Mapping Google Maps

jgwebber writes "Google Maps is starting to cause a bit of a stir as Google makes the browser do still more backflips than most expected. In the tradition of dissecting Google Suggest and GMail, I've done a little dissecting of this newest service."

Comments

what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[garcia]

What I would like to see them add is something like what GPSVisualizer does. It will allow you to upload a GPX or LOC file of waypoints (from your GPS or various other programs) and plot them on a map. Because GPSVisualizer requires the SVG plugin (or native support) it would be nice to have an advanced application like Google has that doesn't require such support yet is as smooth/speedy as Google Maps is.

It would be awesome if Google could completely take over the commercial mapping software application market (ie Streets and Trips/Mappoint and Street Atlas) by enabling routing/directions between the points on the map. Hell, allow us to then download the planned route back to the GPSs via a GPX and that would really rock. I mean web-based applications such as maps.google.com and maps.yahoo.com have already taken over from older programs like Automap which just gave text directions and simple maps. Why can't they add even more features? I don't know anyone that asks for directions anymore. Everyone just uses the web-based software.

For now I'm just happy being impressed by the pretty scrolling. I'm excited to see what comes of this after the finish up the Beta.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Moby Cock]

Remember that Google purchased Keyhole a while back. They are a satellite imaging firm. I wonder (or hope) that somehow this technology could be merged with the excellent Google maps. Imagine a "See Photo" button once you have found the location of whatever it was you were looking for. Now that would be cool.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you tried usaphotomaps from JDMCOX?

USAPhotoMaps downloads aerial photo and topo map data from Microsoft's free TerraServer Web site, saves it on your hard drive, and creates seamless maps from it. You can:
1. See the latitude/longitude
2. Add waypoints, routes, and text
3. Jump to any waypoint or latitude/longitude in the U.S.A.
4. Transfer waypoints, tracks, and routes to and from most GPS receivers
5. See your GPS location
6. Scroll and zoom

And it's free.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[ackthpt]

It would be awesome if Google could completely take over the commercial mapping software application market (ie Streets and Trips/Mappoint and Street Atlas) by enabling routing/directions between the points on the map. Hell, allow us to then download the planned route back to the GPSs via a GPX and that would really rock.

While I've fiddled with it and found the interface to have it's up-sides and down-sides (not really very big considering it's a web app.) I think you're looking for functionality at a whole other level, i.e. competing with Delorme or such, which could prove a challenge. I've got the Delorme package on my PC at home and the volume of information its processing to produce things would kill Google's servers. Besides, Delorme is Topo and Google's isn't, and Topo information is actually very useful when travelling. When I moved west I drove a truck, pulling a trailer with my car on it, up a road I never should have taken. Perhaps the squiggly road on a decent map would have given the appropriate clue, not to take that road because of the high pass. Google could at least include some elevation data in their images as an option.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Ucklak]

Good point about elevation but remember;
a) It's beta
b) Google want to target local search instead of cross country travel

Type pizza or consignment and you'll see what Google is after.

Pretty awesome app.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[parkrrrr]

GPS Visualizer piggybacks on MSN Terraserver for some of their imagery. For some reason I can't see MSN taking too kindly to Google doing the same thing.

According to the FA, the route information is transmitted to the client in some encoded form, then sent back to Google to request a PNG file. If someone could reverse-engineer that encoded form, and if it actually contained usable information, you could probably find someone who'd be willing to write a module for GPSBabel to handle it.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Anonymous Coward]

For now I'm just happy being impressed by the pretty scrolling

I scrolled right for a long time but Europe never came into view.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[AviLazar]

t would be awesome if Google could completely take over the commercial mapping software application market

So what you are saying is that you want Google to have a monopoly?

Well since it's Google - they can be fully trusted - lets give it to them.............

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[parkrrrr]

And fortunately for us, Google makes it easy by giving us JavaScript code to decrypt the "points" string, and it does indeed contain latitudes and longitudes. Here's the equivalent Perl code, with almost all the same variable names as their JS code, with leading indentation stripped (thanks Slashdot!) Encoded string in $XX, decoded lat/lon pairs to stdout in CSV format. Feed that output to GPSBabel as "arc" format, and you should be able to simplify it and upload it to your GPS receiver.

my $Ch=length($XX);
my $pb = 0;
my @aa;
my $Ka = 0;
my $Pa = 0;

while($pb<$Ch) {
my $ub;
my $oc=0;
my $Fa=0;
do {
$ub=ord(substr($XX,$pb++,1))-63;
$Fa |= ($ub&31)<<$oc;
$oc+=5;
} while($ub>=32);

$Ka=$Ka+(($Fa&1)?((1-$Fa)/2):($Fa>>1));
push @aa, $Ka;
$oc=0;
$Fa=0;
do {
$ub=ord(substr($XX, $pb++, 1))-63;
$Fa |= ($ub&31)<<$oc;
$oc+=5;
} while($ub>=32);
$Pa=$Pa+(($Fa&1)?((1-$Fa)/2):($Fa>>1));
push @aa, $Pa;
}

for (my $i = 0; $i< $#aa; $i++) {
print $aa[$i]/1e5 . ', ' . $aa[++$i]/1e5 . "\n";
}

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Deviate_X]

http://map.search.ch/ is more similar to Keyhole (on the dynamics) and and even more interesting use of dhtml than googles first attempt.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[parkrrrr]

And of course it has bugs (mine, not theirs.) The two places where it says (1-$Fa) should say (-1-$Fa).

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Anonymous Coward]

there is already software out there that allows you to map out like this and then apply a GIS filter over it. But that cost money. If they were to offer this for free (well somewhere they be making money) that would be nice

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[robertjw]

Actually I've thought of this. Someone should setup a site where we can all submit pictures of our houses/streets. Aggregate it all together and you can get a picture of any street in the world. That would be slick.

Of course, then I started calculating bandwidth, storage and maintenance costs and decided it wasn't worth it to me.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Edzor]

Real men dont use Google Maps.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Dolly_Llama]

Shit, that code practically debugs itself, doesn't it?

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[ArsonSmith]

Until they abuse it I'm all for it.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[fishicist]

Multimap here in the UK does a good job of combining maps with aerial photographs. It even overlays a transparancy of the map.

The photos are at least a few years old, but it's still pretty, if not particularly useful.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[LakeSolon]

Thanks man. I was hoping someone would volunteer some code to decode that, though I was thinking maybe code that was at least as readable points data. Do I live with the kludge of calling an external perl script, or try to turn that into equivalent java? ugh.

~Lake

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[LakeSolon]

Here are two things on my todolist:

Convert Long/Lat into Tile X Y to download specific image tiles.

Associate steps in directions with a long / lat.

Anyone managed either of those yet?

~Lake

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Big Sean O]

Competition is good.

I used to use Mapquest for maps (because they had aerial photos) but when they cheaped out, I tried maps.yahoo.com and got hooked.

Another reason I switched is I felt that Mapquest seemed to only feature its partners (like holiday inn hotels). Yahoo also features its partners, but at least that includes Marriott hotels (and that's where my points accumulate).

It seems that the Google Maps beta already looks nicer than Yahoo and Mapquest. If they can avoid icky ad placement (which I have complete faith they will), then they've got another winner, IMHO.

The only problem I found so far: I searched for an address in "Des Planes, Illinois" and got no results. Turns out that it's spelled "Des Plaines". It's a minor quibble, but Google seems to know when I misspell ever other fcuking word.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[macshit]

Yes! That seems sooooo much better than Google's attempt (though Google's interface is very elegant). Please mod the parent up.

My main complaint with maps.google.com is that the maps seem so "dead" -- they contain roads, major bodies of water, "parks", and bugger-all else. I don't feel like I'm looking at a real place, and many of the cues I apparently use when looking at paper maps aren't being triggered.

Granted Google's just starting out, and something as incredible as what map.search.ch does might not be easy for the entire U.S., but I certainly hope Google can do better than they are.

[My worry is that Google will deem such a "roads and directions only" approach acceptable because their main market is the car-obsessed U.S.]

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you know how one would go about encoding a list of X,Y's? (or is it even possible?) I've tried to muck around with the decoding function for about an hour but I'm not good with all the bitwise operations going on.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[dazza101]

Another free and previously /.'d program is Worldwind. Which not only gives you the USGS 1m b&w images, but high res ortho 30cm resolution images in the US and worldwide Landsat imagery in 3D!
Oh, and version 1.2e has just been released!

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Sheriff of Rockridge]

The "car obsessed US" IS google's target market, and they have succeeded once again in simplifying another facet of the cluttered internet app market. It it fast, sleek, and effective. And you can bet that Mapquest, Yahoo!, and Microsoft are frantically trying to come up with something similar.

If terrain maps and satelite images are what you are looking for (similar to http://map.search.ch/), try Keyhole. It's wonderful.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Anonymous Coward]

while($pb=32);

Jesus Christ, that crap looks like a cross between FORTRAN and Perl! It's no wonder that folks consider Perl a write-only language if people refuse to use variable names that are longer than 2 characters or do the sensible thing by not declaring variables until they are needed. I swear it looks like you intentionally avoided any sensible programming style.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or my program, viking, for both Linux & Windows... Only terraserver for now, but I'm working out street maps, and I'm definitely going to implement this when I find the time and figure out the tiles thing. This is great stuff, tiled maps without ads, a lot better than this method I have with expedia maps and cutting off the advertisements...

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Anonymous Coward]

erm... I didn't sleep much last night... that should be viking.sf.net ... and it's GPL'd

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Anonymous Coward]

And that invariably someone would feel the need to submit the goatse image repeatedly. Then you'd need to have people review images before they could go live. Then you'd have people sign up under different names and spam all sorts of stuff. In short it's probably easier to just have someone hire a whole bunch of other people to drive around and take pictures like amazon does with a9 or whatever it's called.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[parkrrrr]

Well, it is THEIR variable names, other than $XX, which is my fault. I assume they used short ones to minimize download time.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[parkrrrr]

Yes, it's possible.

First, multiply all your lats and lons by 1e5.

Now, take the first lat, and encode it (encode function to be specified later.) Append that to the string. Do the same with the first lon.

Now, take the DIFFERENCE between the second lat and the first one, and encode that. Append that to the string. Again, do the same with the second lon.

For each additional lat/lon, encode the difference from the previous one.

Now, the encoding:

If the number you have is negative, multiply by two and take the logical not. Otherwise, just multiply by two. Notice that this makes the least significant bit the sign bit.

Now break the number into 5-bit chunks. Encode the least significant chunk first, by casting to a byte, adding 32 if there are more nonzero chunks to come, and then adding 63. Repeat for each 5-bit chunk. Skip trailing (MSB) zero chunks, but always output at least one chunk for each number. (That's why there are so many ? symbols: it encodes a difference of zero from the previous lat or lon. Note that this means you'll also never see three ? symbols in a row.)

I haven't played with the 'levels' string yet; I assume it's used for removing details as you zoom out, and based on the characters that appear in it it may use the same encoding method except without the delta compression. The rest of the XML looks self-explanatory.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Anonymous Coward]

Awesome - thanks a lot.. besides the obfuscation all the bitwise manipulation was really mind-bending -- at least for me!

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[parkrrrr]

Here ya go, rewritten with some proper spacing and good variable names. The variable scope, even in the original code, was about as small as was reasonable. That is, "not declaring variables until they are needed" was already handled. Again, the lack of proper indention is Slashdot's fault.

my $strLen = length( $encoded );
my $index = 0;
my @coords;
my $lat = 0;
my $lon = 0;

while( $index < $strLen ) {
my $chunk = 0;
my $shift = 0;
my $delta = 0;
do {
$chunk = ord(substr($encoded,$index++,1))-63;
$delta |= ( $chunk & 31) << $shift;
$shift += 5;
} while ( $chunk >= 32 );

$lat = $lat + (($delta & 1) ? ((-1 - $delta) / 2):($delta >> 1));
push @coords, $lat;
$shift = 0;
$delta = 0;
do {
$chunk = ord(substr($encoded, $index++, 1))-63;
$delta |= ($chunk & 31) << $shift;
$shift += 5;
} while( $chunk >= 32);
$lon = $lon + (($delta & 1) ? ((-1 - $delta) / 2) : ($delta >> 1));
push @coords, $lon;
}

for (my $i = 0; $i< $#coords; $i++) {
print $coords[$i]/1e5 . ', ' . $coords[++$i]/1e5 . "\n";
}

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[SwornPacifist]

Click on the dynamically updated "Link to this page"

sample link:
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=48.051331%2C -122.55 3038&spn=0.042908%2C0.078309

Latitude:48.051331
Longitude:-122.553038

Isn't that a little simpler? You can also plug in your own GPS coords into the URL, and load it up

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[parkrrrr]

Yes, but this code isn't actually about putting waypoints on the map, regardless of what the subject might say. This code is about taking the computed route and putting it in a form that can be used with a GPS receiver or other mapping software.

For what it's worth, I've actually taken the output from that Perl script and fed it to Street Atlas 2003. It lined up well enough with the streets that whatever differences there were are probably due to either the age of the data or the compression that DeLorme applies.

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, the same thing happened to Condoleezza...

Re:what about plotting waypoints on the map?

[gfreeman]

I scrolled right for a long time but Europe never came into view.

From the US perspective, pretty much everything is to the left.

Still doesn't work with Safari

[Anonymous Coward]

I find this interesting because Google's response, if you load maps.google.com in safari, isn't "we don't care about your platform, bugger off", it's a short, apologetic note saying that they don't work in Safari yet but you can try one of these other browsers. This seems to indicate the problem isn't with Google's javascript, it's with Safari, Google's javascript is more than Safari can handle.

Hell if I were a browser company I'd pay Google a small consulting fee just to find bugs in my browser. You know, give them some cash and say "have your javascript fellows write the most fucked up thing you can, i am paying you to break my browser".

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[jdwest]

A similar message was posted for Safari users when gmail was first coming online in its earlier beta versions.

I do remember a Google spokesperson expressing in a news story that Mac/Safari users were very important to Google, and gmail would be working with Safari soon (at that time).

A month or so later, all was well with Apple's browser and gmail.

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[fishyfool]

seems to be a konqueror issue. and since Safari is based on konqueror it has the issue as well?

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[LEgregius]

Actually, it works fairly well in safari. There is a link at the bottom of the page that allows you to open the page anyway, and the it seems to function already.

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[Anonymous Coward]

Safari is based on the khtml component, not konq per se. It has gradually drifted away from khtml, and even renders some sites differently now. Supporting one doesn't automatically mean supporting the other.

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[Anonymous Coward]

It's funny. Five years ago, people said "Everyone uses Internet Explorer, so you Netscape users should kindly upgrade your browser." Today, it's "Everyone uses Internet Explorer or Firefox, so you Safari / Konqueror / Opera / lynx / OmniWeb / Amaya / w3m / telnet users can go download something else."

If this were any other company than Google doing this "your browser is not welcome" routine, Slashdot would have raked them over the coals months ago.

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[Anonymous Coward]

If this were any other company than Google doing this "your browser is not welcome" routine, Slashdot would have raked them over the coals months ago.

You mean if any other company created a first-release, free beta product, but didn't support one of the minority browsers for about a month after release?

No. You are on crack. No one would care.

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[Anonymous Coward]

Google maps is still in Beta. Give 'em time to work it out. Getting it to work with Safari isn't as high a priority as Firefox (and of course, IE.) Why not have Firefox as a second browser, anyway?

While Safari is a great browser this is far from the only page it has trouble with.

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[Anonymous Coward]

Google never releases anything beyond beta any more, so your point is moot.

Now please go stand outside the Cathedral and wait for more of Google's table scraps.

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[Anonymous Coward]

Only to a point. I'm messing with it and it has some issues, i can't get it to search for a specific street location, and if i try to zoom in past a certain point everything just goes blue.

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[Anonymous Coward]

Google's definition of Beta is that they haven't figured out how to make money from it yet.

But Google Maps is definitely beta quality at best, there are plenty of bugs with it.

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[Em Adespoton]

The problem isn't with javascript, it's with XSLT. If you read the article, you'll notice that the XML transforms are done using XSLT -- and Safari is currently the only browser I've used that doesn't support XSLT. Supposedly it will be in the next version of Safari, so it looks like Google has decided to use it now, and let the browser catch up, instead of using an older technology hack. I hope this provides some incentive for the Safari team to get XSLT working soon, as I have a number of projects that depend on it. http://www.plattiblog.com/2004/08/16.html seems to hint that there has been some progress.

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[jp10558]

Opera seems to be the other browser that doesn't support XSLT. I'm not sure why Opera doesn't support it, but given the response to GMail, I figure Opera will implement it soon.

Re:Still doesn't work with Safari

[smokestacklightning]

Correct - this isn't a fault of the app - but is a fault of the browser - if Safari had gone with Gecko, this ( and the numerous previously mentioned incompatibilities ) wouldn't be an issue. Granted, hindsight is 20/20, I didn't think that mozilla would have the traction it does now ... Personally, I still get pissy when CapitalOne says that Firefox is not a secure "trusted" platform to log into my account with.

Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[aaron240]

Google is bravely doing fantastic thing with client-side programming...something many websites have given up on because of cross-browser incompatibility. My money is definitely on Google being very aggressive with Mozilla/XUL based on this work. That's going to be good times!

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[Anonymous Coward]

It's because client-side javascript is a TOY language that no one wants to sully themselves with, remember?

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[bcmm]

Have you seen this

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[ad0gg]

You forgot to thank Microsoft for going outside of the standards and implementing XMLHttpRequest in IE5.0. Got so popular everyone started copying it. You see how gmail and google maps can change the content page without loading up a new page? Thats XMLHttpRequest, non standardized browser object.

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[realdpk]

Cute, but it needs something to carry over into the results.

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[arkanes]

IE actually had this functionality before, via the DHTML download behavior. They implemented the XMLHttpRequest for a compatible API.

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[aaron240]

Ah, you're right. Thank you Microsoft for your great work in promoting standards.

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[Anonymous Coward]

Err?

XMLHttpRequest is part of Javascript and is supported in mozilla and safari and Opera. You might be thinking of the Microsoft.XMLHTTP ActiveX object that has been repeatedly nerfed for exploitable bugs?

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[drew]

XmlHttpRequest is not an official part of JavaScript, and is not covered by any existing standard. Yes, it is supported by all of the major browsers *now*, but as far as I'm aware it was implemented by Microsoft first, and copied by the rest later. (In fact, as far as I'm aware, XmlHttpRequest is still not supporeted in any release version of Opera, unless Opera has released a new version with ~the last month. It was only added to the beta versions fairly recently.)

Unless you can show which W3C (or other) standard applies to XmlHttpRequest? The page you linked to says nothing of standards- only how to use it.

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[drew]

And which standard are they promoting with XmlHttpRequest?

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[hey!]

Yeah, javascript might be a toy, although there's a bit more there than meets the eye, but DOM is definitely not a toy.

Languages are important, but even more important is the runtime environment they have access to. If the environment has the basic stuff you need, then even a crappy language would be pretty powerful. Think of a templating language like velocity -- it's not designed to be powerful by itself, but to be very convenient to integrate with a context that supplies it with everything it needs to do powerful things.

Years ago, in the era of of the 16MHz microprocessor, I had the problem of writing an Exel spreadsheet that required lookups from huge tables. Using VLOOKUP took hours. So I implemented a double hash algorithm in the Excel macro language. Mind you, this wasn't VB for apps, this was the nasty old lotus-y macro language. It turned out to be easy, because the spreadsheet environment provided most of the lumber I needed, I just had to snap it together.

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[bcmm]

Absolutely.
However, I take this as a sign they are at least considering something more interesting.


Unless it is just part of their well-known secret plan to produce a Google-branded Firefox, operating system and fast-food chain, of course...

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[Bitsy Boffin]

javascript might be a toy

Javascript is no toy. It's a really flexible and powerful language which I find very well suited to event-driven systems.

As you say though, the runtime environment is more important and unfortunatly JS is for the most part (but not always) limited to running in browsers.

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[ashot]

but.. I thought that they were infallible..

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[ashot]

preview first..preview first..

<!-- Why does onkeyup, check for 13, seem like a really dumb thing? -->
<textbox id="q" persiste="value" maxlength="200"
onkeypress="if (event.which == 13) { doSearch('') }"/>
<button id="btnG" label="Google Search" default="true"

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[ikkonoishi]

CHR(13) = Carriage Return = ENTER

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[Baloo Ursidae]

Google is bravely doing fantastic thing with client-side programming...something many websites have given up on because of cross-browser incompatibility. My money is definitely on Google being very aggressive with Mozilla/XUL based on this work. That's going to be good times!

Vendor lock-in is a Bad Thing. Did you learn nothing from the Microsoft Dynasty, which is starting to wind down as we speak thanks to vendor lock-in?

Re:Google + DOM = Mozilla Juggernaut

[NutscrapeSucks]

Yes, but common Javascript actions like Alert boxes and popup windows are not part of any official standard. Even for common HTML/Form stuff, the W3C DOM spec is not very complete.

backflips?

[Quasar1999]

Either the browser supports it, or doesn't... stop personifying software... it does what it designed to do. Just because other pages out there don't use certain features doesn't mean the browser is doing some amazing task by supporting features.

Re:backflips?

[Shadow Wrought]

...stop personifying software...

I agree, software hates being personified.

Re:backflips?

[TedTschopp]

Trust me, getting PNG transparancy / Alpha Channel support in IE is a backflip.

Re:backflips?

[Bandman]

wow, someone's being a little bit crabby today, huh?

What's the matter? Feeling left out of the fun?

By the way, complaining that people are being clever really just implies that you happen to lack that quality.

Re:backflips?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes it does. The wow factor comes not just in the features, but how awesome they look. They're approaching regular application functionality in a web app. That's something special. They didn't even need java or .NET so it's even snazzier.

Let us be amazed and go worry about word-choice elsewhere.

Re:backflips?

[therevolution]

Sheesh... chill out. It's natural for people to personify non-human things. In order to understand foreign concepts, we have to put it at a level we already understand.

While "backflips" might not have been the best analogy, I'm sure what he means is that Google is once again using Javascript in unusual and/or advanced ways to do what it's doing.

Re:backflips?

[m50d]

Only some browsers do. It won't work in konqueror. So it's sort of impressive that they've persuaded IE and gecko to behave in the same way when it's a non-standard thing they're doing.

Re:backflips?

[tesmako]

It has been well-documented and well-known for ages how to do PNG alpha channels in IE. The stereotypical slashdot whine is about it not being done automatically with just the standard tag (not a huge complaint for the ambitious, the extra piece of code needed to make IE work with it does not interfere with other browsers that worked already).

Re:backflips?

[snorklewacker]

Ooh, new sig idea. Thanks.

Re:backflips?

[Rakshasa Taisab]

But I like the OS-tan's and I'm in love with Firefox-ko. Why do you want to kill those cute girls?

Re:backflips?

[Anonymous Coward]

Friendly suggestion, "My computer hates being anthropomorphized." would flow better, and just be funnier all around ;)

Re:backflips?

[timster]

Change that to "she doesn't like it" and you're set.

Re:backflips?

[Shadow Wrought]

Anytime;-)

One of my wife's friends is a retired physics professor. We had a talk once in which he was railing against the anthropomorphization of everyday objects. Since objects aren't supposed to have feelings one way or the other, it got me thinking about how many things in my own life that I anthropomorphize. So given a choice between (a) changing my tendencies to anthropomorphize, or (b) accept that I anthropomorphize and be done with it. Instead I chose (c). I realized that since anthropomorphized objects behave better than non-anthropomorphized objects, that they were the ones wanting to be anthropomorphized. Who was I to argue?

Re:backflips?

[Anonymous Coward]

post link, pls, so whiney n00bz such as myself can find out how. thanks!

Re:backflips?

[timeOday]

Either the browser supports it, or doesn't... it does what it designed to do.

What planet do you live on, where software does just what it was intended to do, and nothing more?

If that were true, first off, there would be no security vulnerabilities.

And you wouldn't have people in an online strategy game stacking dozens of chairs to get to the top of a tower instead fighting their way up the staircase as they were meant to do.

The original designers of HTML never foresaw all the crazy tricks people would use TABLE tags to accomplish.

Anytime you have more than a simple mechanism, the possible outcomes become unforseeable. That's the fun of it!

Re:backflips?

[Clover_Kicker]

Not a new sig idea...

Re:backflips?

[Mitchell Mebane]

You could just use IE7.

Re:backflips?

[hey!]

Well, sure, but that's just one point among many.

You put everything together, and creating a consistent cross browser experience with something that plays so many tricks with the browser is like jumping into a pool full of crap, swimming a lap, and coming out smelling like a rose.

Looked at one way, the application's features are rudimentary. Looked at another, the means used are pretty extraordinary.

Re:backflips?

[UserGoogol]

The Jargon File seems to suggest that personifying software is a common tendency in Geek/Hacker culture. I imagine it has ESR's debatable fingerprints all over it, but it seems like a valid argument.

Re:backflips?

[davegust]

Here.

It's a fairly nice solution. Add one .HTC file to your server, and add one style for IMG tags to your style sheet.

Re:backflips?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't really understand the definition of that word, do you?

Re:backflips?

[p3d0]

There's nothing worse than debatable fingerprints.

Re:backflips?

[paskal]

Even easier - a JavaScript solution - just add this one file at the beginning of your HTML page, and you're done.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/

Re:backflips?

[TedTschopp]

I know there are several ways to do this, but when taken with everything else, it's impressive. The thing that I think is cool is that at any other company a web project of this size would have been killed in its concept stage or changed radically to be done mostly on the server tier as opposed to the presentation tier because it is built of many of these 'tricks.' No normal manager would approve of such a 'risk'.

Re:backflips?

[davegust]

That solution has some problems.

• It requires each page to be modified - the CSS solution can be added to an external style sheet, which most well designed sites already have.
• It doesn't handle dynamic updates to the SRC attribute of the IMG tag.
• It rewrites the IMG tag so that attributes not explicitly handled by the script are lost (alt?)

Combination

[augustz]

Google:

- Nice company
- Cool services
- Sweet interfaces

That is a rocking combination.

The fact that they seem to be making stuff available under Firefox as well is also great.

Re:Combination

[lucabrasi999]

While I'll give you the last two, I do have to question the term "nice company". The "niceness" of a corporation depends upon your point of view.

Re:Combination

[waynelorentz]

Damned straight. Corporations like the World Wildlife Fund and The United Way and the Salvation Army and Goodwill Industries are going to ruin the Earth. We should outlaw all corporations! That will fix everything. If we get rid of corporations, everyone will have jobs and food and there will be world peace and all the happy little nerds can read Slashdot in their parents' basement while drinking Free Beer(tm).

Re:Combination

[identity0]

Kinda makes you wonder, though, how much cool stuff could be produced if all the geeks in the other companies were allowed to do side-projects that get released. Too often managers look at geek projects and think "Why are you wasting company time/resources on this?" instead of trying to leverage it for their company.

Microsoft Research sounds like they have some smart people, but very little of it seems to actually get out to the public...

Too bad other companies have dismantled their R&D arms completely as "cost cutting".

Old info

[suprchunk]

Pretty neat, but the info they have on some of that stuff is pretty dated.

Re:Old info

[networkBoy]

It fairly successfully mapped Folsom, CA to Wilsey, KS which is not on many maps. It even has the friggen farm roads in it's database!

I love how you can clock on a waypoint in the directions and it pops up a bubble window in the main map with a closeup detail!
-nB

Re:Old info

[lowrydr310]

Google maps is the first online map service that I used that accurately displays my hometown! A+ to Google, but where did they get their detailed maps from?

Re:Old info

[Reducer2001]

What, you thought those black helicopters belonged to the government?

Re:Old info

[superpulpsicle]

As long as you mention M$ Streets and Trips. This is the only app I give M$ their credit. Since it's bugfree, affordable, updated very nicely every year. It's also a cut above any web mapquest wannabe.

If google can rival M$ Streets and Trips, I'd like to see it. Google maps already do look better cleaner and neater than mapquest that's for sure. But that doesn't say enough.

Re:Old info

[Chundra]

In my area the helicopters are bright blue, red, yellow and green.

Re:Old info

[Leatherman]

Strangly the map of my hometown is a mix of outdated and new info. There is a street on the map that was put in about 3 years ago, but a road around an entire man made island is missing. The island has been there at least 20 years.

Re:Old info

[carninja]

Streets & Trips also uses GPS (The more expensive version even comes with a nifty lil USB GPS reciever) It really is an excellent program, only Microsoft's own MapPoint beats it. I highly suggest checking it out.

Re:Old info

[kd5ujz]

Probably from Keyhole.com, which they acquired not too long ago.

Re:Old info

[Anonymous Coward]

That's really clever and funny and cute how you write M$ instead of MS.

Safari support

[Staplerh]

Hmm, I wonder if this is why I can't use Google Maps with Safari:

I also think it bears noting that Google is pulling out all the stops to build rich web apps, no matter how weirdly they have to hack the browser to make them go. And I strongly believe that this is a trend that is here to stay -- XHTML Strict/CSS/etc be damned. At the end of the day, what really matters to users is compelling apps that let them get their work done quickly.

I'm not necessarily complaining, as I can use Firefox, but it is too bad that even Google can't get a webpage to render properly on any modern browser, such as Safari.

Oh well, I don't know that much about any of these 'browser hacks' that Google is doing, but hopefully their promised Safari support will come soon.

Re:Safari support

[nojomofo]

Does anybody else think that this behavior sounds like Microsoft? The "standards be damned, we're going to do something cool our way". Now granted, it's not their browser, so they're stuck with what browsers can do, but it does suck that this isn't truly cross-platform.

Re:Safari support

[garcia]

I'm not necessarily complaining, as I can use Firefox, but it is too bad that even Google can't get a webpage to render properly on any modern browser, such as Safari.

I assume you are saying that Firefox isn't modern? I really don't see how your complaint is any different than those posting yesterday from outside of the US (and lower .ca) that Google Maps didn't support their countries.

This is a BETA. They are going to target the largest group of surfers possible. In order to do that they are going to program the software to interface with the browsers that are most widely used (thus IE and Firefox). Yeah, Safari is great and all and I try to use it daily but Mac users (and nevermind those using Safari) are in the minority.

Just hold on tight and wait for Google to get to you. They will get around to it (just like they did for GMail) but you just have to be patient while they work through the Beta.

Re:Safari support

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not the author of the grandparent post, but if I am not mistaken you have misinterpreted them.

I believe when they said "any modern browser" they were expressing shock that there are any modern browsers which experience problems with Google Maps, rather than expressing shock that there do not exist any modern browsers which do not experience problems with Google Maps.

Re:Safari support

[Haydn Fenton]

If you've ever tried to make a webpage look correct in all browsers, you'll realise it's not as easy as opening up your fav WYSIWYG editor and making a page. Heck, even if you use plain old notepad and code the whole thing yourself, XHTML and CSS compliant, chances are (well it depends on the complexity of course) it still won't look the same in all browsers.
Then add the fact they use a heck of a lot of client-side scripting and technology that not all browsers currently support, and it's pretty amazing that they have it working in the majority of widely used browsers. If it doesn't work in a browser with (sorry, I don't know the stats for Sarafi, I'm assuming it's) around 1% or lower market share, trying to get it to work in that too would most likely break it for one of the more popular browsers.

As a web developer, you try to aim for compatability with the top browser or 2, maybe 3. Trying to get it working in them all would be more work than it's worth.

Re:Safari support

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed -- it's pretty clear that that's what he meant.

Re:Safari support

[cakoose]

Sometimes it's not difficult to provide equivalent functionality in a standards-compliant way (for example, the MSN portal). In such cases, it is best to stick to standards.

Given the relative complexity of Google's Maps website, I think it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt and accept the possibility that it is extremely hard to do this in a standards-compliant way. I think they may have chosen the option of giving each browser a slightly modified page and they just haven't gotten around to some of the other browsers yet.

Re:Safari support

[Grey Ninja]

Well, I've never developed this sort of stuff with Safari/Konqueror in mind. But I have written some pretty strong DHTML stuff... (A phone directory that worked entirely on the client is what I am immediately referring to.).

And I can see where Google is coming from. Sometimes, to make the cleanest interface possible, you have to use some really powerful tricks. Gmail uses the same sort of setup that I used in my phone directory... I haven't looked into the specs of Safari too much, but I do know that I couldn't find a way of making my phone directory work with Opera. Reason being that the browser just didn't have the capability that I needed (extra strength XML support). To the best of my knowledge at the time, only IE and Mozilla were sufficiently evolved to allow what I was doing.

It's true that it's not entirely standard... but it's powerful enough that Mozilla decided to break tradition and include support for doing such things. And by the time I finished my phone directory, I did make the code mostly standard... but it still didn't work in Opera.

And if you are curious, I developed it for a corporate Intranet, so the code is not available for viewing. (And I don't own the code, so I don't have a personal copy).

Re:Safari support

[2nd Post!]

Of course the difference is that Microsoft rarely does something 'cool'

It's just, "standards be damned, we're going to do something to benefit us first."

Re:Safari support

[gmcgath]

If they're saying, "We're going to conform to standards in the final version, even though we're using non-standard techniques in the beta," they're using sloppy design techniques and painting themselves into a corner. If they're saying, "Standards be damned," then they can go their own way, and I'm not going to waste any effort making my browser compatible with their bad code.

Re:Safari support

[mcc]

The "standards be damned, we're going to do something cool our way".

I really have trouble seeing it as in any way Google's fault that the standards have failed to deliver browser compatibility.

Re:Safari support

[arkanes]

The thing, of course, is that the standard doesn't adress stuff like rich client content. It's not a matter of implementing something in a non-standard way, it's a matter of implementing something for which there is no standard. Add to that the need to overcome less than perfect standards support in the real world (no browser 100% perfect, all imperfect in various ways, IE most important to support but also least compliant).

Re:Safari support

[samtihen]

I'm actually pretty sure the reason Google keeps ignoring Safari is that the XML Http method in javascript only works on Mozilla and as an ActiveX method in IE.

http://jibbering.com/2002/4/httprequest.html

Re:Safari support

[shayne321]

I dunno, I have to defend google here. Yesterday I was working on revamping a small user management app used by our department on our intranet.. Since I wasn't under a deadline I decided as a learning experience to abandoned my normal table based layout (since I'm constantly hearing "using tables for layout is evil!") and implement the design in CSS. Well, after spending over 10 hours for what SHOULD have been a two hour design, I finally got something that looked halfway decent, but only after having to learn the particular rendering quirks of each specific browser I wanted to support.

What especially bit my ass was mozilla decides to be standards-compliant and render css boxes based on the width you specify and add padding and borders to that. Ok, fair enough. IE decides to be NOT standards complient and render boxes at the width you specify and deduct padding and borders from that. Ok, I can see that. So, to work around the issue you either implement other "container" boxes, or use a *non-standard* css element mozilla provides: -moz-box-sizing: border-box. WTF? They support the standard for rendering, but can't support the standard "box-sizing" attibute for changing the rendering behavior?

It's crap like this that makes folks like me that don't design high-profile cutting-edge sites everyday go back to the dark ages of table based layouts and crappy CSS hacks. My point is that CCS just isn't THERE yet. Blame microsoft if you want, but moz and other browsers have their share of CSS bugs, too. The best anyone can do TODAY is exploint rending hacks in various browsers.

Re:Safari support

[Anonymous Coward]

KHTML (Konqueror version, don't know about Safari) supports XmlHttpRequest, but it still doesn't work in it.

Re:Safari support

[molnarcs]

No, you are talking about beta software. Safari support will be there, and what they do doesn't screw anyone. What do you have in mind when talking about "not exactly cross platform"? Not exactly cross browser would be more accurate, were it not for the fact that we are talking about beta software that promises support for all major browsers.

This is nothing like MS not supporting png for instance, (or did not for a long time) forcing me to use crappy gif images for transparent logos and such. Therefore, MS screws me. It also screws many users, even without them noticing it. I have no problem with windows (I think it's not a bad desktop OS), I have a problem with the price tag, which is unrealistic IMHO. Part of the strategy of keeping that price tag is vendor lockin, which goes hand in hand with disregarding standards. GoogleMaps, a free service, supporting multiple browsers (and therefore: multiple platforms) is nothing like that. Who is exactly the victim of Google's practices?

Re:Safari support

[prockcore]

it is too bad that even Google can't get a webpage to render properly on any modern browser, such as Safari.

Safari doesn't support XSLT. It's not google's fault that Safari is behind even IE6 in this respect.

Re:Safari support

[Fulcrum of Evil]

did you add the HTML strict (or whatever) declaration for IE? If you don't, it assumes that you want broken behavior.

Re:Safari support

[sootman]

I obviously don't know the specifics of your job, but you can safely ignore the "tables are evil" guys most of the time. Try to avoid them for page layout, sure, but for tabular data, they are fine (hence the name.) Even the most vehement CSS addict will admit that, eventually. Since most of what I put up on a page comes out of a database, tables are a quick-n-easy, and good, and proper way to do things.

Re:Safari support

[babyrat]

but it does suck that this isn't truly cross-platform.

Does OSX support Firefox (or Firefox support OSX)? Google Maps works on my Firefox browser on XP.

Re:Safari support

[waynelorentz]

I'm just waiting for all the faux cranky old men Slashdotters to come out of the woodwork and inform us all that "maps aren't what the internet is for" and preach that Google is bad because they can't view the maps in Lynx, so it's a violation of some 1970's edict they heard about when they were kids in the 90's.

Re:Safari support

[happypork]

"Safari doesn't support XSLT."

Fortunately, Dave Hyatt, one of the lead Safari developers, said in August that it's coming. http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/archives/2004 _08.html/

Re:Safari support

[drsquare]

HTML Strict/CSS/etc be damned. At the end of the day, what really matters to users is compelling apps that let them get their work done quickly.

Funny, when most sites use non-standard html/css/javascript or flash etc., people criticise them for it, but when google do it, it's fine. This shameless google cock-sucking HAS to stop.

Usage...

[Avyakata]

I think another, non-technical, issue is popularity. Online maps are a good idea, but most people who find them useful are already accustomed to Mapquest. Is there anything groundbreaking enough with Google Maps to persuade them to switch?

Re:Usage...

[Twench]

Have you tried it out yet? I liked Mapquest but have begun finding their implementation clunky. This service is incredibly fast, incredibly accurate, incredibly versatile. The ability to drag the map around changing the center is fun and much more convenient then waiting for Mapquest to reload the page. The simple "find pizzas near my house" type search is incredible too. So, the answer to your question is yes. This app IS groundbreaking enough to persuade people to switch.

Re:Usage...

[9mind]

I'm technical and Yes, I have switched... and all the non-technical users I have sent the link to... told them a few things to try... have switched.

The overall consesus on 50 people I have sent it to... is WOW this is SWEET!

Re:Usage...

[Mercaptan]

Did you not look closely at this? Check ut the tour http://www.google.com/help/maps/tour/!

The whole push-pins on business search results thing is pretty cool (although they need to beef up their database a bit), as is the detailed view of each turn and curve in the driving directions. And the ability to use keyboard shortcuts to move and zoom are pure geek-o-licious.

The things that really blew my hair back were the instant pop-up bubbles with detail information that appeared when you clicked on the individual business listings or the flag on the map.

Re:Usage...

[787style]

Groundbreaking? You obviously haven't tried it yet; I would consider this a bigger blow to Mapquest than them hiring Carly Fiorina as CEO.

Re:Usage...

[Anonymous Coward]

i don't know about accurate. it's trying to tell me to make a left turn at an intersection i know you can't make a legal left turn at. this is probably the map vendors fault, but still questions the accuracy.

Re:Usage...

[Anonymous Coward]

Certain links on maps.google.com send you to Mapquest. ;)

Re:Usage...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mapquest has been the worst map provider for quite some time. They lost their lead long ago. Try any other map provider and you'll see, the data is bad and the interface is clunky. Even MSN Maps (based on Mapblast I believe) is many times better. I know, you're used to it, but its not the best.

Quick review

[G3ckoG33k]

It's old news... I tested it two days ago, but the service is not good enough for my use. First, and above all, it does not give you coordinates. Second, Map24 is more complete and more detailed.

Re:Quick review

[iocat]

A lot of google features are nice (the calculator) but not really a replacement for dedicated services. Personally I prefer Rand McNally maps, because they are hella up-to-date.

Re:Quick review

[lindsay rose]

It's definitely still got some bugs! My school, Clarkson University, isn't on the map, and a neigboring school, SUNY Potsdam, is mislabled as Clarkson College. Clarkson College of Technology hasn't existed since the 1980s!

Re:Quick review

[Coneasfast]

Second, Map24 is more complete and more detailed.

let me elaborate, map24 has detailed canada maps, google has none and thus is not (or rarely) useful for us canadians.

OTOH, map24 takes a little longer to load, and is a bit slower in panning around

Re:Quick review

[Anonymous Coward]

Ick, Map24 could not have a more bloated layout. I'd rather use Maquest.

Re:Quick review

[DoorFrame]

Yuck, just tried map24 for the first time and was not happy with the EXTREME load times. I don't want to sit around while silly java applets load up. Also, it didn't actually pinpoint my home address, just gave me the street. Google maps is better.

Re:Quick review

[Proney]

While on the continent view in google maps Canada isn't marked at all, but if you zoom in on it the streets are just as finely marked as their American counterparts. The directions functionality also works just fine with Canadian addresses, although it did choke a little coming up with directions from my native Toronto to my current Seattle... ;)

Re:Quick review

[lucabrasi999]

the EXTREME load times

In the OP's defense, I think map24 has just been slashdotted...

Re:Quick review

[jaguar5150]

Yes, Complete-ly able to crash my FF browser up on load. Perhaps this isn't the fault of Map24, and moreso the problem of my JRE. This brings up another point, though, since this is Java enabled, I would think that there would be JRE version problems?

Re:Quick review

[jaguar5150]

Good point!

Re:Quick review

[geoffspear]

Only if by "none" you mean "enough to show detail of the cities where about 1/3 of the population lives."

British Columbia, Ontario, and Quebec all seem to have maps as detailed in the maximum zoom as US cities. Winnipeg also has street-level detail. Oddly, Edmonton and Calgary don't. But it's still a beta.

Re:Quick review

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, map24 is nonsense. A poor interface and poor quality data - even for canada. It looks like a front-end to an ESRI ArcIMS server - and from my dev experience with it, I know that that technology is a beastly dinosaur. Google's solution is more elegant and effective - AND, from what I can see (as a Canadian) hosts more accurate maps.

Re:Quick review

[athakur999]

Google Maps can't find my street address for some reason. I put it and Google shows my complete address and zip code but just shows a blank map. If I use a nearby intersection though, that map shows up and I can pan over to where I am. Map24 doesn't have this problem. Google Maps is definately faster for me though.

Map24 has a neat distance measuring thingy where you can measure the distance between two points by clicking between arbitrary waypoints. Google Maps doesn't seem to have this. Hopefully they'll implement something like this soon though.

Re:Quick review

[worst_name_ever]

For applications like this, it's important to differentiate between problems in the software and problems in the map data. I design firmware for GPS devices for a living, and we're constantly getting "bug reports" about things that are missing/outdated/incorrect in our map data. The problem is that no (or at least very few) GPS manufacturers or onling mapping providers actually create their own map data content; we just create the hardware and software that renders and lets you interact with map data (which is a heap of work in itself) but pretty much everyone licenses the same raw data from the same commercial source. So, every application that uses that data will exhibit the same errors in the original source material.

In some cases I believe that there are even contractural obligations that prevent the licensee from doing anything other than presenting the data as it's received from the vendor, so even if a company had the resources to answer every user complaint about the data (which they don't) they can't make changes to it anyway. It's a frustrating arrangement.

Disclaimer: The above applies only to road mapping data for the U.S. - Data for other countries or applications (aviation, boating, etc.) comes from different governmental and commercial sources, depending on the provider.

Re:Quick review

[OverlordQ]

It doesn't outlike Rivers very well either.

Take Great Bend, KS for example. Named for being situated at the side of the great South Easterly turn of the Arkansas River. Looking at the Google Map . . . now where's the river?

Re:Quick review

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe more detailed, but not more accurate. Map24 thinks the Willow Grove Joint Reserve Base in Horsham PA and the Naval Air Development Center (now defunct and being converted for private use) several miles away in Warminster have magically become one entity called the "Willow Grove Naval Air Center", located in Warminster.

Re:Quick review

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

I find it difficult to believe anything is better or more accurate. It has my grandfather's indiana driveway in it... I about sprayed mtndew all over my new laptop when I saw that.

Re:Quick review

[christiangosselin]

I'm often using ca.maps.yahoo.com whenever I need detailed maps or driving directions and so far I haven't been impressed by google service. It just couldn't find most of the locations (in montreal city) I'm usually looking for. On the counterpart it still in beta mode so hopefully we'll see improvement soon.

Re:Quick review

[VoiceOfRaisin]

why is it that every piece of mapping software i try that has a "avoid highways" feature NEVER work? i want to ride my bicycle to places, i dont want to ride on highways. why is this feature there when it never works?

Re:Quick review

[Hack'n'Slash]

Actually, Navteq appears to have a form you can use to submit errors in the map data:

http://update.navteq.com/

(Probably outsourced to India.) :)

Re:Quick review

[PIBM]

have you tried using it for anywhere else than the US ?

At least GMaps, as a beta, already have a very good quality representation of Canada :)

Re:Quick review

[iocat]

There are places outside the US? You mean, other than those places we bomb, or Cancun? I don't understand...

Good point. When I travel over the border though, I usually prepare by having a printed map. Besides, Canadians are so friendly you can just ask directions.

Whoa!

[American AC in Paris]

Find: insufferable whiners in Washington, DC

Not bad, Google!

Re:Whoa!

[DataPath]

Ok... that's just spooky.

Re:Whoa!

[JerkBoB]

Find: insufferable whiners in Washington, DC

Damn! And I just lost my mod points. That is funny stuff, man.

Re:Whoa!

[meringuoid]

insufferable whiners

That's just beautiful. It also works wonderfully well with the old Slashdot favourite, 'miserable failures'.

Re:Whoa!

[jaguar5150]

Check the first result under:

free money in Las Vegas

Re:Whoa!

[Gob Blesh It]

Don't forget Beleaguered in Cupertino. :)

Re:Whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

And of course, try this:

litigious bastards in salt lake city

One hit. Guess who...

Re:Whoa!

[Kraemahz]

Not to mention
Satan in Washington, DC (B) and
Antichrist in Washinton, DC
They're both there I guess.

Re:Whoa!

[MosesJones]

"Expensive crap in New York" Well worth a look.

This is a flaw with Google Maps, we can't paste the URL!

Re:Whoa!

[kajoob]

you might be on to something...

"liberal wacko in Washington, DC" comes up with CNN, PBS, and the Washington Post. Spot on!

Re:Whoa!

[arkanes]

That's fantastic... and check the URL in the ballon popup over it.

Re:Whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

try "liberal elites in Washington, DC". I guess they go both ways...

Re:Whoa!

[theancient2]

There is a "link to this page" link in the upper-right corner of the results screen. You can grab the page link from that.

Re:Whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

Try "liars in Washington, DC"

Hello, George.

Now *that's* funny.

Re:Whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, check the sidebar on the map... there's a link that says "Link to this map". Copy it's location...

Re:Whoa!

[Peyna]

The amusing thing about the other phrases used is that they don't contain a direct identifying phrase like "liberal." Instead they use seemingly generic adjectives to achieve an (unexpected) and amusing result.

Re:Whoa!

[Peyna]

Try "conservative elites in Washington, DC" and you get almost identical results. What's your point?

Re:Whoa!

[ozbird]

That's fine if you're familiar with US cities, but I couldn't find the bastards:
"litigious bastards" returned "Your search - litigious bastards - did not match any locations."
"litigious bastards in utah" returned "We could not understand the location utah."

Re:Whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh. Try searching for "insufferable assholes in Washington, DC".

One result. Hello, RIAA!

Re:Whoa!

[Jonavin]

Nice find. Where are my mod points when I need it.

Surprisingly, "litigious bastards in New York" has no hits.

Re:Whoa!

[Razor's Edge]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=insufferable%20whine rs%20in%20Washington%2C%20DC

Re:Whoa!

[bushidocoder]

My favorite part about that search is that if you click on the "Recording Industry Association of America" response, the URL is shows as their website is "http://boycott-riaa.com"

Re:Whoa!

[nandhp]

It also works wonderfully well with the old Slashdot favourite, 'miserable failures'. Yes, but who is Aquino John Esquire and why is *he* the #1 miserable failure?

Re:Whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it makes sense he's first, but only 10 results for "liars in Washington DC"? That thing needs some fine tuning...

Re:Whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

you must be a lot of fun at parties

Re:Whoa!

[daveschroeder]

I think the point is: what's the fucking point of these lame searches at all?

It's just melding its conventional search results - especially from the myriad articles on leftist blogs - into the map search.

So you search for "evil liars in Washionton, DC" and Bush comes back! Yay! OMG, let's post to slashdot about at all day long and laugh and pat each other on the back about how clever we are! Better include "Santorum", too!

The point is that it proves nothing except that the insufferable whining bloggers with too much time on their hands can pack search results with mis- and dis-information, and that their unfortunate impact on the internet at large has overflowed into an otherwise useful service (aka Google Maps).

*That* is the point.

Re:Whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently that is all that matters. At least, if one were to observe the current climate of higher education they might come to such a conclusion. We don't care if you're able to use logic and reason solve problems, so long as your are fun at parties, well gosh darnit, you're gonna be okay.

Re:Whoa!

[Baloo Ursidae]

Umm, PBS is neutral (they piss off hardcore progressives as badly as hardcore conservatives), CNN is conservative (ted turner owns it, he's conservative, there's no reason for them to cover anything that isn't far right of the middle). And Washington Post is cheap, effective toilet paper and not a real journal of review. Go read the Portland Tribune.

Re:Whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

Interestingly Google maps can find the "iPod Maker in Cupertino" but has no clue about the "Evil Empire in Redmond".

Re:Whoa!

[cashman73]

Searching for, "rich overpaid dorks in washington, dc" also leads you to the Recording Industry Association of America. I guess we know what google really thinks of the RIAA,... ;-)

Re:Whoa!

[Anonymous Coward]

CNN is conservative (ted turner owns it, he's conservative, there's no reason for them to cover anything that isn't far right of the middle)

You could use that bit of reasoning for any company. I've sen people try to say that MTV must be conservative because one of the higher-ups is a staunch Republican, and that's obviously a bunch of crap. You simply can't point to one individual in a company and use him/her to conclude that the company's message is conservative or liberal. No, not even the owner or the CEO.

Re:Whoa!

[Baloo Ursidae]

You simply can't point to one individual in a company and use him/her to conclude that the company's message is conservative or liberal. No, not even the owner or the CEO.

So it's just a coincidence CNN only tells the conservative side of the story, avoids anything left of center, opting to fill it in with live music and soft-news bullshit, right?

Re:Whoa!

[macshit]

And unfortunately we can't forget:

insecure buggy software in redmond

keyhole

[Adrilla]

When will we see this merged with Keyhole, they're just begging to be smashed together.

No trying to troll but is safari ever better?

[Mustang Matt]

I'm not a mac user but I do know that on my linux boxes I always choose firefox over konquerer.

Is there anything that safari does better than firefox?

Are users simply using safari because it ships on their mac?

Re:No trying to troll but is safari ever better?

[carlossch]

Are users simply using safari because it ships on their mac?

Are users simply using IE because it ships on their Windows boxes?

Re:No trying to troll but is safari ever better?

[Quattro Vezina]

Well, I don't know much about Safari specifically, but KHTML is a kickass HTML renderer. Konqueror feels so much more responsive than Firefox, and I think it's just down to KHTML being lighter and faster.

There are only two reasons why I still use Firefox:

1) Konqueror's JavaScript engine blows. It's great for HTML, but not JS. I believe Safari has a better JS engine, but it's not been backported to Konqueror yet.

2) I like AdBlock too much to give it up. I've tried Privoxy, but it tends to slow things down.

Re:No trying to troll but is safari ever better?

[bsharitt]

Is there anything that safari does better than firefox?

Safari fits in better. Firefox sticks out like a sore thumb. It doesn't integrate with thing like the system wide spell checker for text boxes. It's just a bunch of little things that end up making it feel very out of place. Firefox 1.1 is supposed to fix some o the integration problems, and 2.0 should feel pretty native.

Re:No trying to troll but is safari ever better?

[generic-man]

Camino is better than both.

It lacks the "Mozilla in Mac OS X clothing" look of Firefox, instead using Cocoa for the front-end and Gecko for rendering. The resultant program is fast, good-looking, and feels like a native application instead of a XUL executable.

Even though it's only at 0.8b (thus putting it at the same code maturity level as most Google services) it has become my default browser in OS X.

The only caveat is that it doesn't support any of the fancy extensions that Firefox does, but I'd rather look at ads than at Firefox for Mac.

Re:No trying to troll but is safari ever better?

[LWATCDR]

"Well, I don't know much about Safari specifically, but KHTML is a kickass HTML renderer. Konqueror feels so much more responsive than Firefox, and I think it's just down to KHTML being lighter and faster."
Actually Gecko is pretty fast and light. Firefox feels slow because of the XUL framework. I think there is even a hack to get Konqueror to use Gecko.

Re:No trying to troll but is safari ever better?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Is there anything that safari does better than firefox?

Yes. Safari has a few nice features that have not been pulled into Firefox, as far as I know. The page snap-back feature is one. It simplifies backing out of a series of links, to main index page. On Slashdot, it will take you back to the main article, or the main page depending upon how it is used. It is a bit hard to explain, but it is nice. Firefox also falls down on support for system services. It supports some services, but for some reason my spell checking, grammar checking, and online dictionary services all fail to work in it. They function just fine in Safari and most other applications. I have not checked but they may work in the "Camino" Firefox fork. Aside from that, it is just a matter of preference. Firefox uses more memory per page, but seems to use less CPU time. Both are good browsers and each has pages that it renders better than the other.

Re:No trying to troll but is safari ever better?

[Gob Blesh It]

Have you tried PithHelmet for adblocking in Safari? I don't use it myself, but I've heard it's fast and effective.

I'll also add that in terms of interface, Firefox is ugly everywhere Safari is beautiful. Opening Firefox reminds me of the travesty that was Word 6.0 for Mac.

Re:No trying to troll but is safari ever better?

[arkanes]

Gecko is tied very tightly to XUL. If anyone has managed to bind Gecko to anything without an XUL layer for that platform, I'd be really interested in hearing about it. Gecko is also dependent on XPCOM, which is it's own brand of heavy weight. KHTML is quite a bit smaller and faster than Gecko. However, it's not the sort of thing you'd see in the applications. I agree that Firefox vs Safari speed differences are probably due to XUL.

Re:No trying to troll but is safari ever better?

[LWATCDR]

Look at Epiphany and Kmeleon. They are both lightweight browsers based on Gecko with native widgets.
I would use Kmeleon except it lacks a spell checker.

Re:No trying to troll but is safari ever better?

[arkanes]

Kmeleon still relies on XUL (just take a look in it's application directory), it simply modifies XUL to generate native widgets. Although I'm actually not too sure of that anymore, the recent version of Kmeleon I looked at did *not* use native menus or toolbars. I'm not aware of any project that manages to totally divorce Gecko from XUL, although I'll take a look at Epiphany.

Maybe "v" is the version number (.1 for the beta)

[Rescate]

From the article:

Each tile URL is of the following form:
http://mt.google.com/mt?v=.1&x={x tile index}&{y tile index}=2&zoom={zoom level}
I'm not sure what the 'v' argument specifies, but it never seems to change.

Maybe "v" is the version number, which is why it never changes. Version .1 makes sense for a beta.

Scrolling only partially works

[Saxton]

All you people complaining about Safari compatibility... For some reason I can't get my maps to scroll after they've been printed. I've tried using Epson and Canon printers. If anyone can help let me know.

Re:Scrolling only partially works

[pranay]

use bigger paper.

Re:Scrolling only partially works

[955301]

And cup your hands beside your head. You should be able to scroll again.

Re:Scrolling only partially works

[m50d]

Well, in konqueror I can't see any map at all, unfortunately. So no use to me for the time being.

Re:Scrolling only partially works

[heyitsme]

SEXTON! Er, I mean Saxton!

Whats up man? Haven't talked to you in a while and saw this /. post... good stuff :)

Re:Scrolling only partially works

[The Cisco Kid]

As funny as this may be, it *would* be very handy if they supported a way of first printing the textual directions, and then using their interface to select and zoom views of discrete chunks of the 'directions', and then being able to cleanly print each view that you select (just the map, not the text again each time)

Re:Scrolling only partially works

[mobby_6kl]

I can confirm this, it doesn't work with DeskJet 880c and KonicaMinolta 1300W, no soulution so far :(

Re:Scrolling only partially works

[Mr. Sketch]

It sounds like your printer is defective. You need a GPrinter with official GInk and GPaper.

Re:Scrolling only partially works

[djward]

It was working in Lynx the other day, but they seem to have broken it since then.

Re:Scrolling only partially works

[hobo2k]

This seems to be a common limitation of modern printers. It works very well with older printing tech. They just don't make 'em like they used to.

Google Search Results

[prakslash]

For some reason, if one enters an address in Google Search to find a location on a map, the resulting search results still point to MapQuest and Yahoo!Maps. (See example)

They need to update that.

Re:Google Search Results

[Haydn Fenton]

Google Maps is still in beta, it probably won't show up till at least they're fully finished with it.

Re:Google Search Results

[Country_hacker]

I'm guessing that'll be changed as soon as it's out of beta stage.

Re:Google Search Results

[Anonymous Coward]

Please, do yourself a favor and relax. This is just a beta meaning you shouldn't expect it to be ready for general consumption.

They need to update that.

I'm willing to bet a fair amount that they knew that from the onset. what do you think?

Re:Google Search Results

[uberdave]

Well, two things:

1. Google maps is still beta, ie. not released for genera use yet.
2. Google searches usually present the most popular link first. Google maps has not had a chance to become popular yet.

let me know

[Anonymous Coward]

when you have something as good as this.

Re:let me know

[halligas]

A painfully slow loading java app. Loved it.

No graphics

[smooth wombat]

Too bad the graphics don't appear on that page when using Firefox. I checked the code and the page uses ' rather than " when coded for the image src. For example:

<img src='http://innuvo.com/users/joel/map.gif'>

Maybe that's the way XHTML is supposed to be but since I'm not one who does web design for a living I don't know.

Re:No graphics

[STrinity]

The images don't show up in Lynx either! The bastards.

new Google browser (alpha) is intriguing

[peter303]

I'm hoping they decide to ship it. There are several very inventive features. And solves some of the issues mentioned in this thread.

I like it!

[__aammuz5019]

Hello all,

I am going on travel this afternoon and I had already printed out my maps and directions from "another service (MapQuest).

Today, I did the same using Google Maps, and I found the interface much easier to use, the maps pretty good and the driving directions less complex and easier to read than the ones I usually get from other services.

I say "pretty good" on the maps, because of two things: First, several of the maps had slight discontinuities when I printed them, versus the way they looked on screen. At the left edge, there was a vertical seam where the map pieces were shifted with respect to each other. Not a big deal, as this had no great effect, but has anyone else seen this? Second, the shadows from the "start" and "end" push pins obscured some of the map information and blobbed the end of the route a bit. Does anyone know how to turn off the shadows?

Just my experience, YMMV.

smp

I still miss the aerial photos that Mapquest had..

[Gadgetfreak]

but now those are gone, too. I have to use Whirlwind, which doesn't do directions.

It was nice to map a location, and then check the aerial photo so you had an idea what the location looked like other than just the street.
Despite not having top notch resolution, it made finding parking lots, street entrances, and buildings quite a bit easier. Not to mention, things like public access boat launches for my kayak.

It's the icing on the cake, really. I hope the Google Maps folks realize that, and consider a future feature implementation.

Nice as a video game engine

[192939495969798999]

I'd like to see a MMORPG ported for this, like a web-enabled version of ultima 1 that shows where everyone's looking, and we can all interact. How awesome would that be? Totally.

crash ...

[jasonsfa98]

It crashes my Firefox (1.0) everytime I try to map out directions from A to B.

I'll consider using it...

[stomv]

... when it figures out where I live. Mapquest knows. map24 knows. Google doesn't... and so it doesn't (yet) pass the simplest smell test for my nose.

I look forward to it getting better.

Re:I'll consider using it...

[AceCaseOR]

Well, where do you live? I plugged my address in, and not only did it find where I live, but that also that my street doesn't go all the way through (there's a some road, a big bunch of trees that you have to go through two intersections for.) I also really dig the little balloon thing that comes up when you click on a particular direction (turn right onto 5th St or whatever). I'm definately going to start using Google Maps over Mapquest.

Re:I'll consider using it...

[James Ojaste]

I just checked map24 and google with my work address. It's a bit of a tough test, since the city name has changed in the past couple of years, people use two different acronyms for the province, and the postal code is a government-wide one, so no help there.

Neither found it on the first pass. With a bit of fiddling, I got google to find it (oddly enough, I had to use the old city name to find it, but google displayed it with the new city name). Map24 still has no idea what I was asking for.

Not to mention that trying different searches with map24 was a real pain - the UI jumps all over the place while the page loads.

Re:I'll consider using it...

[ccwaterz]

My litmus test is an address on a dirt road in upstate ny. Yahoo and Mapquest find it. MSN can't find the specific address but finds the road.

Google can't find it at all, but the road is correctly labelled if you zoom in on it.

Google not promoting their own map app?

[danielcole]

Do a phone number or address search from the main page, and Google suggests you can look at Yahoo! Maps, and MapQuest for directions, but not their own service.

Re:Google not promoting their own map app?

[sunrein]

It's still in beta. They'll probably dump those services once their service leaves beta.

Endless pursuit

[Tmack]

Kinda like what Endless Pursuit has done? You upload you waypoints/tracks, it overlays them on a topo you view from your browser. Dont think it needs any plugins, as the overlay is done by the server and is output as a normal image.

I once had an idea of doing this, and might eventually get around to finishing it. I just dont have the map library to do the overlay. All I could do is draw the tracks. Image librarys (like gd) make drawing the tracks easy, and overlaying just as simple. Getting a library of map images that would allow you to use it for this sort of thing would be the hard part.

tm

Re:Endless pursuit

[Tmack]

ack! meant to reply to a post, not reply to the headline. bleh....

Why aren't competitors beating Google to market?

[Anonymous Cowdog]

Google is hitting a lot of the obvious sweetspots for improving the user experience. Some of them are obvious only in retrospect. But we know their competitors have smart people, and they do UI research, and they have resources. Why does Google come out with innovation after innovation?

I have three answers. I wonder which ones are valid:

1. Laziness
2. Encumberance with legacy political and business issues (is feature x threatening to partner Fooinc, how can we hang ads on this, etc.)
3. Focus on fancy-pants analysis of numbers (data mining to try to optimise, rather than revolutionize), leading them to be blind to simple measures like using Javascript and caching lots of content in the client.

What other reasons are there?

A stir?

[stimpleton]

"Google Maps is starting to cause a bit of a stir"

Really? With US residents only presumably.

In the absence of international support, the only "stir" I get is what I'm doing with my coffee at the moment.

Re:A stir?

[Anonymous Coward]

How very perceptive of you. Your powers of deduction are mind-boggling.

Re:A stir?

[csimicah]

Great! We were all *just* wondering whether you, personally, were part of abovementioned stir.

Re:A stir?

[Anonymous Coward]

It works for Canadian locations too, thanks.

Re:A stir?

[EpsCylonB]

I love that daily show line...

Occasionally newsworthy events happen elsewhere in the world, and periodically we care.

Re:A stir?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who else matters?

Re:A stir?

[syrinx]

US residents only

Oh, did Canada finally get annexed? I'll be looking forward to some good beer, then.

Re:A stir?

[Frostalicious]

In the absence of international support, the only "stir" I get is what I'm doing with my coffee at the moment.

I searched for "Vancouver BC" and it correctly located me in Canada. Try that with mapquest, and it thinks I live somewhere in Kansas!

MOD PARENT UP!

[Anonymous Coward]

COMEDY GOLD!

• National Republican Congress (202) 479-7000 - 1.8 mi E
• Recording Industry Association of America (202) 775-0101 - 0.9 mi N
• Olsson's Books & Records: Books (301) 652-3336 - 7.1 mi NW
• Little Theatre of Alexandria (703) 683-0496 - 6.5 mi S
• Wwlg-Am-Legends 1360: Business Office (410) 580-6800 - 37 mi NE
• Wjfk (703) 691-1900 - 15 mi W
• Studley Julien J Inc (703) 442-0145 - 10 mi W

pretty accurate

[blew_fantom]

on a recent trip, i used mapquest, yahoo maps, and other sites to get some directions to places i need to go. needless to say, the directions were not very clear and i'd get lost most of the time... in hindsight of course, the directions given to the same places by google maps seem more "accurate" to me since i actually know where those places are now... but i've put in some locations i know very well, and google maps is actually pretty darn accurate, providing the easiest route possible with easy to follow directions. of course, that could just be the locations i've queried, but, nevertheless, google maps seems to be headed in the right direction.

Who needs maps?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Psffft....Maps are for people who get lost...

xml & xslt & css & javascript

[smooc]

Although not a mpping service, I have made something like it (with the map) here. It uses a xml, xslt combination

http://www.xs4all.nl/~bolke/index.xml

works best with mozilla, ie works too but the browser has too many bugs

What WOULD you call Google's approach?

[dpbsmith]

It's not quite AI, yet Google comes closer to realizing the fantasy of Isaac Asimov's Multivac than anything else I've experienced before. It's very weird: the impression that Google gives is that it does NOT understand your question, yet it DOES manage to find the answers you want.

It's not quite user-interface, in the sense of elegant widgets or consistency or any of that stuff. Google's traditional search features could almost run on Lynx on a green screen. Maybe they can. Google Maps is visually spiffy by comparison to Mapquest, but it's nothing we haven't seen in standalone programs years ago.

It isn't really "search." Or at least, if it is, with every new thing they roll out, Google does an amazing job of expanding my notion of what "search" means. What does it mean to "search" on "250 pounds in kilograms?"

Something that Google seems to share with Apple is some sort of courtesy or kindness or service orientation to the end-user. It just works. And unlike Microsoft or Apple, Google's services seem to come with fewer strings attached.

One of the things that delights me about Google is a certain kind of freshness I haven't seen elsewhere as often as I'd like. They have the characteristic you used to see in innovative software that when you describe the latest Google feature, it doesn't sound all that new, yet when you use it you get that feeling that something unexpected has been revealed.

Re:What WOULD you call Google's approach?

[Anonymous Coward]

> It isn't really "search."

I've been very impressed by it as a search engine. I live in Rochester, New York. I got a map of the area, typed in "sushi" and found two places in town that I didn't know even offered sushi.

It's search in the sense that once you have the map on a geographic area, your searches are scoped by what you're viewing. This integration of mapping (to set context) and location-based searching (to specify what you want) is brilliant.

Re:What WOULD you call Google's approach?

[Bleeblah]

Google's traditional search features could almost run on Lynx on a green screen. Maybe they can

Google looks great in Lynx.

Re:What WOULD you call Google's approach?

[_xeno_]

It's not quite AI, yet Google comes closer to realizing the fantasy of Isaac Asimov's Multivac than anything else I've experienced before. It's very weird: the impression that Google gives is that it does NOT understand your question, yet it DOES manage to find the answers you want.

Yeah, some of the answers are funny. I did a search for "anime" near my house, and discovered (as I basically already knew) that the closest places are in Boston. (And, no, that's not my house in the center. I actually panned and zoomed there 'cause I was playing with the map first.)

The fact that WPI, a college in Worcester, came back twice (once for an article on a parking ban as "Worcester City Of: Streets" and once for their Science Fiction Society as WPI: Massachusetts Academy) is kind of... freaky.

Re:What WOULD you call Google's approach?

[hey!]

I think of it like those chess playing programs. Yes, it's just another program composed of algorithms, but there's a smart and motivated team that is continually tweaking the system.

It would be interesting to chararcterize the development model they use.

Re:What WOULD you call Google's approach?

[arbitraryaardvark]

If they would/could integrate the map with the web sites that originate from points on the map, it would be something like the multiverse in snow crash.

Re:Why aren't competitors beating Google to market

[Ced_Ex]

4. Google allows side projects which likely hold more interest than actual business projects, hence are produced with creativity and passion.

Where this is going...

[RCulpepper]

I see some features that will tie in well with this. It already makes Local Search a lot more handy. I could see Google using aggregated GSM phone locator signals to forecast traffic patterns and then, after asking you when you intend to start and end your trip (so it can route you around traffic), estimating when you'll want to eat lunch, etc, so that bricks-and-mortar restaurants, gas stations on the selected route can pay for advertising - it's one segment of the economy Google has not yet touched.

Re:Where this is going...

[Larry Lightbulb]

Advertising for the places you would go by has to be the next feature of it [well, if they want to make money from it] - perhaps their usual style, or icons on the map. Having gas stations would be so useful.

Re:Where this is going...

[HeighYew]

Right!

Cities along your route could even pay a small fee to link to their "visitors brochure" web pages from the results page. So, when you look up a travel route, you could then click on the brochure links to see what attractions may be on the way to your final destination.

Once again, Genius from Google!

Re:Where this is going...

[afidel]

Holly crap thats a good idea! I'm planning a trip from northest Ohio to Yellowstone late this summer and such a feature would absolutly rock. Even with AAA Triptiks (tm) it can still be a bit of a pain to plan such trips, a Google Maps feature that could plan the whole thing including bathroom stops and food stops would be VERY cool.

Re:Where this is going...

[Lord_Dweomer]

Well, I for one have always fantasized about a wearable computer that I could search for things with and it would display those locations as bright pillars of light that would only be visable through the glasses. I think Google will be ready for that.

On another note, I have to say that this was the first time I tried Google Maps, and holy crap, I will never touch Mapquest EVER again.

Few things on the internet have blown me away like this has. Not only is it one of the most intuitive things I've ever seen, it just WORKS. And nowhere near as cluttered as Mapquest.

Re:Where this is going...

[dustinbarbour]

It seems to me that they haven't linked Maps with local yet. Google Local still has comparatively crappy maps and I didn't find a link to the address over at maps.google.com. Yes.. I know its still a beta and eagerly await the merging of the two.

Re:Where this is going...

[illumin8]

It already makes Local Search a lot more handy.

And yet, for some reason, http://local.google.com isn't using the same maps. They are still using the same old tired ones they were using months ago when they launched the local service. I've got to hand it to Google, this new maps service is the best one by far, but what they really need to do is merge the two or else they will dilute each other's brand awareness.
[/marketroid]

Re:Where this is going...

[cft_128]

a Google Maps feature that could plan the whole thing including bathroom stops and food stops

Man, Google knows everything, even when I will have to go to the bathroom!

Well, to be honest I know that for my girlfriend too: about every three minutes.

Re:I still miss the aerial photos that Mapquest ha

[MrP-(at work)]

Remember, google purchased keyhole

so that will probably happen eventually

It's just an expression..

[JPelorat]

A metaphor for accomplishing a difficult or complex task that the object or system generally wasn't thought of as capable of doing.

Settle down, Beavis.

Re:It's just an expression..

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not that complicated. People tend to think that browsers are very limited programming environments, probably because most web "programmers" barely master enough Javascript to move a div around and hide and show stuff. Javascript is a full featured prototype based object oriented language and the programmer has a very high level rendering engine at his disposal. There's no reason (except browser deficiencies regarding implementation of the standards) why programming powerful user interfaces shouldn't be possible in a browser. It's not that hard, but of course you'll need a little more Javascript than your average web monkey can handle. Put a real programmer on it and you'll get stuff like Google Maps in no time.

Re:It's just an expression..

[JPelorat]

'Complicated' is relative.

Safari javascript is based on KDE's kjs library

[Anonymous Coward]

And there are subtle incompatabilities between Mozilla/Firefox's javascript, IE's jscript and KDE's kjs.

Slick, but Wrong

[Madcapjack]

Google's maps has a very slick interface. I like it. ONLY the name of the street I live on is WRONG in the map. My street is Lincoln, and its says Dodge Road. I know that I'm not looking at the wrong location, my location is easily identifiable and the other streets nearbye are correctly named, and when I do a search for my address it goes directly to Dodge Street. (maybe Google knows something I don't?)

Re:Slick, but Wrong

[AceCaseOR]

What street is your mailbox on?

Re:Slick, but Wrong

[jimwelch]

Typical errors for a map app (does that rhyme)?

The local pizza place (homerun) is located downtown according to google, 3 miles west of its real location. Somehow they got an address that they can't fantom, so they default to downtown instead of an error message!

The address comes up as "Eastland Shopping Ce" instead of "500 SE Washington Boulevard" which is where switchboard returns, which google links to, right on the ballon!
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=%22Home%20run%20pizz a%22%20in%20Bartlesville%2C%20OK

Re:Slick, but Wrong

[Madcapjack]

What street is your mailbox on?

My mailbox is on Lincoln. there has never been to the best of my knowledge any road nearby named Dodge.

Some here have suggested that errors are introduced for copywrite protection (a rather crude way of doing it, don't you think?). I actually think it was probably an error.

like Endless Pursuit?

[Tmack]

Kinda like what Endless Pursuit has done? You upload you waypoints/tracks, it overlays them on a topo you view from your browser. Dont think it needs any plugins, as the overlay is done by the server and is output as a normal image.

I once had an idea of doing this, and might eventually get around to finishing it. I just dont have the map library to do the overlay. All I could do is draw the tracks. Image librarys (like gd) make drawing the tracks easy, and overlaying just as simple. Getting a library of map images that would allow you to use it for this sort of thing would be the hard part.

tm

"I'm not sure what the 'v' argument specifies, but

[way2trivial]

I'm not sure what the 'v' argument specifies, but it never seems to change

how hard is it to just make a BS page locally that changes the v variable to a few different results, and looking for the difference?

Re:link is devoid of any useful content...

[TheGavster]

Um ... the blog entry is comparing the differences in the way the page is programmed, not the layout/appearance. It is interesting that they chose a completely different technique when programming Maps than GMail.

Why Safari is NOT supported

[joestump98]

It doesn't support iframes and (as the article clearly states) iframes are a big part of how this application works.

Re:Why Safari is NOT supported

[LakeSolon]

Well you read the article, but apparently you haven't used Safari much. It most certainly does support iframes. Even the one on google maps.

~Lake

Tried the drag functionality...

[Sime208]

...but couldn't go very far until I ran out of map. Typical of America to think the world begins and ends there ;-) Where's the rest of the world gone!

Can't get thar from hyar.

[Doc Ruby]

I took Google Maps up on its offer to take a tour. I found that their example, "Manhattan to Brooklyn" in the "single search box" (or even in their "Get directions:" form field) instead gives me a map of Brooklyn with (a few) businesses there with "Manhattan" in their name. I know it's a beta, but doesn't anyone test these demos before announcing them? The "tour" guide has buried a very interesting app under bad demo instructions.

Real-time traffic maps...

[antdude]

I would like to see a real-time live traffic map with maps.google.com like Yahoo!'s Maps.

The world according to the US =)

[doktorstop]

Looks like the famous cartoon has indeed made it to Google! Have a look at the map... the world is the US (nicely plotted, roads and cities) and ... Canada (full desert). No way to cross the ocean or even get a glimpse of South America existing =)
Here we go... the logical conclusion that nothing else matters! I mean, I didn't expect a map or, God forbid, even cities names, but CONTINENTS would be fun to have at least. Hey, America, we ARE on the map!

lat/lon is there

[mapmaker]

First, and above all, it does not give you coordinates.

Not sure if you were complaining that they don't display coordinates on the page, or that they aren't there at all for you to grab. While it is true that the lat/lon coordinates are not displayed on the results page, they are there in the html source. Which the submitter mentioned in his review.

So any app you might have (like a geocoder) that would like those coordinates can grab them from the html, just like you used to be able to do with Yahoo's map site.

Re:lat/lon is there

[cmpalmer]

I wonder what Google's policy on this will be? On one hand, Google has been quite generous on exposing web services and allowing almost anyone to link to them (except, of course, someone who sets up a web search page that returns Google results without attribution). On the other hand, most data licensing contracts prohibit secondary use of their data (meaning I can't legally write an app that uses MapQuest to do my geocoding or map imaging).

Google's solution for displaying the maps using client side scripting instead of tons of server side processing and Java clients is fast and elegant, but the downside is that it exposes much of the interfaces required to access the data in other ways. I wonder what their official policy will be?

Re:lat/lon is there

[mapmaker]

I wonder what Google's policy on this will be?...most data licensing contracts prohibit secondary use of their data.

'Policies' are irrelevant. You and I aren't bound by Google's license with their data provider. If Google doesn't want us to use their service for our own purposes, they can (and will) change how the service works to stop those unwanted uses. For an example of this, see the story posted earlier this week about Microsoft trying to patent how they encode lat/lon coordinates.

So the guiding rule is: if you can do it, you're allowed to do it.

Note to jgwebber

[mzwaterski]

The v in teh URL most likely stands for version. Here, the version is .1. Just a guess.

Very Nice

[michelcultivo]

It would be nice if there's a way to link the maps into my website, only copying the link that others users can be on another places without problems.

Re:Very Nice

[alphakappa]

The map url is provided on the top right corner under "link to this page".

Re:Why aren't competitors beating Google to market

[Anonymous Coward]

4. Google has been trojan-horsed by Apple??

That would explain the upcoming Spotlight at least, even if that's not what you initially wanted to know.

You need new ink

[dlZ]

You're probably not using official Google Ink. It's only available by invite currently, though, and I already used all mine up.

I wished I had safari but from what I saw.

[xutopia]

The ECMAScript (Javascript) code used for this is pretty standard except for a few else{} to acomodate Internet Explorer (unfortunately you cannot do without). I realize people want things to work in their favorite browser but shouldn't they check that their favorite browser follows standards before blaming Google?

Re:Why aren't competitors beating Google to market

[donothingsuccessfull]

Google is run by hackers and the rest are run by PHBs?
Obvious answer, I know.

Will this bother some Privacy Fanatics ?

[brandonp]

Of course, will this bother some people who are fanatical about Privacy issues?

John Smith in New York City, NY

Depending on how the results are categorized and obtained, this seems like it could be a hot issue.

Brandon Petersen

Re:Will this bother some Privacy Fanatics ?

[Peyna]

Lord help us if the privacy fanatics ever get their hands on a phonebook and see all the privacy issues there.

Re:Will this bother some Privacy Fanatics ?

[rsadelle]

Whoa, freaky. I hadn't noticed that before. On the other hand, it doesn't seem to be integrated with white pages but rather only with business results.

Oddly enough, if I put in my name and city, it correctly comes up with where I work (which is in a different town), but if I try to get directions from where I live to where I work, it says it "did not match any locations."

Re:Will this bother some Privacy Fanatics ?

[DrewCapu]

Navin (Steve Martin): The new phone book's here! The new phone book's here! This is the kind of spontaneous publicity I need! My name in print! That really makes somebody! Things are going to start happening to me now.

Of course, later that day, a disgruntled man with a rifle opens one of the new phone books at random seeking a victim. His finger lands on the name of Navin Johnson, and there is his address right beside it.

Re:Will this bother some Privacy Fanatics ?

[twistedcubic]

Notice that they're all businesses, not residential. Try to do a search on yourself and see what happens.

Re:Will this bother some Privacy Fanatics ?

[Karma Star]

Yes. I'm sure Super Mario doesn't want Bowser to know that he lives in East Orange, NJ:

http://www.google.com/local?q=super+mario&num=100& hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&sa=G&near=07030&sl=1&sc=1&radiu s=0&latlng=40744500,-74032863,5439935023851877402

This might be intentional.

[Kickasso]

Map publishers often insert small errors in their products to thwart copyright violations.

Re:This might be intentional.

[Gob Blesh It]

I thought the errors came in the form of additional streets out in the middle of nowhere, not renaming streets people actually live on. At least, wouldn't that be the smart way to do it?

Made from images?

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in a semi-rural area where we have pretty long driveways (.25 mi). My driveway, and some (but not all) of my neighbors show up on this map. Interesting.

In related news..

[sameerdesai]

... Google fires the "mapping google" blogger... Oh wait he doesn't work for Google!! darn!!!

no workee for me

[gonar]

is there something I'm doing wrong? no maps come up for me, just a blenk beige space. when I click on one of the waypoint links, I get an empty square with the "broken" icon overlayed on the map.

firefox 1.0 xp

Re:no workee for me

[jimwelch]

works for me on Firefox 1.0+ on W2k
I'll try linux version tonight

Re:no workee for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Check your JavaScript advanced options in the Preferences. You'll need "Change Images" and "Disable Or Replace Context Menus" checked.

I had everything unchecked and had the same problem. I still have the broken icon, but the square isn't empty.

I just tried Google Map.. It's FAST!

[MrJerryNormandinSir]

I just looked up my house with Google Map.. It's fast!!!! Now if they can just add GPS information
and parse GPS info, that would be cool!

Re:I just tried Google Map.. It's FAST!

[Stavr0]

Try this.

One word: White Pages.

[Kickasso]

Well, that's two words. So sue me.

Just hover over the links

[tek_hed]

Furthermore, they are in the opaque "Link to this page" link. It looks like this:

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.062500%2C-119. 06 7565&spn=3.859375%2C8.565532

Looks like geographical coordinates to me.

its killer feature is...

[flacco]

...maps larger than a fucking postage stamp.

google does it again. so long mapquest etc.

Doesn't comply with W3C-suggestions

[DancesWithBlowTorch]

I also think it bears noting that Google is pulling out all the stops to build rich web apps, no matter how weirdly they have to hack the browser to make them go. And I strongly believe that this is a trend that is here to stay -- XHTML Strict/CSS/etc be damned. At the end of the day, what really matters to users is compelling apps that let them get their work done quickly.

At the end of the day, Google _has_ cared about XHTML Strict/CSS/etc. From the head of googles web app:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd ">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

And I'm quite happy about that. There's a reason why the w3c gives out definitions for html et al.

Re:Doesn't comply with W3C-suggestions

[Anonymous Coward]

From http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fmap s.google.com%2F

This page is not Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional!

Re:Doesn't comply with W3C-suggestions

[Kehvarl]

According to that page, the -only- error is a single value which looks like a MS specific element. In other words, it's perfectly valid except for one element of one tag that's in there so IE doesn't panic.

other than that it is valid.

Google and Map24

[Anonymous Coward]

what is the connection between Google Maps and Map24 http://www.us.map24.com/

Check out the Map24 website and there seems to be some partnership going on...

JS / HTML graphics: iWon Prize Machine

[Anonymous Custard]

From TFA:

Probably the most striking thing about Google Maps is the very impressive (for DHTML, anyway) graphics. Now, I'm sure that many of you old JavaScript hacks out there have known this sort of thing was possible for a long time, but it's very cool to see it (a) actually being used for something real, and (b) where normal users will see it.

Back in the Summer of 2000 iWon.com released the Prize Machine.

They didn't want people to need a plugin to use it, so they wrote it in JavaScript.

It's a slot machine with moving prize images. You click the arm and it pulls down and starts spinning. It talks to the server to see if your spin won a prize or not, and spins the wheels accordingly.

Nifty little app, actually.

Re:JS / HTML graphics: iWon Prize Machine

[Inda]

There was an error in downloading the iWon Prize Machine...
The download failed because you are not using Internet Explorer as your Web browser. Only IE is compatible with the iWon Prize Machine.

Man that sucks big time. Guess which nice browser I'm using? :)

Re:JS / HTML graphics: iWon Prize Machine

[Obiwan Kenobi]

Man, I kept waiting for:

"And then Hacker Dude X hacked the Prize Machine hardcore, got all the prizes he could stand, then sold them on ebay for a fortune!

He's currently getting "Personal Attention" from Bubba J. Plow in the Oswald State Correctional Facility!"

But nooOOOooo, you had to be Informative, didn't you. ;)

Evan
My CCG Design blog

Re:JS / HTML graphics: iWon Prize Machine

[nautical9]

Although this doesn't talk to a server while it's running, it's still the most impressive DHTML app I've ever seen: DHTML Lemmings.

Really opened my eyes to the possibilities of what JavaScript/DOM can do. Glad to see Google, iWon, and other sites finally starting to make use of it.

Re:JS / HTML graphics: iWon Prize Machine

[Anonymous Custard]

It was first built in 2000, when Netscape was down and out and Firefox was very very young. So they didn't worry about non-IE browsers.

Re:JS / HTML graphics: iWon Prize Machine

[Anonymous Custard]

Based on what I know of the original security, you'd need to be quite an insider to crack it. And it may not even be possible at all - kind of how it's (virtually) impossible to un-hash passwords even though you may have admin access to the table that stores them.

missing tile?

[imess]

is it just me? i keep seeing randomly missing tiles (i'm on school wireless)

no

[Anonymous Coward]

Safari supports iframes. It doesn't support the fancy javascript (XML and XSL methods). That's because the safari devs really aren't that interested in de facto standards (they're still catching up with Moz on CSS2 layout to be honest).

Re:no

[Carewolf]

No they are not. KHTML beats Gecko on CSS standards in many areas, at least as many as Gecko beats KHTML in.

The only KHTML weakness here is the lack of full XML support, such as XSL. Being in both IE6 and Mozilla it is an important feature to support now.

Re:no workee for me - me too.

[flyingace]

I know this is offtopic, but it does not work for me too. Firefox just shows a whitebox in the place of the map that I see in IE :(

Sadly missing one invaluable feature...

[Anonymous Coward]

I use online map services extensively and I'm exciting to see Google jump in. But one feature is sadly lacking at the present time-- you can't save the map as a JPEG. Often I'll need to grab the map from a serive to drop it into a document for print or e-mail... And you can't do it with google maps unless you do a screen grab or print the page to PDF, but that's a bit of a hassle.

The "e-mail" feature is also worthless, since you're just sending a link to the maps.google page.

Re:When it supports

[Quill_28]

You are making little sense, I far as I could tell it worked well in Fl, Tenn, Ky, Il .

What exactly are you complaining about?

Google uses XUL

[fulldecent]

Here's the big secret:

Google uses XUL to develop all their rich websites. For example: Gmail, Maps, Groups and others on the way. This natively XUL interface is then converted to HTML/CSS/JavaScript that we can see and run. This conversion is done by a program Google wrote a while ago and the conversion is very simple. Of course, it's not perfect and needs to be loked over by hand. This is how Gmail is compatible now with all the other browsers.

In the future, when they decide it is time, they will publish their XUL interfaces side-by-side with their current interfaces. I'm not trying to give any hints, but this is related to a large push that Google is going to make to support XUL technology and will happen by the end of this year or early 2006.

Re:Google uses XUL

[christopherfinke]

An interesting example of Google XUL was mentioned earlier in the thread: Google XUL search page.

Re:Google uses XUL

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no Dana, only XUL

Re:no workee for me - me too.

[Devi0s]

It wasn't working for me until I realized that I'd have to enable Javascript AND allow it to change images.

Re:When it supports

[arodland]

I did some expert sleuthing, and found that it supports at least four additional regions besides midwest USA. They include:

• Northeast USA
• Southeast USA
• Northwest USA
• Southwest USA
• 
  
  Keep in mind that Southwest USA is where Google is, and I'm sure they have a much easier time getting geographical data. Besides, it would suck if the Google developers did all that work, got the site up, and it couldn't even show them their own offices!

Amazing what you can find.

[HarveyBirdman]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=las%20vegas&ll=37.42 1494%2C-115.380568&spn=0.003670%2C0.007297

Re:Amazing what you can find.

[Anonymous Coward]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=weapons%20of%20mass% 20destruction&sll=37.062500%2C-95.677068&sspn=49.3 75000%2C90.069707

C'mon man!

[Lysol]

You're telling me an Indian, EU or is going to model where they're not from first? Sure, I'm all for the world community just as much as any EU or other worldly person might be, but the service just came out a few days ago! Expecting them to already have mapped the world is a little too much at this point.

Remember, BETA usually means pre-release and time to work out all the bugs, etc. I'd much rather (and have in the past) work with a smaller data set and then add more after launch. I don't think this is a U.S. issue at all. What's the point of knowing where a Swedish pizza place is to the development/qa team? Or a French cafe? Or Belo Horizonte night club? You test where and what you know and move out from there...

Slight problem with the map.....

[MSDos-486]

Since when was North America a island

Re:Slight problem with the map.....

[Anonymous Coward]

...since the Panama Canal was built!

Re:Slight problem with the map.....

[/dev/trash]

aren't all land masses surrounded by water?

USA, THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD !!

[Anonymous Coward]

I KNEW IT !!!, zoom out, have a look at the earth, I knew it was a scam all along, like the Moon landings. Trust Google to blow the coverup Wide Open !!!

You're wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

It works just fine in ALL versions of Firefox. Make sure you don't have "allow javascript to change images" disables.

Moran.

Re:Coffeyville

[newrisejohn]

The real question should be "why is 0,0 on the image tiles centered in a lake near Glen Elder, Kansas?"

I'd have to assume that it's the "center" of the available data. Why didn't they just use decimal lat/long of varying precisions for the tile numbers?

You're not using AdBlock by any chance?

[HeighYew]

Try listing blockable elements.

In addition to that,

[jdgreen7]

Imagine if they started using this for real estate searches, too. Just link all the local back-end MLS listings to whichever region you're searching in and end up with an MLS service that's better than what most realtors pay for. By partnering with some of the larger realty companies (Century 21, Remax, etc.), they could probably take over a good chunk of the industry in a matter of a few years and make it much easier for individuals to shop for houses without the assistance of a realtor...

Re:In addition to that,

[Uthiroid]

I doubt that the big boys in real estate are letting anyone else as big as google play in thier sandbox... They are currently drafting rules to limit "discount" MLS access, but congress is watching!

A more likely play is to create a new coalition to replace or subvert the MLS system.

Re:In addition to that,

[pipingguy]

Yeah. I founded a "love money"-funded startup called Homeplans Inc. (Ontario corporation) about 20 years ago and the goal was to provide pretty much exactly this type of service with the added option of having a draftsman create floor plans of the house to be sold. It would have cost about $250 and would have been incorporated into the real estate agent's fee.

Ready market in Toronto at that time, big bucks exchanging hands with rapidly-increasing house prices possibly due to the Anglo head office exodus from Montreal. I think Remax was just starting up in Hogtown then.

Now, back then, computers were still quite expensive (and, plus, I had an onion tied to my belt), so the whole idea was based on manual drafting (I.E., photocopying and then modifying commercial maps for driving directions as well as providing hand-drawn floor plans created by drafting students or unemployed draftsmen). The payoff for this seemingly labour-intensive element would eventually come as a big enough collection of similar house layouts was established and most work could be simple revisions to existing plans. With an appropriately-equipped cube van, all work could be done onsite "while-u-wait".

Then, having knowledge of a house layout, popular add-ons like factory pre-fabricated backyard wooden decks could be offered to the homeowner.

I recall visiting a mapping company and seeing their 80's-era computers and setup (must have been Intergraph-based at that time) and the end result was that the idea (for the directional maps) was not feasible at the time - I forget the details.

The technology simply wasn't there then and I was just an innocent young pup with a good idea but no influence/connections/marketing knowledge/schmooze experience.

Anyway, I have to stop writing now because I've run out of Slashdot's monthy allocation of the use of hyphenated terms.

Re:In addition to that,

[adamschneider]

I keep wanting to add support for MLS search result pages to GPS Visualizer, but since every regional system probably has its own output format, I would need to collect lots of sample files. The only one I can parse at the moment is RMLS (Portland, OR), since that's where we bought our house...

For now, at least, you can manually compile a list of houses you want to look at (addresses will suffice; GPS Visualizer can try to find the coordinates) and enter them into GPSV's address form.

Re:In addition to that,

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, I'm shopping for a place right now and the most trouble I'm having is determining the exact location of the properties. The whole MLS system is somewhat antiquated and the realtors just don't know how to create this mapping service that well. If you don't have the time to drive around town all day and be harrassed by a real estate agent then something like this could really save you a headache.

Re:Coffeyville

[gnuLNX]

Yes. This is the exact point of something great big and grand. It is sure oo-maze and stun all people (even the French). I urge you to quickly purchase as much land in this area as yo can possible afford....Las vegas House prices will seem like sweet dreams in comparison to what is about to take place at the center of maps.google.com

RTFA

[j3thr0]

Google Maps is using a hidden iframe to send messages back and forth

Re:RTFA

[theancient2]

Weren't iframes originally a Microsoft-only feature as well? :)

OK, this is...

[wowbagger]

OK, this is an example of a proper use of Javascript!

Now, among other things:

1. The ARRL needs to get Google to "know" about amateur radio repeaters and be able to search for them ("2M repeaters near wichita, ks")
2. The various state highway departments need to feed construction data into here.
3. Feed the National parks service data in (national parks in US)

Re:OK, this is...

[OverlordQ]

4) Feed in all major waterways.

Can you find the Arkansas? I sure cant :)

Push down harder with the mouse.

[chopper749]

If you have an old style mouse with the ball, it won't work. The newer mice should be able to get that map to slide. Also try clearing the area under the printed page on your desk to reduce friction.

Another example of an excellent online map

[Bio]

I want to point you to another example of an online map:

map.search.ch

This is Switzerland and not the US and it uses aerial photos with an overlay of vector street data. The resolution is amazingly good.

Furthermore:

• It is implemented with (D)HTML and Javascript only (like Google)
• You can move the map holding the mouse button pressed (like Google)
• You zoom in and out using mouse buttons 2 and 3

For me it's one of the most fascinating applications of web/html/javascript technique.

Re:Another example of an excellent online map

[Bio]

It's not that I like so much replying to my own postings :-), but I wan't to point out another online map:

GIS Kanton Zürich

It's a smaller region (a part of Switzerland), and on older implementation. The scrolling is not so nice, but it is also a Javascript only implementation and has a lot of functionality (e.g. areas can be measured).

It's a very nice example, what can be done with DHTML.

Yet Another Miserable Failure

[CHR1S]

Has anyone noticed that if you type interesting things in such as "Miserable Failure, Washington DC" It pulls up President Bush and several other humerous results?

Re:Yet Another Miserable Failure

[mge]

AI at work ? I wondered if GWB was the last resort if the search-term failed to reconcile with anything in the database.

So I tried any old crap, Washington DC. No, it didn't come back with GWB's address, but it was still accurate (See A and F).

Outsourcing

[tsmithnj]

you get what you pay for.......

There are all kinds of errors.

[Kickasso]

Renaming an actual street seems unusual, I agree.

when does info get updated?

[Anonymous Coward]

As a rule of thumb, does anyone know when maps are updated? Grand Rapids had the new Henry Highway open a few weeks before Thanksgiving and it still doesn't show up completed on any online sites i've tried (mapquest, yahoo and now Google). My Dad's directionally challenged and having a map to point out exactly which exit to take would be very helpful.

Not to beat the dead horse, but...

[spud603]

"hateful fearmongers in Washington, DC" returns just one, infinitely appropriate result.

Re:Not to beat the dead horse, but...

[Xebikr]

You should try "hateful fear mongers in Washington, DC". The space between the two words make a big difference.

Re:When it supports

[Nevenmrgan]

You know, this reminds me: I've noticed that my local sub shop does these things called "Philly cheesesteaks." I immediately filed a complaint, explaining that the majority of this planet's population would not know what "Philly" was. Come to think of it, most would not know what "cheese", "steak", or a "cheeseteak" were either. However, it turns out the neighborhood doesn't really care when they go out for food.

Re:"I'm not sure what the 'v' argument specifies,

[Anonymous Coward]

Not hard at all. changing the value for v has no effect on anything that I can discern.

Wrong name for University

[durbinshroom]

I work at the University of Southern Indiana, and the map has it as Indiana State University. Granted, they were affiliated, but that was something like 15 years ago. Other than that, it's awesome

Problem with all map sites.

[T-Keith]

Perhaps this is a problem with data supplier to all the map sites, but the last few addresses I've looked up showed up on the wrong side of the highway. They've all been along highway 169 in Minnesota, and they've all showed a completely wrong location.

I tried one of them(my work) on google and the results are the same.

SeaDragon / SandCodex

[wildsurf]

If you haven't already, check out the "SeaDragon" mapping technology at SandCodex.

Click Technology -> Demos to see it in action; liquid-smooth continuous zooming, into thousands of square miles.

This is the future of mapping software, I think.

Re:SeaDragon / SandCodex

[slim]

If you haven't already, check out the "SeaDragon" mapping technology at SandCodex.

Click Technology -> Demos to see it in action; liquid-smooth continuous zooming, into thousands of square miles.

W00T. Streaming video of a canned demo running on who knows what hardware. Map24 has an applet based smooth scrolling map application, covering North America (Canada in lower detail than the USA) and Europe which you can use for free, right now.

If that's what floats your boat.

Google's is sort of fun though: it's neat that it's in DHTML instead of needing Java. Map24 has the better functionality today.

Re:Coffeyville

[darthnoodles]

Because they are going to Kansas City. Kansas City here I come.

bookmark is broken

[jhewitt]

I'm blown away by Google Maps but there is one annoying problem that I've noticed: You can't just bookmark a map on Google Maps, you have to first click a "Link to this Page" link to put the state of the map into the URL.

I've described a simple solution for this problem on my blog just in case the folks at Google read Slashdot and want to make my new favorite mapping website just a little bit better :)

http://www.joehewitt.com/

Mod parent insightful

[Anonymous Coward]

'nuff said.

It's not easy.

[Kickasso]

The map is tiled, so you need to somehow produce a big image from all the pieces and then convert it to JPEG. Coding it in Javascript would be a real mess, and doing it server-side kinda defeats the point.

You can easily convert PS or PDF to JPEG with ImageMagick (yes I'm a geek).

Where is the rest of the world?

[Anonymous Coward]

does it distress anyone else that the rest of the world is missing?

Re:Where is the rest of the world?

[lejerdemayn]

it's beta for some reason...

Recommendation

[smittyoneeach]

If you zoom out, you only see North America. Right. Here is the plan:
Since we already have Map Making, obviously, we need to have one of our cities with lots of shields building the Lighthouse. Pick one with copious food on hand, and let it run at a food deficit to speed up production. Check on it every turn, so a riot doesn't interrupt production.
Get one or two other cities building triremes, and make sure we have some settler and phalanx units handy, so that we can start exploring as soon as the ships are ready.
If they come rolling in from Asia or Europe or South America with a bunch of chariots, make peace as soon as possible and try to negotiate for technology.
I think the situation is grave, but, with proper planning and a pinch of luck, we can pull this out.
<Leslie Nielson voice>I just want you to know that we're all depending on you.</Leslie Nielson voice>

No Scale

[Momoru]

Google Maps is awesome, but i cant believe it doesn't have a scale bar! Its really difficult to tell what mileage things are as the crow flys.

awful

[jeif1k]

It's great that Google put in the hard work to make this work. But, really, the underlying browser technology for this sort of thing is just awful: it just shouldn't be that hard. In part, it's limitations in JavaScript. In part, it's lack of vector graphics and client-side graphics APIs.

Unicode support

[vistic]

Mac OSX has full Unicode support and you can type in all sorts of weird scripts in any program, except Mozilla. If you go to a Chinese or Hindi website, the title bar will display correctly (since this falls under OSX's control) but the page contents will be messed up. Try it in Safari, which is OSX native, and the title bar and all the contents display perfectly.

Re:Unicode support

[Dahan]

Works fine for me... at least Chinese does (and Japanese, and Korean, and Thai, and Arabic, and Hebrew); I don't have any fonts with Devanagari characters, so neither Mozilla nor Safari could display Hindi. Tested with Mozilla 1.7 and Firefox 1.0 on OSX 10.2.8.

bug in the map

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a "unique feature in the map". In Firefox, on Linux at least (in KDE) if you click on the zoom bar with a middle mouse click you get an different web page altogether. The guy behind me somehow managed to get a web page for Canadian nudists...I was not so "fortunate"

Re:Wrong name for Rail Road

[Student_Tech]

Similar thing here. They call the railline through my home town Washington Central, hasn't been called that for years.
It has been BNSF for about the last 5 or more that I can recall of the top of my head.

Makes you wonder where they aquired the information if some of these things are that much out of date.

Recent search revealed!

[Anonymous Coward]

Go to a location:
Mark Jen's flat to unemployment office

Um, WOW

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to live in the backwoods of Idaho on a nasty old road that nobody wants to travel on. We used to always tell people that, once they turned onto our difficult-to-find road, they should travel exactly 6.2 miles.

Doing a search from my current abode to my old one, I was extremely impressed to see Google Maps telling me to travel 6.2 miles from the start of the road to the destination. A few other locations seem to be accurate, though they favor main roads more than backroads sometime, but that's to be expected, and probably preferred often enough.

All I can say is, Wow. Even for Google, I'm impressed.

All well and good, but misses the interesting part

[nicpottier]

This misses the really interesting part, where (and how) is the conversion done from lattitude and longitude to the Google scale of x and y?

That's what is preventing me from doing neato stuff using maps.google and I know it's got to be done in the browser somewhere, but apparently I'm too dumb to figure it out.

Has anybody figured this out yet? It's completely glossed over here, and I don't think it's because it's obvious..

-Nic

Re:Why aren't competitors beating Google to market

[Anonymous Coward]

Simple, not every company can acquire ex-Internet Explorer/browser developers who know the rendering engines inside out.

more interesting searches

[oldbox]

try searching for google headquarters. Apparently all this inovation comes from a small town in Oklahoma.

Seriously, are these results from some sort of web search for an address on the same page as the phrase? I can't imagine them coming from any type of white page.

mapbox

The center of The United States

[oldbox]

The google map is NOT centerd on the Geographical Center of the United States, but close to the intersection of 2200 and 4300 Rd. in Dearing, Kansas (just zoom in without a search).

middlebox

It Client Site PostBack

[Gambit-x7x]

three is numerous way to do this... as well as hidden iFrame and imgRequest/reload as well as JavaScript http Fetch.... so no Microsoft just created another way proprietary way...

Middle of Nowhere

[strider( corinth )]

Anybody remember the old Macintosh Map CDEV? (Or was it a Desk Utility? I can't remember.) It had a location for "Middle of Nowhere". Looks like Google Maps has one too:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=middle%20of%20nowh er e&sll=37.062500%2C-95.677068&sspn=47.687500%2C81.5 64923

What's really interesting is that it's changed since yesterday, when it was located in northern Idaho.

easily tied in with GPS

[utexaspunk]

I love how it uses lat/long coordinates for the image requests. It can't be too difficult now to make an app for handhelds w/GPS to automatically pull down info for your current location.

On a related note, do any of the gps units for pocket PCs have electronic compasses? It would be really sweet if you could have a map that rotated with your current orientation...

We neeg gmessenger

[pacoworld]

When we are going to herard that there is a G-Messenger??

max of only 10 hits with no secondary pages?

[cashman73]

I have to say that Google Maps is awesome! The user interface is clean and fast (using Mozilla Firefox here), the information is, for the most part, accurate. I also like the easy searchable language options as well. Google is definitely on to something here.

But it is definitely still in beta.

One thing that I've noticed is that each search only results in a max of 10 hits, and there are no links for additional pages or hits beyond 10. I noticed this doing a quick search for, "Pizza, Louisville, KY." Being the corporate headquarters of both Pizza Hut (Yum! Brands) and Papa John's, I KNOW there are more than 10 pizza places in the city.

Granted, I can see why they may not want to put too many hits on one page, but I would expect at least a link to secondary pages. Let's hope that this is in the works, soon.

On the bright side, they do have a link to the best local brewpub in America. :-)

No, Safari supports XmlHttpRequest

[jhurshman]

No, XmlHttpRequest is not the culprit. Safari (1.2+) supports that just fine.

Still slightly lacking

[fluxrad]

The map is awesome, but I'm sticking with mapquest until Google gets their directions together. I tested getting directions from my house to work and Google tries to send me pretty far out of my way.

So...either their logic needs updating before it goes 1.0 or they've got a sweet deal going with the 20 extra Starbucks' I'm going to pass on my way to work every morning.

Just like enemy of the state, dude!

[mveloso]

In a few more months, they'll be able to overlay realtime images across those maps. That'd be handy for a couple of things:

* traffic maps, for drivers
* police incidents
* realtime tactical maps for warfare
* other, random interdiction efforts (illegal immigrants)
* forest management
* wild game management (herd tracking, poaching, etc)

What's great is if they integrate it in with keyhole (or a bunch of 1 meter resolution sat images that operate in semi-realtime) you could internationalize arms verification by allowing home activists to become monitors.

Imagine, you could monitor the Iranian nuclear power plants (or the North Korean ones) at home, for the IAEC. That brings privatization to a whole new level. Likewise you can tap into the obsessed hobbyist market and allow individuals to adopt an area of coverage, like a forest, and watch of illegal logging.

It's fun to speculate, but it's unclear how practical this stuff would be.

Safari is very difficult for JS development

[jhurshman]

I am a big user of Safari, but as a web developer, it's very difficult to develop in.

The main reason for this is that the JavaScript error notifications are almost 100% useless. You have to turn them on in the "Debug" menu (which you need a little hack to activate), and even then you get helpful things like this: "(event handler):Undefined value"

No file name, no line number, no context, just a vague message. It's back to the old methods of inserting a zillion alerts and trying to figure out what the problem is. It's quite the let-down after developing for Gecko (using Venkman).

In addition, there are some irritating JavaScript/DOM bugs which I hope will be zapped in the Tiger version. Some examples:

• The cellIndex property on TD elements is always 0.
• The rows collection of a table contains all the TRs, but also all the THs. The rowIndex values are similarly screwed up.
• The Date.setUTC* methods are seriously screwed up in several ways.
• Date has the 2038 problem.
• No rich text editing (à la Midas).

Bravo

[Wraithlyn]

...and just like that, the sport of 'Funny Map Googling' was born. ;D

Check out "hippy beatniks in SF", LOL.

Re:Why aren't competitors beating Google to market

[geirhe]

Easy. The competitors are squeezing efficiency. Google employees get time to do off-the-marketing horizon stuff.

Nontrivial innovation doesn't happen while you are on a schedule. Tom DeMarco, "Slack" should be mandatory reading for every PHB.

This is the most impressive one I have seen...

[cr0sh]

Pity you have to pay for the engine to legally develop with it - but man, does it show the possibility (IE only, unfortunately):

TRIGLAV RPG

Re:Why aren't competitors beating Google to market

[Xtian]

Hmmm, you know, MapQuest and Google are both really primitive. THIS is what a decent mapping system is all about.

Google uses [SVG]

[Anonymous Coward]

They need to make a majour push with SVG as well. That would solve the scaling issue on the server end.

mod parent up..

[Anonymous Coward]

exactlty the opposite of what grandparent is implying is true

Mod parent Communist

[Anonymous Coward]

There can be only one nation, neal before Zod !

Solution to blank box problem in Firefox

[r0j]

For those having the problem with Firefox just showing a blank box, try the following: - Enable Javascript - Under "Advanced" for Javascript tick "Allow scripts to... Change Images" This worked for me. Dom.

not as effective as

[Linwood]

http://www.map24.com/http://map24.com I found this a while back.. way better than mapquest/google and any not-so-dynamic maps!

They don't have the financial resources...

[Wonderkid]

I saw a fantastic mapping system covering Oxford, England. Alas, I have lost the URL, but it used Java and did everything the latest Google maps do, plus real time rotation AND zooming, plus every single landmark, business, river, stream and whatever. However, chances are the company that developed it didn't have the staff or resources or business acumen to take it global or plug it into a major portal.

Mod parent jealous

[Anonymous Coward]

The poster must be from some 3'rd world country that can only dream of our awesome power.

Re:Why aren't competitors beating Google to market

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, who doesn't love a slow-loading, not-intuitive, unreadably-busy interface? Who doesn't love three layers of text overlapping each other?

Mo stuff does not equal mo better.

Wrong address

[rleibman]

I tried it, and while I was impressed with its workings, I was less that impressed with its suggestion that I move. I live in a new subdivision, so my street isn't on the map, so it suggested another street with a different (though similar) name in another zip code.

Re:When it supports

[BillsPetMonkey]

If you're saying that the staff at google are on a par with the people working at your subway on this, then I'm in agreement.

In fact, a "philly" is probably philadelphia soft cheese? That's fine but the majority of the connected population still doesn't share the same geography as Google. Or you local sandwich shop.

Re:When it supports

[Anonymous Coward]

Like 94% of US citizens, can I guess you don't own a passport?

Re:When it supports

[Anonymous Coward]

# Northeast USA

# Southeast USA

# Northwest USA

# Southwest USA

Your knowledge of world geography is almost as good as google's. Have you considered applying?

Re:When it supports

[Nevenmrgan]

People at my "subway"? Philadelphia soft cheese? You're not "connected" to the majority of the connected population yourself, bud.

Re:When it supports

[BillsPetMonkey]

The idea that someone should be ridiculed for not being familiar with US culture could be modded funny. Were it not for the fact that I think you actually mean it.

Thanks, but no thanks, "bud".

Second Order, Please

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there a second-order slashdotting going on here? http://www.sandcodex.com/ is linked from a comment, and it appears to have been /.ed too.

My favorite search so far

[halr9000]

"brothels near reno" :)

Here is the link:

[ImaLamer]

Yes, it's true!

A Google Maps search for "litigious bastards in salt lake city" results in this

Re:Here is the link:

[ImaLamer]

Even crazier searching for "whore in salt lake city" gives you these results, which include SCO and the Church or Latter Day Saints.

http://map.search.ch/ rocks!

[jpatokal]

I thought Google Maps was spiffy, but this is just insanely cool! Took me less than 1 minute to spot the house where I lived near Geneva over 10 years ago, and the satellite map even shows the community swimming pool and the nearby farm sheds full of stinky fertilizer. I can almost hear the cowbells ringing...

Note that you can also check the "Strasseskarte" box to switch between the satellite view and the just-the-facts-ma'am road map view.

Cheers,
-j.

Google Suggest - Not Ready

[Anonymous Coward]

Slightly OT, but I wonder if Google doing these beta's could hurt more than help.

For instance, doing a Google Suggest on "Nigeria" displays more than one potentially offensive suggestions when you have the "n-i-g" entered.

Do you all think this is a liability for them?

We know that they aren't responsible for the contents of the pages that the search brings up, but what about the suggestions that they offer?

Cool technology anyway. I think I'll have to play around with XMLHttpRequest a bit myself.

Or security fanatics ;-)

[australopith]

"George W Bush" in Washington, DC

Too Much Horror Movie Watching

[pipingguy]

That well-known innovation cry, "Brains! We need more brains!" is being misinterpreted by clueless decision-makers as meaning that eating skull contents/stunting normally-creative synapses and remaining cells is the thing to do.

I'd include a screenshot of Carly chowing down on HP employee plebes' cranium innards, but I think I've said enough already on too many levels of understanding.

Had to try...

[Roger W Moore]

"stupid twit in washington DC"

No prizes for guessing the address of the individual that came top...

Google Directions Bookmarklet

[Anonymous Coward]

Alex King posted a Google Directions bookmarket as a stop-gap until they support saving locations.

Pizza in Detroit???

[Equis]

Apparently there's still no pizza in Detroit.

Those bastards in Windsor, Ontario, Canada are hoarding all our pizza.

With Little Ceasar's, Domino's and Hungry Howies all based out of Detroit, you'd think we'd have some of our own.

;-)

Re:no workee for me - me too.

[.smoke]

Thank you! I can finally see the maps now! That was it. I routinely disable all those "extra" things that javascript is allowed to do. Just reenabling the change images option in Firefox did it for me.

Or, Cool Stuff

[weston]

Seemingly, Google actually *wants* to build cool stuff. And they care about making it cool, with these little extra details other companies might overlook as frou-frou.

In this way, they're a bit like Apple. But priced for just about anyone. :)

OT

[Seraphim_72]

Where is your sig from? I have to ask because my Boss is named Mark Anderson - I would love to post it to his office door.

Sera

Re:OT

[Reducer2001]

I was watching C-SPAN one day and this author (Mark Anderson) said it. I think he's also a musician.

Google is fulfilling prophecy

[Dracos]

Didn't Marc Andreesen claim 10 years ago that Netscape would make Windows irrelevant? I don't remember the exact quote.

Well, its not playing out exactly like that. Web based apps are making the OS irrelevant, and Google is leading the way, opening the doors that MS has tried to keep shut for the past decade. Sure, web technology has matured a lot since 1995, and will continue to do so, regardless of IE, MS Word, J#, .NET, and all the other wheels that MS reinvents when they see potential in an open technology.

Re:When it supports

[Quill_28]

You are complaining that the maps only work in the US?

Golly, thats shocking considering it a US company and it's in beta.

And yes I have traveled outside the US.

GPSBabel now supports Google Maps

[parkrrrr]

I'm sure nobody cares anymore, since this has fallen off the front page, but the current CVS version of GPSBabel now decodes the route information from Google Maps XML files (the stuff the perl code above was supposed to deal with.)

The code's a lot cleaner, too, for you picky folks.