Domain: mozilla.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to mozilla.org.
Comments · 17,579
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Repost with working links (I hope)
Darn, Slashdot doesn't like title attributes in links
:( Repost with good links
So the Mozilla developers are hoping to get more bug-fixing help from the Mozilla and Open Source communities by making it easier for people to write and submit bug-fix patches.
He actually got something right! It's not just developers hoping to get more bug-fixing help though. The Mozilla QA and testing community can use help as well. Gerv (creator of the Patch Maker) is also the maintainer of the Bugzilla Helper which, like the patch maker, was created to make it easier for people to contribute to the Mozilla project. If you're interested in helping to make Mozilla better and you've got DTML skills then you can probably help clean up the Mozilla UI with Gerv's Patch Maker. If you're interested in helping but aren't interested in development there are plenty of other ways to get involved.
--Asa -
Repost with working links (I hope)
Darn, Slashdot doesn't like title attributes in links
:( Repost with good links
So the Mozilla developers are hoping to get more bug-fixing help from the Mozilla and Open Source communities by making it easier for people to write and submit bug-fix patches.
He actually got something right! It's not just developers hoping to get more bug-fixing help though. The Mozilla QA and testing community can use help as well. Gerv (creator of the Patch Maker) is also the maintainer of the Bugzilla Helper which, like the patch maker, was created to make it easier for people to contribute to the Mozilla project. If you're interested in helping to make Mozilla better and you've got DTML skills then you can probably help clean up the Mozilla UI with Gerv's Patch Maker. If you're interested in helping but aren't interested in development there are plenty of other ways to get involved.
--Asa -
Cool. I found something accurate in a MQ article!!
So the Mozilla developers are hoping to get more bug-fixing help from the Mozilla and Open Source communities by making it easier for people to write and submit bug-fix patches.
He actually got something right! It's not just developers hoping to get more bug-fixing help though. The Mozilla QA and testing community can use help as well. Gerv (creator of the Patch Maker) is also the maintainer of the Bugzilla Helper which, like the patch maker, was created to make it easier for people to contribute to the Mozilla project. If you're interested in helping to make Mozilla better and you've got DTML skills then you can probably help clean up the Mozilla UI with Gerv's Patch Maker. If you're interested in helping but aren't interested in development there are plenty of other ways to get involved.
--Asa -
Cool. I found something accurate in a MQ article!!
So the Mozilla developers are hoping to get more bug-fixing help from the Mozilla and Open Source communities by making it easier for people to write and submit bug-fix patches.
He actually got something right! It's not just developers hoping to get more bug-fixing help though. The Mozilla QA and testing community can use help as well. Gerv (creator of the Patch Maker) is also the maintainer of the Bugzilla Helper which, like the patch maker, was created to make it easier for people to contribute to the Mozilla project. If you're interested in helping to make Mozilla better and you've got DTML skills then you can probably help clean up the Mozilla UI with Gerv's Patch Maker. If you're interested in helping but aren't interested in development there are plenty of other ways to get involved.
--Asa -
Cool. I found something accurate in a MQ article!!
So the Mozilla developers are hoping to get more bug-fixing help from the Mozilla and Open Source communities by making it easier for people to write and submit bug-fix patches.
He actually got something right! It's not just developers hoping to get more bug-fixing help though. The Mozilla QA and testing community can use help as well. Gerv (creator of the Patch Maker) is also the maintainer of the Bugzilla Helper which, like the patch maker, was created to make it easier for people to contribute to the Mozilla project. If you're interested in helping to make Mozilla better and you've got DTML skills then you can probably help clean up the Mozilla UI with Gerv's Patch Maker. If you're interested in helping but aren't interested in development there are plenty of other ways to get involved.
--Asa -
Re:WILL YOU SLASHDOT GUYS LEARN???
exibit A:
The impetus for creating Patch Maker seems to lie in the fact that Mozilla bugs are raging out of control.
Mozquest is a load of shit, wht's this guy's motivation with giving bad information about the Mozilla project? is it personal? is there some kind of corporate interest involved? Patchmaker is a great project and should make things easier for developing Mozilla UI. how abolut this link to the project itself:
patchmaker page
or the discussion on mozilla zine site
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Re:YES, please: more ways to browse with the keyboBut in browsers there's another level of unpredictability that is a pain. You never know where the next tab is going to leave you. Could be any number of input forms, or a URL, or maybe you didn't realize it and your focus isn't on the page... it makes navigation with a keyboard near-impossible.
Here are some ideas that might help:
- bug 66285 use a different shortcut to navigate tabs and to navigate links
- bug 67684 directional keyboard navigation: instead using Tab for "go to next focusable element", you could use Alt+Shift+right for "go to closest focusable element to the right".
- Web pages should use accesskeys more often. For example, on msn, you can press Alt+S to jump to the search field. Removing the search menu (bug 67414) from Mozilla would make it easier for page authors to use the Alt+S shortcut, giving accesskeys a much higher chance of becoming ubiquitous.
- bug 37638 the URL bar has initial focus too often (for example, when you start the browser). It's usually better for the page in the content area to have focus, so the user can scroll the page using the keyboard. Worse, accesskeys stop working (bug 64606) when the location bar has focus
- bug 66597 after searching the page, Tab should go to an element after the beginning of the selection rather than the first element on the page. Combined with inline search (find-as-you-type, with no dialog), this would make it easier to jump to links.
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Re:YES, please: more ways to browse with the keyboBut in browsers there's another level of unpredictability that is a pain. You never know where the next tab is going to leave you. Could be any number of input forms, or a URL, or maybe you didn't realize it and your focus isn't on the page... it makes navigation with a keyboard near-impossible.
Here are some ideas that might help:
- bug 66285 use a different shortcut to navigate tabs and to navigate links
- bug 67684 directional keyboard navigation: instead using Tab for "go to next focusable element", you could use Alt+Shift+right for "go to closest focusable element to the right".
- Web pages should use accesskeys more often. For example, on msn, you can press Alt+S to jump to the search field. Removing the search menu (bug 67414) from Mozilla would make it easier for page authors to use the Alt+S shortcut, giving accesskeys a much higher chance of becoming ubiquitous.
- bug 37638 the URL bar has initial focus too often (for example, when you start the browser). It's usually better for the page in the content area to have focus, so the user can scroll the page using the keyboard. Worse, accesskeys stop working (bug 64606) when the location bar has focus
- bug 66597 after searching the page, Tab should go to an element after the beginning of the selection rather than the first element on the page. Combined with inline search (find-as-you-type, with no dialog), this would make it easier to jump to links.
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Re:YES, please: more ways to browse with the keyboBut in browsers there's another level of unpredictability that is a pain. You never know where the next tab is going to leave you. Could be any number of input forms, or a URL, or maybe you didn't realize it and your focus isn't on the page... it makes navigation with a keyboard near-impossible.
Here are some ideas that might help:
- bug 66285 use a different shortcut to navigate tabs and to navigate links
- bug 67684 directional keyboard navigation: instead using Tab for "go to next focusable element", you could use Alt+Shift+right for "go to closest focusable element to the right".
- Web pages should use accesskeys more often. For example, on msn, you can press Alt+S to jump to the search field. Removing the search menu (bug 67414) from Mozilla would make it easier for page authors to use the Alt+S shortcut, giving accesskeys a much higher chance of becoming ubiquitous.
- bug 37638 the URL bar has initial focus too often (for example, when you start the browser). It's usually better for the page in the content area to have focus, so the user can scroll the page using the keyboard. Worse, accesskeys stop working (bug 64606) when the location bar has focus
- bug 66597 after searching the page, Tab should go to an element after the beginning of the selection rather than the first element on the page. Combined with inline search (find-as-you-type, with no dialog), this would make it easier to jump to links.
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Re:YES, please: more ways to browse with the keyboBut in browsers there's another level of unpredictability that is a pain. You never know where the next tab is going to leave you. Could be any number of input forms, or a URL, or maybe you didn't realize it and your focus isn't on the page... it makes navigation with a keyboard near-impossible.
Here are some ideas that might help:
- bug 66285 use a different shortcut to navigate tabs and to navigate links
- bug 67684 directional keyboard navigation: instead using Tab for "go to next focusable element", you could use Alt+Shift+right for "go to closest focusable element to the right".
- Web pages should use accesskeys more often. For example, on msn, you can press Alt+S to jump to the search field. Removing the search menu (bug 67414) from Mozilla would make it easier for page authors to use the Alt+S shortcut, giving accesskeys a much higher chance of becoming ubiquitous.
- bug 37638 the URL bar has initial focus too often (for example, when you start the browser). It's usually better for the page in the content area to have focus, so the user can scroll the page using the keyboard. Worse, accesskeys stop working (bug 64606) when the location bar has focus
- bug 66597 after searching the page, Tab should go to an element after the beginning of the selection rather than the first element on the page. Combined with inline search (find-as-you-type, with no dialog), this would make it easier to jump to links.
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Re:YES, please: more ways to browse with the keyboBut in browsers there's another level of unpredictability that is a pain. You never know where the next tab is going to leave you. Could be any number of input forms, or a URL, or maybe you didn't realize it and your focus isn't on the page... it makes navigation with a keyboard near-impossible.
Here are some ideas that might help:
- bug 66285 use a different shortcut to navigate tabs and to navigate links
- bug 67684 directional keyboard navigation: instead using Tab for "go to next focusable element", you could use Alt+Shift+right for "go to closest focusable element to the right".
- Web pages should use accesskeys more often. For example, on msn, you can press Alt+S to jump to the search field. Removing the search menu (bug 67414) from Mozilla would make it easier for page authors to use the Alt+S shortcut, giving accesskeys a much higher chance of becoming ubiquitous.
- bug 37638 the URL bar has initial focus too often (for example, when you start the browser). It's usually better for the page in the content area to have focus, so the user can scroll the page using the keyboard. Worse, accesskeys stop working (bug 64606) when the location bar has focus
- bug 66597 after searching the page, Tab should go to an element after the beginning of the selection rather than the first element on the page. Combined with inline search (find-as-you-type, with no dialog), this would make it easier to jump to links.
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Re:YES, please: more ways to browse with the keyboBut in browsers there's another level of unpredictability that is a pain. You never know where the next tab is going to leave you. Could be any number of input forms, or a URL, or maybe you didn't realize it and your focus isn't on the page... it makes navigation with a keyboard near-impossible.
Here are some ideas that might help:
- bug 66285 use a different shortcut to navigate tabs and to navigate links
- bug 67684 directional keyboard navigation: instead using Tab for "go to next focusable element", you could use Alt+Shift+right for "go to closest focusable element to the right".
- Web pages should use accesskeys more often. For example, on msn, you can press Alt+S to jump to the search field. Removing the search menu (bug 67414) from Mozilla would make it easier for page authors to use the Alt+S shortcut, giving accesskeys a much higher chance of becoming ubiquitous.
- bug 37638 the URL bar has initial focus too often (for example, when you start the browser). It's usually better for the page in the content area to have focus, so the user can scroll the page using the keyboard. Worse, accesskeys stop working (bug 64606) when the location bar has focus
- bug 66597 after searching the page, Tab should go to an element after the beginning of the selection rather than the first element on the page. Combined with inline search (find-as-you-type, with no dialog), this would make it easier to jump to links.
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A list of gestures in Opera...
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Re:Slashdot to thank
Wouldn't that be "Slashdot to blame"?
:)
Anyway, since mozilla.org is in a feature adding move, and we've got the opportunity to pimp a little, go and vote for Alt mail support or Here -- this will allow Mozilla to play nice with the mailer/newsreader of your choice instead of assuming you want Messenger. -
Re:Slashdot to thank
Wouldn't that be "Slashdot to blame"?
:)
Anyway, since mozilla.org is in a feature adding move, and we've got the opportunity to pimp a little, go and vote for Alt mail support or Here -- this will allow Mozilla to play nice with the mailer/newsreader of your choice instead of assuming you want Messenger. -
Re:This is really cool!
I'm curious. What's wrong with context menus?
The problem with context menus, especially since they activate on mousedown-then-mouseup (instead of just mousedown) is that they offer no muscle memory. With Netscape 4.x, for instance, the context menu activated on mousedown. That allowed such movements as mousedown - drag right - select Back - release button, all in one stroke. Now, with the contextmenu activating on mouseup (after mousedown), muscle memory no longer comes into play.
But, that's where mouse gestures come in. Sure, it may take a few minutes to learn. But, after a while, it's all second nature and you don't even need to think about it -- just like how copy-n-pasting is probably effortless to you since "your fingers" know all the right keys to press without you having to consciously think about it. -
Re:how about additional mouse buttons ?In IE the 4th button is the Page back feature
.. this is WAY more convinient than every possible guesture, just press ur thumb , and page back.
That specific functionality is bug 30431. Feel free to vote for it if that issue is important to you. In the meantime, there are still ways in which you can make use of those extra buttons:- First, configure at least one of the side-buttons to Ctrl
- Then, goto Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Mouse Wheel.
- Select "Ctrl" from the pull-down and set the radio button to "Move back and forward in the browsing history".
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Re:how about additional mouse buttons ?In IE the 4th button is the Page back feature
.. this is WAY more convinient than every possible guesture, just press ur thumb , and page back.
That specific functionality is bug 30431. Feel free to vote for it if that issue is important to you. In the meantime, there are still ways in which you can make use of those extra buttons:- First, configure at least one of the side-buttons to Ctrl
- Then, goto Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Mouse Wheel.
- Select "Ctrl" from the pull-down and set the radio button to "Move back and forward in the browsing history".
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Re:how about additional mouse buttons ?In IE the 4th button is the Page back feature
.. this is WAY more convinient than every possible guesture, just press ur thumb , and page back.
That specific functionality is bug 30431. Feel free to vote for it if that issue is important to you. In the meantime, there are still ways in which you can make use of those extra buttons:- First, configure at least one of the side-buttons to Ctrl
- Then, goto Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Mouse Wheel.
- Select "Ctrl" from the pull-down and set the radio button to "Move back and forward in the browsing history".
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Re:XPI?
XPI ('Zippy') is mozilla lingo for 'Cross Platform Installer' or something like that. XPI files are to mozilla what deb files are to Debian, or RPM's to RedHat. They are actually jar files (you know, Java Archives, which in turn are really zip-files with a twist) with an install script and a description of the contents of the archive in RDF format. More on this can be found on the mozilla website
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Slashdot to thank
In a way, Slashdot is to thank for this. Back when Mozilla 0.9.2 was released, there was a +5 comment on the possibility of Opera-like gestures. That led people to read about gestures in bug 76537 and, from there, the community stepped up to the plate (specifically, Andy Edmonds). Nice.
Now, if only we could work together and get some working spellchecking for Mozilla :). -
Slashdot to thank
In a way, Slashdot is to thank for this. Back when Mozilla 0.9.2 was released, there was a +5 comment on the possibility of Opera-like gestures. That led people to read about gestures in bug 76537 and, from there, the community stepped up to the plate (specifically, Andy Edmonds). Nice.
Now, if only we could work together and get some working spellchecking for Mozilla :). -
Quality Assurance
QA isn't what it used to be. It should have been sent back for fixing. Or perhaps they need Ian Hixie to keep them in check and have it ship when it is worthy of being called a program.
Come on, sure there is a limit on time, but what is wrong with leaving a cake in the oven until it has finished cooking?
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Re:Preferences
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Re:Fix this At BrowserYour choices are "Run All" or "Run None".
Not so anymore:mozilla.org today released Mozilla Milestone 0.9.4. New to this release is the ability to disable the JavaScript window.open() method during page load and unload events.
Been using this feature for almost a month (Well, since 0.9.4 came out) and it works perfectly, no sites that I've gone to have been broken, and no pop-ups! -
Re:Fix this At BrowserYour choices are "Run All" or "Run None".
Not so anymore:mozilla.org today released Mozilla Milestone 0.9.4. New to this release is the ability to disable the JavaScript window.open() method during page load and unload events.
Been using this feature for almost a month (Well, since 0.9.4 came out) and it works perfectly, no sites that I've gone to have been broken, and no pop-ups! -
trying to exit the browser doesn't always work
when the user visits these sites, their back button behavior in most popular browsers is modified as to open multiple pop-ups featuring ads for adult entertainment and gambling sites when pressed, and uses other technology to basically 'trap' the browser until the entire application has to be closed.
Worse, recent Mozilla builds won't even leave pop-up hell using the Exit command if you've enabled the Quick Launch feature. I have filed bug 98923 about this problem. (I used a trick someone mentioned here to disable pop-up ads, so I don't encounter this bug often.) -
Re:Why does the govt. have to regulate this?
Had Microsoft done it, people would have complained about how they were ignoring standards and dictating standards.
I doubt it. The W3C pays very little attention to privacy and security in most of their recommendations. The fact that web sites aren't allowed to look into an <iframe src="http://www.amazon.com"> and pull out your name from the "welcome" message is not standardized anywhere, and in fact each browser has slightly different rules about what things you can pull out of and push into frames whose content is from another web site.
The W3C's ignoring security has also led to some holes that affect multiple browsers, such as web sites being able to find out whether a link is marked as visited using CSS. Yes, your boss could point you to a web site that creates invisible links to the last 200 slashdot stories, quietly counts the number that are marked as visited, and reports back to your boss how much /. you've been reading at work lately. -
Re:Fix this At Browser
There are no user-visible options for what web sites are allowed to do in Mozilla, so I don't find it surprising that users complain that they're given an all-or-none choice.
You can get some documentation on Mozilla's configurable security policies here, and you can also test the new hidden pref to prevent web pages from opening new windows while they are loading or while the user is leaving the page. Note that the new hidden pref is still buggy: it catches some things it shouldn't, such as clicking a javascript: link in a page while the page is still loading, and fails to catch cases like onmouseover and onfocus. -
Re:Fix this At Browser
There are no user-visible options for what web sites are allowed to do in Mozilla, so I don't find it surprising that users complain that they're given an all-or-none choice.
You can get some documentation on Mozilla's configurable security policies here, and you can also test the new hidden pref to prevent web pages from opening new windows while they are loading or while the user is leaving the page. Note that the new hidden pref is still buggy: it catches some things it shouldn't, such as clicking a javascript: link in a page while the page is still loading, and fails to catch cases like onmouseover and onfocus. -
Re:Omniweb baby!
Give Mozilla a try. It has the same ability to disable pop-up windows from other domains, as well as some other options. The settings aren't available in the GUI, but the mozilla.org site has complete instructions for how to enable the feature here and here. I've also had really good luck with using Mozilla on commercial sites to do my banking and what-not.
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Re:Omniweb baby!
Give Mozilla a try. It has the same ability to disable pop-up windows from other domains, as well as some other options. The settings aren't available in the GUI, but the mozilla.org site has complete instructions for how to enable the feature here and here. I've also had really good luck with using Mozilla on commercial sites to do my banking and what-not.
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Re:Omniweb baby!
Give Mozilla a try. It has the same ability to disable pop-up windows from other domains, as well as some other options. The settings aren't available in the GUI, but the mozilla.org site has complete instructions for how to enable the feature here and here. I've also had really good luck with using Mozilla on commercial sites to do my banking and what-not.
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Stupid
To everyone who thinks this is a good thing for the government to be envolved in: "Get a real browser!". For a couple versions now Mozilla has had the ability to disable the JavaScript functions that can open windows. It's currently not available from the GUI, but they have complete instructions for how to edit the config file to disable pop-ups. I use it and love it. Take responsibility for your own browsing.
I doubt you will ever see this sort of feature in a non-Free browser, because corporate interests would not permit them to add it. Microsoft probably owns some of the sites that annoy us with pop-ups. Think about it. -
Re:disabling intrusive scriptsWhen oh when are we going to see the ability to disable pop-ups & other intrusive/obnoxious script actions like this?
As soon as you upgrade to Mozilla 0.9.4.
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Re:another step towards the ruin of the web."Doesn't Mozilla have a nice feature to disable the document.open() method in javascript?"
Yes, which is why Mozilla has become my browser of choice. I use it not for the pr0n sites (surprisingly) but the majority of 'legitimate' sites that believe that annoying their users w/ pop-ups is a good idea.
The feature that you speak of can be found HERE. You might also want to take a look at the Configurable Security Policies for Mozilla. These features are nice, but the only drawback is that there isn't a good GUI to add/remove sites from your blocklist.
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Re:What makes banner different from paper ads?
Which begs the question, why doesn't Mozilla have this feature? At least, I haven't been able to find it. There has been NO time in the past 5 years I have ever had a reason to view an animated GIF. They've all been advertisements.
Edit, Preferences, Privacy and Security, Images. See Bug 90837 for discussion about moving the pref out of the Privacy and Security branch to a place where it will be easier to find. -
Re:Arms race prediction
Possible problem: are there any browsers that cannot request the ad image while the main content page is stalled? i.e. non multi-threaded?
That doesn't have anything to do with multi-threadedness. Many browsers have a limit on the number of simlutaneous requests per hostname or per window in order to reduce network congestion. In particular, both Internet Explorer and Mozilla limit the number of persistent HTTP connections to a given server to two, based on this recommendation in RFC 2616: "A single-user client [that uses persistent connections] SHOULD NOT maintain more than 2 connections with any server or proxy." (See this bugzilla entry for discussion about how many connections Mozilla should maintain with each web server.)
If several image tags come before the iframe tag, the page will not finish loading until those other connections time out. The same will happen if a browser intelligently decides to download images in the main content before it downloads images in iframes (this may happen anyway, if the HTML of the main content loads before the HTML of the iframe). -
Killer 3rd party tools make CVS invaluable
The Apache project has created many scripts for use with CVS which helps out a lot with the types of things you describe. To get some of these tasty treats check out their cvs web interface, or check out their CVSROOT module directly. I believe they encourage people to use these scripts (it is Apache, after all
:)Apache provides:
- Access Control Lists
- Commit Message Mailing System
Also, like someone else mentioned, Mozilla.org has developed some killer online tools for managing source code with CVS. You get things like:
- LXR - a "massively-hyperlinked source code browser that lets you cross-reference function and variable names"
- Bonsai - a tree control "tool for watching up-to-the-minute goings-on" in CVS and "viewing checkins and log messages, reading diffs, etc."
- Other tools like Tinderbox and Bugzilla
--Micko
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Re:So what exactly does Apple want?
the choice is clear: many people voluntarily pick different UI styles on any platform--otherwise, WinAmp, QuickTime4, Kai's tools, etc. wouldn't have succeeded.
All the applications you mentioned are "creative" applications in one form or another (media players, image manipulators). Skinning is an accepted method of bringing forth this creative side. Even Windows XP has acknowledged the usefulness of skinning with its new Visual Styles. However, if you look at productivity-type applications (office suites, text editors, fax apps, etc), you'll notice that most do not deviate significantly from the published guidelines for their target OS, and those that do fail miserably (IBM had a suite of apps that had "real-life" skins, like a fax app that looked like a fax machine, a phone that looked like a phone, a PIM that looked like a day planner, and so on. The suite failed because the interface was awful. The metaphor of the real object did not carry over to the application).
The important thing to get from this is that Mozilla is not a media player, or a fanciful image manipulator. It's a productivity tool, and differentiates its UI for no other reason than simply to be different. The code had to go into the XUL backend to support each OS anyway, why not simply make it a light wrapper around various toolkits (win32, aqua/carbon, gtk, qt, whatever) and gain the benefits (performance, consistency) of native widgets? There's a bug in Mozilla right now that is a direct result of their decision. And unless I'm mistaken, there are only two solutions to the bug -- 1) duplicate the behavior inside the mozilla code itself, in which case you run the risk of being inconsistent if the native widget behavior changes; or 2) wrap the native widgets (with owner-drawn code, for instance, if you must have themes). I'm obviously ignoring the, "Don't worry about it," response, and it's pretty unlikely that response 2 will happen at this late stage, so expect more bloat and future inconsistencies.
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Re:So what exactly does Apple want?I used Mozilla on a Mac a while ago and I swear (much to my surprise) that it was using native widgets. Of course, it uses native menus, but the buttons and scrollbars seemed to be native as well, I played with the system configuration and the changes (like for scroll bar button configuration) seemed to be reflected in Mozilla. If this is the case, it should be easy to use native Aqua controls. Can somebody with a Mac confirm this?
It's quite possible, yes. Apple have done a pretty good job of making Carbon compliant apps take on the Aqua look automajically. If you are interested there is a good link about Mozilla on OSX here.
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Code exists to do this in the mozilla treeMac OS will create a button for you, if you ask it, but, like most modern OSes it will also just "draw" a button without any of the logic behind it, there is an API for that sort of thing.
So you get the look of a button without any of the native widget.
I once spent some time with a guy at netscape implementing a new protocol which basically took advantage of that.
You wrote something like:
theme://button?title=OK
and it returned a GIF containing a perfect looking OK button in the present Mac OS theme, be that Platinum on OS 9 or Aqua on OS X.
The code to do this is here:
http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/netwerk/prot ocol/theme/Finshing this work would allow very high quality Aqua themes, as it wouldn't be "as" emulated. The OS would be drawing all of the controls.
This would also satisfy Apple - they don't really care about Aqua themes so much as making sure those themes *only* work on Mac OS. As the theme: protocol needs native code to work, it will only run on Mac OS (9 or X)
The theme protocol might also be needed on Linux (window manager theme support) and to do Windows XP properly.
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Re:They want to see Mozilla running on OS X
They want to see Mozilla running on OS X. That's why they don't care about an Aqua theme for Mozilla.
Mozilla runs well on OS X. It's called Fizzilla and you can get nightly and Milestone testing binaries with the rest of the Mozilla builds at http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/
--Asa -
Re:sigh
Actually I meant to link to this bug above, but the one I linked to is relevant as well. These feature requests are the way to make Fizilla more "Mac" like, not some hack theme.
- j -
Re:sigh
I just wish they would let a Mac port of Mozilla have a Mac look.
Oh give me a break. If there's that much demand for an Aqua look-and-feel "theme" for Mozilla then somebody will put in the time to add native Quartz calls to Mozilla. Adding a silly "theme" is not the way to do this when it's on the native platform of Aqua. Besides, how would you do transparencies with a theme? An Aqua "theme" would be a hack for these purposes.
If Mozilla were changed to use native aqua screen widgets, then the only thing needed to make it look like it "fits in" is a very simple theme for the menubar buttons -- a theme that Apple wouldn't complain about at all and it would be 100% original artwork.
- j -
another vote for perforce, with some history
I recently had the job of evaluating what SCM system to use for our company. We were using CVS at the time.
I believe that the complaints your bosses have about logging and concurrent editing can all be fairly easily fixed in CVS.
The major gripes we had with CVS were:
. slow (see below)
. merging between branches was miserable, because the system didn't keep track of what had already been merged
. renaming files lost all the history
. windows interface was cumbersome
We actually worked with a system layered on top of CVS that allowed us to submit batches of files at once, in a single transaction. This was the major cause of slowness, and CVS didn't really support transactions, so in some sense we were just fooling ourselves. The other major cause was doing a 'cvs update' on a large tree could be slow.
Most of the problems we had could've been fixed
if we spent the time to fix it. Some (transactions, renaming) we couldn't really fix at all. But, when I looked at everything I wanted to fix in CVS, I found that I had just described Perforce's feature set, and when I looked at how they implemented things, they did it like I would've. Plus, comparing the cost of Perforce (relatively cheap) to the time it would've taken us to implement the same features ...
So, we switched to Perforce, and I've been (more or less) happy since. The branching structure is a little weird (compared to ClearCase's, which is the most intuitive I've seen), but we're learning to live with it.
At a previous company, we used ClearCase. This was also a fine product, and it does a few things that no other product does, but it's very expensive, and a major hassle to administer.
ClearCase (at least in the mode we used) implements its own filesystem, and can provide a level of security that the others just can't. But, is this worth paying 10+ times the amount for it?
I also looked at AccuRev. This was about on a par with Perforce, and had one or two features that looked really cool. But, in the end, Perforce won mostly because we went with the product that had bigger market share and more people had used it before.
VSS wasn't an option because we're a mostly linux based shop, and because I had heard many of the complaints that others are making as well.
PVCS I think is mostly an also-ran in this day and age. I think most new source-system users use one of the other previously mentioned systems.
One new open source project (Subversion) looked promising, but it was too immature for us to use.
Bitkeeper also looked interesting, but not enough so to beat out Perforce or AccuRev.
Another thing you might want to consider is how well the SCM integrates with a change mgmt system (or bug/task database). Perforce has a simplistic change database built in, but it's good enough for what we want it to do, and it can also be used with Bugzilla and a few other systems. Of course, CVS and at least ClearCase can do these as well. I've found Bugzilla somewhat cumbersome to use on limited inspection. Other freeware systems (GNATS, for example) are very weak. -
complement
Instead of ditching CVS, you might want to look at some tools which can complement it. The Mozilla project has several which might address some of the complaints.
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Mozilla MP Compatibility With 10.1
For those of us who also happen to own a multi-processor machine and have been unable to run Mozilla as a native OS X app, it looks like part of the problem was with 10.0.4's MP support and will be fixed in 10.1. For more info, check out this bugzilla bug.
Perhaps this could even mean an end to the dial-up disconnection woes, as those, too, were MP related. (For those of you blissfully unaware, MP machines with a dial-up modem connection had a tendency to randomly drop said connection.)
All in all, very good news, especially since Apple appears to have listened to its customers and will be making the upgrade free. -
Re:same goes for virii....
who wants to write a program that may never be used?
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Re:Yet Another Linux Bigot (YALB)
You can get Nimda about seven different ways and 6 of them have nothing to do with running a web server. Just browsing an infected site, something beyond your control, with IE 5.5 sp1 or less was enough.
This is true, of course. This worm spreads in a number of ways, all of which exploit security flaws in Microsoft software:
- It can directly attack your computer if you are running
Microsoft Internet Information Server (IIS)
- Consider using Apache instead
- It can attack as a mail attachment if you are using
Microsoft Outlook as a mail client
- Consider using Pegasus instead
- Consider using Netscape 6 instead
- Consider using KMail (on UNIX/Linux) instead.
- It can attack as an executable attachment to a Web page if
you browse with Microsoft Internet Explorer
- Consider using Opera instead.
- Consider using Mozilla instead.
- Consider using Netscape 6 instead.
- Consider using Konqueror (on UNIX/Linux) instead.
Notice a pattern there? Yes, that's right. If you don't run Microsoft, you can't get Nimda. Or Code Red, or Code Red II, or SirCam, or Melissa, or...
This isn't about being a Linux bigot. You can't get Nimda on MacOS. You can't get it on Solaris. You can't get in on OS/400, or AIX, or an Amiga, or on *BSD. This isn't a matter of Linux being good. Linux is just ordinary, like any other half-competent operating system.
This is a matter of Microsoft being incompetent. Hopelessly, culpably, irredeemably incompetent.
- It can directly attack your computer if you are running
Microsoft Internet Information Server (IIS)