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Microsoft Bets Big On Computing For the Car
dstates writes "The automobile industry may be hurting, but Microsoft is doubling down and making a massive new investment in its automotive business unit. Microsoft already works closely with a number of car companies and will enhance that effort with more people and more resources. Sync developed as a collaboration with Ford Motor Co. allows motorists to control their cell phones, music players and navigation systems with voice commands while they drive. Microsoft is also making 'Live Search' technology available to automakers to develop in-car search and navigation. Detroit native Tom Philips, the new unit leader said 'There are a lot of technologies that are two to three years out that are going to provide even more connectivity and innovation. There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.'"
Whats the state of navigation for linux in car systems? It'd be fun to homebrew one, but without decent navigation it's not a whole lot of use.
I'm sure i should have some BSOD joke in here too, but i haven't had my coffee yet
I'm still waiting for Mr. Coffee to add a coffee maker for the car.
o goodie bsod as I am braking.
On a long enough timeline. The survival rate for everyone drops to zero. Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, 1996
"Well, I don't know, officer, I was driving an' then this animorphic paperclip appeared on the road and I swerved to hit him but instead he was just super 'mposed on the windshield so all I did was hit this here telerphone pole!"
I'm suprised that it took this long to be honest.
I will bend like a reed in the wind.
The major navigation units like TomTom run embedded linux.
PREDICTION: Microsoft misses the mark yet again!
This guy's the limit!
So, since they appear to be emulating Apple... will the entire strategy be centered around the Zune?
It's going to be as big as tablet computing, I tell you!
As someone who drives a 8.5 year old car (and is still happy with it) without a board-computer like the ones Microsoft sells, I still don't see the need for one. I do have a "board-computer" but it only calculates l/100km, driven time, and stuff like that. I don't think it uses an operating system.
In-car entertainment is something I cannot comprehend. If you've got kids they most certainly have a Gameboy or something like that, or they can read a book. That's what I did when I was a kid doing long trips (Okay, it was a Game Gear, but that's not a big difference). On short trips enterainment systems shouldn't even be turned on.
The only value I could see is a GPS system, but that really doesn't have to be based on Windows. Even then, in the 14 years I drive, I have rarely felt the need for a GPS. The few times I was in a foreign city without a map (and if you got there, you make sure you actually have a map *grin*).
Anyway, I know this is just my opinion and my needs are surely not reflected in what "Joe Driver" needs. Now get off my lawn!
Hi! I see you're trying to turn on the radio! Would you like to tune into a station? Hi! I see you're trying to turn on the AC, would you like me to cool the car down! Hi! I see you're masturbating while driving, would you like me to *CRASH*!!!!!!!
Yeah, my karma sucks....but so do the mods.
I want to retain control of my car, thank you very much, and adding a bunch of so called 'var computers' is not going to do that.
Keep your grubby mitts off my vehicle.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
With all these electric cars, when will they put in something really useful instead of this flaky electronic shit, especially from MS?
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Deploy airbag? [Cancel | Allow]
Even if the "car" as we know it is disappearing, Microsoft's work should transfer over nicely to whatever replaces it. I doubt there's much about Microsoft's system that assumes an internal combustion engine. If the car should die, the need for people to get from A to B does not die with it. Maybe more people will be taking electric cars, or trains, or some weird sci-fi individual self-navigating capsules in a mesh of tubes. In all of those cases, Microsoft's software would still have a place. Seems like a promising investment to me.
There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.'"
Good. I want that disconnect when people are driving half-ton pieces of metal that could kill someone. You think cell phones are distracting? Jus' picture someone trying to reply to a flamewar... in rush hour...
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
Before anyone is going to post the story about Bill Gates and the director of GM about cars crashing 3 times a day: it never happened...
karma police: arrest this man, he talks in maths; he buzzes like a fridge, he's like a detuned radio. [radiohead]
That's because those pesky free-software freaks haven't figured out how to replace their car's sofware with linux yet. Still space for a good-old-fashioned monopoly lock-in.
You've turned the wheel to the right. This will cause you to stop going straight. Are you sure you want to do this?
Yes No Cancel
.
Probably because when people are in their cars they are driving around large, heavy, and potentially lethal, vehicles. Now Microsoft wants those people to be distracted by unreliable Microsoft software.
Some friends of mine wrote centrafuse (car computer frontend) and started Flux Media. They have an awesome little piece of software there. BTW, I am not affiliated with them except as friends.
Finally, now the term "speed-hacking" can be applied outside the context of video games!
EVER buy a car that has a "Designed for Windows" sticker on it.
Sorry, I'd never buy a car with a MS computer in it. Call me bigoted or whatever. I just won't.
There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.
I have a novel idea: maybe we should focus on DRIVING while we're in the car.
while I am driving, I am OK with their systems
The lifetime of a car is 10 to 20 years. The lifetime of a MS OS is 5 years. Less when there is no update. See the problem ?
In my opinion, MS is late to this party. The electronic devices we want and use inside the car are, in order of importance, music players (radio/CD/MP3/8-track for all I care), GPS navigation, hands-free cell phone.
All of those already exist and are available as add-ons, if not dealer options.
Sure, it would be nice to have a central control point for all those devices, but it would be nice to have "digital convergence" in my living room with a central controller for my TV, DVD player, stereo, etc. "Would be nice" evidently doesn't make things happen in the marketplace.
I don't see what a car computer can offer, that isn't already available.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
>There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.'"
Yes. My car doesn't suddenly quit for no reason.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
I was late today, My car gave me the red ring of death this morning. I called it in, and they tried to charge me 100 dollars to read the error code that a headlight is bad.
...the first blue windscreen of death. Literally.
['windscreen' is what you across the pond call the 'windshield']
Just another great excuse why you're late for work: "My car had the blue screen of death."
I will not drive any car that depends on Windows for so much as operating a retractable antenna.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Actually, I can hook up my TomTom via USB into my pc, and download all sorts of stuff into it any time.
Microsoft is also making 'Live Search' technology available to automakers to develop in-car search and navigation.
Why would I want that? I'll wait until Google makes an in-car search feature, thank you very much.
"Detroit native Tom Philips, the new unit leader said 'There are a lot of technologies that are two to three years out that are going to provide even more connectivity and innovation. There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.'"
Maybe, just maybe, the reason for the disconnect is that we're in a giant heap of metal hurtling at 70mph amid a bevy of other giant heaps of metal.
I think we should preserve that disconnect.
Actually, it turns out that these things (automotive entertainment systems0 actually have to be extremely reliable. Windows Embedded for Automotive has to be way more robust than regular Windows Embedded, for example. The pressure comes from the car manufacturers themselves, not the public.
The reason is quite simply, if the system fails within the warranty period, it's a warranty repair. Warranty repairs are expensive, especially with prices dropping and margins thinning. Like the technology sector, a profit or a loss can be made simply by the amount of warranty work that needs to be done. (As a side benefit, people perceive a car that has to be in the shop to be of way lower quality, even if it's in the shop because the entertainment system keeps dying). Anyone remember the classic VW radio with the anti-theft that keeps going off on the slightest electrical spike?
Here's the other nasty thing about automotive systems - the parts must be available for years after the model is discontinued. With external DVD players, aftermarket stereos/DVD players, etc., it's not a big deal since the owner can buy a new one. But that new in-dash GPS/radio/climate control/etc. unit, if it breaks within that time period, it has to be replaced. (Think about all those 5 year "bumper to bumper" warranties, too). Given how fast technology moves, it's actually quite difficult to design a system and still have parts available for it 5-10 years after it was made.
I don't blame you. I have a number of "embedded Windows" devices on my network. Each of them runs for a day or so without reboot. Some require cold restarts, others can be warm-rebooted. I certainly would not want embedded Windows in my engine control system. I'm not sure that I need it for anything more than easy navigation. There are plenty of nice sound systems that don't require Windows to run. No way I'd put video systems in my car, too distracting! The only reason for a TomTom is that it can give me verbal directions and occasional planning data in areas I don't know.
I own a car computer in my car (and have for the past 2 1/2 years) with a touch screen monitor custom built into the dash. After two years of running this, I can honestly say that the most stable part of this was the operating system (Windows XP). I had trouble with the hardware, had a hard drive die, had many issues with the software powering it, but the one thing that did not crap out on me was the operating system. For those of you questioning why a car entertainment system, the answer is simple: thousands of songs (30 gigs worth) at your finger tips, an easy to use display that actually displays, searches, and catalogs your music while displaying the album art is unbeatable when you have a commute or take a long journey somewhere. From a music standpoint alone, it is completely worth it. Also being of the male persuasion, I would prefer not to ask for directions and find it quite cryptic when most people give directions, so having my built in pc-based navigation unit is priceless as well. As far as pictures and movies in your car, who cares? It's like having pictures and movies in your IPOD - for what?? That part is pointless, but I guess it is nice to have. I guess for all of you that have harsh comments either wish you had a car pc, but could never afford it, or just have some juvenile MS flaming fetish. :)
Microsoft, Automobile Division: giving new meaning to "Blue Screen of Death."
Enjoy your ride.
SSC
I have a tom tom, and love having gps when I travel. Being a technical astute person. What I would like to have is a system, with gps (1), music (mp3) (2) and radio control (software radio) (3), maybe cell phone control (4), all tied with wireless so when I pull up to my house I could sync all items, gps maps, music, os updates etc.
Now that I think of it, I guess just a nice little low power pc running of a 4 gig card with no hard drive to be the firewall and manage the wireless connections to the car and a little hub would allow everything that is existing to be tied together.
It looks like you're travelling down the freeway.
Would you like help?
- Get Help Driving down the freeway.
- Continue Driving without help.
- Don't show this tip again.
There's no disk in a EECIV, just a nice reliable ROM. Without microprocessors and electric fuel injectors you'ld be stuck with an analog open loop system (carburetor).
They just need to make the newer ones work in the old cars so you can put in a new system 3-5 years later.
I personaly have lost nothing, i can remove the ECM from any car i buy or completely reprogram it, replace the EFI with a carb, drive manual transmissions, etc. You also dont know the age of the chassis/body of the car i normally drive.
So please only speak for yourself when you claim ive lost control of *my* car.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Frankly I was surprised that Microsoft never entered the car GPS market. They have their excellent MapPoint product; if they made a car GPS that was built off of that technology and had integration with the pc product (an interface to load planned routes from the PC version from a USB stick or something would be nice) then I personally think that would be pretty awesome.
... the more [star] systems will slip through your fingers.
Imagine millions of cars controlled by botnets, as ruthless criminals seize control of insecure systems in order to extort businesses, governments and individuals. Imagine the automotive equivalent of a denial of service attack: GPS devices are modified to direct drivers en masse into bottlenecks to cause collisions, gridlocks and pile-ups.
Sounds too unlikely to ever happen? Surely such systems would never be made so insecure, or built with hackable internet connections! Tell me, wWhat would you have said fifteen years ago to a time-traveller who came back and described today's botnets to you?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Why would I want a general purpose computer in my car? Will it help me to get where I'm going or improve my journey in some way? Seems lots of cheap dedicated devices do that much better.
if control interfaces and APIs would become standardized.
Everything is designed for i$foo. My head unit can read mp3s from a flash drive, but it doesn't do it optimally unless you use their software to put stuff on there (kenwood).
I also own a sansa, which I love. It was $100, so I don't care if I break it of lose it (the point of a portable player that doesn't do anything else). And I don't need anything special to put the music on it. It's just a mass storage device to my OS (which isn't OSX or M$).
It sure would be nice if I could just plug my sansa into my car, or anybody else's, and queue up the music. I'm sure apple's patenting makes this a dream. Instead, I have things in 3 locations: the home server, the sansa, and the hard drive that stays in the car, and if I want to control something out of the box, the only option is Apple hardware, which doesn't easily interface with anything else that I use computer-wise.
Oh great! Not only do I have to wait for my TV, my cell phone, my set-top box, and even my scope to boot up, now I'll have to wait for my CAR TOO??? Used to, all you had to do when buying a new car was to kick the tires and take it for a test drive. Now we'll have to benchmark it before making a decision.
If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.
When I saw "brick" and "'stang" in the same sentence, I thought you were going to talk about its handling characteristics...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=etvaHh244Ok
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
We have these state of the art computers in all of our cars, but for some reason we still have to take our car to the mechanic to determine why our Check Engine Light is on. Why should I have to pay $60-$80 for them to plug in a computer to read the codes.
Do some research on the Evo X or R35 GTR...software/firmware problems are a major issue, and the R35 GTR has "Car DRM." I don't think MS had a hand in either of them though.
Also there was a self-racing BMW on Top Gear, I don't know about a Golf...
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
raspberry! Lone Starr.
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
Kind of like that episode of Doctor Who...
Actually, it turns out that these things (automotive entertainment systems0 actually have to be extremely reliable. Windows Embedded for Automotive has to be way more robust than regular Windows Embedded, for example. The pressure comes from the car manufacturers themselves, not the public.
We wish... I have spent many happy hours in QANTAS business class watching the Windows CE based in-flight entertainment system rebooting, and rebooting, and rebooting - You got to see a Windows CE error screen for minutes at a time. The last occasion it it happened to us, they gave us refunds/gifts to the value of $700 as the system was out all the way from Singapore to Frankfurt. One of the nice cabin crew told me that it happened regularly, and that the experience had put her off Windows - She had just bought an Apple Mac. Anecdotal, but still frightening.
I saw something similar on a Virgin flight - only their in-flight entertainment system was Linux based. The kernel kept on booting, failing to start anything useful, giving up and rebooting.
From what I could tell, it looked like there was some sort of corruption to the root fs and the designers had failed to account for the possibility that power to non-essential systems (eg. entertainment) might be cut at awkward moments. Which we all know NEVER happens on an aircraft.
Bottom line: I don't care whether it's Windows Embedded, Linux or what, if the system isn't designed and implemented properly it's going to screw up.
I have had that in my last two cars.
You do know you can disable that, right? Check your stereo's settings. Even my measly GM stock radio (base model) had the option to turn it off.
Maybe you've got a more basic or an older unit or something but AFAIK most half-decent modern in-car GPS systems support bluetooth phone coupling and can play MP3s from an SD card. Only thing that might be missing is the radio.
See I've always thought that we need something kind of like iphones, but cheaper and with an unlimited data plan.. then you could mount/dock one in your car, and it would be the PC/networking piece for the car. It would be multipurpose with things like: conventional radio, internet radio, mp3s, custom content - perhaps like flash (weather, sports, news, stocks, gps, traffic, etc)
Segmentation fault in process Antilock Brakes. Your system will now reboot - please be patient.
DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
The tomtom devices are linux based, you can make them play music and even video, take a look at http://www.opentom.org/
The music would sound bad coming out of the internal speaker, not sure if you can make them drive a usb speaker system or send the audio over bluetooth.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
It's plagued with problems with bad drivers.
Have gnu, will travel.
...From past mistakes about how long a car is actually on the road compared to how long a computer is considered usable. We look back and laugh at cars that came with cassette tapes, 8-tracks, and god forbid, vinyl record players but they were innovative and useful for their times.
If M$ is serious about getting into this business, they need to take a lot of notes from the auto industry on longevity and modular design that makes the core easily replaceable as technology shifts. While full integration is great initially, it becomes cumbersome later when the changes come.
I can cite one example where Ford dropped the ball in in-car entertainment design. 1990's and early 2000's Taurus (and other models) had this full integrated, non-standard audio system that encompassed the entire center console, and when the buyer was sick of hearing the crappy audio system it was an absolute nightmare to back it out and put a standard DIN headunit in the car - not to mention the expensive and ugly aftermarket dash kit that was required.
Now, on the other hand, the Sync technology in the new Fords is very well done. Being a jaded anti-M$ person, I didn't want to like it, but I was pleasantly surprised at how well done it is. Sure, it has its flakiness, and the display on Ford's head units are dismal 1980's technology, but the phone integration, voice prompts, and usability make that pain go away. While it could use some improvement, I have to give hats off to Ford & M$ for a well done execution.
- They have a solid history of unstable products. I for one don't want or need a computer in my car that's unstable for any reason, ever. I don't trust mickeysawft to be able to write anything that robust. Period. ... mickeysuck is also investing heavily in an ad-driven model ... only a fool would believe that won't bleed over to this completely captive audience, sooner or later.
- It's also matter of time before that integrated computer system in your car starts feeding you ads that it picks up from roadside wifi. It's THAT control I want to retain
If the auto companies got together and made an open API, that would be great. Mind you, this would be for non-critical functions (entertainment, climate control) but would provide visibility into the operations.
I've got a decent nav/entertainment system in my car, but I often wish I could replace it with something nicer. It should be as easy as replacing the radio.
Developers should be able to make equipment that can see what's going on in the car. My hands-free bluetooth interface can't use the nav touch screen, so I when I pair a device I have use the voice menu, which sucks. An open interface would prevent this kind of thing.
When I drive I can see the map in the car, but I have to pull up the traffic on my phone (which is paired). I'd like better!
(Yes, I'm rambling: sorry...)
Bigtime Consulting - "We're the best because we cost the most"
Microsoft behind the wheel?
How long will the car's startup time take now? =/
I really don't want any Microsoft software running in my car. I have seen the BSOD too many times. If I cannot adjust the damn heat because the software is unstable, guess what! I'm not buying that car. (Does anybody remember the problems with the BMW iDrive system?)
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
I'm a long time Unix/Linux user. I used to run Linux on my desktop, till I switched to Mac OS X, and in general have been pretty critical of MS.
But, I must admit that I really like the MS "Sync" system in my new car. Basically it provides a voice controlled interface to my music on my iPod and bluetooth phone integration for hands free calling.
The voice recognition does a good job of interpreting my music selections, such as "Play Track Exhuming McCarthy" or "Play Artist Michael Hedges". Cell integration is quite nice too. It syncs with my phone's address book, and I can tell it "Call Sonya Porter on Cell".
I also use a microsoft mouse.. so, let's just throw Sync in the hardware category to not break the standard rule to avoid MS software.
Old MSFT sales slogan:
Where do you want to go today?
New Auto-Windows slogan:
YOU'LL GO WHERE WE DAMN WELL TELL YOU TO GO!
For example, in the Ford commercial the guy says "Find a Nail Salon" - like that'll come up often. If you live there, you already know what Salon (or whatever), because you asked a friend. Perhaps you'd ask, "Find [a specific 'whatever']" - once.
Personally, (and this is a bit of a troll) having the names Ford *and* Microsoft together just give me two reasons not to buy that car....
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
If so, can you tell us what your experience has been like?
"Freedom Through Vigilance"
http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/maemo-mapper/
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
"Oooh. I like how when you push the gas pedal down it makes the car go faster."
"Now try turning the car using this directional influencer."
"Wow. When I turn this wheel thing to the left the car goes left. I like that. I like being able to drive my car in the direction I want it to."
"This Ford Focus is actually Windows Vista."
"Really!?"
and again they just copy others... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20502777/wid/11915829>1=10252
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
When I first saw the TV ads for Synch a number of issues ran through my head (MS BSOD, distractions while driving, etc), but the one that stood out most was how quickly technologies like this evolve. They'll be attempting to drive a new level of consumerism in a time when we should be cutting back. How soon will it be until we start hearing others say, "Gee, I need to trade cars because I need a new navigation system/MP3 player..."
I like gadgets too, but I'd rather keep my car for a number of years and just upgrade the gadget, thank you very much.
This is just what we need - more distractions for the driver, who is already heavily distracted by the starbucks latte in one hand, newspaper in the other, and 3 screaming kids in the back seat.
"WTF is this bluescreen about?" screeeeeeech *crash*
"There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives.'"
He says that like it's a bad thing.
A car takes us from point A to point B. It's already the dumbest means of transport ever invented - Microsoft's meddling can hardly improve things. Leave the gadgets at home.
you had me at #!
Meanwhile the family in Baghdad just wants to make it through the day with all their limbs intact.
This reminds me of an old joke that makes me laugh even harder now that it's coming to fruition. It went something like this: "Did you hear? Microsoft was trying to work out a deal with Ford to create a car that ran on Microsoft Windows 95. The deal fell through though... turns out market research showed customers weren't interested in a car that crashed as soon as you started it up."
Exactly, I purchased my Tom Tom at Christmas and low and behold they don't make them anymore. There are pros and cons to having separate devices, and a fully integrated one. Personally, looking at the system as a whole unit would seem to be more expensive than updating separate components. This would allow you also to purchase units more suited to the users needs. A truck driver's needs are different than the commuter, etc.
But yes, the method of communications from the devices can be anything from cat5, usb, bluetooth, ir or whatever. Including interfacing to the actual car via a diagnostic port.
Funny how short the cycle is between what companies think the useful life of equipment is
and what I think it should be.
I recently spent a week driving a rented Ford Fusion equipped with Sync, and while it's definitely 1.0 technology, I think it's one of the most promising things for vehicle use in a long time.
To start, I paired the head unit with my phone as a bluetooth headset. I opted to transfer my address book to the head unit, which took about 5 minutes. From that point on, integration was total.
Then I spent about 5 minutes searching for the USB port so I could plug my ipod in, until I realized that the USB port was hidden inside the armrest. Once the ipod was connected, the screen was covered with an overlay of the Ford logo, and the controls on the ipod itself stopped working. In fact, the device was physically inaccessible to me while driving, because it had to be closed inside the armrest. I appreciated this feature a lot, as there is little more dangerous on the road these days than people futzing with text messages or music players while driving.
Once connected, the head unit began scanning the tags of all 7,000 songs on the ipod. This took about 15 minutes. Once this was complete, the unit was ready to go.
All status updates were spoken in a pleasant female voice.
To use Sync, I pressed a button on the wheel. The system responded by making a 'ding' sound. At this point I could access the phone or the stereo with voice commands:
"Call bob thomas at home."
"Play artist Underworld."
"Play album Frizzle Fry by Primus"
"Play song Ich Bin Ein Auslander by Pop Will Eat Itself" (chosen specifically to try and trip it up, didn't work)
"Satellite" to switch to Sirius, which was built in
"FM1" etc.
"What's playing now" to name the currently playing song.
Received text messages were read aloud by the system to me. Incoming calls rang through the stereo as the music dimmed, and could be answered by pressing the same button on the steering wheel. If I was listening to music on the ipod, it paused during the conversation, then resumed automatically once the conversation was over. The same applied to outbound calls.
The car I used was not equipped with integrated satellite navigation, so I can't speak as to how well that particular piece of the product works, but everything else was flawless. I never had a single false positive or false negative hit with the address book or the music list.
There were a couple of rough 1.0 edges:
-Setting up general shuffle play on the ipod appeared to be damn near impossible, but I also didn't read the manual so this could be user error. At any rate it wasn't intuitive.
-There was no integration with the head unit in tuner, CD, or satellite mode. I had to use hard buttons on the stereo itself for these uses. Presumably further integration for these features will come in future model years.
-No speech-to-text for responding to text messages.
On the whole I have to say that Microsoft has done a GREAT job with Sync. I never saw a single Windows logo, it never crashed, it worked exactly as expected, and it made using the car with my cell phone & ipod much safer, and much easier. It was rough going back to my late 90's honda knowing I would have to pull over again in order to change tracks and send/receive calls.
based on 500 miles with the product, I think I can recommend Sync with little hesitation.
Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
But wait 'till I get behind a firewall before you turn the key...
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
It appears as though you're trying to make a right turn. A.) Turning Help B.) How to insert your keys into your car. C.) Get Help from Microsoft.com
location brings ideas. this is just another crazy one. Washington state as a generalization is rather scary in many aspects beyond software, and the automobile is one of them...and they keep getting thier way. Let them segregate into the flunking world of fantasy and leave the rest of the planet needing tougher integrity alone.
If there is one place i wont tolerate Microsofts level of Q&A its in my car. In no way or form should anything in a car fail in any way whatsoever. Any glitch, bug or irregularity that dont matter much on a computer can actually kill people in a car. Anything that distracts me from my driving is a real true hazard for my life. I have heard enough stories and seen friends that has Microsofts products in their car to be afraid. If a car has Windows on it i wont buy it, period.
I cant imagine what the car manufacturers are thinking but i suspect they are paid to use Microsofts products. Since there are much better alternatives out there i cant think of any other reason.
HTTP/1.1 400
Do not worry. They will solve this problem by making cars that won't last as a whole for more than 5 years.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Now it will finally live up to its name...
"There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives."
This is a Good Thing! (tm)
Some majority of music players are Ipods (no?), which won't work with any Microsoft tools (comments here seem to imply Microsoft Sync works with Ipods? Even the newest DRM infested 3G nano?)
and if Apple got into this business, then your car would Only support an Ipod..
And Sony would insist on their memory stick,
and and..
This is just crying out for a public open standard.
Bavarian Purity Law of Rice Krispie Squares: Rice Krispies, Marshmallows, Butter, Vanilla.
I remember back when my dad was going to get a new car (actually a truck) and I asked him what features he was getting on it. You know, a good stereo, a/c, leather seats, power windows. "What do I need those for? I use the car to move me and stuff." While we did get him to settle for a/c he still rolls his own windows and is in cloth seats.
I have the same aversion for SYNC. First off it's features are given to you my other systems, IPods for music, Garmin et al. for GPS navigation, hands free cell phone for calling. The better thing is I can move the Garmin to another car. And yes, I know it's not a phone or an IPod, it just communicates via bluetooth with them but it seems like a lot of money for something I can, and have, already accomplished with my current setup.
Also, as a UI developer I really have to wonder how these are going to look in 3 years+. My old SUV had a HUGE cell phone with hands free. It also had an small antenna on the back. I've never used it since it was outdated when I bought the car used at 4 years old. Unless there's a way to update the system, and there very well might be, it's going to be obsolete fast. And would I need to subscribe to something? I'm getting tired of paying monthly fees for services on things I own.
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
Apparently, BMW found CE lacking, because they used it in their first-generation iDrive, then replaced it for later generations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDrive
With all the road-rage out there these days this sounds like a really bad idea. I hear that "Windows Drivers" are notoriously hard to understand when something goes wrong, and nearly impossible to negotiate with unless you have years of training. My advise is to keep your doors locked at all times.
bring new meaning to the phrase "per seat" CAL's
Good people go to bed earlier.
...and, I wonder if everyone driving these cars will be arrested.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070522-michigan-man-arrested-for-using-cafes-free-wifi-from-his-car.html
Camping on quad since 1996.
Cigarette lighter? The car I rented this past weekend didn't even have an ash tray, let alone a cigarette lighter. Mind you, it did come with two accessory power ports.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
So I've heard. Instead of mechanical feedback, computers can adjust values, etc. more precisely.
I bought a NavMan which uses Windows and which is a pile of wank. They seriously expect me to trust my life even more on this rubbish? Questions: 1) Where do I get an open source car? 2) Do I have to connect it to the Internet for Patch Tuesday if I use Windows? 3) Who will be the first to die in a card because of a BSOD? 4) Will there be a "Clippy" to ask me that "I appear to be driving"?
... more distraction while they are driving! I really hope they find the wisdom to only have something like a computer or internet in the backseats, and leave the front panel for navigation, controls for the phone, music, etc.
I have to wonder if we aren't making driving much more risky basically putting all this stuff in the car. I know when I'm driving, even when I'm not listening to music or anything, I'm glad my attention was not so absorbed by something else that I would not have been able to react to idiots many times.
We can leave the idea of having a 'home and office in the car' until we have technology that drives our cars for us. Sometimes I hope they do some serious research on distractibility because the road already has enough idiots on it.
I won't say it never happened,but I'd really like to see a link
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Is why my next car will not be a Ford.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Gives an entirely new meaning to the Blue Screen of Death, doesn't it?
Since I have a 1965 Mecury that I've driven my entire driving life, and been working in technology just as long, this list has not changed, only updated as technology emerges, in over 20 years: - In-dash replacement for aftermarket radio unit (in-trunk and external sensor modules allowed) (Optional upgrade: in-dash flip-out monitor) - Music player that can be updated with new codex as they emerge. - Syncronize with external music source. (Hardware/software updateable for: bluetooth, WiFi, WiMax, WiWhatever...) - Hand-free speaker phone. (i.e., pair with any bluetooth enabled phone) - Voice command. - GPS. (with turn by turn navigation and real-time traffic from a choice of services) - Alarm with logging (when a door was tampered with, etc.) (Optional upgrade: text me when the alarm goes off!) - Programmability: This is where anyone can do anything with their car. Control your airbagged lowrider with an iPhone. Put the top up on a convertible when rain is detected. Any other features that I should include?
Dear auto makers,
I refuse to use Microsoft software and have no desire to contribute financially to this company. How much does it cost to have Microsoft software removed and where do I file for a refund on the licensing costs?
I would like MS to sell hardware 100% Linux compatible (without any DRM), and give up on software side.
I always try to keep away from *everything* they touch (including computers;)
Car accidents can happen to good people, but bad people shall not accidentally build a car.
If they add in the ability to buy fuel management tools to reprogram your fuel maps for aftermarket products.
Oh yeah, and I want it to record diagnostic information. For cars already with a diagnostics port on their on board computer, they should be able to plug it in and listen to what their car is telling them. The manufactures shouldn't monopolize the data to make their cars run better.
It gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "Blue Screen of Death" doesn't it?
Blue Wind Screen of Death or how to give a computer crash a whole new meaning....
The down side is if you try and run someone off the road and your car might be BSOD'd by the guy behind you with a Ping-O-Death. Your car simply drops off the net and the other cars won't be able to "actively" avoid you in quite the same way.
Including interfacing to the actual car via a diagnostic port.
Now that is something that desperately needs to exist in a standardised form. The only part of car audio that's even remotely standard is ISO headunit size (and many modern cars don't have ISO size headunits fitted in the factory - some even link functions like the alarm to the radio so you can't easily replace it). A port into which you could plug an MP3 player, mobile phone or satnav and have the steering wheel controls so common on modern cars do everything would be great.
Then the customers will realize that the dealer charged them $1,000 for a GPS add-on which they can buy for $200.
It's the Big Blue mentality all over again. Cars are nothing more than Big Iron. They're just a stupid engine on 4 wheels...but the way people talk about them, you'd think the car companies had actually some magical way to make the darn things.
Even average application software in general use is 100s of times more complex than making a car is.
Hasan
All those 'if MS was making car' jokes will actually become relevant reality!! I am getting off the road... imagine BSODs that the cars will get!
You can't handle the truth.
http://www.linux.com/feature/135687
My computer has performed an illegal operation..
Another reason to ride a bike.
I thought about building a CarPC a few years ago.
I priced touchscreen LCD's and embedded motherboards, drew designs for metal boxes and a power supply to run the thing, thought about how I was going to set the thing up in the car without destroying the interior, then got frustrated with it all and gave up.
Now I have also gigs of music at my fingertips, but with much less fucking around.
http://www.riocar.org/
You can get these old things for quite a bit cheaper than you can build a CarPC - mine cost $200 from a guy on empegbbs.com, plus $50 for a 80 gig laptop hard drive.
It doesn't do GPS, album art, drive-by wifi or anything fancy like that. It plays music and that's pretty much all it does, but it does that well.
There are a few pain-in-the-ass things about it - the "fastest" way to get music on it is 10BaseT ethernet, it doesn't have a built-in amplifier, and it only fits in cars which accept an aftermarket radio in one of those bendy metal DIN cage things. But if you don't mind those things, it's a pretty sweet solution for having music in your car.
And yes, it runs Linux.
I'm just hoping it doesn't brick while driving it. It certainly gives new meaning to: "My system crashed".
Wait for it! Microsoft Hooptie: Proprietary, gets viruses, performance degrades after 3 years. You can't buy a car without paying the Hooptie price.
MUSTELASBURG, Deutsche Demokratische Republik, Monday (Neues Deutschland) - Microsoft and Trabant have unveiled a complete new software system for car drivers. The "Sink" platform, introduced at the Mustelasburg auto show, will be available in over 12 Trabant vehicles this year.
The agreement is part of a constant quest by Microsoft, the world's largest software maker, for fresh vistas beyond the office supply market it dominates. Trabant, meanwhile, hopes that new technology will help it solve the problem of dwindling market share even in its home German market. "The market potential is absolutely enormous," said Markus Fields, Trabant's president for the DDR.
The Trabant Langeshorn promises to be "an experience like no other." Microsoft is bringing its expertise to bear on all aspects of the new Trabant Langeshorn:
"The thrust of our new model of car is to make it more attractive to Trabant owners," said Steve Ballmer, Microsoft CEO. "Any Trabant driver knows Ferrari owners are just losers with penis-size issues and that their market share is insignificant. Ferrari just keeps proving over and over that it can't come out with a popularly priced Trabant-like model."
Microsoft expected its marketing muscle to go far in this new market battle. "Just imagine the joy a Ferrari mechanic will feel when they finally get to work on a market leader with industry muscle behind it like the Trabant."
http://rocknerd.co.uk
to post this while I'm driving down the Interstate. It's really convenient to *^&%(*&(*& +++ NO CARRIER
Before car manufacturers spend money on Microsoft shit, I would much prefer them to add a small system to display and interpret the engine diagnostics rather than having to take it to the dealership and be charged a small fortune for connecting their maufacturer supplied diagnostic unit (which cost them a LARGE fortune).
I have a built-in GPS in my Jeep. I didn't want one, it just came with the car. I gave away my Megallan GPS to my son, and have regretted it ever since. The POS installed in the Jeep doesn't cover turn-by-turn for the whole US, just around big cities (in a JEEP !!!).
I paid a fortune for an "upgrade" CD. Turns out about the only difference between that and the one I had was basically the part number. Maps were still 5 years out of date.
As fot Sync -- that would be a deal killer for me. Even if they tried to give it away for free, I would go somewhere else and pay more before allowing that crap anywhere near a car of mine.
Rather than making cars into dangerous offices-on-the-road maybe they should think about how to make people into better drivers! GPS helps when used properly (the idiot who can barely stay off your bumper doesn't need to choose between 100 restaurants), but things like active collision avoidance, lane-change warning, assisted visual etc. could save lives.
"There's such a disconnect between what people experience in their cars and what they experience in the rest of their lives. It hasn't really evolved that much."
They act all surprised, like they did not realize the potential 20 years ago. They have just been juicing us for all the money they can get, while preventing other smaller businesses from doing anything by holding a monopoly on computing. All the while judges sit back and do nothing. If you really follow the fault it all goes back to the judicial branch of government.
The most polite word I can think of to describe anyone who adds more distractions for a driver in a car is "irresponsible".
Devices here: http://www.v8power.com/cat--Mustang-Computer-Tuning--comp.html
It's quite elegant, actually. You can override the factory parameters to get more 1) acceleration 2) horsepower 3) better fuel economy or 4) less pollution. Regardless of what all the conspiracy theorists say, pick any ONE. Perhaps TWO. You can't optimize for all FOUR any more than Detroit already has.
Back to topic: one of the guys who worked with me races the Mustang he drives to work on the weekends at the drag strip. One morning he called in and said the parameters he had loaded last night didn't work, his car wouldn't start, and he couldn't come in until he figured out what settings to put back in and reflash the car...
Blame the fucking Americans for murdering them.
I can't wait to have to pull my car over because the central license servers are down. Keep Microsoft "subscriber based" operating software out of my vehicle please, Ford (et al.).
You have (Re) invented the UNIX philosophy (of home entertainment systems)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
( as opposed to the monolithic TV-with-built-in-VCR ; foul a 2-dollar tape ...and THROW IT AWAY!)
Some people have mentioned that the part of that car that is controlled by Windows is not critical to the car's motion.
It is possible however for the entertainment system to cause accidents. I'm sure any of you who have used Windows have had the audio system die in it, requiring you to use the task manager to turn off the sound blasting through the speakers.
Now just imagine this: You're doing 100KM/H on the freeway when the kids in the back seat start screaming, which the car interprets as "Increase Volume", then the system crashes and you are desperately whacking away at the dashboard trying to get the 40dB of classical music to stop.
Now pray you can just walk away when the system freezes... Oh you want to upgrade the OS? Need the latest newest car.
...otherwise your fuel consumption will double overnight!
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
TFA says "doubling down" and then says a "30 percent increase"... nowhere do I see any real numbers.
Yeah, I spent $1 last year and I'm spending $1.30 this year! Whooo a 30% increase.
Whatever...
+++OK ATH