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So why aren't more companies selling boxes with preloaded MythTV?

No content controls. CableCard won't sell to anyone that cannot lock-down their systems (probably due to pressure from the content providers), so they're only available to closed-source systems, like TiVO, MediaCenter, etc... systems. As a result, MythTV can only record unencrypted broadcasts (Cable or OTA) either analog or digital.

A lot of members of the general public (that is, not the hardcore geek demographic overrepresented on Slashdot) don't want to have to buy a dedicated PC and spend hours learning how to secure it and set up MythTV.

It doesn't *have* to be a dedicated PC or even one PC - the front (display) / back (record/database) ends can be split. And you can have multiple frontends using a single backend. Split front/back ends don't even have to be the same OS,

Download and install MythBuntu or simply run "apt-get mythtv" (on Debian/-based or equivalent on RedHat, etc...). The setup is menu-driven. If your system is behind a NAT firewall there's no need for extra security, but it's all just Linux (or FreeBSD). Scheduling can be obtained from Schedules Direct for $25/year and MythTV knows all about them.

Capture/tuner cards can be bought from Amazon or where ever. I have 2 Hauppauge 250 (internal) cards in my system. MythTV even supports USB and Firewire devices - and can even use your cable decoder, if it supports USB/Firewire (which, I believe HD units are required to by law - in the US anyway).

Seriously, it took me 10 minutes to setup MythTV in 2007, from a base Ubuntu install - it's even easier now.

No need to hassle with scraping for your EPG data, when an annual subscription to Schedules Direct is only $25 year.

There's also a 2 month 'tryout' for $6, to test how well it integrates with your media OS.

Their website lists about 4 dozen or so applications their service works with-

http://www.schedulesdirect.org/

If you want reliable guide data you can pay Schedules Direct $25/year for an XML feed that you can use with whatever program you want. It's how I get guide data for my media portal based HTPC.

I've been using Schedules Direct successfully ever since it came out.

Have you tried it?

If you're using a TiVo, as a TiVo, without paying TiVo, you're 'stealing'.

No, you're not. If you paid $ for a piece of hardware, that's your hardware. Perhaps you mean attempting to access TiVo's schedule/listing service with an unofficial client, or otherwise outside the terms of its contract. Alternate, platform-neutral and OSS-friendly listings services do exist, try http://www.schedulesdirect.org/ .

$20 a year for a subscription to the channel guide is not really all that much, and in my experience the one I'm subscribed to http://www.schedulesdirect.org/ is very accurate.

I used to use the precursor (Zap2it Labs) for my hacked (to work in Canada before Tivo had Canadian support) Tivo. Back then it was free, but they had problems with people abusing the system, so they went to a very cheap subscription model.

For the record, mythtv users in the US are paying $20/year for guide info from schedules direct. I suppose some folks are scraping web sites for the info but it's not officially supported.

You chose a closed solution with little flexibility over paying $20 *per year* for guide data? Really? Meh, to each his/her own, I guess.

Mostly it was I got it for free from work, and had grown frustrated with MythTV. I'm thinking of looking back into it, and granted the schedule thing isn't that big of a deal :-)

Fortunately, you can hook XBMC into MythTV. Wouldn't that be a solution for you?

I guess that's what I wasn't sure of. So XBMC can run on an xbox and hook into MythTV? Or does XBMC need to be running on an actual computer (possibly even the same MythTV box?) to actually be able to use the DVR things that MythTV does? Hmmmm...I'll have to look into this - thanks!

I used to use MythTV but hated the interface;

Can't blame you there, it is... rough. But it is immensely capable, so I've learned to live with it's rough edges in exchange for the incredible power it provides (and being a programmer, I can't help but love being able to write custom SQL recording rules :).

that combined with the free TV guides going away

You chose a closed solution with little flexibility over paying $20 *per year* for guide data? Really? Meh, to each his/her own, I guess.

Fortunately, you can hook XBMC into MythTV. Wouldn't that be a solution for you?

Back when my cable provider (Charter) first offered their DVR's, I discovered that with 3 adults, all with different viewing tastes, one DVR with it's standard recording capabilities and storage capacity was simply not up to our household's time-shifted viewing appetites.

Attempts to obtain a second DVR, at an additional monthly expense, were solidly refused by Charter. They maintained that their supply of DVR units was limited, and that providing more than one DVR in the same household was not part of their business plan. Not a very smart move, from my viewpoint, when you consider that most satellite services have been offering the option of multiple DVR's for quite some time now. Isn't it wonderful how having an exclusive cable territory allows cable operators to ignore customers wants/needs and adopt a take it or leave it attitude towards the quality of services provided? Oh, well, that's a rant for another day.

Solution to this dilemma?

KnoppMyth http://www.mysettopbox.tv/

I started out small, with one PVR-150 and one frame grabber tuner in the backend, a minimalist frontend, and 80 Gb of storage (2 times the storage on the Charter DVR).

Today my backend supports 3 PVR-150's, the ability to record (paid for) premium channels by using a digital converter feeding directly into one of the PVR's, 3 frontends, and 750Gb of online storage, with an additional 300Gb on a separate NAS for archival storage of my personal DVD collection. All four units have fully supported APC battery backup systems, which protects against data loss here in rural Michigan, where the power can be unstable, even at the best of times. The frontends have replaced the need for stand alone DVD players at each of the 3 viewing stations, and anything that has been recorded can be viewed at anytime by anyone. Additionally, my entire music collection, which is quite extensive, since I am an independent DJ/Karaoke operator, can be accessed from the frontends, mapped into the Knoppmyth backend and stored on the same NAS as the media files.

Being relatively new to LINUX at the beginning, there was a bit of a learning curve, especially as the system evolved into it's current configuration, but there was always a wealth of information on the MythTV website http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page and the KnoppMyth User Forums http://www.knoppmyth.net/phpBB2/

Interestingly enough, Charter subsequently did add the ability to add an additional external USB hard drive to extend the storage capacity of their original DVR, but since it shares it's resources with viewing and recording tasks, it simply lacks the flexibility of the Knoppmyth backend.

Expanding storage costs aside, and using eBay as a bargain outlet for components, the backend unit ran about $250 to bring to it's current state, and each frontend ran $150 or less. After that, the only other expense is the $20/yr subscription fee to Schedules Direct http://www.schedulesdirect.org/ to obtain the needed TV listings data, which is hands down the biggest entertainment bargain you could find anywhere.

Up next, the addition of a slave backend to support a recently acquired HDTV tuner to record unencrypted QAM cable channels, and additional tuners for those rare occasions when I do actually max out the system's recording abilities.

Note: I realize this post is somewhat off topic, since the original posting is about suing Time Warner for the right to use alternative set top boxes, but there are already alternative solutions available, such as MythTV and it's various derivatives, which can obtain virtually any functionality, short of a cable card, that the user desires, and requires no special lawsuit to implement on any current cable operators system.

DaveJ45

I'm out of the loop these days. I used to have a DirecTivo (series 1) which I'd upgraded the HDD, put a NIC in and could download any shows I wanted to put on CD/DVD. Been a good 4 years since I sold it off.

Since then, I moved to MyhtDora (Fedora + MythTV, with install almost 99% automated). I love it, but I'm out of the loop on what Tivo and Dish have to offer.

Just what is Tivo suing Dish over?

If anyone knows both MythTV and Tivo, what features does Tivo have that I can't do on my MythTV box (for virtually free, other than the Schedules Direct $20/year listing fee)?

The MythTV box I use at home (version 0.20) is pulling listings data from Schedules Direct, the service created to replace Zap2it's listings service.

You missed the point of that quote that involves not paying someone else for the service.

That would be because you never made that point.

But what happens when your Tivo's hard drive fails?

I can't say. I would assume Tivo has some sort of warranty on their products, but I've never owned one. Meanwhile, if one of the drives in my system fails, I just replace it. And because I'm using RAID-based storage, I never have to worry about losing a recording. Can you say the same for your "superior" PVR product?

You can get that for free from your cable company, or pay Tivo an extra $12 a month.

Or you get it for about $1.50 per month from here, and use whichever third party PVR product you prefer (well, aside from TiVo, obviously).

And I will *guarantee* you, my Myth system will do far more than your HD PVR ever will, and is far more expandable and customizable. The only problem is, because cable companies like yours have locked down their systems to third party gear (while offering unbelievably crappy PVR products of their own), I can't get direct access to HD feeds, among other things. Now, that doesn't really bother me much, since I won't be going HD any time soon, and I have a very nice setup for doing capture of SD, but for many it's a deal breaker, and all because cable companies like your own are nothing more than greedy bastards. It's basically the cell phone market all over again.

Now, I will be the first to admit that a setup like mine isn't for many (or even most). But I would be willing to bet you would see a proliferation of new PVR products, and users, if cable operators opened their networks. Further, it might encourage the cable cos to release higher quality PVRs of their own. But, unfortunately, that ain't gonna happen.

Didn't the guide service that Myth tv uses shut down? Or would I have to program it all by hand, vcr style?

Yes, Zap2It stopped offering free schedules to MythTV users. Here is the replacement for that service. There is a small fee to use Schedules Direct.

http://www.schedulesdirect.org/

I've been using KnoppMyth for about 2-1/2 years now, and the data was free the whole time. Now that a few "bad apples" spoiled the free data-feed, we have to pay. That's too bad, but I don't mind. I'm paying the $2.50/month fee to SchedulesDirect because the freedom that MythTV provides is worth it. I don't care if SchedulesDirect is a non-profit or a for-profit. If they provide the data I need to record/watch the cable shows I want, WHEN I want, that's good enough for me. Thanks, MythTV, KnoppMyth, and SchedulesDirect!

IIRC, Zap2it is terminating the free service because of that exact reason - all they said was that there were many users who were "abusing" the service. They never came out and said exactly what it is, but it must have pissed them off pretty bad. I think if you just used the service the way it was intended to be used, they wouldn't go after you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see the "not doing anything to piss off anyone at Tribune Media Services, even if you didn't know it would." line in the agreement anyway. I don't think they'd risk their goodwill by going out of their way to sue a random mythtv user anyway.

However the problem I have with SD is their "Agreement" - in order to get the listings, you have to agree to some pretty damn onerous things, including "not doing anything to piss off anyone at Tribune Media Services, even if you didn't know it would."

get modded informative for mentioning http://www.schedulesdirect.org/ like everyone else has?

Here.... http://www.schedulesdirect.org/

I am surprised the submitter did not mention Schedules Direct. It is not free, but it should have been mentioned.

Anyway, check it out.

I am glad people have mentioned SchedulesDirect. But, you know, free doesn't mean "costs money", so I'm surprised so many people CONTINUE to post yet more threads on schedulesdirect.

          Found at http://forums.schedulesdirect.org/viewtopic.php?f= 7&t=43&start=10:

zap2xml
http://zap2xml.110mb.com/

YahooXMLTv
http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.php?t=27546

MSN_XMLTV_scraper
http://planetreplay.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=143 14

          I am using MSN_XMLTV_scraper, running under Wine personally. To run under Wine, you need msxml6.msi, install that with "msiexec /i msxml6.msi". For GZIP compression to work (which you do want, so MSN doesn't get cheesed and start changing the format...), I had to install wininet.dll into /root/.wine/drive_c/windows/system32/ and run regedit, adding in HKCU/Software/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Int ernet Settings/EnableHttp1_1=0x00000001 . This is equivalent to checking "Enable HTTP1.1" in the Internet Options with Internet Explorer I guess. More or less, run the app once to set it up, then put in a cron job that runs "wine MSN_XMLTV_scraper_v54.exe /d" and feeds the XMLTV data into mythtv (I have a shell script that does all that.)

          The first run is very slow, but it caches the detailed program info so after the first run it's pretty fast.

Suck it up and use Schedules Direct just like everyone else. It isn't free. The opening cost is $15/3 month (with a 7 day trial). However, compiling schedules is not free. SD purchases them Tribune Media Services. But SD is a nonprofit company & they are free/open source friendly, having been formed by people involved with MythTV, XMLTV, and MacProgramGuide. I can think of worse places to send my money.

Free/open source PVRs are more functional than most proprietary competitors & the software itself will always be not only gratis, but free as in speech. If you want the cheapest possible service, you'll do better to get something with a lifetime subscription to guide content. But I prefer my freedom to a full pocketbook.

It'd be nice if the guide data would eventually become free/open. But who's going to provide it?

If you don't like SD, I guess you can try their competitor (if they ever release something for Linux). Or screen scrape for no cost.

The service is available for a quarterly charge of $15...

http://www.schedulesdirect.org/

http://www.schedulesdirect.org/

http://www.schedulesdirect.org/faq

Maybe, if you're doing it by yourself. It ain't gonna be pretty, nor reliable.

Second, you haven't been to XMLTV's website lately. They have plans to start their own listings website. http://schedulesdirect.org/ Two of the MythTV developers are involved.

Even if there was a hack, there is no open source solution for TV listings anymore. zap2it is discontinuing their free service, so XMLTV doesn't have a read source of listings any longer.

Ugh, I'm so sick of hearing about this.

1) XMLTV was scraping listings long before Zap2It Labs opened up. They can always go back to doing that.

2) There is an effort under way, spearheaded by members of various projects affected by this change, to find a solution to the problem (I believe they're actually working with Zap2It).

3) The cutoff is still a month and a half away, more than enough time to find a solution.

Honestly, what is with all this "the sky is falling!" BS?

Yes, MythTV's dev team has stated they can go back to website scraping, but that will break every single time the website's format is slightly altered.

Incase you are not aware the mythtv, xmltv and other projects are starting their own organization which will offer the same data as you get now from zap2it. The site is a little light on details right now though.

http://www.schedulesdirect.org/

The MythTV devs, along with devs from other projects, have started the Schedules Direct project to address this issue.