Slashdot Mirror


Saving Journalism With Flash and Java

An anonymous reader writes "New York magazine has a story about some of the flashy new ideas that are coming out of the labs of the New York Times. The piece prompted Peter Wayner to dig up some of the old Java applets he wrote to explore whether more promiscuity really stops AIDS and whether baseball can do anything to speed up the games. He notes that these took a great deal of work to produce and it's not possible to do them on a daily basis. Furthermore, they're cranky and fragile, perhaps thanks to Java. Are cool, interactive features the future of journalism on the web? Or will simple ASCII text continue to be the most efficient way for us to mingle our thoughts, especially when ASCII text won't generate a classloading error?"

206 comments

  1. Short answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes.

    1. Re:Short answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      ASCII and ye shall receive!

    2. Re:Short answer: by DanTheStone · · Score: 1

      Very astute first post. I fail to see how those two questions are mutually exclusive. I would expect that both will be in the future of journalism on the web. Personally, though, I prefer the text.

    3. Re:Short answer: by alexj33 · · Score: 5, Funny

      With the power of Java applets, we will discover a brand new dimension of "breaking news".

    4. Re:Short answer: by Chabil+Ha' · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Long answer: because it's more portable that way. I don't have a fancy-shmancy iPhone where I would have ubiquitous Internet access (but it doesn't matter anyway because it can't run Java or Flash!) so taking RSS feeds on my gadget with me on the run works best. No need for pictures (most of the time), gimme the vanilla information.

      --
      We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
    5. Re:Short answer: by lysergic.acid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      what difference does it make whether you have a constant internet connection or not? if you're going to download RSS feeds from the internet onto your gadget, you could do the same with a Java applet or Flash. it's not like streaming video where you need an internet connection to view it.

      they're just another form of digital multimedia. and just like photos, not every article needs them, but when it's appropriate they can add a lot to the article. i mean, why hold back when the technology is available, costs nothing, and is easy to use? if there's a story on a new space mission, why not let readers see the accompanying photos or video footage?

      this isn't the 90's. we're living in an age now when almost everyone has a cellphone or some other sort of portable device with storage capacity measured in gigabytes and capable of displaying rich multimedia like images/video and play CD-quality audio. so if you're writing a game review, why not include a video clip of the gameplay? if necessary, content publishers can use a format (like MIME) that degrades gracefully. if your device can't play video, it'll just show the images and rich text--or just plain text.

      images will probably still be the most common type of media accompanying news stories, but there's no reason for us to arbitrarily limit ourselves to text and images. it's not going to "save" journalism (because there's nothing to be saved), but it would be cool to read a story about a new space vehicle and be able to view a rotatable 3D model of the vehicle.

    6. Re:Short answer: by Hordeking · · Score: 1

      Long answer: because it's more portable that way. I don't have a fancy-shmancy iPhone where I would have ubiquitous Internet access (but it doesn't matter anyway because it can't run Java or Flash!) so taking RSS feeds on my gadget with me on the run works best. No need for pictures (most of the time), gimme the vanilla information.

      Those applets lock up my browser. I'm sticking with text. Yay compatibility!

      --
      Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
  2. Short Answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No.

  3. Can technology aid journalism? by Enderandrew · · Score: 1

    Isn't this a rather obvious question?

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    1. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Only if you're looking at the title alone.

      I actually work tech at a big media organization, so this is something I think about constantly, and the article is a perfect example of the media missing the goddamn point.

      The way to persist is to deliver a better product. Print journalism is by far the most prolific news medium in existence, and traditional print newspapers are still the biggest providers of that content...right now.

      But increasingly they're cutting jobs and reducing the quality of their physical product in order to try and retain their profitability, and, magically, it's not helping their product.

      At the same time they're investing in ideas like the ones described in the article, which are 100% substance-free, cute little web 2.0 widgets that may occupy a few minutes of someone's time, but don't add any lasting value to the product, and don't pull the new users they need (people like us), but instead appeal primarily to the same technophobes who are their core market already.

      What they need to do is push an actual, meaningful, web presence, one with persistence, where content lasts longer than a week or so, and where the web content is clear, clean, and accessible to aggregators and search engines, so they can take advantage of the long tail.

      It's inevitable that the print product is going to get superceded by a web product. The industry is dragging its feet, however, on really dealing out a first class web product, and so they're basically guaranteeing that when the first really savvy web-based news organization comes along, that they're going to get their marketshare ripped away.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    2. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by cjb658 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It can, but it doesn't always do that. Sometimes it makes it worse by adding more fluff, like the flashy touchscreens and "holograms" on CNN.

    3. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by Enderandrew · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I work for a newspaper company. We haven't cut the quality of our physical product, and we're still quite profitable. Then again, we're in the midwest and people here still like physical papers.

      That being said, I think the big keys is to have exclusive stories that people want to read.

      I read the baseball story linked in the article. The Java app allowed users to see the numbers for themselves, but I didn't feel it was necessary. What really turned me off was how poorly the article itself was written. I think a well written article could have made the case without the need for the java app.

      I still think on principle, technology if well utilized will help journalism.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    4. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1

      The point of a newspaper is to read.

      Any self-respecting news site should do as a paper does and offer only text with a supporting picture or two. The site should be fully functional with AdBlock and NoScript.

      If video is offered then a link the text version of the scoop should be offered as well(I mention this because CNN.com will have an interesting-looking story with no way to read it because it links to that obnoxious media player, and still we have to sit through commercials to watch the video, and some sites include code which pauses the video when the window is obscured/minimized so that you're forced to watch the ad!). To CNN.com and others' credit, they allow decent customization and even localization.

    5. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by Enderandrew · · Score: 1

      People often don't know how to utilize technology, but big media has somewhat embraced bloggers, crowd-sourcing, etc. I think technology enables the media to discover new revenue sources and new outlets. Technology enables the media to better push immediate, breaking news. And technology enables the media to get more immediate feedback from their users to better track what users want.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    6. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yea, we're still making a 20% margin, so we're profitable as well...Damn profitable. If I could invest my savings at 20% today, I'd retire.

      But 10 years ago it was a 35% margin and our circulation was 25% larger. What's yer parent company, just out of curiosity?

      Don't kid yourself that the industry is going to do an amazing rebound. The demographics suck, the paper and ink costs are steadily increasing, and the internet is eating up a big chunk of the ad pool.

      The thing that bothers me is that the applications of technology suck. Making a widget to view scores is fine, but it's pointless without a top notch web presence, and very few sites have that.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    7. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm right there with you. Who wants to watch 10 minutes of video instead of an article that could be consumed in 90 seconds? (30 seconds for CNN)

      I have no problem with video being made available as an extra...If you've got a journalist somewhere, have 'em shoot a little tape while they're there, then post it online with their story, and use that to drive traffic to your website.

      But taking away the text article and replacing it with flash or video? That sucks.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    8. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      The site should be fully functional with AdBlock and NoScript.

      Yes on the latter, a resounding "no" on the first.

      Why? Because they're making their money off the advertisements. I know you want everything for free RIGHT GOD DAMN NOW, but people still have to make money. And the way most companies on the web make money (if they do at all) is via those advertisements. I host and operate a web-based browser game, and I have exactly three advertisements (a skyscraper ad on the right side of the login page, a banner ad at the bottom of every page, out of the way of all relevant game information, and a 300x250 rectangle ad on the logout page. All are screened for obnoxiousness and I don't allow Flash or Java advertisements; JPG/PNG/GIF (no animation) only. 70% of my players block them. That's 70% less CPM and turns something that could be profitable into something that doesn't quite pay for the hosting cost of the game. I've been thinking about closing it down because of it.

      (Now, if you'd like to subscribe to a website, of course there should be no advertisements and AdBlock should be unnecessary. If I offered a subscription service for the game, it's a no-brainer that I'd strip out all advertisements as well as kick in whatever goodies I could think of. But very few people actually do that sort of subscription in the browser game world.)

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    9. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by Enderandrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I work for the Omaha World-Herald. We own most of the papers in Nebraska and Iowa. We just had the second best year of the company (second only to 2007). Ink costs are much higher. Paper costs are much higher. We've installed ink saving software. I really think we could cut down on paper waste.

      We also have Omaha.com and we're pushing our web presence more and more.

      What makes the print product work is that our advertisers still greatly prefer a physical insert over a web ad.

      Circulation is down a bit, but we don't make money directly by circulation. We make money off advertising.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    10. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by Enderandrew · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Except consumers want video. Our web site was going down the tube, and another local site was getting more hits than us. Video was the #1 reason. Now we produce our own video.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    11. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by flyingsquid · · Score: 1, Insightful
      I think the answer can be found in the way the question is being asked: in plain text.

      We're being presented a summary of a story in text. The linked articles are all blocks of text with some images, and a few links to the aforementioned interactive features. I read about these interactive features. The text makes them sound really interesting. But ironically, since the text told me exactly what I was going to find when I played with the interactive simulations, I didn't feel any particular need to actually play with the simulations themselves. Now we're going to sit around and argue, insult each other, and make references to tired internet memes... all using blocks of text.

      The basic model used by newspapers and magazines- large blocks of text, sometimes with embedded pictures, and a place for readers to leave comments (in the olden, bygone days, these were the Letters to the Editor, today it's online forums)- it still works really well in terms of conveying information. I think that additional features [links to other web pages and videos, interactive content, the ability to update stories within moments of recieving new information] all add a huge amount value to more the traditional content, and provide for a richer means of communication. But they are by no means necessary for good journalism. And they are certainly not a substitute for good journalism. People still have to find the important stories, talk to the sources, figure out what's going on, and then present it. Interactive web pages aren't going to tell you whether the White House is exaggerating the evidence on WMD, whether Sarah Palin is capable of assuming control of the country, or what kind of leader Barack Obama will really be.

      It's true that newspapers are facing something of a crisis due to declining advertising revenue. But if anything, I probably spend as much or more time reading stories than I did before. That suggests to me that it's their advertising model that is hopelessly outdated, not the journalism.

    12. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      I agree with you: in fact, I don't use Adblock, only Flashblock. But maybe you could serve text ads instead of banners? Some people still use slow connections and may be annoyed if they have to load bandwidth consuming ads to view the content.

    13. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Meh, I googled you and the first editor and publisher article was how you cut 12,000 circ this year. Even for a big paper like the OWH, that's a hefty chunk, and that sort of measure really kicks your upbeatness in the fork. Not half as bad as the AJC though; those jokers cut almost 6 times that recently.

      Nice that you're not corporate owned though. Corporate ownership is the suck. Our profits are eaten up to support larger, less profitable papers, and to pay fat corporate salaries.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    14. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by Enderandrew · · Score: 1

      Well, we're not cutting 12,000 circ per se. We're telling our subscribers in a specific part of the state (7 hours away) that they can get a digital copy of the paper online, or we'll mail them a paper.

      Not many people truck papers to small rural towns 7 hours a way.

      So, either through the e-edition, or through mailed copies, we're hoping to keep those numbers.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    15. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by nsayer · · Score: 2, Informative

      I read the baseball story linked in the article. The Java app allowed users to see the numbers for themselves,

      No it didn't. It allowed me to see the BBOD and force-quit Safari is all.

    16. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      The biggest ads I have are 50Kb, and the same ones are displayed on all sites (so the banner doesn't have to be re-downloaded; my HTTP headers are configured to expire the cache only once per day). They don't even attempt to download on mobile browsers to avoid hitting those users with bandwidth charges.

      I've experimented with text ads, but they simply don't pay as well (they're CPM ads--while I mentioned CPM above, I should have pointed out that my ads through Project Wonderful are cost-per-day ads; the only problem is that my CPM rates are much lower because of adblock).

      I hate ads as much as the next guy, I really do. But I go the extra mile to make my ads not suck.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    17. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      It should be possible for sites to block content to clients which block advertisments. At the very least the advertiser should be able to feed a stream of IP addresses to the server which hosts the main page and change the delivered pages accordingly.

    18. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by squidfood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That being said, I think the big keys is to have exclusive stories that people want to read.

      The problem is, you all (the "traditionals", at least in the decisionmaking rooms it seems) are defining "exclusive" as "first" and that becomes "rushed and shallow." You know what aggregaters have taught me? That a huge percentage of newspapers' "front pages" are the same story, in the same words regurgitated, as the wire stories. Those aren't the ones I come back to or spread around... the ones I come back to (and share) are those with considered analysis and thought. First to market "scoops" just doesn't pay the bills so much anymore.

    19. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Consumers also want text. I can read 5 articles in the time it takes to watch one. But if you don't provide text I won't come at all.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    20. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by kencurry · · Score: 3, Informative
      I pay for wsj.com; have for several years now. I have noticed a steady decline in the quality of the journalism, with a concomitant rise in ads, "movies", etc. I just want a reliable news source that I can read anywhere, including my iphone. I will pay for it - is that so hard?

      But for the love of god, I do not want annoying prompts to update java or flash. ever. period.

      --
      sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
    21. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by Enderandrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I prefer text for that reason, but ask people who run media sites and they'll tell you that video is what is in demand right now.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    22. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by Enderandrew · · Score: 2, Informative

      It is my professional opinion that Java sucks dirty-donkey-parts.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    23. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      It is possible, though IIRC it requires JavaScript trickery. My ad provider, Project Wonderful, does it on their home page with the following script:

      var isFF = (navigator.userAgent.indexOf("Firefox") > -1) ? true : false;
      var hasABP = false;
      function detect_abp() {
          if(isFF) {
              if(Components.interfaces.nsIAdblockPlus != undefined) hasABP = true;
              else {
                  var AbpImage = document.createElement("IMG");
                  var AbpIframe = document.createElement("IFRAME");
                  AbpIframe.id = 'abpiframedetector';
                  AbpIframe.src = '/adimages/';
                  AbpIframe.style.display = 'block';
                  AbpImage.id = 'abpimgdetector';
                  AbpImage.src = '/adimages/textlink-ads.jpg';
                  AbpImage.style.width = AbpIframe.style.width = '1px';
                  AbpImage.style.height = AbpIframe.style.height = '1px';
                  AbpImage.style.border = AbpIframe.style.border = '0px';
                  AbpImage.style.top = AbpIframe.style.top = '-1000px';
                  AbpImage.style.left = AbpIframe.style.left = '-1000px';
                  document.body.appendChild(AbpImage);
                  document.body.appendChild(AbpIframe);

                  setTimeout(set_abp_status, 100);
              }
          }
      }
      function set_abp_status() {
          if(document.getElementById('abpimgdetector').style.display == 'none') hasABP = true;
          else if(document.getElementById('abpiframedetector').clientHeight == 0) hasABP = true;
          if (hasABP)
          {
              document.getElementById('adblock_message').innerHTML = "write some stuff here";
          }
      }

      There's an iframe with that ID on the page that gets zapped by ABP. I don't feel right using that script, though.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    24. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by RCourtney · · Score: 1

      I'm a daily newspaper reader. I've watched both the quality and the quantity of in-depth reporting at the Los Angeles Times decline dramatically in recent years. I'm also an avid reader of online news. Having said that, I tend to find out what's happening online and then I count on the paper to actually delve into the subject and more fully explore the meaning of the, usually, superficial articles I read online the previous day.

      The real value, at least for me, comes from the depth of the investigating and reporting from articles in the paper. Basically, I pay for a newspaper because they've gone out and done the work to weed out the BS and give me a (hopefully) less biased, fuller, richer perspective of the topic. I am willing to pay for that because I do not have the time to research and vet every single topic I find interesting each day.

      If modern newspapers do not adapt and move that same in-depth research and investigating online instead of simply cutting it down and reducing their already thin staff, they will cease to offer anything of value over the other alternatives and we will all be worse off for it.

      Being first to report something is virtually meaningless if what you're reporting has no real depth or meaningful context.

    25. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      I actually work tech at a big media organization, so this is something I think about constantly, and the article is a perfect example of the media missing the goddamn point.

      I actually work tech at a small media corporation, and getting the rest of the industry to wake up is something we've been trying to do for years now. I'm employed by the company which (among other things), publishes the Lawrence Journal-World, of Lawrence, Kansas. Most folks, if they know who we are at all, know us as the original home of the Django web framework, but Django came out of our need to quickly put together custom applications for our online presence, something we've historically done as well as or better than anybody else in the industry.

      An example:

      Lawrence is home to the University of Kansas; last year, one of our reporters got his hands on a set of documents listing every crime report on the campus for the period 2005-2007. He got these documents (Word docs with embedded tables of the reports) on Wednesday. On Friday I had a demo of a browsable database of the reports ready to go; our UI guys put some polish on it, and we ran it online alongside a story looking into trends and interesting bits we picked up from the data (if you're interested, I gave a lightning talk at PyCon last year which covered, in whirlwind fashion, how it was put together. So far we don't have data for 2008, but I'd love to go back and add it, and see a followup story).

      We do that kind of thing all the time, and it's neither burdensome nor useless (and we have a bookcase full of shiny things given to us by industry award groups -- two examples I can pull off the top of my head were for this feature on the demise and aftereffects of mining in southeastern Kansas, and our retrospective on the KU basketball team's championship season last year).

      People really seem to like this stuff and find it useful (and our former lead developer is recognized as having more or less invented what's now called "database-driven journalism"; these days he's turning out even more interesting uses for online data). Unfortunately, the industry as a whole is stubbornly stuck with the mindset that the printed paper is and always should be their "main product", and most folks are burdened with tech solutions that are far too cumbersome to be put to these sorts of uses.

      Anyway, my point is that not all of the stuff going on these days is "Web 2.0 widgets"; there are plenty of us who, when given the chance, are trying to help journalists save themselves from extinction by bringing tech into the newsroom in actually useful and interesting ways.

    26. Re:Can technology aid journalism? by multimed · · Score: 1

      What they need to do is push an actual, meaningful, web presence, one with persistence, where content lasts longer than a week or so, and where the web content is clear, clean, and accessible to aggregation and search engines, so they can take advantage of the long tail.

      Except that one of best and easiest ways to make content last longer is index it make it searchable - and yet many papers are choosing to charge for their archives. I don't have answers as to what they can do to remain profitable, but I can't imagine that's it. The other problem is that the sort of content that is accessible to aggregation also happens to be the most difficult to make any sort of profit from. Text content is so easily copied & pasted and the culture of not having any appreciation for the work it took to create it is only growing.

      The information/data itself has gotten to the point of nearly becoming a commodity, so good luck making any profit. I have to believe there is a market for providing a better explanation of the information...a better context...making it easier for a reader/view to digest. We are visual creatures. We like games, but more importantly, simulators that not only provide a little entertainment, but also a deeper understanding of a topic and how variables change outcomes. Whether this avenue ultimately provides more hope for profitability, I don't know. But it certainly can be a competitive advantage & value-added.

      USA Today has been using some excellent interactive graphics/elements. For example, Hurricane Gustov Map and California Wildfires help provide information and context to events that happened. A couple of pieces that provide a more useful interface to a larger data set are their Iraq casualties and NFL Draft History pieces.

      --
      Vote Quimby.
  4. Flash is evil... by smooth+wombat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and must die!

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:Flash is evil... by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How dare people try to display information other then forms that can be represented with keys on the typewritter keyboard.

      Flash Won... Deal with it. Faster and Fancier then JavaApplets. They try to play nice across platforms. Hey all those flash adds makes them that much easier to detect and disable.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Flash is evil... by PrescriptionWarning · · Score: 1

      Flash wins, though I imagine its biased because googlefights is Flash based :P

    3. Re:Flash is evil... by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Is it Flash-based? My plug-ins are disabled yet it displays the two graph bars.

    4. Re:Flash is evil... by cjb658 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That saddens me. Flash video is very slow, gives me very high CPU usage, and doesn't support overlay.

      As usual, the product with the most bling (flashiest, if you will) beats the one with the best functionality.

    5. Re:Flash is evil... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't this like saving haemophiliacs with leeches?

    6. Re:Flash is evil... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel your pain, and the pain of all programmers who had to learn it in school / college / Uni only for it to pretty much lose against such a god-awful piece of crapware.

      Isn't the education system lovely?

    7. Re:Flash is evil... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flash Won... Deal with it.

      No, HTML is still beating the living shit out of flash. Try using the web without Flash: most (but certainly not all) stuff works. Try using it without HTML: some things work (like the site the GP complains about in his journal) but most stuff doesn't. Flash hasn't "won" anything yet; it's currently just an annoyance that makes the web a little bit less useful than it could be.

    8. Re:Flash is evil... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Flash is a supplement not a replacement to HTML. You use HTML for most of your data except for when you need to represent data graphically and animated, It is better then using an animated GIF

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    9. Re:Flash is evil... by whencanistop · · Score: 1

      It must die.

      Until it Google (/Yahoo!/MSN/AN-Other-Search-Engine's spider) starts being able to index it (and 'pages' withing it). Which will never happen.

      So we'll have to stick with the standard ASCII pages, so that people who search for the thing in Google will be able to find it.

    10. Re:Flash is evil... by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      Flash's "victory" is precarious at best. Without Youtube, Flash is nothing. When HTML5 browsers get out there (and that's almost inevitable), then if youtube uses markup instead of embedded apps to present videos (and I'll admit that's a lot more iffy), then Flash will be obscure again.

      For video, Flash was a really stupid answer to a poorly-thought-out question. The situation could improve, possibly even quickly. For some things other than video, Flash is a mediocre (not really totally stupid, but not all that smart) answer to fairly obscure question (e.g. "how should I make my web game available?") that most people aren't asking or care about.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    11. Re:Flash is evil... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well then its good to hear you're saddened - you see the opinions and attitudes of irrelevant & ignorant people like you have little or no importance.

      There seems to be a lot of this type of sadness and frustration around here in relation to flash etc.

      Flash is the future - sorry, but you either live with it or else shut-up and get off the internet.

      If you had half a brain i might even say learn Flash but that is highly unlikely, lets face it :)

    12. Re:Flash is evil... by seanalltogether · · Score: 1

      Wrong, flash had an already sustainable community and place on the web before youtube. Youtube and other video sites were just another expression of the flash platform as a whole. HTML5 won't kill flash because javascript isn't powerful enough, or at least the apis exposed with javascript aren't powerful enough to implement some of the trickier solutions being created in flash. For video, flash was the only answer at the time because no one wanted to wait for real/window media/quicktime to implement the features that publishers thought they deserved. On flash they could make what they wanted. That's the difference between a platform and a final product, and its the reason flash will always have a place on the web. Removing flash from the online landscape is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    13. Re:Flash is evil... by PrescriptionWarning · · Score: 1

      musta been the ads then, I only looked at the source for the page and didn't bother further

    14. Re:Flash is evil... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    15. Re:Flash is evil... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Flash is fucking slow on anything than Microsoft Windows.

      FLASH IS USELESS, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

  5. i for one... by Sfing_ter · · Score: 3, Funny

    I welcome our new ASCII overlords, wait, it's New York Magazaine, I welcome our new AXCII overlords.

    --
    A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
    1. Re:i for one... by squiggleslash · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Isn't it time we dumped ASCII and moved over to Unicode? Preferably UTF-8, which is all nicely backwards compatible and stuff?

      ASCII sucks!

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    2. Re:i for one... by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No one as used ASCII in years, really. And UTF-8 is only backwards compatible if all your needs were covered by ASCII.

      It is the way forward, though.

    3. Re:i for one... by idontgno · · Score: 4, Funny

      No one as used ASCII in years,

      At least ASCII has the letter "h".

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    4. Re:i for one... by cjb658 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Isn't it time we dumped ASCII and moved over to Unicode?

      Nay, it's time we dump all other languages and move over to English!

    5. Re:i for one... by MBCook · · Score: 3, Funny

      At least ASCII has the letter "h".

      I'm sorry, but I can't seem to read your post.

      Did you forget to use UTF-8?

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    6. Re:i for one... by nsayer · · Score: 2, Funny

      it's time we dump all other languages and move over to English!

      Fine by me. Let me know where to find a good x86 English compiler and I'll start coding in it from now on.

    7. Re:i for one... by 200_success · · Score: 2, Funny

      Isn't it time we dumped ASCII and moved over to Unicode?

      Nay, it's time we dump all other languages and move over to English!

      You really ought to try Unicode pr0n. It's much better than ASCII.

    8. Re:i for one... by coopaq · · Score: 1

      Isn't it time we dumped ASCII and moved over to Unicode?

      Nay, it's time we dump all other languages and move over to English!

      Neigh, it's time we dump all other languages and move over to Equidae.

    9. Re:i for one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, so how do you spell oðæt in ASCII, tough guy? English has a long history, and you'd do well to remember that.

    10. Re:i for one... by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      Unicode isn't just better for non-English languages, it's also better for English, too.

    11. Re:i for one... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      And UTF-8 is only backwards compatible if all your needs were covered by ASCII

      This sentence makes no sense whatsoever. Whether our needs were covered by ASCII has no bearing whatsoever on whether tools that process ASCII can process UTF-8. Our needs aren't covered by ASCII, hence we want to move to UTF-8.

      ASCII is a dog, hence we want to switch to Unicode. What UTF-8 gives us is compatibility with previous applications. Almost every app written to assume ASCII input can be used to process UTF-8 files. Hence it's backwards compatible.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    12. Re:i for one... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Isn't it time we dumped ASCII and moved over to Unicode? Preferably UTF-8, which is all nicely backwards compatible and stuff?

      Almost everything supports UTF-8 already, Slashdot being a notable exception, dunno why.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    13. Re:i for one... by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 1

      It makes perfect sense. UTF-8 is designed to that a file encoded in ASCII is also encoded in UTF-8, and a file encoded in UTF-8 which uses no codepoint which is not in ASCII does not change interpretation when interpreted as an ASCII-encoded file. That is the backwards compatibility of UTF-8. But, as I stated, this only works with ASCII. *Any* other encoding is not binary compatible with UTF-8.

      The apps you refer to which were "written to assume ASCII input" and which "can be used to process UTF-8 files" are precisely those that do not need to know what the semantic value of the encoded text (for example, they must not try to count words, or paragraphs, or distinguish between case, or distinguish digits from letters, and so on) nor need any of a few other properties (like the number of glyphs, the length of the text, and so on), which do not ever need to compare strings of text for equality (for they do not know anything about normalization) or collate them (in any order which is not numerical order of the bytes) and which are subject to a few other restrictions. The range of apps which satisfy these conditions is pretty limited, and mostly restricted to shuffling around binary blobs---and clearly they could pretty much do the same thing with text encoded in any other encoding which satisfies a very short list of conditions.

      You tell me that out needs aren't covered by ASCII. I know that: my last name has two diacritics which are not available in ASCII, and which are represented differently in pretty much every encoding out there.

  6. saving is not the right adjective by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Informative

    So far the media's use of flash and java has been a major reason for the development and wide-spread use of browser plug-ins to disable those technologies. I reject your reality and substitute my own.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:saving is not the right adjective by tripdizzle · · Score: 2

      Agreed. When I want information I want straight-up text and regular picture and diagrams, maybe a video if it is necessary, but none of this animation nonsense.

      --
      "A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers." Hayek
    2. Re:saving is not the right adjective by prockcore · · Score: 2, Funny

      So far the media's use of flash and java has been a major reason for the development and wide-spread use of browser plug-ins to disable those technologies.

      Yo dawg, we heard you like blocking plugins so we made a plugin-blocker plugin so you can block plugins while you plugin.

    3. Re:saving is not the right adjective by nobodylocalhost · · Score: 1

      Agreed, the only advantage for using flash is so you have an embedded video player that can play a relevant clip. As far as interactivity goes, posting feedbacks/discussions can generally be done without the use of applets or flash and is the only thing that adds any value.

      --
      Where is the "Ignorant" mod tag?
    4. Re:saving is not the right adjective by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Dang right and some times it would be Ok if the video was interactive a little bit so we can try different methods to understand a point... Oh wait never mind.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:saving is not the right adjective by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Straight up text and regular pictures or video even isn't appropriate for everything.

      They can be abused just as much as Flash or Java can be.

    6. Re:saving is not the right adjective by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Straight up text and regular pictures or video even isn't appropriate for everything. They can be abused just as much as Flash or Java can be.

      Yes, but not nearly so annoyingly.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    7. Re:saving is not the right adjective by mugnyte · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree. The web's capabilities with dynamic content was great during the US elections, during war reporting of changing borders, or in anything with charts that allow collective/isolated comparisons.

        I think the use of the tools can be annoying: when it's flashy and overly attention-grabbing, stuff unrelated to story content or when it's the only way to get the information presented - text should always be available.

        The use of any dynamic content, video or not, is - i think - sticking to the conventions of the web: Present the user with the option to view the information in the format. For the most part, people expect to read text in a static layout. Stick to a certain page size (possibly the entire article), use linkable photos for larger versions, don't play video or sound or flash without asking.

        Oh, and realize that your ads are going to be probably ripped out if they are flash, javascript or remote embeds. You should possible just mention at the end of each story which merchants have supported your site's continuation, and a request to use them for shopping if the viewer wants to see the site continue.

       

    8. Re:saving is not the right adjective by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Clearly you've never been to a Geocities site circa 1996.

    9. Re:saving is not the right adjective by British · · Score: 1

      Flash and Java: Two things that can save print journalism for sure. When's the last time a physical newspaper had 8000 popup ads, browser incompatabilities and trying to load & play entire videos for no reason?

    10. Re:saving is not the right adjective by chris_mahan · · Score: 1

      Or slashdot circa 2008.

      Oh wait...

      --

      "Piter, too, is dead."

    11. Re:saving is not the right adjective by An+dochasac · · Score: 1

      I think the use of the tools can be annoying: when it's flashy and overly attention-grabbing, stuff unrelated to story content or when it's the only way to get the information presented - text should always be available.

      Like those horrible "top/bottom 10 cities for X" with slides showing 'distinguishing' images of sidewalks, grey buildings and streetlights.

      On the other hand, I've seen a great Java graphic application which explained mortgage amortization really well. I've seen a gif animation which demonstrated housing bubble's tendency to create "donut cities" and I'd love to see or write an applet which demonstrates money, tax and labor flow/counter flows in an economy, property values over time, the tendency for bubbles to spread regionally and globally. So far, amateur blogs do a much better job of data visualization than NYT, CNN or USAtoday

    12. Re:saving is not the right adjective by Virak · · Score: 1

      That's not a fair comparison at all.

      They didn't even have rounded corners back then.

    13. Re:saving is not the right adjective by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's real progress when many web developers don't know about the BLINK tag anymore. Oh god... it still haunts my dreams.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    14. Re:saving is not the right adjective by ForexCoder · · Score: 1

      Yes, but not nearly so annoyingly.

      You obviously don't remember the blink tag

    15. Re:saving is not the right adjective by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Even with such plugins, I've finally given up on the load of shit at CNN.com. When a misclick on a trackpad sent me to a bare list of 25 things it was OK to lie about in a relationship, I was pushed over the edge. To link an oprah-inspired, content-less list from the main page is the height of stupidity.

      BBC news, my local (crappy) newspaper, and NPR are my online news sources now. The only thing that will save journalism is when news organizations stop fucking around, and start doing their god damn job. Cutting staff and making flash widgits is not it. Repeating the same three "news" stories over and over all day is not it. Reporting on the latest "white female gone missing" is not it. Reporting on the daily "fear the terrorists" is not it. Reporting on the latest celebrity screwup is not it.

      Your job is to report news. Fucking do it, and your job will be saved.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    16. Re:saving is not the right adjective by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Marquee owns blink.

    17. Re:saving is not the right adjective by chris_mahan · · Score: 1

      The one I hated the most and am glad to see gone is the status bar scrolling messages... arrggghh!

      --

      "Piter, too, is dead."

    18. Re:saving is not the right adjective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I just used the blink tab around the phrase "loading..." to populate a div while waiting for the response from a large AJAX query. It was easy, well supported and works to draw peoples' attention to the status of the page...

      Seriously, is this still evil?

    19. Re:saving is not the right adjective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's real progress when many web developers don't know about the BLINK tag anymore. Oh god... it still haunts my dreams.

      I had a professor who made the link to his website blink and scroll across the screen horizontally. It was the most annoying thing I've ever seen. In hindsight, I'm amazed he wasn't sued for causing one of his students to collapse in an epileptic fit.

    20. Re:saving is not the right adjective by Washii · · Score: 1

      You should possible just mention at the end of each story which merchants have supported your site's continuation, and a request to use them for shopping if the viewer wants to see the site continue.

      Yes!

    21. Re:saving is not the right adjective by MilesAttacca · · Score: 1

      That's the right thing to do, but unfortunately, lots of people are conditioned to take all the other trash as the actual "news" and disregard the important stuff as not being entertaining enough. I hope that much of the media will continue to produce and improve traditional reporting, despite the fact that that isn't what gets them pageviews and high circulation counts at present, and hopefully recondition people to seek out what they really should care about.

      --
      98% of America's teens drink alcohol, smoke, and have sex. Put this in your sig if you like bagels.
  7. Defferent ways of perception. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    We have different strengths in understanding idea. Reading is only one way of doing this. However for many people reading doesn't create a picture in the minds eye (myself included). Pictures do help set the minds eye about the information to help get the settings in correctly. But interactive methods of displaying ideas could really help portrait information. Playing a game to show a theory or method for a few minutes, can help get a better understanding of abstract concepts then trying to read them.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  8. always blame java... by heatseeker_around · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "they're cranky and fragile, perhaps thanks to Java"

    Of course... blame Java once again. It's Java fault if developers do cranky and fragile apps...

    1. Re:always blame java... by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      I thought they were talking about the developers...

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    2. Re:always blame java... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course... blame Java once again. It's Java fault if developers do cranky and fragile apps...

      Glad you caught on. Every language needs a paint-by-numbers framework that can make web developers feel better about themselves AND needs to have come into prominence in the past year or two. That way, the language is much less fragile.

      Just remember, the way Java was when it was new on hardware available back then is the way it will always be, obviously. Just like modern RealPlayer (*cough* sorry, I mean "ReaBuffering..." because I'M SO DAMNED FUNNY AND WITTY!!11!1). I mean, all the stubborn Slashdotters will it to be that way, so you're quite clearly a cranky and fragile fringe developer, at least until Java On Rails comes out. Then Java will be stable, scalability be damned!

    3. Re:always blame java... by Samah · · Score: 1

      A fellow Java defender? On Slashdot? Gasp!

      Working with Java every day (and having worked with many other languages and platforms) has shown me that most of the frequent attacks and abuse it receives are really unnecessary and are usually made by people repeating propaganda. For non-Java developers out there: Swing != Java and API != Java.

      And finally: please, please, please do not confuse JavaScript with Java. They are completely different beasts and share very little but a name.

      --
      Homonyms are fun!
      You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
    4. Re:always blame java... by Thyrsus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I blame java because "compile once, run anywhere" was sold as an attribute of the language, not the developers.

      In my experience, whenever I try to use a different Java applet, it's better than even odds I'll have to spend an hour installing the specific jvm for which it was built. Of the two applets pointed to by the article, only the baseball simulation worked with my Mozilla 3.0 plus Sun built jdk 1.6 RPM.

      Perhaps if I were running Windows, life with java would be easier, but that's like noting that khat is easier to obtain in Somalia than the U.S.

  9. Wrong question. by xzvf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The question should be: Does a move away from traditional ways of serving news, mean the end of journalism? This is more hand wringing by print media about their waning fortunes. In fact TV, newspapers and news magazines didn't realize we were in a recession, because their revenue stream (advertising) was enhanced by the high spending presidential election. More and more stories are broken outside traditional media. The real story is how do journalists continue to do their job without the structure of a newspaper or wire service.

    1. Re:Wrong question. by GPLDAN · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The answer to your question is that investigative journalism is still a needed skill, and still worth paying for. Presentation is entirely secondary to journalism, again going back to your assertion that the entire question is wrong: it is.

      In fact, it fails to distinguish between being a publisher and being a journalist. Publishers can use Java applets to teach or illustrate educational points, and again - this has nothing to do with journalism as a profession.

      We conflate these ideas because so many people who call themselves "journalists" are nothing of the sort. They are tv reporters who make phone calls. Most local news is just taken off the AP wire, or maybe culled from the web. It's broadcasting, it's bullshit, and more and more, it's infotainment.

      Newspaper reporters, real reporting simply needs to migrate from printed paper to online. Most of the beat reporters, the guys and gals who dig up stories, chase leads, do the Woodward and Bernstein shtick - they still have a place - a valuable place - in society. For them, the web is even better, as they can mix media. Use an applet to make a map during an invasion, drill down into local reports, even get into designing news user interfaces, something that cnn.com likes to do.

      The real problem in the United States is that investigative reporting, digging around, doing follow-up, attributing sources, getting people to go on record - is hard work and nobody wants to do it. The fluffers of news need to find other work. The Bush administration cowed most hardline journalists. 60 Minutes and Frontline are just as home on the web as they are on tv, even more so. But now they compete in an arena where they don't have a monopoly, so they must be worth something independent of CBS or PBS - and they still need REAL journalists.

      What we are seeing now is that there are too many newspapers in the world, and so it's just consolidation to the best ones. When I moved to Denver I never read anything local, it was all shit. I read the NYT online. Denver is a shit town for journalism.

    2. Re:Wrong question. by nbauman · · Score: 1

      The real problem in the United States is that investigative reporting, digging around, doing follow-up, attributing sources, getting people to go on record - is hard work and nobody wants to do it.

      There are lots of people who want to do it. The problem is that they can't earn enough to live on while they do it.

    3. Re:Wrong question. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      People always say this, and I never know what they mean.

      No more journalists? Seriously? No more people who go find out news and then write about it? The demand for that content is obscene, and the web is only increasing that demand.

      Print media is hindered primarily by their physical capital. Maintaining the zillion dollar presses, delivering the paper, creating the paper, the gigantic circulation infrastructure, the accounting infrastructure.

      That stuff accounts for more of the costs than the circulation revenue covers, which is why loss of ad revenue hurts traditional print journalism so badly.

      But cut out the physical product, and you could support plenty of journalists on pure ads revenue. Where I'm working the journalists account for less than 10% of the staff, where ads account for almost 25% of the revenue.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    4. Re:Wrong question. by Catiline · · Score: 1

      People always say this, and I never know what they mean.

      No more journalists? Seriously? No more people who go find out news and then write about it?

      No, that's not what the grandparent said. He said jouralism "outside the structure of traditional media" -- ie. journalists who do not work for a news station or paper directly.

      Think of it as 10,000 Clark Kents and Lois Lanes, typing away on their blog (rather than at their cubicle in the Daily Planet), and the "headlines" being the articles selected by some sort of Google News style aggregator.

    5. Re:Wrong question. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Oh I understand the concept. I just think he's underestimating the amount of actual skill and work it takes to create a significant story, as well as the amount of financial backing that is required to support a journalist who is working on investigative stories that can take months.

      There is also the issue of legal backing; protecting them from the inevitable people who choose to sue on flimsy pretexts because something made them look bad...Or alternately, providing those legal resources to prosecute lawsuits against government entities who are denying legitimate FOIA requests.

      Without those resources, you're not able to do anything but extremely shallow journalism.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    6. Re:Wrong question. by pileated · · Score: 1

      Right you are. And when it's too late and there no longer is substantial journalism around people will say "hmm this online news is shit news", to misquote an earlier commentor. Unfortunately it will be too late.

      I wonder why people don't compare journalism to baseball. If you want you can go and watch your local little league team. I have no doubt that it will be honestly enjoyable for some people. But many people want to see the best teams. So they pay the high prices to see MLB. But now that people can write their own stories on the web everyone thinks they're a journalist. They're not a journalist anymore than your local little leaguer is Sandy Koufax.

      Online reminds me a lot of the 60s when the counterculture, of which I was a proud part, was going to revolutionize everything. It didn't. Some good came out of it. Some bad. One day online will sort itself out and we'll see what's good and what's bad. Unfortunately I'm afraid by that time that substantial journalism will be dead.

    7. Re:Wrong question. by nsayer · · Score: 1

      Denver is a shit town.

      There. Fixed that for you.

      P.s. Crush the Orange!

    8. Re:Wrong question. by ZombieRoboNinja · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Investigative journalism will certainly still be a "needed skill" and "useful to society" if all the papers die. That's the whole issue. See, right now, those papers and magazines provide most of the infrastructure and career opportunities for journalists. Want to be the next Woodward? Well, you go to journalism school, then get a job at whatever paper will take you and (hopefully) work your way up to the NY Times or whatever prestigious news organization.

      You need print media, and not just a few "elite" papers but a whole bunch of options, if you want journalism to remain even a semi-viable choice of profession for smart and motivated individuals. (And "semi-viable" is generous; most of the journalists I know are lucky to stay above the poverty line.)

    9. Re:Wrong question. by blackdoor · · Score: 1

      The answer is simple. Please quit writing opinion filled, right/left heavily slanted, editorials and actually produce content that is factual and well documented. Newspapers need to become the gold standard for factual information. Bloggers will clean house when it comes to opinion pieces. I always thought it was a journalists job to present facts, well documented double and triple checked facts. I feel like I am reading propaganda for whatever cause the newspaper as whole subscribes to.

  10. Right answer, Wrong question. by Jahf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Display Applications are for web sites.

    Research applications are for research.

    Content is for journalism.

    Journalism receives data from research.

    Journalism provides raw materials to the web.

    The web presents them to us.

    IT and developers create that web and hence its doodads.

    Journalists (and other creators) then populate that web and doodad with content. ...

    The point being: No, java / flash / doodads won't save journalism. And journalism isn't dying. It still exists but has a WEALTH of new contributors, which leaves demand for the few highly trained contributors low enough that many are leaving the field. Yet we still get our news.

    I don't like doodads. When I want news I want content. Not buttons. Not animations (unless they are truly pertinent).

    Journalists that create doodads are trying to salvage their career by doing something that is not PART of their career. Just like Developers who try to create content.

    So ... long answer given the short answer is: No, doodads won't save journalism. But journalism is evolving, not dying.

    --
    It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
    1. Re:Right answer, Wrong question. by paulthomas · · Score: 1

      Ah,

      the time cubed theory

      anti-godism doodad careers. We,

      MOM & DAD & I concur.

    2. Re:Right answer, Wrong question. by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      And journalism isn't dying. It still exists but has a WEALTH of new contributors

      That's a myth... can't find the source right now (truthfully, can't be bothered to search for it :)), but it turns out that most of the "new contributors" you mention don't meet the modern definition of journalist; they also don't contribute any new information. Most, instead, rehash others' stories. Even the big orgs mostly just use newswire feeds.

      Rigorous investigative journalism is dying, because it simply costs too much to do, when weighed against the income to be made from it.

      As you rightly point out, good journalists are leaving the field because it is too hard to compete with the hundreds of thousands of hack journalists ("bloggers") out there... and the badsis for competition isn't quality of work, it's clicks.

      Information, especially "news" information, has gotten so cheap that there is little profit to be made from quality journalism.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    3. Re:Right answer, Wrong question. by pileated · · Score: 1

      I agree with all you said. Except that journalism is dying and that what is on the web is a very sad and miserly imitation of it, doodads or no. I'm afraid that it is not evolving despite the wealth of opinion, not often disinterested opinion, to the contrary.

      I'm afraid that when it is too late people will realize that it in fact did die and that the many claims of evolution were just flat out wrong. It is dying and no one seems to care, outside of journalists that is.

      You want content, not doodads. I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately it gets less likely each day that you will continue to be able to get content, at least substantial, thoughtful, in-depth content.

    4. Re:Right answer, Wrong question. by Jahf · · Score: 1

      When video cameras came out people cried that film making was dying. People left the industry. Films are still going strong.

      16mm cameras
      Disposable cameras
      Photoshop
      VCRs
      Word Processors
      Cell phones

      They all caused similar hair pulling by the "professionals" that these disruptive devices allowed to be in some form competed with by people who otherwise never would have had access. In the end each of these technologies democratized their industries and yet they all survived with talented people who continue to work professionally in them.

      1/2 of the people in journalism seriously today would have been muffles as hacks by the people in the business 20 years ago.

      Is all of the content out there up to par with the professional journalism standards? HELL NO. But I never said it was. However there -is- work out there that has rivalled and surpassed what was available from the traditional channels.

      The great amateur work has finally found a way to reach the masses. Good journalists continue to find outlets to reach the masses as well. Its a win-win from my perspective. The only downside is the white noise out there that sucks. But if we can adapt to spam in all of its other forms we can adapt to this noise, too.

      --
      It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
  11. Re:saving journalism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

    The only thing that could possibly save journalism would be for them to report the news in an unbiased and objective form

    Eh, if that's what you wanna see then get your news from sources that actually manage to do that. PBS and NPR do a better job than most at this, IMHO -- as evidenced by the fact that you'll find people on both the left and the right attacking them ;)

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  12. yes, but... by owlnation · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Technology can help illustrate a good story, of course.

    However, the story is the key. What we need much more of, what the real savior of newspapers will be, it hard-hitting, in-depth investigations, and scoops. This worked for Hearst, among others. And the World really needs critical, trained, intelligent people examining what our corporations, our governments and their agents are up to, now more than ever in history.

    Any blogger can paraphrase an AP feed, it doesn't take brains. This is what newspapers have been concentrating on in the past few years, while ignoring actual journalism.

    Also, there's plenty examples of how technology is misused in TV media. Bugs, hyperbole-laced graphics, and skewed graphs. Let's not replicate that either. Let's not see powerpoint presentation news. By all means illustrate the facts, but make sure you have the facts too.

  13. ebooks by Lord+Ender · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Really, they should partner with Amazon to get their papers delivered to the Kindle automatically for a subscription fee.

    Also, Amazon should release an ebook reader designed for netbooks.

    Both would go a long way toward getting revenue for their publications.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    1. Re:ebooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FI73MA/
      # Top U.S. newspapers including The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Washington Post; top magazines including TIME, Atlantic Monthly, and Forbes--all auto-delivered wirelessly.
      # Top international newspapers from France, Germany, and Ireland; Le Monde, Frankfurter Allgemeine, and The Irish Times--all auto-delivered wirelessly.
      # More than 1000 top blogs from the worlds of business, technology, sports, entertainment, and politics, including BoingBoing, Slashdot, TechCrunch, ESPN's Bill Simmons, The Onion, Michelle Malkin, and The Huffington Post--all updated wirelessly throughout the day.

    2. Re:ebooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldn't this be +4 Funny or Obvious?

  14. Call me old fashioned... by A.+B3ttik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...but I really prefer my news to be reported in text and pictures. The occasional Flash apps that BBC sometimes uses to explore stories feel slow and clunky. Information osmosis time is limited to the speed and pace of the program, whereas reading a text article is limited only by the user's ability to scan through it, which can be done at their leisure.

    I feel like I am in the majority when I say that most of my news-reading comes during work during the few minutes I get every hour or so when waiting on something (like a compile). I don't really have the time to tinker around with a simulation exploring the possibilities. And even if I did, my patience will likely wear thin unless the simulation is either really exciting (not the case in the article) or something I'm really interested in (also not the case in the article).

    Yes, it's kinda cool. But changing the face of modern journalism? I think not.

    1. Re:Call me old fashioned... by JorgeSchmt · · Score: 1

      Games can change the face of journalism while still giving you your text and images. You can use the medium to make the news more informative and give broader perspectives while keeping all the information inline. While I agree we dont have a lot of time to spend reading the news, the deeper part of news is what gets lost in our RSS feed reading, sensational headline, bit story culture. I work for a company that does interactive news. We try to report real facts in a videogame vocabulary because we think it gives you a better and deeper understanding faster. http://www.playthenewsgame.com/

    2. Re:Call me old fashioned... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are old fashioned.

    3. Re:Call me old fashioned... by A.+B3ttik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I just played your company's game on the Gaza situation. Very neat and interesting, although I found myself wishing it were -more- interactive. I read through all of the Points of Interest and Leading Roles because I felt like it was part of some kind of RPG that I was about to influence. Well done.

      When the choice came to "Select a Role," I was thrilled. I was even more thrilled when I was asked on how to proceed. "I wonder what the consequences of my actions will be..."

      But then the game ended and I was suddenly looking at a poll result. I realized that I had just influenced the poll myself, by ordering what I thought were 'my' virtual Hamas troops to engage the IDF with maximum violence. And instead of seeing the results of my actions, now one more percentile of your poll shows that someone thinks the Hamas should indiscriminately attack Israel.

      Just thought you'd appreciate the feedback. :)

    4. Re:Call me old fashioned... by JorgeSchmt · · Score: 1

      I think that is the best feature of using interactivity in presenting the news. You can show multiple sides of a story in a way that is very difficult to do in traditional journalism. Make sure you check out the 'advisors' when you submit an opinion. While the core of the game is presented as neutrally as possible, they get to be nice and biased :)

      By the way, we are the company that did the PeaceMaker game http://www.peacemakergame.com/ where you get to play as the Palestinian President and the Israeli Prime Minister and work to find a peaceful solution. There's a demo there if you are interested.

    5. Re:Call me old fashioned... by JorgeSchmt · · Score: 1

      It would be nice if the smaller games let you actually manage virtual troops around, but since we aim at predicting real news events, we try to get these published within a few hours. The time between us finishing the Gaza game and the result happening in the real world was less than a day! PeaceMaker does the deeper 'virtual world' type gameplay, but we cant do daily updates to something like that the way we can with a web based game.

  15. Cranky and fragile, due to Java? by Teckla · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dear Java Hating Slashdot Editors,

    Java is not responsible for "generating class loader errors", any more than Perl is responsible for all the HTML errors on the Slashdot front page.

    Here's the link to the W3C HTML Validator, go get yourself a clue.

    1. Re:Cranky and fragile, due to Java? by H0p313ss · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Dear Java Hating Slashdot Editors,

      Java is not responsible for "generating class loader errors", any more than Perl is responsible for all the HTML errors on the Slashdot front page.

      Here's the link to the W3C HTML Validator, go get yourself a clue.

      You are correct. However Java applets are an incredibly brittle technology for provisioning software services.

      I would go so far as to argue that Suns initial attempts to introduce Java as a technology for creating dynamic web content has been the single greatest thing working against the adoption of Java in the industry.

      Java is a very powerful language and it definitely has its place in my tool-belt, but it certainly ain't for client-side applets.

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    2. Re:Cranky and fragile, due to Java? by Cow_woC · · Score: 1

      Modern applets are not any more brittle than AJAX websites, and at least they're easier to debug.

    3. Re:Cranky and fragile, due to Java? by SpuriousLogic · · Score: 4, Informative

      Java is cranky and fragile? I guess that is why it is used for backend trading applications and banks across the world. 100's of trillions of dollars is just fine to be handled by a cranky and fragile language. Thank god for perl and their fans for such a robust language that it can be used sometimes for partially stable webpages.

    4. Re:Cranky and fragile, due to Java? by SpuriousLogic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No offense, but your knowledge is dated. This old Java applet bugaboo has been hanging around just as long as the "Java is slow" urban myth. The truth is that applets arrived in a period of time when there were NO rich internet application and were far head of their time. There are tons of applets out there today that are fast, robust and useful. Also I'm not sure why you think Java has not been adopted by industry - it is the #1 language used in corporate environments, hands down. No language has ever had a more popular usage in industry.

    5. Re:Cranky and fragile, due to Java? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just as long as the "Java is slow" urban myth

      Want to demonstrate one Java program that runs faster than the C++ equivalent? Just one piece of source code that makes use of this mythical uber-fast JIT machine?

    6. Re:Cranky and fragile, due to Java? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C++ is slow. Want to demonstrate one C++ program that runs faster than the Assembler equivalent?

      There is a difference between "Java is slow" and "Java is slower than C++".

    7. Re:Cranky and fragile, due to Java? by recharged95 · · Score: 1
      And remember, These were larger-size applets (today's applets are smaller!) running on 56kpbs.

      .

      All you Java haters, who are likely PHP/Perl/CGI/Flash lovers, just are completely spoiled with broadband internet speeds.

      .

      Could any of the mentioned languages run as fast as Java did over the interwebs back then, I doubt it. 56kbps was just too slow. And the applet concept (interactive apps) were truly ahead of its time.

      .

      For all I know, with Obama's Clinton presidency, it's retro-90's, Webstart is likely going to make a comeback!

    8. Re:Cranky and fragile, due to Java? by SpuriousLogic · · Score: 1

      Here you go - a whole slew of tests (that you can run to prove for yourself), that Java is indeed faster than C++. And these benchmarks are with a slower JVM version. Please become educated about what you talk about. http://kano.net/javabench/

    9. Re:Cranky and fragile, due to Java? by SpuriousLogic · · Score: 1

      And even a Slashdot article talking about c++ losign to Java http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/15/217239 Please let us know what crow tastes like.

    10. Re:Cranky and fragile, due to Java? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually this is quite easy to do if you want a microbenchmark, all you need to do is perform a calculation in C++ in a cache-unfriendly manner and then translate it literally to Java, which will usually outperform it because the JVM shuffles the memory around itself.

      IIRC, performing a calculation on two decently long arrays of floats, where you're accessing one element from each array each iteration of the for loop will do the trick - it trashes the cache in C++, but Java slices the arrays up in memory based on the access pattern that the JIT observes, so the thing goes fairly fast. Use -server mode, though, the client JVM is a piece of shit. You also may need to learn how to trick the JVM into not optimizing your entire microbenchmark away, but that's another story altogether...

  16. Take a look at this by slummy · · Score: 1
  17. Re:It all make sense! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So if I stick my peen in MORE girls it LESSENS my chances of finding one with AIDS?

    No. Obviously not. The idea is based on a fictional, purely heterosexual world. The point was if there were MORE promiscuous women, your chances of getting AIDS from any one of them is much lower than if there were fewer promiscous women. But the converse is not true. Not matter how many promiscuous women there are, no matter what percentage of promiscuous women have AIDS, your chances of finding one with AIDS will always increase with the number you 'stick your peen into,' young padawhan.

    That's the whole point of Java-based visual model -- it helps to eliminate erroneous perceptions such as yours.

  18. Useless. by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The linked articles are exactly what's wrong with newspaper sites.

    Called the Word Train, it asked a simple question: What one word describes your current state of mind? Readers could enter an adjective or select from a menu of options. They could specify whether they supported McCain or Obama. Below, the results appeared in six rows of adjectives, scrolling left to right, coded red or blue, descending in size of font. The larger the word, the more people felt that way.

    I go to the newspaper for two things: become informed about current events, and laugh at the horoscopes. I have no use for silly little games and whatnot.

    If newspapers want to become relevant, they need to expand their NEWS horizons and print news that matters to ME. A fire across town is NOT news; it's gossip about people I don't know. If said fire concens you, you're going to know about it before the newspaper does.

    The Governor getting impeached is news, as is the reasons for his iompeachment. The Libertarians' and Greens' Presidential candidates' stances on the issues was news, and it wasn't even covered.

    They have become marginalized because what they print is largely worthless.

    Now, computer simulations in the other link are a different story altogether. IF it's not just done for show. Unfortunately most of them are just for show.

    1. Re:Useless. by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 0

      The governor getting impeaches is also gossip about someone you don't know, it just happens to be something you're interested in.

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    2. Re:Useless. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What bothers me is, just as you sketched already, what is considered news today. The prez getting impeached is news. The opinions of some party leaders, even if it's minor parties, is news. You may put the "lesser important" party opinions onto a linked page if you don't feel that the majority of your readers may be interested in it, but it is news and maybe relevant to see where other parties stand. How about interviewing a few congresspeople or senators and ask for their opinion? Could we get a few words from a lawyer who knows a bit about the relevant field and whether it is justified? Hell, do a survey of your readers and ask them for their opinion, people love being asked for their opinion.

      Instead we see "news" about celebs shitting on the sidewalk and someone finding Jesus in his oatmeal. That's news? How? Care to tell me how this could possibly be considered relevant to anyone's life?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Useless. by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      I go to the newspaper for two things: become informed about current events, and laugh at the horoscopes. I have no use for silly little games and whatnot.

      You don't think that how people feel is relevant to current events?

      If newspapers want to become relevant, they need to expand their NEWS horizons and print news that matters to ME. A fire across town is NOT news; it's gossip about people I don't know.

      I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but your expectations are not normal.
      Most of us actually care about what goes on in our community.
      Maybe you should stop reading your local paper and subscribe to a national paper.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:Useless. by nsayer · · Score: 1

      Fail.

      I dare say people know their governor a lot more than the people whose house caught fire across town, which was the GP's point.

      Also, what their governor does, in general, has more impact on their lives than the people whose house caught fire across town, which is why they're more newsworthy, which was also the GP's point.

    5. Re:Useless. by Cadallin · · Score: 1
      Congratulations. You just ignored the distinction between "Interested Public" and "Public Interest." The actions of government at all levels, and the public actions of the people who make up government are central to the public interest. There are many other types of information that fall into into the Public Interest as well.

      In general, murders and car wrecks don't, they are the daytime talk show fodder of the interested public.

    6. Re:Useless. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      it just happens to be something you're interested in.

      No, it's something that affects me personally. If your friend tells you that your other friend's wife is cheating on him, that's gossip. If he tells you that YOUR wife is cheating, that's news.

  19. Whoa there! by MarkusQ · · Score: 3, Informative

    Or will simple ASCII text continue to be the most efficient way for us to mingle our thoughts, especially when ASCII text won't generate a classloading error?

    If you think plain ASCII text can't cause a system failure on loading, you need to spend some time grading undergraduate essays. Or reading corporate memos. Or, for that mater, some of the more egregious /. article summaries.

    -- MarkusQ

    P.S. If you think plane ASC 2 text can't on loading cause failure off your system, need too spend sometime grading undergraduate written by essays. Ore reading corporate-memos. Ore, four that matter, sum of teh more eggreigious article sumaries on this cite.

    1. Re:Whoa there! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well put, but it's hilarious that you misspelled 'matter' in your 'real' comment and then spelled it correctly in the parody.

  20. Re:saving journalism by value_added · · Score: 1

    I'd add John Stewart to that list.

    Seriously.

    That's from someone who subscribes to multiple newspapers, and whose idea of a fun afternoon is re-reading articles in The New Yorker and Harper's Magazine. Assuming there's nothing on CSPAN, of course.

  21. journalism by nurb432 · · Score: 0

    Is not about 'cool', its about 'facts'.

    If there is not content, you cant make it up by tossing bandwidth ( and PC resources ) eating noise.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  22. New York Times: R.I.P. +1, Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The New York Times has Labs? Amazing. However, such an entity is somewhat orthogonal to the New York Times loss in readership. Most of your readers will, in five years, be mostly Asians and Europeans; the U.S.ians having migrated to Russia or Canada or South America to escape the collapse of the Gulag.

    Yours In Communism,
    Kilgore Trout

  23. Form over facts by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Bluntly? If your news page is filled with flash and java, I'll close the browser never to return. If you have no content and have to mask it with flashy graphics, I don't want to hear your story.

    It's the same with news networks. Ever watched the news recently? It's flashy "breaking news" jingles and enough FX to make the average hollywood movie drop its jaw in awe (which, btw, also rely more and more on flashy explosions and FX to hide that the script is thin enough to fit in a standard envelope), but where's the beef?

    JibJab summed it up quite nicely.

    Gimme news! Gimme information! And keep your flashy crap!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Form over facts by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      funny video.
      Frank Zappa's "Trouble Every Day" seems to have something to say about shoddy TV news, too...

      http://www.metrolyrics.com/trouble-every-day-lyrics-frank-zappa.html
      http://www.last.fm/music/Frank+Zappa/_/Trouble+Every+Day

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    2. Re:Form over facts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What really pisses me off with regards to the news channels is how much of the screen is eaten up with BS.

      After 9/11 we got the ticker. Then someone figured "Hey! We can use part of the screen above the ticker to show even more stuff!"

      Then someone else leapt to he remarkable conclusion "Wow! We can take a vertical chunk on the right and add that to the bottom bar and the ticker and everything else will be the exact same aspect ratio as a full screen only smaller!"

      Give it a few more years and we'll be watching the news in the upper left quadrant of the screen while the other 3/4 is jam packed full of junk.

    3. Re:Form over facts by YourExperiment · · Score: 1

      JibJab [youtube.com] summed it up quite nicely.

      Pf. Flash site.

  24. Re:saving journalism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

    I'd add John Stewart to that list.

    I enjoyed him more when he spent more time lambasting the traditional (particularly cable) news media for their stupidity and less time pontificating his own political views. Still, he's pretty amusing to watch. Glad they put up full episodes online for those of us who don't have cable.

    I actually got to go see a taping of TDS back in January. We learned that John Edwards had dropped out when Jon Stewart asked the audience what they thought about it. Still waiting to get a chance to see a Colbert taping....

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  25. Re:saving journalism by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'd add John Stewart to that list.

    The Green Lantern? Seriously?

    Seriously.

    Wow.

    That's from someone who subscribes to multiple newspapers, and whose idea of a fun afternoon is re-reading articles in The New Yorker and Harper's Magazine.

    But apparently not reading the titles of TV shows nor their credits.

    Assuming there's nothing on CSPAN, of course.

    Or Boomerang.

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  26. Style versus substance. by unlametheweak · · Score: 1

    There has always been an inverse relationship between substance and style in print journalism. The more pictures a newspaper has almost always means the less substance a newspaper has. I've seen the same with Web sites. The less educated will not have the knowledge to realize that flash and scripting blockers are available.

  27. It can be done right. by Ilyakub · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've seen very helpful Flash visualizations on news websites that helped understand the story better.

    For example, this interactive map of drug war related deaths in Mexico is very well done. It doesn't just clarify the conflict, but encourages the reader to analyze and research the topic independently in addition to linearly reading the text of an article.

    Just reading an article, listening to the radio or watching a news program often gives the illusion of learning and understanding new information, whereas in reality very little is retained.

    Innovative and interactive ways of presenting information solve this problem.

    1. Re:It can be done right. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yes, it can be right. Just like good FX can spice up a good movie to make it great.

      But FX is a bit like MSG. Yes, it can enhance the flavor of your food. But it's just so tempting to use it differently, to mask that there is no flavor and just toss it in to make it taste like there is any.

      The same applies to visual enhancement tools like flash. More often than not, you see it used to mask the fact that there is too little content and the whole graphics overload should distract you from that.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  28. Solution: Give people information they need by nbauman · · Score: 1

    The most important thing I learned in journalism was that you have to figure out how to give your readers information that's useful to them.

    For example, if somebody has cancer, he's very interested in a story about a new treatment for cancer. The more reliable, the better.

    Nothing else counts. If flash and blinking lights will help do that, fine. If not, kill the lights.

    If you don't give them useful information, it doesn't matter how much lipstick you put on it, they won't read it.

  29. AIDS, promiscuity, and flash by philspear · · Score: 4, Funny

    The article focused on a hypothetical heterosexual world in which all the men but only a few of the women were promiscuous. In this situation, the promiscuous women quickly caught the virus and became a sort of viral clearinghouse, spreading HIV to every man with whom they had contact. The men, in turn, brought it home to their wives. If the number of promiscuous women increased, the Landsburg-Kremer model posited, each man would be less likely to find an infected woman in his nightly wanderings, and the spread of HIV would slow.

    Not sure of the link to flash (only skimmed TFA), but flash has apperantly cured AIDS AND made women more willing to sleep with me. Either one really would have made up for all the annoyances, both together? Can we declare Flash a saint?

    1. Re:AIDS, promiscuity, and flash by nsayer · · Score: 1

      Can we declare Flash a saint?

      Why not? Getting women to sleep with you is definitely a miracle.

  30. Question from journalist for /. readers by nbauman · · Score: 1

    As a journalist, I always want to know: What kind of information do my readers want to know?

    What do you want from your newspaper?

    When's the last time you saw a good story that was worth reading? That would have even been worth paying for?

    What would you like to know about that you're not getting?

    Trolls are OK. I'm willing to sort out the bad jokes from the useful answers. I do that all day anyway.

    1. Re:Question from journalist for /. readers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get off my bridge, you putz!

    2. Re:Question from journalist for /. readers by Thyrsus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I subscribe to a traditional print paper, so I do pay something for news. If there's government corruption or incompetency, I want to read about it. If there's a war going on, I want to read about it. I want to read about major - or even minor - crime and accidents, depending on how close to home they occur. I want to read about changes in law that affect me. I want to read about major economic and business stories (e.g., "IBM terminates several hundred contractors"; "UNC drops effort to open airport"). I want to read about major social trends. I like the editorial cartoons, the comics, and the sudoku.

      This morning I read a story on the new Governor's agenda, and I read a story that the outgoing Governor just signed an order that e-mail should be treated as a public record.

      I suspect there are all kinds of proposals going to the state legislature that I'd be curious about, but that I don't know about.

    3. Re:Question from journalist for /. readers by Knowzy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Most of the comments here sum it up nicely: The craft of and the demand for good journalism hasn't changed. The means of distributing it is changing rapidly.

      I read great stories all the time. In the LA Times, on the Reuters and AP wires, in the New York Times.

      I read all of their stories exclusively online. I have not dirtied my hands nor killed any trees by picking up a newspaper in many years.

      Paying for news in today's free-for-all Internet is another subject. All things being equal, it's hard to justify paying for something you can get free somewhere else.

      In a way, I hope this changes. It leaves news outlets to rely entirely on advertising for revenue on the Internet with implications that should be obvious.

      I think micropayments would make a great counter to reliance on advertising revenue but we're a long way from that being feasible.

      Good luck finding your niche!

    4. Re:Question from journalist for /. readers by N3Roaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What kind of information do my readers want to know?

      If you get a serious answer to that question, please do your readers a favor and ignore it.

      I had a discussion about this a few years ago with someone who worked at the local paper. I had remarked that the World section had gone from being a full section of the paper to taking up an area about the size of a postcard buried part way through the front section on a page that was otherwise completely filled with advertisements. It was very easy to miss that it even existed. This might have been a gradual transition. I had already switched to reading a better newspaper (at the time a rather bulky paper made close enough that local news was still relevant but of sufficiently high quality that it had national readership). This employee happened to be in a position to know why this change was made.

      Seeing declining readership and with competitive pressure from a better (but not exactly good) paper from the neighboring city which had been expanding news coverage to be more of a regional paper and the above mentioned paper with national readership and good reporting, the local paper decided to conduct a survey to find out what readers wanted. Once the survey was finished and the results tabulated and analyzed, the decision makers had a report summarizing what the readers wanted. Or rather, what readers thought they wanted. The paper was changed to reflect the results of the survey. This was a terrible mistake.

      I suspect in most businesses, and at least in the market for this local newspaper, customers do not know what they want. They think they know what they want and will be happy to tell you if you ask, but if you offer them what they ask for they won't buy it.

      For what it's worth, I still read a competing newspaper every morning and find it superior to the alternatives for general news. The alternatives certainly do have a place. Web sites and feed aggregators do a better job of covering niche topics, radio is a great medium for delivering interviews, and television... well I'm sure it's good for something but I only get local over the air stations which used to have some good news programs, but all I've seen lately provides less news in an hour than you'd get just reading the headlines of the first page of three sections of a newspaper (and often news headlines that were in the newspaper days ago). If I had to choose between a newspaper and any or all of these other news sources, I'd still pick the newspaper. The employee in the story above no longer works for a newspaper. As readership continued to fall, jobs were cut, retirees were not replaced, and he found himself doing a lot more work without additional compensation. He left the paper for a better job with another company. The local paper is still around, but it has fallen foul of financial reporting rules, has been renegotiating terms on its debt, no longer pays a dividend, and it's still not a very good paper. They do get a lot of local traffic to their web site, however.

      --
      Remember RFC 873!
  31. Web semantics 101 by CHJacobsen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For most web applications, a developer should think of three layers:

    1. Semantic information (Mostly HTML/XHTML, although other semantic content such as movies or games work as well)
    2. Basic layout (CSS, non-semantic images)
    3. Interactive/Dynamic features(JavaScript, Flash, Applets, and anything else strictly used to dynamically enhance the user experience)

    This ensures graceful degradation and flexibility. In general, the larger the percentage of web applications using this model, the better.

    If you're able to use Flash/Java without breaking the model, fine by me. Just don't expect me to actually utilize those features.

  32. Journalism suffers by greg_barton · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Furthermore, they're cranky and fragile, perhaps thanks to Java.

    Perhaps journalism is suffering because unsubstantiated lies are repeated so often people think they're true.

    1. Re:Journalism suffers by Aladrin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or because they are repeated so often that nobody believes anything they say any more. Or a mix of the 2.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
  33. Phrased wrong? by DevVar8++ · · Score: 1

    No, I don't think Flash would harm journalism, because the usage of Flash has nothing to do with journalism by definition. Perhaps you phrased the question wrong. I'm going to vote the opposite of what this community is always ranting on about and say no Flash will not ruin the web any more than a concert on DVD or comics made into movies. Its only delivery and sometimes the artist is trying to tell the story as well. Now journalists doing Flash is another story. You don't ask a shoe salesmen to write an inventory software at a shoe store.

  34. Enough Java Bashing by curmudgeon99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why is it that any bozo coder who himself codes mistakes into his apps, is then hot and ready to blame the language? Dude, Java does not write itself. If you wrote it in a fragile way, then it is your fault--not the language. All that said, I'm delighted to see the NYTimes trying new things.

    1. Re:Enough Java Bashing by SpuriousLogic · · Score: 1

      Its just easier to blame the language than their own lack of development knowledge.

    2. Re:Enough Java Bashing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many experienced programmers have been burned by Java. Yes coders make mistakes but even expertly done projects have failed because of issues with Java.

      Maybe you haven't seen it or been around long enough but it's there. I have been working with Java since the very beginning in the early 90's and while it has gotten better, Java continues to have a bad feeling because it seems there is always something that will jump out and bite you in the ass when you least expect it and you can't do anything about it. It's not too bad on the server side where you're basically just running console applications and don't have as many platform and VM specific gotcha's. Really though, even there the only advantage Java has is the large libraries which could in fact be provided for any language (its just that no one has done it).

      At this point we realize that Java's VM isn't really all that cross-platform because there are always platform and VM specific crap to deal with. Having to compile stuff is a pain. If you're going to go through the effort of compiling then you might as well use C or C++, get the performance, and be even more portable/cross-platform. Plus Java is really, really verbose. Java is the worse of C/C++ (verbose, compiled) combined with the worst of scripting languages (performance issues).

      Scripting languages (Javascript, Lua, Python, etc) combined with the old standbys (C, C++) are the true future. See how well Flash has done? It uses exactly those technologies (ActionScript is Javascript with a C/C++/ASM backend).

    3. Re:Enough Java Bashing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Defintely! Java is probably one of the most stable and secure languages available. And certainly more secure than php, c++ or perl. The biggest problem with java is that there are many people who got into it in the dot com boom that should be working at a convenience store.

    4. Re:Enough Java Bashing by binarylarry · · Score: 1

      You sound pretty inexperienced. Java is no different than other languages, there are no hidden problems. It's been used so widely its operation is well understood... by professionals.

      As another post mentioned, perhaps you should be working in a convenience store instead of programming. I mean, if you can't handle Java, you definitely shouldn't be using any other language.

      You mention that scripting language glue and C/C++ are the future, which means you clearly have no perspective on what is coming. EVERYONE is switching to Java-style virtual machine environments. First it was Java, now Microsoft has their own Java, .NET. Adobe's flash is now running in a virtual machine environment, tamarin.

      You need to read a book or go back to school... or both.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    5. Re:Enough Java Bashing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh, there is so much stupid in your post that I don't know where to start. No point correcting you or even trying to educate you because it's just same-old, same-old with you. Oh well, ignorance is bliss apparently. Rock on little Java zealot buddy!

  35. Re:It all make sense! by retchdog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Unless the kind of man who sticks his peen into multiple women, tends to find different partners than those who don't...

    What's most noteworthy is that there are two settings for male behavior in the simulator. Each of them is totally unrealistic, and they give completely different results. ... So, what am I supposed to learn here?

    Not to mention that there's nothing too new about the results, and somehow people in the 60s understood them without a java applet. Basically what happens is that promiscuous women implicitly quarantine the men who find them. It just so happens, if I understand correctly, that there is a portion of the phase-space, where increasing the rate of promiscuity in women serves to reduce the overall rate of disease by concentrating the disease among the promiscuous while keeping men from sleeping with the unpromiscuous women.

    Now, if that sounds like a realistic description of the world to you...

    --
    "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
  36. iPhone by ACAx1985 · · Score: 1

    I read 20+ news stories every morning on my commute from NJ to NYC. I do this on my iPhone.. I have no need for a newspaper that only becomes waste and costs me $1. I have Google News set up as a bookmark, and I read my news that way. No annoying folding/bothering people with a giant paper, no waste.

  37. This just in... by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    ...tools can be used really well, or really poorly. Applet uploaded to the newspaper's website at 11.

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  38. Saving Journalism by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

    4022 journalists saved.

    No survivors.

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  39. Re:It all make sense! by malkir · · Score: 0

    That was all /sarc obviously... it makes no sense.

  40. At least NYT is embracing open source by zokuga · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Say what you want about the NYT as an old media organization, but I can't think of any other media group (ALL media, not just journalistic) that has been so open to creating APIs for their collections of data (campaign money, movie reviews, etc), and I think they are putting out a few open-source projects too. Their blog about "open source technology" (their words): http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/

  41. news site suggestions? by _Quinn · · Score: 1

    Maybe I just haven't looked hard enough, but I'd like is a fast site that worked /more/ like a hard-copy paper. It seems like every news site I've ever looked makes it as hard as possible to browse their news. I /want/ an editor whose biases are clear selecting stories, and I /want/ to be able to read the first paragraph or two of a given story without having to wait for a page load. Print newspapers fit two to four stories with multiparagraph lead-ins on the top half of their front page; CNN, for example, manages 1 lead-in, three headlines with summaries, and a dozen hard-to-read headlines in a column to the right. The other two-thirds of the width of the screen is totally wasted; scrolling down reveals a dozen exceedingly arbitrary categories with two headlines each. The BBC's new design is even worse.

    Now, I was just thinking of using multiple columns and not having ads on the front page -- I mean, if I all want is headlines, I can get them a dozen other places and ways without going to your site -- but you could also do fun stuff like javascript articles in and out of the way. Now, I've never seen column-to-column wrapping done in a way that doesn't end up looking really silly. That being said, clicking on something [near what] I'm not going to read to pull the next article of that section into the same column is an interesting idea. I'll probably middle-click on an article I /do/ want to read, but you could do same thing on the single-article page, too. In terms of an emphasis on speed, I don't want shorter articles, I want to make looking for articles I'm interested in faster. (Yes, searching; but I need to know what to look for. That's part of the editor's job.)

    At any rate, I feel like I spend more time navigating the site than reading at most news websites, specialized-interested ones excepted. (Ars Technica, for example, does a pretty good job of layout, although I'd like it to use more of the page horizontally and/to give a bit longer of a lead-in. But it can get away with a single chronologically-ordered column because of its narrow scope.) As I said earlier, I do /want/ something from the editors: the daily paper's website should decide what from the last day is important enough (given its well-known and undisguised biases) that I should know about it; I can get headlines from anywhere.

    --
    Reality Maintenance Group, Silver City Construction Co., Ltd.
  42. An all-Flash newsmagazine by colfer · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here's a pretty well-funded, all-Flash newsmagazine published by real journalists: http://www.flypmedia.com/

  43. There's only one thing that can "save" journalism by BlackSabbath · · Score: 2, Interesting

    and that's reporting subjects with some real research and analysis, without fear or favour, not beholden to corporate or government interests and without being biased by the prevailing memes.

    In my opinion, people are moving away from "traditional" journalism not so much because of the format or media but because they are sick of recycled, verbatimly quoted press-releases and propaganda pieces being constantly repeated with almost no variation by every media outlet.
    The attractiveness of "alternative" media seems to be the increased variety of opinion available.

  44. Re:saving journalism by nsayer · · Score: 1

    You're really willing to rake someone over the coals that hard over a single extra "h"? It's not as if you successfully negated his point, or even made one of your own.

  45. Re:saving journalism by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

    You're really willing to rake someone over the coals that hard over a single extra "h"?

    You'd have to be pretty thin-skinned to take that cultural reference joke as a severe reprimand. At most I may have knocked a little wind out of his sails from his boast about being well-read, but as the moderator recognized, it was in jest.

    What kind of weak-ass coals do you use in your barbecue?

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have some back episodes of Bill May-her to catch up on. I'm a bit behind on Real Time.

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  46. Killing Lynx Saving With Flash and Java ? by evil_core · · Score: 1

    But what about Lynx, Links or even graphical Arachne users ?
    Isnt that waste of ennergy, i believe that text also will be displayed and scrolled using flash.

  47. Re:It all make sense! by duguk · · Score: 1
    I'm not sure how this quote applies, but I'm going to post it anyway, since it seems appropriate.

    "Saying that Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders."

  48. Media presentation = bad science? by kyliaar · · Score: 1

    From the original article - "In this situation, the promiscuous women quickly caught the virus and became a sort of viral clearinghouse, spreading HIV to every man with whom they had contact."

    I really am amazing at the commonly portrayed concept that AIDS is 100% communicable. Have there been any studies done to show the actual percentage chance of transmission of the HIV virus from one infected individual to one who isn't? Also, are there different probabilities for different types of sexual activity?

    The media makes a lot of issues look like bad science with their hype, whether it be global warming or SARS.

    Does anyone know where to get the solid scientific data regarding this issue?

    1. Re:Media presentation = bad science? by justinlee37 · · Score: 1

      I don't recall the website, but I saw a medical advice forum where a doctor testified that the rate of transmission for HIV was something like 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000, which would be about a 1% or 0.1% rate of transmission. So yeah, "every man with whom they had contact" is clearly hype.

  49. Re:saving journalism by Hatta · · Score: 1

    To be fair, it was really funny. I don't think he meant it personally.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  50. I DO have Flash 10, you idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You need Flash 10 to view this comment.

    HTML version:

    We need open standards that don't suck as much first.
    Java is fairly cross-platform in that it doesn't seem to work well on any OS or browser.

  51. Journalism and the dark ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Journalism can be revitalised (perhaps not "saved") by thinking outside the box. Web-based reporting in general still looks and feels very much like a printed newspaper, for no apparent reason. OK there are a few fancy customization features coming in, but why does everything have to be presented in such a text-driven format ? What about graphically presented news time lines ? These don't require much incremental effort once set up. What about a visualthesaurus-style interface for navigating topics, rather than categorized lists (which appear in print newspapers too!) ? Think visual! Also, why are the different branches of journalism so segregated ? Today's story on the latest in the Gaza Crisis (with no long term context) should be followed by a link to a longer review article on the entire crisis (even if it's a few days old), followed by a link to magazine-style articles on Middle Eastern politics over the past few years (followed maybe by links to books on the topic by sponsor Amazon!). Moment-to-moment news updates are usually almost completely without longer term context. It seems to me there is a lot of scope for new ideas.

  52. Oops. by MarkusQ · · Score: 1

    Well put, but it's hilarious that you misspelled 'matter' in your 'real' comment and then spelled it correctly in the parody.

    *laugh* Good catch. I block copied the text and then mangled it in no particular order as opportunities occurred to me. Looks like I bungled the mangling.

    --MarkusQ

  53. Yet another reason by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

    Yet another reason not to visit "news" sites: they won't work with my operating system and browser. I'm not going to boot into Linux (or gag, Windows) just to read your stupid news. Heck, I'm not even going to switch browsers. If you can get Adobe to open source flash, so I'm not stuck trying to run a proprietary plugin meant for another OS inside a browser not approved by the cloudlords of Macromedia, then I'll consider your site. Until then, screw you and the content you rode in on.

    Big cluestick: Flash is not a web standard, it's a series of incompatible proprietary plugins used chiefly to signal the presence of bad websites.

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  54. saving [anything] with Flash & Java by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just gagged on a little vomit.

    1. Re:saving [anything] with Flash & Java by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hopefully you have cancer.

  55. HIV Spread Model? by wasmoke · · Score: 1

    Can anyone explain to me how the HIV model the article describes works? I have spent the last 15 minutes trying to make sense of it.
    If more HIV infected women are out and about having sex, wouldn't that mean more men are getting infected, thereby spreading it to even more women? I simply fail to see how women being more promiscuous would slow the spread of HIV.

  56. Sunlight by rhinokitty · · Score: 2, Informative

    Getting too pedantic about what is and isn't journalism leads the discussion away from focusing on the great tools that are being developed to help the average citizen understand the powers that be (government, corporations, etc..).

    The Sunlight Foundation has funded a lot of really great web tools, widgets and applets that show how congress works, track money donated to candidates, expose corporate corruption, and many other areas of coverage that the film noir investigative journalist types might still consider their turf.

    Anyone can do good journalism, anyone can do bad journalism. I think talking about who is helping to expose and disseminate new information that is in the public interest (news) is more important that talking about the news industry as such.

  57. Fixing this diagnostics... by Osvaldo+Doederlein · · Score: 1

    JVMs don't have intelligence to rearrange objects in the heap in a layout that favors cache locality. This happens in a limited extent:

    1) GC continually compacts the heap, avoiding free space fragmentation. This results in denser cache lines, which means better cache usage.
    2) Because a garbage-collected heap allows linear allocation - i.e., Java's "new " is basically as simple as "return (freePos += requestedSize)" - objects that are allocated together are typically grouped in one contiguous chunk of memory, while in C/C++ they could be scattered all over the heap.

    The second factor can produce significant gains for Java, but only for very large and complex apps, with large heaps containing tons of objects (not the case of microbenchmarks that allocate everything at startup and on a clean heap). And even in this situation, modern C/C++ runtimes have significantly better heap managers than the naive, 50-line freelist malloc() algorithm used in the 70's. And when this fails, optimized C/C++ apps will resort to custom allocators.

    The #1 reason that many microbenchmarks show Java beating C is that the top JIT compilers are extremely aggressive with three complimentary tactics:

    1) Profile-driven compilation. This is trivial to implement in a dynamic compiler, but for static compilers it's cumbersome enough (requires extensive, up-to-date coverage tests for all performance-sensitive code), that 99% of all native programs don't use that feature even if the compiler supports it.
    2) Deoptimization. The JIT can make heavy bets, e.g. "in this virtual call for a method of the Number type, the actual receiver is always a Double", and generate faster code. If this bet eventually goes bad (e.g. after a gazillion calls of the optimized code with Double arguments, it's called with a Integer), the JVM is able to efficiently trap this, fix the compiled code ("deoptimize" the now-invalid code), and go ahead.
    3) Machine-specific optimization. A JVM will fine-tune all generated code for your specific system configuration, down to CPU stepping and precise cache hierarchy. Static-compiled code must typically be compatible with some reasonable configuration, e.g. "any Pentium or better". Even a fanatic Gentoo user that compiles everything for each machine is behind a JVM because the C/C++ compilers simply don't have sufficient -arch options to match JVMs.

    The last item is another situation that may deliver cache-related benefits, but this is because JVMs are known to generate extremely cache-friendly code (reordering, prefetching instructions for arrays, etc.).

  58. The challenge is to get the message out... by Arrawa · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It is hardly a surprise that not many people really take time to consume news.

    If you would look into the statistics of a news site, you would notice the enormous number of pageviews on the front page, how few people end up at the level of an article and how fewer people ever visit a back ground story.

    The challenge for journalist is thus to engage readers, but also not to waste their time.

    For that, journalists must carefully choose the media for telling the story.

    Infographics can actually help in time management. Also assisting in block reading would be useful.

    Examples:
    • A headline, a short video of a fire, a Google map and some bullets for trivia you don't see on the video and there's the story of the fire. View and you'd know. More work to do, but probably faster to consume than text only
    • Or the live coverage of a demo: live mobile phone webcam, Google map with the route, twitter alike list for instant updates, bullets for trivia (like how many people). Afterwards some pics would be nice. and voila... Fast, interactive, live and engaging;
    • Political news? The issue in a small sentence, then a table with bulleted points from the parties and other stakeholders, maybe even with quotes or video's. Some photo's of the issue would be nice.

    Harder to do then just plain text? Definitely! More compelling and giving more insight? Absolutely!

  59. no good answer by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    If it's simple use a gif animation, if it's interactive for god's sake use java, it is available in so many more places than flash. Also, if your audience includes only Firefox users :) then you can use svg+javascript with a high level of confidence. Perhaps someday that will be a more feasible scenario.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  60. Wrong solution to the wrong question by ancientt · · Score: 1

    The real question is how does a society fund the journalism process it values. For the last umpteen years the answer has been "Sell advertising to the highest bidders" with the presumed question "how do I make money off of reporting the news?" As with so many other things, the Internet is changing the rules of the game. The Internet allows the consumer to get what they want, and not see or spend time on what they don't.

    The fundamental problem with the Internet mindset of "show me only what I want" is that most people don't want to see most advertisements. I subscribed to two magazines for the last two years that I will not be subscribing to in the future and the reasons I won't resubscribe include irritating advertisements. I rely on the Internet to give me the information I need when I want it and I usually get it without being subjected to advertising I don't want. Without the Internet I would be more at the mercy of content providers and subjected to what they wanted to show me rather than what I want to see. For me as an example, the Internet is taking away the power of the content provider to control my experience. In the long run, I believe that is a good thing.

    For a while, the providers will still struggle to try to control the experience of the consumers. Flash and Java give them some control at the moment since they can make the content difficult or nearly impossible to access without also being subjected to undesired advertising. As the medium and associated technology mature however, there will be an irrepressible shift to the empowerment of the consumer. Eventually it will be nearly impossible for a content provider to subject the consumer to undesired advertising and with it, a growing lack of ability to leverage that control into a profit. In twenty years I predict that advertising will only be profitable where it is desired by the consumer.

    There is a solution. This bears repeating. There is a solution. The replacement of intrusive and irritating unwanted advertising will be the rise of desired advertising. As difficult as it is to consider the idea of desired advertising, it is an already existing phenomena. Many people already tune into the Super Bowl every year solely to view the advertisements. For those of us who don't really care to sit through the game, the next day, sometimes the next hour, the advertisements are available on youtube or other venues for viewing. I really enjoy watching ads when they are well designed and especially when they are humorous, to the extent that I put forth the effort to seek them out. I regularly watch Mac vs PC ads and seek out "Worlds funniest commercials" for entertainment. When advertisement companies are good enough at their jobs that they can sell ads that people want to see, then the market will rebound. When I am able to go to CNN or Slashdot and know that the ads there will be ones that add to the experience in my estimation, then the advertiser, the content provider and the consumer will all coexist in a happy symbiotic relationship.

    Until then, I'll keep my Adblock turned on and unsubscribe to anything that tries to force me to spend my time viewing advertisements I don't want to see.

    Sidenote, "umpteen" is recognized as a word by Firefox, but "Sidenote" is not.

    --
    B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
  61. You won't care -- but you're totally wrong. by arete · · Score: 1

    Flash has issues, but there's no superior product it beat out. Java is CONCEPTUALLY superior, but it didn't pan out - partially Sun's and partially MSFT's fault. ActiveX is more powerful, but is even conceptually a total lack of security and has no crossplatform support.

    Since I haven't used it, hypothetically Silverlight could possibly be better, but I personally, based on their long track record, just don't trust MSFT to be even reasonably secure or to play nicely with others.

    Flash video does tend to take 100% of your CPU... no matter how fast your CPU is. But youtube plays on pretty modest CPUs, so it doesn't require an especially fast CPU... it just uses what CPU it can find to make your experience better. And it's better in each version of FP. I agree, that's an issue if you're playing video on the web in the background. For some reason. Although, there are plenty of players for FLV and MP4 that aren't Flash Player... like Quicktime.

    As for overlays, there's no reason to do that. That is, while you might not believe it, Flash Player isn't a video plugin like Quicktime - it's a full fledged OO programming environment. So you can put whatever you want over your video whenever you want, with a little programming. If you want to create a standardized overlay spec in XML so it's shared by a lot of players, you could do that. So the only thing you're missing is the ability to create overlays IN your video editing software, instead of in Flash... which would have to be a much more limited functionality than the complete programming language that ActionScript is.

    I'll take being able to program truly interactive video over supporting overlays, any day.

    --
    Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
    1. Re:You won't care -- but you're totally wrong. by cjb658 · · Score: 1

      Well, my complaint is about Flash video. It has much higher system requirements than wmv/quicktime/ogm/etc. It's just not ready for the computers people are using today.

      Youtube works fine, yes, but that's just because it's low-res. Try streaming HD video on hulu to even a high-end system and it studders.