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Domain: mono-project.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to mono-project.com.
Comments · 571
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Re:the promise?
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Re:qemu + winXP
-> but I've started playing around with
Errr...why not Mono? That's what it's there for!
http://mono-project.com/ -
Let me guess what might have happened.
A bunch of developers caught sick with Mono, and everything got set back a few months, at least.
Go on, ask them who they've been kissing up to, so to speak... -
Re:Silly Wabbit
I refuse to bend my knee to Redmond.
You don't have to. -
ASP.NET
Microsoft ASP.NET is also an alternative. It's fairly new but the new MSDN is written in asp.net 2.0. It's a mixed application between parsed stuff (like traditional asp and perl) and compiled stuff like Java, C++. Couple benchmark proved that this was faster that Java. Not platform independant for now, but it's a mather of time with mono.
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Re:Of Course!
hmm.. how about this?
Then again for a more classic VB approach there is always this. though the latter is a commercial package, just pointing it out..
In any case, I think java, or mono are probably your best bets for cross platform, and since java's license restricts it a bit, and makes it a total painfull effort to even *get* working on some platforms... mono may be the better choice.. IMHO it's very ironic that an MS developed platform is probably what will bring the ultimate in cross platform portability for gui applications. -
Re:Apache license?
see: Mono (C# + gtk#) and you have a managed environment for gnome headed by one of the gnome founders, and backed by Novell (SuSE/Ximian)...
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Re:Eclipse?
There is an open source C#. Take a look at Mono, which is a completely open source CLR and C# compiler. They have implemented most of
I have read that Mono is complete enough to run VB ASP.NET applications natively on a *nix box. (But not VB GUI apps since they don't have the Windows GUI classes implemented).
As for "Open Source" bias, it ranges from a political belief that all software should be Free (Stallman), to a more practical belief that no one shoul be subject to proprietary lock-in, which is awlays a risk with a single-vendor closed product.
For some it is just the desire that software be free (as in pay no money for it).
I personally subscribe to the "Free Software" philosophy. I believe that we should always be able to see, use, and extend the code we use.
This is why whenever possible I release my code under the GPL. (Mind you, I haven't put anything out there that anyone has really wanted to use! But it is there, in no small part as payment for all the great Free Software I have been able to use.)
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Re:a 'few' rough edgesE.g. can I simply compile my C# applications on OS X in Xcode, or on Linux, even if I have used cross-platform libraries like wxWidgets?
yes, although the 'in Xcode' part is still shaky.
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Re:I don't think so
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Visual Studio & .NET are getting better!
Disclaimer for
end-disclaimer.
The MS bashing is quite disturbing. Well i know that
While i may have made myself flamebait, i think that if you are honestly interested in VS, you wont be disappointed by the new improvements they've made to Visual Studio. -
Re:But does it...
Why learn a platform specific language
C# is not platform specific. However, the
That said, the Mono Project allows you to write code in any -
Re:But does it...
Try Mono.
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Re:But does it...
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Re:What if it were written in Java?
Having it be a language that doesn't suck dirty swamp water through used oil filters would be a pleasant bonus, but that doesn't seem to be an option.
Did you notice that Mono supports numerious languages?
There is not one single language. With Mono, you can (1) pick from a growing variety of source languages that (2) all interoperate on a common runtime system that is (3) portable across platforms and (4) compiles to native code.
Doesn't this just about fit the request of the grandparent post in his search for an ideal deployment runtime for Free software? -
Re:What if it were written in Java?
Having it be a language that doesn't suck dirty swamp water through used oil filters would be a pleasant bonus, but that doesn't seem to be an option.
Did you notice that Mono supports numerious languages?
There is not one single language. With Mono, you can (1) pick from a growing variety of source languages that (2) all interoperate on a common runtime system that is (3) portable across platforms and (4) compiles to native code.
Doesn't this just about fit the request of the grandparent post in his search for an ideal deployment runtime for Free software? -
Re:What if it were written in Java?
Didn't you read what he said?
I don't care what people say to the contrary
His mind is made up.
It does not matter that you once believed the same, but then saw contrary examples which changed your belief.
Compilers to native code. Direct linkage to native widget sets on the native platform. Concrete examples of software compiled this way. Java will still forever look bad and be slow.
I was reading about IKVM the other day, and was surprised at how (apparently easily) you could now compile Java to native code, access all of the GNU Classpath and Mono framework, including various user interface technologies, some of which are implemented in pure native code. -
Re:Price
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Re:If Apple hadn't controlled so much in the past.
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Re:ASP.NET
Its not better than ASP.NET in any way except for the fact you can put it on servers that have free OS's.
Nope.
You *can* develop & run ASP.NET on servers that have free OSs.
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Re:Apache
"Imagine having apache run
In my experience Mono http://www.mono-project.com/ has done a wonderfull job at runing ASP.NET apps and web services.
To run clasic ASP get this.
http://www.apache-asp.org/
If you are concerned with their legality go check Tomcat and JBoss
Cheers,
Adolfo -
Re:Maybe im missing something here..
There may not be a Microsoft
Mono isn't 100% compatible with all of
Mono also provides it's own extensions, such as a GTK+ binding (Gtk#) and Unix-integration libraries.
Mono is already useful and in use.
Now, I'm not saying that any piece of
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Re:Maybe im missing something here..
There may not be a Microsoft
Mono isn't 100% compatible with all of
Mono also provides it's own extensions, such as a GTK+ binding (Gtk#) and Unix-integration libraries.
Mono is already useful and in use.
Now, I'm not saying that any piece of
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Re:Maybe im missing something here..
There may not be a Microsoft
Mono isn't 100% compatible with all of
Mono also provides it's own extensions, such as a GTK+ binding (Gtk#) and Unix-integration libraries.
Mono is already useful and in use.
Now, I'm not saying that any piece of
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Re:Maybe im missing something here..
There may not be a Microsoft
Mono isn't 100% compatible with all of
Mono also provides it's own extensions, such as a GTK+ binding (Gtk#) and Unix-integration libraries.
Mono is already useful and in use.
Now, I'm not saying that any piece of
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Re:Maybe im missing something here..
There may not be a Microsoft
Mono isn't 100% compatible with all of
Mono also provides it's own extensions, such as a GTK+ binding (Gtk#) and Unix-integration libraries.
Mono is already useful and in use.
Now, I'm not saying that any piece of
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Re:Possible GPL Violation?
Mono license the class library under the MIT X11 license. Check at http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing
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Re:Miguel's take on Harmony
Mono works great and has dozens of high quality applications. Why trust some unknown on Slashdot when you can see the results for yourself. Calling Miguel a "PR man for a competing product" just shows your ignorance. He's the guy who started GNOME, wrote GNUmeric and generally got people as excited about the desktop side of UNIX as Stallman and Torvalds did for the operating system.
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Re:Will it also follow that...
Today we have
I have something for you
there now you can get mono on OS X... foiled your theory of 'proprietary development models' yada yada...
Windowspowered devices have been argued inferior over palm . . . taken over that market as well. They did so because they were Microsoft
Actually I believe the reason they took over was simply because blackberry's killed the low end of the market, and palm was too little, too late in a the pr0n surfing capabilities... Also, the pocket pc market isn't that healty either, it's an overpriced toy for executives who want to be able to watch porn anywhere... PDAs simply aren't useful enough to justify the cost... the ones that do everything cost too much and the cheap ones do little a free with contract cell phone can't do almost as well...
Bill gates is right and wrong about the ipod, yeah the ipod won't always be a cash cow, eventually it'll be little more than a walkman... a staple people who want to listen to music on the go buy, but they won't want to pay more than $20-30 for a basic model... Also flash memory based players will get smaller, better, and cheaper why lug around an ipod, when a watch sized mp-3 player has 4 GB of capacity and runs 12 hours off it's recharageable li-ion battery.. -
Re:mono project
http://www.mono-project.com/ is the official homepage of the Mono project.
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Re:While it would be nice...
ok, I've made myself feel a bit silly now. anyway, try number 2:
http://www.mono-project.com/ -
Mono on OS X
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Mono
If you can stand to wait until Mono has gotten the WinForms is done, then afaik, you will be able to write a single app that runs on both win32 and linux(using GTK/Gnome I assume).. Or so I've been lead to believe
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Problem with the licencing?????
Excuse me, but I really can't understand the phrase: "Unfortunately, Mono was too much with its multiple licenses."
Anybody read this? http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing
Uses 3 common licences from the GNU/Linux world, GPL, LGPL and MIT/X11. Don't you use X? Don't you use the linux kernel? Does the licensing trouble you?
I really didn't understand this, Mono is one of the clearest (and most convienient) in licensing terms.... -
Re:Wrong wrong wrong wrong
wtf does Mono have to do with Java?
From the Mono frontpage:
Mono is a platform for running and developing modern applications, based on the ECMA/ISO Standards. Mono can run existing programs targeting the
And also, from the Mono Java page:
Execution of Java code in Mono today is done with IKVM (http://www.ikvm.net) the Java virtual machine that runs on top of the Common Language Infrastructure.
Today IKVM is fully supported by Mono and its part of the standard Mono package distribution. As it stands today, it is able to run popular applications like Eclipse and Derby. -
Re:Wrong wrong wrong wrong
wtf does Mono have to do with Java?
From the Mono frontpage:
Mono is a platform for running and developing modern applications, based on the ECMA/ISO Standards. Mono can run existing programs targeting the
And also, from the Mono Java page:
Execution of Java code in Mono today is done with IKVM (http://www.ikvm.net) the Java virtual machine that runs on top of the Common Language Infrastructure.
Today IKVM is fully supported by Mono and its part of the standard Mono package distribution. As it stands today, it is able to run popular applications like Eclipse and Derby. -
Re:Java isn't free and Sun isn't a friend to OSS
Free, Open Source
Free, Open Source Java - oh, wait, there isn't any. No, really, there isn't. Read 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5. -
Re:Anyone Have Actual Experience With Mono?
Visual Basic and Java and Python and Oberon and Object Pascal and Boo and Nemerle and Component Pascal and Forth and Lisp and Smalltalk and Logo and Tachy.
Some of the packages are still in the larval stages, but they're out there, and more are on the horizon. -
Re:Anyone Have Actual Experience With Mono?
Visual Basic and Java and Python and Oberon and Object Pascal and Boo and Nemerle and Component Pascal and Forth and Lisp and Smalltalk and Logo and Tachy.
Some of the packages are still in the larval stages, but they're out there, and more are on the horizon. -
Re:Mono and GCC/gcj
Why another back-end, yes GCC does not support JIT but you could have used LLVM for that.
The JIT isn't the issue. The intermediate language is, or rather was, the issue. When Mono was started, GCC used a register-based intermediate language. It is difficult to translate a register-based intermediate language to a stack-based intermediate language.
Look at the GCC/Java backend, which skips the entire register-based intermediate layer; the GCC/Java project basically re-wrote the GCC back-end to avoid the register layer. Because of this, you couldn't compile any GCC-supported language to Java bytecode, such as C, C++, FORTRAN, Ada, because they all targeted the register IL instead of Java's stack-based IL.
See also: Mono's Technical FAQ.
Things are somewhat different as of GCC 4, due to the GIMPLE architecture which should support stack-based architectures such as Java bytecode and CIL. However, GCC 4 didn't exist when Mono was started (it doesn't exist now, except in beta form), so it obviously couldn't be used as part of Mono.
Another thing is Mono developers don't seem to listen to some of the GCC developers when it comes to algorithms, one example is their PRE implementation is based on much slower and not as good algorithm as the one which GCC uses GVN/PRE.
I can't speak to the truth of this, but I can say that I haven't seen any comments from GCC developers on the mono mailing lists regarding the SSAPRE algorithms. I can't think of any messages from a GCC developer on the mono lists, actually...
From gcj prospective: (again) Why another back-end? Why another ABI, instead of hooking gcj and Mono together, there is another static ABI?
Another backend was necessary because CIL and Java bytecode are different. Differences are outside the scope of this, but one difference is whether or not types are part of the opcodes -- compare Java's iadd, ladd, fadd, dadd to CIL's add opcode. Generics add a further difference -- compare Java's type erasure to the "baked-in" generics support of CIL.
To support CIL at all, you need to support another backend, just to support the differences between Java bytecode and CIL. Alternatively, you can argue that CIL shouldn't be supported, which would tie
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No ASP.Net SupportOnce, there was a project known as Gnome Basic, which was intended to work as a replacement for VB. Then the project was suddenly abandoned, because the authors decided that VB.Net was the way to go.
Unfortunately, the Mono Basic has thus far failed to materialize. I keep reading about how it's slowly creeping, but all the real focus is on C#. If it's gotten past the "Hello, World" state where it was a couple years ago, I haven't heard about it.
Each time I read how Mono is advancing, and how complete Mono web development is, I have another look at the status of MonoBasic. That means I go to the whopping one (count 'em!) page devoted to Mono Basic. It says (just as it did a year ago):
- The above features are fully implemented and are being checked for conformance to MS's implementation.
So what's the status? Is it 10% done? 90% done? Is there a timetable attached to the project? Will the Mono IDE support it?
I can't tell. It's pretty much the way it's always been.
The Visual Basic runtime has been ported over, allowing applications compiled on ASP.NET to run, but that's not the same thing, at all. Note that it was donated by Mainsoft, not developed by the Mono folk themselves.
It's too bad, because we're an ASP.Net shop, and we're not about to jump over to C#. Don't bother with the lecture about how the only difference between the two languages is just syntactic sugar, either.
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Re:quote
As it also says on that page, you cant write 1000 lines of code today without falling foul of SOMEONES patents, so that statement is more of a warning rather than anything else.
More info On the patent issue. -
Wow...
Wow. You are serious.
I would not let that bug-ridden, insecure, non-standards complaint, "please add me to your bot-network and steal some personal info while you're at it" piece of crap software anywhere near my OS X box
Are you referring to the server-side functionality of
I've written a few
As far as server-side goes, yes, it would be nice to run -
Re:No, they want to keep their integrity.
For Java at least the spec is open: anyone may make an alternative implementation. For
While I do not disagree with your argument on why Java needs to be protected, your statement that there is no formal spec for
From the microsoft site:
The Common Language Runtime (CLR) is Microsoft's commercial implementation of the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) specification. The CLI specification is an international standard (read ECMA) for creating development and execution environments in which languages & libraries work together seamlessly.
Read More
The C# language is also an ECMA formal spec.
For a serious alternative implementation, Go-Mono. As to its unclear legal status, we have our own Miguel De Icaza discussing these issues, Here.
I guess he is tired people are raising the same issues everytime. Its been done to death. And Miguel is quite liked inside Microsoft too. -
Re:Java scripting
What about the numerous examples in Microsoft's documentation that only show the VB way to accomplish something?
Pretty much all
Language options are nice. Platform options are even better.
Now you have both -
Re:Thin wrapper?
Windows-only, are you sure?
Pretty screens here
And "with the default MS runtime that's the only way to get GUI" is not really true, since you can release the gtk# lib or wx# lib with your application (plus the native dll for windows), and it will run fine using the MS
Pretty much like Python or Perl applications using wx or gtk. -
Re:Who said?
Apparently you read that from the blurb and not TFA. I'll give you a break and say that the second paragraph there starts with "Software Architect Marvin Theimer..." and the ninth, "Theimer also outlined Microsoft's goals for two follow-up versions. The next version of the Compute Cluster edition will extend to Microsoft's
I've coded a bit with C#, and would love it if it supported USB, but still feel comfortable with it, even if it isn't the best thing one can use. I'd personally take it over Java, especially with Mono's effort, though it doesn't work on a Mac from the little I know. -
Re:it's not reverse engineering
Did you even bother to read what I wrote? These are mostly Gnome applications written in the C# language. They don't use ASP.NET or ADO.NET.
Your point would be well made if all Mono wanted to do was implement C# but obviously Mono looks do to much more than that. I never meant to imply that these early adopter apps use ASP/ADO.NET as they clearly do not. I was merely commenting on the the larger issue touched on by the great grandparent which is the possibility of MS trying to damage Mono somehow (by using an IP / patent club in my example).
Who is to say that MS won't at some later date apply for a patent to some core part of
Depending on the good graces of someone who will go to great lengths to stop Linux is something we ought to consider *very carefully* before embracing Mono with both arms.
The non-standardized parts of
Note that Mono very openly encourages and advertises Mono's support for these questionable portions of
Your risk and exposure to Microsoft IP results from your choice of using ASP.NET and ADO.NET in the first place; the existence of Mono, if anything, reduces your risk and exposure somewhat, but, of course, it can't completely eliminate it.
Saying that the patent issue is a "red herring" is an enormous stretch. Mono's web site acknowledges that is an issue and even tries to come up with mitigating factors. Heck, Miguel even acknowledges that this is an issue which deserves debate, discussion and may result in the FOSS community having to route around patent damage. I'm not sure why you're trying to paint this as a non-issue when all sides have agreed that it is an issue worthy of discussion. -
Mono in stereo
I use mono on both my main development platforms, Linux (SUSE) and Windblows,(sorry guys/gals, most my pay comes from M$ clients.)Mono and eclipse are my major Xplatform tools. It is fun to work with mono and I am always looking for more and more functions and libs. Infact I have two sets on each platform, dev and cvs
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Mono in stereo
I use mono on both my main development platforms, Linux (SUSE) and Windblows,(sorry guys/gals, most my pay comes from M$ clients.)Mono and eclipse are my major Xplatform tools. It is fun to work with mono and I am always looking for more and more functions and libs. Infact I have two sets on each platform, dev and cvs