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Well, actually, stealing usually involves depriving somebody of property.

This Slashdot-promoted definition is wrong, and out of control. The counterexample is theft of labor, or in other words the service industry. If someone charges money to provide a service, say, mowing your lawn, and then you don't pay them for that service, that is theft, as defined by law. Here is your citation. When committing the crime of theft of labor, you have not deprived anyone of physical property, yet you have committed theft.

An hour of labor...

Well, actually, stealing usually involves depriving somebody of property.

This Slashdot-promoted definition is wrong, and out of control. The counterexample is theft of labor, or in other words the service industry. If someone charges money to provide a service, say, mowing your lawn, and then you don't pay them for that service, that is theft, as defined by law. Here is your citation. When committing the crime of theft of labor, you have not deprived anyone of physical property, yet you have committed theft.

Montana code 61-8-303(2) allows you to speed up to 10mph over the limit on two lane highways to safely pass another vehicle.

"A vehicle subject to the speed limits imposed in subsection (1) traveling on a two-lane road may exceed the speed limits imposed in subsection (1) by 10 miles an hour in order to overtake and pass a vehicle and return safely to the right-hand lane."

Montana already has that covered. http://data.opi.state.mt.us/BILLS/2009/BillHtml/HB0246.htm

You would think so, but I bet that in a lot of cases, they'd just treat your possession of the contraband as prima facie evidence of a crime.

It's like drug possession -- if the cops toss your car and find a kilo of China White or a handgun with the serial number scratched off in the glove compartment, your insistence that it's not yours may not keep you out of trouble. Just having it, in a place that was under your control, is the crime. A demonstration of intent is not necessary. In effect, it means that the burden of proof is shifted to the defendant to explain themselves, and if they cannot provide a justification for the evidence, they're guilty.

Frankly I think "prima facie" laws in general are a travesty of justice; we ought to abolish the whole philosophy and get back to a more intent-focused jurisprudence. But of course if you tried to do that, you'd be keelhauled for being supportive of crime and criminals, because in the short term it would make the work of the police harder.

In general, a lot of "possession" laws (drug possession, weapon possession, pornography, "burglar's tools") are intentionally written this way so that a demonstration of intent is unnecessary, and many laws include the phrase "prima facie" verbatim. (See this Montana weapon law, for example.)

More information you might want to read:
http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/p078.htm (deals with torts, specifically in employment law, but discussed the general concept)
http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=15 98&bold=

When I lived in CA, I was fighting a speeding ticket, and found out that it is illegal to issue a speeding ticket based on the time to travel between two points. So the tollway option that you listed here won't work in CA (Not sure about the other states, or if the law has changed since then). It made it nice for remote areas where the "Speed enforced by aircraft". They would have to catch you speeding in the aircraft, and then radio a car, and have the car catch you with radar or pace you.

Luckily, now I live in a large rural state, that only has 200 highway patrol officers for the entire state (1 officer for every 2,196 square miles if they each work an 8 hour shift every day). In my 50 mile one way commute, I go through 3 traffic signals (One turns off at night), and none of them have red light cameras.

So, there's no monitoring for me, but a whole lot of speeding :)

One way that pre-European cultures in America hunted buffalo (since they did not have horses or firearms) was to get the buffalo to start stampeding and drive them off a cliff. In that case, it was the ones at the front of the herd that died first.

http://lewisandclark.state.mt.us/sites.asp?IDNumbe r=25

Never were taught that in college, were you? Kind of breaks that fantasy story about how Native Americans respected nature and have an inherent moral superiority.

http://fwp.state.mt.us/hunting/records/bodysize.as px

1,102 lb grizzly taken down in montana .

In my opinion there are bigger ones out there too .

Peace,
Ex-MislTech

In case you're wondering who's in your neighborhood...

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Where's the (-1 Incorrect statement presented as absolute fact) mod button?

In Montana and Washington it is legal to exceed the speed limit to pass on a two lane road. Actually, Washington has some of the most sane traffic laws and enforcements I've seen-- I've actually seen somebody get pulled over while doing ~5mph below the speed limit in the left hand lane (on I-90 in Eastern Wa). The cars (including yours truly) that were blowing past him on the right (I was doing about two MPH over the speed limit) were ignorred by the WSP's. They'll also pull you over if you're slowing down more than 5 or 6 cars on a two lane. Not bad (especially when compared to the CHP, they'll blow past you by 90, and the motorcycle cops will scratch your mirrors while splitting lanes, but if they want to bust you at 5 over during rush hour and create a monster traffic jam that slows everybody down, they will).

Well, it's all relative. Missoula is the second largest city in Montana (Billings is the largest with just under 90k). Of course, MT is pretty sparse, with a total population of a little over 902k and a whopping 6.2 people/square mile. In other words, Missoula is large for MT, but small in an absolute sense . . .

Here's a PDF with Montana cities' populations and ranks.

I can't access the file, so here's a link to the .pdf, HB0457.pdf.

That's entirely false.

Speed doesn't kill. Dangerous driving does. The two aren't the same. Going 90mph in a C5 corvette won't get you a ticket in Montana. Doing 90mph in a minivan, will.

Montana has had a speed limit since 1999.

This actually makes me think of my grandfather's old farm. Don't mark me offtopic yet. Wait for me to tie it back in. Some of my grandfather's farm, as he explains it, was taken and given to a railroad company for a right-of-way. The rules were simple, if that rail line did not handle a certain capacity, then the land reverted to my grandfather's ownership--eminent domain. So, forty or fifty years later, once a quarter the rail company would drive a very small train, very, very slowly over nearly unusable tracks--just to keep it. Unfortunately, the rail company's stall tactics outlived my grandfather.

How does this tie in? Perhaps we are vainly trying to use an old system (copyright) to apply to a new medium (software). I agree that generations long copyrights (ala Disney) are invalid, but the rights should be of sufficient duration to prevent the media giants from outlasting an author's rights to his work. I mean, if I write the "Great American Novel," with a short copyright term (7 to 14 years), a corporation would just refuse publication until I lost rights--and then publish without having to grant royalties. After all, David Brin's The Postman was published in 1986 and the movie The Postman based on the book came out in 1997. If the copyrights were only seven years long--the original length, then he would not have had any say in the movie--or been able to profit. So, overly long "Disney" copyrights are bad for the public, and overly short ones are bad for the author. Still, this does not speak to my point on software and copyrights.

We seem to agree that when a company, or an owner of software, ceases to maintain said software (i.e., Abandonware), that this software should be released to the public domain. Thus, Windows 3.1 would be public domain simply because Microsoft has abandoned it--as would all the VIC-20 games in our current discusion. This does not fit into our copyright model--I doubt this fits anywhere in Intellectual Property law. However, as my early rail tie-in (pardon the pun) suggests, there is presidence elsewhere. So, I propose that software adopt a new model of Intellectual Eminent Domain.

This model should establish reasonable guidelines for when software is deemed abandoned by its original author. When the software is deemed suitably abandoned, then it becomes public domain. Perhaps age of software could reasonably be part of the criteria used, or perhaps a certain number of years since the software was abandoned or last publically supported. What should also be considered valid is when the software's author or company publically ceases to support that code--such as Microsoft and Windows 3.1.

I believe the product being made public, as opposed to allowing a different private party claim absolute ownership, is better for the public for prevents large software houses (e.g. Microsoft) from gobbling up all the abandoned software and then 'maintaining' it to prevent another from invoking eminent domain. It also allows abandonware sites to make available the software; and allows individuals and organizations the chance to maintain or improve the software. I suppose the question then would be, "at what point does maintenance/enhancement of abandoned code constitute a new product protected by IP rights?"

We're getting way OT here, but checking my version of the Constitution it looks like Amendment IV is a good candidate...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Section 10. Right of privacy. The right of individual privacy is essential to the well-being of a free society and shall not be infringed without the showing of a compelling state interest.

From http://www.mdt.state.mt.us/speed_limit:
Starting May 28, 1999, Montana has a posted speed limit - just like every other state.

Haven't been through Montana lately eh?
Other than that, I agree with you.

Right you are - the speed limit is 75 for cars on interstates in non-urban areas during daylight.

And it looks like it may have been federal funding that did it, although I'm not bothering to look into it in depth. One site claims that it was actually safer during the no limit time than it was after limits were imposed. Dunno.

While were doubtless not the only govenrment hiring, I know Montana's state government is hiring and would love to get smart experienced techs. We're about as different as you can get from California (you will have to enter state of montana in the job type field, I can't seem to find a way to get the URL to recognise any search terms). Understand that your pay will stink, but you can pick up a nice house for 150,000 or so, your commute will be 20 min tops, and I live both down town and a five minute walk from a place that you can see one house far on the horizon. If you do decide to move here, either don't admit you are from California, don't comment on the deal you are getting for your house, and don't tell anyone I told you to come up here. If you wanted more money try Boise, ID or one of the university towns in the west. If the example job is well below your skill level, as it sorta looks, I am sorry, no insults were intended, and a single guy will live like a king here on that salary range.

While were doubtless not the only govenrment hiring, I know Montana's state government is hiring and would love to get smart experienced techs. We're about as different as you can get from California (you will have to enter state of montana in the job type field, I can't seem to find a way to get the URL to recognise any search terms). Understand that your pay will stink, but you can pick up a nice house for 150,000 or so, your commute will be 20 min tops, and I live both down town and a five minute walk from a place that you can see one house far on the horizon. If you do decide to move here, either don't admit you are from California, don't comment on the deal you are getting for your house, and don't tell anyone I told you to come up here. If you wanted more money try Boise, ID or one of the university towns in the west. If the example job is well below your skill level, as it sorta looks, I am sorry, no insults were intended, and a single guy will live like a king here on that salary range.

goddammit, like this

Why?

Basically, If you get slammed you basically don't pay ANY charges for the slamming related changes, PLUS you, by law, don't pay one cent to the company who slammed you.

The great thing is that these companies usually take 2-3 months to send the first bill, and by then I've ended up with at least a couple months of free long distance.