Slashdot Mirror

Curious how they interpret genesis then. If the big bang theory is accurate, then a god simply cannot have created the universe. It all comes down to relativity: If the universe started as a single dimensionless point, then the gravity would have been so strong that time didn't exist. If time didn't exist, then there was no time for a god to create the universe.

I'm Jewish, not Catholic, but I had a rabbi who would teach about Genesis using it to teach moral lessons. For example, there are actually two "creation of man" stories. In one, man is made in the image of God. In another, he's formed from mud. My rabbi said that we should walk around balancing two contradictory attitudes: The world was created just for us and we're nothing but mud. If we can successfully remain in the center, we'll be good.

Going by this, I'd interpret the Bible (or Torah for my fellow Jews out there) figuratively, not literally. When it says "God did X", there's a lesson to be learned, not a literal telling of history.

Then again, there's also one of my favorite Isaac Asimov stories that covers this.

One of my favorite explanations actually comes from science fiction writer Isaac Asimov in the short story "How It Happened." Let's assume for a second that God really did tell Moses and Aaron what to write in the Bible, He would obviously need to give an allegorical account of what happened in the past and not a literal one. No human could write out a literal blow-by-blow history of the Universe and no human could ever read such an accounting. (Of course, my personal belief is that the Bible is a moral tale and not a historical tale. You are supposed to read it and think "people should act this way", not read it and think "women were really created by a rib surgically removed from the first man.")

There are plenty of people who are religious but don't take the bible literally. I actually happen to be one of them. My personal belief* is that the bible is an allegorical text meant to teach moral lessons, not to teach history. If God wanted to teach us history, Genesis 1:1 would have started "In the beginning, there was a Big Bang...." (It would also be a LOT longer to read ala "How It Happened" by Isaac Asimov.) If anything, I think religion is enhanced by science. Sure, you need to give up the "God magically poofed the world into existence 10,000 years ago" belief (then again, that should have gone away over a hundred years ago), but the "God of old" ruled over Earth and a sphere that essentially had stars painted on it. The "God of people who embrace science" rules over an unimaginably vast Universe.

* I think that all religion should stay as personal beliefs and I wouldn't think of trying to force someone else to follow my religious beliefs. So long as your religious beliefs don't hurt anyone else, I say go for it. I happen to be Jewish, but if you think Christ is the savior that's fine by me. If you follow Budda or Islam or Wicca or any other religion, I'm ok with it. I only take issue when some people - e.g. the Religious Right - think it is their religious duty to force me to follow their religious rules (to "save me").

Ideally one should show not only some of the great sci fi out there but also show sci fi's unique roles in literature.

Several people have pointed out Asimov's "The Last Question". It might also be informative to compare that with Asimov's "How it Happened" and at least one of C.S. Lewis's more religious Narnia novels ("The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe", "Voyage of the Dawn Treader", "The Last Battle", "The Magician's Nephew".)

The classic Star Trek episode "Let That be Your Last Battlefield" is an opportunity to discuss sci fi as social commentary. If you prefer the written word, you can use "Fahrenheit 451" or even "The Running Man".

Verne's "From the Earth to the Moon" is great for sci fi as inspiration.

Card's "Ender's Game" has a great description of something very similar to modern web forums. Great for sci fi as prediction. [Of course, by then, Usenet existed for real.]

Asimov's "The Feeling of Power" (or any of a number of Asimov's multivac stories) is great to demonstrate that sometimes, even sci fi authors fail to imagine aspects of the future, i.e. the miniaturization and cheapness of computers.

In general, for each sci fi item, I would ask not just "why is this great sci fi?" but also "Why couldn't this be mainstream fiction?"

http://www.sumware.com/creation.html My pleasure.

Or, perhaps, the cost of papyrus was just too high: http://www.sumware.com/creation.html

Doesn't science state that the Earth's rate of rotation had changed over time? For that matter, were things rotating at the big bang? Day One could very well be the big bang up to the creation of the Earth, that's 9 billion years. During that time there was light, but no darkness on the matter that would become the Earth, in fact, the heavier elements were synthesized inside stars (you can't get much brighter than _inside_ a star).

The only problem that I have with Genesis is that the Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day. There may be a scientific explanation for that or it may be an error, I really don't know. Just as science is not infallable, nor do I think the Torah to be. You might want to read Asimov's How it happened.

Agreed 100%. I am not Muslim, but I find the Creation as told in the Old Testament and the Big Bang Theory to be in (almost) total agreement. Here is Asimov's take on how it happened:
http://www.sumware.com/creation.html

For those who are interested, Google came up with this link to the short.

"Suppose you describe one million years of events to each roll of papyrus. That means you'll have to fill fifteen thousand rolls. You'll have to talk long enough to fill them and you know that you begin to stammer after a while. I'll have to write enough to fill them and my fingers will fall off. And even if we can afford all that papyrus and you have the voice and I have the strength, who's going to copy it? We've got to have a guarantee of a hundred copies before we can publish and without that where will we get royalties from?"

No argument with me. St. Jerome was divinely inspired when he collated the Vulgate Bible, but even much of that had already been put together by a group of Nuns in the Holy Land (forgive me if I don't look up the reference). But I don't think the divine inspiration was on the facts/history, but on the way it makes you think. The details people argue about are usually not important.

The thing that most people get is that the Bible is not designed to be a literal work. It has to function at way too many levels for that to pan out. It has way too much symbolism in it. This is why people study the thing, not just read it: It is made to make you think. While I don't think it has spiritual errors, I don't trust it for facts either. History and Theology (or Philosophy) are different beasties.

I realized that I'm going off on a tangent, but was the Earth made in seven days? Who cares? There were phases and God was the motivator behind them. Asking if he was done in a week is missing the forest because too many trees are in the way. I've always liked Azimov's creation story http://www.sumware.com/creation.html.

If you look at the original Hebrew, the word translated "day" in Genesis has the same meaning as if I said "In my fathers day, automobile fuel was 35 cents a gallon". It refers to a time period. The references to "morning" and "evening" are the same. If this was not the case, there would be no way to count the days until the 3rd "day", since thats when the sun and moon became visable on the surface of the earth.

The earth is several billion years old. The universe is much older. Those who think that the bible claims the earth was created in 6 literal days simply have not done enough research on the matter.

And latter on, the same word is used to mean "day", as in the seventh day is the Lord's day, and you will honor the sabbath.
If the bible is God's word, he's got a twisted sense of humour, using irony like that...

BTW, Asimov said it better than you ;-)

I'm pretty sure it was Asimov who wrote a short story, based on Moses and Aaron, where Moses wanted to write the fifteen billion year history of the Universe, but Aaron talked him into compressing it into seven days as they couldn't afford that much papyrus.

I just had to look that up after having a chuckle at the thought, and this is what I found with Google after searching for "Asimov Moses Aaron" (minus the quotes).