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VS.Net Apps Can Now Run On Linux
MxTxL writes "EWeek is reporting here about a plugin for Visual Studio.Net, called Grasshopper, that allows web applications that once only ran on IIS to be run on Tomcat or other J2EE platforms. The Mainsoft Developer Zone has more details on how it works but basically it converts the MS Intermediate Language into Java bytecode. The developer is also a supporter of the Mono Project."
Considering that, using XSP or mod_mono, it's possible to run ASP.Net web applications on Linux using Mono itself, this is hardly a new development.
.Net applications using VS.Net and run them on Mono (with certain exceptions) for a long time now.
Anyhow, there's no such thing as a "VS.Net App". It's been possible to compile
An employee suggested to me that we use Mono for a few projects here as an evaluation. I was skeptical at first but he explained the benefits of using it for our developers to wean them from Microsoft's glutches. So I decided to let him install Mono onto 5 machines to see how the developers got on. Besides, our IT manager had been using a Mono in his office and it seemed to work fine, why not try it on the employees?
.NET on Windows and the developers could still do their work as normal.
Once he'd got the systems up and running with Mono we let the users try it out. It all seemed fine to start with: Mono was a pretty good replacement for
Alas it did not stay that way. After a few days, I had lost count of the number of complaints received from users who could not find things they were used to or tasks they could not perform that they previously could with the Windows server. The final straw came when one employee lost several hours work when the Mono server suddenly had an error reading from our intranet site and corrupted his project.
Needless to say, the Mono team offered no support whatsoever. I made the employee remove Mono from the offices and lets just say he's not with us anymore.
I'm in the early stages of experimenting with Mono's XSP as a drop-in replacement for ASP.NET. Looks quite promising at this stage, but I've got a lot more testing to do before I'll be turning off banks of Windows/ASP.NET servers and replacing them with Linux/XSP.
Still, nice to know there's an alternative if for some reason XSP doesn't work out.
and why not develop for the *nix in the first place, way much easier to port. .net thing is still overrated
the whole
Was this only to take advantage of already existing VMs to create instantaneous cross platform usability? Are there plans to remove the byte-code to byte-code translation?
When I tell an object to delete this, am I killing it or telling it to kill me?
so the .net is really a java ripoff.
the bytecode maps amazingly well.
+1 obvious
It's all a microsoft conspiracy to prove that linux is the more insecure system - now vulnerable to the vast raft of windows insecurities. Muwhahahaha!!!!
..but wasn't the whole point of dot net platform independence !?!
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Why not just create an open gui standard?
It would not solve all of the problems, or even most, but it would bring systems so much closer.
A blog about stuff.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1819422,00 .asp
Classic ASP apps can run under a .NET enabled server. EWeek should eat they dog food they're writing about.
I think that half-baked solutions like this plugin is a bad idea, at least for code that will land up in production servers. I would prefer a vanilla implementation anyday. By porting a .NET assembly (or IL code) to Java bytecode, i would be unnecessarily increasing the chances of getting wierd or untraceable bugs. Then, there's the question of maintaining the ported code.
.NET to Java. But for an enterprise or complex system, no way!
A better albeit more time-consuming solution would be to rewrite the source code itself. The plugin in question might possibly be of some use if we need to quickly port a small application from
funny, i remember that there was a company named mainsoft which was involved in windows source code leakage ;)
Rich
We've been updating our old asp 3.0 code to asp.net. The big problem we've run into is we want to precompile our asp.net but can't with the 1.1 framework. We can with the beta asp.net 2.0 compiler. It requires the asp.net 2.0 runtime as well and that's not so common. I don't know what Mono's 2.0 support is like, if anything yet, but if I could this tool could help compile the inlined pages as well as "port" it to other platforms that would rule.
.Net app is. I know I have Visual Studio.Net on my work machine, but I've rarely use VS.Net when writing .Net code....
Also the title of this story is incredibly stupid. What the hell is a VS.Net application? I know what a
Linux is really boring from an os standpoint. Now Plan 9......
Firing somebody for trying something new? You will soon have a scared, non-productive staff base.
Timo's Audio Software http://www.esseraudio.com
If I understand TFA correctly and the code for this plugin was developed from mono sources, then isn't it too under the GPL? And isn't distributing only the binary of the plugin without the source code against the GPL? So isn't this company violating the GPL?
- d
EWeek is reporting here about a penguin for Visual Studio.Net, called Grasshopper...
Privacy is terrorism.
He made valid points! He tried Mono and it (as we all know) has a lot of issues especially since its different from .NET which is a moving target.
One of you blaimed the guy for firing the engineer who tried something new which is something he never said!
I've been using Linux since 1995 and in recent years we get all these assholes saying community this and that and loudmouth trolls. He is not one of them, frankly the Linux/OSS movement has gone downhill with Sun bashing and even MS are starting to look good. More so in recent years I notice how XP is getting better while Linux distros are bloating up and becoming unstable...
The parent is not a troll he made a critical remark and those of you who moded him down are facist assholes!
"Small Workgroup Configuration" means a Java-based hardware and software configuration supporting the execution of a Developer Application and limited to (a) Apache Tomcat excluding any other J2EE application servers and (b) single CPU (Central Processing Unit) computers excluding computers with multiple CPUs' and excluding cluster or grid of computers.
You can forget running on your personal multiple cpu development machine, let alone anywhere reasonable, unless you pay the price. It ain't free folks!
I went digging to find the price for deploying it on anything but what they consider a workgroup machine. You'll find that in What are the licensing terms for Grasshopper. Bring lots of money! At least MS gouges me only once.
I believe I'll stick to doing my own porting, thank ye!
"[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
The major strength of VS.NET is in its integrated debugging tools (C++, SQL, ASP(X), JS etc.). Merely converting the bytecode does 10% of the work, debugging (w/other tools) will take the other 90%.
The main reason I could see for doing this is that you can run your app in Weblogic etc. on your Sun servers.
AFAIK There is no support contract available for xsp or mod_mono and that is a big deal for many companies.
No large IT implementation would trust an MSIL to Java byte code conversion. In most cases downtimes are simple un-acceptable. And if one pessimistic guy suggests data corruption they would not even think about it. They might even buy a source code conversion tool (like Microsoft Java to C# converter JLCA), but not converted byte-codes.
.Net projects failing to integrate into their predominantly Java-based applications.
.Net. itself.
.Net applications into Java. They wouldn't care about reliability as long as they make quick money. But then, .Net has been around for relatively short period and hence .Net-Java conversion would be less likely than a Java-.Net conversion.
Again such large clients are most likely to want this tool too, a common case being new
Medium sized companies would most likely run it on
For smaller companies, looking to save money on MS licensing, Mono will be a better alternative since they would not have the integration requirements of the larger companies, which only Java can provide. Mono has been tested more rigorously than this byte-code conversion magic.
Then there are software development companies, looking to port their
So who would try this product, other than purely out of academic interest or curiosity? I have a totally pessimistic view about this product.
Life is just a conviction.
To defend my point, the JVM is undeniably technically inferior to Microsoft's CLR (read 'Technical Overview of the Common Language Runtime' - say what you like about Microsoft, but Erik Meiker is a fine researcher, whom I know from the Haskell community).
Furthermore I've worked with Tomcat for a number of years now (though not with IIS for a while), and it is an appalling and unstable piece of software.
If the moderators choose to judge everything on a political level, so be it, but my point remains, on a technical level (putting aside the political and economic) this is not a move forward...
I think this is the link you meant.
/. ;-)
I was about to be REALLY shocked when I saw your link to a research.micorosoft.com sub-folder on
"reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
Ooops, thanks... 'check your links', right? *blush*
Funding for the project is coming from McAfee and Symantec. Hmmmmm...
(just kidding).
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
Can't open source ever come up with anything on it's own?
A agree. Why not use IKVM to run J2EE and others on the Mono platform instead of the other way around?
Exactly. Since it is mostly well proven that Microsoft has been indirectly funding SCO in some fashion...it isn't a far off idea that they might mimic the same behavior they endorse.
Just MHO.
/* sig */
Off the top of my head I can think of two specific examples that will cause problems, but I'm sure there are many more:
1. Printing the contents of a rich text box.
Microsoft's solution to working around this hole is detailed here. Note how it starts with the line [DllImport("user32.dll")].
2. Clearing the console
Microsoft's recommended way of doing this is detailed here and, once again, imports a windows dll - [DllImport("kernel32.dll", EntryPoint="GetStdHandle", SetLastError=true, CharSet=CharSet.Auto, CallingConvention=CallingConvention.StdCall)]
Best of luck dealing with these cases just using the .net framework!
Input error. Replace user and press any key to continue.
So, a Microsoft study shows that MS software is superior. Color me surprised.
say what you like about Microsoft, but Erik Meiker is a fine researcher, whom I know from the Haskell community).
Java is celebrating 10 years in a couple of weeks. It is a lot easier to make something good when you have all that experience to learn from. I just think they (Hjelsberg, Meiker et al) are shameless whores to claim all the credit themselves when it is such a total ripoff. No matter what good they have done before.
Why? You ask. .NET
Well, off the top of My head i can think of these Reasons:
1. Java and the developnent platform is FREE.
2. Java has an On-Line users manual that is top notch.
3. Java is not Microsoft
4. Java has way better 3rd party SDKs (I.E. eclipse) than
5. Java is not Microsoft
Wow, Java is celebrating ten years? There are two ways to undermine the point that you're trying to make. First, Microsoft have a longer history of developing virtual machines for programming languages (in Visual Basic). Secondly, are you claiming that after ten years it can't be improved on? That's moronic...
Finally, you want to claim Microsoft Research are credit-stealing whores over the Java community? Where do you think the idea of objects supporting multiple interfaces for the purposes of inclusion polymorphism (seperated from the nightmare of multiple inheritance that plagues/criples OO-languages) comes from? Java?
Java owes a lot (beyond even that) to MS Research. Don't judge a company by its Operating Systems division...
Theory-wise you are right. However, Java has a VM implementation with ~10 years of maturity, so your theoretical advantages might not make Java inferior _now_. In theory itanium is not itanic.
In any case, even on that level (and as I said on another branch), Microsoft have the longer experience in VMs - anyone who was using Java right at inception (like me) knows what a huge step forward their JVM was over Sun's original...
Written in TeX, too. Everything goes back to Knuth these days.
In any case, even on that level (and as I said on another branch), Microsoft have the longer experience in VMs - anyone who was using Java right at inception (like me) knows what a huge step forward their JVM was over Sun's original...
Dude, you were doing so well up until that point. Then you had to go and blow it by claiming that Microsoft's JVM was an huge leap forward compared to Sun's JVM.
I mean, come on! You could have strung this troll out a lot longer if you'd just been a bit more subtle.
But no, you had to go and shoot your load too early. Apparently a common condition amongst Slashdot trolls, on-line and off.
Next time try thinking of RMS and counting to a hundred.
More efficient, more stable and having a proper means (higher-level than C/IDL, but not tied to one language) to interface with external software - if you think I'm a troll for actually being there when Java was rolled out, or understanding some of the difference between the JVM and CLR, go ahead...
Yeah... that's just what the world needed...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
FFS, someone must know what an actual troll is around here!
Sure that's a BIG number, but ultimately $5000 is worth 2.5 weeks of my time which is hardly an earth-shattering amount.
I suppose they do price themselves out of the water for smaller apps, but assuming this can run large apps correctly then it could save a LOT of cash.
Now I can run all of the poorly converted Java programs I like back in the Java container again instead of just using the originals! That is awesome!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Granted the grand parent is trolling but holy crap man, way to prove a troll right. Almost everything you just said was a bunch of buzzwords and miss informed incoherent babble. First off, POSIX has nothing to do with weather or not an os is a microkernel or a monolithic kernel. It's a standardized api for unix system calls.
Next up Windows has progressively grown larger and larger since it's release. By your logic it bloated up in 95, shrank in 98 and then it bloated up in both the Me version and 2000 version (which was a completely different os). Internet Explorer wasn't tied to the kernel ever. It was, however, added to the gui api in 98 and then ported over to NT. The kernel can live without IE and it can be removed. It's just not a good idea since a lot of apps use the IE widgets (it is kinda handy at times).
As for Outlook and MSN being tied to the OS to the level that IE is kinda says you know fuck all about Windows. It is possable to remove both Outlook and MSN in Windows without it comeing to a grinding halt.
You may have had an OS class in collage but I seriously hope your professor failed you because you didn't learn a single thing.
Linux is really boring from an os standpoint. Now Plan 9......
Riiight, because Microsoft has so many ex-Smalltalk pople working for it unlike Sun*... Sun knows more about VMs just from Self then Mircosoft ever will.
Java owes nothing to Microsoft Research. Nothing. Your lack of seemingly any context regarding VMs is simple astounding.
Um, Simula way back in 1967.
As for being whores, look at some of the other 'innovations' they have discovered:
Singularity: "safe" C#-based operating system done by a total of over 50 people, with 4 paid full-time for 2 years. DOS interface.
vs.
jxos: "safe" Java-based OS done by a handful of people in basically their spare time. AWT interface with lists, buttons, textboxes, etc. Plays minesweeper.
One of them is a direct rip, apparently from the interview including even the underlying architecture.
* -- that's sarcasm btw.
Correct link for self:
http://research.sun.com/self/
more .NET lameness! =(
the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
"1. Java and the developnent platform is FREE."
.Net platform and command-line tools, btw...
.Net, like it or not.
.Net is M$'s Java libraries and C# their java language...
.NET"
Free as in beer. The same as the
"2. Java has an On-Line users manual that is top notch."
same for
"3. Java is not Microsoft"
Nope. But it should read: "Sun is not M$ ( though they would really love to be )".
Or
"4. Java has way better 3rd party SDKs (I.E. eclipse) than
IDEs are for losers. Gimme a powerful, expressive language ( Python, Ruby, Haskell, Ocaml ), capable of yielding the power of ten java imports in a sentence, and a good text-editor ( XEmacs ) and i'm sold.
I don't feel like it...
run nstruts, nspring, nhibernate etc on tomcat. Seriously though, I applaud their effort from a wow-thats-kind-of-cool standpoint but I can't imagine anyone having a need for this.
With the newer versions of Vignette they supported coding in both ASP and JSP and working within the vignette platform. They might be better now, but when they first added this feature the native Tcl code ran much faster than a template written in ASP or JSP. And if you're writing in ASP or JSP, why bother with vignette? The only thing vignette ever got right was charging a million dollars per installation so that managers would think 'wow, this must be good if it costs so much'.
Vignette was the biggest pain in the butt I ever developed for, though I did like Tcl a lot.
How far away is a converter to bytecode that runs on J2ME? I'd love to target easily developed .NET apps at more reliable mobile devices.
--
make install -not war
Vi and FireFox is all I need for ASP.Net development. Oh and a .Net compatable web server.
.Net, PHP or Prolog. Know the dark secrets of your tools and you could code everything with nothing more than a shell account and an apple II.
;)
Gvim for Windows is my tool of choice, thou some days, when I'm feeling sassy, I use TextPad. People who can only code in an IDE, tend to produce bad code. Don't get me wrong, IDEs have their place, but you don't actually NEED one.
If you don't understand your platform and tools well enough to be able to code with only a text editor then you may not actually know your platform. Doesn't matter if it's
Granted I'm probably preaching to the choir here
At least I hope I am......
I should probably go to bed, post-24 hour codeing sessions make for crappy posts on slashdot.
Linux is really boring from an os standpoint. Now Plan 9......
I guess i am a loser. .net and it comes around bites me in my arse when i look for jobs
i am in love with eclipse.
honestly, ive never worked with
I (probably needlesly)worry that next week microsoft will drop it and go with something copletely new
Free beer is good
Hands up how many of you work for large Enterprises? (You know the ones that are the bread and butter of the technology companies) .NET application, Wintels running .NET applications and App Servers of Some ilk running Java and J2EE applications on various operating systems. And some poor sods (probably you) trying to hold it all together?
.NET framework ones. But to bean counters that doesn't mean squat.
.NET namespaces are implemented in Java by mainsoft, but the majority of the ones for Web Applications and Web Services seem to be. That makes this a real winner in my book.
.NET web applictions with the same simplicity, using proxies, that you can consume Web Services.
Ok. Now, how many of you have mixed deployments? You know, Wintels running pre
Ok. Good. Now, I'm not sure how many still have their hands up, but in my travels I have encountered *lots* of Enterprises with such data centers.
Ok, now, how many of you are development managers? Probably not so many. Well, I have been one, and I have known many, and I can say with almost 100% certainty that those who managed groups of junior to mid level devs, building web applications using VS.NET finished more projects, on time and under budget than those that didn't. Fact. You might think that 'real' developers don't use IDE's, and I applaud you that don't, but the fact is the majority of developers who get paid to program do use IDE's and without doubt the most productive ones have been using VS.NET and its predeccessors. Lots of people love Eclipse et al, but, show me a person who can write 500 function points a month in Eclipse and I will show you a VS.NET who can be equally productive, but cost the employer half as much.
Sure J2EE runtime characteristics are *much* better than the
So now, these guys, Mainsoft come up with a way to have those same junior developers run the same applications, in many cases without modification, on the J2EE platform.
And this is a bad thing?
And once it is on J2EE, it can run on Linux too.
And this is a bad thing?
Skepticism is healthy, but only if tempered by fact. For you guys who are knocking this, do yourself a favor -- download it and try it out. It's great.
Now if only they supported the Windows Forms workspace, then I could look at migrating client apps as well as web apps and web services....surely there is no better way of migrating that using something like this? Despite the similarities between C# and Java on the surface, the language isn't as important as the class libraries that support that language. Not all
I reviewed this product for devx.com some time ago (a previous version of the product), and have to say I found the experience VERY positive, in particular the facility to consume EJBs in
http://www.devx.com/dotnet/Article/20540/0
http://www.devx.com/dotnet/Article/20866/0
Thumbs way up!
Laurence
I thought he was talking of Java the Language, as that's what the article is all about (Java bytecode).
Bytecode is platform, not language. All these languages can be compiled to MSIL (.NET bytecode). Likewise, all these languages can be compiled to bytecode for a JVM.
Why the hell bother with VB.NET?????!
Meh.
"Free beer is good"
Yes, but it's better when you get the recipe to do it and possibly improve it yourself.
I don't feel like it...
You're stupid. There are several JVMs that are faster than Microsoft's CLR. The paper you cite only states that the CLR supports more kinds of programming languages cleanly, not that it is a superior platform.
Something tells me that you don't even really know what a virtual machine is, or how it's defined... but I'm stupid so what do I know?
The minute you're able to provide that Simula reference (to the support of multiple sub-typable pure interfaces in objects, and references polymorphically typed according to these interfaces) I'll be happy to go check it upstairs with my examiner, Graham Birtwistle (the author of the original book on Simula... obviously we can't go to Nygaard, but I'm sure you were also at his tribute in Oslo last year).
And here the British were supposed be good with sarcasm, but the point that interfaces in OOP have been done since time immemorial obviously escaped you. Regardless, it certainly is possible to have interfaces in Simula, by grouping the interface methods into a Class, having the interface class as an attribute on each Class "implementing" that interface, and delegating the instance methods to the enclosing class methods. Then you can test for implementation of the interface, access methods on the interface without knowing the concrete type or supertype(s) of the object, and it is inherited to subclasses.
I should hope your experts could come up with better ways to implement interfaces in Simula. In any case, the idea that Microsoft Research invented interfaces and that's where Java got them is simply wrong on any number of counts.
Finally, I don't think either approach (COM or Java) is thorough, in any case, and prefer the notion of 'type classes' from Blott's thesis, as implemented in Haskell. I just think MS Research deserves a little credit (for COM and for the CLR at least).
0x: In any case, the idea that Microsoft Research invented interfaces and that's where Java got them is simply wrong on any number of counts.
...
Bn: Who said that? Me?
Bn: Finally, you want to claim Microsoft Research are credit-stealing whores over the Java community? Where do you think the idea of objects supporting multiple interfaces for the purposes of inclusion polymorphism (seperated from the nightmare of multiple inheritance that plagues/criples OO-languages) comes from? Java?
Java owes a lot (beyond even that) to MS Research.
So, you both implied that Microsoft originated interfaces and asserted it. And you are simply wrong about it.
COM is a piece of poo rip off with interfaces, delegation, and thikly caked layers of crud calling itself OOP; like Windows, Microsoft popularized it. Harldy something to be proud of IMO.
I remain of the opinion that Microsoft popularised the idea of first class interfaces, that that was a good thing and that that had an influence on the design of Java...
To be clear, what I was saying was that that seems to be where Sun got the idea - nothing you've said has convinced me otherwise.
In particular, can you point me at any reference to this as a (pre-Gamma) 'design pattern' (i.e. documented idiom) in any sufficiently expressive language (since you seem to have given up with Simula)?
Brocksmidt's book was my first exposure to this (in multiple inheritance C++). Such a thing might have been common practice in Objective C or Smalltalk, but if so no one has been able to show it to me in black and white...
First off, COM wasn't a "sufficiently expressive language" since it was a bunch of macros and conventions on top of C/C++, which puts it into the same camp as interfaces in Simula. Second, if you refuse to believe the Java developers themselves and take into account their extensive background in Smalltalk and Obj C and instead believe they ripped it from COM of all things because, well, that's just what you believe then that's pretty lame.
asAnInterface: ^self
-- (c) 1991 Microsoft Corporation. Patent pending
My friend and i really tried to brew our own beer a couple of times, it would have been really good too.. except for the aftertaste of feet.
I think we used too much hopps, or the ph was funny in our water supply.
I have already acknowledged, and never denied, that Java takes on board Smalltalk and Objective C, but you have been unable to prove that polymorphic typing through pure interfaces was an idiom in those languages, and you were plain wrong about Simula.
If you want to continue to ignore what I'm saying and talk in circles, free feel, but for me this conversation is over until you can back up a single thing you say...
Java and JSP came first. So I'm not sure why companies that CHOSE
I agree with the mono angle. If they want to run on Linux. Just run MONO.
The ONLY angle I can see is project/application integration between JSP and ASP.net.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
...
.net over Java because it's just plain EASIER.
Java is not open source, so you don't have the recipe.
There is enough information out there to reconstruct EITHER platform in an open source project.
I prefer
Java does have more cross platform support. But when 90% of the computers out there are Windows, it really doesn't matter much.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
...
If printf() was sufficient, gdb and every other debugger would never have been developed.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
The only CASE tool ever developed worth ANY money was the IDE. Code is design. Rapid prototyping and development is design. Rose is garbage that distracts from the real work of developing ideas by rapid prototyping.
Visual Studio, Visual Age, CodeWright, Visual SlickEdit, you take your pick. Put documentation, compilation, debugging, file management and version control all together and that is what will make people more productive.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Well, technically it's 10 years for Java as a TOY. It's only about 5-6 years for Java as a tool that actually accomplishes something.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Well, I do think that Microsoft did invest a buttload of money into a certain interpreted langauge called Visual Basic. No it's not a virtual machine. But if you're only using one language, you don't exactly need p-code, do you????
BTW, I hate VB because it's an ugly language. But you have to admit that Microsoft made a huge commercial success out of a programming environment that didn't run compiled code. VB was a successfull and USEFUL product running live in businesses LONG before someone figured out how to turn the fun, smart, innovative and mostly useless Java toy into a real tool.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Well, C# is a more advanced language to begin with. It has more features. It's designers weren't so uptite with telling you HOW to program so much as they were in getting tools to you.
Some of the COOLEST stuff in C# is the attributes which allows the IDE and code to integrate in some pretty amazing ways.
It's all a matter of personal preference. I think C# is VERY cool. I think it's WAY easier to work with than Java and it certainly requires less typing to do some pretty simple tasks.
No doubt that Java is more "cross-platform". You have way more Java target OSs than for
Just remember that cross platform is almost NEVER magic. Real applications carry baggage with them that carry potential pitfalls. I have yet to see shrinkwrapped Java software on the store shelf meant to be installed generically across Mac/Wintel/Sun/Linux/HP.
The ultimate irony is that Java was designed to be a "client side" language running interactive content through a we browser. That never happened. Flash and Shockwave happened.
As cool as write once, run everywhere sounds, in the real world there is really very little need for it.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Amen to that.
:)
Most of the time I've seen modelling tools used (like Rational Rose etc.) has either been on a job interview, or after the fact. You know, app is built, ready to be deployed, and to keep ops or CTO happy you need a well modelled architecture
The real productivity is IDE based. I've worked with large and diverse groups, and the winner in IDE productivity, for the 'average' developer, has been hands down VS.NET. Followed by Weblogic Workshop and Oracle JDeveloper.
That is what is so attractive about this product from Mainsoft. You can get your 'morts' to build apps that run on J2EE, taking advantage of this superior runtime platform, without training them for J2EE. Huge productivity boost. And with all the jobs that are being outsourced to India and the rest of the far east, productivity gains by domestic workers cannot be a bad thing, can it?
Laurence
if you are going to adapt a troll at least do it properly
/. standads that is terriblly poor grammer and fairly obviously the result of a search/replace.
"Besides, our IT manager had been using a Mono in his office"
even by
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register