Slashdot Mirror

I thought Google used Navteq data, like most of the players in the industry. Ie the map data that still shows the new Tollways where I live a good 100 meters to the left, and warns me about drowning in the pond I'm "driving through."

My GPS has a map mode. You can zoom and pan a top-down road map to where ever you need. I'm pretty sure that's a standard feature on most GPS devices. Failing that, couldn't you have entered his location as a destination and reverse engineered directions to where you were from the route it gave you?

With respect to "guiding" you to congested main arteries, the fancy schmancy GPS models now come with real time traffic monitoring. No idea how well it works, from a quick look at Garmin's site, they have coverage only in major cities: http://www.navteq.com/rdstraffic/

Whats the state of navigation for linux in car systems? It'd be fun to homebrew one, but without decent navigation it's not a whole lot of use.

I'm sure i should have some BSOD joke in here too, but i haven't had my coffee yet

Navigation is a hard problem, primarily due to a lack of data. There are free sources (as in public domain) of street line data for many countries, however you need topological network data to accurately route a car -- street intersections, one-way streets, weighting of streets according to real-world local conditions, etc.

The US Census releases the TIGER data, and OpenStreetMaps builds on that (and other) data with a public domain wiki-style site, but neither sources have sufficient topological data to route autos.

There are two primary providers of topological map data -- you'll see their logos at the bottom of most maps, including Google Maps: NavTeq and TeleAtlas. For a brief introduction to the scale of the problem, I'd actually recommend watching TeleAtlas's marketing video on their production process

I'd love to see furtherance of open topographical data -- data about the communities around us is useful for more than just routing automobiles. One very interesting development is Google StreetView. In taking these photographs, Google has removed the need to actually drive the routes to gather, correct, or refine data -- they can collect the photographs en-masse, allowing more specialized analysis to be done offline -- anyone, anywhere, can determine whether a street is one-way, where the freeway on-ramp is, etc.

I should also mention that OpenStreetMaps uses a share-alike creative-commons license. The definition of an "aggregate work" of data is very fluid -- I can not use OSM data, since I can't combine it with data available under different licensing -- even publicly available municipal data that simply can't be re-licensed CC Share-Alike.

Whats the state of navigation for linux in car systems? It'd be fun to homebrew one, but without decent navigation it's not a whole lot of use.

I'm sure i should have some BSOD joke in here too, but i haven't had my coffee yet

Navigation is a hard problem, primarily due to a lack of data. There are free sources (as in public domain) of street line data for many countries, however you need topological network data to accurately route a car -- street intersections, one-way streets, weighting of streets according to real-world local conditions, etc.

The US Census releases the TIGER data, and OpenStreetMaps builds on that (and other) data with a public domain wiki-style site, but neither sources have sufficient topological data to route autos.

There are two primary providers of topological map data -- you'll see their logos at the bottom of most maps, including Google Maps: NavTeq and TeleAtlas. For a brief introduction to the scale of the problem, I'd actually recommend watching TeleAtlas's marketing video on their production process

I'd love to see furtherance of open topographical data -- data about the communities around us is useful for more than just routing automobiles. One very interesting development is Google StreetView. In taking these photographs, Google has removed the need to actually drive the routes to gather, correct, or refine data -- they can collect the photographs en-masse, allowing more specialized analysis to be done offline -- anyone, anywhere, can determine whether a street is one-way, where the freeway on-ramp is, etc.

I should also mention that OpenStreetMaps uses a share-alike creative-commons license. The definition of an "aggregate work" of data is very fluid -- I can not use OSM data, since I can't combine it with data available under different licensing -- even publicly available municipal data that simply can't be re-licensed CC Share-Alike.

Here is the Navteq correction page. http://mapreporter.navteq.com/dur-web-external/ I had a street missing in my neighborhood for almost 4 years, and regularly cursed the lack of updates. Then I actually bothered to go post an update with the new street. Within a week, Google Maps was updated, and I assume future versions of the Navteq map will be as well.

Behold my horrible experience with Navteq when I tried to submit a map update.

Long story short: I submitted the map update request 14 months ago, left comments every few months requesting action, or at least some feedback, and I have yet to get any kind of response, AT ALL. I even emailed their customer service division about the lack of response and (surprise!) I never got a response.

Navteq, your customer service sucks.
---------
Posting anon as this is where I really live. :)

Please forgive the slightly off-topic post...

Two of the biggest map data providers are Navteq and TeleAtlas. Each company has a section on their website where you can report errors in their maps.

Since they will need to review your submission and mapping sites like Google Maps and Mapquest only update their map data a couple times a year, it will be a while before your correction goes public (if ever).

Yes, and TIGER is put together by the USGS, and it already *is* the "open source" data that the geniuses here are talking about. If you find an error, alert the USGS. I've done it myself - call their number and ask.

Now, as for the fantasy of people driving around with a gps attached to their car (ha ha, isn't that stupid!), um, oh:

http://www.navteq.com/about/whatis_difference.html

"NAVTEQ digital map data is built on the roads of the world. Over seven hundred NAVTEQ field researchers from approximately 168 offices drive millions of kilometers of the road network each year. To provide uniformity and maximize precision each team works to a single global specification. And each team has state-of-the-art equipment, including our proprietary GPS-based collection technology and GWS software.

These field teams are constantly verifying and updating the database, not only in terms of road geometry, but also in details. Each team finds and records up to 260 attributes--everything from addresses and road signs to turn restrictions--for each segment of road. The result is the NAVTEQ difference: digital map data that is precise, robust and multifaceted."

There's no pretense; Navteq has people driving around, with gps's, verifying speed limits, road conditions, etc. That's why companies like Google and Yahoo buy their data. Before you act like an ass, you might want to do some rudimentary fact-checking...

You can submit map errors and recent road changes through Navteq's Map Reporter site (http://mapreporter.navteq.com/).

NavTeq and TeleAtlas operate in Europe and the far East as well as in the U.S. There is no TIGER data in these areas. Therefore, trivially, NavTeq and TeleAtlas data is not always "based off of TIGER," although that may be true in some cases in the U.S.

...I live in a major county with over 3 million people, in the NYC Metro area)... which is still innaccurate in the same fashion as the TIGER/Line data...

Then submit a map update. Or just be glad that you're still off the radar, for now.

for instance, distance calculations for web back-ends to display a sorted by distance list of a certain set of search results. That's one of just many examples I can post, where it makes sense to use the TIGER/Line data over NavTeq's or TeleAtlas' products.

The reason why I brought up mapping and routing is that, well, those are the things that people like to do with maps. For instance, if your web back-end tells me that the nearest pizza shop is just across the East River (and all I have to do is travel a long way to find a bridge), I'm not going to be very happy. Or if it tells me that all I have to do is cross the busiest highway in town at rush hour.

Add to that the fact that TIGER only works in the U.S., and I'm distinctly not impressed with your solution. But hey, ultimately, the market will decide, not me.

Google mostly uses NAVTEQ data for maps.google.com (they seem to use TeleAtlas when it's an embedded map).

For NAVTEQ data, you can use their Map Reporter to submit information. Once they get around to [1] incorporating the new data, it may then take another few months to filter back to Google and all their other customers.

[1] My street (built circa 2000) is missing from NAVTEQ, so I submitted a report describing the street, and all the house numbers about a month ago. It doesn't seem like anybody there has looked at it yet though.

A company called Navteq does a lot of it, and contracts out data and software.

The New Yorker had a great profile on E-mapping and route finding including a ride-along with a "Ground Truth" team that heads out with their GPS-linked laptop and drives... pretty much everywhere. One key part of ground-truthing (and good directions) is knowing the signage on the route:

Singh bought a Red Bull and took the wheel. Arcari sat in back with the laptop, ready to note any changes in what they called the "geometry" of the roads.

"Whenever you're ready, Shovie," he said.

The first thing the men noticed was a "No Left Turn" sign out of the gas station. "That doesn't go in the database," Arcari said. "That's unofficial geometry, since it pertains to a private enterprise."

Ironically, a few years ago, I put up some satellite photos of my house in Colorado ... and the Virtual Earth has the same ones clearly showing the drought of 2002 with a bunch of brown grass - not realistic to expect real-time imagery, but I'm surprised not a more recent pass.

• NavTeq Driver feedback
• Tele Atlas feedback form

XM has their NavTraffic service which works with the Pioneer AVIC-N2 for some big bambucha dollars:
http://www.xmradio.com/newsroom/screen/pr_2004_11_ 02.html

Sirius has something going on with NavTEQ
http://www.navteq.com/NewsUserServlet?action=NewsD etail&newsId=297

In some cases I believe that there are even contractural obligations that prevent the licensee from doing anything other than presenting the data as it's received from the vendor, so even if a company had the resources to answer every user complaint about the data (which they don't) they can't make changes to it anyway. It's a frustrating arrangement.

Disclaimer: The above applies only to road mapping data for the U.S. - Data for other countries or applications (aviation, boating, etc.) comes from different governmental and commercial sources, depending on the provider.

Complain to Navteq, since that's where Google (and half of everyone else providing maps) gets their data from. There are only about two different map data providers that anyone uses. It's expensive to drive around with GPS all the time and keep maps current.

• '... NAVTEQ digital map data is built on the roads of the world. Five hundred NAVTEQ field researchers from over 100 offices drive millions of meters of the road network each year ... These field teams are constantly verifying and updating the database, not only in terms of road geometry, but also in details ... [NAVTEQ Difference - www.navteq.com promo information.] ...'

I agree the readability of the information is better than most - if scant attention to the *quality* of the *changing* data is not addressed (500 people truth checking the entire US - let alone the major cities) the service will be substandard for all but the routine point to point navigation.

I think I'll journal more on this topic.

I honestly don't care about pretty moving maps. I like street-address-level route plotting. I'd prefer it on a linux-based PDA. I'd even pay what a comparable Win32 program would cost, or run one under wine if it were compatible with a card-based GPS receiver.

The GPS in my car just does voices, text and arrows, and I'm just ducky with that. However, without routing, IMHO, GPS is useless on the road.

IIRC Navte(ch|q) uses an open format (SDAL) for its routing database, you have to buy the CD/DVDs. Does anything out there work with _any_ routing data to do routes for Linux?

Your best (free) bet is probably TIGER data in either its original form or in shapefile form, updated and corrected locally.

TIGER is made from USGS DLG or DRG files, combined with some updating done by the US Census Bureau. Since the census is only done periodically, the TIGER data gets out of date.

Some organizations take TIGER data and update it and resell it in various forms. One of these is NAVTEQ, who has people out on the road constantly driving around and updating their maps. As a result, this information tends to be rather expensive, but pretty high quality. Other companies in the same business are DeLorme and UnderTow (formerly Chicago Mapping, I believe). I think UnderTow's Precision Mapping product has pretty decent licensing terms, last I looked at it (several years ago). Much better than DeLorme.

If you want to get your own imagery and work from that, there are several good free sources:

University of Maryland's GLCF site serves up 30m color imagery and 15m monochrome imagery for most of the world. To make the color imagery useful, you'll want to take a look at Scott Cherba's Tutorial using Photoshop or Terrainmap's tutorial using PaintShop Pro. One of the software companies I've founded makes an inexpensive utility called PixelSense (Windows, $49) to do this process automatically.

The United States Department of Agriculture Lighthouse Server serves up a variety of data including free 1m monochrome mosaics of virtually every county in the US. These are large files, and come in MrSID format, for which you'll need to download a Viewer (time-limited trial version) that can save out the portions you want. The nice thing about this is that they are mosaiced and brightness-balanced, whereas if you just go buy/download a bunch of DOQQs elsewhere, they may not match well at the edges of each file.

Finally, in urban areas, you may be able to take advantage of the USGS Urban Areas High-Resolution Orthoimagery available for some cities from the USGS Seamless Server. This data is fantastic, 1ft resolution color airphotos. You can see cars and individual people. It's very recent, having been aquired after 2001 for national disaster planning and response purposes.

Good luck. I'd be happy to answer questions you might have privately, as a lot of my customers do cartography.