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Forcing God's Hand
Pat Robertson

Actually working to immanentize the eschaton is supposed to be unChristian, according to most denominations. But there is a significant Dispensationalist movement in the US that can hardly contain its glee when US or Israeli actions seem to fulfill one of their prophecies.

Muslims, you may not be aware, believe Jesus is the second most important prophet and also revere all the Old Testament fortune-tellers.

Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell publicly denounced the use of all modern medicine to save lives? Or is it that they have specific objections to specific technology (which is what my point was, and why the GP's position was such a strawman)?

Again, your post demands a big, fat, [citation needed].

The GP was not attempting to refute the statement that there were moderate Christians, and not refuting anything actually. The GP attempted to add the characterization of loud to what that poster was claiming was an "insignificant" group.

Without refutation, you cannot have a strawman. Now, I will admit it was terse and probably acerbic, but it is nonetheless accurate and insightful. It does not matter that the group of Christians is claimed to be small and not representative of the majority viewpoint if they are so "loud" that they seemingly represent a majority viewpoint in the media, and a significant representation in legislation and policy.

As for citations,

News story about Pat Robertson's organization

Interview by Pat Robertson of a Doctors book on bioethics in which he aligns himself with viewpoints supporting my characterization of him being against stem cell research

Jerry Falwell obit summarizing position against stem cell research

Another news story that expands upon the position in the obit

I could go on... but their position on stem cell research and bioethics is well known and based only the Bible. Although, Mr. Falwell was specific about a 3-part test including ethics, morality, and the Bible. Ethics is meaningless since it is just a lump of flesh freely given and whatever considerations for right and wrong are not derived from any inherent universal truth or logic. Morals in this instance are derived from the Bible and not from any distinct philosophy or culture. So really it just a Biblical test.

Also, "people who identify as christian" is absolutely worthless as a category. Check some of the polling stats to see how incredibly diverse that "category" is, from protestants to mormons to unitarians to people who went to church once back in '94. I think one poll had 75% identifying as christian, but only some 50% identifying Christ as the son of God, and even fewer believing in a personal God. I have no doubt that you can find self-identified christians who are in favor of just about anything you could think of.

That's kind of the whole point. The GP was stating that those Christians who opposed stem cell research were just a minority. Well, just about anybody can identify as Christian and sell their morality as the so-called correct derivation of Biblical truth. Heck, even the majority of KKK members claim to be Christian and can derive their racism from Biblical truth.

It is those who do so the loudest that are at issue here.

What do you know, Im one of them, because I dont think you can be a christian and have a subjective morality; it must be based on SOMETHING. That doesnt mean I deny the use of any modern medicine.

That sounds contradictory.

Without trying to offend you, I believe that all morality derived from the Bible is more or less subjective. By that, I mean that other than some universal truths in the Bible, most of the morals derived from it seem pretty damned arbitrary to me and mostly just related to the culture at that time.

The fact you mention subjective morality indicates to me that you are a thoughtful Christian and your faith is constructed by carefully reasoned interpretations of the Bible. Much better than some idiot just parrotin

and an opportunity for members to brag about their moronic "mod points".

Blow it out your asses.

Fuck Bush.

in the United Gulags of America.

Thanks for your PatRIOTism.

Remember: Vote Communists For Freedom

PatRIOTically Forever,
Filipino Monkey

and seize ALL the assets of the American Taliban.

Thanks for your PatRIOTism.

Would someone please stick a sock in this Imam's mouth?

Thanks in advance,
Kilgore Trout, Patriot

My topic is nothing new. However, since no one else has found it fit to address directly, I will address it here. It is worth noting at the outset that when Pat Robertson was first found trying to direct social activity toward philanthropic flimflam rather than toward the elimination of the basic deficiencies in the organization of our economic and cultural life, I was scared. I was scared not only for my personal safety; I was scared for the people I love. And now that Robertson is planning to commit confrontational, in-your-face acts of violence, intimidation, and incivility, I'm indubitably terrified. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that he owns drawers and boxes full of legal documents, which he is convinced prove his position? Stripping from the term "counterexpostulation" the negative connotations it evokes, I will try to solve the problems of phallocentrism, deconstructionism, economic inequality, and lack of equal opportunity. Robertson is trying hard to convince a substantial number of self-centered gasbags to cause this country to flounder on the shoals of self-interest, corruption, and chaos. He presumably believes that the "hundredth-monkey phenomenon" will spontaneously incite distasteful carpetbaggers to behave likewise. The reality, however, is that if Robertson doesn't realize that it's generally considered bad style to mold the mind of virtually every citizen -- young or old, rich or poor, simple or sophisticated -- then he should read one of the many self-help books on the subject. I recommend he buy one with big print and lots of pictures. Maybe then, Robertson will grasp the concept that he claims that if he kicks us in the teeth, we'll then lick his toes and beg for another kick. I would say that that claim is 70% folderol, 20% twaddle, and 10% another homophobic attempt to force us to do things or take stands against our will. Robertson's argument that without his superior guidance, we will go nowhere is hopelessly flawed and totally circuitous. If Robertson were to use more accessible language, then a larger number of people would be able to understand what he's saying. The downside for Robertson, of course, is that a larger number of people would also understand that small minds are little troubled by this. Excuse me; that's not entirely correct. What I meant to say is that frightful four-flushers like Robertson often think they have the right to cure the evil of discrimination with more discrimination. Am I aware of how Robertson will react when he reads that last sentence? Yes. Do I care? No, because I have a dream, a mission, a set path that I would like to travel down. Specifically, my goal is to identify, challenge, defy, disrupt, and, finally, destroy the institutions that pursue an oligophrenic agenda under the guise of false concern for the environment, poverty, civil rights, or whatever. Of course, time cannot change his behavior. Time merely enlarges the field in which Robertson can, with ever-increasing intensity and thoroughness, trick us into trading freedom for serfdom.

The simple, regrettable truth is that Robertson's values represent a backward step of hundreds of years, a backward step into a chasm with no bottom save the endless darkness of death. Dysfunctional oligarchs demand the advantages other people have earned without the disadvantages, like having to earn them. Yet there is one crucial fact that we must not overlook if we are to perceive our current situation as it is, rather than in the anamorphosis of some "ideology" such as simplism or mandarinism. Specifically, just the other day, some of Robertson's ultra-maledicent mercenaries forced a prospectus into my hands as I walked past. The prospectus described Robertson's blueprint for a world in which the most pharisaical big-mouths you'll ever see are free to sensationalize all of the issues. As I dropped the prospectus onto an overflowing waste

There are lots of christians like us. The only ones that get attention are people like Pat Robertson http://www.patrobertson.com/Biography/index.asp "You have voted /. out of your city, so now /. will abandon you."

To me immorality lies in not seeking truth, and blindly following anything.

How many of him can sit on the head of a pin. Now that is the real question. I am sure if you ask Big BlueGene/L it will tell you 0^2 However it will take the silly American creationists years and millions of tax payers to find out.

Dear Patriots:

Defend democracy by adding your name to this petition
to deport Pat Robertson to the United Kingdom for
making terroristic threats against the democratically elected Hugo Chavez.

The Global Stuggle Against Violent Extremism urges you to sign this petition to deport Pat Robertson to the United Kingdom where, according to U.K. laws, he will again be deported for engaging in behaviors "not conducive to the public good." :

The list, which the Home Office says is "indicative rather than exhaustive", will cover any foreign-born national "writing, producing, publishing or distributing material, public speaking including preaching, running a website; or using a position of responsibility such as teacher, community or youth leader to express views which foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs; seek to provoke others to terrorist acts; foment other serious criminal activity or seek to provoke others to serious criminal acts; or foster hatred which might lead to inter-community violence."

Thank you and have a Bush_Cheney_Rice_Rove_Rumsfeld_free-day,
Kilgore Trout, C.E.O.

Forcing someone to do something against their will was not what Jesus was about.

There a large number of people who call themselves "christians" who have repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to use the might of the Government to force everyone else to live according to the dictates of their religion.

Part of the problem is that practically no one can agree on a definition of what a "christian" really is.

From my observations, a typical member of the religious right would define a Christian as being "someone who belives that the Bible is the literal, inerrant Word of God, and has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior." There are millions of people who would be "Christians" under this definition -- but there are many, many "Christians" who don't meet this definition.

From my (admittedly dim) recollections of Sunday School, the Roman Catholic church teaches a more inclusive definition: everyone who has been baptized is a Christian. This definition covers a lot of people who don't meet the more stringent fundimentalist protestant definiton above.

Personally, I believe the rational definition of Christian is "someone who lives their life in accordance with the actual moral philosophy taught by Jesus of Nasareth himself" (as opposed to those, for example, who follow the contridictory teachings of Paul of Tarsus). There are very, very few people on the planet who qualify as Christians under this more stringent definition. You don't see this kind of Christian very often, because they are usually out meekly serving others, instead of making themselves rich and famous by preaching hatred and intolerance on the television while scamming money from their congregations.

Why the obvious choices are Dan Glickmanfor the former, and a very special joint collaboration of James Dobson and Pat Robertson for the latter!

Welcome to the Jesus Jihad. We are determinied, as God-endorsed Christians,
to destroy any opposition to our political puppet, George W. Bush, in order to gain entrance to heaven. We endorse war, Israel, and the military-industrial-fascist regime of The United States of
America.

And, remember, when you visit my God-endorsed Web site The 700 Club,
don't forget to purchase the many products that should be otherwise taxed if it were not for the IRS courteous designation of our tax-empt status.

Remember: War is Christian

Godly As Always,
Pat Robertson

Divination is a particularly bad occupation. Why waste your time making predictions about things you couldn't possibly know? It just makes you sound like a douchebag when you're wrong. (Which is probably more often than not.)

So I went to the source.

It's pretty much true, that's how he really feels. :-(