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I added a request for this in bugzilla. It is Bug #26272. If you have some spare browser-component votes, vote for it. If you don't have a (free) bugzilla account yet, get one.

I added a request for this in bugzilla. It is Bug #26272. If you have some spare browser-component votes, vote for it. If you don't have a (free) bugzilla account yet, get one.

I added a request for this in bugzilla. It is Bug #26272. If you have some spare browser-component votes, vote for it. If you don't have a (free) bugzilla account yet, get one.

I added a request for this in bugzilla. It is Bug #26272. If you have some spare browser-component votes, vote for it. If you don't have a (free) bugzilla account yet, get one.

I'll submit this to buzilla as a feature request. Maybe somebody'll find the time to code it.

No they won't I actually had the experience to try an "AI-bot" scripted in javascript here , and the author had implemented some kind of pivoting-system, so that the bot could see in what context words had been used in before, so it could make up it's own sentences. You could even ask it to talk about stuff it had heard about, and it would start creating sentences. i think the script was called DPmachine, and the bot's name was mingus, and it used to hang out on #jsbot and #javascript on EFnet. Anywho, when you put up 2 bots, they would talk to eachother without stop and kept answering eachothers questions...FAST..until they both got k-lined..

When it comes to bi-directional web-browsing, have you checked out Mozilla? There seems to be some work on bi-directional text, but I don't know if/how it's working. Maybe you should get in touch with them, and maybe offer them your help?

There are several requests for UI improvements in bugzilla right now, but nobody is really doing anything about them. Here's a few off the top of my head:

Full screen view. There are so many requests for this on the wishlist newsgroup it's not even funny anymore.

Update bookmarks when sites move/disappear. This seems like a damn good idea to me.

Add throbber capabilities to taskbar icon, so you can see if a page is still loading even if it's minimized. This bug is basically the same idea but for miniwindows in WindowMaker. Since I'm pretty clueless about WindowMaker programming, I'm not sure if it's possible, but it's worth looking into.

Hierarchical go menu, which would allow branching based on link traversal. (ok, I admit it, shameless plug for my own request)

All of these strike me as potentially significant improvements to the UI.
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There are several requests for UI improvements in bugzilla right now, but nobody is really doing anything about them. Here's a few off the top of my head:

Full screen view. There are so many requests for this on the wishlist newsgroup it's not even funny anymore.

Update bookmarks when sites move/disappear. This seems like a damn good idea to me.

Add throbber capabilities to taskbar icon, so you can see if a page is still loading even if it's minimized. This bug is basically the same idea but for miniwindows in WindowMaker. Since I'm pretty clueless about WindowMaker programming, I'm not sure if it's possible, but it's worth looking into.

Hierarchical go menu, which would allow branching based on link traversal. (ok, I admit it, shameless plug for my own request)

All of these strike me as potentially significant improvements to the UI.
---

There are several requests for UI improvements in bugzilla right now, but nobody is really doing anything about them. Here's a few off the top of my head:

Full screen view. There are so many requests for this on the wishlist newsgroup it's not even funny anymore.

Update bookmarks when sites move/disappear. This seems like a damn good idea to me.

Add throbber capabilities to taskbar icon, so you can see if a page is still loading even if it's minimized. This bug is basically the same idea but for miniwindows in WindowMaker. Since I'm pretty clueless about WindowMaker programming, I'm not sure if it's possible, but it's worth looking into.

Hierarchical go menu, which would allow branching based on link traversal. (ok, I admit it, shameless plug for my own request)

All of these strike me as potentially significant improvements to the UI.
---

There are several requests for UI improvements in bugzilla right now, but nobody is really doing anything about them. Here's a few off the top of my head:

Full screen view. There are so many requests for this on the wishlist newsgroup it's not even funny anymore.

Update bookmarks when sites move/disappear. This seems like a damn good idea to me.

Add throbber capabilities to taskbar icon, so you can see if a page is still loading even if it's minimized. This bug is basically the same idea but for miniwindows in WindowMaker. Since I'm pretty clueless about WindowMaker programming, I'm not sure if it's possible, but it's worth looking into.

Hierarchical go menu, which would allow branching based on link traversal. (ok, I admit it, shameless plug for my own request)

All of these strike me as potentially significant improvements to the UI.
---

There are several requests for UI improvements in bugzilla right now, but nobody is really doing anything about them. Here's a few off the top of my head:

Full screen view. There are so many requests for this on the wishlist newsgroup it's not even funny anymore.

Update bookmarks when sites move/disappear. This seems like a damn good idea to me.

Add throbber capabilities to taskbar icon, so you can see if a page is still loading even if it's minimized. This bug is basically the same idea but for miniwindows in WindowMaker. Since I'm pretty clueless about WindowMaker programming, I'm not sure if it's possible, but it's worth looking into.

Hierarchical go menu, which would allow branching based on link traversal. (ok, I admit it, shameless plug for my own request)

All of these strike me as potentially significant improvements to the UI.
---

There are several requests for UI improvements in bugzilla right now, but nobody is really doing anything about them. Here's a few off the top of my head:

Full screen view. There are so many requests for this on the wishlist newsgroup it's not even funny anymore.

Update bookmarks when sites move/disappear. This seems like a damn good idea to me.

Add throbber capabilities to taskbar icon, so you can see if a page is still loading even if it's minimized. This bug is basically the same idea but for miniwindows in WindowMaker. Since I'm pretty clueless about WindowMaker programming, I'm not sure if it's possible, but it's worth looking into.

Hierarchical go menu, which would allow branching based on link traversal. (ok, I admit it, shameless plug for my own request)

All of these strike me as potentially significant improvements to the UI.
---

If you are running linux, you might want to switch to Mozilla. While it is still a bit buggy, it has a new cookie feature that I like. You can tell it to warn you before accepting cookies, and it has a "remember this desicion" checkbox that works on a domain by domain basis. It then stores that info in cookieperm.txt in your user profile.

Somebody yesterday suggested that we start some chain emails warning people about this and giving the opt out link. I suggest we also start them on ICQ and other instant messanger programs.

At any rate, I stand corrected. In my favor, I can say that I started wondering about it, went and read the release notes in full, then wandered back in here to eat a little crow. Thanks for setting me straight. :)

(Posted with M13/Win95.)

Zontar The Mindless,

M13 needs new 6.x versions of the Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime libraries, MSVCRT.DLL and MSVCIRT.DLL. Since these are usually locked when Windows is up and running, the installer program is necessary to update the files at reboot-time, if necessary.

In Zontar's case, he probably had the 6.x DLLs already, so everything ran out-of-the-zip. The release notes list the exact versions Mozilla expects. Newer versions should work, but Your Milage May Vary.

Keith Russell
OS != Religion

Take a look at this bug for more info about the scrolling problem with Logitech mice. The reason is the Logitech program em_exec.exe. There's a few workarounds listed on that page, and the bug is still open, so there probably will be a permanent fix.

There are some more Milestone's on the way.
A full(?) schedule is at http://www.mozilla.org/projec ts/seamonkey/milestones/.
Currently the Milestones are scheduled approx. 1 month from each other.
Milestone 17 (the last in the schedule) is scheduled for 5/19/00.

The list of bugs fixed in M13 is here

As just a rough estimate, it looks like about 760 bugs were fixed. Cool huh?

-DF

This is the mirror list of ftp.mozilla.org mirrors. I checked the nearest mirror to me, it was up to date; so don't /. the main ftp server :-)

• First and most important of all, it has a good mechanism for exposing C functions to scripts. This is crucial.
• You can strip out just about EVERYTHING, even text functions if you want. Great if you have to target a PSX or N64.
• Similarly, you can save memory since you're able to compile script text, then throw the text away and keep the bytecodes.
• A flexible syntax that could be used like C or as a line-based language, in scripts, on a command line, or in a config file.
• Garbage collection and a fixed heap size.
• Debugging support, which is often forgotten but important.

I also checked out ICI (cool), saw whether Perl could be cut down to size (not easily, but it would be worthwhile), TinyScheme (sure is!), and Small (very cool!). Now that there's more attention to large-scale, reusable game scripting (take a look at a new project, GODL) I think we should expect that good games will have a good scripting language behind them.

OTOH, you *do* need to protect yourself with something like one of these licenses if you don't want to hassle with getting additional permission from each author; otherwise, it opens up a world of legal hurtin'. :) You might consider discussing with each contributor licensing terms and royalties upon submission of their code (or possibly even before they submit their code).

The Netscape Public License FAQ has good explanations of not only the NPL, but several other open-source licenses as well, including BSD, GPL, LGPL, and the Artistic License.

It's my understanding that the major differance between the LGPL and the GPL is simply the fact that you can link to GPL-incompatible libraries using the LGPL. Unless that's all you want to accomplish over the GPL, then there's really no major difference. 'Course, you could always make an Open-Source Copyrighted Undistributable Software Product. ;)

Good luck in your endeavor.

PS.

However, as far as I know, the distiction of "what is entirely new code" is sufficiently hard to draw that most code ends up under the NPL. I am ready to be corrected on this, of course :+)

The following is a good guide to what constitutes a modification.

• If you change anything within one of the files contained in the Source Code, that is a Modification, and it is covered by the NPL.
• If you take code out of one of the files contained in the Source Code and place it in a new file, whether you add new code or not, that is a Modification, and it is covered by the NPL.
• If you rename a file or combine two or more files contained in the Source Code, that is a Modification, and it is covered by the NPL.
• However, if you add a new file that does not contain any of the Original Code or subsequent Modified code, it is not a Modification, and is not covered by the NPL. This remains true even if the new file is called or referenced by changes you made in an NPL file; the changes made to the NPL file would need to be covered by the NPL, but the code in the new file could be under any other compatible license.

OTOH, you *do* need to protect yourself with something like one of these licenses if you don't want to hassle with getting additional permission from each author; otherwise, it opens up a world of legal hurtin'. :) You might consider discussing with each contributor licensing terms and royalties upon submission of their code (or possibly even before they submit their code).

The Netscape Public License FAQ has good explanations of not only the NPL, but several other open-source licenses as well, including BSD, GPL, LGPL, and the Artistic License.

It's my understanding that the major differance between the LGPL and the GPL is simply the fact that you can link to GPL-incompatible libraries using the LGPL. Unless that's all you want to accomplish over the GPL, then there's really no major difference. 'Course, you could always make an Open-Source Copyrighted Undistributable Software Product. ;)

Good luck in your endeavor.

PS.

However, as far as I know, the distiction of "what is entirely new code" is sufficiently hard to draw that most code ends up under the NPL. I am ready to be corrected on this, of course :+)

The following is a good guide to what constitutes a modification.

• If you change anything within one of the files contained in the Source Code, that is a Modification, and it is covered by the NPL.
• If you take code out of one of the files contained in the Source Code and place it in a new file, whether you add new code or not, that is a Modification, and it is covered by the NPL.
• If you rename a file or combine two or more files contained in the Source Code, that is a Modification, and it is covered by the NPL.
• However, if you add a new file that does not contain any of the Original Code or subsequent Modified code, it is not a Modification, and is not covered by the NPL. This remains true even if the new file is called or referenced by changes you made in an NPL file; the changes made to the NPL file would need to be covered by the NPL, but the code in the new file could be under any other compatible license.

1. Modifications to the existing NPL code MUST themselves fall under the NPL - and be available to Netscape for their own private use.
2. Entirely new code may be licenced under NPL or under the Moz licence (code under the Moz licence is not available to Netscape for commercial purposes)

Look at the dearth of inovation we've seen in the browser software area as soon as everyone realized that there was no money to be made there.

The mozilla browser project is full of innovations, such as XUL (the cross platform UI in XML), XPCOM (cross-platform common object model), RDF, full standards compliance, etc. MS is busy working on the 5.5 release of MSIE that will probably raise the bar once again. Finally, Opera is still making money selling their lean, mean, utilitarian browser.

So where is this so called dearth of browser innovation?

If nobody are willing to do the work, the work will not be done.

This is great, especially since this allows developers to contribute additions and other changes to the originial source code, thus improving its security. The article also mentions that this is the same security used by the current version of Netscape Communicator. Does anyone know if this will be 128-bit security?

For more information, you can find Mozilla's official press release here. Also, check out the Mozilla crypto FAQ. It talks about PSM and various crypto-related questions.

• At the beginning of 1999 the Mozilla project decided to take a bold move and ditch most of the old Netscape Communicator code and rewrite the rendering engine from scratch making standards compliance number one priority.
• The project suffered some setbacks, including the leaving of a key employee Jamie Zawinski. The press often made the Mozilla project sound like it was going nowhere but despite the negative press AOL/Netscape continues to fund the development and we're nearly approaching beta.
• The project is the only one in the list that works on Multiple platforms. This is an open source product many Windows users will use as well as Linux, Mac, FreeBSD, etc. Writing a cross platform program can be difficul but Mozilla has done well
• Mozilla is often the project that companies look to judge the success of open source. We have to show these companies that Mozilla is a success by raising the profile of the project

mykmelez wrote:

[ A marvelous sum-up of and response to recent Mozilla-related whining, including a proper skewering of the Windoze "Duh, what's a command line?" brigade and a great shot at Mac shallowness disguised as self-righteous ranting about "consistency", concluding with ]

Mozillans: Reply with corrections/additions and I'll add them to the next version I post next time a Mozilla article comes out on Slashdot.

Slashdot, heck, submit it to the folks at mozilla.org!!

There is a RFE for Roaming Access, check it out: bug 17048

Help is needed to get it started.

Markus
--

The unofficial letter looks to be pretty similar to the Jan. 12 status update on mozilla.org. No big surprise here.

The unofficial letter looks to be pretty similar to the Jan. 12 status update on mozilla.org. No big surprise here.

From what I can see from the Mozilla FAQ (http://www.mozilla.org/docs/mozilla-faq.html), Mozilla will not contain Java as it is proprietary to Sun.

I find this rather disappointing. I understand the sentiments, but I don't think that a browser is fully functional without a JVM. The browser needs to be distributed with a JVM, or it's not good from a Java perspective.

I don't know why we're still stuck with Java 1.1 in browsers. Having Swing 1.1 on a local VM would be great (those JAR files are far too big to make using it in an Internet environment inpractical). Obviously Internet Explorer will not lead the way with a newer version of Java: Microsoft, with their attitude towards Java, will only update their VM when they have to compete with other major browsers. If Mozilla doesn't normally ship with a JVM, it will not be a major competitor to IE on the Java front.

I've been using Mozilla all the time lately. I downloaded the M12 release and started using that. I became so impressed that I now use the nightly builds. The more people using and testing the better. If you're running on of the less peopular platforms certainly consider running mozilla as there's less people to report bugs for your platform. If you're running on a platform where mozilla doesn't run consider helping get the program to run on your platform often this won't involve too much effort as a lot of the code is cross platform. Help whatever way you can and we'll be rewarded with an excellent browser.
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I've been using Mozilla all the time lately. I downloaded the M12 release and started using that. I became so impressed that I now use the nightly builds. The more people using and testing the better. If you're running on of the less peopular platforms certainly consider running mozilla as there's less people to report bugs for your platform. If you're running on a platform where mozilla doesn't run consider helping get the program to run on your platform often this won't involve too much effort as a lot of the code is cross platform. Help whatever way you can and we'll be rewarded with an excellent browser.
--

The link for 'start using Mozilla' tjhat you posted is broken. The link you require is:
http://www.mozilla.org/get-involved.html

This IS part of the official Mozilla status report. Nice to see it get some widespread publicity though.

Mozilla is certainly usable at the moment. I'm using it to post this message and for 90% of my browsing under Linux.

As more people start using Mozilla it increases the chances of finding obscure bugs and therefore reaching stability sooner.

Mozilla is certainly usable at the moment. I'm using it to post this message and for 90% of my browsing under Linux.

As more people start using Mozilla it increases the chances of finding obscure bugs and therefore reaching stability sooner.

Mozilla is certainly usable at the moment. I'm using it to post this message and for 90% of my browsing under Linux.

As more people start using Mozilla it increases the chances of finding obscure bugs and therefore reaching stability sooner.

You can see the "official" status message this was taken from. Search down for the entry named "Seamonkey" dated january 10th.

I had already seen this on Mozilla.org's Newsbot. The information was posted on netscape.public.mozilla.seamonkey. You can read it on deja here.

Also I don't think the debug info need to hog so much memory. Currently it consumes memory nearly 3 times that of Netscape and 4 times IE5.

Also, its FORM handling is still uglier and very un-predictable. (for example see:Bug-23986

But I am not telling these things to drive away people from Mozilla. Mozilla is a beautiful beast and I very much hope by the time it is beta all these things would be solved...as there were huge improvements from M12 proper to the 13Jan2000 nightly build. The Wallet feature is also very good and is working right-now(tm)...

The core is perfect (as you can see in CSS implementation), only the GUI needs improvement, which gets fixed as time goes...

--nivas (A mozilla fan)

Also I don't think the debug info need to hog so much memory. Currently it consumes memory nearly 3 times that of Netscape and 4 times IE5.

Also, its FORM handling is still uglier and very un-predictable. (for example see:Bug-23986

But I am not telling these things to drive away people from Mozilla. Mozilla is a beautiful beast and I very much hope by the time it is beta all these things would be solved...as there were huge improvements from M12 proper to the 13Jan2000 nightly build. The Wallet feature is also very good and is working right-now(tm)...

The core is perfect (as you can see in CSS implementation), only the GUI needs improvement, which gets fixed as time goes...

--nivas (A mozilla fan)

many, many programs are debugged enough to be useful, like the Netscape browser I am using right now.

By "Netscape" you mean a recent release of the Mozilla browser, correct? Netscape 4.x just too buggy for me to work with at least.

you might want to take a look at mozilla
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sounds great! if that's all it is, put that in your HowToBuildOnRedHat and it'll be 95% shorter and you can get rid of the "out of date" label! Hmmm... sure sounds easy, doesn't it? :)

If the build instructions bother you, what about filing a bug?

:) I read this as, "if you don't like the way we do A, come and learn how we do B,", meaning, have you looked at your bug-filing system? I have, that's something else I poured effort into. It's pages and pages of rules and standards, including the instruction that I review all of the existing bugs first. Look at that link! Ouch! Where is the build system? I'm looking to dip my toe in the water, and you are offering me assimilation into a Borg hive.

I'm not saying there is nothing good about the work you've done, you have to meet the needs of the people on the project, I understand. But if there was a vacation package maybe I'd like it enough to come back and buy a home later.

Or not! I freely admit the project may not need people like me.

sounds great! if that's all it is, put that in your HowToBuildOnRedHat and it'll be 95% shorter and you can get rid of the "out of date" label! Hmmm... sure sounds easy, doesn't it? :)

If the build instructions bother you, what about filing a bug?

:) I read this as, "if you don't like the way we do A, come and learn how we do B,", meaning, have you looked at your bug-filing system? I have, that's something else I poured effort into. It's pages and pages of rules and standards, including the instruction that I review all of the existing bugs first. Look at that link! Ouch! Where is the build system? I'm looking to dip my toe in the water, and you are offering me assimilation into a Borg hive.

I'm not saying there is nothing good about the work you've done, you have to meet the needs of the people on the project, I understand. But if there was a vacation package maybe I'd like it enough to come back and buy a home later.

Or not! I freely admit the project may not need people like me.

booboo'd on that url:
this is what i meant.