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These problems are all things the product my employer makes solves. We do RTS/CTS, as well as power control, and full IP routing, all in hardware. RTS/CTS helps the hidden node issue, and power control allows smaller zones of interference, which gives you aggregate throughput close to the theoretical max to an access point.

In fact, we had a similar product that did much of this in a software layer above 802.11, and measured aggregate throughputs of 2-3 times higher than vanilla 802.11. I guess that the concept is similar to what the frottle folks are doing.

If you don't know what a Mesh Network is, you should read up on it. There are some very cool applications.

You can fly in a helicopter at 300 mph+ and sustain an Internet Connection.
City governments are also using this technology to deploy cameras around their cities.

Any kind of technology is always scary when government gets ahold of it. However, I still have some questions about it's security though.

http://www.meshnetworks.com

These are all issues that a network of this design faces, but they are not insurmountable. As you said, the cells get smaller so you have to make multiple hops, but by doing so you can communicate at a higher data rate and maintain that rate across multiple hops. My company has a product that "meshes" 802.11, and in testing we've seen this lead to much higher aggregate throughput when compared to vanilla 802.11, some 2 to 3 times higher.

As for your other concerns, why would you need to know of all the nodes in the network? All your node should be concerned about are your "neighbors" in the immediate area, and if necessary, how to get back to a wired access point. Traditional routing protocols like RIP and OSPF don't perform well in this kind of network, and as the network grows the overhead would quickly take up all the available bandwidth. Because of this we've been moving towards on-demand protocols, and based on modeling we've done these protocols should scale well.

The other thing, and this is more my opinion than fact perhaps, is that when ad hoc peer to peer networks gain widespread use, I believe they will fundamentally change how we use networks completely. Yes, if you just went to an ad hoc network and connected it to the internet, based on the apps everyone uses today, everyone would be swamping the access points and bandwidth to the wired world would drop. But once peer to peer wireless is ubiquitous, users will have more incentive to use more peer to peer oriented applications. If 20 people on the same wireless network want to view Slashdot.org why should they have to download all the graphics 20 times? Peer to peer wireless will give rise to new implementations of applications we use today.

The biggest problem I can see is, as usual, security. IPSEC can secure the payload, but in a wireless ad hoc network it would be trivial for an attacker to inject a false routing advertisement and bring the network to its knees. Routing updates and other overhead needs to be secured for these networks to work.

You can find a couple of demonstrations of how mesh networks can actually work and be implemented in cities and companies on MeshNetworks' homepage. Very cool how the p2p works....

Yet another perfect application for mesh networking! (And another oppotunity for a shameless plug, but I digress...)

One of the products my company makes is a software mesh for 802.11. We have ported this software to PocketPC, so a device like a Compag^H^H^H^H^H^HHP iPaq with a wireless card can mesh with other devices around it. As nodes go down or enter the network the devices seamlessly configure themselves and route traffic around breaks or congested areas. If the access point you were using went down, you could hop through a neighborss handheld and his neighbor's, so on, until you found an AP.

Of course, you could also do this with free software. Familiar + iPaq + AODV would be a viable open source alternative. Once you have the connectivity you could use just about any app. Gnomemeeting or OpenH323 would enable VoIP. Email apps are there too.

What you describe is possible now using mesh networking technology. See http://locustworld.com/and http://www.meshnetworks.com/

So combine a 'mesh' network topology with say, UltraWideBand (UWB) transmission technology (at higher power of course, or have a node every 10 meters :0 ).

The Mesh gives you the ability to create ad hoc, self-healing, wireless networks and the UWB (at higher power than the FCC currently allows) gives you incredibly high data transfer rates (average is 40 Mbps but it can get up to 1 Gig !!). UWB has the added advantage of being able to not be bocked by walls, water, or rock so it can be used anywhere. Many different apps can use the same frequencies because the information is "Pulse Width" modulated - unless you are listening for a particular pulse size (pico to nano seconds) everything else is ignored and is the same as background noise (and thus won't interfere with local radio, radar etc). Think interlocking networks sharing bandwidth and not interfering with each other...

All of the technology exists today for this totally decentralized network with very good throughput. No need for cables of telco at all. Add in some security features and we have a winner...

And it can only get better

In a hurry, messed up the links. Sorry for the repost.

Of course!

One promising GPL one is Locust World, which combines a bootable Linux distro with the AODV routing software, 802.11 drivers, NAT functionality, and more. The AODV libraries are open source, and you could apply this to just about any wireless medium. More info about AODV in general here.

And of course, the company I work for has a proprietary solution, but it is dependent on using our 802.11b card for the time being. That, and we aren't mass producing hardware at the moment. The tech is certainly there though! Mesh networking with 802.11 is just extending the topology of the wired internet to the wireless world.

As far as routing goes, ad hoc on-demand routing (implemented by the AODV libraries I mentioned above) is probably the best solution for building a scalable network. Wireless links are inherently unreliable, so a pure distance vector algorithm like RIP isn't the best solution, and routing updates on a large network would have a lot of overhead with many nodes.

Forgive me if I glossed over the subject, hopefully other can fill in the blanks =).

Of course!

One promising GPL one is Locust World, which combines a bootable Linux distro with the AODV routing software, 802.11 drivers, NAT functionality, and more. The AODV libraries are open source, and you could apply this to just about any wireless medium. More info about AODV in general .

And of course, the company I work for has a proprietary solution, but it is dependent on using our 802.11b card for the time being. That, and we aren't mass producing hardware at the moment. The tech is certainly there though! Mesh networking with 802.11 is just extending the topology of the wired internet to the wireless world.

As far as routing goes, ad hoc on-demand routing (implemented by the AODV libraries I mentioned above) is probably the best solution for building a scalable network. Wireless links are inherently unreliable, so a pure distance vector algorithm like RIP isn't the best solution, and routing updates on a large network would have a lot of overhead with many nodes.

Forgive me if I glossed over the subject, hopefully other can fill in the blanks =).

Ahh, the free market at work =)

Location based services is one of the features the product my company has developed offers. The concept is the same as with GPS, or triangulation in general. However, one thing calculating location within the network offers over GPS is the ability to calculate position relative to other users and/or infrastructure. This has amazing implications for use in automobiles and other transportation apps. When the Firestone tires on your SUV blowout, your car could signal back to other cars raising an alarm perhaps, warning other drivers, slowing down traffic, etc. It might even be the first step towards "smart highways".

And of course, if you are as directionally deficient as I am, knowing where you are all the time would be a good start =). Location information coupled with real-time, up to date maps would make sure I never get lost again.

Before we jump onto some kind of legislative solution, I think all efforts of everyone in a position to make a difference (and that is everyone) should spread the word about meshnetworks.

Assuming we can de-regulate sufficient spectrum, wireless ad-hoc networks will completely solve the problem of network vunerability, centralization and commercialization. Meshnetworks have the potention to dentralize benadwith distribution in the same p2p decentralized content distribution.

Planet P - Liberation with Technology.

Hey man, I agree with you about all of this, and there have been days recently with all of the malarky passing into law where I almost felt the urge to chuck it all - and live like it was 1975 - paper and all. But by the time they manage to get this huge bureacratic behometh to do this type of dirty work we could very likely see a massive decentralized ad-hoc and an emerging phenomona called Smart Mobs and anonymous surfing provided by Hacktivismo, censorship-free and anonymous information via Freenet, open spectrum and finally perhaps anonymous digital cash from Yodel Bank.

Planet P - Liberation With Technology.

Yup, that's more or less what my company does. We have a software product that sits on top of 802.11 cards and allows you to hop through other users back to our AP.

We've deployed it around the office and it is suprisingly effective. Multihopping also gives you other benefits, like better throughput. For example, instead of communicating directly with an AP at 5 Mbps, you can hop at 11Mbps and get double the throughput.

It really is cool stuff, but it isnt as open as this Locustworld stuff. Each has their place though.

Of course they are! =)

<blatant plug>

http://www.meshnetworks.com

In fact, as I'm typing this, my laptop is accessing our network and the internet, hopping through 2 of my coworkers back to an access point. There are about 25 other people using the same access point too, scattered across the 3 offices and 2 floors in this building.

</blatant plug>

I had seen some articles about that proposed broadband service using low flying planes. Sounds a bit far fetched to me, though the military apparently uses unmanned drones for reconnaissance. Something along those lines could probably be adapted, and maybe even cost effective.

Especially if they're meshed =).

We've been looking for a software solution similar to MeshNetworks' application but haven't seen anything on the market except for the hardware-based gear like Nokia's RoofTop. MeshNetworks is promising but they're very slow to implement and have been spewing teaser press releases for almost a year now.

We've been working on a semi-mesh initiative by engineering gear from the Orinoco line for a 1,700 home subdivision but the Locust software may allow us to create a full-mesh deployment.

Thx much for the excellent submittal! :-)

http://www.meshnetworks.com

really, i dont work for them(or anyone else ;0/). There are many vying to use this same tech - mostly for the purpose of delivering bandwidth with wireless none line tech (as opposed to line of site that has had some success already)- but there are other reasons.

I remember way back when people liked the internet there were more than one 'visionary' wantabe entrapeneur proposing highly efficient planes (or even balloons) basically hovering over urbania and reflecting fat bandwith to all. Think of it as a flying high gain antenna - 24/7(pairs or quads i think). Really, i'm not making this up.

At the risk of ridicule and flame anybody ever power-chute? (stick with me I'm going somewhere with this), then picture a miniature sized, radio powered, highly efficient 802.11 WAP baring airplane (did you know there have been radio planes[not powered-chutes] that stayed up for as much as 30 hours or for trans - atlantic flights), with a panning camera ...a kind of 802.11 distibution machine with eyes and limited brains. Swarm like even or autonomous drones or singular and remote controlled. In pairs, comunal even, slow, methodical but highly efficient INSTANTLY DEPLOYABLE ROAMING NETWORK.

Want an applicaton for meshnetworks?
-boats with bandwidth and beer
-live bikinis at high rez and beer
-instantly deployable roaming netowork

Back to the fridge....

The stardard (802.11b) is fundementally flawed, though. Proprietary or not, someone will have to step in and do something about it, and if there is a financial incentive to do so, they will do it sooner.

<BLATENT PLUG>

Enter the company I work for =). We have a software overlay that sits on 802.11b and allows for multi-hop, etc. It uses feedback from the card to find the best path back to an AP through multiple hops, at the highest datarate possible. I've been deploying a beta version of our software in-house, and although I may be a bit biased, it really is a boon for WiFi. Seamless handoff, multihop, the works.

I might also point out we have a solution that supports mobility at highway speeds. From what little RF theory I know, doppler shift will kill 802.11b at anything over walking speeds. I routinely demo this technology to different companies on a local highway. And I can promise this, the tagline "T1 in your pocket" is all too apt. Even if driving around can be monotonous, reading /. while listening to internet radio (what's left, at least) at 70 MPH helps.

<BLATENT PLUG>

I might also point out that there is a project for Linux called MobileMesh that is doing a lot of this for Linux. There you go, open source and everything =).

Yet another application for when we have universal wireless networking. People love talking about what you can do with universal wireless networking, but they all conveniently ignore the fact that such a network does not exist and will not for a long time yet.

It exists today. We have ASICs already. Believe me, it IS coming.

Getting the network up ISN'T an easy task. But by making every car a node, we could deploy a fairly robust network across the country in a car model year. The fact of the matter is mesh networking NEEDS to happen, whether my company does it or not. The problems you mention about cell coverage (dropouts, service in tunnels, etc.) would be solved, you could hop from car to car out of the tunnel and onto the infrastructure. When a building gets between you and a tower, you could hop through a subscriber that has line of sight to it. Physics works FOR you, instead of against you. It really is cool, and I get to use it every day =).

This is about a whole hell of a lot more than browsing in a car. Think ubiquitous computing.

This would enable more than internet access. By putting mesh nodes in every vehicle, you could deploy a broadband network across the entire country, for very little cost, and in a minimal amount of time. The users would subsidize the network, a complete 180 from the current cell phone business model. Since it is IP based, ANY existing IP app would work over it. With QoS support, VoIP could replace CDMA/GSM networks, and sound better too (I can vouch for this, my company is doing this TODAY).

The problem with a technology like this, and predicting where it will go, is that the applications arent there yet. And they wont be until a network capable of enabling them is deployed. It is short-sighted to claim there is no use for something like this. But I can tell you one app that it could be applied to today, that every Slashdotter would love: internet radio. Think about it, access to thousands of stations, spanning hundreds of countries, thousands of genres, and no Clear Channel in sight =).

You hit the nail on the head right there. Check out my employer's website, since that is the crux of what we are doing today. Actually, Fox News just did a story on us, which should go national soon. I'm the one running the computer in the video, and yes I'm busy surfing Slashdot ;)

Basically, instead of transmitting at high power to a base station, the transciever finds the path that takes the least amount of power. By transmitting at lower power, you get better spectrum reuse in a given area. One conventional cell becomes thousands of picocells. It really doesnt make sense to try to run a packet switched protocol like IP over circut switched networks like CDMA, et al.

This guy does have the right idea, but I think some people are reading the article the wrong way. He isn't calling for deregulation, just more bands for people to experiment in, like the ISM band.

We've done that at my company, switching between an 802.11b network and our "4G" network, seamlessly. Our current network does this already, proxies ARPs and transfers the TCP connection between routers as you move down the highway. Quite cool =).

On a similar note, we've extended the range of 802.11b over several miles, using only software. All covered here: http://www.meshnetworks.com/pages/newsroom/press_r eleases/release_02_06_02.htm.

In Orlando, eh?

*shameless plug*My employer, based in Orlando, is developing a wireless product somewhat similar, that solves a lot of these problems. It is interesting in that the more users join the network, the better the connectivity for everyone (i.e. more potential routes). We have a test network set up near our headquarters, and I can go out anywhere within it and get high-speed internet access (limited only by the T1 backhaul).

This stuff could become useful, in a business setting, for instance, by allowing employees to wander around with laptops with wireless network hardware, and have a self-assembling network.

Like, say, this?