Slashdot Mirror

http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/8#f9525592

* We've been in communication with CBS and they deny that they gave any third party any of our user data.

Also note that a lot of "user info" has always been available through feeds.

1) CBS has denied this yesterday:

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/05/26/lastfm-denies-data-sharing-accusations-again/

âoeBoth CBS and the RIAA have already stated quite clearly, for the record, that absolutely no individual user or listener information was supplied to the RIAA by Last.fm or any division of CBS Corporation in the past, nor do we plan to do so in the future. The story posted by the Web site was based on an unnamed tipster. No inquiry was made to CBS or Last.fm about the veracity of the anonymous source. Those who consult such blogs should be aware of the standard by which such postings are sourced and published.â

2) The RIAA denied it back when it was originally a story:

http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2009/02/riaa-denies-rumors-that-lastfm-turned-over-data.ars

The RIAA has finally chimed in as well, categorically denying that any such request was ever made. "[We're] not sure where that rumor came from," RIAA spokesperson Cara Duckworth told Ars on Saturday. "It's not true."

3) Last.fm has denied this:

"Nobody at Last.fm knows anything about such a leak. We didn't when they last wrote an article, and we don't now. Any suggestion that we were complicit in transferring user data to any third party is incorrect."

"...transferring personally identifiable data from the UK to the US is against data protection laws. We wouldn't risk a lawsuit to pander to the RIAA's requests."

http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/8#f9525592

"Last.fm has never given data linking IP addresses and scrobbles to any third party."

---------------

And 4) TechCrunch posts an article with anonymous sources claiming everything they say to be fact.

Every single party involved has denied it, all we have is the babblings of someone who has in the past been proven wrong on his attacks, and for some reason has a personal vendetta against last.fm.

To the people who were stupid enough to believe him, and deleted your accounts, good. You don't belong on the internet much less last.fm for believing everything you read as truth.

Er, my mistake, the link above leads to page five of the thread, while the rebuttal was on page 8. My point still stands.

Who do you trust more... Michael Arrington, or Russ Garrett?

Russ' rebuttal is here.

I don't personally know the folk involved, I'll assume that "Russ" is a Last.fm guy. Last.fm didn't know that the parent company, CBS, had sold them out to RIAA in contravention of the user agreement. If you read the TechCrunch info you'll note that a spokesman for CBS said that they didn't know the info was being passed on to the RIAA - then the spokesman called to say "that statement was on behalf of last.fm, not CBS". Dead giveaway.

Here's Russ's rebuttal from the link above. I'll bold the important parts.

For the benefit of TechCrunch, because apparently I didn't make things clear enough the first time.

* Nobody at Last.fm had any knowledge of our user data being fed to the RIAA (or any labels directly), before or after the alleged incident, or at any other point in the history of the company.

* Last.fm has never given data linking IP addresses and scrobbles to any third party.

* Last.fm has never given data linking IP addresses and scrobbles to CBS (who, by the way, we don't consider a third party, but who do have to uphold our privacy policy).

* We've been in communication with CBS and they deny that they gave any third party any of our user data.

If TechCrunch have any evidence which contradicts any of the statements I've made here, I'd love to see it, but I think someone is taking them for a ride. I'm not sure why, though.

I cancelled mine the day they posted this blog post stating that they are on the side of the collecting societies.

For me that was when I figured that the service was compromised and although it was fun to use it for a while it was not for me anymore.

Who do you trust more... Michael Arrington, or Russ Garrett?

Russ' rebuttal is here.

I don't personally know the folk involved, I'll assume that "Russ" is a Last.fm guy. Last.fm didn't know that the parent company, CBS, had sold them out to RIAA in contravention of the user agreement. If you read the TechCrunch info you'll note that a spokesman for CBS said that they didn't know the info was being passed on to the RIAA - then the spokesman called to say "that statement was on behalf of last.fm, not CBS". Dead giveaway.

Different reactions to criticism:
Techcrunch deletes:
http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/7#f9522786
Last.fm answers:
http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/9

Different reactions to criticism:
Techcrunch deletes:
http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/7#f9522786
Last.fm answers:
http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/9

"TechCrunch are full of shit"

http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit

Posted February 23rd. Get with the times, /.

Last.fm's main office is in London.

They're about to get crushed by the Data Protection Act, at the very least.

http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/_/9521312

Russ, a founder of last.fm and much more reliable than that National Enquirer-wannabe TechCrunch, has denied everything.

Showing nothing to hide, you'll see in that thread noone ever had a post deleted there, no matter how irate or against last.fm it was.

http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/_/9522388

Starting there, and continuing reading a couple pages, you'll see the truth about TechCrunch. Every message at TC in response that was against Michael Arrington's (shoddy) reporting has been summarily deleted. Several screenshots were even posted of people's responses that were deleted.

Now, who is more trustworthy again, a site that allows open discussion, or one that whittles down the discussion to make it look like everyone agrees with them?

Anyone believing this drivel... I got some 419 e-mails for you.

http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/_/9521312

Russ, a founder of last.fm and much more reliable than that National Enquirer-wannabe TechCrunch, has denied everything.

Showing nothing to hide, you'll see in that thread noone ever had a post deleted there, no matter how irate or against last.fm it was.

http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/_/9522388

Starting there, and continuing reading a couple pages, you'll see the truth about TechCrunch. Every message at TC in response that was against Michael Arrington's (shoddy) reporting has been summarily deleted. Several screenshots were even posted of people's responses that were deleted.

Now, who is more trustworthy again, a site that allows open discussion, or one that whittles down the discussion to make it look like everyone agrees with them?

Anyone believing this drivel... I got some 419 e-mails for you.

Comments expressing alternate points of view are seemingly disappearing from the TechCrunch discussion thread. If TC feels it's necessary to delete comments which critique their reporting, perhaps we should be taking a closer look at that reporting...

The official last.fm Scrobbler can fingerprint music. This feature analyzes the way the music sounds to help identify untagged and inaccurately tagged tracks. Presumably it only allows one to identify what music is in the file, not what file you have, so for example they shouldn't be able to tell the difference between an MP3 you ripped and encoded yourself and one that came from a release group.

Who do you trust more... Michael Arrington, or Russ Garrett?

Russ' rebuttal is here. He's no PR flack... he's one of the founders and one of the original developers of Audioscrobbler.

It's very interesting that so many Slashdotters are taking the Techcrunch report at face value. Given Mr. Arrington's history with regard to responsible journalism, I'm with Russ on this one.

Arrington has last.fm in his sights for some reason. Somebody pointed out that TechCrunch takes advertising money from a last.fm competitor. I don't think it's as simple as that, but Arrington has an agenda here, and I don't think it's the noble pursuit of truth.

With Techcrunch censoring the comments, I lost any faith I could have in this website. If they deal with constructive criticism by deleting and filtering the comments, how can they be trusted?

For those who want examples, check the related last.fm thread: http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/7#f9522786

Since following this story, I haven't seen any signs of last.fm censoring the discussions on their site.

It's in here: http://www.last.fm/legal/terms

I'm currently listening to a future Eminem track. I got it by running bittorrent through a time-machine. The evidence is plain for all to see (or my playedlist)

Good grief.

I'm currently listening to a future Eminem track. I got it by running bittorrent through a time-machine. The evidence is plain for all to see (or my playedlist)

Good grief.

Scott, I think I found the source of your sleep issues:

http://www.last.fm/user/scottv67

Seriously man, once you cure your crap taste in music you'll sleep like a newborn babe.

It's all a matter of what you're exposed to. In the absence of good music, many people won't find that overly simplistic and repetitious music can get tiresome, or that better alternatives are out there.

I was 14 when my mom showed me some hard rock & heavy metal. I hadn't had any contact with such music before, but I remember I've *never* liked almost anything they've played on the radio.

Others don't have the patience or interest in acquiring the taste. (e.g., I sometimes didn't like many of my favorites the first time I heard them).

So true :) Look at this. I literally hated Tool when I've first heard them, thought Dream Theater is just another shitty cover band playing Metallica, regarded Nine Inch Nails as noise, Pink Floyd was mostly boring, The Prodigy was "that techno crap" and Nirvana was for emotionally unstable 13 year old girls.

My sister and I share a very similar music taste nowadays. But I still remember how she used to hide my CDs under a wardrobe, because, she just hated every music that even remotely resembled metal. Especially System of a Down. A few years later, she bought their album.

http://www.last.fm/music/Skeptical+Minds
http://www.last.fm/music/Fl%D1%91ur
http://www.last.fm/music/Innerfire

Also: http://www.last.fm/api/intro

http://www.last.fm/music/Skeptical+Minds
http://www.last.fm/music/Fl%D1%91ur
http://www.last.fm/music/Innerfire

Also: http://www.last.fm/api/intro

http://www.last.fm/music/Skeptical+Minds
http://www.last.fm/music/Fl%D1%91ur
http://www.last.fm/music/Innerfire

Also: http://www.last.fm/api/intro

http://www.last.fm/music/Skeptical+Minds
http://www.last.fm/music/Fl%D1%91ur
http://www.last.fm/music/Innerfire

Also: http://www.last.fm/api/intro

The small artists I see seem to charge more for their CDs at a show than it would cost me to get them from Amazon.

For instance, I saw Zeromancer a couple of weeks ago. They wanted £14 (or more? can't really remember) for their latest album, but it's available for £9.25 on Amazon marketplace. Admittedly, that's from the USA, but I don't mind waiting a couple of weeks for CDs to arrive.

I'd like to support local independent record stores, my favourite is Resurrection Records in Camden, London, since they're the only specialist industrial/gothic store I know. The CDs are mostly £14-20, but they're £2-3 less on Amazon, and another £3-6 less on Amazon marketplace.

Apparently, I can get music recommendations from the record store. I've never asked though, I just go to last.fm and click "Similar Artists", or go to a gig and remember what the support acts are called.

Some more: Kid Koala, Kut Master Kurt, Afrika Bambaataa, DJ Spooky, The X-Ecutioners, Nightmares on Wax, The BPA. Man if I had my iTunes with me I could probably type a whole screen of tight shit.

They're very much not exceptions my friend. Obviously, there are a ton of crappy DJs out there just like any other kind of performers. I posted some a couple posts up in this thread, but I mean I can even remember more now besides those: Kid Koala, Kut Master Kurt, Afrika Bambaataa, DJ Spooky, The X-Ecutioners, Nightmares on Wax, The BPA. Man if I had my iTunes with me I could probably type a whole screen of sick shit.

just tell this to the US developers who have recently been tried in France, only because people were using their freely distributed software over there...

the really ironic thing is that a couple of years earlier, all personal use of that type of software was deemed perfectly legal in France...

run thru Tor

In Canada, if a message is secret and urgent, Tor is used to get it close to the destination. Then it is printed in code and sent on its final leg strapped to a Husky.

In other words (ahem): Canadians send secret Rush messages By Tor and The Snow Dog .

Except you can't choose your song on last.fm

yes you can

Except you can't choose your song on last.fm

yes you can

Except you can't choose your song on last.fm

yes you can

If you're a last.fm please consider joining our group: http://www.last.fm/group/Bring+back+the+free+last.fm . I apologize beforehand for the link if someone thinks of it as spam but is not. We're trying to find alternatives as well. Thanks for your time guys.

The Artist Royalty Program gives credit based on your percentage share of revenue generated for Last.fm by the streaming of a track. In some cases, this revenue share does not amount to a monetary unit (penny, cent, or yen), which means no credit can be added to the royalty account.

If your tracks have not been streamed very much, then your percentage of all streaming on Last.fm will be too small to generate any royalty credit.

In other words, small independents are going to see none of this money they are going to charge. Disgusting.

Seems to get worse - they are about the change the API, and streaming to mobile phones will not be allowed.

2.You won't be allowed to use our API to stream to mobile phones. This is unfortunately a limitation of some of our licensing agreements.

I wonder what the rationale for that is.

What makes it really sad is that even if you pay $3 you still don't get the on demand service that US, UK and Germany have.

Great thinking by the copyright holders.

The record companies should experiment with sponsoring free, legal download sites in good faith. These sites would feature:

1) works of expired copyright
2) works from amateurs, fledgling professionals, and "past market prime" professionals
3) promotional works from professional artists, including items such as concert tapes
4) promotional works from the record industry, which would compensate the artists for giving away certain material
5) works from professionals who believe in sharing everything
6) works from specialized pros (like many classical musicians) who couldn't make money from selling records anyway

That already happened (just a few examples):

1. http://www.trachtman.org/rollscans/RollListing.php
2. http://garageband.com/
3. http://3hive.com/
4. http://www.apple.com/itunes/freesingle
5. http://last.fm/
6. http://www.classiccat.net/

The Shamen did this with their song S2 Translation almost 15 years ago. Granted, it was a segment of a protein instead of the full genome, but it sure sounded better.

Please see the official response from last.fm on our blog: http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit

http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit

http://www.last.fm/group/Art+is+resistance/forum/50582/_/266685

http://www.last.fm/group/Art+is+resistance/forum/50582/_/266685

Very true. It amazes me that middle class anarchists believe that if the current society is obliterated it will be a net gain for them because a more equitable society will replace it. Historically you're much more likely to end up with a some sort of Pol Pot style nightmare.

As Jello Biafra put it in Holiday in Cambodia

So you been to school
For a year or two
And you know youve seen it all
In daddys car
Thinkin youll go far
Back east your type dont crawl

Play ethnicky jazz
To parade your snazz
On your five grand stereo
Braggin that you know
How the niggers feel cold
And the slums got so much soul

Its time to taste what you most fear
Right guard will not help you here
Brace yourself, my dear

Its a holiday in cambodia
Its tough, kid, but its life
Its a holiday in cambodia
Dont forget to pack a wife

Youre a star-belly sneech
You suck like a leach
You want everyone to act like you
Kiss ass while you bitch
So you can get rich
But your boss gets richer off you

Well youll work harder
With a gun in your back
For a bowl of rice a day
Slave for soldiers
Till you starve
Then your head is skewered on a stake

Now you can go where people are one
Now you can go where they get things done
What you need, my son.

Is a holiday in cambodia
Where people dress in black
A holiday in cambodia
Where youll kiss ass or crack

Pol pot, pol pot, pol pot, pol pot, etc.

And its a holiday in cambodia
Where youll do what youre told
A holiday in cambodia
Where the slums got so much soul

Good stuff. Check out Lacuna Coil.
http://www.last.fm/music/Lacuna+Coil/_/Our+Truth

Then I had a conversation about it with someone and they recommended Nightwish to me.

Third down on the "Similar Artists" list :-) http://www.last.fm/music/Evanescence/+similar

(Incidentally, I discovered both by downloading every MP3 I could find from the network in my university residence.)

I can recommend something like Last.fm for finding music. Stick an artist you like in the box, and it streams similar music (and every so often, the artist you asked for's music).

I downloaded Evanescence stuff when I was about 18, and never bought any of their CDs. Most people I know that age did the same, as we had other things to spend a limited sum of money one. Now I've left university and have a job I can spend money on CDs, and I have about 60 so far. But I still tend to download something, and if I like it buy other albums by the same artist, so I'm still taking more than what I've paid for.

Last fm! http://www.last.fm/listen/globaltags/viola

funny video.
Frank Zappa's "Trouble Every Day" seems to have something to say about shoddy TV news, too...

http://www.metrolyrics.com/trouble-every-day-lyrics-frank-zappa.html
http://www.last.fm/music/Frank+Zappa/_/Trouble+Every+Day

Yes, the Beatles are pretty unpopular with today's youth. Oh, wait, actual data and not random anecdotes:
http://www.last.fm/charts

And I seriously hope no one tries to argue that enough baby boomers are on last.fm to skew the data.