Domain: slimy.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to slimy.com.
Comments · 13
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Re:Er, what?
Oh, I agree in general about the dubious canonicity of Tolkien's Letters, but the point was that all the available evidence points in the same direction (and some of it comes from the text of LotR itself). The FAQ author discusses such caveats here: http://tolkien.slimy.com/faq/External.html#Canon
But since the evidence I linked was in support of your position, I'm not even sure why we're arguing; [smacks forehead] oh, right, this is Slashdot! That explains it. -
Re:Er, what?
It probably wasn't; the evidence is that Sauron had a physical, humanoid body at the time the action takes place. Here is the relevant entry from the Tolkien newsgroups' FAQ: http://tolkien.slimy.com/faq/Creatures.html#SauronForm
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Re:What about Tolkien?
Aha, but the film did not answer such questions as: WHAT is Tom Bombadil http://tolkien.slimy.com/essays/Bombadil.html#Sum
m ary, and WE can feel really smug knowing what REALLY happened to Aragorn.
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Tired he is, thirsty he is, and he guides them and he searches for paths, and they say sneak sneak. -
Re:All New ROTKTo further refine your comment, I think it you should note that the Elves aren't necessarily going to Valinor proper: they may be going to Tol Eressa, which is the Isle of the Elves, closer to Middle Earth before the breaking of the seas.
[Gandalf] was born in the West, in Valinor, and so he gets to go back.
Maiar are not "born" per se, but rather embodied from free-floating spirits. They are a lesser being than the Valar, who one might consider "Gods" after a fashion, although there is a creator above them, named Eru or the One. Sauron is of the same class of being. Gandalf and the rest of the Istari were sent to help the free peoples contest the might of Sauron; as such, he himself is barred from matching Sauron power against power. Only if he succeeds does he get to go back.
The curious may also wish to know that the Balrog is also a Maia (the singular of the noun Maiar), but most Balrogs were destroyed at the end of the First Age, while Lord of the Rings takes place at the end of the Third Age. Balrogs are of a mighty power leftover from an earlier time, which may be part of the reason Gandalf is allowed or allows himself to fight the Balrog. Interestingly, this is also the only place in the entire series in which he strives fully against another, putting forth all his might. In other cases -- such as Smaug in the Hobbit, the Captain of the Nazgul in ROTK, or Saruman at virtually any time, Gandalf does not actually wield his full strength.
Moving back on topic, Saruman, who fails, does not return to Valinor, and the fate of Radagast and the other Istari is not discussed in LOTR itself.
For a decent FAQ on the subject, see the rec.arts.books.tolkien FAQ.
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Middle-Earth is supposed to be our planetTGK, I agree completely with your points in 2, but not your point 1.
Here's what the Prologue to The Lord of the Rings says:
Those days, the Third Age of Middle-earth, are now long past, and the shape of all lands has been changed; but the regions in which Hobbits then lived were doubtless the same as those in which they still linger: the North-West of the Old World, east of the Sea.
Tolkien is clearly saying that a lot has changed since the Third Age, but Middle-Earth is our world.
More discussion of this question can be found here.
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Re:[Serious] Re:The Mystery of Tom Bombadil Solved
One possibility (as put forth here: What is Tom Bombadil? ) is that Tom Bombadil was the spirit of Middle Earth. Note that there are Nature spirits- Goldberry is basically a river spirit. She stays near her river and that's all well and good.
Tom, then, is the Nature spirit of all of middle earth. Thus was he first- he awake when the world was made, before the Ainur entered into it, before any of the Firstborn awoke.
It's as compelling as any other theory- I don't think he fits as a Maia, and too frivolous to be Eru. -
Re:The Mystery of Tom Bombadil Solved!A stronger case could be made, I think, that Bombadil was actually a subdued manifestation of Iluvitar
There are a lot of arguments about the nature of Tom online and in papers.
This is probably the best collection I've seen : What is Tom Bombadil?
Interesting stuff if you're a Tolkien geek..
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Re:Article author never read Tolkein
Shelob is a sticky point- she's descended from Ungoliant, who isn't of any of the above categories.
As for Bombodil, if he's Maia gone native he's either a liar or was the first of the Maiar to enter Middle Earth- he says he was first. My favorite theory is that he, like Goldberry, is a nature spirit, but while she's a spirit of that river, he's the spirit of all of middle earth...
See Essays on Tolkien Topics for that theory. :) -
Re:Who's Tom Bombadill?
Steuard Jensen has a differing opinion. Both Hargrove's and Jensen's essays are referenced in the The Encyclopedia of Arda entry.
From William D. B. Loos' essay:
As to Tom's nature, there are several schools of thought.
He was a Maia (the most common notion). The reasoning here is plain: given the Middle-earth cast of characters as we know it, this is the most convenient pigeonhole in which to place him (and Goldberry as well) (most of the other individuals in The Lord of the Rings with "mysterious" origins: Gandalf, Sauron, Wizards, and Balrogs did in fact turn out to be Maiar).
He was IlÃvatar. The only support for this notion is on theological grounds: some have interpreted Goldberry's statement to Frodo (F: "Who is Tom Bombadil?" G: "He is.") as a form of the Christian "I am that am", which really could suggest the Creator. Tolkien rejected this interpretation quite firmly.
T.A. Shippey (in The Road to Middle-earth) and others have suggested that Tom is a one-of-a-kind type. This notion received indirect support from Tolkien himself....
For the ill-informed conspiracy theorists out there, you might wish to read this.
And for those of you who say that public schools aren't turning out good work, you may wish to visit a less meticulous analysis (author unknown) from DPS. -
Tom Bombadil
That is a subject of intense discussion, apparently. I have no idea who or what he might be, possibly one of the angel-like beings who helped create the world? Here's some discussion of the mystery: Bombadil References
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Re:Will they...
For those that do not know, you might want to spend some time catching up to those of us who have actually read the book.
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Re:This story is a dupI'll make this a meta-comment in response to the parent and the other responses.
There are several interpretations one can make as to which "Two Towers" Tolkien was talking about: Orthanc and Barad-Dûr, Minas Tirith (Anor) and Minas Morgul (Ithil)... I hadn't heard anyone say they were supposed to be the Argonath before, tho...
In any case, there is a very strong case (see item #3) that the one true interpretation, what Tolkien intended, is for the Two Towers to refer to Orthanc and Minas Morgul, because these are the goals of the split parties of the Fellowship in Books III and IV, respectively. This is in contrast to the above reply that state's Book IV's goal was Barad-Dûr; Frodo and Sam don't even really enter Mordor until Book V. Additionally, the note at the end of The Fellowship of the Ring in the 3-volume edition of LotR refers to Orthanc and Minas Morgul as "The Two Towers", and Tolkien's own illustration for The Two Towers was clearly of those 2 structures.
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Re:The Two Towers
Here's some actual information on the title. (Don't worry, in spite of the odd-sounding domain, the link in genuine)