantly plugged-in. Let's build a network friendly UI (say using Java), that users can connect from their Palm Pilots or via web browsers on the road. Let's build in data transfer from Nasdaq for stock and mutual fund tracking (there is development level support currently). And let's allow the program to periodically email reports. This said, I welcome the announcement of this version, and in particular the engine, as a good starting point.
The nice thing about open source is that it provides a road for us heretics to enter the mainstream. All it takes is a few late nights of hacking.
Given one hour to live, the student replied: "I'd spend it with professor FP who can make an hour seem like a lifetime."
As many have commented, the ability to over-the-net transactions is what keeps people using Quicken (tm) & Windoze. Quicken uses a protocol called OFX http://www.ofx.net . There may be some issues with incorporating this into GnuCash, They've been talking about it for a long time. BTW, it may already be in there, I've still got an old 1.3 version.
-- Rich
Free your mind and your Ass will follow -- George Clinton
No support for that, no sense in trying it out. I reordered my entire financial life around this feature. If it weren't for this, and for games, I'd be 100% non-Windows on my home PC.
Edith Keeler Must Die