Slashdot Mirror


What Belongs In a High School Sci-Fi/Fantasy Lit Class?

flogger writes "I have been asked to help develop a literature course for Science Fiction and Fantasy literature. What do you consider to be appropriate selections of short stories and novels in these genres for high school students of all ability levels? I'd also like to know why you choose certain selections. This class will be 'regular' class and not a class for 'flunkies' to earn a credit by sitting docile and listening to lectures. The following is a course description that I have been given as a guideline. This description can change. Any ideas? 'In this Junior/Senior level course, students will focus on the genres of Science Fiction and Fantasy. Students will survey the histories of these genres and recognize how world events have been reflected onto other worlds. From the early formation of the genre, with Verne, and the classics of Clarke, Tolkien, Bradbury, and LeGuin, to the contemporary works of Card, Jordan, and Vinge, the genres have been about portraying humanity in possible scenarios. These works have mirrored events throughout the troubled situations of our history and provided optimistic outcomes and horrifying predictions. Through this course, students will utilize analytical skills and reading strategies to evaluate our current situation and project into the literature of different worlds while sharing and learning of an author's insight. Possible areas of interest will be topics of the environment, energy conservation, war, social issues, and others. '"

1,021 comments

  1. Where was this class for me? by marbike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You might consider that not only does the world around us inform the fiction that is written (consider Heinlein's social and political commentary in Starship Troopers) but that also Science Fiction informs our own world (see how innovation is sparked by what SciFi has given us. Also, the genres can be used to teach us about the past (Piers Anthony's Steppe) or give us a glimpse into the far future (Niven's Ringworld). There is quite a lot of SciFi in our daily lives, but our world is certainly present in our SciFi.

    I want to know where this class was $Big_Num years ago. I would have jumped at the chance to participate in such a class.

    --
    it is better to light a flame thrower than curse the darkness. -Terry Pratchett Men at Arms
    1. Re:Where was this class for me? by madhurms · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Try Hitchhiker's guide to galaxy. Great read.

    2. Re:Where was this class for me? by marbike · · Score: 1

      And possibly a good example of how literature can inform the real world. Wikipedia http://www.wikipedia.org/ and H2G2 http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2 are both very similar to the notional Guide in HHGTTG.

      --
      it is better to light a flame thrower than curse the darkness. -Terry Pratchett Men at Arms
    3. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't articulate how much I agree. I would have killed for a class like this when I was in highschool. A literature class I *care* about?! Perish the thought.

    4. Re:Where was this class for me? by philipmather · · Score: 0, Troll

      I'm very sorry but you'll have to turn in your geek card at the desk on your way out.
      You've also invalidated any opinion you hold on this matter.

      IT'S SPELT PRATCHETT YOU IDIOT! WITH ANOTHER "T"!

      Stand in the corner and put this conical hat on.

      And I don't know what the rest of you are sniggering at, I don't see any of you mentioning Pratchett! Eh, eh? Ruddy obvious answer, the man's a frick'in genius.

      --
      Regards, Phil
    5. Re:Where was this class for me? by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And decidedly a good example of entertainment literature that doesn't belong in a lit class.

    6. Re:Where was this class for me? by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am quite fond of Roger Zelazny's short story "The Game of Blood and Dust". It didn't resonate at all with my daughter, who never really lived under the threat of nuclear annihilation. It's included in _The_Last_Defender_of_Camelot_, and only 5 pages long.

    7. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Your post is invalid because you didn't close all of your parentheses.

    8. Re:Where was this class for me? by infinite9 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I actually took a sci-fi and fantasy class in my high school back in 1988. We read starship troopers, the hobbit, lord of the rings (we had to pick one of the three), 2001, and some books of our choosing. I chose soylent green iirc. We watched a few sci-fi movies. The teacher did an in-class analysis of the complexity of the lights and buttons of darth vader's suit as he progressed through 4, 5, and 6. We did a few book reports and some art projects. I did a poster of the horses in the river that did in the ring wraiths. It was one of the few brights spots of my high school experience. The teacher was awesome.

      --
      Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
    9. Re:Where was this class for me? by fireball84513 · · Score: 1

      as i was taught, all fiction was rooted with the immature reader in mind to make an escape but not for that sole purpose. entertainment in a lot of ways does a lot to inform and get people to think. it certainly gets people to actually care anyway. why do you think the movie industry makes movies that have meaning or a message behind them? wall-e is a good example of an entertaining film, yet it teaches us the consequences of having everything handed to us and what could happen. entertaining sci-fi yet informative and thought provoking.

      --
      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
    10. Re:Where was this class for me? by marbike · · Score: 1

      Ya know, that's been my sig here for years and I failed to notice it. Thanks for pointing it out.

      --
      it is better to light a flame thrower than curse the darkness. -Terry Pratchett Men at Arms
    11. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I want to know where this class was $Big_Num years ago."
      Georgia Tech, English elective taught back when by Dr. Foote. I took the class in 1984 so the reading list was all distopias (1984, The Sheep Look Up, Clockwork Orange, The World Inside, . . . .) Hopefully they're still teaching it as an elective.

    12. Re:Where was this class for me? by PDX · · Score: 1

      I would rather they learned civics rather than study Vogon Poetry.

    13. Re:Where was this class for me? by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why would they leave out Card and Heinlein if their goal was liberal indoctrination? The philosophy Starship Troopers is so easy to destroy the average middle schooler could do it. And practically every novel Card has ever written contains a sympathetic gay character who is persecuted, and yet, is content with that persecution. You could write a dissertation on that man's self-hating closet conservatism.

    14. Re:Where was this class for me? by aleatory_story · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Try Hitchhiker's guide to galaxy. Great read.

      Kurt Vonnegut's Sirens of Titan (which was a big influence to Adams' HG2G) would be a much better read for a lit class. It's a book of pure genius and there's as much insight into the human condition as there is humor. There is also a great Audiobook for this floating around for anyone too lazy to flip pages :)

      --
      Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this: that you are dreadfully like other people. - James Russell Lowell
    15. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the summary:

      Through this course, students will utilize analytical skills and reading strategies

      This guy is supposed to be a teacher. Why does he have to sound like a fucking management "science" wonk. Does he have to say "utilize" instead of simply "use"? What exactly does "utilize" add to "use", other than adding two presumably majestic-sounding syllables?Is it supposed to help collect grant money? Does he have to sound like a pompous twit? Or is he just a dumbass?

    16. Re:Where was this class for me? by nomadic · · Score: 1

      I chose soylent green iirc.

      I think you mean Make Room! Make Room! Good book.

    17. Re:Where was this class for me? by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      Don't forget Philip K. Dick and Stanislaw Lem!

    18. Re:Where was this class for me? by kfort · · Score: 1

      I just finished reading Ringworld last night and I wasn't very impressed. The characters seemed shallow and underdeveloped. Some of the ideas are interesting but most of the technology is completely implausible and justified with a hand-wave. From what I've read some of the problems he attempts to explain in the sequels but I don't feel encouraged to read them.

      I really liked The Mote in God's Eye, so maybe I will read some CoDominium novels instead of branching into Known Space. I would be interested to hear what people like so much about Ringworld and why it won so many awards.

    19. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      consider Heinlein's social and political commentary in Starship Troopers

      Haldemans The Forever War could be fitting as well as a commentary about the Vietnam war and social issues. It will get them talking, I'd bet.

    20. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually Wikipedia more resembles Asimov's Encyclopedia Galactica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopedia_Galactica ) from the Foundation series.

    21. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The big problem here is that SF has several potential objectives.

      One is to comment/explore the human condition or on a particular general issue of morality. SF is often a good medium for this, since one can often examine the issues in forms that cannot be encountered in the present world, or might be physically imposible in the real world, by hypothosizing a specific peice of technology.

      Another is to pre-explore possible future technologies, and see just what the implications are, what the benefits and pitfalls could be, and any technology specific ethical issues. (Ethics of cloning has been very popular here).

      There are several other possible objectives, including of course just plain entertainment.

      However, Idiots keep conflating science fiction and fantasy. They are quite different. Science fantasy should be based fairly rigidly on the real laws of science, although in a few cases deliberately ignoring or changing a small number of them.

      Fantasy on the other hand generally throws away the laws of science nearly completely, allowing just about anything, although quite frequently with a grounding in mythology, including magic, wizards, werewolves, and other mythical concepts. There is rarely any evidence of a boundary on what is possible, although authors generally do a decent job of preventing things from getting too implausible.

      Now, may authors will write both Science Fiction and fantasy. I have no idea why, but it is true. Some will even mix the two in a single book, such as Frank Herbet's Dune, which is a fantasy taking place in SF style future universe.

      When people say Science Fiction/Fantasy, they are probably really meaning to say Speculative Fiction (despite Heinlein's definition, Fantasy is most certainly a form of speculative fiction), as opposed to Historical Fiction, or Realistic Fiction (a term almost never used outside of grade-school education, but in which the vast majority of fictional works lie. Most Romance, Detective, Thriller, Mystery, Crime, Murder, and Political Fiction works fall clearly into this category, since the events described could really happen, albeit often quite improbable.).

    22. Re:Where was this class for me? by bocaJWho · · Score: 1

      One book that has been on my to-read list for a while now is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_WarThe Forever War. I recently finished Starship Troopers again, and I thought that I'd go with a military novel on the opposite end of the spectrum. Regarding the class, I thought that it might make a good counterpoint to Starship Troopers (although like I said, I haven't read it yet) and could prompt some good class discussion and cross referencing. Another Heinlein book which deserves attention is The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Not sure if its the right length for your class, but it's a gripping read and I think Heinlein's best work. Also, I'll shout out perhaps my favorite book - Snow Crash. If I were looking for a reason to justify puting it in a class, I would say its an archetype of the distopian libertarian future, but the truth is its just a really fun read.

    23. Re:Where was this class for me? by Gerzel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Philip K. Dick - Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep

      I'd also recommend reading through some anthologies you like and looking for good short stories. If I were running the class I'd go with (depending on time) two or three good novel length selections and fill the rest in with short stories from a variety of authors. At that level I'd rather get them exposed to a variety rather than focusing on a narrower selection. Show them the different styles and genres and the different colors of sci-fi fantasy.

      I'd shy away from LOTR. They already know it pretty much and its long.

      Also I'd look for local authors, especially those still alive, and show off some of their work. Also if you can ask them if they might be willing to speak. Putting someone local or from a similar background as the students as a writer might also help them identify better with the medium and they may be much more interested in it if they think they might just be able to do it someday.

      Finally hit the magazine rack for articles short stories and such. Analog and others may well offer some very good starting points. Also they'd help show the kids that it is an on-going process not some musty cannon of work.

    24. Re:Where was this class for me? by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Problem is most parents freak out. I was in an advanced Lit class and was introduced to Heinlein, Vonnegut, niven, EE Smith, and Ben Bova as writers and the sex scenes and outright violence in some of the books would have the moronic prude parents today suing everyone in sight for every reason. Hell reading a clockwork orange today in a high school would get most teachers fired.

      I really feel bad for teachers today. They have to basically give high school kids nursery rhymes instead of exposing them to real writers gritty stories that make the kids want to read with a passion.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    25. Re:Where was this class for me? by fermion · · Score: 1
      This is pretty much what I was thinking, then I though the books hardly matter. In such a class, I would hope a wide variety of books would be exploited. I know that for some part of the course standard books must be chosen, so the class can discuss and the teacher can model what is expects. But after this is time, many lit courses just become indoctrination to the cannon of literature, which has it place but often just makes students bored.

      The one place where the cannon should not exist is popular fiction. There is just too much of, all of rather equal quality, little of it stands well to the test of time. Even in what many would be considered in the Cannon of Science Fiction, books like Stranger in a Strange Land and the Gateway trilogy, and kindren are absent from so many lists. For sheer literary magnitude, we have Kim Stanley Robinson.

      If I were teaching such a class, I hope I would have the courage to let the student read what they wanted and analyze for whatever social merits of commentary it might have. Sure, some might go through the entire Stainless Steel Rat series, but if such helped them reflect on various ethical systems, the was not the ends met? I would think so.

      Such courses, though, are invariably about setting a community standard about what is a good book or a bad back. This is good literature, this is not. I would at least hope that such a course would include stories from the pulp magazines. Such stories show that writing, and the development of an art form, is a process. Many people honed their skills at a penny per word.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    26. Re:Where was this class for me? by aywwts4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Adams changed my world view in High-School. Fostered my fascination with Evolution and converted me from agnostic to strong atheism and made me analyze the world in new and interesting ways, His insight is perfect for (some) high school kids to read.

      Sadly his humor is largely lost on kids who don't do much critical thinking, I have seen people gloss right over some of the absolute funniest lines in the books without stopping for a second. Many people look for humor in the events of a book, not the words of the book. Douglas' funniest bits were sneaked into very minor bits of exposition, not critical plot points. "The spaceships hung in the air just like bricks don't." The rest of his humor comes from knowing the proper way to deliver his lines, largely requiring at least some exposure to Monty python or other British comedy to know how to read 'Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.' Read the wrong way the humor is lost.

      --
      Web Developers: Celebrate to our roots! Animated Gifs and Tiled Backgrounds, dont let our history die!
    27. Re:Where was this class for me? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Vogon Poetry is the new civics for the 21st century.

    28. Re:Where was this class for me? by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 1

      I took Science Fiction my senior year of High School, just because I was burned out on honor courses and didn't particularly want to take AP English.

      I don't remember a lot about the class, but we did read Kurt Vonnegut's Sirens of Titan and, lo these several decades later, I still remember the phrase "chronosynclastic infundibulum". But so as not to spoil it, I will not say what it is.

      I think the rest may have been other short story classics, which I haven't read in years, but do remember off the top of my head, so they must be "literature"; stuff like Flowers for Algernon, The Lottery, A Sound of Thunder, etc.

      I don't remember much from high school, but those stories stuck with me. Good luck.

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    29. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ender's game !

    30. Re:Where was this class for me? by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      All schools are. What was your point?

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    31. Re:Where was this class for me? by NickFortune · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's also the converse point to consider. In Footfall (I think) Niven and Pournelle make the point (a little self indulgently, maybe) that if politicians are not supposed to plan beyond their term of office, then the only people making serious long term contingency plans are SF writers. I think there's a grain of truth in there; who else has the time and inclination to consider potential scientific breakthroughs, and then explore their social as well as well as technological implications.

      I don't think I'd recommend Footfall: It's a long book and there are going to be limits on how much you can expect your students to read. Still, Niven's Flash Crowd is a fine example of this type of story, considering the ways in which a cheap public teleportation system would change society.

      It'd be nice to have a symmetrical recommendation for fantasy, but I don't think it really lends itself to that sort of exploration. Fantasy, I sometimes think is best when it looks backwards and inwards into the landscape of myth and the collective unconscious. Robert Holdstock's Mythago Wood would probably be the best example of that, but again it's probably a lot of book to cover. Something from Gaiman's Sandman comics might work - A Dream Of A Thousand Cats, for example.

      Just some thoughts.

      --
      Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
    32. Re:Where was this class for me? by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

      Because if it doesn't bore the hell out of you, it sure can't be called literature, eh?

      Here, read this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrueArtIsIncomprehensible

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    33. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Try Hitchhiker's guide to galaxy. Great read.

      HHGTG is fluff...hilarious, thoroughly entertaining fluff, but it doesn't really belong in a Sci-Fi lit class.

      "Serious" sci-fi typically casts a real-world, modern humanistic issue against a backdrop that lets us examine it without our preexisting sentiments getting in the way. Racism, censorship, homophobia, totalitarianism, anarchy, genocide, etc...these are really hard things to discuss with a group of high-school kids. Let them discover that the Sci-Fi is not about the future...it's about the present and the past, and the genre's classics punch much harder than most other forms of literature.

      If all you have done by the end of the year is get half the students able to speak about these things through the context of the stories and really discuss them, you have done an absolutely spectacular job.

    34. Re:Where was this class for me? by droopycom · · Score: 1

      I'm curious though, do you feel like you learned anything ? Or was it just fun and interesting and made it a welcome break compared to the rest of your high school experience ?

      I mostly read scifi and/or fantasy because I find it entertaining and interesting, not really to learn the political, sociological or philosophical lessons that might result...

      I enjoyed King and Stephenson as much as Bradury or Vonnegut...

    35. Re:Where was this class for me? by thomst · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I think a list of seminal books, rather than specific authors, is the way to go. (Heck, you could teach an entire class on Heinlein alone!) Mine would definitely include:

      The Stars My Destination, by Alfred Bester. Perhaps Bester's best-known story (Bester won the very first Hugo award for best science fiction novel with The Demolished Man - which is a great exploration of a telepathic society cast as a detective story - but Stars is a short novel, which would allow you to fit more works into the time allotted), it's a story of one man's thirst for revenge (always a popular theme with teenagers) in a society where interplanetary travel is commonplace and most normal people have learned to teleport. The fact that the action takes place across this society's class structure, and that it anticipates (among other phenomena) flash mobs, excellently illustrates the science-fictional task of worldbuilding at its highest level.

      The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, by Robert A. Heinlein. Although less popular than the author's Stranger in a Strange Land, it won - and deserved - the Hugo for Best Novel. More importantly, Heinlein's infamous didacticism is dialed back a good ways from the wildly-self-indulgent Stranger, and the story - of a lunar penal colony (most of the residents of which are prisoners only of irreversible gravity-mediated physiological changes) which fights a war for political independence from Earth - was the first SF novel to deal with low-gravity disability, the first that I know of to introduce a self-aware computer character that felt in any way "real", the first to introduce railgun bombardment from space as a terror weapon, and one of the first to explore (in Heinlein's holographic fashion) the possible impact on marriage customs of a society where the male-to-female ratio is heavily lopsided.

      Lord of Light, by Roger Zelazny. Although best known for his less-ambitious Amber series, this was Zelazny's magnum opus. Set on a planet colonized centuries before, it tells the story of the struggle between Buddhism and Hinduism - except that the Hindu gods are the officers of the original colony ship, the Buddha is a rebel from their ranks who is determined to destroy the caste system over which they rule, and physical reincarnation is a reward doled out by the "gods" via cloning and mind-transfer technology. Beautifully-written (as you might expect from an English major with a degree in comparative mythology), it's also a riveting adventure story, with a complex protagonist fighting to overthrow an authoritarian society ruled by his oldest friends and associates, Lord of Light is perhaps the best melding of science fiction and fantasy ever written. It deservedly won both the Hugo (given by the fan community) and the Nebula (bestowed by the science fiction writers association) awards for best novel.

      The Adolescence of P1, by Thomas Ryan. Other than Mistress, this was the first SF novel to explore the idea of a self-aware computer consciousness arising from what today we would call a self-modifying Internet worm. It confines itself to that theme, rather than engaging in a major world-building exercise. Because it is set in the "present day" 1980's, it would allow you to introduce the idea that science fiction themes can be set in familiar, rather than exotic surroundings without in any way lessening their entertainment value or the relevance and weight of their themes.

      The Shockwave Rider, by John Brunner. Set in a highly-mobile future society that's dependent on networked computers for day-to-day existence - a society that bears a striking resemblance to our own - Rider is one of the best examples of dead-on prognosticating in SF. It's also a breathless adventure, which pits the whiz-kid hacker protagonist against the evil CIA that's been determined to exploit him and orphans like him since his childhood. Again, as in Ryan's Adolescence, Brunner includes an emergent computer intelligence given birth by the protagonist's experiments with self-modifying code, but the focus here i

      --
      Check out my novel.
    36. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      the cannon of literature

      canon!

    37. Re:Where was this class for me? by orangesquid · · Score: 1

      ("Utilize" has a more specific meaning than "use". "Use" means you're just working with something, for better or worse; "utilize" means you're making practical or profitable use of something. Arguably, you could say that any good teacher-student relationship implies that any skill a student uses for the goals of the course is put to *good* use, so "utilize" would be unnecessary complexity; but, maybe the submitter was trying to draw attention to the idea that this wasn't simply a read-stories-for-fun class. True, the usage is a little redundant, still, as using a skill or a strategy implies putting it to good use, unless the usage is implicitly or explicitly stated as bad. I realize "utilize" is drastically overused. Sorry if I'm giving the submitter the benefit of the doubt, but, hey... if you get to nitpick, I get to nitpick, too!)

      I've seen some posts suggesting particular authors or stories, and an excellent post suggesting that maybe analyzing the classification of the material would offer more insight and useful long-term experience.
      On the first item, please find a couple good short stories by Asimov; he shouldn't be overlooked. On the second item, a detailed literary analysis could encapsulate several goals, and could be done over the length of the course in short segments.
      One of my high school literature teachers made us write a literary analysis of a novel with many, many short segments (some sharing no overlap). I found that this gave me a lot of insight into the work of fiction I chose (Philip K. Dick's 'A Scanner Darkly'), in terms of both extrinsic nature of my perception and the deconstruction of the novel's writing, and aspects of the story-world both internal and external to the words on the pages.

      For the literary analysis, maybe the students should be prepped within the first few days for their project, and being given the suggestion of thinking carefully about how the project would pan out for several books of their choosing. After a week's thought, they could narrow the books down to ones that would be good to analyze (not necessarily their all-time-favorites, make that clear), and you could review the books and recommend which one of their final groups of choices seemed the best to analyze. This way, the student doesn't get stuck with a crappy (though perhaps still fun) fictional work when trying to do analysis.
      To discourage putting things off to the last minute, the project would not need to be a term paper but rather just a coherent study of the book, done in sections. Give the students a few weeks to read the books carefully, after familiarizing them with the types of things they'll need to be watching for. Then, the analysis can be done in stages, presenting the goals of each stage in detail after the last stage has been turned in.
      You'd want to avoid long works, since they may need to re-read large parts of the book for each stage. Each stage can also include a paragraph on how that part of the analysis relates to the theme of the course in terms of the book and in terms of the type of analysis itself.

      Doing a detailed literary analysis in high school changed the way I read books forever. I have much more appreciation for well-written literature now.

      --
      --TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
    38. Re:Where was this class for me? by jvin248 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Influential books that had an impact on me during the High School years, and would have been great in such a class. You won't be able to cover very many books, but you should at least get these in there:

      Foundation
      Ring World
      Lord Foul's Bane
      Ender's Game
      A Canticle for Leibowitz
      The Hobbit (no, not LOTR)
      The Sleeping Dragon


      A lot of the others are covered in political or regular english courses (animal farm, 1984, F 451, etc), or really were just entertaining reads (Princess of Mars, Conan, Hitchhikers Guide, Xanth, etc).

    39. Re:Where was this class for me? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Your Wall-e example is pretty poor. It's pretty shallow entertainment, the moral is fairly shallow as well, in addition to being a moral, which is itself a shallow literary tool.

      A lot of the time, the author really did intend to write just an adventure novel (The Lord of the Flies...) but more profound themes just kind of popped up completely by accident.

      Wall*E was just an Aesop Hammer designed to feed the flames of class envy and promote progressivism.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    40. Re:Where was this class for me? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      I also was going to recommend Heinlein and Niven. The Ringworld series is classic, but I think Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land is a great commentary on Religion, while The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is better social and political commentary than Starship Trooper (although I concur with Heinlein's idea of requiring service for full citizenship).

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    41. Re:Where was this class for me? by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 1

      Ah, Niven's "Flash Crowd"...

      Niven used teleportation, but the problem, and the solution he came up with in the story, have a counterpart in the real world.

      At a con where Niven was the GoH, a phone company employee was in the audience, and said that when there's a disaster, phone lines often get jammed. The phone company's policy is, when when this happens, to start blocking incoming calls and allow only outgoing. The theory is to make it easier for people inside the affected area to contact someone outside; people calling from outside aren't necessarily going to be able to contact who they're worried about in the affected area, and a lot of them are likely voyeurs who don't have any real business calling in and taking up a connection that needs to be available for someone to find out the status of family members.

      SF, at its best, does things like this. It requires an author who actually things about problems and how to solve them.

      I haven't kept up with what academia has done with these sorts of courses in the 30-odd years since I was in school, but back then, when there was such a course, the selections were all of a particular type... gloomy, technophobic, pessimistic, depressing ... and often written with no concern for plausible science. Heinlein, Niven, Asimov, Poul Anderson, Gordon Dickson... all these writers were UnPersons, as far as the academic crowd of the day was concerned.

      So, in spite of my initial "A course on SF? Cool!" enthusiasm, after looking at the reading list, I left, brushing the dust from my feet as I went.

    42. Re:Where was this class for me? by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      Zelazny is one of my favorite authors, and I think should be included in such a course. I rather liked For a Breath I Tarry. It's an obvious retelling of Faust, set in a distant post-holocaust future. It may perhaps not be worthy of much study, but it's a fun little story. Right before it is the better version of Damnation Alley, another story set in a post-holocaust world. Not that that story is particularly noteworthy, just that there were so many post-holocaust stories written in those days.

      Then there's This Immortal, yet another story in a post-holocaust setting. I particularly enjoyed two of the scenes from This Immortal-- first the part where the protagonist shows off his disassembly of the Great Pyramid and, after the appropriate reactions of shock and anger, how he pokes his audience in the eye with a further revelation that he's filming the entire operation for purposes of making a comic film about how the pyramids might have been built. I won't spoil the other scene, but it concerns even more painful revelations while they are waiting to be eaten by the cannibals who've captured them.

      Zelazny's 2nd Amber series, about a member of the family who is a somewhat nerdy computer enthusiast, doesn't get much respect. But I felt Zelazny did a good job of portraying a geek who is more interested in the technical than the political. However the protagonist is of course thrust right into the center of politics, complete with another Faustian choice. He doesn't figure out why he got picked on, for a job others would kill for but which he does not want. I think I figured that part out. But there's more in there. The protagonist is poor at assessing people, trusting people he should not and distrusting those he should trust, a nerd-like blend of gullibility and suspicion, and quite a bit of this becomes self-fulfilling.

      On the geek theme, Yama in Lord of Light is another geeky character who paid more attention to technical issues than people. If anyone knows why Sugata opposed Yama, I'd like to hear about it. I think Sugata meant for Yama to figure out something (but what?) and live on, instead Yama regretfully killed him even though it wasn't necessary. It's as if it didn't occur to Yama that merely defeating and binding Sugata would have sufficed. Or perhaps Yama was trying to please his intended by killing one who had abandoned his service to her, or as geeks are wont to do was so caught up in his role as "Deathgod" that he unthinkingly acted the part. The questions seem like good fodder for a book report.

      Possibly the most difficult to understand of Zelazny's works is Eye of Cat, which may mean it's a good one to study.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    43. Re:Where was this class for me? by Holmwood · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The philosophy [of] Starship Troopers is so easy to destroy?

      Really?

      Two of the tenets of that book were (a) all volunteer armed forces; (b) everyone who volunteered for combat service, and served, got to vote. No exceptions.

      You'll note the protagonist of that novel was Hispanic, and the protagonist of Tunnel in the Sky was black. Not exactly common for the 1950's.

      He wrote Starship Troopers in 1959, in an age prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, where many black veterans had been routinely deprived of the vote in the south. He wrote some years before the disaster of the Vietnam War where kids were drafted to serve and die in a decidedly non-volunteer force.

      It might be easy to look back today and decry Heinlein's work, but I'm not so sure the philosophy his characters articulate is so "easy to destroy" as you think it is.

      Unless of course one is all about racism and conscription. In which case, carry on.

      -Holmwood

    44. Re:Where was this class for me? by StrategicIrony · · Score: 1

      You sound absolutely desperate to look for "indoctrination conspiracy" that you can't see past your own nose.

      Nothing else to say.

    45. Re:Where was this class for me? by Samgilljoy · · Score: 1

      I had a SciFi reading class in my Sophmore Year of HS back in the 80's. Haven't thought about how fortunate I was until now. Of course, my HS was lousy overall, but we got to read Science Fiction and finish the course by watching Blade Runner. I even got to host the movie, seeing as I'd watched it 30 times by then.

      I probably shouldn't mention that the girl who sat next to me had...well...it was a stimulating class in many respects.

    46. Re:Where was this class for me? by clintp · · Score: 1

      The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a great conversation book for students, it tends to come at economic problems from a perspective that many of them haven't seen: the economics of scarcity. TANSTAAFL would be a good counter-counter-cultural notion for the Obama generation. As much as I like Stranger, I think TMiaHM is much more useful.

      If you're going to approach this as an evolving genre, then Wells and Verne. The list needs Asimov as required reading even if it's a few short stories. The notion of the "Three Laws" in an age when people expected to be replaced by (and feared) the "electronic brain" is a powerful one. An early working galaxy-wide empire need to be explored too.

      Niven and Pournelle's "hard" SF tend to be well thought out and self-consistent -- a problem a lot of writers have. The annoyances surrounding Ringworld were simply because it was so *close* to being right. At least he fixed the shortcomings in the sequels.

      --
      Get off my lawn.
    47. Re:Where was this class for me? by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      I have to agree with you. I like known space works, but MiGE &c, FootFall, Lucifer's Hammer, struck me as more imaginative/better works.

      I always saw MiGE ( and footfall ) as a response of sorts to the notion "Why would aliens come to Humanity/Earth, why would there be conflict, they could get everything they wanted in the outer parts of the solar system/ elsewhere without a fight". Both books motivate why they might.

      My surprise is that no one has mentioned Dune &c.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    48. Re:Where was this class for me? by RasputinAXP · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, the protagonist of the book (Juan Rico) was Filipino, as noted at the very end where he mentions they speak Tagalog at home.

      (Score: -1, Pedantic)

    49. Re:Where was this class for me? by Glyphn · · Score: 1

      Problem is most parents freak out. I was in an advanced Lit class and was introduced to Heinlein, Vonnegut, niven, EE Smith, and Ben Bova as writers and the sex scenes and outright violence in some of the books would have the moronic prude parents today suing everyone in sight for every reason.

      You have me scratching my head here. I'll play the prude parent here for a moment (because I am one in Real Life), but if you are reading these authors for their sex scenes then you missed the boat. Heinlein (e.g.) keeps coming back to sexual topics, but if you are reading from his most influential works you aren't going to find much that is explicit. And Doc Smith? Maybe I just read the wrong books ...

      Violence of course is another thing, but the Christian Conservatives I assume you are alluding to do not get worked up over violence the way they do about explicit sex. (If they did, their Bibles would be significantly shorter.)

      Hell reading a clockwork orange today in a high school would get most teachers fired.

      I really feel bad for teachers today. They have to basically give high school kids nursery rhymes instead of exposing them to real writers gritty stories that make the kids want to read with a passion.

      Hah, Nursery rhymes would hardly cut it. I can just see a teacher trying to read "Ding, Dong, Bell" to a class and try to get around the tittering.

      Anyway, taking a shot at "moronic prudes" puts you in fine company on slashdot, but I can't help but be amused from my vantage point. Yes, prudes do get worked up over class room material, but the reasons why they complain are seldom simple. E.g., when I complained about my high school daughter watching Scrubs and Casino Royal in school, it wasn't about the material per se but because she was watching them in English (no subtitles, nothing) in Spanish class. You see, they took two weeks off because the teacher couldn't bring herself to put together a lesson plan. I'm sure I'll go down in the school history as just another local religious nut job though.

      Or, another example: I just finished reading to my youngest son. The language was occasionally vulgar so I balderized as I read. The book:A Night in the Lonesome October, one of my halloween favorites by Zelazny.

      Anyway, pigeon-hole us as you will, but the prudes hardly have a monopoly on idiocy and closed-mindedness. Just something to bear in mind as you wind back to huck that stone. You may be guilty of, if nothing else, unintentional irony.

    50. Re:Where was this class for me? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      There is plenty of literature which isn't boring. Hitchhiker's Guide is a fun read and clever at spots, and I'll admit that it is very successful at using humor to present an absurdist universe. This is, however, basically the only thing it's notable for and its hardly unique there. Hitchhiker's is something to enjoy and then maybe go back and appreciate, once you've read some real literature. Nothing wrong with that.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    51. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I took an elective course in Science Fiction at Rutgers 30 or so years ago. I still have two of the books from that class, A Canticle For Leibowitz by Walter Miller and Stand On Zanzibar by John Brunner. Actually, I'm on my second copy of Brunner's masterwork.
      Brunner seems to be two separate authors. One wrote run of the mill science fiction. The other wrote books that broke new literary ground in style and foreshadowed much of the current trends and in media and communication. Something to consider if you want to exhibit sci-fi as literature and not just entertainment for geeks. Consider Stand On Zanzibar or A Jagged Orbit for your class. They will give you much to discuss with your students.

    52. Re:Where was this class for me? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      Sadly his humor is largely lost on kids who don't do much critical thinking

      I think you accidentally hit on the point OP was making here. People don't have to get Hitchhiker's, because it can be read on a lighter level. It's great that you were able to get it immediately, but those who didn't (and note, this doesn't necessarily mean anything about their intelligence; just their temperament) have a much better chance after reading Camus and Kafka (and these are worth reading anyway!).

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    53. Re:Where was this class for me? by winwar · · Score: 1

      "I mostly read scifi and/or fantasy because I find it entertaining and interesting, not really to learn the political, sociological or philosophical lessons that might result.."

      And reading the "classics" gets you this how? If you find the book boring, you aren't going to learn much. I read a lot of highly rated books in school that were incredibly boring and were probably OVER analyzed in class. More PhD's done on a piece of work equals greater minutiae (essentially mental masturbation) and less valuable insights....

    54. Re:Where was this class for me? by kfort · · Score: 1

      Dune is awesome but a classic case of great first book and incomprehensible sequel. I might also add Enders Game to that list.

    55. Re:Where was this class for me? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      You have me scratching my head here. I'll play the prude parent here for a moment (because I am one in Real Life), but if you are reading these authors for their sex scenes then you missed the boat.

      you are 100% correct. and that is what the Prudes focus on with their bright light of justice. They cant take context, they focus on that the book has a RAPE SCENE! OMG! OMG! OMG!

      Throw out the fact that Clockwork orange is a FANTASTIC piece of literature that gets you to think, and really makes you ponder free will.. Who cares, ban it! that rape scene is evil.. That is what I experience with the "moronic prudes" out there.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    56. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read A Clockwork Orange in HS and think I'm a better person for it -- though I was even shocked at the time that it was assigned reading.

    57. Re:Where was this class for me? by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      A Canticle for Leibowitz

      This brings to mind the thought of just letting somebody else decide: pick nothing but Hugo winners:

      The Demolished Man (Alfred Bester)
      Starship Troopers (Robert Heinlein)
      A Canticle for Leibowitz (Walter Miller)
      Stranger in a Strange Land (Robert Heinlein)
      Dune (Frank Herbert)
      Lord of Light (Roger Zelazny)
      The Left Hand of Darkness (Ursula K LeGuin)
      Ringworld (Larry Niven)
      The Gods Themselves (Isaac Asimov)
      The Forever War (Joe Haldeman)
      Startide Rising (David Brin)
      Neuromancer (William Gibson)
      Ender's Game (Orson Scott Card)

      Not a complete list, of course, but you can't really go wrong with any of them.

    58. Re:Where was this class for me? by Lil'wombat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've always felt that Niven alone was cool ideas, poor execution. Niven + Pournell was fantastic, and Niven + Pournell + Barnes was even better. Compare Legacy of Heorot/Beowulfs Children vs Mote in God's Eye vs Destiny Road.

      --

      Truth: If it's not one thing, it's another

    59. Re:Where was this class for me? by slagheap · · Score: 1
      In my high school Science Fiction class, we didn't read A Clockwork Orange, but we did watch the movie. I still can't believe my mom signed that permission slip.

      Anyway, we did read:

      • Brave New World
      • Martian Chronicles
      • Several short stories from an anthology of classic SF authors

      I remember finding many of the short stories annoying in that they were all One Dimensional Plot Line Set Against the Backdrop of Some Present Day Problem Run Amok... e.g. Billenium: overpopulation to the point where everyone lives in a tiny space and commutes to work in a river of people.

      --
      First against the wall when the revolution comes
    60. Re:Where was this class for me? by Lil'wombat · · Score: 1

      Lord Foul's Bane? Really. I'll give you that the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Non-Believer is a fantastic series, I almost didn't read it because LFB was such a crappy book.

      --

      Truth: If it's not one thing, it's another

    61. Re:Where was this class for me? by SmoothTom · · Score: 1

      I agree in the informing and being informed by our society and culture. To your Heinlein, Niven, and Clarke, I would add John Varley and Spider Robinson as some excellent source material.

    62. Re:Where was this class for me? by wytcld · · Score: 1

      There's incredible poetry in Zelazny. It's easy to overlook, since his stories have good pace and momentum. But while there are a number of sci-fi writers whose entire works I've read, only Zelazny and Heinlein have been worth reading three or four times. And of the two, Zelazny's prose is the one which stands out for sheer beauty. Subtle, but magnificent.

      In the one-reading-is-enough category, P.K. Dick is incredibly important. Heinlein was a big fan. And unlike Heinlein's work, Dick's has been turned into some first-rate movies, which can give your kids a hook to work back into it.

      --
      "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
    63. Re:Where was this class for me? by fredklein · · Score: 2, Interesting

      everyone who volunteered for combat service, and served, got to vote. No exceptions.

      Actually, everyone who did "Federal Service" got to vote. The military was only one part of Federal Service.

      Personally, I like the idea of making people do, say, 2 years of federal service. Assuming the 300 million people in the USA are equally distributed across ages 1-100, that means roughly 3 million people aged 18-19, and 3 million more 19-20. That's 6 million people!

      Imagine a person approaching their 18th birthday. They take an aptitude test, and get assigned as a police officer. First they get (as do all of the teens, no matter what their field) 6 months military training. Boot camp, basically. Give them some purpose, some knowledge of weaponry and strategy. This means that ALL citizens will have this knowledge, therefore, if the shit hits the fan, ANY citizen can step up and fight. The number of teens in this 6 month program at any given time will be about 1.5 million, approximately the size of the current US Military.

      Then they get 6 months (full time) training in law, use of weapons and other equipment, police policies, procedures, etc. They then hit the streets for the next 12 months. They are teamed with and supervised by the previous years cops. Upper ranked police ("management") are 'lifers', people who liked being cops so much they made it their career. Of course, they were carefully observed during their 2 years, and any who showed signs of abusing their power were not hired.

      The same holds for any other government position. Let the 'grunt work' be handled by the kids doing their two years, and have them managed by career men/women.

      It's an interesting idea.

    64. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonononono. Post-modern stuffs (satires, parodies) should come after the reader is well prepared with modern stuff (heavy reading).

    65. Re:Where was this class for me? by genner · · Score: 1

      Your Wall-e example is pretty poor. It's pretty shallow entertainment, the moral is fairly shallow as well, in addition to being a moral, which is itself a shallow literary tool.

      A lot of the time, the author really did intend to write just an adventure novel (The Lord of the Flies...) but more profound themes just kind of popped up completely by accident.

      Wall*E was just an Aesop Hammer designed to feed the flames of class envy and promote progressivism.

      So.
      Didn't you ever have to read Aesop in a Lit class?

    66. Re:Where was this class for me? by KingBenny · · Score: 0

      i agree, some early sci-fi described a lot of what present quantum mechanics is about

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
    67. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The philosophy [of] Starship Troopers is so easy to destroy?

      Really?

      Two of the tenets of that book were (a) all volunteer armed forces; (b) everyone who volunteered for combat service, and served, got to vote. No exceptions.

      You'll note the protagonist of that novel was Hispanic, and the protagonist of Tunnel in the Sky was black. Not exactly common for the 1950's.

      Even more uncommon is that according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Rico, the protagonist, was Filipino.

    68. Re:Where was this class for me? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      The Lord of the Flies is total shite. Some psuedo-intellectualism commentary about how imaginary (and unrealistic) boys behave with boring dialogue. I'd rather watch paint dry.

      There is nothing wrong with pulp fiction when it is done well. At least its entertaining instead of a total snooze-fest. _Good_ fiction will be accessible at all levels. i.e. The Matrix. Contact. etc...

    69. Re:Where was this class for me? by fireball84513 · · Score: 1

      you completely missed my point, obviously you don't like wall-e or the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. and just because you don't like them you think they should be excluded completely from the education system. its that type of backward thinking that makes the US higher education system the shit hole that it is now. "agree with me and ill give you an A!"

      --
      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
    70. Re:Where was this class for me? by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      Douglas' funniest bits were sneaked into very minor bits of exposition, not critical plot points. "The spaceships hung in the air just like bricks don't." The rest of his humor comes from knowing the proper way to deliver his lines, largely requiring at least some exposure to Monty python or other British comedy to know how to read 'Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.' Read the wrong way the humor is lost.

      That would explain why I tried one of his books and found it completely unfunny.

      The "The spaceships hung in the air just like bricks don't." stuff comes up as "look, I'm so clever!", which ends up sounding lame. And the monty python bits of course got lost because I hadn't seen any of it at that time yet.

    71. Re:Where was this class for me? by d'baba · · Score: 1

      Two of the tenets of that book were (a) all volunteer armed forces; (b) everyone who volunteered for combat service, and served, got to vote. No exceptions.

      Which translates as: "Go to Grenada. Go to Vietnam. Go to whatever godforsaken foreign land we the elected want to send you to, meet new interesting people and kill them and we'll give you franchise. So you can elect us again."

      Heinlein wrote as a survivor of WWII. But it is arguable that the conflicts we (as in USA) have inserted ourselves in since then have been to our (national) benefit and not uncommonly as an imperialist/colonialist. This is where the moral philosophy of his fails. Nothing the US military has done since WWII is in any way commensurate with an alien invasion that could destroy all humanity. Hell, not even an illegal alien invasion.

      Regardless of how racially equal he portrays his characters he still discriminates against those who stayed home and didn't participate in the "Big War". For whatever reason. Those who stay at home also serve.

      And anyway, franchising only the military is at least as bad as (and probably worse than) only franchising 'real property' owners.
      ---
      Hypertext isn't what it's marked up to be.

    72. Re:Where was this class for me? by VanGarrett · · Score: 1

      Actually, a great deal of the humor in the Hitchhiker's Guide was rooted in social & quasi-political commentary regarding various levels of Britain's culture. The Vogons, for example, operate as an exaggeration of British bureaucracy, and how unnecessarily difficult it is to get fairly simple things done, in it. The conditions of Zaphod's election, as well as the condition of the office that he ran for, referenced the inevitability that regardless of who's in office, the real power was left in the hands of someone else, who was entirely unseen (Lobbyists, for example). That being the case, I'd say there's adequate reason to include Douglas Adams' work in such a class.

    73. Re:Where was this class for me? by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>The philosophy Starship Troopers is so easy to destroy the average middle schooler could do it.

      How so? Even today it presents a fascinating alternative to the current system of voting we use. Of course, there's no way it would be implemented (universal franchise is a cornerstone of modern democracy), but it is interesting (even mind-expanding) to think about.

      Also, as my wife mentioned to me the other day, she would really have loved to have taken a class like that. We don't even have Civics classes in most high schools these days (it's not one of the A-E requirements for entry to college, so it gets scrapped). I'd personally love to see a semester Civics and Philosophy made mandatory in high schools, along with a semester of econ, but it's not English Language Arts (ironically enough) or Math, so it'll never happen given the constraints of NCLB.

      And if you think the argument is "so easy to destroy", consider the Roman Republic, and how its concept of civic duty meant that every citizen would voluntarily leave the farm and join the legions, no matter what. No matter that the previous three armies had been annihilated by Hannibal, and some cities had no eligible men left. The men still left their farms and formed yet another army to defeat the invader.

      Contrast that with our pussified culture today, and how even our volunteer armed men and women are mocked as baby killers, and how even 10 men killed in battle yesterday made the front page of the Drudge Report. There is something to be said for Heinlein's idea in Starship Troopers (though, as mentioned in Expanded Universe, it was an idea, not a serious suggestion)... sacrifice, civic duty, and freedom have always been linked together.

    74. Re:Where was this class for me? by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      Heinlein wrote as a survivor of WWII. But it is arguable that the conflicts we (as in USA) have inserted ourselves in since then have been to our (national) benefit and not uncommonly as an imperialist/colonialist. This is where the moral philosophy of his fails. Nothing the US military has done since WWII is in any way commensurate with an alien invasion that could destroy all humanity. Hell, not even an illegal alien invasion.

      Which is why he *also* proposed that the electorate would have ultimate control over if it wanted to go to war. With the caveat that if the measure passed, anyone who voted for it would have to report to a recruiter the next day and volunteer.

    75. Re:Where was this class for me? by Blackhalo · · Score: 1

      I sooo agree. I do not think I have ever been able to complete the first book but the second and third, are awesome. Plus he goes way overboard with the leper/"woe is me" real world stuff. Now "The Gap Cycle" is just twisted, brilliant!

      --
      "There is nothing to do it. But to do it." -Floyd Pepper
    76. Re:Where was this class for me? by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      Two of the tenets of that book were (a) all volunteer armed forces; (b) everyone who volunteered for combat service, and served, got to vote. No exceptions.

      Not everyone who served did combat duty. There were medics, scientists and all the other support roles. The whole "everybody fights" mantra seemed to be restricted to the Mobile Infantry.

      What I got from it was that in order to be allowed to steer society, you first had to prove you actually gave a damn by putting in some of your actual blood, sweat and tears.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    77. Re:Where was this class for me? by gmrath · · Score: 1

      H. Beam Piper Paula E. Downing. May not be in print. May not even be in libraries.

    78. Re:Where was this class for me? by mrrudge · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No thank you, there's little enough time to get through all the things I want to learn, investigate and use without wasting two years learning ( through routine degradation ) how to effectively kill other human beings without questioning the reason and/or be the instrument of a system I can see the need for but don't always agree with the letter of.

      In practice this is likely to continue a jock culture for another two years of what's already a painful experience for the generally more sensitive/intelligent members of a society, and training 1.5 million young adults to kill effectively almost guarantees the shit will hit the fan regularly. Your army is big enough to fight the entire world already.

    79. Re:Where was this class for me? by rbrander · · Score: 1

      Thanks for letting me know Rod Walker was black. I never twigged. I found the confirmation here:
      http://www.heinleinsociety.org/rah/faqworks.html

      It was very subtle, in my defense - it was a favourite trick of Heinlein's, the above source notes, to reveal or hint that positive characters were non-white late in the game (like Juan Rico), presumably to mess with racist's heads. I vividly remember my first Heinlein (at 9), Space Cadet, in a scene where a character is defending himself from a real charge of racism - against Venusians; he asks "Does it matter to any of us that Lieutenant Peters is black as the ace of spades?" This is long after Peters has left the scene and you must suddenly adjust your image of him. The novel's year: 1946.

      By the way, you didn't get the vote in Troopers for combat duty: you got it for ANY FEDERAL SERVICE. Not everybody was good enough to be allowed into the forces, but everybody had a right to earn a vote. They would still find an unpleasant job for you, like testing new vaccines. But even a blind quadrapelegic could earn voting rights, even if they had to assign him to nasty make-work like "counting the hairs on a caterpillar by touch". I think only a minority of volunteers for public service were taken for combat training and didn't wash out. The rest had to wash bedpans or sweep streets or whatever.

      It aggravates me that Heinlein never comes up (from the professors) in these "college course" lists; he's considered too commercial or maligned as fascist for ST or something. But over 20 years after he died, his books are still on the shelves; doesn't that prove anything to these academics.

      I took an SF course in 1978; one book was "Voyage to Arcturus" by David Lindsay, which is considered all artful and deep and influential and so forth. I found it tedious and obtuse, and despite the rave reviews ("greatest novel of the 20th century"), defy you to find it anywhere but Amazon; I've never seen it on any shelf but the University bookstore in 1978.

      I gather Dickens was considered a commercial hack in his time by the academics; but where are the academic superstars of his era now?

    80. Re:Where was this class for me? by Nursie · · Score: 1

      Heilein does nothing but try to cram his social and political views down the reader's throat. They're naive and simplistic views at that.

    81. Re:Where was this class for me? by Migity · · Score: 1

      How about Isaac Asimov's Foundation series and one that I just finished reading that I enjoyed, Michael Crichton's Timeline.

    82. Re:Where was this class for me? by oboeaaron · · Score: 1

      . . . there's little enough time to get through all the things I want to learn, investigate and use without wasting two years learning ( through routine degradation ) how to effectively kill other human beings . . .

      Heinlein specifically states in the book that the armed forces make up only a small percentage (2% I think) of the government services one may serve in to qualify for the vote. That would likely mitigate the influence of veterans among the total body of voting citizens. I seem to recall this comes up when Rico's father is trying to talk him out of joining the military (it's been 20 years since I read the book - apologies if the details are a bit fuzzy) and to steer him towards a safer civil service job.

      --
      Journey onward.
    83. Re:Where was this class for me? by mrrudge · · Score: 1

      Thank you. This was more in response to fredklein's idea of giving everyone at least 6 months military boot camp training at age eighteen. To give a purpose and a knowledge of weaponry and strategy, followed by six months more of law and police based urban weaponry, all of which I think is a perfectly horrible idea. ( Six months of law might not be such a bad idea. )

      My apologies for lack of clarity.

    84. Re:Where was this class for me? by IRGlover · · Score: 1

      Racism, censorship, homophobia, totalitarianism, anarchy, genocide, etc...these are really hard things to discuss with a group of high-school kids

      For that reason I would add 'A Scanner Darkly' by Philip k. Dick. Themes related to drugs and identity are very relevant to today's teenagers. The book is rooted in the present, so is recognisable and there is little moralising. It is being told by someone who lived through and survived drug abuse and the final dedication to friends that didn't survive is particularly moving.

    85. Re:Where was this class for me? by testadicazzo · · Score: 1

      Almost any of K.V.'s novels would be suitable for inclusion. Also worth being on the list, and conspicuously missing are Asimov and P.K. Dick. Gibsons neuromancer is interesting in particular for its cultural influence and devlopment of the web and web slang. Finally, Joseph Halderman (Forwever War, Forever Peace, etc) writes some of the most intelligent, interesting speculative fiction out there.

    86. Re:Where was this class for me? by testadicazzo · · Score: 1
      I have to disagree with you there. Obligatory service has many merits worth mentioning:

      You say "oh no, I won't be able to do and work on the things i'm interested in because I'll be learning how to kill people". Well, that's not true. Unless you sign up as infantry or some such discipline, you'll likely be learning some other skill. I for example, was a mechanic in the marines, which comes in handy every once in a while today, despite the fact that it's unrelated to my work as a computational physicist, or any of my hobbies. My time in the military turned me into a confirmed and active pacifist and anti-war agitator. It was in fact a growing experience. I think a mandatory service system, similar to Swiss system, would be very good for the U.S. 3-6 months active duty for training, and 2 weeks a summer service. Kind of like modified reserves or national guard. Pacifists can volunteer for non-military activities, like aid work, medical services, environmental recovery etc. Heinlein (and I'm not a big fan) got oner other thing right: no officer class: officers start out as enlisted men and work their way up. The swiss do that as well.

      Shared service (following the swiss model) then crosses class bounds. Intelectualls have work side by side with working class uneducated joes. One of my colleagues in my studies was a fat swiss kid, who was one of those really abstract mathematicians. He wasn't interested in anything remotely practical, and he had a pretty snobby, effete attitude. Having to live a working class life for a few weeks did him an enormous amount of good, and got him out in the fresh air for a spot of exercise. This is good for national unity, and improves political dialog, since it's harder to get people to group up in us vs them groups.

      Mandatory service (following the swiss model) has profound cultural influences as well. Because the military is by a vast majority comprised of citizenry who mostly have better and more rewarding things to do, the military isn't glorified. Because almost everyone is either in the military or has a kid or loved one who is in the military, it's a hell of a lot harder to get a war going. Public opposition is almost immediately against it unless they perceive a real need. It improves the culture of a military reminding it that it's all about the people. It would be a lot harder to get a bunch of students serving their 2 weeks service to shoot on another bunch of students protesting a war, for example. It also pretty much eliminates the chance of a military coup, and reduces the role of the military as a another special-interest power player.

      The current military system in the United States is, frankly, obscene. It has probably the worst instance of a class structure in an already highly class aware culture. It draws the cannon fodder from the poorest population, who seldom have other options available to them. The military and the citzenry goes blithely into wars because by and large they aren't affected, and after all the solders chose to join. It has an extremely tribal in group/out group mindset, and because of this screws up the proper functioning our democracy. It's not called the military industrial complex for nothing. Further, the class nature of our culture is so screwed up, we really have people living in tiny seperate realities. My sister lives in a gated community with armed guards, ten foot walls, a private golf course and radio controlled gates for christ sake, and this is meant to be a good culture? Our political discussions sound more like people cheering for different teams playing in the superbowl than they do like informed debates about complex issues.

      Shared service would mitigate all of these evils.

    87. Re:Where was this class for me? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      training 1.5 million young adults to kill effectively almost guarantees the shit will hit the fan regularly.

      Actually, you can guarantee the shit will hit the fan regularly regardless. It's always happened; there's no reason to think it won't continue to do so. It's the nature of the world. Having an effective military just means you can cope with it when it does.

    88. Re:Where was this class for me? by ponos · · Score: 1

      So.
      Didn't you ever have to read Aesop in a Lit class?

      As Umberto Eco has commented ("Apocalittici e integrati", "Semiotics, fiction, popular culture"), what was once conceived as an original contribution to art may lose its artistic value if presented in a different context, especially in a more modern audience. Any half-decent artist could easily copy Van Gogh's painting style or Hemigway's writing style. When everyone has been exposed and digested the original, the interest is usually lost. In that sense, although a modern fable may be part of our popular culture, it has much less artistic value today unless it explores some new dimension of the art.

      In a similar spirit, stories which try to enforce an interpretation by using excessive artistic means (rather than leave that to the receiver) are what Eco calls "Kitsch". As Saint-Exupery had said (to paraphrase), "elegance is a process of substraction". The grand-parent was correct in the sense that a moral is usually a shallow literary tool that hinders open interpretation. Morals should not be handed down by art by generated by its interpretation.

      P.

    89. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either my sarcasm detector is broken, or you are an enormous douchebag.

    90. Re:Where was this class for me? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I'd suggest a historical sampling, from H.G. Wells to Cory Doctorow. Be sure to include Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke (even though I don't much like his stuff, it's considered classic), Niven, etc.

      HHGTG would be extra credit; although it is a "science fiction" story, it's primarily humor. Plus, at five volumes it's rather long, a class like yours (an overview, right?) should concentrate on short stories.

      There are a few works on the internet you could use -- They're Made Out of Meat is an excellent story and posted n the internet, the 1940s A Logic Named Joe, which is the only story I've seen that predicts the internet in any way (Multivac doesn't count), is posted on the internet. As are Doctorow's books.

    91. Re:Where was this class for me? by Alsee · · Score: 1

      You have me scratching my head a bit. Maybe you're just trying to "play the part of the prude", but you claim you are one in Real Life, but you're complaints and defensiveness don't really make sense to me. It doesn't seem you are the sort of person he's talking about. I think I pretty much see the key point here:

      if you are reading these authors for their sex scenes then you missed the boat.

      Well yeah, of course. But my point is that YOU are apparently recognizing that making it "about the sex scenes" is to miss the boat. HIS point, in relation to your comment there, is that the prudes are missing the boat. Prudes make it all about sex. They see one page with a few naughty words and they have a meltdown - or even worse and more typically - they hear some fourth-hand report that there are naughty words in there, and they have a meltdown.

      I don't know how you would react if one of these typical "Christian Conservative problem books" came up in your child's school, but you do seem to recognize that there is important content in books and that just focusing on some sex scene is "missing the boat". Someone mentioned A Clockwork Orange. I haven't read that book, but based on the movie I can well imagine some scenes of the book are even more graphic and disturbing. But the story as a whole says many important and powerful things about morality and society and free will and people's rights and humanity and human nature and who we are and who do we want to be and how do we want to treat people, and ultimately the dilemma of how do we treat criminals? The dilemma, the paradox, can we do we should we as a society respect the humanity of a depraved individual who violates the humanity of others? At what point do we as individuals and as a society become just as depraved and inhuman?

      It is a story and morality play that cannot be told without graphic and disturbing scenes of sex and violence.

      my vantage point
      prudes do get worked up over class room material
      I complained about my high school daughter watching Scrubs and Casino Royal in school

      Huh?????
      I'm not objecting to your complaint there... I might well make the same gripe to school officials if some teacher blew classtime on fluff comedy TV. Teachers are not BABY SITTERS, and they damn well shouldn't be treating students as a baby sitting job.

      My confusion is how or why you connect that with "prudism".

      I'm sure I'll go down in the school history as just another local religious nut job though.

      I don't know what anyone at the school things or said about it, but I have seen absolutely no indication of that here from you or by anyone here against you.

      Lets take a more specific example of what I believe the other poster was talking about. The one book that has been been at the center of the largest number of Christian Conservative nut job melt downs in US schools is Catcher in the Rye. It contains the word "fuck" and the phrase "goddamn". The main character has a conversation with a prostitute - not even a sex scene he just talks to her and pays her for her time. At one point another character pats the main character on the head, and the main character wonders if it might have been a homosexual advance. There is no sexuality in the scene, we have no indication that the head pat was intended to be sexual, but the main character wonders about the possibility and becomes uncomfortable and leaves.

      Would you storm into a public highschool demanding that Catcher in the Rye be banned and teachers reprimanded or fire over it?

      If not, then please don't legitimize those sorts of people by identifying with them and buying into their Christian Persecution Complex whines. If I criticize or insult or mock THEM, that is not Christian persecution and it's not an attack on you.

      On the other hand if you *are* the sort of person who storms into schools screaming about Catcher in the Rye and other "objectionable" books (which at the moment I have no indication to be the case), then ok in that

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    92. Re:Where was this class for me? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      give us a glimpse into the far future

      These glimpses into the far future are never anywhere near what the real futire will be. Consider Verne's From the Earth to the Moon, where they were shot to the moon not with a rocket, but a cannon. Or Asimov's "Multivac" or even Murray Leinster's A Logic Named Joe, where the internet (not called the internet, of course) breaks down when one of the machines actually gives out information!

      "Now, now, honey!" I says. "I didn't know about all this! It's new! But they musta fixed the tank so it won't give out information except to the logic where a person lives!"

      "Nothing of the kind!" she tells me, furious. "I tried! And you know that Blossom woman who lives next door! She's been married three times and she's forty-two years old and she says she's only thirty! And Mrs. Hudson's had her husband arrested four times for nonsupport and once for beating her up. And--"

      "Hey!" I says. "You mean the logic told you this?"

      "Yes!" she wails. "It will tell anybody anything! You've got to stop it! How long will it take?"

      "I'll call up the tank," I says. "It can't take long."

      "Hurry!" she says, desperate, "before somebody punches my name! I'm going to see what it says about that hussy across the street."

      She snaps off to gather what she can before it's stopped. So I punch for the tank and I get this new "What is your name?" flash. I got a morbid curiosity and I punch my name, and the screen says: "Were you ever called Ducky?" I blink. I ain't got no suspicions. I say, "Sure!" And the screen says, "There is a call for you."

      Mind you, this story was written less than fifty years before the real internet materialized.

      Don't forget that there are going to be inventions and discoveries that nobody today can dream of. When the laser was invented, nobody could think of a use for it, except maybe ray guns. Now they're in everything, it seems.

      Science fiction, rather than telling us how the future will be, invariably tells us exactly how the future won't be. believe me, I've been reading science fiction since today's reality was science fiction, and none of it happened as the authors said it was going to.

    93. Re:Where was this class for me? by fredklein · · Score: 1

      No thank you, there's little enough time to get through all the things I want to learn, investigate and use without wasting two years learning ( through routine degradation ) how to effectively kill other human beings without questioning the reason and/or be the instrument of a system I can see the need for but don't always agree with the letter of.

      No one said you would have to "waste two years...learning to kill". Six months (or four, maybe three. It's a rough idea in progress) learning basic military stuff. Weapons, strategy, tactics, law, history, and how to apply all that when you need it. After that, you go on to learn your assigned work. My example was 'police', but it might be 'DMV worker' or 'construction worker' or 'road worker' or 'building inspector', or 'social worker' or 'computer tech', or one of thousands of other government jobs.

    94. Re:Where was this class for me? by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      With that in mind, I have to recommend Little Brother by Cory Doctorow. Great book, and aimed at the highschool level. Great thing about it is that all the technology in the book is completely available, albeit a little reworked. One of the main goals of this sci-fi book is to make a sci-fi novel where the technology wasn't completely fake. He did a really good job. Also a great book because it's available for free in electronic for if your school can't afford hard copies.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    95. Re:Where was this class for me? by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      You have me scratching my head here. I'll play the prude parent here for a moment (because I am one in Real Life), but if you are reading these authors for their sex scenes then you missed the boat.

      You might be a parent in Real Life, but that right there already tells me you're no prude. A prude would object to the fact that the books contain sex scenes and deal with sexuality at all. If you're willing to accept that your child is exposed to these topics because the overall work says something important that causes the reader to think, then you're not a prude.

      E.g., when I complained about my high school daughter watching Scrubs and Casino Royal in school, it wasn't about the material per se but because she was watching them in English (no subtitles, nothing) in Spanish class. You see, they took two weeks off because the teacher couldn't bring herself to put together a lesson plan. I'm sure I'll go down in the school history as just another local religious nut job though.

      I have no idea why you think that is. Maybe it's because you've been lucky enough not to witness actual local religious nut-jobs. When I was in High School, I joined the Sci-Fi and Fantasy Club. Basically, we met after school, exchanged books, played dungeons and dragons, talked about video games. No, not exactly the type of extra-curricular activity that was going to get universities interested in your application, but it was after-school (not taking up class time), and we could do worse. This lasted for 3 months, until the parent of one of the members got wind that we were going to be playing dungeons and dragons, and decided to get the club shut down due to "satanic activity" (bear in mind, this wasn't the 70's, it was the mid-90's). No, it wasn't enough to pull the kid out of the club, the religious nutjob had to ruin it for the rest of us.

      So I don't think you're a prude or religious nutjob for taking an interest in your daughters' education. I think that makes you a good parent. Doesn't mean that the real prudes and nutjobs don't exist.

    96. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      William Gibson is an oft-overlooked and under-appreciated modern-day author who's earlier work was solidly science fiction. Neuromancer is a great read... so, for that matter, is Idoru, or All Tomorrow's Parties. If you're looking for a more modern-day fantasy, try Pattern Recognition. All of his work contains some social commentary - and he is know for being one of the more creative science fiction writers out there. Pattern Recognition made it to #3 on the NYT Best Sellers list.

    97. Re:Where was this class for me? by BodhiCat · · Score: 1

      Yes, and it was Glofindel riding the horse that saved Frodo, not that Half-Elf Princess

    98. Re:Where was this class for me? by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I actually took a sci-fi and fantasy class in my high school back in 1988

      I've never been able to figure out why these two completely different genres are always lumped together? Fantasy fiction almost always takes plece in the past, science fiction almost always takes place in the future. Fantasy deals with magic, scifi deals with science and technology.

      I don't get it, unless it's that to so many people, technology IS magic. Since it isn't really, why do literature teachers lump the two together?

      Personally, I've always been a fan of science fiction, and with the exceptins of Tolkien and Pratchett have never liked fantasy. I always wanted stuff explained, both in fiction and in life. "It's magic" never worked for me.

    99. Re:Where was this class for me? by Gulthek · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you want to live in Switzerland. Good call.

    100. Re:Where was this class for me? by bigngamer92 · · Score: 1
      "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

      I think they get grouped because they both use outrageous settings to really stress the human condition.

    101. Re:Where was this class for me? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      ...the sex scenes and outright violence in some of the books would have the moronic prude parents today suing everyone in sight for every reason. Hell reading a clockwork orange today in a high school would get most teachers fired.

      It's always been that way, only worse. Back in my day there was outrage over books with just a "bad word" or two in them. It really IS getting better.

    102. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dead on.
      In High school especially, science fiction and fantasy that are roots to current novels are important. Starship Troopers definitely (my fav), though The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (influence on the space program), Job a Comedy of Justice (religious commentary), or Stranger in a Strange Land (it MADE the 1970's).
      I would put Dune in a college class, but it is a tough read for high school.
      Asimov's Caves of Steel would be another good one (Urbanity in the extreme), though "I robot" would be easier for homework (it is a pile of short stories).
      Clarke's 2001 a space odessy (influence)
      The Hobbit is a definite include. The whole LOR may be too much.
      A few odder social commentary works post-apocalyptics: "The Gate to Womens Country" (post apocalyptic feminist circa 1960's) or "Planet of the Apes" (Apes more cultured then people?) or "Logan's Run" (over 21 = dead, 1960's influence) (all are easy to catch if they cheat and watch the movie vs reading the book...very different)

      Historical: "Frankestien"+"Dracula" and HG Wells "War of the Worlds" (these three resulted in many current works and movies, esp: ID4, etc.

    103. Re:Where was this class for me? by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      I truly applaud your sentiments, Good Citizen testadicazzo, and must agree with everything you say, as they certainly mirrored my own experience during Vietnam in the US military, which certainly wouldn't have ended as soon as it did without the draft. The worst thing Nixon did (Nixon's revenge) was to end the draft --- when it should have evolved to universal conscription.

      I recall during the period when they were handing out assignments, the Ohio University grad sitting next to me, who scored Category Four, was incensed as he was to be a cook (actually a step up for a sociology grad incapable of doing anything useful or functional and couldn't handle simple algebra).

      If only George Bush had actually finished USAF basic training (enlisted, he only managed four weeks????) before being gifted with a direct officer's commission. If only that chronic imbecile and knave, John Boehner of Ohio, hadn't been kicked out of Navy boot camp for his bedwetting problem.....

    104. Re:Where was this class for me? by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      I agree with this. It certainly will change people's ideas about what is part of these genre's and I think it's a better idea then for example Discworld, as the HHGTTG can be said to have inspired things like Wikipedia.

      I think you should try to pick books with big new concepts and that have defined or expanded the genre.

      I think one of the Asminov books should be in there were the Laws of Robotics are used and the first Foundation book, for having the concept of Psychohistory.
      Of course the already mentioned Verne, Clarke (2001) and Tolkien easily make the list.
      I think Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game would also make my list, it's I think the same topic as Starship Troopers, I haven't read that book, only seen the movie. The topic of genocide in both worthy of dicussion.
      Animal Farm should be on a general English list, not such a specific one, 1984 might be included in both though.
      Put some Cyberpunk in there, Neuromancer or something like that.
      HG Wells Time Machine and/or War of the Worlds are classics too.

      Dune would not make my list, even though it's a great book, it's not really breaking much new ground, and it's not something you read in an afternoon. I think I would recommend it to those students that liked the course material though.

      You might want to consider Tanith Lee's White Witch, it's on the border of SF and Fantasy, but I found it very original, and it might be a tantalizing read at the Highschool age. Another might be the Peace War by Vernor Vinge, or The Chrysalids by John Wyndham, both have interesting post-apocalyptic topics, and might work well with a high school audience.

      There are of course many more, some I haven't read (yet), and a lot of other nice suggestions in this thread, but that would be my shortlist.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    105. Re:Where was this class for me? by Kazin · · Score: 1

      Years ago, I'd have argued with you here. I've read (and own) all of Niven's "Known Space" works, I started reading and collecting them when I was 14-15.

      I just went back and read a few, and read the new "Draco Tavern" collection. Still haven't read any of Niven's work-with-others, but now that I'm older... yeah. There's a ton of FAR better work out there than Niven-alone has ever put out.

      Sorta like a childhood memory that just isn't so great to relive when you're an adult. Oh well.

    106. Re:Where was this class for me? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Personally, I like the idea of making people do, say, 2 years of federal service.

      Sorry, my government is supposed to work for ME, not the other way around.

      6 months military training. Boot camp, basically

      Have you ever been in the military? You want to JAIL people who have committed no crimes!

      It's an interesting idea.

      Only to an authoritarian. You kids today and your wierd ideas... sheesh. Haven't we lost enough freedom already?

    107. Re:Where was this class for me? by aywwts4 · · Score: 1

      Sadly from my experience with others who I encouraged to read the book, most people find the lower level of the book unsatisfying and confusing. (Deliberately so however) I don't think Douglas Adams fully blossoms until you read it twice, And I know few people who really 'got' his work, that didn't upon finishing the book start it all over again right away.

      And no I didn't say people who do less critical thinking are stupider, often they are straight A college bound students.

      They gloss pages, look for testable components of books, spark notes the rest, and move on to the next piece of homework in their overwhelming course loads.

      Some books are meant to be consumed like a meal, then you move on, other books are meant to unfold in your mind. I think in high school many students, especially many college bound ones are still in the consume it, test it, and forget it mentality, and very few high school English teachers do much to break them of this habit which they will hopefully lose in college once they get exposed to the likes of the authors you mentioned and more, However even in high school units on Existentialism the lessons are surprisingly shallow.

      Sadly the creative abstract parts of the brain needed most are the ones that Atrophy from complete disuse sometime after second grade.

      Hopefully this OP teacher can use this excellent subject mater to get kids think critically again, particularly the best and brightest, its sad when you see kids running through motions just to maintain a 4.0 for a certain college, wasting a part of their life they should be free to develop.

      --
      Web Developers: Celebrate to our roots! Animated Gifs and Tiled Backgrounds, dont let our history die!
    108. Re:Where was this class for me? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      I think Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game would also make my list, it's I think the same topic as Starship Troopers, I haven't read that book, only seen the movie.

      I agree that Ender's Game should be included.

      But if all you know about Starship Troopers is the movie, then all you know is the title. Note that genocide wasn't even an issue in Starship Troopers the book.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    109. Re:Where was this class for me? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      I've never been able to figure out why these two completely different genres are always lumped together? Fantasy fiction almost always takes plece in the past, science fiction almost always takes place in the future. Fantasy deals with magic, scifi deals with science and technology.

      I don't get it, unless it's that to so many people, technology IS magic. Since it isn't really, why do literature teachers lump the two together?

      Mostly it's because both of them are a mirror of ourselves, using unreality to disguise the mirror.

      Also, one must remember Clarke's Law - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" (and it's corollary, "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" - note Operation Chaos, by Poul Anderson).

      And come to that, let's include some Poul Anderson. "The Man Who Counts", as a minimum, plus "Operation Chaos", "Mirkheim", and "The Avatar" if possible. And "A Midsummer's Tempest" for extra credit....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    110. Re:Where was this class for me? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Actually, everyone who did "Federal Service" got to vote. The military was only one part of Federal Service.

      Exactly so. Point was made in the book that few people who volunteered were in the military, and not even many of were in combat.

      Personally, I like the idea of making people do, say, 2 years of federal service.

      Whoosh.

      Missed the boat completely on that one. Service in Starship Troopers was entirely voluntary. Because, as the author points out, you cannot instill a social conscience on someone by force.

      I'd rather have ten cops that are doing it because they think it's the right thing to do than a hundred doing it because they're required to do it by law (or any other reason)....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    111. Re:Where was this class for me? by Dragoness+Eclectic · · Score: 1

      No, you are wrong. Dune is most assuredly *NOT* fantasy; it is an extremely complex work of science-fiction.

      The fundamental difference between fantasy and science fiction is not whether the story's world obeys the laws of physics as currently understood on planet Earth--after all, with sufficiently advanced technology you can define your own laws to suit--it is more "What is our explanation for why things are different, and where are we going from here?"

      It has been observed that science fiction is progressive--the world changes, and change improves things, change is GOOD; while fantasy is conservative--we're trying to return to some lost Golden Age, or stop one from ending, and change away from that Golden Age is BAD.

      --
      ---dragoness
    112. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, yeah, I'd say it really IS easy to tear down.

      (a) all volunteer armed forces. - This is good.
      (b) everyone who volunteered for combat service, and served, got to vote. No exceptions.-- AND ONLY those who volunteer can vote. So this isn't a democracy so much as a military junta. And before you can say that this system wouldn't necessarily lead to anything bad, remember that the opening scene of the book is a politically influenced bombing run of one of the "skinnies" cities.

      Oh, and if they don't feel they need your particular services they can assign you to be an experimental medical test subject.

      It's nice that they let Filipinos vote in the future. It really is. But the rest of his philosophy kind falls flat outside of the barracks.

    113. Re:Where was this class for me? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      My mom read the radio transcript to me as a bedtime story; I wore down the VHS recording of the miniseries off PBS; and I read the novels when I was 10 or so. I still felt like I got more out of it after a long break (and after college).

      Christ I hate grade-grubbing vermin. Still, I've made it all the way to a good grad school on pure idealism and I've gotta say; 1) it's the most miserable and exhausting way to get anything done it the long run, and 2) no one makes it through unscathed.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    114. Re:Where was this class for me? by srmalloy · · Score: 1

      I want to know where this class was $Big_Num years ago. I would have jumped at the chance to participate in such a class.

      I took a class laughingly titled "Modern Science Fiction" in college, back in the late 70s. The material covered started with Shelley's Frankenstein, and finished in the early 50s without ever touching authors like E. E. 'Doc' Smith (much less Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Simak, Silverberg, or even Vernor Vinge, who was teaching mathematics there at the time); there were very few works that I would consider SF covered in the class. The telling point for me was discovering that the professor teaching the class did not, himself, actually read science fiction.

    115. Re:Where was this class for me? by eshockes · · Score: 1

      Problem is most parents freak out. I was in an advanced Lit class and was introduced to Heinlein, Vonnegut, niven, EE Smith, and Ben Bova as writers and the sex scenes and outright violence in some of the books would have the moronic prude parents today suing everyone in sight for every reason.

      In High School in 1964, my Senior English Literature class was instructed to read a passage in a Shakespeare play silently. Why? Because it contained the word "breast". I thought that was a bit much. Teachers then had the same issues to deal with.

    116. Re:Where was this class for me? by amanaplanacanalpanam · · Score: 1

      I always wanted stuff explained, both in fiction and in life. "It's magic" never worked for me.

      You must have been one of the two people (along with George Lucas) who enjoyed the midi-chlorian explanation for the Force.

    117. Re:Where was this class for me? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      I really can't tell whether you're an idiot who's being serious, or a fool who's being sarcastic ...

    118. Re:Where was this class for me? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      No thank you, there's little enough time to get through all the things I want to learn, investigate and use without wasting two years learning ( through routine degradation ) how to effectively kill other human beings without questioning the reason and/or be the instrument of a system I can see the need for but don't always agree with the letter of.

      That's cool. Instead, you can spend 2 years learning to effectively protect your life and the lives of those around you, through direct force, organization, medical assistance, and sound decision making.

      In practice this is likely to continue a jock culture for another two years of what's already a painful experience for the generally more sensitive/intelligent members of a society, and training 1.5 million young adults to kill effectively almost guarantees the shit will hit the fan regularly.

      I've trained dozens of sensitive/intelligent members of society during my stint as a military instructor, all of whom joined voluntarily. They didn't seem to see it as an extension of "jock culture" - instead they found acceptance, encouragement, and a courage and self-confidence which they didn't think they possessed. I should know, I started off the same. Being sensitive and intelligent didn't prevent me from becoming the stereotypical "Drill Sargent" - it just meant I knew how to play the game better. It's not your sensitivity which has made you so opposed to joining - it's your ignorance.

      Your army is big enough to fight the entire world already.

      This sentence is clearly the crescendo of your diatribe; the clear, unambiguous proclamation of your ignorance on all things military. Ironically enough, you've managed to make a good argument for universal service, while attempting to argue against it.

    119. Re:Where was this class for me? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Sorry, my government is supposed to work for ME, not the other way around.

      The military doesn't work for the government - it works for the citizens.

      Have you ever been in the military?

      I don't know about him, but I sure have.

      You want to JAIL people who have committed no crimes!

      Have you been to jail?

    120. Re:Where was this class for me? by Glyphn · · Score: 1

      You might be a parent in Real Life, but that right there already tells me you're no prude. A prude would object to the fact that the books contain sex scenes and deal with sexuality at all.

      We could assess my bona fides but if you assume I am insincere then I don't imagine any evidence will suffice.

      How about we consider the phrasing and the context for a moment? "Moronic prude" is much like "religious nut-job" in that it is inherently pejorative. It is a label useful only for dismissing the opinions of others. (How could they possibly have values in perspective? After all, they are prudes?)

      So, when I read Lumpy's post, I tried to look beyond the label to the context: "the sex scenes and outright violence in some of the books would have the moronic prude parents today suing everyone in sight for every reason." Ok, now I think I know who he is referring to. Beyond the occasional talk radio I listen to, I've lived in the Bible belt and even spent a few years in Utah so I've been exposed to the, er, militantly religious. But taken in that context, his point seemed ... hyperbolic -- i.e. oooh, the religious right taking legal action against teachers who have their students read Starship Troopers or Ringworld or the Lensman for the rampent sex scenes. Surely there are men with less straw in them. Does he really think religious conservatives are so prudish or did a better example (e.g. Ian Banks, Guy Gavriel Kay, Tannith Lee or other authors of the grimly dark or erotic) just not spring to mind?

      Basically, we met after school, exchanged books, played dungeons and dragons, talked about video games. ... This lasted for 3 months, until the parent of one of the members got wind that we were going to be playing dungeons and dragons, and decided to get the club shut down due to "satanic activity"

      I've been in a similar situation. In fact, I've seen this recently arise with one my children. The interesting thing is that the parent I'm thinking of who objects strongly to D&D has no problem with his son playing any number of violent or fantastic video games -- just something about D&D sets them off. But then from other conversations I know he can be very rational on other issues (and possible even rational on the topic of D&D as well, since we haven't discussed it in detail.) In any case, the Vocal Yokels aren't always as prudish, crazy, or even as facile as they may first appear.

      So I don't think you're a prude or religious nutjob for taking an interest in your daughters' education. I think that makes you a good parent. Doesn't mean that the real prudes and nutjobs don't exist.

      I appreciate the sentiment, but I find that how people are judged often depends on the order of presented evidence. Were I to have led off my response by talking about (e.g.) the type of language, media, activities I allow in my house ... well, I wonder if you'd say the same.

      But yes, I know a few people who, in my own judgment, are exceptionally prudish -- non-thinkers who march to the strident beat of their preferred demagogue, and some unstable enough to also qualify as nutjobs. These people are not that common, in my opinion. More common by far are the close-minded sorts on both sides who casually toss labels, and refuse to take a deep breath and engage with some measure of patience.

      Oh well. I guess my point, assuming I have one, is that once you apply a pejorative label to a person, they become varelse and it becomes impossible to grok them.

      (Weak attempt to drag this back in a SciFi direction, but it's the best I have at the moment.)

    121. Re:Where was this class for me? by cornjones · · Score: 1

      I can see the parallels. You are presenting a skewed or idealized world that your characters have to work within. There are arbitrary rulesets that differ from our experience in this world.

      A great example recently, for me, was when I read Richard Morgans latest, the steel remains. If you haven't read anything by Morgan, run don't walk and pick up Altered Carbon. It is a very interesting world (sci-fi) with all sorts of great technology. And his characters are such badasses but flawed enough to like. I read all of his other books (all scifi, some near term future but most several hundred years ahead). I was very excited to see his new book coming out. Low and behold, when I grabbed the sample chapter on the kindle, it was fantasy. As in guy w/ big magic sword fantasy. WTF? I read the sample and it did seem ok. I am a fantasy fan anyways, i was just disappointed b/c i really liked the futures and technologies that he crafted.

      About 1/2 way through the book, i realized his fantasy was exactly like his scifi. The same fantastical back alleys with strange visions on the edge of human acceptance. Different names for the strange drugs that his characters were on that gave this edge or that.

      If you don't think sci-fi and fantasy are the same genre, read altered carbon and the steel remains (and I encourage you to read any of the others). I suspect it will change your mind.

    122. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never been able to figure out why these two completely different genres are always lumped together? Fantasy fiction almost always takes plece in the past, science fiction almost always takes place in the future.

      The problem is that there is so much overlap between the two. Future/past is clearly not a good defining factor, unless you want to call McCaffrey's "Dragonriders" series or Melanie Rawn's "Exiles" trilogy Sci-Fi. Both are clearly in the fantasy genre, even if they are set in the far future of mankind.

      For a long time I also thought that a good way to distinguish them was to look at how well they explained how things worked, or if they were just described as magic. However even this breaks apart when you compare, for example, LeGuin's "Earthsea" books and Herbert's "Dune". While the former has magic in it, the magic has clear rules that are carefully described. (In fact, I find the magic in Earthsea much more believable than the "science" in most of Sci-fi.) Otherwise the books clearly fall in the fantasy category, with pseudo medieval setting. On the other hand, in Dune we have lots of technology that is in no way explained, not to mention the magic like abilities of the Bene Gesserit. (Please note here that I have not read any of the sequels to "Dune", so I only speak in regards of the first book.)

      In fact, most of sci-fi doesn't actually explain things any better than fantasy. Take "Ender's Game" for example. How is the technology used there (especially the ansible) actually different from magic? "We got it from the aliens and it breaks both current scientific theories as well as empirical evidence" isn't really a good explanation to my mind. Technobabble does not science make.

      Of the books I have mentioned here, I love all of them. They tell great stories no matter whether they are set in the past or in the future or how well they describe their changes to the world we live in. A good story will work even if something happens by magic and a bad one will fall apart no matter how carefully the workings of the hyperdrive are explained.

    123. Re:Where was this class for me? by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      We could assess my bona fides but if you assume I am insincere then I don't imagine any evidence will suffice.

      Your sincerity was never in question. I merely suggested your definition for prude and "religious nutjob" didn't quite mesh with that of most who complain about such people.

      his point seemed ... hyperbolic -- i.e. oooh, the religious right taking legal action against teachers who have their students read Starship Troopers or Ringworld or the Lensman for the rampent sex scenes. Surely there are men with less straw in them. Does he really think religious conservatives are so prudish or did a better example (e.g. Ian Banks, Guy Gavriel Kay, Tannith Lee or other authors of the grimly dark or erotic) just not spring to mind?

      That goes back to your point about applying labels to people, I suppose. "Religious conservatives" really fall in a spectrum, and there are those that would take issue with Heinlein. After all, we had certain church groups out burning Harry Potter books a few years ago. You want to include yourself in the category of people Lumpy's complaining about, but from what you've told me, I don't think you are. I think his mistake was saying that "most parents freak out." It's not really most parents, but a small vocal minority of idiots tends to win against the apathetic bunch. All it takes are a few unreasonable people.

      I appreciate the sentiment, but I find that how people are judged often depends on the order of presented evidence. Were I to have led off my response by talking about (e.g.) the type of language, media, activities I allow in my house ... well, I wonder if you'd say the same.

      It's your house, so yes, I would say the same. I'm extremely socially liberal, but I don't object to you, or family, or anybody else being as conservative as you'd like. I simply don't believe I have any more right to do that than you have a right to interfere with how I run things in my house. In the example I gave, I wouldn't even have objected to the concerned parent removing the kid from our club. My problem was lobbying to have the entire club shut down.

      I might disagree with your take on quite a lot of things, but as long as you're not trying to affect me with your beliefs, then you're just doing what you believe is right for your family, and that makes you a good parent in my book. You most certainly have a right to do things I disagree with, and my own personal beliefs about the optimal environment for raising kids are just that: my own personal beliefs. I don't believe I'm more "right" than you are, I'll simply raise my kids differently than you.

      That said, if you're in Spanish class, you should be learning Spanish, not watching Scrubs. I'm not sure how this is a "conservative" vs. "liberal" view. I would certainly have objected myself, and as I've said, I'm extremely liberal.

      Oh well. I guess my point, assuming I have one, is that once you apply a pejorative label to a person, they become varelse and it becomes impossible to grok them.

      In the end, you're right that pejorative labels are counter-productive, and once you place someone in a category, you cease listening to what they're trying to say and automatically assume they're wrong. That said, if you take a look at the list of challenged books for 2007-2008, you'd find that objections were raised for novels significantly milder than anything Lumpy mentioned, so you shouldn't ignore his point merely because you feel the term "moronic prude" includes people who may not necessarily be deserving of the title.

      Out of curiosity, are there any novels / any type of content that you would try to ban from the sci-fi literature class? Assuming, of course, that critical analysis and discussion is being performed on the novel, and they're not just being tested on whether or not they've read it.

    124. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technology is magic for a generation of people who are too jaded to willingly suspend their disbelief.

    125. Re:Where was this class for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Arthur C. Clarke said more than once in his books that, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

      I took a class like this in high school in 96. It could be that prevailing attitudes about a class like this are that both science fiction and fantasy are worthless genres unworthy of diverting enough classroom resources to make -two- classes. I say this because a lot of the other English/Literature teachers in my high school felt this way. I disagree with that; if it weren't for sci-fi and fantasy I probably would never have bothered reading books at all.

      Heinlein is a suggestion I've seen from a few people that contains a lot of potent messages about our world (I loved Stranger In a Strange Land, myself), but I think any Heinlein novel will be shot down by censors, be they academic or parental.

    126. Re:Where was this class for me? by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      Agreed. For short stories try Asimov (Particularly "The Last Question"), Heinline, Wyndham. Not sure what to suggest for fantasy but Fritz Leiber's "The thieves of Lankmar" would be a good place to start also you could chuck in some Pratchet but as this is a lit class you probably wan't some Walter Scott.
      HTH

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    127. Re:Where was this class for me? by plastbox · · Score: 1

      I always wanted stuff explained, both in fiction and in life. "It's magic" never worked for me.

      Then you should read Wheel of Time by the late Robert Jordan. "Magic" (his own personal twist) plays a central but not all-overshadowing role and is treated much like a science by the characters. I agree that magic ala "I cast lvl2 Fireball which drains my mana a bit" is boring. Compare to WoT where the characters have to learn/discover and practice different weaves consisting of "threads" of any of the traditional 5 elements, or Brandon Sanderson's Warbreaker (free download on his website) and it's Awakeners, who collect "Breath" bought from the poor and use it for awakening things. Both Jordan and Sanderson have made their "magic" systems rather "sciency".

      By the way, do you like Tolkien because of the way magic works in his works, or despite it? I feel he hints almost continuously at incredibly strong magic but never do you see any direct application of it in the traditional sense. No fireballs, no summonings or banishings, just people like Fëanor, Fingolfin and Gandalf who's spirits were so strong the very strength of their will could change things. Gandalf didn't cast "Flame Barrier of Anor lvl 17", he simply stated with all the force of his spirit, that the Balrog was not allowed to pass. Not much of a systemized, logical magic system there, yet you mention Tolkien as someone who explains stuff.

    128. Re:Where was this class for me? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      By the way, do you like Tolkien because of the way magic works in his works, or despite it?

      Both, actually. The "magic" in his books feels more like technology, but had a lesser writer written The Hobbit I'd probably hate it. Mostly, though, Tolkien (and Pratchet) are excellent reads. Pratchet seems to be making fun of the genre.

    129. Re:Where was this class for me? by plastbox · · Score: 1

      I'm inclined to disagree that the magic in the works of Tolkien feels like technology (the beauty if "feeling" things, eh? We are both right!). Technology, to me, implies utility and while Gandalf's fireworks (and Sauron's abuse thereof) are certainly "Wizard domain", it's not magic. Magic is when Gandalf battles the Balrog, or when he is sent back with his proper rank. This part of the magic is never explained in any logical fashion. Valar, Maiar and Elves simply have the power of spirit to do things the lesser races cannot comprehend, much as us humans have hands and can do stuff a snake would be quite puzzled by (assuming any cognitive function =P).

      Aaaanyhow, have you read WoT or any of Brandon Sanderson's work? I hardly ever read anything non-technical until I started the WoT series, then delved into LotR, The Hobbit Children of Hurin and Silmarillion. At the moment, The Hobbit is the only of the books I have only read once. Most highly recommended!

      Namárië, meldan!

  2. Some More Names to Consider by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My reading is (obviously) slanted toward sci-fi over fantasy but here's some more names to consider (in no order): Stanislaw Lem, Assimov, Wells, Philip K. Dick, Orwell, Mary Shelley, H. P. Lovecraft, William Gibson, Charles Stross, Heinlein, Vonnegut, Lois Lowry, Madeleine L'Engle, Larry Niven, Sturgeon, Huxley, Herbert, Stephenson, Douglas Adams, Rand, Anthony Burgess, Philip Jose Farmer, Robert Silverberg, Harry Harrison, Frederick Pohl, Harlan Ellison, Jack Williamson, E.E. Smith and Crichton. While you might feel some of them belong elsewhere (Shelley, Vonnegut, Rand, Orwell) they're still sci-fi/fantasy.

    Um, what were you planning to have them do? What amount of reading per week are you aiming at? 20-30 pages? I realize a lot of the authors (Jordan especially) may be too much to ask.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I second this. Orwell's 1984 should be mandatory reading for all high schoolers.
      .

    2. Re:Some More Names to Consider by bryan1945 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd add Brin & Modesitt. They also have some nice socialogical themes to them.

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    3. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Abreu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I second most of this list, especially Asimov, Dick, Lem

      However, I would not suggest heavily political books to avoid needless controversy, or big doorstoppers that might discourage some kids.

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    4. Re:Some More Names to Consider by nizo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't forget Animal Farm.

    5. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Darby · · Score: 1

      What Modesitt series would you recommend? I read all the Recluce books and liked them (apart from the obsession with describing every part of every meal ;-)

    6. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 2, Funny

      L. Ron Hubbard! He wrote some freaky, over the top science fiction called Scientology.

    7. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      What he said!

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    8. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think I've met a single person my age who hasn't read at least one of those, so I don't think you really need to worry about them, they seem to be covered.

    9. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Minwee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just remember to pick up an untraceable paperback copy. Orwell eBooks have a distressing habit of dropping into the memory hole.

    10. Re:Some More Names to Consider by mcbagpipes · · Score: 1

      I took a course much like this in 3rd year university (although the course was on Speculative Fiction). Shelly's Frankenstein, Stanislaw Lem and William Gibson were all covered. Great course but an intense reading schedule for what was taken as a purely interest course.

    11. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1

      You laugh, but L. Ron Hubbard has 3 books in Modern Library's top 100 reader list:

      3) Battlefield Earth
      9) Mission Earth
      10) Fear

      Anybody (myself included) who's read anything L. Ron Hubbard wrote would question the legitimacy of that list, because LRH writes like a short-bus driver who writes instruction manuals for "special" adults.

    12. Re:Some More Names to Consider by wurp · · Score: 1

      If you want to be taken at all seriously, Vonnegut and Orwell are a must.

      Jack Vance had an amazing vocabulary, and is probably worth putting on the list. Much of his stuff (Dying Earth) seems to be science fiction and swords & sorcery type fantasy simultaneously, which is an interesting trick, too.

    13. Re:Some More Names to Consider by jamstar7 · · Score: 1
      H Beam Piper for his Future History series (including the Fuzzy novels as well as Star Viking & Uller Uprising). Spent a lot of time over the years reading and rereading these.

      Cordwainer Smith for the Instrumentality Of Man series. These stories have dated well.

      Harry Kuttner for various reasons. He didn't date well, but he still told a great tale.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    14. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MOD PARENT UP!

      OT III is an *excellent* choice. It's the Scientology doctrine that shows the world it's actually a UFO cult.

      You might want to make sure your students have health insurance; OT III has been suggested to cause pneumonia and death.

      http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/

    15. Re:Some More Names to Consider by afidel · · Score: 1

      I love Assimov but feel it's more junior high level than junior/senior year level. Heinlein and Vonnegut are great for that age group as are some of the others on your list. As to your suggestion of 20-30 pages per week, you have to be kidding! That's more like the daily reading requirement for any English class I was ever in.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    16. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another great book that is often overlooked is The Forever War by Joe Haldeman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War, I would probably not include any of his other works, but The Forever Was is fantastic. It is especially relevant today with the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    17. Re:Some More Names to Consider by spiffmastercow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed, along with Brave New World, just to get the other side of the dystopia spectrum covered.

    18. Re:Some More Names to Consider by rho · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Octavia E. Butler and Samuel Delany as well.

      --
      Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
    19. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Zerth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Clifford Simak would be a good one for the 40/50's. Most of his sci-fi is rural/laid-back and while his heros are like cardboard, his aliens have depth.

      Goblin Reservation is a sci-fi/fantasy mashup where somebody has to solve his own murder in a future where time-travel is used to settle educational disputes and science has found where fantasy creatures were hiding.

      The Visitors covers our interaction with incomprehensible aliens that turn trees into easy to drive flying saucers, ruining the autoindustry. It isn't a trade, they eat cellulose and literly shit cars with idiot-proof antigravity.

    20. Re:Some More Names to Consider by rcolbert · · Score: 0

      Scientology was established as a very tongue-in-cheek 'religion' in order to work the tax code. Nothing more. The only problem, is that if the IRS ever can prove that Scientology is in fact not a religion, then all the tax benefits disappear. I'm not up on Scientology today, nor do I care to be. I'm sure there are some fine people within the Scientology community who are not 'in on the joke' so to speak. In any case, I tip my hat to Mr. Hubbard for sticking it to the IRS with deadpan delivery of the absurd.

    21. Re:Some More Names to Consider by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 3, Insightful

      80s-90s represent: Greg Bear, David Brin, Gregory Benford, Vernor Vinge, Robert Charles Wilson, Michael Swanwick, Dan Simmons, Charles Sheffield, Nancy Kress, Kim Stanley Robinson

    22. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Tanktalus · · Score: 1

      It's not whether they were read or not, it's whether they were critically analysed, evaluating our current situation against the utopia/dystopia in the book (sometimes both at the same time), to see what the author is claiming about our own world through his/her fictional one. It's supposed to take the way students read books, even fictional ones, and turn it upside down, from pure entertainment to philosophy, excersising their brain, and, hopefully, turn them into critical thinkers about everything they read, hear, or say.

      So, yes, 1984 simply cannot be overlooked for a class like this. In fact, HHGTTG would be a challenging book for such a course - to be able critique the book despite its humour, and analyse the dystopia that is presented therein against the backdrop of our real world.

    23. Re:Some More Names to Consider by thisisaccount2 · · Score: 1

      As(I assume the misspelling was intentional)imov's writing is FAR above junior high level in today's schools. I finished a lit course two years ago (high school, senior year) in which few people could read the dust jacket of a Heinlein book.
      That said, Heinlein and some of Asimov's better stuff (he wrote 300+ stories, there should be SOMETHING) sound perfect.

    24. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Ronald+Dumsfeld · · Score: 1
      I'd definitely go with this list. Two names that I'd pick out are:
      • Philip K. Dick - Particularly his Hugo winner - The man in the High Castle, or Radio Free Albemuth.
        The first is an alternative reality where the Nazis won. The second is fictional, as if someone worse than Nixon was elected - Nixon heavily influencing Dick's politics.
      • Douglas Adams - The Guide, humour, and a particularly cynical way of looking at the world. I'd actually say, go for the radio scripts there - possibly the TV series. The latter for the talking entries from the electronic book decades before Wikipedia.
      --
      Where's the Kaboom?
      There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
    25. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Glaring omission: Greg Bear!

    26. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Iron+Condor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      [...] here's some more names to consider (in no order): Stanislaw Lem, Assimov, Wells, Philip K. Dick,[...]

      etc.

      I think this is exactly the wrong approach.

      Sit your pupils down in day one class one and talk about sci-fi. Every one of them is bound to know at least one or two. Some will know a lot. Let them suggest things and justify their selections. That process alone will teach them something about literature. In the end be prepared to go with a couple things that came from them that aren't precisely what you would have picked but allow you to get your curriculum through. Allow one thing you don't already know yourself to force yourself to do actual analytical work yourself instead of just regurgitating something you've already done to death a million times before.

      Pick one thing yourself that you think complements/contrasts their choices (ideally someone NOT on the parent's list of sf clichees). Show them how/when/where it does so.

      I am willing to bet this'll make more neurons spark than a pre-set list of well-worn sci-fi authors.

      --
      We're all born with nothing.
      If you die in debt, you're ahead.
    27. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Dahamma · · Score: 3, Insightful

      However, I would not suggest heavily political books to avoid needless controversy, or big doorstoppers that might discourage some kids.

      On the contrary, I would use whatever metric is used in any other literature class as to the content, length, or difficulty of the novel. The main reason this post is interesting to slashdotters is that someone is trying to acknowledge sci-fi and fantasy is just as worth studying in an academic environment as other literary works. If that's true, it should be treated the same way, and not tailored to suit political sensitivities or short attention spans.

    28. Re:Some More Names to Consider by morari · · Score: 3, Interesting

      H.P. Lovecraft. I don't think that can be stressed enough. He is so often times overlooked or pigeonholed into the same horror category as Poe, but he really did help to lay alot of the foundation for good science fiction. His later works are especially of a cosmic scale, where ancient occult gods are nothing more than misunderstood alien entities. Some stories are much more obvious in their influence however, such as At the Mountains of Madness and certainly The Shadow Out of Time.

      I certainly think that the major "dystopian" novels should be covered as well, such as 1984, Brave New World, and maybe even Stranger in a Strange Land.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    29. Re:Some More Names to Consider by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

      +1 List FTW!

      Seriously, SF / F is so beautiful if you have to "pick" as an instructor, you end up with 7 different classes. That's practically a minor in college.

      I'll go Bird's Eye and say why I tend not to care for classic high fantasy. You get world class mages but no one is allowed a watch and a calculator. The only fantasy I like is PostModern where some twist takes it out of 14th century Europe.

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    30. Re:Some More Names to Consider by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      I would absolutely suggest heavily political books, as long as they are well written examples of science fiction and fantasy.

      There's a difference between needlessly stirring up controversy by recommending shitty books with a stupidly heavy-handed political/religious agenda to students, and encouraging discussion by having students read thoughtful books that may provide alternative viewpoints to what many students have been exposed to (whatever they are).

      I'd avoid the gigantic books (pretty much anything but Snowcrash by Stephenson, for example) not because they're discouraging, but because let's face it, kids won't read the whole thing because they have 80 other things going on in any given day, and very large reads that are worth assigning deserve better than the 30 minutes at best the kids will be able to give 'em.

      One of my nephews was recently in a sci-fi/fantasy class at his high school aimed at seeing how literature explores various key themes, and in this case the focus was on religious vs. secular attitudes. Half of the parents were enraged when the kids were given the "Left Behind" books to read, the other half were enraged when the kids were given "Revolt in 2100" by Heinlein. Personally, I was just disgusted that they couldn't think of books that were well written, but I absolutely think the discussion that it sparked was an important one.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    31. Re:Some More Names to Consider by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 5, Funny

      I absolutely adore Lovecraft. However, I'd save him for a specialty class, probably a college level class. His fecund verbosity overpowers my even my most perspicacious tendency, rendering opaque the once-transparent word hoards of narrators across the visages of time, sending my love of storytelling into the blissful quiet of a new dark age.

      Seriously. Yuck.

    32. Re:Some More Names to Consider by ArmchairGeneral · · Score: 1

      There's a few names in there I'm not familiar with, I have to thank you for providing me with some additional potential material. Cheers.

    33. Re:Some More Names to Consider by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      It's a literature class. The whole point is the controversy. Or at least, the point of many of the books was. You can't avoid it and still have a meaningful class.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    34. Re:Some More Names to Consider by elfprince13 · · Score: 1

      You're pretty blatantly missing Jules Verne, Orson Scott Card, C.S. Lewis, Tolkien, Anne McCaffrey.

    35. Re:Some More Names to Consider by dishpig · · Score: 1

      Well, to be taken seriously, you'd need to ignore the fact that it's a high school lit class. It's tough to say what to choose, since a good lit class should have a 'theme' other than two broad genres. I'd focus on novels / stories that are plot-driven and had more to offer - things that could provide insight into literary trends / techniques.

      Orwell is taught anyway in mainstream lit (at least when I was in high school) so I'd pass on him.

      I'd second Vance, especially The Eyes of the Overworld / Cugel the Clever. It's a great modern picaresque.

      Vonnegut certainly. Hard to say which I'd choose. Probably stay predictable and go with Slaughterhouse Five. He employs some interesting narrative tricks.

      It's too bad the Gormenghast novels are prohibitive in length - they're some of the finest fantasy written and avoid the typical genre cliches.

    36. Re:Some More Names to Consider by dpilot · · Score: 1

      I always liked Simak - I once heard him referred to as "science fiction's pastoral author."

      Many good stories, but as long as you're talking of Simak's absurd, "They Walked Like Men". Where else can you have aliens who look like bowling balls and freak out in exstasy over skunk scent?

      Roger Zelazny's "Doorways in the Sand" was another good title for the absurd.

      Absurdity has its place, including science fiction. It would probably be good to at least touch on it with even a short story. There's no shortage of absurd short story collections, such as Clarke's "Tales of the White Hart", the "Calahan's Crosstime Saloon" series, etc.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    37. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe start with children's books then.. has anything by Tais Teng (NL) been translated into english?

    38. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Traze · · Score: 1

      Personally, I'd recommend Archform: Beauty, and the 2nd book in that universe, Flash. Also, The Eternity Artifact is good.

    39. Re:Some More Names to Consider by steelfood · · Score: 1

      That incident never happened. Says so right here in my shiny new Kindle. Oooh, shiny...

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    40. Re:Some More Names to Consider by ghmh · · Score: 1

      Your next assignment should you choose to accept it is to write a few sentences of discordian diatribe on the works of Robert Anton Wilson.

      Hail Eris

    41. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Lil'wombat · · Score: 1

      ADIAMANTE. Best Book Ever.

      --

      Truth: If it's not one thing, it's another

    42. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Zerth · · Score: 1

      Where else the alien bowling ball?

      Glory Lane, by Alan Dean Foster.

      An 80's punk bumps into an alien that likes bowling, as the ball, when it isn't pretending to be jewelry so as to cop a feel. Threatened by the melting of his brain head(been there, done that), he and a few others end up on a galactic chase leading to the potential destruction of the universe, the discovery that neanderthals are considered our more civilized cousins, and that shopping is the most important thing, like, ever.

      Except maybe that humor is a scientifically provable cosmological constant. If it weren't for the fact that it'd get ruined, this should so be made into a movie.

    43. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Accordion+Noir · · Score: 1

      Octavia Butler would be a key (and mind-altering) example of one black woman's perspective on cultural as different from "hard" sf. I'd start with the Patternist series (available in one book) which blew my mind.

      Ursula LeGuin would be a great one too.

      And Native Tongue by Suzette Haden Elgin, for it's handling of created language as resistance.

      And for gosh-sakes the more-recent Perdido Street Station by China Miéville would surely be memorable, as would John C. Wright's Golden Age, the great hyper-punk masterpiece.

      --
      "Ruthlessly pursuing the idea that the accordion is just another instrument."
    44. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I realize you're being funny, but I'm interpreting your comment as a criticism of Lovecraft.

      I was bothered by his convoluted language after first reading it, but after picking it up again several years later, I've changed my mind.

      The key, I realized is that Lovecraft is trying to convey fear. Not anxiety--brooding, perseverative--but fear--acute, pitched, severe.

      In almost any other case, the language Lovecraft uses would fail, but to me it has the effect of someone trying to convey the most horrid, awful, mind-shattering terror that you can experience--in fact, something beyond imagining. The narrator can't do this, of course, but the closest they come is by using extremely formal, dramatic language.

      To me, it works, because it's conveying an emotional state that has pitched, dramatic qualities. That conveyance of fear or trauma--as opposed to anxiety or dread--is what distinguishes Lovecraft from other writers in my mind. Other writers convey what you might experience as you're walking up to the haunted house, thinking about it; Lovecraft conveys what you feel when you're in the house, seeing clearly the thing that is causing you to run in terror.

    45. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the same vein as Lovecraft, I think it's worth discussing how comics managed to bring sci-fi and fantasy to a younger generation. Keep it in proper context as pop culture, but give it at least some recognition. Tales from the Crypt, Fantastic Four, and others made science and the surreal a topic worth discussing for many generations to come.

    46. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Frank Herbert's short stories. Michael Moorcock wrote a plethora of short books all tying in on a singular main character. Stephen King's Darktower series. Stephen Donaldson's Gap series. HP Lovecraft is a tough read for some though.

    47. Re:Some More Names to Consider by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Indeed, along with Brave New World, just to get the other side of the dystopia spectrum covered.

      Why stop there? Also read Bellamy's Looking Backward, which was written in the late 1800s about a far futuristic society (the Year 2000!) Unlike BNW or 1984, it was generally positive. Why is it sci-fi? Even from that far remove, he was able to accurately predict a lot of our advancements, like being able to listen to music in your house remotely, without needing someone live playing it for you, the culture of going out to eat, women's rights, and a lot of other things.

      He did get wrong the communism and changes in money.

      Just as fascinating to look back on now as it is to read it from the POV of a person reading it when it was published in 1888.

    48. Re:Some More Names to Consider by js_sebastian · · Score: 1

      I second this. Orwell's 1984 should be mandatory reading for all high schoolers. .

      Agreed. It may not be the best novel ever in terms of character development, etc, but IMHO it is up there with Freud's interpretation of dreams in being one of those world-view shaping books of the modern age that everyone should read. I also find the whole utopian/dystopian thread rather interesting... but if that were the focus of the class a lot of other books could be included, from Gulliver's travels to Le Guin's "The Dispossessed".

    49. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Terminus32 · · Score: 0

      I'll second that! Lovecraft is a major influence on modern horror & science fiction, even fantasy too. The Shadow Out Of Time is one of the finest pieces of weird fiction i've read, it strays more into the science fiction category rather than horror for which Lovecraft is generally associated with.

      I'm reading William Gibson's Neuromancer at the moment, very interesting read.....would be good if the kids read that one too. There's so much great literature out there, it's hard to decide...!

      --
      http://nathanlindsell.blogspot.com/
    50. Re:Some More Names to Consider by lunaorion · · Score: 1

      I'd like to tack on M. T. Anderson's "Feed." It's a great dystopia novel that I would hope will resonate with tech consumed kids, who think nothing of baring their lives online for convenience's/peer's sake, without a thought as to who else might be reading & collecting that information. It is a great intro to Brave New World, if you choose to include Huxley. Also, selecting books solely based on genre is imho quite broad-- I'd recommend selecting an interesting theme that could be teased out of everything you read over the course of the semester. For example, in a 19th C. English Literature class I took, the overarching theme was social & natural evolution. We read the Origin of Species, and then studied how that influenced/created the zeitgeist. The professor didn't come out and directly say, "Here is your theme," but by encouraging critical reading, we discovered it on our own.

    51. Re:Some More Names to Consider by DeanProcter · · Score: 1

      I would probably let the students pick and justify their selections and get a short list.
      The history of science fiction goes back to H.P. Lovecraft's own book collection. I believe he was greatly influenced by, as were many young students who grew up to write the first Sci-fi back earlier in the 1600's - Robert Wittie's Star Wars - written specifically to stimulate the minds of students and open their eyes to the heavens.
      The book in question was both a paper to the Royal Society - 'A Survey of the Heavens' a serious work with chapters such as 'The verification of the (recent) Copernican Hypothesis' to 'The Probability of Other Inhabited worlds'. At the end of the rare copy I own is the story 'Astromaxia' or 'Star Wars'. Lovecraft's copy is I believe at Yale. It also contains several things that might make you think of George Lucas's Star Wars plot, but I don't know if Lucas ever read it.
      I find it quite grounding to realise that nearly 400 years ago sci-fi was alive and well.

      I believe it is available on microfilm at some Universities but if you have difficulty I could perhaps provide you with a digital copy.

    52. Re:Some More Names to Consider by DragonFodder · · Score: 1

      Robert A Heinlein, if you leave him out, you would leave out one of the most insightful writers of the 20th century "real world".

      Quotes from his books have stuck with me for years. This one in particular has been a favorite, and is especially inspirational at election times.

      "Secrecy is the keystone to all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy and censorship. When any government or church for that matter, undertakes to say to it's subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man who has been hoodwinked in this fashion; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, whose mind is free. No, not the rack nor the atomic bomb, not anything. You can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
      Robert A. Heinlein

      --
      Wherever you go... There you are. B.B.
    53. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I suspect it is only evidence of Scientology's ability to stuff a ballot box.

    54. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Alsee · · Score: 1

      [aliens that] eat cellulose and literly shit cars with idiot-proof antigravity.

      I'm not a big fan of fantasy, especially really really bad fantasy.
      Ghosts, goblins, technology capable of utterly defeating idiots.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    55. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My daughter is having to read 10-20 pages a day for 11th grade Honors English. I hope it doesn't turn her off to reading (especially with Faulkner coming up). But I took an existential reading class in High School and emerged as a still avid reader.

    56. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Bat+Country · · Score: 1

      I think the absolutely vital reading, assuming a one semester course would have to include:

      • Jules Verne, Master of the World - a projection of materials technology, social trends along with the naivety with which he and his contemporaries viewed the development of weapons technology.
      • Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy; not a projection of the future so much as a commentary on the present, he successfully lampoons western society, thumbs his nose at creationism and big bang theory alike and brings the lot together in a brilliant ironic work.
      • Isaac Asimov, Foundation - A brilliant social commentary as well as a sane prediction of future technology along with the naive approach to artificial intelligence common to his time
      • William Gibson, Neuromancer - Neuromancer is a cynical dystopian view of the future of computer technology and, beyond that, human interaction with both machines and other humans.
      --
      The land shall stone them with the bread of his son.
    57. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Darby · · Score: 1

      Cool, I'll check those out....just remembered I have read The Eternity Artifact as well. Pretty cool.

    58. Re:Some More Names to Consider by drenehtsral · · Score: 1

      I would advocate for Riddley Walker

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riddley_Walker

      --

      ---
      Play Six Pack Man. I
    59. Re:Some More Names to Consider by Twyst3d · · Score: 1

      I scanned this whole thread waiting for someone to mention Snow Crash. If it wasnt for Snow Crash I would have no interest in Sci-Fi literature. This will probably be considered a terrible suggestion by most. But, on the fantasy side of things, I would recommend the Prism Pentad by Troy Denning. These are some of my favorite fantasy novels of all time (Id say a tie between this and the Amber Chronicles by Zelazny).

      --
      And this has been another installament of Captain Obvious! /whoosh
    60. Re:Some More Names to Consider by dpilot · · Score: 1

      Read it, but there was so much chaos at the bowling alley scene that I didn't catch that the friendly alien was the ball. And I guess what's-her-name (Miranda?) must have called Seeth a skunk, at some point.

      But you're right, another example of pleasant absurdity.

      It also goes further in my "Theorem of niche science fiction" - "No niche is so small that it doesn't have at least 2 stories crammed into it."

      My favorite example is the vacuum stat, false vacuums, etc. By Joe Haldeman there's "The Forever Peace" and by Greg Egan is "Schild's Ladder". As for frogs and amphibians changing sex under environmental pressure, there's "Jurassic Park" and Niven (and Pournelle?) "The Legacy of Herot". So we now have 2 stories with bowling-ball aliens.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    61. Re:Some More Names to Consider by smchris · · Score: 1

      I don't know that I or the above poster are anti-Lovecraft, but I agree that Lovecraft is "unique." His is not a style I would choose to promote if I were teaching high school students. But neither is James Joyce.

      Influences do influence. I was once so impressed by a paragraph-length sentence in a book by a well-known scholar of Immanuel Kant that I ran it through Grammatik and got "Grade 36." Clearly, Kant devoured that man's brain such that he will never be capable of delivering a Toastmaster's speech again. In a like manner, you don't want other students enfolded by the dark, eldrich horror these sci fi students could emanate like a musty shroud if their tender minds are driven mad by style no teenager's brain should fall witness to, now do you?
       

  3. Fahrenheit 451 by Victor_0x53h · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 is a favorite classic. Science fiction, but easy to read for anyone.

    1. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by Chabil+Ha' · · Score: 1

      Second that. Fahrenheit 451 was one of the first sci-fi books I had read that really baselined my expectations of what sci-fi was supposed to be.

      --
      We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
    2. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by conureman · · Score: 1

      That reminds me of A Clockwork Orange. Is there an unabridged edition available in U.S.? It's a good book for issue discussion, free will and all that.

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    3. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by Dyinobal · · Score: 1

      This book was one of my favorites, anthem too was a really good read when I was in high school. Later after I graduated I learned some rednecks tried to get Fahrenheit 451 banned for language and the fact it offended their fundie christian religion. Thankfully they didn't succeed. I don't think they got the irony of trying to ban a book about book banning.

    4. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by magisterx · · Score: 1

      Definitely. And 1984 should be read right along with it.

      Also, "Cold Equations" made quite an impact on me when I read it more years ago than I care to admit.

    5. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      Maybe A Clockwork Orange had a relevant message about free will when it was written 50 years ago, but reading it in 2009 it's not very compelling. It's a great narrative and a great experiment in language, but it doesn't really have much to say about free will. All I'm saying is that there are better choices.

    6. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 1

      The critique of "Cold Equations" on the web is also useful.

    7. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by conureman · · Score: 1

      It's been about 40 years since I read it, but AFAICR it had a message that is relevant to the Political Correctness thing... Wait, that issue is not really considered much these days, is it. Well, IMO kids need some deprogramming from the groupthink that is imposed on them by TV talking heads, or we will end up in an "Orwellian" world, (Are we there yet?) And 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and A Clockwork Orange are a nice complementary trilogy. I never did get to read it all together, I had the U.S. paperback, and then about ten years later got to read the ending when it was printed in Playboy magazine.

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    8. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by kmassare · · Score: 1

      This one was actually assigned in my High School Junior Year English class in 1962.

    9. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by ghmh · · Score: 1

      Not only that, it's (unfortunately) increasingly becoming more and more relevant.

    10. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fahrenheit 451 is also on the preferred reading list in California for High Schoolers/ Middle Schoolers. So it shouldn't be too hard to get it into your class.

    11. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      Political correctness... Yeah, I can see that. I wouldn't expect high school students to pick up on it though.

    12. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like what?

    13. Re:Fahrenheit 451 by al3 · · Score: 1

      I just finished reading Fahrenheit 451 for the first time. It reminded me a lot of 1984, but didn't terrify me (in a good way) as much. Still, I thought it was a fantastic read and Bradbury's vision of a society lulled by TV into political complacence to be very relevant today, even prophetic.

  4. Dune by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think the books really transcend into life in the 21st century. Plus there's a plethora of movie versions you could show your class.

    1. Re:Dune by Abreu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What do you mean "books"? There is only one Dune book!

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    2. Re:Dune by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I agree that Herbert's Dune is a true masterpiece, not only of the genre, but a true literary masterpiece as well, I'm not sure that it would be a best fit for this type of class for several reasons. First, is length. Unless this is the only class the kids are taking, I think even a quick reader would be hard pressed to read this in under 2 weeks. Secondly, would be the length of time that it would take to dissect the book itself. With the number of themes in it, and the number of plots, subplot, sub-subplots etc, you could easily spend 2-3 weeks discussing this one book, and even then, I don't necessarily know that you will be able to draw direct parallels with contemporary society. Some allegory yes, but not necessarily direct enough for students of all ability. Third, depending on where this class is being offered, those in power may have some trouble with the handling of the religious aspects of it. While religion should be most definitely open to examination and question, putting a book that questions it in the initial reading list for the course could get the course grounded before it even gets off the ground.

    3. Re:Dune by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      What do you mean "books"? There is only one Dune book!

      To be fair, there's the "Dune Cliff's Notes" and other books about the one Dune book. I hear someone made a fanfilm on youtube to see what a Dune movie would look like if it were ever to be made.

      That said, if anyone says the computer game "Dune 2" never exited, you're a loony.

    4. Re:Dune by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      With Dune I think students would get stuck in all the mysticism and allegory. It settles comfortably into Uncanny Valley, being just real enough that the impossible elements serve to annoy instead of intrigue.

    5. Re:Dune by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, like Star Wars.

    6. Re:Dune by aitikin · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ.

      Addressing point one, Huckleberry Finn is about 50 pages shorter than Dune and is mandatory reading (or was at my high school).

      As for dissecting the book itself, we never fully dissected all the points in any books I read in class.

      I know I was brought up in a more open area and as such, I was allowed to read the entire series and do reports on it for an independent lit class which involved everyone talking about their book and discussing it at varying points.

      That all being said, when I had English classes, one of them we were given three books to choose from and worked in smaller groups. We had discussion groups with topics directed by the teacher and quizzes over our individual books. For a course such as this one, that seems like a very good option.

      Back to the original topic, the list is just way too long for me to recommend just one, Asimov should be a must, one of the requirements in an English class my brother took was Childhood's End

      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    7. Re:Dune by infernari · · Score: 1

      The Orange Catholic Bible?

  5. Enders Game... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Enders Game...great story, and will probably leave them thinking a little. Would be good discussion starter.

    1. Re:Enders Game... by Abreu · · Score: 1

      Enders Game...great story, and will probably leave them thinking a little. Would be good discussion starter.

      Yeah, until one scrawny kid tries to kick a bully in the balls to death, inspired by the protagonist, and the teacher ends up fired...

      Nah, just kidding... this is a great choice for teen readers.

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    2. Re:Enders Game... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      For the love of god, no!

    3. Re:Enders Game... by gbarules2999 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Then somebody will bring up Card himself, and then you'll never get the kids to stop yelling at each other.

    4. Re:Enders Game... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All time favorite

    5. Re:Enders Game... by ZmeiGorynych · · Score: 1

      Yeah, just leave the sequels alone.

  6. Whoa.. stop! by Anrego · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Think of the children! PLEASE!

    No offense .. but it sounds like this course is going to be just like most English courses..

    That is.. take an enjoyable experience (i.e. reading a good book) and turn it into a complete chore by over-analysing everything to the point that students shun reading forever.

    Now.. maybe some high school students would enjoy comparing their favorite sci-fi series to the cold war.. or writing a 10 page essay on what the author _REALLY_ meant when he said "John walked briskly across the street".. but I suspect most won't.

    That said.. if this is your intention though.. 1984 is a must. You can (and people have) turn just about any paragraph in that book into a masters thesis.

    1. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. Do NOT, under any circumstances, take whatever books you end up using and tear the fun out of them.

    2. Re:Whoa.. stop! by petes_PoV · · Score: 0

      Well said. SF is about the tech, not the people. it doesn't stand up to literature style critique as the ideas are more important than the language or literary technique / style. if an individual is not interested in tech, they won't be interested in SF so making them read and spend time on it is a bad move.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    3. Re:Whoa.. stop! by rawr_one · · Score: 1

      I believe most high schools teach 1984 in their normal curriculum already, so I don't think it's necessary to put it in this class. It should certainly be mentioned, but I believe Brave New World is probably more appropriate for this class (and, as far as I know, isn't as often taught as 1984 is).

      Also please please please don't ruin Sci-Fi for these kids. Your choices very much so need to allow them to reflect upon the parallels between the worlds of these novels and our own, and traditional high school English courses tend to utterly fail at doing this. Please work as hard as you can to make this one different.

    4. Re:Whoa.. stop! by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      I noticed this as I was reading through a few of Asimov's Foundation books... the prose isn't spectacular, but the whole idea behind the books is so compelling and unusual. And it's not necessarily about technology... the whole idea of "psychohistory" is kind of like a super-advanced version of sociology and political science...

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    5. Re:Whoa.. stop! by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This two-period hybrid full-stop/ellipses you use strikes me as emblematic of your perspective on literature and literary classes.

      No offense .. but it sounds like this course is going to be just like most English courses..

      Well no shit. You go to school to learn, which is Hard Work, not to goof off or be entertained. If students just want to read good books, they can read themselves without taking the class.

      .. or writing a 10 page essay on what the author _REALLY_ meant when he said "John walked briskly across the street"..

      Has that ever really happened? Ever?

      You can (and people have) turn just about any paragraph in that book into a masters thesis

      Likewise, this? Somebody wrote a master's thesis about a *paragraph* from 1984? And even more than one person has done this?

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    6. Re:Whoa.. stop! by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't forget all interpretations much match the teachers own view as well. Nothing spoils someone interest in a topic, when a teacher always tells them what story they got from this abstracted fiction is wrong.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    7. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      SF is about the tech, not the people.

      Technical documents are about current tech. Scientific American is about fictional future-tech. Science-Fiction is about the people living in a "Scientific American" world. If it's not about people, there's no _story_.

    8. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it's not exactly what you ask for. But I will pull a Paul Graham here and just give you a Google link of the kind of thing the OP was talking about ...

      http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=gender+identity+narrative+discourse+transcend

    9. Re:Whoa.. stop! by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      Wrong, wrong and wrong again! You've been missing out, true SF is about the complete future, not simpleton tech books. Have you not ever read Iain Banks, SM Stirling, MM Buckner, Douglas Adams? Geez Louise, dood!!!!

      Your thinking is the direct result of McSoftware (Microsoft) not bundling manuals with their software so those cheap bastards could a billion or two. (Once upon a time, EVERYONE bundled the manuals with the OSes, etc.)

      Now guys like you believe tech manuals ARE sci-fi.

    10. Re:Whoa.. stop! by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >1984 is a must.

      Is it really? Id rather see this in a politics class or an english literature class after theyve been taught enough history to understand what Stalinism was. I think its 99% political and 1% scifi and without the proper polisci background it just is a dystopian tale instead of the critique and dark satire of oppressive communist governments its supposed to be.

    11. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I rather enjoyed mine when I took it as an English elective in High School in Upstate New York... two decades ago. The issued book had short stories from several authors to give us a nice selection and we covered 2001 and The Little Prince as well as several of Asimov's works. Sure you can analyze those works but it doesn't have to be a miserable experience and I read most of the stories in the class text book although we only covered a few of them.

      And I would wholeheartedly disagree with 1984 as required material unless you really do want to make it a miserable experience. That's covered by mainstream High School English anyway and that's more than enough exposure to George Orwell's writing. There's always a distinctly unpleasant undertone to his writing that for some reason I was reminded of when reading the works of both J.K. Rowlings and C.S. Lewis. All three authors leave me somewhat irritated at a subconscious level, and reading them is always a masochistic experience for me.

      In any event there is ample material to draw from in both genres, it's just a matter of filtering out the schlock to get to the good stuff.

    12. Re:Whoa.. stop! by be951 · · Score: 1

      Unless it's about robots.

    13. Re:Whoa.. stop! by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      A lot of us actually like literature classes. I think deconstructing a novel and trying to analyze the themes and imagery is pretty interesting, and in fact enhances the experience of reading a good book. I imagine most people that would sign up for a sci-fi/fantasy literature class would know what they're getting into.

      Don't let your biases ruin the fun for everybody else!

      But back to the original topic, I would stay away from big multi-part epics and stick to short novels and short stories. That way you can cover more ground and give the kids a sampling from a lot of different authors and styles. I would also give out a few handouts that are simply lists of "major" works by a lot of different authors, that way after the class is over anybody interested can dig deeper. One of my English teachers did that often in high school and it opened my eyes to a lot of stuff that I really enjoyed.

    14. Re:Whoa.. stop! by RIAAShill · · Score: 1

      That is.. take an enjoyable experience (i.e. reading a good book) and turn it into a complete chore by over-analysing everything to the point that students shun reading forever.

      This seems to be an overreaction to a request for ideas on what should be part of a sci-fi/fantasy literature course. Students who just want to read sci-fi/fantasy for fun probably do not have to take this course. They can take a regular English course and then read sci-fi/fantasy for fun on the side. But students who take this course should be challenged in some way.

      Perhaps the course should expose them to sci-fi/fantasy literature not circulating among the students' circles of friends. Perhaps they should be able to identify motifs or narrative structures that help define the genres. Or perhaps they should be able to relate the materials to the real world in a way that they didn't think about before.

      But students taking such a course shouldn't leave it without developing something more than the ability to say "I like fun stories." If that's it, then they haven't been challenged and might as well have had the class period off.

      That said.. if this is your intention though.. 1984 is a must. You can (and people have) turn just about any paragraph in that book into a masters thesis.

      Can't disagree with you there. Nineteen Eighty-Four wasn't on my original list, but it should have been. Too many people talk about 1984 without having read it and given it critical thought. It is highly-relevant today on several levels, but many misunderstand or oversimply its relevancy.

    15. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Veggiesama · · Score: 1

      Some of us LIKE to be over-analytical.

      A book by itself is an incomprehensible array of words, symbols, and ideas. It takes a reader to make any sense of the labyrinth. Unlike a secret decoder ring, where you punch in one value and get one (and only one) result, reading a book unravels a whole mess of different results depending on the individual reader.

      Now, of course there are some things that an author tries to push upon the reader, but once that manuscript leaves his hands and hits the printers, it's completely out of his control. For literary purposes, the author is "dead" (in the Nietzschean sense). His work is at the mercy of the publisher, critics, the media, English teachers, PTA moms, and twelve year old kids.

      So we're left with the individual reader to determine what significance a work of literature has. That may not seem very interesting, but each reader brings a new set of ideologies and experiences to the table. We disseminate these experiences through classroom discussions and formal papers. The "fun" part about being over-analytical with literature is discussing, debating, arguing, bringing in outside sources to help clarify a paradoxical passage, etc.

      Kind of like the comments section on Slashdot.

    16. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .. or writing a 10 page essay on what the author _REALLY_ meant when he said "John walked briskly across the street"..

      Has that ever really happened? Ever?

      google "my mother is a fish"

      I'm still scarred from this 20 years later.

    17. Re:Whoa.. stop! by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      If it's not about people, there's no _story_.

      Yes, there is.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    18. Re:Whoa.. stop! by selven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well no shit. You go to school to learn, which is Hard Work, not to goof off or be entertained. If students just want to read good books, they can read themselves without taking the class.

      School's main purpose is learning, not boredom. Learning without boredom is the optimum, the goal we should be working toward.

      Has that ever really happened? Ever?

      It's called hyperbole. It's a literary device.

      The point the GP is making, and one that I agree with, is that if you make something boring in school, people will treat it as such in life. Teach a boring biology class, you are robbing two dozen students of curiosity for the wonders of living organisms. Teach a boring math class, you create people who think they can make money off the casinos. Teach a boring English class, your students will never willingly pick up a book again.

    19. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anrego · · Score: 2, Insightful

      .. or writing a 10 page essay on what the author _REALLY_ meant when he said "John walked briskly across the street"..

      Has that ever really happened? Ever?

      Hell yes! Ok.. maybe slight bit of hyperbole (ehe.. that tickled) but when I was in high school we tore "The Great Gatsby" apart line by line. The teacher we had could take just about any poor innocent sentence and explain how it was actually a metaphor for the fall of the American dream and the prevalence of materialism in our society. I honestly think if Scott Fitzgerald had sat in on one of these classes.. he would have laughed his ass off.

      This two-period hybrid full-stop/ellipses you use strikes me as emblematic of your perspective on literature and literary classes.

      My half-hearted ellipsis are practically a signature .. been using them for literally decades .. kind of my own little way of railing against the system :(

      Well no shit. You go to school to learn, which is Hard Work, not to goof off or be entertained. If students just want to read good books, they can read themselves without taking the class.

      I don't think this is necessary. I know I sound like some drugged up elementary teacher before (s)he has had the enthusiasm sucked out by "the system".. but learning can be effective _and_ fun. You don't need to suck all the life out of a book to analyze it.

    20. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While this sort of thing can be done well in theory, I did have a rather unpleasant experience with it in college. I took a "Survey of Sci-fi short stores" course, understanding that we would be doing analysis of the stories, not just reading them, but the interpretations the professor had of the stories were uniformly one-dimensional and specious.
      I remember one story in particular where a parade made its way past the home where the events of the story took place. My overall interpretation of this story was that the characters were rebelling against an extremely socialist society where they were taken care of no matter what they did. (The main characters started a fad where people using anti-gravity belts pretended to be birds, causing massive confusion among straight-laced suburbanites) The professor on the other hand was convinced that the characters were rebelling against *fascism* due to the parade at the start of the story, where people wore.... boots! [sarcasm]You understand of course that anyone *marching* while wearing *boots* must be supporting a fascist regime.[/sarcasm] Not only was every story we studied about Fascism (according to the professor), but the professor would SHOUT DOWN anyone with a differing point of view.
      In the end, the class I looked forward to the most in my college career was the one that was the least fun (narrowly edging out "writing for engineers").

    21. Re:Whoa.. stop! by crazyjimmy · · Score: 1

      If it's not about people, there's no _story_.

      Yes, there is.

      When will you learn that Jovian's are people too? :)

    22. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      People don't change. The whole point of science fiction as a genre distinct from normal fiction is the changed setting. It doesn't have to be tech - it can be a cool environment - but if it's just about people then it's just fiction.

    23. Re:Whoa.. stop! by lawpoop · · Score: 1

      Hell yes! Ok.. maybe slight bit of hyperbole (ehe.. that tickled) but when I was in high school we tore "The Great Gatsby" apart line by line. The teacher we had could take just about any poor innocent sentence and explain how it was actually a metaphor for the fall of the American dream and the prevalence of materialism in our society. I honestly think if Scott Fitzgerald had sat in on one of these classes.. he would have laughed his ass off.

      This is a fun myth, where a tyrannical and illegitimate expert gets shown up by the legitimate expert, who is actually aligned with the victim of the tyrant -- a kind of Robin Hood story, where King Richard, the Just Ruler, returns and deposes terrible Sheriff, who had persecuted the good Robin Hood.

      I don't think Fitzgerald would have laughed at the class. Wikipedia says this about Fitzgerald in Princeton University: "There he became friends with future critics and writers Edmund Wilson (Class of 1916) and John Peale Bishop (Class of 1917), and wrote for the Princeton Triangle Club." Hm, hanging out with writers and critics... !

      When you look at the lives of these authors, you find that they're steeped in this "lit crit" culture that you feel sucks the life out of literature. In fact, it's what creates great literature, the books you enjoy reading. It's kind of like learning about boolean logic to understand video games. I don't need to know it to enjoy the hell out of Megaman, and in fact, if I dislike math, it's actually tedious and the relationship isn't immediately obvious. Literature analysis sucks the fun out of reading for some people, for others, it's an incredible process to 'peer under the hood' of how storytelling functions. To each his own.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    24. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      Forgive us for writing conversationally instead of composing brilliantly-punctuated prose for your reading pleasure

    25. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Brian+Edwards · · Score: 1

      I nominate two Heinlein stories that may be of interest to teens:

      The Rolling Stones
      link
      "The Stones, a family of "Loonies" (residents of the Moon), buy a used spaceship (which by this time is less complicated than a car), overhaul it, and go sightseeing around the solar system."

      And for the more advanced class, discuss the political layer of The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
      Link
      "...a 1966 science fiction novel by American writer Robert A. Heinlein, about a lunar colony's revolt against rule from Earth. The novel expresses and discusses libertarian ideals in a speculative context, yet portrays the need for a powerful governing computer to control many aspects of the society."

    26. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Id rather see this in a politics class or an english literature class

      Well said. Every high school student should read 1984 as a warning against oppressive governments in general, but it really has no place in a specialized class like this one.

      And it's not necessarily about technology

      Also true. Pamela Sargent called SF a "literature of ideas," and she was right: it is a sense of awe that people are after when they read SF.

    27. Re:Whoa.. stop! by lawpoop · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Forgive us for writing conversationally instead of composing brilliantly-punctuated prose for your reading pleasure

      Conversationally!? What does ".." sound like? You use it in conversation?

      Dude, it's a piece punctuation op just made up. It's not a mistake, they used it over and over again in places where conventional punctuation would have been just fine. Communication breaks down when parties introduce symbols that aren't shared ;)

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    28. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Z34107 · · Score: 1

      Has that ever really happened? Ever?

      Anecdote: Never in HIGH SCHOOL. My high school "literature" classes gave homework assignments involving poster board and markers. Some overachievers used glitter.

      In college, that is exactly what every literature class was about, in English and Spanish, although OP was being sarcastic about his "John walks across the street" example. Lots of essay questions on "how is xyz a symbol of foo and bar." Or better yet, "What does the author really mean?" with an implicit "according to my nutjob worldview" attached at the end.

      Some parts were useful - learning some technical language lets me argue about movies better, for example - but look up some literature stuff on Google Scholar, or even the "literature-y" parts of Wikipedia. It's abysmal. Depressing. Awful.

      Although you could write a whole book about "Who is John Galt?" ^_^

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    29. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I strongly disagree! I took a sci-fi comparative lit course last semester, and I found it very interesting despite being very out of my element - I'm a mechanical engineering student. Our focus in that class was really not on the technology at all, because the reality is that, in most science fiction, the technology takes a sideline. The meat of the story is very rarely in the gadgets - because, frankly, that would be boring. It always winds up being about the people. I'd love to elaborate more, but the words aren't coming; I'm really no literature student.

      And if you really think that literary technique and style is never important in science fiction, read some William Gibson and get back to me (or your nearest Anonymous Coward).

    30. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No! Animal farm is the one about Stalinism. Of the two main characters (pigs) one (Snowball) represents Lenin and the ideals of communism while another (Napoleon) represents Stalin's ruthless rise to power while pretending to care for the workers (horses and other animals). It is a brilliant analogy of the corruption of communism.

      1984, on the other hand, contains a party which, in one of the most memorable episodes explains how they have risen above the immature idealogies of the past (including communism and facism) by controlling power for the sake of power itself.

      Both are outstanding and easily readable. If I'd read them at school I'd have had a love of literature from an earlier age. For a class that includes many books, I'd choose AF, simply because its much shorter.

      (+4 insightful must be the number of moderators who have read neither!)

      RM

    31. Re:Whoa.. stop! by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      I had it in high school. I remember sitting through a week of lectures on Kafka's metamorphosis where the fact that the apartment had 4 rooms off of a central area was used to fuel the teacher's Gregor as Christ interpretation. I even had teachers argue that it doesn't really matter whether the author actually meant something or not, so long as people reading ti later think he might have meant it.

      I'm firmly convinced that 99% of literature analysis is pure bunk- that the author's didn't have any hidden meaning. And 100% of books are far more enjoyable when read that way.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    32. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      So wait, you're proposing to only have science fiction that doesn't raise cause us to ask questions about our society's direction? So what, you want all of the books read to be meaningless action with lasers, warpdrives and space wars that affect us in no way shape or form? Bah! I saw Bah! When I saw this article, my mind first went to those kinds of scifi books as well and laughed at the exercise. But when I actually looked at peoples suggestions to find good quality books like 1984, Fahrenheit 451, etc. I remembered that the good science fiction is not often remembered as science fiction at all, its just remembered as good literature.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    33. Re:Whoa.. stop! by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Au contraire (thanks 7th grade French for teaching me that phrase)

      If it's taught well, that is. Make it clear to kids that having opinions about the stuff you read is important, that they aren't too stupid to understand it, and that the knowledge they gain from reading and interpreting this stuff will inform the rest of their lives. I still have memories of my discussions in a course about Beowulf.

      As for what to read, I suggest looking at Hugo winners, many of which can be found in Isaac Asimov's brilliantly titled anthology The Hugo Winners. In fact, if you have to choose an anthology reader in order to keep a curriculum committee happy, I'd choose that one. The older volumes in particular have some classics and an interesting mix of authors, styles, and subject matter.

      And I thoroughly disagree with the idea that SF is about technology. It isn't: It's nearly always about people, pulled into a completely different environment perhaps, but people nonetheless. Even the "aliens" aren't so much completely alien as they are an aspect of people blown way out of proportion in order to examine it and make a point about it.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    34. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Hatta · · Score: 1

      You go to school to learn, which is Hard Work, not to goof off or be entertained.

      Then why are there English classes? I sure as hell couldn't tell you anything I learned from English class after 8th grade (other than that literature analysis is a load of bullshit), when we stopped learning grammar and spelling and started analyzing literature.

      Has that ever really happened? Ever?

      I remember in college my professor asked us "Why did he name this story A & P?". Somehow he expected an answer other than "Because it was set in a grocery store". English classes are about nothing other than reading too much into fiction.

      Likewise, this? Somebody wrote a master's thesis about a *paragraph* from 1984? And even more than one person has done this?

      Probably not, but they could. Some of these people have a real talent for spinning any line into the most elaborate bullshit. Personally, I think if the author wanted to convey a message, he would have come out and said it in plain language. That's what the language is for. If you have to ask what the author really meant, the author wasn't doing his job in communicating effectively.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    35. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't vouch for the above examples, but in 11th grade I did write a 15 page essay on a single paragraph that was less than 200 words. I think it was from Shelley's Frankenstein IIRC--I'm really not positive. I had to do a lot of writing in the years around then and it all kind of blurred together.

      And yes--that left me with the feeling that literary analysis *is* a crock of bullshit.

    36. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Has that ever really happened? Ever?"

      Yes. Yes it has. Have you ever TAKEN an English Lit course before? To be sure, there are some professors that have their shit together, and the course is interesting and enlightening. But I've had some REAL morons... and said morons can take a book and beat the enjoyment out of it. Sure, you can still read it afterwards, but if you were sitting through 50 minutes of class three days a week listening to some stuffed shirt drone on and on (and on and on... and yes, I've been there, too), and you're reminded of that every time you read the book, it'll be less enjoyable an experience.

      Also, I believe the "masters thesis" bit is an expression; I think the GP was driving home the point that the book is rich in its content, and that one paragraph from 1984 can say a LOT.

    37. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Syntax error in sig: Function DoItFaster(Function) is undefined.

    38. Re:Whoa.. stop! by rh775 · · Score: 1

      Stalinism? try 21century "democracy". i recently reread 1984 and was able to draw many connections to what we see going on in america lately. i agree though that this is not the best choice for scifi/fantasy.

    39. Re:Whoa.. stop! by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 1

      School's main purpose is learning, not boredom. Learning with out boredom is the optimum, the goal we should be working toward.

      ...

      The point the GP is making, and one that I agree with, is that if you make something boring in school, people will treat it as such in life. Teach a boring biology class, you are robbing two dozen students of curiosity for the wonders of living organisms. Teach a boring math class, you create people who think they can make money off the casinos. Teach a boring English class, your students will never willingly pick up a book again.

      The main purpose of school is education. If a class or teacher is boring and you're not learning, learn on your own. Should the teacher be fired for boring lectures? Possibly. But when it comes to Junior High and High School students, one's education should occur even in spite of whatever challenges school brings. Yes, school at a young age can kill curiosity; but, it is the primary job of parents and then students to maintain curiosity, not teachers. By the time biology class rolls around, certainly there's little most teachers can do to help a student who's had a dead curiosity for possibly over a decade; perhaps a few, super-fantastic teachers can bring it back to life, but that generally comes at a great cost of time and is hardly a viable strategy to long-term education.

      I'm not saying learning has to be boring--well, a little bit is invariably. I certainly would welcome a teacher who can make learning exciting if it takes no more time than a boring lesson, but trying to brush the responsibility of parents and students under the rug and laying it on teachers to be entertaining is little more than saying everything in schools should be edutainment. Edutainment might be a nice treat once in a while, but it is by no means the way to educate.

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    40. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm firmly convinced that 99% of literature analysis is pure bunk- that the author's didn't have any hidden meaning. And 100% of books are far more enjoyable when read that way."
      I'm pretty sure literary analysis is only 87.4% bunk. When asked about being the "voice of his generation" Bob Dylan said "I never wanted to be Jesus; Elvis, maybe." So maybe THOSE guys were closer to 99%. A lot of it is just like sports news, less-qualified people with column space to fill.

    41. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Damek · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry. In my experience, everyone finds something good in an English course. I have friends who loved Jane Austin, friends who loved J D Salinger, friends who loved Gatsby, friends who didn't like much of particular but went on to love Henry Miller or Mark Twain or science fiction authors they might otherwise not have read.

      Personally, I never found any particular favorite but gained a literary appreciation that influenced my later choices in sci-fi, and thank goodness for the middle-school English teacher who steered me to Fahrenheit 451.

      Just sayin - a sci-fi lit course could be a good thing.. and likely would be for everyone who took it, on one level or another.

    42. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Orwell may have aimed it at Stalinism, but it works for any totalitarian state.

      And there were many trends in the Bush-era US which Orwell would have noted with horror.

      Major challenges for Obama: repeal the USAPATRIOT act and put the torturers and their bosses on trial.

      But we digress.

      I think Brave New World is also relevant.

      And John Brunner's The Sheep Look Up (ecology) and Future Shock (networked society) seem more and more relevant.

    43. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh man. I had an English teacher who loved Great Expectations. And, yah, it's an ok book, but she was crazy about finding symbolism in it. Absolutely nutsoid.

      One day she kept going on and on about how Pip escaped London on a boat on the Thames river because the river's course has lots of right angles, goes up and down and back and forth and that represents the course of Pip's life-- rich, poor, rich again, etc.

      I raised my hand and said, "maybe Pip took the Thames because it's the ONLY RIVER IN LONDON." She was so mad.

    44. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      It sounds like a momentary pause. I use it very often to link ideas together that (informally) don't really merit separate sentences. Periods are better for those nice german-like strong sentence endings

      Fleshing out full sentences requires much more thought and attention, but a bunch of short sentences reads patronizing or awkward

    45. Re:Whoa.. stop! by stub667 · · Score: 1

      And think of the girls too. You want a selection of books so that every student will be able to find something they will love. Most of the recommendations I'm seeing here would be for the male highschool student of 10-20 years ago, and the beloved wish fulfillment novel of a 14 year old male geek in 1985 won't translate that well to 2009. If you have Ender's Game or the Dark is Rising, make sure you have alternatives available. Look to the World Fantasy Awards, Phillip K. Dick awards, Arthur C Clark awards, Hugo awards, Nebula awards of the last 5 years, 10 years tops. And the young adult variants too if need lighter works for the high school students. Get things more topical and from a modern pov that the students are more likely to relate too. Otherwise, getting something timeless will be pretty hard (eg. Bridge of Birds by Barry Hughart)

    46. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Triv · · Score: 1

      Don't forget all interpretations much match the teachers own view as well. Nothing spoils someone interest in a topic, when a teacher always tells them what story they got from this abstracted fiction is wrong.

      I hate this attitude. It's true that some teachers are narrow-minded in their acceptance of other people's interpretations, but it's more true that, from my experience, a greater number of students fall back on the "my interpretation is just as valid as yours because we're all delicate and unique snowflakes" argument as an excuse to not do some textual analysis and research. You don't get credit for finishing a book and thinking about it, you get credit for developing an idea and backing it up, from the text, in the face of Socratic criticism. Some teachers take that too far, but all the professors I've had have questioned their students' ideas to get them to back their shit up with reason and analysis. Some students don't respond well to that. Sounds like you didn't. But others have found that being taught to stick to your guns and prove you know your texts backwards and forwards is one hell of a valuable learning experience.

    47. Re:Whoa.. stop! by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

      Well no shit. You go to school to learn, which is Hard Work, not to goof off or be entertained. If students just want to read good books, they can read themselves without taking the class.

      What, in your opinion, is the purpose of students taking a literature course?

      Has that ever really happened? Ever?

      I take it you never read "As I Lay Dying" in school.

      Likewise, this? Somebody wrote a master's thesis about a *paragraph* from 1984? And even more than one person has done this?

      Probably if you consider the implications of the afterword being written in the past tense, you could make the indepth-analysis of a single paragraph into the thesis, with supporting references from elsewhere in the text.

    48. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only thing that is hard work is pointless memorising of facts by rote, becoming more and more obsolete with each passing year, since information can and is easily referenced when needed. Shouldn't the point of school to be encouraging the learning process, helping nurture a childs natural tendency to enquire and study, and provide frameworks that allow that to happen in a more productive way. saying school should be hard work and not fun just sounds like a terribly sad indictment of how you view the world.

    49. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Well no shit. You go to school to learn, which is Hard Work, not to goof off or be entertained."

      Oh.
      My.
      Goodness.

    50. Re:Whoa.. stop! by PeterBrett · · Score: 1

      Unless it's about robots.

      Even the books about robots are, fundamentally, about people.

    51. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Teach a boring math class, you create people who think they can make money off the casinos.

      Teach an *interesting* math class, you create people who think they can make money off the casinos.

    52. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who told you that the Thames was the only river in London, son?

    53. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      A map. Is that wrong, as you seem to imply?

    54. Re:Whoa.. stop! by petgiraffe · · Score: 1

      I was expelled from honors English for disagreeing with the teacher's interpretation of "Ozymandias".

      I still read books (But not sonnets).

      --
      -- The reader anything less than completely failing to not misunderstand this sig is cursed.
    55. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm so glad sunday school was boring.

    56. Re:Whoa.. stop! by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      That's ok: a classic story my mother told me about a misguided English teacher was one who emphasized in a discussion about Goethe that the word "dog" was "God" spelled backwards, and claimed that should be the basis for understanding the work. The bright classmate who pointed out that "Hund" and "Gott" (which is what Goethe actually wrote before it was translated from the German) had nothing to do with each other got essentially shouted down by the teacher, and told to do their reports based on the teacher's interpretation.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    57. Re:Whoa.. stop! by be951 · · Score: 1

      Even the books about robots are, fundamentally, about people.

      Well, it depends on what you mean by people. If you mean any humans or anthropomorphized non-human characters, then sure, all stories are about people.

    58. Re:Whoa.. stop! by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      Exactly. It's about how society and humans change in scenario's founded in current science and technology extrapolated in some way.
      It's about the "What if"s.

      Time Machine - what if we had time travel
      Journey to the moon - what if we could send people to the moon
      War of the Worlds - what if aliens existed and invaded us
      Caves of Steel - what if robots were as intelligent and able as humans
      Foundation - what if we could predict the future
      Neuromancer - what if technology would, ehm, yeah what exactly, go crazy?

      A good SF book makes you think about the what if's, that's why 1984 is one of the best. Big Brother is watching!

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    59. Re:Whoa.. stop! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I kinda agree. I've read 1984 in 3 or 4 Lit classes now, from high school through college, one general lit, one sci/fi, one utopian/distopian novels. Everyone reads it at some point. Let's drag out the new and interesting.

      I also agree that 1984 cannot be fully rationally, empatheticly, or integrative-ly by a 16, 17 or 18 year old.

      and that's just from experience.

  7. break down the genre a bit by gingerTabs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cyberpunk (Gibson, Stross et al)
    Classic old school sci-fi (Clarke, Heinlein etc)
    Modern Space opera (Ian M Banks)
    High Fantasy (Tolkein et al
    Schlock Fantasy (Dragonlance, Drizzt)

    1. Re:break down the genre a bit by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      And that's the problem. This is a class with far too wide a scope.

      I suggest a survey of some of the sub-genres, with discussions of all the subgenres.

      Abridged works would be pretty good for this, but unfortunately, abridged versions (1) aren't available for most sci-fi/fantasy books and (2) entirely defeat the purpose of high fantasy and space opera.

      I took an English Lit class in high school that also had too broad of a scope. The professor handled it by using half the term as an overview and for each of us to read the same books (maybe 4-5 poetry anthologies and 2 (or 3?) novels). The second half of the term was used for individual reading assignments tailored to each student... we each had to give presentations on the books we had read, along with written reports, and then the professor would talk about how that book fit into English Lit as a whole.

      I suggest a week or two of explaining what sci-fi/fantasy is, with representative samples of short stories or passages from longer works that exemplify the style. Work chronologically, it helps students understand. Then dive into some of the seminal works (there have been plenty of suggestions already, so I won't offer any) as class-wide assignments. Then start the individual assignment(s). If this is a short course, one individual assignment may be all you can fit in.

      Advantages:
      Students got to experience, if vicariously, many more works than could be covered in a traditional erveryone-reads-all-the-works lit class.
      Individual assignments allowed each student to be challenged
      Individual assignments allowed each student to enjoy their classwork

      Disadvantages:
      No student reads all of the seminal works in the subject area
      Learning about literature second-hand is a piss-poor way to appreciate good literature.

      With a scope as broad as that class has, I think the only way you'll even BEGIN to cover the material is to divide and conquer the material with individual assignments. Make your lecture on each of the individually assigned works complement and augment the student's presentation, while filling in any important gaps.

      The other thing I'd suggest is to not ignore the authors-as-drivers-of-the-genre theme. There is no mistaking the impact that Verne, Asimov, Bradbury, Tolkien, etc have had. Trace the influence these authors had on those that came after.

      Oh, and one other thing... dismiss the later schlock (Star Wars novels, Dragonlance novels, etc). Conan books are an edge case -- they were schlock, but defined a genre. They get a passing mention. The rest of the schlock shouldn't even be considered literature (I'm sure I'll get flamed for this).

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:break down the genre a bit by Tringard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Should also include in that list:
      Alternate History (Turtledove)
      Near Future/Speculative Fiction (Rainbows End, Little Brother, etc)

    3. Re:break down the genre a bit by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Instead of "Schlock Fantasy", why not Swords and Sorcery, or "low fantasy". Dragonlance is just drivel. I mean, you don't teach Harlequin Romances in Lit, why the hell would you teach its intellectual equivlent in a Sci Fi Lit class.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:break down the genre a bit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't get to Gibson, Stross without first going through Michael Moorcock. The beginnings of dark fantasy and cyberpunk.

      And Brust is a must if you don't want to be trussed for failing the public trust.

    5. Re:break down the genre a bit by crossmr · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_fantasy

      Because low fantasy is already defined as something taking place in the real world but with fantasy elements. Modern vampire stories are low fantasy.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_and_sorcery
      Sword and sorcery is also defined, specifically as fantasy which involves a lot of exciting combat.

      High fantasy is again defined, but has nothing to do with quality. Its similar to sword and sorcery however high fantasy usually focuses on world changing events and not personal battles
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy

      While a lot of novels from the Dragonlance/forgotten realms series focus on individuals, not all of them do. There are series in there which focus on world changing events like the Time of Trouble series in forgotten realms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_Troubles_(Forgotten_Realms) which would put it into the high fantasy category. While a lot of that stuff isn't particularly well written, there are certain stand-out authors like Salvatore who has written well beyond Forgotten Realms and Margaret Weiss who has written well beyond Dragonlance.

    6. Re:break down the genre a bit by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      How about old Fantasy? One of the best things I read in college was Tolkien's translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. The meta-analysis you can do with it is amazing.
       
      And you left out the Roberts in your sci-fi list. Shea and Anton should be on any HS reading list....might as well break them while they're young....

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    7. Re:break down the genre a bit by lennier · · Score: 1

      "Near Future/Speculative Fiction (Rainbows End, Little Brother, etc)"

      Nitpick, but in the 1980s, that's just what the genre now fossilised as 'Cyberpunk' was.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    8. Re:break down the genre a bit by DaftShadow · · Score: 1

      Upvoted. :)

      Sci-Fi utilizes so many mediums, it would be remiss to miss out on them. Especially with such modern greats like Banks, Gibson, & Stross operating just outside the realms occupied by The Classics.

      - DaftShadow

    9. Re:break down the genre a bit by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Dragonlance is just drivel.

      The Dragonlance Chronicles (the first DL trilogy) I recently revisited, and it held up better than I thought it would. I've also re-read David Eddings (which did all right in a re-reading), the White Mountain series, and many other books I read 10 or 20 years ago. Ironically, the LOTR trilogy held up the worst.

      I now think Dragonlance Chronicles is a better trilogy than Tolkien, who came from the Charles Dickens school of writing. Especially after watching the movies, which put the books in a new light, I have finally come to realize the entire plot doesn't make the slightest scrap of sense. The writing is also overwraught, with Tolkein much too fascinated with his background mythology to realize too much of this detracts from the story. Robert Jordan handled it much better in his early works - you'd see a giant hand sticking out of the ground somewhere, the characters would comment on it, and move on. For all that, his world also doesn't make any sense. The elves are leaving because humans are taking over the world? Where? There's no evidence of this. There's Bree in the north, and a couple small nations to the south (I doubt the Haradrim all the way in the southern hemisphere were really bothering them).

      And Tolkien only can resolve conflicts via Deus Ex Machina: Helm's Deep? Gandalf blinds them all, and the Ents eat them. Isengard? Ents destroy it. Frodo's about to get blown up by a volcano going off? Birds come out of nowhere and pick him up. Battle of Pelenor Fields? A big unkillable undead army shows up and hand-waves the final combat.

    10. Re:break down the genre a bit by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      Heinlein's Gulf, Clarke's Childhood's End, Iain Banks' The Player of Games, Poul Anderson's Operation Changeling, Gibson's Burning Chrome, Stirling's Drakon, Adam Fawer's Improbable, M.M. Bucker's Watermine.

      The rest really don't stand the test of time, although Tolkein's always great for his phrasing.

  8. Where do you work? by eepok · · Score: 0

    Wow! Where do you work? Almost any district I've been to would have a small group of "outraged" parents preventing the establishment of a curriculum that "forces" students to read fantasy (read: witchcraft and Satan-worship).

    1. Re:Where do you work? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      I think it would be more interesting to learn where you work. Not the school district where I went, that's for sure. We didn't ready any fantasy as we were too focused on classic literature, but we did a lot of research into witchcraft through out the times as we read a Scarlett letter and the crucible. We also watched quite a few movies with full frontal nudity (male and female, with parental notification and consent). There was only one kid that didn't participate in the movie watching due to his and his parents beliefs, but he also didn't believe in celebrating labor day for what its worth.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    2. Re:Where do you work? by afidel · · Score: 1

      You make it an elective and kindly tell the parents that if they don't feel it is appropriate material for their little snowflake that there are plenty of other courses available. The voices of a small minority should not stop the enrichment and education of the majority. We had a few parents complain about material available in our honors english class, luckily the teacher was tenured, loved, and strong willed and had the backing of the administration as she had about every state and national honor a teacher could receive (she sat on the AP testing board as an example). Our librarians (both school and city) were likewise headstrong and did not bow to pressure from a few dingbats. As this article shows only 300 parents of 83,000 card holders chose to restrict the rights of their children in some way when given the choice. Personally I feel this is the best way to handle censorship, give those "concerned" parents an alternative means of control while providing the materials to the vast majority of people who are unconcerned that intellectual discovery will somehow harm their children.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:Where do you work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it interesting that the McCarthyites didn't get Labor Day repealed.

    4. Re:Where do you work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Almost any district I've been to would have a small group of "outraged" parents preventing the establishment of a curriculum that "forces" students to read fantasy (read: witchcraft and Satan-worship).

      You're American aren't you :-P

    5. Re:Where do you work? by eepok · · Score: 1

      How'd ya guess? =P

  9. Robert Heinlein! by Brazilian+Geek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Robert Heinlein!

    Note: I'll write only about the books I've read, other folks might have other points of view.

    Heinlein might have had a weird way of looking at things but he has great stories as an introduction to the scifi genre - light(ish) reading with plenty of topics to discuss.

    Take two of his works that I recommend to folks, Starship Troopers and Farmer in the Sky. Both are "juvenile" books - sex and misogyny are themes in Heinlein's later works - but deal with life in space in a very realistic way. They're wildly speculative yet, just barely, they're plausible enough to make sense.

    If you're looking for short stories, there's The Man Who Sold The Moon - short stories populated with really far-fetched ideas yet it's a really fun read.

    I'm sure other people will suggest other things but I strongly suggest you take a look at Heinlein for the kids, after all he wrote a bunch of stories for them that are easy reads and are, as far as I can remember, kid-safe.

    I'm resisting recommending more authors - as I'm sure this thread will be full of them - but Heinlein's earlier works, from what I recall, are nice examples of scifi aimed towards younger audiences.

    --
    All browsers' default homepage should read: Don't Panic...
    1. Re:Robert Heinlein! by nomadic · · Score: 1

      light(ish) reading with plenty of topics to discuss.

      In a high school literature I'd hope you'd want heavy reading.

    2. Re:Robert Heinlein! by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'll second Heinlein, especially some of the early "juveniles," especially given part of the synopsis that state, "recognize how world events have been reflected onto other worlds." A lot of the early Heinlein is reflective of the Cold War mentality.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    3. Re:Robert Heinlein! by michael_cain · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

      IMO, his most interesting story looking at how the full spectrum of basics that a society has to provide -- air, food, shelter, marriage, child-rearing, allocation of scarce resources -- might change under suddenly different circumstances. The technology is comprehensible to almost anyone. And kids in high school today may live long enough to see computers that pass a Turing test -- certainly more likely to see that than FTL space flight. Start from "Does an AI that passes such a test have any rights?" and you can take the discussion anywhere.

    4. Re:Robert Heinlein! by Phrogman · · Score: 1

      Gotta echo this, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is to my mind his best work, and bound to create a bit of controversy amongst students, paving the way to getting a conversation started on the subject. Its not hard to read, has a lot of good action in it, and raises a lot of interesting points that challenge our current societies' accepted norms.

      --
      "The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
    5. Re:Robert Heinlein! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to agree. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a great example of libertarian ideals, and Starship Troopers posits a culture where Citizenship is earned, not simply handed to you on date of majority. Controversial? yes - perfect to start a discussion. Still, both are good yarns, readable, entry level examples of Heinlein satisfying his goal of "paying the mortgage"

    6. Re:Robert Heinlein! by BurningChrome · · Score: 1

      I think The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a terrible recommendation in light of the similarly themed Red Mars. Not only does Kim Stanley Robinson put much more thought into the technology and practical implementation of colonization, he carefully lays out a brilliant analysis of social and political revolutions. Heinlein, despite the many contributions he made to developing the genre, had a simplistic and unrealistic way of delving into these complicated subjects. Maybe The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is more thrilling, but I believe Red Mars would provoke much more interesting classroom discussions of colonization/terraforming, culture, and social movements.

    7. Re:Robert Heinlein! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THIS.

    8. Re:Robert Heinlein! by sjames · · Score: 1

      If you're looking for short stories, there's The Man Who Sold The Moon - short stories populated with really far-fetched ideas yet it's a really fun read.

      If you look at it as an exploration of value and property and relate it to the real estate bubble and stock market, it can be quite instructive and topical.

    9. Re:Robert Heinlein! by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      Heinlein's Tunnel in the Sky and his short story, All You Zombies.. are truly the classics of all time.

  10. Movies by conureman · · Score: 2, Informative

    One thing that might generate extra interest is stuff that has been adapted into a movie. Daphne du Maurier's "The Birds" comes to mind, but I'm pretty antiquated.

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    1. Re:Movies by ari_j · · Score: 1

      One of the smart things my high school's English department did was make us watch Star Wars: A New Hope, in the context of epic poetry and the like. More so than Sci-Fi books made into movies, including a few movies just to compare and contrast with the books is a valid use of time. Although some of the book-to-movie examples are worth discussing, as well, such as Starship Troopers: what changed and why? or Dune: why is this movie so much harder to get through than the book?

    2. Re:Movies by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 1

      I was in High School when Star Wars came out. The first one, before it got retitled "A New Hope" and "Episode 4".

      Joseph Campbell's _The_Hero_With_a_Thousand_Faces_ or the PBS Series (with its accompanying book) The Power of Myth both talk about the archtype Epic. Read wikipedia for more.

      I saw the Dune movie before I read the book. It worked for me.
       

    3. Re:Movies by Ronald+Dumsfeld · · Score: 1

      Yes, movies.

      That's a really good way to introduce a particular piece of literature. When doing Shakespeare at school, we watched Roman Polanski's Macbeth.

      Fahrenheit 451, 2001 - A Space Odyssey, Watchmen (bonus: original is a graphic novel), Minority Report (based on a PKD short story), and lots more. Just don't take BladeRunner. Visually stunning for it's time, so much of the book is left out. PKD stuffed so many ideas into his work that it's generally his short stories that make better movies.

      --
      Where's the Kaboom?
      There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
    4. Re:Movies by conureman · · Score: 1

      The Book:Movie conversion ratio is a whole 'nother issue worthy of it's own class, IMO. (i.e. the Daphne DuMaurier story lent absolutely nothing but a title and some rogue birds to Hitchcock's movie). I'm just saying it might motivate some of the back-of-the-room types to actually try reading their assigned texts, or at least give them away when they start discussing the plot line from the movie instead.

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  11. Let the students... by Darkness404 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Let the students decide. In most literature classes similar to this, you can pretty much bet that each student will have their favorite authors/genres, so why not take suggestions at the beginning of the year, order the books and use that as some material. Students will like it because they aren't being "forced" to read a book that isn't their style, they see that a teacher respects their opinions and chances are you would have better discussions. So pick a few "classic" books and a few contemporary novels, but let the students really direct what the class reads, the English classes that were like that in high school I really loved and participated much more actively in than "read pages 125-178 by tomorrow" classes.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Let the students... by MozeeToby · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As much as I want to agree, I just can't. Any liturature class should be about exposing the students to works that they would probably not have discovered on their own. If you only have them read what they like, they would have read it without the class anyway. I definately feel that giving them a choice has a place in such a class, but more like something to do at the end, and have them write a report comparing and contrasting the 'classics' with their choice of book.

    2. Re:Let the students... by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Depends though. I was in a number of literature classes and book clubs in high school and a lot of the books that have made the most impact weren't the "classic" books that everyone thinks about, but rather the odd book that one or two students really liked so the entire class read it. For example, even though my teacher had never read an Ayn Rand book, one of the students had and recommended it, and it really challenged and expanded my view of the world. It also helps reduce certain biases by teachers in what types of books you read (and its pretty easy with fantasy/sci-fi for a teacher to project their own personal beliefs via the types of books).

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:Let the students... by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      Every lit class I took had the books most guys hated but girls liked, and the occasional book the guys liked but the girls hated. I've generally found the difference is the books either focus on character development or plot. Maybe someone has a better breakdown of what appeals in books, but I would say try to evaluate books on character development and plot. If you have too many books in one category, half the class will hate the course.

      Students who don't like the books will almost certainly use the cliff's notes. Some teachers respond to this by writing the tests around the cliffs notes, which just makes those students hate the class more and hate the teacher. While you do have to work around the cliffs notes to properly evaluate the student's understanding, you need to work with them also. In the end if they just don't like the books they probably won't enjoy the class one way or another, so there may be little you can do. I liked maybe three books I had to read in high school, so I've never had an enjoyable lit course. I like reading, so I just hope a teacher can figure out how to stop taking the fun out of it.

    4. Re:Let the students... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy to digest classics:

      Terry Pratchett's discworld novels. The early ones can be considered classics by now.

      Hitch Hiker's Guide.

      Gibson's Neuromancer

      Snowcrash by what's his name again? A bit porny in places.

      David Edding's Belgariad books are long, but easy to read.

      Niven's Ring world. Not that easy but interesting.

      Any and all short stories by Philip K Dick.

    5. Re:Let the students... by beanluc · · Score: 1

      How about: "SOME liturature classes should be about exposing the students to works that they would probably not have discovered on their own... THIS YEAR"?

      Otherwise you're judging that anything they already read is completely bereft of of any study potential whatsoever.

      How about: "ANY literature class should be about exposing the students to ways of thinking that they would probably not have discovered on their own... EVER"?

      I've long said that it would be no less valuable in teaching appreciation, criticism and "the language" to use the literature which they're already choosing for themselves than it is to make them bore through all the standard oldtimey crap before they want or care to do so.

      Sure, that wouldn't be as valuable in teaching "the canon" specifically, but why can't that be another year's curriculum? Literature is about more than "These are the authors/works you need to read". It's about "These authors/works are widely appreciated, let's help you enjoy and appreciate them too".

      It would be more effective to teach someone these works after they already have some experience at appreciating something, rather than trying to teach appreciation at the same time as forcing anachronistic material on somebody who doesn't otherwise have any reason for choosing that material.

      It's like food: "Here, this is good for you, so figure out how to make some dish with it" is less likely to help a kid form a taste for that nutiritious food than is "Here, this dish is delicious, want to know how it's done and what to buy? ps it's good for you"

      --
      Say it right: "Nuc-le-ah Powah".
    6. Re:Let the students... by phantasmagoric · · Score: 1

      I agree. Have mandatory "classics" to read, but have the students read a number of novels of their own choice to write a report on (or even explain to the rest of class as a final project). A great way to go about this is to create a list of "eligible" books that are of the level you are considering and let the students choose. That way, nobody is forced to read something they truly don't want, and the students can explore if they so choose. I had a teacher who let us do this in high school and it was unbelievable how many more students read their books instead of using cliff notes, and how many enjoyed the process. The only potential problem is that the teacher needs to have read most of the books to adequately grade the reports. (or just decrease the size of the lists)

    7. Re:Let the students... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never taken a "liturature" class, but luckily the literature ones started with Homer, Euripides, Virgil and Ovid...

    8. Re:Let the students... by theghost · · Score: 1

      Disagree with your idea about what Lit courses are about, but mostly agree that there should be a curriculum. Students need a foundation to build on (the classics) before they can fully appreciate the latest developments.

      Lit courses are not about helping people develop a love of reading and an appreciation for literature. That's a natural byproduct of exposure to good stuff, but it can't really be the focus of a course above the middle school level.

      Lit courses (like all classes really) are about teaching people to think in new ways (recognizing connections and patterns in words) and giving them a vocabulary to use to communicate these thoughts. As a matter of fact, getting someone to explicitly acknowledge the hidden meanings in a book they love for its story and characters is harder than doing so with a dry piece that they read purely analytically.

      However, if you only expose kids to books they don't want to read then they learn that there are two different kinds of books - good ones and literature. So make sure you pick good classics and allow the students some (not total) freedom to shape the curriculum.

      My personal suggestion for the course: Do a graphic novel too - V for Vendetta or The Watchmen would be good candidates.

      --
      The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
  12. More classics and sources by Stile+65 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd add some H. G. Wells and John W. Campbell - classics before Asimov (although Campbell's personal views are somewhat controversial now). And of course Asimov was mentioned by some people above me already.

    Also, there are genres that fall within sci-fi and fantasy, like alternate history. Some good sources for short stories, too, are the Asimov's, Analog and SF&F literary magazines, and also short story digests published on a regular basis that include some big names writing short stories for the more literary public.

    --
    I claim first use of "Error No. 0B" - or "No. 0B error." It'll be the new ID 10T!
    1. Re:More classics and sources by Stile+65 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh, and for classic fantasy you can't do much better than pre-monotheistic mythology. Gilgamesh, the Iliad and Odyssey... all those fun gods and creatures that form the basis of modern fantasy. Don't forget the Celts and the Norse and the Slavs (Orson Scott Card wrote a book based on Slavic mythology!), and also don't forget African and Asian and pre-European-dominance Australian and American cultures as sources of myths that to this day color horror and fantasy.

      --
      I claim first use of "Error No. 0B" - or "No. 0B error." It'll be the new ID 10T!
    2. Re:More classics and sources by RIAAShill · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'd add some H. G. Wells and John W. Campbell - classics before Asimov (although Campbell's personal views are somewhat controversial now). And of course Asimov was mentioned by some people above me already.

      I agree completely about looking beyond Asimov and company. I can't vouch for the Campbell (never read anything of his before). But here is my list of top picks.

      Mary Shelly's Frankenstein is an excellent bit of classical literature that deals with topics such as hubris, justice, and divinity. It is also an enjoyable, easy read.

      The War of the Worlds is notable for being written in a timeless style. Its parallels to the imperialism of the British Empire is excellent fodder for in depth student research.

      Good Omens nicely turns Christian Apocalypse doctrine on its head while providing insights into the battles between bureaucracies and nation-states. May be controversial because of its connection to religious doctrine, but one of the more entertaining pieces on this list.

      Gulliver's Travels, which is excellent satire, even if some of its messages are a bit heavy-handed. A little harder to read than some of the others, but an excellent piece nonetheless. Plus, there are so many common memes that derive from these tales. The various parts are easily read separately. If you only assign part of it, I would keep A Voyage to Lilliput and A Voyage to Houyhnhnms.

      The Lottery is a must-read. You should find out if many of your students have been exposed to this from other literature courses. If not, then go for it! It has so many lessons about peer-pressure, hypocrisy, institutional momentum, and more. Plus, it is the exemplar "twist ending."

    3. Re:More classics and sources by Stile+65 · · Score: 1

      I had to read The Lottery in English class in HS because the author graduated from my high school. It's kinda cool still seeing references to it, even in popular literature.

      --
      I claim first use of "Error No. 0B" - or "No. 0B error." It'll be the new ID 10T!
    4. Re:More classics and sources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of those titles actually did get covered in one of my English Lit classes in high school, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth. But then my teacher was one of those eccentric types.

      You could also take a compare-and-contrast approach applied to original works and later authors' retellings. For example, Shelly's Frankenstein and Saberhagen's.

    5. Re:More classics and sources by agrippa_cash · · Score: 1

      You probably would have had to read it anyway. Shirley Jackson never even drove past my HS and I had to read it more than once.

    6. Re:More classics and sources by Veretax · · Score: 1

      both the Illiad and the Oydssey are far to large to cover in a short amount of time.

    7. Re:More classics and sources by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Oh, and for classic fantasy you can't do much better than pre-monotheistic mythology.

      I'd suggest some post-monotheistic classic fantasy, but the radical biased Slashdot crowd would undoubtedly persecute me for even suggesting that the Bible be taught in public schools. ;)

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    8. Re:More classics and sources by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Those aren't works of "fantasy" any more than, say, the Torah. The authors of those works took what they wrote to be history and religious truth, not fiction.

      For instance, Apollo wasn't just a nifty character like, say, Tom Bombadil. He was a real presence for the Greeks, who made life-or-death decisions based on what his Oracle at Delphi said.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  13. How SF has changed with the Times by Syncerus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It would be interesting to emphasize how SF has evolved with society. From Vern and Wells in Victorian Europe, to Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" and "Stranger in a Strange Land", which demonstrate both sides of American culture in the 1960's. John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" is a terrific period piece, and Zelazny's "Lord of Light" is also a blast.

    In my view, SF took a serious downward turn from the early 1980's, but there are exceptions, to be sure. With the entire range of SF at your disposal, there's no reason to select junk when there are so many gifted authors to study.

    --
    "Man is nothing without the works of man" -- Helvetius
    1. Re:How SF has changed with the Times by sabs · · Score: 1

      You do realize that Starship Troopers was published in 1959. Before the Vietnam war, and it's a reflection of the 50's and the Korean war.

      Stranger in a Strange Land is not really appropriate reading in a school. Much as I love that book.

      Better Heinlein books would be:
      Farmer in the Sky.
      Podkayne of Mars
      Starman Jones
      Tunnel in the Sky

      For Seniors:
      Stranger in a Strange Land
      Job
      Puppet Masters
      Friday

    2. Re:How SF has changed with the Times by CaseCrash · · Score: 1

      I read Stranger in a Strange land for 10th grade. It's appropriate for students of this course's age group (junior/senior). Just because of a bit of sex it's not ok? You vastly underestimate the amount of erotica these kids are handling. PLease turn on the television and tell me how most of the shit on there is more appropriate than this great piece of literature. I can see more sex acts in 30minutes on television than the entirety of the book.

      --
      No, that link you posted to a web comic we've all seen a hundred times is not "obligatory."
    3. Re:How SF has changed with the Times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my view, SF took a serious downward turn from the early 1980's [...]

      Of course, that's when it went mainstream.
      1982: Tron, E.T., BladeRunner, Star Trek: Khan

      How do you follow that? By rehashing all the ideas into lowest-common-denominator crap.

    4. Re:How SF has changed with the Times by dpilot · · Score: 1

      Given time, it would be a real hoot to read Heinlein's "Starship Troopers," followed by Joe Haldeman's "The Forever War." Very similar in some ways, but Heinlein was a WWII vet, whereas Haldeman is a Viet Nam vet. The difference comes out quite starkly in the two books, despite many parallel aspects. The pair are kind of a two-sided mirror view of US society in the two eras.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    5. Re:How SF has changed with the Times by sabs · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking about the kids.

      I'm talking about their parents.

      The kids can totally handle it.
      Their parents can't handle their kids handling it.

    6. Re:How SF has changed with the Times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I second Lord of Light, and I'd also toss in Creatures of Light and Darkness, by the same author (Zelazny).

  14. I saw Herbert! by Yamata+no+Orochi · · Score: 0

    The Dune series is a personal favorite of mine and it's doubtful you'd progress far enough into the series during a single semester to see it begin to crumble towards the end. That's my vote.

    But please disregard those mentioning the likes of Fahrenheit 451 or 1984. A class like this needs to address works that won't appear in every English II course in the country already.

  15. What about these guys? by WScottC · · Score: 1

    Robert Heinlein
    Clifford Simak
    Stanislaw Lem
    Edwin Abbott Abbott's Flatland

    1. Re:What about these guys? by DrLang21 · · Score: 1

      I second Flatland. For a high school literature class, it's not intimidating and it's a great opening for discussion of satire in literature.

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
  16. Asimov by durdur · · Score: 1

    My 14-year-old daughter liked Asimov's "I, Robot" a lot. Easy to read but also very imaginative and thought-provoking.

    1. Re:Asimov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like wise with Asimov's 'The Last Question'.
      http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

  17. "Ringworld" by Larry Niven by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...one of the best sci-fi novels i ever had the pleasure of reading. Also as others mentioned Douglas Adams, and Orson Scott Card the guy who wrote the "Enders Game" series.

  18. Great novel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1984

  19. Arthur C. Clarke by gmfeier · · Score: 0

    Got to have at least one short story from Arthur C. Clarke. "Superiority" is my favorite, but "The Nine Billion Names of God" is great too.

    1. Re:Arthur C. Clarke by Killer+Orca · · Score: 1

      I say go further, try and do a majority of the reading as short stories, or novellas. There are a lot of hidden gems in the SF short story collections, many by major authors too. Phillip K. Dick comes to mind with "The Wub" and "Roog".

    2. Re:Arthur C. Clarke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But there is Clarke SF The City and the Stars, Childhoods End at least

  20. In addition to others... by killmenow · · Score: 0

    ...already mentioned, how about "Little Brother" by Cory Doctorow?

    1. Re:In addition to others... by fwez · · Score: 1

      I second Little Brother.

  21. Basics by kyrcant · · Score: 1

    I recommend doing short stories instead of full books, especially for some of the heavier authors (Tolkein). "The Coldest Place" is a great story. Larry Niven has written many short stories, especially about Gil Hamilton and the stories about the origin of humans. Asimov has lots of short Robot stories, and I'm sure you won't have trouble finding plenty of others. What I'm getting at is that quantity is sometimes ... not necessary. There is plenty to learn comparing short stories by classic authors. my 2c.

  22. Analog or short story collections by jbeaupre · · Score: 0

    There's only so many books you can fit into a course. I'd suggest getting subscriptions to Analog (thereby adding to the circulation of a favorite magazine of mine) or getting some short story anthologies.

    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
  23. An Excellent Commentary On Gulag U.S.A. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is Philip K. Dick's Radio Free Albemuth

    Yours In Astrakhan,
    Kilgore Trout

  24. Sci/fi lit class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I took a a Sci/Fi lit class in highschool quite some time ago, and the only book I can recall was "A Brave New World" by Huxley. I think it was a good choice for the course.

  25. Can't leave Lem out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In any list of notable science fiction books, Stanislaw Lem cannot be excluded. The Cyberiad would be the obvious starting point.

  26. Just one course? Why not two? by dfxm · · Score: 1

    I know my school had its own Sci-fi lit class. I feel like there's enough sci-fi lit out there to fill a whole semester's worth of material. I'm also not exactly sure where the themes and techniques specific to sci-fi and fantasy literature intersect. Some of the readership is the same, but what else? If you must include both, why not just call the class "Nerd Lit?"

  27. Dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Philip K Dick

  28. I know... by ZekoMal · · Score: 3, Insightful
    ...religion!

    All joking aside, I can't see why this class is necessary. Science Fiction and Fantasy are meant to be enjoyed. If you force children who aren't interested, they still won't like it. If it's an elective, then you'll get kids who have probably already read all of the books that might be offered, so they won't fully enjoy it either. Unless it worked around not that well known literature and focused more on discussions and less on bulk reading/essays, it might have some merit.

    For that matter, a good 1/3 of my books read in plain ol' Lit were sci-fi/fantasy. Would that class be changed to general lit? Will there be no other specialized lit classes? Will they cut general lit and change it into specialized lit, so that no one has to leave the genre they like? I prefer the generalized approached to reading, otherwise you are in danger of never leaving your comfort zone.

    1. Re:I know... by Brandee07 · · Score: 1

      I think that the class in question is much like the structure in my high school, where there were 12 Junior/Senior level English Lit courses (collectively called English 3/4), of which each student had to pick four to take, so they could gear their literature-learning experience to genres that would be more enjoyable, or at least, less painful.

    2. Re:I know... by digsbo · · Score: 1

      Why not religion? Try C.S. Lewis' "Out of the Silent Planet" for an interesting sf take on the Judeo-Christian theology.

    3. Re:I know... by ZekoMal · · Score: 1

      The reason being that if anyone took the ballsy move of associating religion with fiction, they would immediately get shot down and destroyed.

    4. Re:I know... by digsbo · · Score: 1
      Really? Why?

      On the religious side, many people understand the concept of "parable", I think, as it was a primary means for the biblical Jesus to explain things. Though I'll admit, a lot of fundamentalists are rather antagonistic to C.S. Lewis in general.

      I see no reason why the secular crowd would object; most every literature class I took used multiple interpretative theories that were influenced by nihilism, Freud, Jung, Nietzsche, feminism, to reader-response, deconstructionism, and more.

      In lit classes, you apply modes of thought without needing to "believe", it's kind of an understood.

    5. Re:I know... by ZekoMal · · Score: 1
      In the small town environment, ass-backwardness still thrives. The school I went through actively squashed anything that didn't agree with religion wholeheartedly; teachers who did anything contrary to that really had to tread carefully or else get fired. Our science classes considered evolution to be an utterly false "theory"...I could go on, but it makes me wince.

      If schools did this on their own accord, and did so silently, it'd be fine. If a ton of schools did it and any media network (Fox News *cough*) picked up on it, the uber evangelical Christians would come down on them like Thor's hammer.

    6. Re:I know... by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      All joking aside, I can't see why this class is necessary. Science Fiction and Fantasy are meant to be enjoyed.

      I'd argue that all reading is meant to be enjoyed. It may also be meant to inspire, edify, anger, provoke, confound, confuse, amuse, and many other things.

      If, on the other hand, your argument is that science fiction and fantasy are "just for fun," I'd say you couldn't be more wrong.

      If you force children who aren't interested, they still won't like it.

      That's certainly true of regular old English class. It's a shame that so many high school (and college) classes are taught so poorly. Still, I don't see any other way to encourage the love of reading in children than to try.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    7. Re:I know... by ZekoMal · · Score: 1
      Except that in our current public school system, this is how it would work:

      Read the exact book I tell you to, at the exact pace I tell you to. Once you finish, typically a month later, write a 3-page essay on why this was written. Use three sources, none of which are internet-based, MLA format.

      Repeat that roughly five times, and there you go. It sounds really fun until you realize that it'll be whatever they want it to be, and they'll decide how you react to it. They couldn't possibly let the students choose which book they read, in case the teacher had never heard of it, and they couldn't possibly let the students decide how to write about the book, as it'd take the teacher too long to read them all.

  29. Enjoyable books, please. by Ikronix · · Score: 2, Informative

    "Ender's Game." "Lord of the Rings." Hell, "Chronicles of Narnia." "Starship Troopers." "The Demolished Man." "Ringworld." No reason not to sprinkle some legitimately entertaining reads into the mix, and since the above-mentioned books all have fairly rich themes to discuss, you won't compromise academic value to get something that might hook them.

    1. Re:Enjoyable books, please. by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      "Ender's Game."

      You mean the novelette, right? Because the novel sucked donkey balls.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    2. Re:Enjoyable books, please. by Kizeh · · Score: 1

      I would also think that any of Asimov's works including the three laws of robotics would be pretty relevant.

    3. Re:Enjoyable books, please. by clintp · · Score: 1

      No, but there are pressures of time and resources. Two of those books (Lord and Chronicles) will blow through an entire semester's time for students given reading, reviewing, discussion and testing. Honestly, the students will skip the books and watch the wildly popular movies while carefully reading the wikipedia entries for "differences between the book and movie".

      Throw lots of short stories at them, peppered with a few choice novels of longer length but with themes that can be discussed together. (Ender's Game/Starship Troopers [interplanetary war] or The Moon is a Harsh Mistress/Dune [economics of scarcity]) Some students will take the more challenging books, others will opt for the easier ones.

      --
      Get off my lawn.
    4. Re:Enjoyable books, please. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1

      If "Narnia" is fair game, consider having someone look at C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy series, and in particular That Hideous Strength. It's probably not historically significant enough to be one of your headliners, but it fills the "science vs humanity" niche in an interesting way and ties it together with some Arthurian legend, and moreover highlights a side of the author to which relatively few are exposed, and it targets a more mature audience. You should definitely have it in your list of independent-reading-for-students, especially for those who are otherwise interested in C.S. Lewis / Narnia.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    5. Re:Enjoyable books, please. by conureman · · Score: 1

      If you're qualifying books on sheer simple pleasure, may I suggest one of the four books of John Christopher's "Tripod Trilogy". Good juvenile stuff, I don't recall any special lessons learned, but its been an awful long time. (Actually I haven't read the prequel yet, my dad recommended it, it was published after I got on to other things. I think I'll go read it tonight.)

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    6. Re:Enjoyable books, please. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I liked the novel, and high school is the perfect age for that to hook the arrogant children on that wish fulfillment fantasy.

    7. Re:Enjoyable books, please. by conureman · · Score: 1

      Well, I just read "When The Tripods Came" by John Christopher, and it did have a bit of a message, think for yourself, and stick by your people. It reminded me of "No Blade Of Grass" which points up the moral quandary of taking care of your own, at the expense of the other. That one, IIRC was a bit less juvenile as well, a plus or a minus, I suppose most of the students weren't reading at a high-school level when THEY were in the second grade. Anyhow, I liked the message of the fragility of the world's food supply, and that reminds me, what about that killer rust that was going around in Asia the last few years...

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    8. Re:Enjoyable books, please. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Ender's Game/Starship Troopers [interplanetary war]

      Neither of those was really about "interplanetary war".

      Ender's Game was a book about "how we fight", really. The whole book was about training leaders. The fact that the war was interplanetary (interstellar, even) was largely irrelevant. Note that the entire story took place within a school.

      Starship Troopers was about "why we fight". Again, the fact that the war was interplanetary (interstellar, even) was largely irrelevant. Note that, even here, the book spent far more time talking about training (of soldiers and officers) than actually fighting (two battle in the entire book, covering between them less than one day of the lead character's life).

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  30. Neal Stephenson by killmenow · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Neal Stephenson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Well, there's the year for you. No time for anything else.

  31. Took similar course, but as a college junior by Amigan · · Score: 4, Informative
    We did a book a week. Some of it was tough sledding. I doubt that will be a viable speed for HS - where the student's won't be buying their own copies.

    We spanned HG Wells (Time Machine) through Larry Niven (Ring World). A lot of it depends on how the material is presented. My prof at the time was a repressed poet, and went into the deep meaningful relationships in Heinlein's "Double Star" and swore that the author was seeing a shrink while writing the book. We also went through the original Foundation trilogy where the prof kept pointing out how the administrators of the planet were going through a feminization and had an oral fixation. During the discussion of "Dune" (and again later in "Ring World") there was pointing out of the male fear of falling into a hole - especially a hole with teeth.

    Personally, I would look at the older scifi (golden age, 30s-50s) for technology that they proposed and see how long it took to actually implement. Then look at technology mentioned in contemporary scifi and see how close we are to getting there.

    jerry

    --
    "Software is the difference between hardware and reality"
    1. Re:Took similar course, but as a college junior by baKanale · · Score: 5, Funny

      You know, sometimes a Shai-Hulud is just a Shai-Hulud.

    2. Re:Took similar course, but as a college junior by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      I'm with you. I also took a course in science fiction in school. When we wrote our end of semester comments, mine was "Course title is misleading - should have been "Feminist Science Fiction".

      I swear there wasn't a single book on the list with a male character that wasn't stupid or evil or both.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    3. Re:Took similar course, but as a college junior by Tom+Boz · · Score: 1

      I should think the fear of "falling into a hole - especially a hole with teeth" wouldn't be confined to the male gender. But hey, maybe I'm wrong...?

    4. Re:Took similar course, but as a college junior by Amigan · · Score: 1

      The professor referred to this concept as "Vagina Dentata" For more on that topic, see wikipedia

      --
      "Software is the difference between hardware and reality"
    5. Re:Took similar course, but as a college junior by lennier · · Score: 1

      "the male fear of falling into a hole - especially a hole with teeth. "

      Huh. And all this time I thought a sandworm was an obvious phallic symbol.

      So does that mean in Return of the Jedi, Boba Fett actually got the girl?

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    6. Re:Took similar course, but as a college junior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Armageddon 2419" anyone?

    7. Re:Took similar course, but as a college junior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      he professor referred to this concept as "Vagina Dentata"

      Also more commonly know as "the fear of blow jobs".

  32. Don't forget Bradbury by chrisj_0 · · Score: 2, Informative

    One of the best first Sifi books is The Illustrated Man, by Ray Bradbury.
    The stories are short and insightful and will make for great discussions in this age group. Although it was written in the early 50's the stories are (from what I remember) still very relevant with great social commentary.

  33. Ianim M. Banks? by Brandano · · Score: 1

    I'd add in a short novel from the Culture universe, there's a few around. If you want a full length book, a good one for a geek is Excession. Or if you really hate your students, Feersum Endjinn (I am kidding, love them both).

    1. Re:Ianim M. Banks? by arethuza · · Score: 1

      Drug-taking sex-changing socialists in hyper powerful ships-with-silly-names FTW!

    2. Re:Ianim M. Banks? by utopia27 · · Score: 1

      got to be HUGELY careful with Mr. Banks... much of his stuff (including Culture stuff) is very, very mature for a high school audience.

  34. Stick to what's popular by VeritasRoss · · Score: 1

    Well, obviously Harry Potter. And vampires. Definitely focus on books with teenage vampires.

    --
    If my post were a car, this sig would be its bumper-sticker.
    1. Re:Stick to what's popular by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Absolutely not! That would be the worst thing. Focus on books that have NOT been made into movies or TV shows. Show them that SF is far richer and deeper than the stuff that makes it to the screen.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  35. Even More Names to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I actually had a High School lit course that covered some SciFi/Fantasy. The three books they used were:

    Ray Bradbury's "Something Wicked This Way Comes"
    Joe Haldeman's "The Forever War"
    John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar"

  36. Some of my favorites that many have read by x1n933k · · Score: 1

    Consider Manga which can offer something easier to get into than a full-blown novel.

    Just off the top of my head:
    Ender's Game and/or Ender's Shadow
    Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
    Any Phillip K Dick (since most have been made to movies)

    [J]

  37. suggestions: Stephen R Donaldson, theme-book data by drDugan · · Score: 1

    Both his Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever series (fantasy) and his Gap series (Sci Fi) were excellent writing and stories. I read them growing up and thought they were great. He's one of the few authors I've read that can do both genres really well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_R._Donaldson

    Also, I think a fun class project would be to compile a concept or theme-based wiki and find/cite examples of major themes in fantasy and sci-fi literature. I use "wiki" loosely here because in my experience wiki tools offer too much freedom to express and with groups it usually makes a mess. But simply put, answer this: what are major and interesting repeated themes in sci fi and fantasy literature, which books do those themes appear in, and for each, a brief description of how the story uses or modifies the basic theme for that story, which stories show best examples of the theme, which places did the theme first appear, etc.

  38. Re:i'm not trying to be a troll by swanzilla · · Score: 5, Funny

    but while you're teaching high school students science fiction, kids in other high schools are learning actual science

    In other high schools, kids are learning about mutual exclusivity.

  39. A few suggestions by HiThere · · Score: 1

    Charles Stross: Accelerado (Possibly just Lobsters).
    Tolkien: Lord of the Rings
    Asimov: I Robot
    John W. Campbell: Who goes there? (Or "The Cloak of Aesir" or "The Moon is Hell")
    E.E.Smith: Skylark of Space
    Balmer & Wylie: When Worlds Collide

    I tried to get one per decade, but my memory isn't that organized. Reading the list I notice that there are few short stories. And I left out a bunch to shorten the list. But one noteworthy factor is how the themes change over the decades.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  40. Donaldson if the class is mature enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant belong on any list of serious fantasy literature. Apart from the brutal act in the beginning it is absolutely perfect. Nothing compares in terms of esoteric vocabulary. Sometimes I think Tolkien's Elvish is easier to understand than Donaldson's English. But it does challenge you as a reader and as a thinking person.

    And a tremendous story as well...

  41. Mixture by Lulfas · · Score: 1

    Consider a mixture not just between the genres, but between the time periods. Do a piece from H. G. Wells, maybe something by Tolkien (maybe The Hobbit), and then something fairly modern and gimmicky, something that'll be fun to read. John Zakour does a lot of small paperbacks that are fairly punny and set slightly in the future. Or even somethings from Anthony Piers. They are always fun, and a great way to point out reader comprehension. Avoid doing a lot of the heavier Sci Fi, as it is just going to turn people off to it. Mix in some of the fun stuff, especially early, and let them enjoy it a bit.

    1. Re:Mixture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually that might be really interesting to do a course with just Sci-Fi books, looking at what people saw when envisioning the future in different time periods. Start each book with a week of history in class, then the next week discuss the book. Two weeks per book, for as many as your year allows. Some that I might do: (1870) 20000 Leagues, (1895) The Time Machine, (1932) Brave New World, (1949) 1984, (1950) I, Robot, (1954) Fahrenheit 451, (1965) Dune, (1966) The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, (1979) Hitchhikers Guide, (1985) Ender's Game.

  42. Kindred by Octavia Butler by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I stumbled across this great book just recently and was ashamed to learn that it was written in 1974. The big thing missing from this list is any books by women.

  43. zardoz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The gun is good. The penis is evil. The penis shoots seeds, and makes new life to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was, but the gun shoots death, and purifies the Earth of the filth of brutals. Go forth . . . and kill!

  44. Asimov's Mysteries by emkyooess · · Score: 0

    I would recommend selections of those short stories that were collected in Asimov's Mysteries. Asimov is a given for the class, but most people tend to forget he did things other than his robot series (which, are also terribly important). Asimov can be seen as early-on having given thought to the societal implications of technology that would later take over the genre with cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk. While his robot series defines the "Three Laws of Robotics", Asimov's Mysteries deal with what-ifs such as: being far-removed from humanity and alone (or with a small group of people) for a long time (Marooned Off Vesta -- leads well to a discussion about a possible expedition to Mars); the mental pressures of a reputation (Billiard Ball is wonderful for this).

    Sadly, it is long out of print, but many of its stories are in other collections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimov's_Mysteries

  45. First of all: by Hurricane78 · · Score: 0, Troll

    No Fantasy

    They are already dumbed down enough. No need to add to that.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    1. Re:First of all: by Fritz+T.+Coyote · · Score: 1

      No Fantasy? Shall we go seriously hard-core? Anything that features on Faster-Than-Light travel is also Fantasy. -- On the other hand: Contemporary Hard SF: Allen Steele. Some of his Orbital Decay stories might work well.

    2. Re:First of all: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The class doesn't even pretend to touch on the realism in the book's universes, like many classes of this type it focuses instead on the story that was told and why it was told.

      The only difference between soft scifi and fantasy is that with one you have strange nonexistent math and the other *poof* it happens. The stories told are no different. I still prefer my lasers and hyperdrives to rustic tomes of dark summonings though.

  46. Some recommendations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Princess Bride. Many students will have seen the movie, but they have no idea that it is a book and that the book is completely hilarious (and you can fool them into thinking it's an abridgment).

    Ender's Game. This is one of the best sci-fi stories I've ever read. The ending really surprised me.

    Starship Troopers. The book is much better than the movie and has lots of interesting political ramifications to discuss.

    1. Re:Some recommendations... by RIAAShill · · Score: 1

      The Princess Bride. Many students will have seen the movie, but they have no idea that it is a book and that the book is completely hilarious (and you can fool them into thinking it's an abridgment).

      Excellent choice! It's a good book for introducing students to postmodernism and makes for a nice study of humor in fantasy literature.

      Ender's Game. This is one of the best sci-fi stories I've ever read. The ending really surprised me.

      As fun as Ender's Game is...I disagree. It is certainly well-written and ingenuitive, but strikes me as mostly an action-oriented adventure with little to challenge the reader. Xenocide has more going for it in the way of moral dilemas, the demands for survival, the metaphysical, and the alien (obligatory xkcd ref). Alternatively, Shadow Puppets has much to say about how nations exercise power and how alliances form. Unfortunately, both works can be a bit confusing without having read their predecessors.

      Starship Troopers. The book is much better than the movie and has lots of interesting political ramifications to discuss.

      Haven't read it yet...but perhaps I should!

  47. Rendezvous with Rama by nacturation · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Rendezvous with Rama, by Arthur C. Clarke. Great novel the perfectly fits the classic sci-fi genre and deals with the "what if" of alien contact and how it could possibly come about. It has ties to biblical stories (eg: Noah's ark) and packs quite a bit of detail (physics, biology, computers, etc.) into a fairly easy read. Rama II was a decent followup and goes more into social issues, but the subsequent novels go progressively downhill and are only worth reading just to find out what happens.

    --
    Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    1. Re:Rendezvous with Rama by Omeganon · · Score: 1

      hear hear. Great book. +1

      --
      Omeganon
    2. Re:Rendezvous with Rama by RileyBryan · · Score: 1

      YES. GREAT BOOK. Rama 2 lost me though, I enjoyed the mystery of the ship in the first book, while the second took that leap into pure fantasy crab-robot stuff.

    3. Re:Rendezvous with Rama by dpilot · · Score: 1

      For a "science fiction course" this would take too much of a bite of time.

      But I like the multi-author story arc, anyway.

      Begin with Arthur C Clarke's "Childhood's End" - a story about the next stage in man's evolution, guided by alien "midwives." Most of the focus is on those who were left behind, since those who moved ahead were incomprehensible.

      Next up is Robert Charles Wilson's "The Harvest" - a story about the next stage in man's evolution, guided by alien "midwives." But this time, instead of that next step being mystical psionic demi-godhood, it's uploading into a nanotech future. Again most of the story focus is on those who *elected* to stay behind.

      The two stories are stunningly parallel from a simple plot summary, but utterly different in their flavor.

      Finally, there is Greg Bear's "Blood Music" - a story about the next stage in man's evolution, being uploaded into a nanotech future. Except that this time it's all an accident, and a much bumpier ride than the other two.

      The latter two stories now somewhat parallel, but again very different. But the 3 books really work well together.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    4. Re:Rendezvous with Rama by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

      The additional books of the Rama were written with another author, and are just stupid. (Spoiler: angels built it). Don't bother with them, as they don't make much sense.

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    5. Re:Rendezvous with Rama by nacturation · · Score: 1

      You mean biots? Remember that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from pure fantasy crab robot stuff.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    6. Re:Rendezvous with Rama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read the Titan, Wizard, Demon trilogy by John Varley before I read Rendezvous with Rama. Both Titan and R.w.R. share the theme of a huge alien spaceship being found in our solar system and explored by a small crew of humans. As a result of my reading order, I could not for the life of me figure out how the Rama book managed to get a Hugo and Nebula.

    7. Re:Rendezvous with Rama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a result of my reading order, I could not for the life of me figure out how the Rama book managed to get a Hugo and Nebula.

      Part of the reason might be this:

      Titan: 1979
      Rendezvous with Rama: 1972

    8. Re:Rendezvous with Rama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah... you actually enjoyed getting dragged through Moby Dick, didn't you.

  48. Two great highschool level books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ender's Game (social / war aspects)
    Starship Troopers (great social accountability)

    1. Re:Two great highschool level books by wonkavader · · Score: 1

      If they do a book by Card, clearly it should be Ender's game.

      I think, personally, that it's his best book, but ignoring that, there are practical concerns: It's fastest paced book and will keep High Schoolers' attention. It's also one of his shortest books -- they wouldn't have time to read any of his others.

  49. War of the Worlds by jnaujok · · Score: 1

    I just re-read the original H.G. Wells "War of the Worlds" a few months back, and I was surprised at how much of it is applicable to modern society. While the story itself is somewhat dated because technology has passed it by so completely, the human issues in it are just as modern and prevalent today as they were when it was published.

    In a way, I think that's what any SciFi/Fantasy literature course should get across -- that the stories are not just about whiz-bang special effects -- a lot of the time they are far more pointed descriptions and explorations of the human condition than are written in any of the "serious" literature.

    War of the Worlds, for example, is a very strong commentary/criticism of English Imperialism and Colonialism and the horrendous toll it took on the peoples of Africa. Even the ending (Spoiler: It's microorganisms) is a comment that the myriad diseases of Africa were eventually the only thing that "saved" Africa from the utter dominance of European occupation.

    At the time, had Wells written a non-fantasy book about the same subject, he would have been looking at prison time for sedition against the crown, instead, he sold a best-seller about Martians attacking the Earth.

    --
    Life, the Universe, and Everything... in my image.
    1. Re:War of the Worlds by wonkavader · · Score: 1

      HG Wells is nothing short of amazing -- his predictions are very, very astute.

      But if you had to read just one book for a class like this, I'd recommend "When the Sleeper Awakes".

      Once in blue canvas, always in blue canvas.

  50. The Mandatory Five by sgt_doom · · Score: 2, Informative
    Please, to not have Iain Banks' The Player of Games is a major shortcoming. Truly THE CLASSIC of future fiction and quite thought-proking.

    Also, the following should be included as well:

    Drakon, by S.M. Stirling

    Watermind, by M.M. Buckner

    Improbable, by Adam Fawer (not listed as sci-fi, but definitely in the modern genre)

    and, of course, A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams

    1. Re:The Mandatory Five by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      What the heck? How old are you? I only ask because in your list of "classics," only Hitchhiker's Guide was published before 1997 -- and you could argue that Adams was more comedy than science fiction.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    2. Re:The Mandatory Five by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      What's the point of SF if it isn't current? ALL the items mentioned are forward thinking (and Banks' Player of Games will be a forever classic as it is so forward-oriented, unlike too much SF which exhibits one or two items or categories as futuristic, while all the remainder haven't changed at all).

  51. For Summer Reading: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm guessing that you have summer reading to start the course like we did when I was in High School. For that you would want one Sci-Fi title and one Fantasy. More importantly you want these books to be ones that the students will actually enjoy quite a bit. I would go with The Hobbit and Ender's Game for your summer reading. Ender's game, in my mind, is the title most likely to get the attention of high school students.

    The problem inherent with the entire Fantasy genre is that almost every good book is a part of a series, which requires you to read through the series in order to find out what happens. The Sci-Fi genre does this to a lesser extent, usually making the first book a self-contained story which also works into a part of a larger story. I think that the best choice is to exclude those series which do not have a conclusive ending to their first book.

  52. Ursula K. Le Guin for both sci-fi and fantasy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Ursula K. Le Guin

    for both sci-fi AND fantasy... which is awesome

    and one of her best sci-fi books, The Left Hand of Darkness, which won the Hugo and Nebula awards in 1970 (Dune did the same things), is bound to get the PTA's panties in a bunch due to it's discussions on sexuality (which, as an English teacher... is your JOB)

  53. As someone who once took such a course... by Hamshrew · · Score: 3, Informative

    I can tell you that you should explore the roots of speculative fiction and what it means. For example, here are the novels that we read in my class(which was admittedly a college-level course).

    Pilgrim's Progress (John Bunyan)
    The Invisible Man (Wells)
    The Hobbit (Tolkien) - Whatever you do, don't try to do so thoroughly. The Hobbit alone is a lot of material.
    The Neverending Story (Michael Ende) - HIGHLY recommend this one.
    Divine Right's Trip (Gurney Norman) - This was an excellent book that I still reference today, but is probably the first one on this list that I'd drop.
    Neuromancer (Gibson)

    We also covered numerous short stories. A few of the more memorable ones:

    The Cold Equations (Tom Godwin) - Excellent, if dated. there's a film of it, as well, but it added a lot of side material.
    The Celestial Railroad (Hawthorne) - Highly recommended after Pilgrim's Progress.
    The Last Question (Asimov) - Required reading.

    Heinlein is also an excellent choice, though we didn't cover it in my class.

    --
    - Free tabletop fantasy gaming! Grey Lotus
    1. Re:As someone who once took such a course... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also "The Chrysalids" was a really good read, maybe a slightly different genre, but very well written "what if?" type of book. See Wikipedia article:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chrysalids

    2. Re:As someone who once took such a course... by Morty · · Score: 1

      Ideally one should show not only some of the great sci fi out there but also show sci fi's unique roles in literature.

      Several people have pointed out Asimov's "The Last Question". It might also be informative to compare that with Asimov's "How it Happened" and at least one of C.S. Lewis's more religious Narnia novels ("The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe", "Voyage of the Dawn Treader", "The Last Battle", "The Magician's Nephew".)

      The classic Star Trek episode "Let That be Your Last Battlefield" is an opportunity to discuss sci fi as social commentary. If you prefer the written word, you can use "Fahrenheit 451" or even "The Running Man".

      Verne's "From the Earth to the Moon" is great for sci fi as inspiration.

      Card's "Ender's Game" has a great description of something very similar to modern web forums. Great for sci fi as prediction. [Of course, by then, Usenet existed for real.]

      Asimov's "The Feeling of Power" (or any of a number of Asimov's multivac stories) is great to demonstrate that sometimes, even sci fi authors fail to imagine aspects of the future, i.e. the miniaturization and cheapness of computers.

      In general, for each sci fi item, I would ask not just "why is this great sci fi?" but also "Why couldn't this be mainstream fiction?"

    3. Re:As someone who once took such a course... by 5.11Climber · · Score: 1

      I'm glad you mentioned speculative fiction as this opens the door to a couple of authors worth noting. John Crowley is an excellent writer and should be included in anyone's list of important writers. Little, Big should be on everyone's must read list. James Blaylock's tales, most based in Orange County, CA, are excellent as well. I recommend "The Christian Trilogy" highly.

      --
      Arf!
    4. Re:As someone who once took such a course... by turing_m · · Score: 1

      The Neverending Story (Michael Ende) - HIGHLY recommend this one.

      That book is nothing short of brilliant. Certainly one of the most addictive books I have ever read. His other famous work, Momo (The Grey Gentlemen) is also great.

      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    5. Re:As someone who once took such a course... by Bodrius · · Score: 1

      Seconded: both on the terminology and using short stories.

      Almost everywhere else in the world it's really all called "speculative fiction" for good reason - it is both more descriptive and more general than 'sci-fi'. You're also likely to find useful academic material and references under that label - which helps to put the material in context and connection with other literature. E.g.: Aldous Huxley, Jorge Luis Borges, Orwell all wrote 'sci-fi', but because they were 'serious writers' you'll probably not find those works under that heading.

      I'd also strongly recommend focusing on short stories over novels (although not exclusively) - because they tend to be more effective in literature courses and workshops. Short stories just provide more opportunity to read different plot ideas, styles and approaches and discuss and compare them.

      They *also* level the field for students with different interests: literature is subjective, and short stories mean more chances you'll find the type of fiction you love and understand better than anyone, and soon enough to motivate you. I remember many a highschool classmate who decided they didn't like reading fiction because they happened to hate the first 1-2 novels they had to read in class - and didn't like the classes because they were monopolized by the few who were *really* into those novels.

      In contrast, in college workshops we used mostly short stories, which anyone could be expected to read within a day - so if someone found a story insufferably boring, they'd still finish it and participate in informed discussions about *why* they hated it and how they compared to other fiction... instead of giving up and dozing in class waiting for it all to end.

      --
      Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
    6. Re:As someone who once took such a course... by swillden · · Score: 1

      The Cold Equations (Tom Godwin) - Excellent, if dated. there's a film of it, as well, but it added a lot of side material.

      This is a must have. I think "The Cold Equations" is one of the best science fiction short stories ever written.

      Synopsis: A young girl stows away on a small ship which has had its fuel requirements calculated to such precision that the addition of her weight will make it impossible for the ship to decelerate safely to a stop at its destination, which will doom the girl, the pilot and the recipients of the medicine that it's carrying. Policy requires that such stowaways be ejected into space before deceleration begins, but it's a policy born not of bureaucratic whim, but cold, hard engineering reality. There is nothing on board that can be jettisoned in her place. The pilot can't choose to sacrifice himself, because she could not land the craft. There is no way for the girl to survive, and only by spacing her can the pilot live, and save the girl's sick brother, who is among those who need the medicine.

      The girl knew she was breaking a rule when she stowed away, but she'd been raised, like all of us, in a world made mostly safe, where breaking rules meant a stern lecture or a slap on the wrist, not a summary execution. The pilot, for his part, has no desire to kill an innocent young girl who made a stupid mistake, but he has no choice.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    7. Re:As someone who once took such a course... by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

      The problem with the story is that it's set up so badly it defeats the point.
      There's more than enough mass on the ship to compensate. Worst case, the chick loses a leg, which is painful, but not deadly, what with the instant cauterization from the laser.

      The ship is one of the worst engineered spaceships I've read about as well. Here's an idea: Laser off the pointless closet door and throw it into space. There you go, you've made the ship safer, lighter, and more efficient. Oh, and toss out the sign as well. The pilot *should* be performing a pre-flight checklist, and a sign isn't going to be effective for the intended purpose, particularly such a badly composed one. Replace it with a heat sensor - as a bonus, you can now check your cargo. And what's with all the wasted volume? It's a freaking spaceship, you don't make anything bigger than you need to.

      This situation is so badly set up it's farcical. In some ways, it resembles the ending to the third X-men movie. "Oh no! (Bub) Jean's mutant powers are making her crazy. If only there were some way to stop her. Some sort of... mutant power destroying substance that was put into a form designed to make it easy to apply to an unwilling subject... nope, (Bub) guess I gotta kill her. Snikt!"

    8. Re:As someone who once took such a course... by swillden · · Score: 1

      Here's an idea: Laser off the pointless closet door and throw it into space.

      How do you know the door is pointless? Perhaps when closed it plays a significant part in the structure of the space ship?

      Oh, and toss out the sign as well.

      The sign needn't have any significant mass.

      The pilot *should* be performing a pre-flight checklist

      Yes, the pilot should have looked in the closet, and everywhere else, but maybe the launch has to be performed too quickly for that to be practical. And the ship's mass should have been determined empirically, not computationally, but maybe there's something about the physics of FTL flight that makes reliable measurements of large masses impossible.

      And what's with all the wasted volume? It's a freaking spaceship, you don't make anything bigger than you need to.

      Additional cargo space, for times when bulkier loads must be transported.

      Still, those nits are beside the point. The point of this story is the human drama that arises when people are faced with an unavoidable choice driven by the unyielding laws of physics. And how the simple mistakes of well-intentioned but foolish people can create those situations. To let it all play out, the author also needed to construct a situation where there was enough time for everyone involved to work through it, and the addition of the brother at the destination was needed to reinforce the pathos.

      I know you're saying that there are obvious ways out of the dilemma that don't allow you to fully appreciate the important parts of the story, but that's only because you don't exercise enough imagination. Begin by accepting that the designers of the spaceship were far smarter than you and that there really is nothing disposable, or wasted, and it's a great story.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    9. Re:As someone who once took such a course... by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

      There's a name for pilots who don't always do their pre-flight checklists.

      Dead.

      Doesn't matter if you're in a hurry. You do your preflight checklist.

  54. my $.02 by gonar · · Score: 1

    is this a semester course or a full year?

    Focus mainly on short stories that the kids can read in a couple hours. chose a few (3 max for a full year, 1 max for semester) medium length novels to dive deep in.

    stay away from Tolkien, except maybe some excerpts.

    great short stories are plentiful in Asimov's "complete short stories" vols 1 and 2. in particular, "the Ugly Little Boy"

    Clark's "nine billion names of god" is a tasty little bite that will make them think.

    "The Sleeper Awakes" by H. G. Wells is remarkable in terms both of what it got right and what it got wrong.

    cover a wide variety of genres (cyberpunk, space opera, hard, soft, fantasy/sci-fi blend)

    but remember to focus on what makes great sci fi great. great sci fi is great literature wrapped in a (usually) futuristic/alternate universe. all the things that make

    --
    The difference between Theory and Practice is greater in Practice than in Theory.
    1. Re:my $.02 by wonkavader · · Score: 1

      You are utterly right: They need to read short fiction (no massive tomes) and to avoid Tolkien, beyond fragments (though they could possibly read the Hobbit) and they need to read "The Sleeper Awakes" by Wells.

    2. Re:my $.02 by Xeavn · · Score: 1

      I have to agree with this. For high school students you may be expecting a lot if you want them to read through six or seven full length novels, and even if they do manage to read through all of those novels, you probably will just barely scratch the surface of good science and fantasy fiction. I would pick one to three medium length novels, and cover a much broader selection of short stories. A lot of the more well known authors have written short stories at one time or another, or have short stories that accompany their major works.

      For instance, George R. R. Martin's Game of Thrones is a very interesting novel, but might be much too long for high school students to reasonable read without taking up a good third of the year. His Hedge Knight novella on the other hand is much, much shorter, and might be the kind of thing you could cover in a week. That might even be too long. Short stories that are twenty to forty pages in length, and can be covered in a couple of days before moving on might be the best way to introduce the students to the wide range of science and fantasy fiction that exists.

  55. Ina word (name) by BlindRobin · · Score: 1

    Asimov. You must include Asimov as in his works we find the genesis of sciency science fiction joined with accessible social commentary ideal for introductory courses. The genres are overly broad for a single course so you should concentrate on shorter but apocryphal works without deep analysis of each but concentrate on the use of imagination and the power that science fiction and fantasy have to deeply explore the human condition(writ large) by distancing the reader from the contemporary milieu.

  56. Highest recommendation for this class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would highly recommend, if you can find it, "Microcosmic Tales: 100 SF short stories". It's a collection of short (some very short) that do a great job of presenting an idea for evaluation and discussion without a ton of superfluous dialogue.

    Ummm, and Starship Troopers, of course.

  57. 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 are a must by NoYob · · Score: 1
    Those two books have made it into our vernacular and in our everyday news. How many times have you seen "big brother" referred to in the news or commentary? Having them read the book would put it into context.

    Fahrenheit 451 is another one. Considering some of the ways that folks on the right and left are trying to ban certain types of literature and speech, that one is necessary.

    Those two books had more of a profound impact on me than any science fiction book ever.

    Starship Troopers is another one that will put into perspective the relationship of the military, the politicians, and the electorate. It'll put the idea in the kid's head that going to war is always a little more than "fighting for freedom" - especially when it's to go and liberate a country from a dictator in order to put back in the hands of a monarchy (Kuwait).

    Friday - no real literary value but it'll keep the little hornballs interested.

    --
    It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
  58. Re:i'm not trying to be a troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In a good school there will be plenty of both English and Science courses. Both are usually required for graduation, so there is no loss in taking a SF/Fantasy English class along with Chemistry/Biology/etc. In fact, the SF English class should get the creative brain thinking about how to take what you've learned in the sciences and apply it to something that hasn't been done before. I was fortunate enough to have a SF/Fantasy class offered at my High School (along with Humor and several other focused English courses). I took them alongside of my Chemistry, Physics, and Computer Science classes and really enjoyed them all. I'm been a EE for years and haven't looked back!

  59. A few other names to consider... by farrellj · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You can get more people reading if you give them books that will catch there interest. Throwing Dune and Stranger in a Strange Land might scare off some newer readers...so it's always good to get some sort of a tie-in that they can relate to...and a good example of that would be Robert J. Sawyer's Flashfoward , which has the tie-in of the TV series based upon it. This leads to all sorts of great discussion topics for students about how Media interacts with Art.

    Another to consider is Cory Doctorow's Little Brother . In this book, the main chracactors are high school students dealing with both mundane questions of teenage life, and fairly deep questions about freedom, authority and technology. And the technology is current, so that it will appeal greatly to today's high school i/n/m/a/t/e/s/ students.

    --
    CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
    1. Re:A few other names to consider... by Squiggle · · Score: 1

      I second Little Brother. For high school students I could see it being a great inspiration to pursue further scifi, learn about all the deeper aspects of how freedom and technology interact, and most importantly feel like they can get engaged and make a difference.

      --
      Complexity Happens
    2. Re:A few other names to consider... by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      I would agree except that I don't. I read Dune and a bunch of the books that came after it when I was in middle school and liked them. Stranger in a Strange land I didn't read until a couple years ago but I don't see why I wouldn't have liked it when I was much younger as it's much easier to follow than Dune was.

    3. Re:A few other names to consider... by farrellj · · Score: 1

      If this had been a reading class for existing SF Fans, I would have agreed with you, but as it is aimed at attracting relatively new readers, or new readers, I don't.

      --
      CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
  60. 9 more books! by El+Jynx · · Score: 1

    Julian May's Pliocene Exile series is absolutely brilliant as well (and entertaining). Near LOTR in its own way.

    --
    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it well worth the effort.
    1. Re:9 more books! by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 1

      Julian May's Pliocene Exile series is absolutely brilliant

      I've never heard about this before, can you give any more details?

      --
      If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    2. Re:9 more books! by khendron · · Score: 1

      Misfits from future Earth society escape six millions years into the past through a one-way time gate, only to find that the pliocene-era Earth is dominated by an alien species with artificially enhanced mind powers.

      Hmmm, sounds silly when I type it out, but it is one of the most brilliant series I have read. What really makes it stand out is that, unlike most authors, Julian May will readily kill off major characters. So you are never sure who is going to make it to the end of the story.

      I enjoyed this series so much I named my cats Julian and May ;-)

      --
      Life is like a web application. Sometime you need cookies just to get by.
    3. Re:9 more books! by fredklein · · Score: 1

      Misfits from future Earth society escape six millions years into the past through a one-way time gate...

      Not to threadjack, but I always thought that was an interesting thought experiment. Imagine, if you will a "Stargate"-like gateway that leads not to other planets, but to other times. Now, imagine you're about to step through that 'timegate' on a one-way trip to the past. You can end up anywhere on earth, and anywhere from roughly 120 years ago to about 12000 years ago. (The gateway is built to avoid paradox, so you will not step thru into a more recent time period, because then, as you live your life, you risk interacting with someone who will later interact with yourself before you stepped thru.... Oh, okay! it's just a way to make sure you end up far enough back that it's interesting.)

      You can take anything you want with you on your trip, with the following conditions: It must exist (no phasers or tricorders), or be reasonably manufacturable (you want a stack of DVDs containing the text of the Library of Congress? Okay!), and, you MUST carry it through the time gate. You can put it down after you step through, but you must be carrying it when you step through.

      A few additional points: the grandfather paradox doesn't come into effect, because you are actually being transported into a parallel universe exactly like ours (up to the point where you appear out of thin air in the past). Or our universe splits in two when you step through into the past. You weren't quite sure which the scientists meant (if indeed the two are different). In any case, you can muck about all you want, and not have to worry about making yourself never having had existed.

      Oh, and even though our planet is 3/4 covered in water, you will step through onto land. And there will be a reasonably-sized group of humans nearby, but you will not be spotted stepping through the gate. You might wind up in the Sahara desert, with a caravan a few dunes away, or in a middle of a Nor'easter with a tribe of native Americans at the other end of the valley. Or monsoon season in India with Alexander the Great attacking. Or a small Pacific ocean island with a native village nearby. You get the drift.

      So, what's the point of all this? To decide what you would bring with you. Do you want to try to survive all on your own? (bring plenty of food, and instructions how to catch and preserve more) Or will you try to assimilate into the local culture? (language lessons, a good history text, maybe makeup?) Will you try to set yourself up as a God? (Fireworks? Guns? Devices with flashing LEDs to awe the natives)? Or maybe set yourself up as a craftsman (knowledge of various engineering techniques, chemical and physical properties of various substances needed)

      Anyway, I think it's an interesting thought experiment to play around with when you have a few minutes to waste. Now, let's see, should I take a handgun, or a crossbow? I would easily run out of ammo for the handgun, but it's small size would be good for personal defense, but if I go back far enough, I could sell the design for the crossbow....

    4. Re:9 more books! by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      Julian May's 'Pliocene' series was an excellent read. I have to agree there. Along with the 'classics', I'd suggest some of my old favorites.

      Roger Zelazney's Madwand series. Piers Anthony...almost anything from him ( "Mute", "Macroscope", and for a nice religious/social discussion, the Tarot Series as well as the 'Cluster' series).

      David Eddings (The Belgariad). Anything from Greg Bear. Jack L Chalker (4 Lords of the Diamond, and Well World). Stephen R Donaldson's 'The Chronicals of Thomas Convenant'.

    5. Re:9 more books! by soluzar22 · · Score: 1

      I hope you're joking about David Eddings, since his work seems to me simplistic in the extreme and a perfect example of how to write boring fantasy by the numbers. Especially when your next choice of author is the excellent Greg Bear, this seems bizarre.

  61. Stross by Frogg · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Accelerando - Charlie Stross

    simply superb! :)

  62. Some of my favs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cryptonomicon, by Neal Stephenson (although perhaps a tad long for such a course)
    Starship Troopers, by Robert Heinlein
    Wastelands: Stories of the Apocalypse, by multiple authors
    World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War, by Max Brooks
    The Island Of Doctor Moreau, by H.G. Wells
    The Invisible Man, by HG Wells

  63. Unless you want students trying to fuck their moms by StealthyRoid · · Score: 3, Funny

    Avoid Heinlein. He's only got like 3 good books anyway (Starship Troopers, Moon is a Harsh Mistress [best sci fi book ever], and half each of Stranger and Cat), and subjecting anyone to that convoluted, Oedipus-driven Lazarus Long shit at an early age is either going to turn them off the genre, or make them try to mount their mothers.

  64. An essential timeline by solune · · Score: 1

    An excellent choice for this course is "War of the Worlds," by H.G. Wells. Not only is the original great, but using that tale you can explore how science-fiction is perceived and used throughout history.

    For example, the Original, as written by Wells, is a fantastical tale; the 1950's version incorporated 50's paranoia, and the Tom Cruise one was merely FX crap.

    The manner of story-telling varied with the versions, as have other popular book-to-movie titles: The invisible man, for example, became the lamentable "The hollow man" with bacon.

    Heinlein is seen as a fictional father for more libertarian/liberal concepts, glossing over some science facts for character and story development, while many authors currently strive for scientific accuracy within their tales.

  65. Jules Verne, Robert E. Howard by jbezorg · · Score: 1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Verne

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Howard

    Both pioneered a genre.

    --
    I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
  66. Don't mix literature courses and SF by russotto · · Score: 5, Funny

    Heinlein, _Friday_. Because the parents are going to complain anyway, so you might as well give them a reason. Bonus points for the 1983 cover.

    1. Re:Don't mix literature courses and SF by TXISDude · · Score: 1

      I think Friday would be an awesome movie . . . think of casting her!

      --
      Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
    2. Re:Don't mix literature courses and SF by dpilot · · Score: 3, Informative

      Heck, if you really want to shock the parents with Heinlein, try "Job: A Comedy of Justice". My wife and I were reading it with each other through part of the labor of our second child. I think the monitoring nurse was either religious or a bit fundamentalist - at any rate she was awfully quiet, moreso than other nurses, or even she was before we began reading.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    3. Re:Don't mix literature courses and SF by JDAustin · · Score: 1

      I'd swear that the South Park creators came up with their visions of Hell after reading Job.

    4. Re:Don't mix literature courses and SF by Ruvim · · Score: 1

      Just call it SyFy courses -- they will love it!

    5. Re:Don't mix literature courses and SF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I named my daughter Friday....

    6. Re:Don't mix literature courses and SF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      finally. was about to wonder if I was going to have to bring up Job. I went to a christian high school, had I shown up reading that, I think I'd have been asked a bit about my moral values. there was no Heinlen in my school library, the rest of the authors were there, no Heinlein.

      for the record, my college science fiction class, did it a bit better. I have a couple of reads to add.

      A door into ocean by Joan Slonczewski. that's a great read. yes, it's a feminist novel, but it's worth it.
      Canticle was already mentioned.
      The Sparrow. that's a great one. I didn't like it so much because a lot of what happened, but if you're looking for a possible what if first contact scenario gone out of control read it. it's slightly relgious as well, but not so overly.
      I notice no one puts in Ender's game. I would recommend that for a high school audience, also the Shadow series as well that went counter to it.

      there's another book, I can't remember the name, but it takes place on a planet where everyone there (with the exception of the narrator) are hermaphrodties, and the narrator is on the planet trying to decide if the planet is worthy enough to join the galactic confederation of planets or whatever they called it. if anyone's read this and remembers what I'm refering to, I'd be happy.

  67. University of Nottingham had this class by dowobeha · · Score: 1

    I took an excellent Science Fiction literature class at the University of Nottingham (England) several years ago. I don't remember everything that we read, but I know that there were some truly mind-bending Phillip K. Dick short stories regarding time paradoxes. If you contact their English department, I'm sure the prof who taught the course could provide some good reading suggestions.

    --
    I am concerned about any program, any piece of hardware, any treaty, any law that treats me as a consumer, not a citizen
    1. Re:University of Nottingham had this class by dubbreak · · Score: 1

      Phillip K. Dick is an excellent author for high school studies. He was a prolific short story writer and short stories make for easier analysis and review (some are short enough to read through and briefly discuss in a class). Plus he covered a broad variety of topics, all of which are still valid (i.e. his writing is timeless).

      The electric ant comes to mind as a good story. Paycheque was quite a short read but excellent. My favorite (but a little longer) is A Scanner Darkly. Screamers is short and interesting.. the list goes on and on. Also, many movies have been based off his work (all poorly interpreted imho), which could help generate interest in his work.

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
  68. Cold Equations by new+death+barbie · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "The Cold Equations" a short story by Tom Godwin (wiki'd the author). It's been 40 years and I still remember the story, that says something. I remember hating the story, because unlike most pulp SF at the time, it didn't have a happy ending; in fact I cried.

    I hated it, and I recommend it. You'll hate it too.

    --

    It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.

    1. Re:Cold Equations by jdeisenberg · · Score: 1

      +1. "The Cold Equations" is one of my all-time favorites. Unhappy ending, but the story would not have worked otherwise.

    2. Re:Cold Equations by Omeganon · · Score: 1

      I remember this one clearly as well. I'll never stow-away aboard a spaceship as long as I live!

      --
      Omeganon
    3. Re:Cold Equations by Drongo14 · · Score: 1

      Oh yes, I remember that one. It chilled me to the bone. I hated it like Brussels sprouts... ... and boy is it a good story. For me it's been 'only' 30 years, but nevertheless...

      And I recommend it.

    4. Re:Cold Equations by RandomJoe · · Score: 1

      Hey, wow. I stumbled across the SciFi TV show version one night while sitting in a hotel room on a business trip, never saw it again but remember the story well. Didn't know it was based on a book, I'll have to get it now.

    5. Re:Cold Equations by lagomorpha2 · · Score: 1

      Wow I remember that story from middle school. We had to all write alternate endings, that got kind of weird. Good story.

  69. Arthur C. Clarke by MartinSchou · · Score: 1

    Arthur C. Clarke has some awesome short stories.

    "Nectar of the Gods"
    "The Last Command"
    "Reunion"
    "The Light of Darkness"
    "Neutron Tide"
    "Transit of Earth"

    None of these stories are that long. Maybe 5 pages at the most I think. Easily read, not all of them SciFi in the "future" sense, but in the "fiction based in science" sense.

  70. William Gibson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    William Gibson's Neuromancer is a must. As is probably something by Jack Womack (Random Acts of Senseless Violence perhaps), Bruce Sterling (A Good Old Fashioned Future) and definitely Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash. Easy!

  71. If you were looking for something interesting... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

    ... to talk about, I'd choose "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison.

    Of course, if you're trying to keep your job...

    --
    That is all.
  72. Fortunately by Artuir · · Score: 1

    Luckily I was able to take a course like this in my junior year in high school (admittedly this was back in 1998/99). While I can't remember every project we did, the teacher was really into it and the class was very enjoyable. The three biggest things we did that I remember were watching (and/or reading if a film and book were both made, to compare the versions) Blade Runner, Ender's Game and 1984. Those three have stuck with me and made a very big impression, so I'd wager they're a good starting point. Most of the students really enjoyed them and class discussion was always a lot of fun when so much genuine interest was present.

  73. Re:i'm not trying to be a troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously? Were you homeschooled or something? Students in American high schools, or at least in all the states I'm familiar with, are required to take 4 years of english/literature classes. This science fiction course fits into that, rather than replacing any science courses.

  74. DUNE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot, you disappoint me! I fully expected to see Dune by Frank Hebert in the first comment! Dune is an epic science fiction story thick, rich, and fully immersed in philosophy, sociology, politics, general sci-fi-ness, with a dose of awesome!

    Also, Iain M. Banks' works on The Culture novel series is absolutely epic as well.

    I think if Iain M. Banks and Frank Hebert were ever to collaborate (too bad it's not possible now) on a science fiction novel, I think my head would explode in a brain orgasm of epic proportions.

  75. Level 7 by Raul654 · · Score: 1

    I'm sure there are plenty of people here who are going to mention the same few authors, so I'm going to go out on a limb and recommend a couple of obscure ones:

    If you're aiming for a scifi-as-it-parallels-history motif, I think the best you can do is Level 7 by Mordecai Roshwald. It's a short, gripping story about a soldier whose is to live in a bunker and press the big red button during a nuclear war.

    Two others that are personal favorites of mine are:
    (1) "Casca" by Barry Sadler. It's about a roman soldier who is cursed by Jesus to be immortal.
    (2) Startide Rising by David Brin. Not terribly obscure, but this one is my favorite Scifi novel of all time.

    --


    To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
    --E.C. Stanton
  76. Your question is too broad. by Bootsy+Collins · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You might as well have asked people to name their favorite fantasy or sci-fi authors; you're going to get zillions of lists of recommendations without much guidance on what to pick and why.

    IMHO, you need to look at that course description and ask questions like "Can you suggest some high quality fantasy or sci-fi works that have as their core theme "the relationship of humans with their environment" or "the nature of intelligence" or whatever.

    Two recommendations I'd make:

    1. Don't be afraid to go old (H.G. Wells _The Time Machine_, for instance, attempts to make some provocative claims about what happens to an increasingly technological society -- remarkable given when it was written).

    2. Steer away from huge works. LOTR is my favorite fantasy book; but books like that are too big. They prevent you from reading too much other stuff because of time constraints.

    1. Re:Your question is too broad. by Bootsy+Collins · · Score: 1

      Addendum to the size recommendation: when I was in HS, we read A Canticle for Leibowitz in an AP English class. That's about as big a book as I'd recommend.

    2. Re:Your question is too broad. by glasserc · · Score: 1

      I would argue that you need to not go old. Science fiction is too focused on the past, with negative effects for its present. Excellent reading in this vein is Science Fiction Without the Future, an essay by Judith Berman.

      I'd recommend new, fresh, and exciting work in science fiction. My favorite authors in this vein are Charles Stross and Cory Doctorow, but YMMV.

      Depending on what your goal is, I think you should be looking for works that make the students look up and say "Wow! I never thought about that!"

    3. Re:Your question is too broad. by story645 · · Score: 1

      I think you've given some of the most sensible suggestions I've seen. Especially about length. LoTR alone would eat up a good month and a half, probably more. The poster could get away with it if he's got a very history focused track, but otherwise not worth it.

      He posted the theme, it's in the course description:

      Through this course, students will utilize analytical skills and reading strategies to evaluate our current situation and project into the literature of different worlds while sharing and learning of an author's insight.

      Paraphrased: find contemporary similarities to sci-fi fantasy worlds. He could probably use any sci-fi book out their, but he's gotta sell the contemporary parallel.

      also adding:
      3. Use books that are good examples of literature. It's a high school English class, so this is one of the few times to expose students to good uses of language before they hit college. Please make use of this. I adore sci-fi and fantasy, but often the writing wavers between half decent and mediocre.

      The author's in his list (Verne, Clarke, Tolkien, Bradbury, and LeGuin, Card, Jordan, and Vinge) will take up a decent amount of the semester, so he can stick to those. Just make sure the books are a good choice for the students in the class. LeGuin's Left Hand of Darkness is a classic text on sexuality; it's also infamously dense. If the kids don't get the book on any level, it's extra work. Parts of Vinge's stuff borders on soft porn, not a good idea if the school is very conservative.

      4. Be careful with anything too contemporary, 'cause sometimes the parallels are so blatent that the students don't really need to think about them. (Harry Potter comes to mind, as does Neal Stephanson's Snow Crash.) Sci-fantasy novels set on present day earth (like much of Neil Gaimen's stuff) are also problematic for this reason.

      --
      open source modern art: laser taggi
    4. Re:Your question is too broad. by conureman · · Score: 1

      This is why I wouldn't recommend The Hobbit, or any of the Heinlein kid's books (Red Planet, Podkayne...) because they're fun to read, but don't really provoke a lot of deep issues. Well, Heinlein was always good for iconoclasm & cynicism, start 'em young, eh...

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    5. Re:Your question is too broad. by conureman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, LoTR is a hell of a lot of book to show that it's important to stand up, when duty calls. A worthy message, to be sure, but someone ought to know a briefer version of that issue. (I can't think of one right now, War and Peace, Gulag Archipelago, not only comparable length, but not even fantasy...)

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    6. Re:Your question is too broad. by Runc · · Score: 1

      ...ask questions like "Can you suggest some high quality fantasy or sci-fi works that have as their core theme "the relationship of humans with their environment" or "the nature of intelligence" or whatever.

      "The Machine Stops" E M Forster.

      Yes, the "Passage to India" and "Howards End" Forster. It's a short story in response to H G Wells, with a theme of mankind's dependence on (and unthinking acceptance of) technology, and withdrawal from a "natural" environment towards a "virtual" one. Students should appreciate that even authors of the literary cannon saw sci-fi as a valid means of expression. It was written in 1909, so that's a nice 100 year distance between Forster's forecasting of a televisual, networked society and its reality to discuss. Its also available online at http://www.plexus.org/forster/index.html

  77. Not an afficianado, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    For my money, David Brinn and Bruce Sterling have both changed the way I view the world.

    Brinn focuses on the environment and the possible consequences of ignoring the world's current challenges. His book Earth is a good example. The lesser perils of population, pollution and economics are overshadowed by the threat of an updated Frankenstein's monster, and the presentation is not very sophisticated, but the current set of environmental challenges is laid out rather succinctly.

    Bruce Sterling brings a more biting social commentary to his opus. Snow Crash, The Diamond Age and Holy Fire all challenged me to view my own experience of the world in a new light. Reading Holy Fire, in particular, caused me look at healthcare in a completely different light, that of the "medical industrial complex," where Show Crash contained an indictment of nanotechnologies all-but-unresearched potential health consequences, and The Diamond Age presented a very cool virtual educational technology along with an explanation of why you'll never see it in public education. (It's the economics, stupid!)

    Both these authors weave a compelling storyline around characters that are sympathetic enough to encourage any reader with an imagination to use it. I didn't realize why their writing was effective until an acquaintance pointed out that what is presented as fiction has to be grounded in reality in order to be believable.

    Go forth and imagine...

    1. Re:Not an afficianado, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bruce Sterling is an untalented hack who substitutes ponderous social commentary for plot. Snow Crash and Diamond Age are excellent books written by someone else: Neal Stephenson.

    2. Re:Not an afficianado, but... by PeterBrett · · Score: 1

      Bruce Sterling brings a more biting social commentary to his opus. Snow Crash, The Diamond Age and Holy Fire all challenged me to view my own experience of the world in a new light. Reading Holy Fire, in particular, caused me look at healthcare in a completely different light, that of the "medical industrial complex," where Show Crash contained an indictment of nanotechnologies all-but-unresearched potential health consequences, and The Diamond Age presented a very cool virtual educational technology along with an explanation of why you'll never see it in public education. (It's the economics, stupid!)

      Um. I think you'll find that Snow Crash and The Diamond Age are by Neal Stephenson, not Bruce Sterling (who indeed wrote Holy Fire).

      I think you'd also enjoy Stephenson's latest book, Anathem.

    3. Re:Not an afficianado, but... by Cassander · · Score: 1

      Bruce Sterling brings a more biting social commentary to his opus. Snow Crash, The Diamond Age and Holy Fire all challenged me to view my own experience of the world in a new light.

      Snow Crash and Diamond Age (both excellent books) were written by Neal Stephenson, not Bruce Sterling.

      --
      Knowledge != Intelligence
  78. Snow Crash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...see above title, that is all.

    1. Re:Snow Crash by xyph0r · · Score: 0

      Seconding Snow Crash. It's a brilliant book written by a brilliant author. If you're being a genre-nazi, it's post-cyberpunk.. so a sub-subgenre of SciFi. For cases that have directly influenced society, Snow Crash isn't an awful example. The Metaverse is the inspiration behind... erm... Second Life. But apart from that, it's a good read. Heavily recommended.

      --
      SQL programmer goes to a bar. Walks up to two tables and says 'Excuse me, may I join you?'.
  79. Please re-read any potential choices! by Savior_on_a_Stick · · Score: 1

    A lot of the recommendations I see here are ones I would make - except for just about any classics which I have recently read.

    A lot of the authors don't hold up well.

    Now, I know I'll catch some guff here - but have you re-read any Heinlein lately?

    The guy had very little original to begin with, and then later in his career he recycled his body of work a bit too vigorously for my taste.

    Essentially, you could read a bad Junior College term paper touting the joys of Libertarianism and skip his last 8 or 10 books.

    Asimov holds up well, as does some Clarke.

    Farmer was never a great writer - though I do like that he stole his story ideas from L. Ron Hubbard - that takes enormous chutzpah.

    Bottom line is this:

    If you know literature - pick good literature that is also sci fi - which specific work doesn't matter.

    If you don't know literature - and sci fi - this project will fall on it's ass.

    1. Re:Please re-read any potential choices! by russotto · · Score: 1

      Now, I know I'll catch some guff here - but have you re-read any Heinlein lately?

      The guy had very little original to begin with, and then later in his career he recycled his body of work a bit too vigorously for my taste.

      Heinlein had a stroke in 1978, and a lot of the work after that shows it. That still leaves a LOT of good stuff.

  80. short stories by cretog8 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Stick to short stories, exclusively or almost exclusively. Short stories have always been the medium which best captures SF, gets to the point the, "here's an idea, let's explore it some" nature of SF, while when things expand out to novel size it loses some of that (in spite of many great SF novels).

    Plus, doing short stories makes it easier to keep people's attention, and less likely to lose people who've fallen a few chapters behind in the reading. Either you've read the story or you haven't. Changing stories day by day / week by week / whatever means you can get different styles in that appeal to different kids and break any monotony. It also gives you more flexibility to change your mind about course direction in the middle-if it seems like a good time to change direction, you don't have to finish slogging through the current novel first.

    Also, you're not going to be able to cover the span of what you'd like to cover in one class, you'll have to leave things out. If you go with novels, you'll have to leave more things out.

    1. Re:Short Stories by krystar · · Score: 1

      agreed. short stories are a great resource of SF. also, don't be afraid to mix it up with watching some scifi movies. maybe some old school Logan's Run, the orig Planet of the Apes, or something else. :)

    2. Re:Short Stories by Bodhammer · · Score: 1

      I also concur with the short stories but I would include at least a couple of the classics in long form.
      My suggestions...
      Long: Dune, Fahrenheit 451, Starship Troopers, Stranger in a Strange Land, Neuromancer, 1984, Ringworld, Bolo (Keith Laumer)
      Short: The Past Through Tomorrow (collection), Burning Chrome (Collection), Sandkings (George RR Martin novella), Anthem (Ayn Rand)

      --
      "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
    3. Re:short stories by RPGonAS400 · · Score: 1
      I wholeheartedly agree that the stories need to be SHORT as well as fairly diverse.

      Short - as a parent of a number of past, present, and future high school students, it amazes me how much homework kids have these days. I had less than 10 hours of homework in grades K-12 TOTAL. We got time in class to do assignments and I got a great education. Times are different now also in high school. My 2 oldest ones in HS have jobs, sports, church activities, etc. I would hate it if they were assigned something like the entire LOTR (50 hours in mp3 format). My sister-in-law was a poor reader and was forced to read Crime and Punishment in HS which turned her off to reading like nothing else could have.

      Diverse - this should be almost like a taste test at the food court. If what is chosen holds their interest they will develop their tastes accordingly. If they are forced into long stories they do not like it will turn them off for good.

  81. Nerds by FireofEvil · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nerds belong in a sci-fi/fantasy lit class. but on a more serious note, The Last Question by Isaac Asimov should definitely be on the list.

    1. Re:Nerds by gustolove · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up.

  82. Errr.. asking the obvious question by lena_10326 · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't a literature teacher already know this list? It's foundational stuff any literature teacher ought to know, so I hope this is not representative. If this was my kid's literature teacher, I'd be nervous. It's like an automotive teacher taking a poll on what make of autos he should teach.

    --
    Camping on quad since 1996.
    1. Re:Errr.. asking the obvious question by conureman · · Score: 1

      It's making me notice that I haven't read much of any fiction for the last 30 years (Jean Auell and Jo Rowling are all I can think of), just history and other non-fiction. If flogger can winnow three good picks, that he didn't know of, out of this /. string, then it'll be worth his while. Heck, I might even take someone's suggestion, if they can give a better reason than "it's a classic" or "not to be missed", mpphh.

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  83. More forced reading? Ugh. by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

    What do we actually gain by forcing people to read something? I'd rather see a class where high school students learn about different methods of writing, worldbuilding, character development, etc., through the course of the semester, and apply that toward a short story that they write.

    You could provide suggested reading and encourage students to read it by saying, "This is how award-winning authors have used these tools." But don't make it mandatory, because that's just going to turn people off to it.

    --
    !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
  84. West + East by Vovk · · Score: 1
    Frank Herbert most definitely for western Sci/Fi - I wouldn't call it a sci fi class if it didn't have Dune! Though, to be honest, you could spend an entire year on that book alone.

    Mikhail Bulgakov's "The Master and Margarita" is a crazy dark Fantasy which makes incredible social commentary about early Soviet Society. Oh yeah, it also features Satan in an almost positive light (well... he kills and maims, but he only kills and maims people who had it coming in the first place, mostly the greedy hypocritical high class members of the communist party)

    To really get a good feel over the books, I think you should spend around 2 to 3 weeks on the short ones, and up to 4 weeks on the longer/more dense reads. You should have frequent in class discussions, probably 3 per week (a discussion a day is even better! with the exclusion of some days for writing practice). so, 1.5 books a month should give a reading list of 4-5 books a semester. 10 books total in the year (maybe 12 if you are fast, but no more or you start to lose depth).

    in no particular order.
    • Isaac Asimov's Foundation
    • Isaac Asimov's I Robot
    • Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451
    • Ray Bradbury's Martian Chronicles
    • Frank Herbert's Dune
    • Mikhail Bulgakov's Master and Margarita
    • George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones
    • A study of some of HP Lovecraft's best stories, The Mountains of Madness, Herbert West Reanimator, etc
    • Edgar Allen Poe's works right after or right before Lovecraft's, to see some of poe's influence on Lovecraft
    • Tolkien's Fellowship
    • Tolkien's Towers
    • Tolkien's Return
    • and that's 12... hmm... you need more for backup :D. Frankenstein is a good book, as well as 1984, Ender's Game, Brave New World, and probably alot more that I can't think of right now.

      I wish I had a class like this in high school :(

    1. Re:West + East by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

      Frank Herbert most definitely for western Sci/Fi - I wouldn't call it a sci fi class if it didn't have Dune!

      Good lord, no. Way to long a book. In the time it takes the students to read this, they could read a hundred short stories.

      Though, to be honest, you could spend an entire year on that book alone.

      Yep, you got it.

      Mikhail Bulgakov's "The Master and Margarita" is a crazy dark Fantasy which makes incredible social commentary about early Soviet Society.

      Good thinking, but instead I think I'd pick the first novella of Sergei Lukyananko's Night Watch (which is actually a collection of three linked novellas), a bit more modern.

      in no particular order.
      Isaac Asimov's Foundation
      Isaac Asimov's I Robot

      Both collections of short stories. Pick one from each.

      Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451

      It's an old standard in high schools; they will have already read it and been bored silly with it.

      Ray Bradbury's Martian Chronicles

      A collection of short stories. Pick one.

      Frank Herbert's Dune
      Mikhail Bulgakov's Master and Margarita

      no (discussed above)

      George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones

      Way too long. Martin is a brilliant short story writer, though, think about picking one of his stories. (I myself would pick "Way of Cross and Dragon," but probably too controversial for a school text.)

      A study of some of HP Lovecraft's best stories, The Mountains of Madness, Herbert West Reanimator, etc

      Not a bad idea. You can probably just pick one. If it resonates with them, they'll find the rest!

      Edgar Allen Poe's works right after or right before Lovecraft's, to see some of poe's influence on Lovecraft

      Good idea, although he actually did very little SF.

      Tolkien's Fellowship
      Tolkien's Towers
      Tolkien's Return

      No, no, and hell no. Sorry, way too long, and unfortunately, Tolkein was not really a short story writer, so there's no way out that way. In any case, most of the students will have probably already read them.

      and that's 12... hmm... you need more for backup :D. Frankenstein is a good book

      Because of its role in the genesis of science fiction, you may have to do this one.

      as well as 1984

      it reads a bit dated these days, I'm afraid.

      Ender's Game

      Go for the novella version. In any case, all of the male students will have read it.

      Brave New World

      Mixed feelings on this one-- again, it's a bit quaint, but Hux really had some good stuff in it.

      and probably alot more that I can't think of right now.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    2. Re:West + East by Vovk · · Score: 1

      Hmm... maybe you're right about the length of the books. I took an AP english class in our high school, so length of the books really didn't matter. You stayed up reading them until you were done =^3

      I suppose if you were offering a class to people who just liked science fiction, but didn't want to do the heavy reading of an advanced lit class then you'd cut down to short stories.

      Re: Asimov, iRobot and the First Foundation book are short enough that you could read every short story in them with relative ease. Plus, you really NEED to read all of the stories of the First foundation book to "get" the book.

      About 451, I suppose it is done to death these days. I'll give you that one :)

      Anyway, it is QUITE possible to read all of those books (yes, even tolkien) in one year if your students really care about Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels. Hell, just reading a Game of Thrones for fun takes me only 2 days, all of the LOTR took me 1 week. It all depends on how much you really want to read the books ^_^

    3. Re:West + East by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mikhail Bulgakov's "The Master and Margarita" is a crazy dark Fantasy which makes incredible social commentary about early Soviet Society.

      Good thinking, but instead I think I'd pick the first novella of Sergei Lukyananko's Night Watch (which is actually a collection of three linked novellas), a bit more modern.

      My anonymous coward post below was still ranked 0, so I assume most people missed it. I love M&M, both mainstream translations, but the two harder science fiction stories would be much better for a short class (Heart of a Dog and Fatal Eggs):

      http://www.lib.ru/BULGAKOW/dogheart_engl.txt
      http://www.lib.ru/BULGAKOW/eggs_engl.txt

      The Watch Series is also very good. If you can get a copy, I would also recommend "Danilov the Violist" by Orlov. It's a very good read, but not something to shove on a class.

      http://www.amazon.com/Danilov-violist-novel-Vladimir-Orlov/dp/068804655X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254857143&sr=8-1

      If you're going to do H.P. Lovecraft, you should pair him up with Robert Howard (Conan), and show how the two wrote Cthulu stories. It will be EXTREMELY hard to get those writers on a cirriculum, though (IMHO Howard is one of the best American writers of the 20th century, prose and story-wise).

      I do want to give applause at someone else suggesting Master and Margarita, though. It's often overlooked.

  85. Stanislaw Lem by bloody_liberal · · Score: 1

    I second other comments above: Lem is a genius. I don't get Solaris, but "The Cyberiad" is excellent political satire, and "Perfect Vacuum" might even be too hard for them. BTW, if "fantasy" is taken in the broad sense, then what about Borges?

  86. Harry Turtledove's Alternate Histories by Brandee07 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    You've already got Asimov and Clarke and all the big classics. Of these, I personally recommend The Edge of Tomorrow, a collection of Asimov essays and short stories, before you get them started on the full-length novels. It was my first Asimov book, back in middle school, and it has all of the best short stories that you'll want to include. "The Last Question" in particular can spawn a number of discussions, on religion, on human nature, and even on Asimov's projection of the development of technology.

    Because this class is suppose to be educational, Harry Turtledove's alternate histories are a great option- they require the students to learn the details of our own history before they can understand what makes the alternate realities in these books tick. It also challenges them to view actual history as something more than a series of names and dates; a concept my teachers in high school never bothered with.

    1. Re:Harry Turtledove's Alternate Histories by wannabegeek2 · · Score: 1

      A thousand additional points for starting with Asimov's "The Edge of Tomorrow". The stories are short, and most have a clear moral or social context. They also provide entry to many of the Asimov basics such as the three laws of robotics, and the "thinking computer".

      --
      Never ascribe to malice or conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
    2. Re:Harry Turtledove's Alternate Histories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, I definitely recommend Turtledove. His Crosstime Traffic series is even geared to high-school age readers; they work OK standalone, so pick a concept that will interest your students and they may just be hooked.

  87. To underscore the "contemporary" influence.. by davebooth · · Score: 1

    Get a class subscription to "Analog" and relate both the editorials and the shorter stories (ie not the big serialized ones) to world events occurring in the previous year. Obviously the editorial in each issue will be relating to more recent events than the stories...

    --
    I had a .sig once. It got boring.
  88. Another Name to Consider by knarfling · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A classic SF writer that is often forgotten is Fredric Brown. Although his SF stories are often short (usually less that 1000 words) they are totally amazing and stand the test of time very well. One of his more famous short stories, "Arena" was used as the basis of a Star Trek episode by the same name.

    I personally liked his several short stories that dealt with time travel and the many ways that people tried to deal with them. My favorite story, "The End", deals with what would really happen if someone could make time run backwards.

    The real brilliance of his writing is that he could make you think without delving into political commentary and do it in just a few words. His stories were descriptive enough that you could picture the worlds he described, but not so descriptive that they limited the story to a particular time or place. Stories written in 1954 could have easily been written in 1994. In other words, truly timeless science fiction, something that is very, very difficult to do.

    I will get off my soap box now, with a quote from Fredric Brown.

    "The last man on earth sat alone in a room. There was a knock at the door..."

    --
    Great civilizations have lived and died on false theories. Don't mess up mine with a few facts.
    1. Re:Another Name to Consider by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      Although his SF stories are often short (usually less that 1000 words)

      In a classroom setting, short stories could be very usefull for one day assignements.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    2. Re:Another Name to Consider by Samrobb · · Score: 1

      On the science fiction front, I'll second Brown. He also has the advantage of having written several outstanding short stories. Speaking of short stories... I'd recommend including "A Martian Odessey" by Stanley G. Weinbaum, as well as "Mimsy Were the Borogoves" and "The Twonky" by Henry Kuttner.

      For mid-length reads, "The Big Front Yard" and... well, pretty much anything else by Clifford D. Simak.

      Veer off into some Niven; his Gil Hamilton short stories, ("Death by Ecstasy" or "The Patchwork Girl"), and explore some of his Draco Tavern vignettes. Those last are probably short enough for in-class readings, even.

      --
      "Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgement." Job 32:9
    3. Re:Another Name to Consider by rleibman · · Score: 1

      I love "the last man on earth" one of my favorite short stories, on the par with Asimov's "the last question". I've looked for more Fredric Brown but other than a story here or there, and the wonderfully funny "Martians go Home" they're hard to find.

    4. Re:Another Name to Consider by knarfling · · Score: 1

      A friend gave me a book many years ago called "The Best of Fredric Brown" that was published in 1977. That was how I was introduced to his writing. A few of his stories can be found on Project Gutenber. I understand that another book was published in 2001 called "From these ashes: the complete short SF of Fredric Brown" that is supposed to contain over 100 of his stories.

      --
      Great civilizations have lived and died on false theories. Don't mess up mine with a few facts.
    5. Re:Another Name to Consider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Second Variety" then, by Dick. To start off the course with a bang :-)

  89. one of the few times I'm tossing in my thoughts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With the 3000 others here.

    Some early things like H.G. Wells. A bit of 1930s space opera. Heinlein, possibly starship troopers but the cat who walked trough walls is also an option. A bit of fantasy, Tolkien is tempting but not necessarily the best option, Vance has some nice short stories.

    I'd do some early cyberpunk as well, short stories or possibly neuromancer or even Swanwick's vacuum flowers.

    Also try to find some russian scifi, they had some good authors in the 1970s.
    Current work.. hmm... what comes to mind is "the years of rice and salt" but that's probably too difficult. Kiln people perhaps?

  90. Focus on Contempory Sci-Fi by wdavies · · Score: 1

    Eschew the old masters. Its a seperate subject. Eschew most fantasy (sorry, I love Orcs as much as the next guy, but its a lighter subject).

    Here's a modern list of classic authors:

    Iain M. Banks: Use of Weapons, Consider Phelpas, Feerdsum Enjun (super power societies,nano, planetary/space)
    Neal Stephenson: Anathem (weird society)
    William Gibson: Neuromancer (cyber, near future earth)
    Alistair Reynolds: The Prefect (nano tech society)
    Ken MacLeod: The Star Faction (politics)
    C j Cherryh: Cyteen (bio engineering, lighter imo, a little older than I'd like to put in here, but its better than say the Foreigner series)
    Mary Gentle: Ash (alternate histories, Ash and the sequel is a work of art).

    1. Re:Focus on Contempory Sci-Fi by Emerssso · · Score: 1

      Much as I agree with your argument for contemporary work, I really do have to point out that there is more going on in fantasy than "Orcs, Elves, and stuff".

      First, fantasy is a much larger genre then the epic, Tolkien-esque work that is most pushed by publishers. First, mythic fiction, which while not always fantasy in a sense that most people identify with, often has most if not all of the characteristics of fantasy, and is much harder than a great majority of the the current popular SF (I mean, really guys. How many Star Wars books does the world need?)

      We also have lovely options for class readings in urban/contemporary/indigenous fantasy. This might even be better, in my opinion, as there are quite a lot of short stories that have a fair bit of analytical meat.

      The Endicott Studio used to have some excellent reading lists for both of these subgenres.

      Maybe the greater proportion of Slashdotters don't see the need for looking at this kind of fiction. However, they provide many useful insights into how to critically analyze fiction, as their references and tropes tend to be more relevant to high schoolers than monks who live to do math.

    2. Re:Focus on Contempory Sci-Fi by PeterBrett · · Score: 1

      Neal Stephenson: Anathem (weird society)

      Others have suggested Anathem, but you've illustrated quite well why it would be unsuitable. Basically, I feel that high school students won't have a mature enough understanding of philosophy and mathematics to understand what the book's actually about. I'm currently reading it for the third time, and but it's been clear to me from the start that the "weird society" is simply a vehicle for a commentary on long-term thinking and the philosophy of science.

      I completely agree that Anathem is one of the most important science fiction works of the 21st century so far, but to say that it's worthy of study because it has a "weird society" is completely missing the point.

      Neal Stephenson: Anathem (long-term thinking, philosophy of science)

      Fixed that for you.

  91. Some books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know that if when I was in HS this would have been a great course to have.

    Asimov
    Crichton
    Orson Scott-Card

    Books that come to mind:
    Next
    Prey
    Andromeda Strain
    Enders Game and series
    Watchmen (Graphic Novel)
    Original Superman Comics

  92. The Positronic Man by Asimov by krystar · · Score: 1

    Good scifi is not just about the laser beemz and the death rayz. It is and always has been about the PEOPLE. given that you have all this new technology, how does it impact humanity as a society and the individual's morality. the point of science fiction is to project oursevles beyond the limitations of our current everydayness and examine where we stand on a much deeper level. i wish i had understood this much when i took my scifi lit class in high school. hehe

  93. The ABC's by stuffduff · · Score: 1

    Start with some of the classics: Asimov (I Robot), Bradbury (The Illustrated Man, Martian Chronicles), Clarke (A Fall of Moondust) These stories are both good examples of sci-fi but also good examples of storytelling. In I Robot the Three Laws are a wonderful premise for stories that have spawned a wide following. In A Fall of Moondust a simple physical fact and its implications for human survival become captivating suspense. The early works of Heinline like The Past Through Tomorrow what technology does to our humanity. I'd suggest that you begin with shorter works and work towards one longer work, however Dune, or Stranger in a Strange Land are not good first semester works, nor would hard scifi like Forward. Nourse's The Universe Between, L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time are great for younger kids but probably too simplistic for High School. Explore where technology puts us into unusual situations and how those situations impact our humanity. Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electronic Sheep - where do we draw the line of what is and isn't human?. Maybe throw a changeup with a book that really explores what it means to be alien like Brin's Uplift series (Startide Rising) or Cherryh's Chanur series (Chanur's Venture). Or some Gibson. Let the stories awaken their minds to new possibilities, after all that's what its all about.

    --
    "Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
  94. Short Stories by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

    I support your idea of using short stories. SF is a genre that has an abundance of very good short fiction. For example, The Nine Billion Names of Gos by Arthur C. Clarke is a classic and on 2,586 words. You can probably find it in a relatively cheap paperback edition combined with several other really good pieces by Clarke or others.

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
  95. Zahn/Flint by qcontinuum · · Score: 1

    Timothy Zahn has some fascinating short series: his novel/series 'Cobra' is an interesting twist on a major cold war issue (super-soldiers as a stand-in for nuclear proliferation), while his Conqueror's Trilogy presents a fascinating look at cultural clashes in the guise of a first contact story. Also, Eric Flint's 163x series is a fascinating exploration of the technological, societal, and ideological changes which would come about were a modern-era town to be dropped into the middle seventeenth century Germany. Plus, at least a couple of books from that series can be read for free online/downloaded from the Baen library (http://baen.com/library).

  96. Re:More forced reading? Ugh. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1
    From TFS:

    Through this course, students will utilize analytical skills and reading strategies to evaluate our current situation and project into the literature of different worlds while sharing and learning of an author's insight.

    The course is a literary analysis course, not a writing course, and that's why the reading is "mandatory". Your second paragraph is correct, though, and answers the question you posed in your first: "What do we actually gain by forcing people to read something?" Answer: Writers learn to write by reading.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  97. Escape Pod podcast. by wdavies · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The best free sci-fi on podcast I've come across is from Escape Pod.

    Currently at about 200 short stories narrated often by the original authors, includes original and award winning works. Kudos to the guy who does it. I've stopped listening now I dont drive 2 hours a day to work and back.

    http://escapepod.org/

    Each is between 30 mins and an hour or so, reading, mostly non-dramaticized.

  98. String theory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    String theory.... and other theories that come from the scientists under 'shrooms influence?

  99. Multiple Sub Genre and traditions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With this it might be a good idea to do a brief survey of some of the subgenre's that exist in the field, although in doing this it would probably be better to use some short stories. One thing to consider is talking to people in the field. Paul Grimstad, http://www.yale.edu/english/profiles/grimstad.html , a Professor in the Yale English department is teaching a class on Science and Fiction, and contacting him should provide some useful advice, especially with less common stories.

    Picking things out of the Hugo winners and runners up is also a good plan since the 1950s. As far as war and humanity goes, the Forever War by Joe Haldeman should be good. For my part on what it means to be human I like a variety of stuff by C.J. Cherryh.

  100. Spinrad by idsfa · · Score: 1

    In the current climate, Bug Jack Barron sadly still seems to fit.

  101. Some good books by sabs · · Score: 1

    Early Heinlein
    Starship Troopers, Starman Jones, Podkyn of Mars. Avoid Stranger in a Strangeland, Friday, etc.

    Asimov
    I Robot, some of the other short stories. Only do the Foundation Trilogy in an Honors version.
    Tolkien - a no brainer really.
    Chronicles of Narnia - focus on how it compares to Tolkien, how the author's christianity molds the themes in the story.

    William H Gibson
    Neuromancer
    "Analog" Is a great periodical to get short stories from.

    Given time:
    Tad Williams

    Focusing on Women depictions in SciFi -
    Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time for a negative.
    Elizabeth Moon: Vatta Wars or Familias Series for a positive.

    Even though I really hate both of them::
    Anne McAffrey and the Dragon Riders of Pern series are classics.
    Mercedes Lackey

    1984 and Farenheit 451 are already part of most regular english teachings.

    1. Re:Some good books by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Stay away from friday only if you're a prude, or cant think about life outside of current social normality. That one explores human sexuality and is actually a very good read if you have a somewhat open mind.

      honestly, his polyamory ideas in that one have more basis in reality of the human species than the church sanctified western world of today.

      It will go right over the heads of high-schoolers, but college level it's a fantastic book. But then I am the type that suggested the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn to friends in college. That usually told me which ones were open minded thinkers and the ones that were easily freaked out. I have friends from college that still believe that Clockwork Orange is pornagraphic.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Some good books by sabs · · Score: 1

      They're talking about a HS class of unknown age.. but anywhere between 14 and 18.
      Think about your average PTA Parent.

      Do you want the class to succeed, or to get banned, and the teacher to get fired.

  102. Neuromancer by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

    What about some of the work of William Gibson such as Neuromancer. I haven't read any of his stuffy myself, yet, but it is certainly on my list. As I understand it, Gibson pioneered some of the more common concepts of what an 'information age' would entail as well as having some interesting commentary on the 'cyberspace counter culture' that such an age could/would develop. Also, I think some of his stuff addressed the rise of entertainment forms like reality T.V. Considering that these are pretty popular and common concepts these days, adding one of his novels might have some poignant significance for some of the students.

    Also, as mentioned by others above, I think 2984, Fahrenheit 451, and Brave New World all should be studied thoroughly if they are not taught in common Lit classes at your school. I know we were never required to read 1984 in my school and, though I sought that book out myself, many students I graduated with still don't understand what I mean when I discuss some recent government policies with them and then make a reference to 1984. Naivete of the masses is a powerful tool for those in power and as a teacher you can take an active role in combating that naivete.

  103. George R. R. Martin by bluprint · · Score: 1

    I would replace Jordan with Martin (maybe). The quality of work is so much better IMO. I think he is really cutting edge, not the typical "farm boy saves the world", his writing seems to incorporate more realistic depictions of human relationships and uncertainty of life. Characters are deeper, some who you might detest at one point you later sympathize with and "almost" consider to be good, deep down. The material of Martin's books is pretty mature. Incest, rape (and rape of what we would consider children), some other pretty violent stuff...so from that aspect it may not be appropriate for high school...

    --
    A modern day witchhunt.
    1. Re:George R. R. Martin by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      The material of Martin's books is pretty mature. Incest, rape (and rape of what we would consider children), some other pretty violent stuff...so from that aspect it may not be appropriate for high school...

      Depending on how detailed they are in the books. If they mentioned they happened; no problem. If they describe them as they happened; problem. In High School you learn Greek Myths that cover those same topics, but are not in graphic detail.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
  104. My list of 12 by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
    You need at least one book from each of the following authors/sets:

    1. Some of the ancient stuff that people call classics and pretend are not Fantasy: Gilgamesh/Beowulf/Dante's Divine Comedy/Iliad/1001 Arabian Nights

    2. Jules Verne

    3. HG Wells

    4. Asimov

    5. Tolkien

    6. Heinlein

    7. Philip K Dick

    8. CS Lewis

    9. Niven

    10. Theodore Sturgeon

    11. George Orwell / Aldous Huxley

    12. Arthur C Clarke That is enough. Quite a lot to read. If you haven't read SOMETHING by each of these authors/sets, then you don't really everything that Sci-Fi/Fantasy can be.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:My list of 12 by pacinpm · · Score: 1

      You forgot about:
      1. Stanislaw Lem
      2. Arkadij and Borys Strugaccy
      3. Kiryl Bulyczow

      PS. Their names are in Polish but you should have no problem googling them in Eglish.
      PPS. Slashdot could really use Unicode.

  105. 2984 by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

    I think 2984, Fahrenheit 451...

    Epic preview fail....that was supposed to be 1984....

  106. You should already know. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you cannot answer this question for yourself, you are in no way qualified to help develop this course. Bow out.

    A dozen or so books, tops, should supply more than enough material for a full-year, high school level course. If you can't come up with 10-20 suitable titles, you don't know enough about sci-fi as literature, adolescents or both.

  107. Highlights from my HS SciFi class by RayMarron · · Score: 1

    ...were "Fahrenheit 451" and "Flowers for Algernon". I think those fall under your social issues category.

    --
    ON DELETE CASCADE
    1. Re:Highlights from my HS SciFi class by penguinchris · · Score: 1

      I read those in regular English classes in middle school (grade 7 or 8 as I recall) - they are science fiction, certainly, but are so well known that at least some students will have read them already. Considering this is a science fiction specific course, some more interesting choices should be in order.

      I don't mean to imply that Fahrenheit 451 and Flowers for Algernon aren't good works or that they're uninteresting, but in the context of a high school science-fiction-specific class, seeing selections like this on the syllabus (even if I hadn't already read them) would have made me, as a student, groan to myself. That's partially just me, of course - I'm not afraid to admit that I have an aversion to things that are really popular ;)

      However, beyond that, these kinds of books have been beaten to death in schools and in popular culture. They've lost some of their impact. I think students should still read them, but I wouldn't choose them as required reading for a class when there are so many other directions you could go.

  108. So Many Suggestions by Quothz · · Score: 1
    There's too many good suggestions in this thread; it's hard to add to. I'd consider including Mark Twain's Connecticut Yankee. Pratchett, who writes brilliant social satire in a fantasy setting, is worth consideration, as well. The Niven and Pournelle collaborations are good hard sci-fi, usually with political themes. Dick is good for incredible books and, in high school, horrible high jokes about his name. And that's just scratching the surface. There's just so much out there.

    Regardless of what you go with, however, were I you I would fix the damn grammar in the course description. "From the early formation of the genre, the genres have been about" indeed. Don't capitalize the names of genres; there's no need to capitalize "junior" or "senior", either, nor do you need a slash between them when the English language provides a perfectly good conjunction. Possible areas of interest include others? Really?

  109. A starter list by tbannist · · Score: 1

    What books are used in the course will be very dependent on the theme you want to explore. Dealing with both Science Fiction and Fantasy in a high school course leaves very little time to examine many books (especially if you have a semester system). Additionally, you'll want to co-ordinate with the rest of the English department to avoid overlap. Some good places to start:

    Classic Science Fiction:
    War of the Worlds by H. G. Wells (Chemical weapons, spaceflight, lasers, and planes appear in this book long before we learned how to actually make them work)
    Frankenstein by Mary Shelley (Classic but possibly overused)
    Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
    Foundation by Isaac Asimov
    Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell
    Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
    Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke

    Modern Science Fiction:
    Fallen Dragon by Peter F. Hamilton
    Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds
    Hyperion by Dan Simmons
    Dune by Frank Herbert
    Cyteen by C.J. Cherryh

    Classic Fantasy:
    The Hobbit by J. R. R. Tolkien (because you don't have time for the Lord of the Rings Trilogy)
    The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle
    The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C. S. Lewis
    A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula Le Guin

    Modern Fantasy:
    Harry Potter and the Philospher's Stone by J. K. Rowling (I actually don't recommend this, most of the students will likely have read it)
    Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gamon
    Wizard's First Rule by Terry Goodkind (Be careful, Goodkind's a bit of a crazy libertarian but this tends to come a lot more in the later books)
    The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan
    A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin
    Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay
    The Dragonbone Chair by Tad Williams
    Assassin's Apprentice by Robin Hobb

    --
    Fanatically anti-fanatical
  110. Microcosmic Tales = Course Textbook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the point is literary analysis and discussion, this book is perfect. It has 100 short stories that will provoke thought and not spend a lot of time on dialog. Now, I like long reads as much as the next person, but in a class, I would imagine you have a bit more compressed schedule, you want rapid fire ideas more than long story arcs.

    I also agree early Heinlein is great for High School, especially "The moon is a harsh mistress", and "Have spacesuit will travel", an "Rocketship Galileo". If you want a political discussion, one of the greatest stories of all time "Starship troopers" (which will blow away the kids who have only seen the movie - screw you Paul Verhoven).

  111. Don't forget H. Beam Piper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You might also want to take a look at the works of h. Beam Piper. For social commentary, Uller Uprising, Graveyard of Dreams come to mind. As a side benefit, both of these books, and many others, are available free via the Gutenberg Project website.

  112. Diversity by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 1
    SF is an incredibly diverse genre. You could cover the whole course with short stories, or have students each read and discuss one novel. I agree with "Ender's Game" - the original novella is not even that long. And you need some of the "idea" SF short stories by Asimov, Heinlein, Pohl, Campbell, Niven. Cordwainer Smith is a must - "The game of rat and dragon", "Scanners live in vain", "Think Blue, Count Two". Drake's "Hammer's Slammers" is quite good for modern military SF. I also like Verne ("From the Earth to the Moon" is a favorite), but the English translations are awful.

    On the fantasy side, a lot that is written is unoriginal fluff. Howard's original Conan stories are good, honest, and colourful. Jack Vance's "When the Magic goes away". Certainly Leiber with Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. If they can resist "Lean Times in Lankhmar", give it up. Asprin's "Myth" books are nice and not as obvious as Pratchett (whom I never got). If you want Tolkien, "The Hobbit" is neither too long nor too boring.

    --

    Stephan

  113. Keeping their attention with short stories by MikeOnline · · Score: 1

    Stories that are a genuine joy to read will go over easier than dryer "significant" works. I suggest emphasizing short stories to keep students attention, then offer a suggested reading list of novels or other works, for those who want to dive in on their own time. Some suggested short stories: The Widget, the Wadget and Boff, by Theodore Sturgeon. Solitude, by Ursula K. Le Guin. Faith of our Fathers, by Philip K. Dick. Suggested reading list: Snow Crash, by Neal Stephenson. The Earthsea 'Trilogy' (5 novels and one short story collection), by U.K. Le Guin. The Dispossessed, by U.K. Le Guin. The Man in the High Castle, by P.K. Dick. The Sandman (graphic series), by Neal Gaiman. Childhood's End, by A.C. Clarke

  114. Wolfe by straponego · · Score: 1

    Start with the Book of the New Sun. Like most classics, it rewards multiple readings. Plenty of philosophy thrown in as a bonus, and it's a good introduction to the unreliable narrator.

    If that's too difficult, I'd recommend Steven Brust's Vlad books. They're a good way to break stereotypes of SF/fantasy. The first few are told in almost a film noir, hard-boiled style. That's become a genre unto itself these days, but he was among the first (Zelazny's Amber books did it as well). They read fast, but they're surprisingly thoughtful.

    Iain M Banks' Culture books are great, particularly Use of Weapons and Player of Games. Blindsight, by Peter Watts, is probably the best SF book I've read since Cryptonomicon. But Watts may be a little depressing for high school. I'm not sure today's tender young treasures, raised on foam playgrounds, not allowed to walk two blocks to school, could stand up to him... you'd probably end up getting sued.

    Oh, and it's hard to go wrong with Stross (except for the Family Trade books, I can't get into them).

  115. SciFi/Humanitas program at Belmont High School by codeonezero · · Score: 1
    Many a year ago, during my 10th grade year at one of the big urban high schools in Los Angeles, I was part of a program called Humanitas.

    We had a Creative Writing program + regular English class with one teacher, tied in with a Biology class. In addition to the regular English class curriculum, we also delved into a few Sci Fi books. We read Michael Crichton's Jurassic Park. We went beyond simply reading it, the English teacher Charles DiPuccio teamed up with our Biology teacher and reading through the book and working on it, coincided with us studying about genetics. It really piqued my interest and that of others in the class. It was such an immersive experience, we learned something about science, genetics & DNA sequencing. We even wrote letters "home" as survivors talking about what our experiences on the island may have been like. We of course also watched the movie.

    It gave me a very different perspective on writing, science, and movie watching :)

    It may be something to consider. I added as much info as I could in case perhaps you try to get ahold of the teacher involved :)

    --

    ....
    int main (void) { ... }

  116. Cryptonomicon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cryptonomicon, not necessarily sci-fi/fantasy, but excellent in a historical (with fictionalized accounts) and computer science. Not a lot of sex other than a short homosexual scene.

  117. Gah...great ideas...not such great writers by beegeegee · · Score: 1

    Having been a big SF fan years ago and having read most the golden age books, I'd have to disagree with most of the recommendations here. Heinlein and Asimov were thought provoking but not very good writers. The language of Dune is almost hilariously stilted and most of the others just good nerd reads but don't break out into good literature. As far as authors go, I could only recommend Dick as worth study. The three or four books I thought well enough to pass on to my children are:

    A Canticle For Leibowitz - Walter Miller Neuromancer - William Gibson Snow Crash - Neal Stephanson The Martian Chronicles - Bradbury Frankenstein - Mary Shelley

    I love a lot of the others people have mentioned but I recognize my own ability to suspend any sort of requirement for character development and well-written prose for the quick fix of a good "what if".

    1. Re:Gah...great ideas...not such great writers by Hobophile · · Score: 1

      I agree. I would've loved a class like this in high school but I was reading most of the suggested SF authors already. Students at that age lack the requisite judgment and maturity to distinguish important literary works from self-aggrandizing escapist fiction. Ideally that's where the teacher would come in, but the submitter's biases are rather transparent. He seems more interested in justifying the inclusion of fan favorites than in imparting useful analytical skills to the "flunkies."

      Any list of fantasy authors for a literature course that does not include Borges is immediately suspect. His stories are short, and his ideas are profound and influential. Tolkien is equally significant, but more properly considered within the tradition of classics and folklore. Studying him in a literary context is fruitless and arguably even harmful.

      A more productive avenue would be to look to favorite authors and see who they cite as significant influences, then assemble a list of stories by those authors. Or one could simply pick award-winning stories from the last few decades that have held up well in popular and critical esteem, e.g. "Flowers for Algernon." An interesting approach would be to group stories not by author but by place of first publication, to identify commercial and editorial influences on the fiction.

      Or he could simply plug the class as a chance to read "Ender's Game" for school credit, and not bother arguing the academic merits of the curriculum, which will be slight. There's a reason that high school English classes do not survey works by Dan Brown, John Grisham, or JK Rowling. It's the same reason that the list as proposed is ill-conceived and fundamentally misguided.

  118. Not a "regular" class by your description... by Sandbags · · Score: 1

    First of all, your state likely already has a printed list of accepted works of Sci-fi and Fantasy based on 11-12th grade reading levels. YOU SHOULD STICK TO THIS! The material they read is to be used on state standardized or national tests, and potentially college acceptance essays, and the use on non-standard or non-approved material will mean likely the people administering and grading the essay portions of high school state/national exams will not be prepared for that material should your student leverage the reading in an answer, meaning that any grading could potentially be skewed.

    Next, Tolkein is generally considdered an advanced college level read, with possibly the hobbit as the 1 exception. An AP high school class may tacle it on occasion, but not a general class.

    Jordan? You mentioned "short" works... i think you're confused :)

    I'd reccomend taking a look at some of the short stories presented in Volume 1 and 2 of "Legends" for any of the 2nd and 3rd generation fantasy, though you'll need to come up with classroom exceptable versions of them as you can't reccomend parents to buy the book as a whole, and the school won't provide it (several of the stories in there are definetly NOT acceptable high school material). Most of the authors listed in Legends do have numerous short (400 page and less) novels available, but most o fthem are parts of series.

    For older fantasy, Verne's not bad, and anything from the Narnia series is a short simple read on high school or at least late middle school levels (I'd suggest one that wasn't yet a movie). For Sci-Fi, Asimoff is your core resource. For Modern Sci-fi, Neil Stephenson's Diamond Age (I'd stay away from Snow Crash due to the content).

    I'd probably also not assign entire books. I'd assign sections or select chapters... Asking kids to read more than 100-150 pages a week is going to be a tall order (our local district bans assignments exceeding 2 hours per night more than 2 nights poer week to prevent kids from being overwhelmed, and to allow them time for sports and other after school programs, it;s hard to read more than 100 pages in 4 hours). They can easily get a solid taste of an author's styles, and how the genre changed over time, by reading a small subset, say 50-75 pages, of a book. Completing the entire story is unnecessary. Short novels under 70 pages are common to a lot of authors, especially George Martin and Asimoff. most of the content from "legends" are nice as they're short stories that hold on their own, but they're bridges into major series, and might hook a lot of the kids to read a lot more from most of those authors.

    DEFINETLY, for ANYTHING you plan to include in a class, ensure your local and/or district administrators have expliocity read every page of everything you propose for your kids to read. Do NOT let them have any opportunity to hear something like this from them: "ScuttleMonkey suggested this book for his class to us, so we assumed it was clean reading and followed school policies on his word, we're sorry you're child is traumatized by the attack upon god, or the gratuitous scene, or the (fill in horrible thing parent could easily use in a lawsuit against school for smahing beliefs of innocense here) included in this novel, we were not aware of this content and we will suspend/fire him immediately."

    Also, even an AP exploration of the evolution of a genre over time is a big thing to take on. I'd not try doing 2 at once, but make 1 class for sci-fi and another class for Fantasy.

    Sci-fi sort of starts with Nueromancer, Blade Runner, and Metropolis. From there you;re looking at Asimoff, then niven Pournelle, then the new guys neil Stephenson and Tad willaims. Fantasy naturally was born pre-tolkein and that should be discussed, though he reinvented it and started the real movement. Since I reccomend against having them outright read tolkein, i'd simply study him and his works as a whole and the idea of "tolkeinesque" fantasy and have them read simpler exam

    --
    There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    1. Re:Not a "regular" class by your description... by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 1
      I'd probably also not assign entire books. I'd assign sections or select chapters...

      I disagree with this. It's very hard to extract an interesting chapter from a work of SF, because often there is much world-building and set up involved that the climactic chapters cannot be understood without a lot of the set-up. SF has so many short forms (short story, novellas, and even novels, especially juveniles) that there is no reason for extracting individual chapters.

      If you want this class to be a runaway success and if you have a solid second job, give the John Norman's Gor ;-)

      --

      Stephan

    2. Re:Not a "regular" class by your description... by Sandbags · · Score: 1

      The class is about the study of the evoluytion of the genre and style in writing, not about the content itself.

      You don't need them to read 600 pages to find out that the world takes shape over a longer period of pages in modern fantasy. For most books, a subsection covering a historical flashback of 50-100 pages would suffice.

      I did encourage the poster to look into short novels, but unfortunately, that would completely ignore epic fantasy, which is a major component of the entire fantasy movement, and thus can not be ignored in an exploration of the history of the style. This is a compromise move to allow them to read the style of writing without having to read the entire piece. It is not a suggesttion they only read such pieces.

      --
      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    3. Re:Not a "regular" class by your description... by Dragoness+Eclectic · · Score: 1

      If you want this class to be a runaway success and if you have a solid second job, give the John Norman's Gor

      It's supposed to be a class in analyzing Sci-fi and fantasy, not in analyzing really bad soft-core BDSM porn... ;-)

      --
      ---dragoness
    4. Re:Not a "regular" class by your description... by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 1

      If you want this class to be a runaway success and if you have a solid second job, give the John Norman's Gor

      It's supposed to be a class in analyzing Sci-fi and fantasy, not in analyzing really bad soft-core BDSM porn... ;-)

      Well, the German editions have most of the sex edited out. Early books are 1/3rd the original length, later ones 1/4th. What remains is fairly decent (no pun intended ;-) fantasy. "Slave girl of Gor" is not really comprehendible anymore, though...

      --

      Stephan

    5. Re:Not a "regular" class by your description... by Dragoness+Eclectic · · Score: 1

      Did they also edit out the tedious rants on how BDSM sex-slavery was liberating for men & women?

      --
      ---dragoness
  119. Some books and authors? by Zeelan · · Score: 1

    Sounds like what you need is to bust up the reading material into some kind of sets. Then offer some books of the books that defined the genre.
    So here are like three suggestions at least for scifi that I can name off the top of my head. (I have read all these works. And there are probable so many more that I don't name.)

    Cyberpunk = The Shockwave Rider by John Brunner, (1975 book, introduced the concept of a computer worm.) Neuromancer by William Gibson. (1984, defines many concepts that are used on the internet today.) Or Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson (1999, Just a damn good read, will let others define this one.)

    Modern SciFi (Defined as post WWII) = Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein (1961, gives us the wonderful word... grok.) Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card. (1985, a very definitive work.) The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin (1969, can't leave out a work by a very well known female writer.)

    Classic Scifi = These ones everyone knows. 20 Thousands Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne (1870, Fun book... bonus points if you can find what parts are copies of that one nature book.) War of the Worlds by H. G. Wells (1898, Alian invastion! 19th century style) The Call of Cthulhu by H. P. Lovecraft. (1928, short story that gives us Cthulhu.)

    Best I can do at the time. Feel free to add more.

  120. For ghu's sake something other than ... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    ... _The Machine Stops_ or anything by Bradbury.

    SF and mainstream fiction have distinct central messages.

    Mainstream fiction is art for the ruled classes. It says "It may be bad but anything you do to try to fix it will will make it worse. Listen to the authorities and those with the right certifications - no matter how badly they're performing they're the only ones who know how to handle this stuff. Be a nice sheep. Do what your leaders tell you. Shearing you in the spring makes the hot summer more comfortable and they'll keep you healthy until you're ready for the table." Literature teachers generally deride any literature that doesn't carry this message as "escapist" (as if there's something horribly wrong with reading a mood-uplifting story rather than being depressed ALL the time and such stories are thus automatically low quality).

    SF's is the art of engineers - the people who MUST strive for excellence and improvement to make the infrastructure run. Its central message is "Applying thought and effort to improve things works and can bring enormous benefits. Letting things slide makes them worse. YOU are responsible for your life and the quality of life of those around you." Even SF dystopias are generally of the form: "If you let THIS break it can get SO bad that it's no longer possible to fix it."

    But there are a few authors and a few stories that use the SF form but carry mainstream fiction's central message. And my experience in the past has been that those teachers who attempt to "bring Science Fiction into the classroom" gravitate to these authors and stories with their familiar components, hold them up as some of the best work in the field, and thus miss the entire POINT of SF.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  121. Cordwainer Smith by jacksdl · · Score: 1

    For variety, and to show an author that understands language as well as technology, have them try Cordwainer Smith. "Norstralia" if they have the time for a novel, "Dead Lady of Clown Town" or "A Planet Named Shayol" for short stories.

    My instructor in a class called "Literature of Fantasy and Imagination" in junior college introduced me to this author. I seldom re-read a book just for pleasure -- Smith's are the exception.

    1. Re:Cordwainer Smith by oaksong · · Score: 1

      I was trying like mad to remember the name of this Australian writer as I was ending my post. I wish he'd written more. One of my all time favorites. As good a way with words as Tolkien.

  122. I'm here to criticize by Stargoat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm here to criticize. The purpose of Fantasy, and to a lesser extent Science Fiction, is not primarily escapism. Rather, it is to create an understanding of the human condition by using speculation or other plot devices. The first thing that comes to mind are those black white / white black dudes on Star Trek - which you should probably show your class as an example of what science fiction is actually about. I think you also need to define for your class what is speculative fiction, what is hard science fiction, and what is fantasy with spaceships and fantasy with unicorns.

    --
    Hoist Number One and Number Six.
    1. Re:I'm here to criticize by spitzig · · Score: 1

      I think it was Frank Herbert who said "if you can imagine that a sentient ball of energy is a person, it's not very difficult to imagine that a black guy is."(from memory, so paraphrased)

  123. ugh by buddyglass · · Score: 1

    Robert Jordan in a high school literature class? Makes me want to home school. And, yes, I've read most of the WoT books.

  124. Georgia Tech by kjs3 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Georgia Tech has been offering a ridiculously popular Science Fiction literature class since the 70s. You might use it's curriculum as a guide. http://lcc.gatech.edu/~brobertson3/texts/sf.pdf

    1. Re:Georgia Tech by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

      I was looking for that! All I found was that Bud Foote died. :-(

    2. Re:Georgia Tech by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      Georgia Tech has been offering a ridiculously popular Science Fiction literature class since the 70s. You might use it's curriculum as a guide. http://lcc.gatech.edu/~brobertson3/texts/sf.pdf

      Do you get bonus points for bringing the original GitS manga and showing how Oshii, turned the character into a 1 dimensions brooding machine?

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    3. Re:Georgia Tech by utopia27 · · Score: 1

      :( very sad to hear.

    4. Re:Georgia Tech by kjs3 · · Score: 1

      No.

  125. What they don't need is another damn Vampire story by scorp1us · · Score: 1

    Credit to the latest episode to Califonication.

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
  126. What I read... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Hobbit - great foundation for young minds budding with imaginaition.

  127. Limit your selections by jayme0227 · · Score: 1

    Ok, so I'm not your typical fantasy reader. I have read some sci fi/fantasy before but have definitely not delved to the depths of many of my friends. If you are going to teach about fantasy, though, I have to say that you must limit your selections. I would say avoid series, unless you are going to sample specific books from them. Also, make sure to check other English Lit classes and avoid books that they already cover. Nobody wants to analyze 1984 in different manners for two different classes.

    You would probably want to briefly sample mythology, Greek and Norse especially, because most fantasy has many roots in these mythologies. I would definitely hit The Hobbit, as the Tolkien universe was (ab)used to a very large degree in future books, and it can be read separately from the LotR series. Also, Frankenstein or one of Vern's works would be great since these are generally considered to be the origins of SciFi. Again, if other classes teach Frankenstein, you would probably want to leave it out.

    After these basic works, you would probably want to decide whether you want to focus on literature that was popular, had a large impact on society, or had insightful social commentary. I would try to focus on just one of those trees, but try to include literature that crosses the boundaries between them.

    But remember, make sure not to pick out too many pieces, these are high school students and you don't want to completely stifle their interest in the genre(s). Limit your selections and make sure you have a cohesive and clear plan to get them through the semester.

    --
    But then I realized the cable was blue, so I only gave it one star. I hate blue.
  128. Started my Sfi-Fantasy course in Junior High by oaksong · · Score: 1

    It began with the Lucky Starr series, juveniles written by Isaac Assimov. At 12 I read Heinlien's "Stranger In a Strange Land" (hot off the book club press) and Huxley's "Brave New World". During High School ('62-'66) I picked up Analog and got a subscription. How do you try to package all that in a class? For instance, what do you consider the main themes of Science Fiction? Is the Lensmen series by EE Doc Smith a Space Opera? How about Dune? Is Dune about the technology or the characters. Is it about Christianity vs. the Muslim religions? In my junior year of high school I essentially took January and February off to read the LOTR trilogy. Didn't get much homework done. I think I was 14 when I read Assimov's Foundation. Good luck shaping this course and I hope you reply to the thread with your reading list. hmmm. Philip K Dick, Andre Norton, Al Bester, Zelazny, Poul Anderson, etc. etc.

  129. Zany Warble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "the Zany Time Travels of Warble McGorkle" should top the list.

  130. Get a good Anthology of shorter stories. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Covers a lot of different styles, etc.

    Also, SciFi works great in short story form. Distills the stories down to their core components, without getting lost in larger storylines and stuff.

    For example:
    http://www.amazon.com/Science-Fiction-Hall-Fame-Greatest/dp/0765305364

  131. Re:i'm not trying to be a troll by RazzleDazzle · · Score: 1

    I totally laughed out loud at your reply, swanzilla. Nothing like smashing a false dichotomy to spruce up the day.

    --
    ZERO ZERO ONE ZERO ONE ZERO ONE ONE! Just brushing up for my next big invention: Ethernet over Voice (EoV)
  132. A Wrinkle In Time, bitches. by mujadaddy · · Score: 1

    Oh, and I, Robot.

    --
    Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
    "Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
  133. Agree: short stories by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

    I want to jump in to agree here: for a class, you want to do short stories. That's not as bad a hit as you might think; a lot of the real classic SF has been in short form-- sure, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress is classic, but Heinlein also was one of the greatest short-story writers of SF, as well.

    Consider the The SFWA Grand Masters volumes, as a start, but you definitely want to do some modern stuff too, by which I mean things written in the last 20 years or so-- in fact, I'd suggest assigning as a textbook the most recent edition of the Gardner Dozois Year's Best.

    You might do a few short novels, but make sure that they realy are short-- The Time Machine, sure (it's actually a novella), for example, or maybe The Stars my Destination (that's "Tyger Tyger," for you Brits.)

    Do NOT assign Dune, or The Mote in God's Eye, or anything even approaching those in length, unless you want to make your students hate science fiction. These are books you want your students to read on their own, when they want to, for fun; not cram in in a day of skimming for an exam. These are way huge for a book to force them to read.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  134. Suggestions for books to read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would say make them read either Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (which is a phenomenal book), or if you want to be the cool teacher make the read the first Halo book Fall of Reach. It was actually a pretty good book, but it drew a lot of inspiration from Enders Game

  135. Asimov by Aram+Fingal · · Score: 1

    Like other people mentioned, I would like to see some Asimov in a course like this but I would actually put "The End of Eternity" at the top of the list. No other book explores the paradoxes of time travel as well as this one and time travel is an important branch of SF. Having said that, I Robot or one of the other Robot books would also be a good choice. It was, in fact, Isaac Asimov who first coined the term "robotics."

  136. Thoughts by PPalmgren · · Score: 1

    I know you asked for recommendations, but I figured bring these up because any oversight on these will make the class boring regardless of the quality of lit you choose.

    Popular titles will possibly have been read by a portion of the class. This could create a lot of boredom. If you could take a good compiled list and survey potential students on whether they've read them or not, that would be very beneficial. You could even survey on the first day of class if you build a few good lesson plan templates beforehand. That would definitely make them feel more engaged.

    Doing a book that was turned into a movie or two might be good. In some of my classes we watched the movie after reading the book, and it was a nice break in routine and helped outline differences in media. Sphere comes to mind.

    In my opinion, lit classes can be either incredibly engaging or incrediby boring. If you follow a formula for each work its going to be boring. As an elective, its something students choose because they want to. If its treated like a core subject, it may turn that interest off.

  137. First to post by Shabazz+Rabbinowitz · · Score: 1

    ...Eric Frank Russell.

    Why? Why not. I reread all of his books over and over.

    Seriously, though, what does Terra Uber Alles mean, anyway?

  138. Because reality is stranger than fiction... by ntimid8 · · Score: 1

    Farnham's Freehold by Robert A. Heinlein.

  139. The usual suspects... by grikdog · · Score: 1

    Douglas Adams, Terry Pratchett, Neil Gaiman, James H. Schmitz (just Karres, no Telzey or Trigger), J. R. R. Tolkien, J. K. Rowling, D. J. McHale, to name just a few of the modern heavy hitters.

    Isaac Asimov should be proactively expunged from libraries, not for being controversial, but for being a pompous ass who actually expected The Three Laws of Robotics (*gag* *retch*) to be implemented on the battlefield, indicating a serious misfire of imagination. Most of the Dirty Dozen or so potboiling hacks from the sixties through the nineties can ignored -- all of Heinlein, all of Sturgeon, all of LeGuin, all of Haldeman or Norton, Zelazney or Foster, Cherryh or McAffrey, nearly all of Bradbury, and absolutely none of Rottenberry and his running dogs, certainly nothing written by politicians or "serious" writers. I'd make an exception for Jack Williamson and James E. Gunn (the team), some of their titles were outstanding, such as Star Bridge.

    I'd wait a bit on Twilight and Eragon, in the fantasy genre; they may not weather the times. C. S. Lewis' Narnia series, the Pooh books of our generation, are like Barney something of a purple monstrosity -- the overt Christian symbology (especially in Dawn Treader) strikes most modern readers as downright twee, if not medieval -- except for those benighted souls who are living in the Middle Ages anyway.

    But the genre should be expanded to include manga and anime, in particular Hayao Miyazaki, Yumi Hotta and Mamoru Oishii, and it would not be remiss to include a few unexpected serial thrillers from the dim and distant past -- Charles Dickens (Christmas Carol and Pickwick Papers), Edmond Rostand (Cyrano's flight to the Moon), and one William Shakespeare (the obvious). Casting a wider net, fantasy has been rich and rife in China and Japan for centuries -- I'd mention "Dream of the Red Chamber" and some ghost stories in "Genji Monogatari".

    A few items from magico-realism, maybe: Carlos Castaneda in moderation, or Laura Esquivel.

    --
    ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
    1. Re:The usual suspects... by grikdog · · Score: 1

      I left out Lewis Carroll because you can't Google Alice or Wonderland without wandering into paedophilia-land and hentai before you know it.

      --
      ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
  140. Drop Jordan; consider Kay, Martin, Pratchett... by MattHaffner · · Score: 1

    Although I read and enjoyed much of the early WoT and find the mythos of the world interesting, in the end the lack of good editing and plot resolution leaves it out of the running for great fantasy. GRR Martin's Song of Fire and Ice is a much, much better literary series than Jordan's, although it may cross a boundary of what's "acceptable" to be taught in many school settings.

    But series may not be what you want to use if you are going for breadth. Instead, I'd strongly recommend GG Kay's Tigana and Lions of Al-Rassan as excellent, single-novel works that are probably better being self-contained for a class. For a change of pace, Pratchett's Discworld series is perfect for introducing a bit of comedic parody to the otherwise dominantly dramatic genre. The books are self-contained and many parallel other literature, which may be fun to explore. His co-authored Good Omens is another great option for a class being self contained, which reminds me that Gaiman's American Gods is probably another good suggestion...

    1. Re:Drop Jordan; consider Kay, Martin, Pratchett... by Eraesr · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Discworld is an excellent choice. Many of the Discworld books also reflect upon "real world" issues. The book "The Truth" for instance, delves into the whole issue of trustworthy journalism. While the series parodist nature make it appear like it does so in a superficial way, some of the books do expose some intelligent views on serious issues. This is mostly true for the more recent books though, as the first seven to ten books are mostly parodies on the whole fantasy genre. This in itself makes it an interesting add-on for a scifi/fantasy curriculum though.

  141. Everyone will jump in with their favourites. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll add TH White ("Once and Future King") and Peake's Gormenghast for fantasy; and Harry Harrison (any "Bill, the Galactic Hero" or "Stainless Steel Rat" - who says it has to be serious doleful scifi?).

  142. Had a college Sci-Fi Lit course.. by mhatle · · Score: 1

    I attended a college with a wonderful Sci-Fi lit course. As others have indicated forcing students to see Lit through the eyes of the teacher is going to kill any interest in the course. Instead the class was focused on discussion of the topics, background into the reason why various facets of the material were generated, i.e. Parallelism to time and events, etc.

    Also focusing a Lit class specifically on reading books is IMHO a mistake often made in course like this. Doing things like bringing in movies such as "When the Earth Stood Still" (the original not the WHOA! version).. Even reading books like Jurassic Park (which I hated), and then paralleling it to the movie (which was worse then the books) and what trade-offs had to be done. It was very informative and a good way to introduce people who are not into Sci-Fi (and Fantasy) into the genre, and give additional background to people who may have been reading it for years.

    Start with short stories, and move toward more mainstream novels and authors. During half a year you should be able to go through at least 5 books and numerous short stories and at least 2 or 3 movies adaptations.

  143. consider some Soviet science fiction by Noiser · · Score: 1

    For variety, consider some Soviet science fiction.

    The author with the most neutral and universal appeal, especially to young people, is probably Kir Bulychev.

    The brothers Arkady and Boris Strugatsky are more brainy. They are immensely popular among Russian-speaking geeks and hackers. You may have heard about the film "Stalker" and "The Inhabited Island", which are based on their novels.

    The more communist authors are Alexander Belyayev and Ivan Yefremov. Despite the political angle of many of their works they were translated into English and other languages and well-regarded outside of the USSR. They honestly imagined that the future would be communist - this is an important point that you should consider telling your students.

  144. A short list of some I would choose by lanthar · · Score: 1

    Short stories:
    Unfortunately, you'll find it is hard to get many short stories together that you want to use without picking a random anthology. Otherwise you'll be hunting all over for books. Instead I would really suggest that you get "The Science Fiction Hall of Fame, Volume One" a short story collection used by many SF classes. It actually includes several of the stories and authors I've already listed. See it here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Science_Fiction_Hall_of_Fame_Volume_One,_1929-1964

    Classic Novels:
    - Alfred Bester, The Stars My Destination : IMHO the best book ever. I reread it every year or so. Read the wikipedia page about it.
    - Walter Miller, A Canticle for Leibowitz : an excellent example nuclear apocalypse leading into cyclical history. (also refer to The Mote in God's Eye for the same theme and it's impact on an alien race after hundreds of repeats of nuclear war)
    - A.E. Van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher : a large conglomeration of gun rights supporters vs an empire. One quote was "The right to own weapons is the right to be free". Interestingly Van Vogt's writings later led to what became scientology. [note, I've just looked at the sf hall of fame book I mentioned and the short story version of this is included]
    - Pohl / Kornbluth, The Space Merchants : an excellent treatment of the possibilities of capitalism + advertising taken to their extreme in an overpopulated world.
    - Asimov, The Caves of Steel : A detective story featuring an overpopulated Earth, fear of robots replacing human jobs, and agoraphobia on the new planets that are minimally settled.
    - The Science Fiction Hall of Fame, Volume Two : this includes several other still applicable novellas such as "The Marching Morons" (surely used as the basis for the movie "Idiocracy" where advertising is used to direct the now moronic populace).
    I'd pick more, but you only have one semester. I'm trying to think of some good environmental destruction stories, but nothing excellent is coming to mind that isn't a multi-book set. Anyone want to cover that topic?

  145. Girls by syousef · · Score: 1

    What's the bet this is an all male class, and joining it is tantamount to social and sexual suicide. Poor bastards are Darwining themselves. What belongs is the stereotype be banished.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  146. John Wyndham by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    deserves a mention.

    The Chrysalids and Day of the Triffids are two of my all time favorites.
    Very similar in style to Wells, with an emphasis on people who forced to adapt to changing society.

  147. Dune, Dune and more Dune! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure one could teach an entire class about all the ideas involved with the Dune series. As a philosophy major I'd love to teach a class such as that in the future. I first read the series in High School and I think that the themes of the first book (not so much any succeeding books in the series) are definitely palatable with that age group. It really is Sci-Fi's magnum opus and I couldn't imagine any class about Science Fiction that does not talk extensively about Dune, much as any Fantasy class shouldn't neglect the Lord of the Rings.

    If there MUST be a wider variety of books, however, the big names of sci-fi to me are always:
    H.G. Wells
    Isaac Asimov
    Arthur C. Clarke
    Heinlein
    Orwell

    Pick a few books from each - Foundation, the Time Machine, War of the Worlds, Rendezvous with Rama, etc. I think the main focus of any such class ought to be Dune, though. Hell, the main focus of every class ought to be Dune. It is applicable everywhere and anywhere.

  148. A Fantasy Suggestion by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

    I would suggest Brandon Sanderson's work as easy to read Fantasy. I have read them, and I really don't like to read. The work flows well and does not get lost in flowery description that authoers liek Robert Jordan tend to get lost in.

    In addition, I know he has at least one stand alone book instaed of being part of a volume of 3+ books.

    --
    Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
  149. What bout some Dragons ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    mmm perhaps some Anne Mccaffery perfect mix of sci fi and fantasy !!

  150. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  151. John Wyndham! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm surprised I didn't see John Wyndham mentioned anywhere. 'The Chrysalids' is classic post apocalyptic Science Fiction.

    1. Re:John Wyndham! by conureman · · Score: 1

      The Day of the Triffids is the one I remember, and I heard that they made a decent movie out of it. I don't recall if it had any thought-provoking exposition, though, just a good, fun read.

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  152. A must-read for HS-level students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Forever War, Joe Haldeman. Written by a Nam vet when the topic of the real war was too hot to approach directly, one of the best sci fi novels I've ever read.

  153. James P. Hogan, especially Voyage From Yesteryear by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    Especially "Voyage From Yesteryear":
        http://www.jamesphogan.com/books/info.php?titleID=29&cmd=summary
    "In the meantime, Earth went through a dodgy period, but managed in the end to muddle through. The fun begins when a generation ship housing a population of thousands arrives to "reclaim" the colony on behalf of the repressive, authoritarian regime that emerged following the crisis period. The Mayflower II brings with it all the tried and tested apparatus for bringing a recalcitrant population to heel: authority, with its power structure and symbolism, to impress; commercial institutions with the promise of wealth and possessions, to tempt and ensnare; a religious presence, to awe and instill duty and obedience; and if all else fails, armed military force to compel. But what happens when these methods encounter a population that has never been conditioned to respond?"

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  154. Short Stories and lots of them! by dmomo · · Score: 1

    What is Sci-Fi and Fantasy? I thought I knew until I started listening to Escape Pod and Pod Castle, both short-fiction pod casts.

    I always considered myself "not all that into sci-fi or fantasy". Both of these shows exposed me to such a wide array of stories that I don't even know what Sci-Fi or Fantasy is anymore. The line between those are blurred. As sometimes is the line between those and "traditional" fiction as well.

    Steve Eley (host of Escape Pod) referred to both genres as "Speculative Fiction". That's something I can get behind. The world can be flashy, and the gimmick can be amusing, but a good story is a good story. Short fiction is good because the reader can survey a large variety without investing too much in the duds.

    Sci-Fi certainly has its duds. Lots of them for sure. But the Gems. Wow.

  155. hmmm..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I liked Bradbury's Martian Chronicles. it went thru ages on Mars, which you could almost equate to societal changes here. Starship Troopers is a great exposition on society. I think it would be interesting to take an old Asimov short story and have them rewrite it in modern language and idioms...

  156. I can answer this!!!111ONEONEONE by kimvette · · Score: 2, Funny

    Re: What Belongs In a High School Sci-Fi/Fantasy Lit Class?

    Microsoft total cost of ownership studies. ;)

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  157. Short Stories! by locallyunscene · · Score: 1

    Short stories are good!

    The Last Question
    The Babyeating Aliens
    They're made out of Meat

    For some short(er) novels try:

    Slaughterhouse Five and/or The Sirens of Titan and/or Cat's Cradle
    The Wonderful Wizard of Oz(for a well known fairy tale)
    Then you can follow it up with the longer Wicked or The Ugly Stepsister or some other modern retelling so you can discuss the clash of a mundane world with a fantasy world.

    For longer books I would recommend:
    Ender's Game
    Stranger in a Strange Land
    and maybe The Dragon Never Sleeps

  158. So Long and Thanks for All the Fish by dmomo · · Score: 1

    This was my favorite out of the Hitchiker's series. It has the normal quirkiness and whit of a Douglas Adams book, but is overall a great love story. This book can stand alone from the others in the series and still make sense. A lot of it happens on Earth to "normal" people and, in my opinion, really highlights Adams' versatility as a story teller.

  159. SciFi/Fantasy are very different by digitalhermit · · Score: 1

    At first glance, mixing science fiction and fantasy seems like a good thing. After all, they both tend to occupy the same shelves at the Barnes & Noble or your fill-in-the-name-of-your-local-book-superstore.

    Now I'm not going to say that there's such a thing as "true" science fiction, or "hard" science fiction. Clearly, there are elements of fantasy in science fiction and vice versa. But I will say that there is a type of science fiction and a type of fantasy that I do enjoy. IMHO, good science fiction presents issues, whether social or technological or whatever, and bends the story to highlight that issue. The issue is sometimes couched in metaphor, but more often, the issue is laid out bare.

    For example, in the recent District 9, there is a clear social commentary about immigration. The commentary is not hidden beneath facades of poetry and metaphor, but quite obvious. Zelazny's "Damnation Alley" is about what happens when we mess with nature. In that story, the environment almost literally hits back. Under a fantasy author's treatment, maybe nature is instead a pissed-off woodland naiad that washes away someone's water mill. I'm not saying that either is better, but they are different approaches.

    For example, think of T.H. White's _The Once and Future King_. There was this notion running throughout the story that the fate of the land was tied to the fate of the king. As the king suffered, so did the land. It was mystical in many ways. Contrast this to a SF story where perhaps a character is tied intimately into a spaceship's control systems and his/her fate is directly tied into the ship's (there are at least four similar stories that come to mind :) ).

    I enjoy science fiction immensely (and some fantasy too). I would hate to lend credence to this notion that science fiction and fantasy are just stories about alternate worlds.

  160. Masterpieces by smd75 · · Score: 1

    A great book for numerous short stories by a large variety of authors is Masterpieces edited by Orson Scott Card. It is the best thing Ive read.

    --
    Im a troll because I disagree with you.
  161. Logan's Run by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Logan's Run" by William F. Nolan and George Clayton Johnson would be a recommendation, but some of the content might be controversial even though it's quite tame by today's standards. Set in the early 22nd century, a hundred or so years after a youth-led world revolution, people are limited to a life-span of 21 years. When they turn 21, they report to a government euthanasia facility, or they run and are hunted down.

    I have a omnibus edition of this novel combined with the two sequels that William F. Nolan published. In the forward, Nolan talks about one of the inspirations of the story: he heard the phrase "life begins at 40" used during a talk radio broadcast. Disclaimer: I'm paraphrasing from what I remember. Nolan says that he then thought about turning the phrase around to "life ends at 21", and then built up a picture of what society would look like if this was the case. The result: a society with little or no forward thinking, hedonistic, self-serving, very much live-fast and die-young. And a society where individuals don't really question the status quo until they start to reach to reach the end of their allotted time.

    One of the unique aspects of Science Fiction or "speculative fiction" is that it provides stories that can't be told in modern settings, or even historical settings. Star Wars is a great story, but very little of the story relies on the Science Fiction aspect of it.

  162. Novels? Screw that... by ZarathustraDK · · Score: 1

    Serve up the entire LOTR and Dune written works. That ought to keep the little critters occupied.

    Side-bonus: Scifi/fantasy-class also counts as PE, just tell them bring all the books along.

    --
    If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
  163. I took a sci-fi lit class. This is what we did. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best and hardest lit class I took in high school was a sci-fi class. The reading was presented chronologically by publication to track the progress of the genre. Our midterms and finals were writing assignments where we had to write short stories in the genre. This is what I remember reading:

    The Martian Chronicles
    Rendezvous with Rama
    Assorted Dick short stories
    Burning Chrome (the short story, not the whole anthology)
    The last 2 days of class (and high school for me) were spent watching Blade Runner directors cut.

    Not a complete list. This was a semester course. We did a lot of reports and we had lots of vocabulary quizzes from the reading.

  164. Short Stories, and focus what authors mean to say. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, duh, if you're really going to do that, you should focus on short stories, because no sane high school student will read several novels for class.

    Also, you should try to get a representative collection of what SciFi (etc.) authors have to say: Allegories on specific social issues, to general reflections on human nature, to pure fun stories without content.

    Examples:

    Allegory on social issues: Planet of the Apes == allegory on racism, which forces the reader's point of view to be with the victim group (humans), while with historic novels readers often take the side of their respective country/group/culture.

    General reflections: Brave New World == If we could create the perfect society, would living in it be worthwhile?

    Fun story without content: Star Wars. Certainly fun, but if it has an underlying message, I for one have not been able to figure out what it might be.

    And yes, I know that none of my examples are actually short stories...

  165. Ursula K. Le Guin, especially the Earthsea Trilogy by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    Ursula K. Le Guin writes about balance in life; everything is great:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_K._Le_Guin
    She writes a lot of things that might appeal to a less techy audience, but still have deep meanings.

    The Earthsea Trilogy is more fantasy than sci-fi, but is great as it covers one person through growing up and retirement. (There are more books as well.)

    "Four ways to forgiveness" is more sci-fi-ish as an example:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Ways_to_Forgiveness

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  166. Some recommendations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doc Smith - Triplanetary - The Lensman novels are where it all began. The stuff they are familiar with all goes back to here.

    Burroughs - A Princess of Mars. Easy read. Burroughs style and pacing set the standard for the genre, for good or bad, for quite a while. He was perhaps the first real "Pulp" sci-fi writer, and no, I do not put Smith in that category. When he did it, it was original.

    Lester Dent/Kenneth Robeson - Yes, I count Doc Savage as science fiction. He and his gang are very much the basis for much of Spiderman, Superman, the Fantastic Four and most definitely Batman. If you pick the right one, you can even get a good discussion going on women's rights and or racism.

    Asimov - I, Robot - These stories have formed the foundation (pardon the pun) of how we think of machines and their relationship to humans

    Huxley - Brave New World - as some stated earlier, this should be required reading.

    Clarke - 2001. The movie is great, perhaps one of the greatest sci-fi films of all time. If you can watch the movie in class, even better as you can watch it in 2-3 classes instead of reading it over the course of a week.

    If you can do a TV episode, do Star Trek's "City On The Edge Of Forever". While Ellison is credited with the screenplay, many, many people had their hands in it, and I think Ellison even denies its his, except when the royalty check comes in.

    Dick - Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, alternately you can introduce blade runner. Fantastic lit, fantastic movie, either one makes great sci-fi. Here you can possibly read it faster than watching (assuming it would take 3 classes to watch). Allows you to discuss what is it to be human and alive, a question that may become less easily answered in the near future. I would personally go for the reading, but like I said, you can't really go wrong either way.

    Andrew Niccol - Gattaca - if you can go with one that was purely a movie. I watch this movie every few years, and each time I find something new to be frightened of because each year I hear something else in the news that points in this direction. Wonderful movie to spur discussion of the morality of eugenics. great tie in to the Bene Gesserit of Dune if you want to go there, but I am not sure I would for this class.

    David Weber - On Basilisk Station. Military sci-fi, and good military sci-fi at that. Reminiscent of Horation Hornblower. Nice example of taking tried and true sci-fi themes and attempting a fresh new take on them while attempting to remain internally consistent (which Weber does through almost 20 Honor Harrington novels now, so its an introduction to a great series should they want to read more)

  167. babysitting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm so glad I'm not in school. This is the worthless crap they make you choose from to use as an excuse for babysitting. School these days is all about babysitting. Keeping kids occupied so they aren't on the street causing trouble.

  168. Bibliography by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The SciFi that has resonated most with me is stuff that examines the human condition from some extreme distance or perspective, and therefore gives some special insight into it. There is no real reason fantasy couldn't do this more than it does, but I haven't read a whole lot that gets beyond simple adventure.

    So my quick bibliography of mostly concise works that fit that criteria:

    The time machine, H.G. Wells
    Farenheit 451, Ray Bradbury
    The Disposessed, Ursula LeGuin
    The Dosadi Experiment, Frank Herbert
    Speaker for the Dead, Orson Scott Card
    The Diamond Age, Neal Stephenson
    Accelerando, Charles Stross
    Last Call, Tim Powers

  169. Some good picks for HS by Pedrito · · Score: 1

    I haven't read much modern Sci-fi/fantasy, but I've read a lot of the old school stuff.

    Sci-Fi
    I'd recommend Foundation and pretty much anything from the Robot series for Asimov. If for no other reason, the fact that he was one of the most prolific writers in sci-fi (that is, he wrote a lot of books, sci-fi and otherwise) and an expert in more fields than 99% of the population, makes him worth reading. I suspect a lot of Heinlen's stuff is probably a little too sexual for HS students, but Stranger in a Strange Land is a classic that shouldn't be missed. Pretty much everyone has said Ring World. Can't really go wrong there. Roger Zelazny's Jack of Shadows brings back some memories as does Ender's Game.

    Fantasy
    I didn't read nearly as much fantasy and Tolkein might be a bit heavy, but definitely classic. In high school, I was a fan of Piers Anthony's Adept series. Though not classic or groundbreaking, it did have a lot of clever notions that I enjoyed. Anne McCaffrey's Pern stuff was huge when I was a kid. Though I never really cared for her writing, I imagine there's something of value there.

  170. You were asked to develop a literature course? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For the love of god, split your posts into paragraphs. I took one look at the OP and said "I'm not reading that."

  171. Ecotopia by Ernest Callenbach by Dylan31 · · Score: 1

    Ecotopia: The Notebooks and Reports of William Weston by Ernest Callenbach. Ecotopia was one of the first Environmental Utopian books and is an alternate future occuring in 1999 when the book was written in 1974. It deals with topics ranging from ecology to feminism, and discusses technologies such as videoconferencing and printing on demand books, and social phenomenon like reality television 20 years before they were developed. It is considered required reading by many in the modern green movement and helped push the boundaries in of environmental laws and the environmental movement in the 1970's.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
  172. Philip K. Dick and HG Wells by wonkavader · · Score: 1

    Unless you're reading at least something by Philip K. Dick, I think your class is not much of a class on the subject.

    Philip defines not just science fiction in the modern age, but modern writing. The key to good science fiction is that the science is not important -- it's the science's impact on the society and the individual that is important. Phil knew nothing about science, which freed him to actually write.

    Other writers, before him, came up with a tech idea and showed what it would do to society, but Phil came up with non-science nonsense and explored what that would do to society. He freed science fiction to move freely, instead of being anchored to ponderous rigor.

    And then there's HG Wells. Why write SF? HG Wells looked at what the wars of his time did to people and society and came up with worlds where the tech around us destroyed the things we held sacred and pulled us into more and worse wars. Now we look back and think "Duh" because we are a much, much more cynical age -- thanks hugely to him. He showed us (as in The Food of The Gods) that all tech will be used for wars, no matter how non-military it might seem.

  173. Never mind the fiction, where's the analysis? by AJWM · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If this is really a serious course in SF/F lit, what texts are you using from the analysis side? They'll give you a good guide to what stories/novels you should be looking at.

    It's been a long time since I took such a course, so I don't know if Hartwell's 1984 Age of Wonders ("a penetrating exploration of the realities behind the history, development and current popularity of science fiction") or Ketterer's New Worlds for Old: The Apocalyptic Imagination, Science Fiction, and American Literature (1974) are still in print. They're authors worth looking for, anyway. There are also more popular studies such as Brian Aldiss's Billion Year Spree or James Gunn's various works on the history of science fiction. Speaking of the latter, you might also check with the Center for the Study of Science Fiction at the University of Kansas, seems like an excellent resource for what you want.

    (Personally I'd argue that unless you're doing a compare-and-contrast, the science fiction and fantasy genres are so different (excluding space fantasy like Star Wars, here) that they probably ought not be studied together. It's almost like a course on "Romances and Thrillers" - yeah there are some common elements, but....)

    --
    -- Alastair
  174. Discworld by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Something from Terry Pratchett's (AMAZING) Discworld series should absolutely be included.

  175. Alas, many of the good ones are very long by Mad+Hamster · · Score: 1

    In my High School (-equivalent) days we did Slaughterhouse 5 and it was a great success. Now I'm not saying you should do Vonnegut, except perhaps The Sirens of Titan might still be readable.

    Some "fantasy" suggestions:
    - Harry Potter, these are absolutely great books & also deals with the pain of being an adolescent
    - The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley, for the emos & the feminists and btw truly a masterpiece.

    SF:
    "Snow Crash" by Stephenson is on the TIME 100 Best Novels list and one of the two main characters is a teenage female skateboarder who is about the only smart person in it. This is a funny book and has cyberpunk as well.
    Brin's Kiln People.

    Or you could do a 3000-page Science/Fantasy/Horror work, the "Night's Dawn" trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton.
    Or "His Dark Materials" by P. Pullman.

    Be warned some of these books deal with stuff like sex, emotions, evolution, religion, magic and corporate ethics so may be risky to teach if you're in the US so perhaps you should ask yourself WWFSMD?

    May I suggest you stay away from Jordan? That is not literature! I *did* read about the first 2½ volume of his series before I realised this was Barbara-Cartland-In-A-Fantasy-Setting.

    --
    Yandelvayasna grldenwi stravenka
    1. Re:Alas, many of the good ones are very long by arethuza · · Score: 1

      Thanks for mentioning His Dark Materials - these really are some of the best fantasy books. The underlying themes might be a *bit* unpopular though - especially in the Subtle Knife and the Amber Spyglass.

  176. my college sf class included .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My college sf class at Texas A&M included these novels: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy; The Mote in God's Eye; Blade Runner; The Sirens of Titan; I, Robot; and Childhood's End. I do remember an anthology of short stories, but I can't remember the title. But I do remember reading "Repent Harlequin, said the Tick-tock man."

    Other works to consider: Nine Princes in Amber; The Guns of Avalon; A Princess of Mars; Gods of Mars; Warlord of Mars. Have Spacesuit, Will Travel; Anubis Gates; Ender's Game; and Footfall.

  177. Fahrenheit 451 by w0mprat · · Score: 1

    Get your class to read this, then use the oppurtunity discuss freedom of information, piracy, DRM.

    What? I can't hear any grinding axe..?

    --
    After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
  178. My 2 bits worth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Assuming this is junior of senior grade:
      Excerpts from Fahrenheit 451; Well at the World's End; Lord of the Rings; Out of the Silent Planet Lewis; Piers Anthony fun book
        Books/stories Time Machine [War of the World's overdone IMHO]; One of Doyle's Mars books, [they're pretty quick reads] then give them a choice of something like:
            Dune
            Tunnel in the Sky
            one of the first Pern books
            Wrinkle in Time
            The Hobbit
            Harrison's West of Eden
            or 20 Piers Anthony books [that's to make up for the depth of the others and besides they're funny]

  179. Pratchett's Discworld by pope523 · · Score: 1

    I've never met anyone who's read a Discworld novel who doesn't love it. I absolutely recommend something from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series as a prime example of less serious fantasy. Reaper Man, Interesting Times and The Hogfather are a few of my favorites.

    1. Re:Pratchett's Discworld by LarryIsMe · · Score: 1

      Absolutely include Terry Pratchett. Missing from the list are some of the most important fantasy writers of this century:

      Terry Pratchett
      George R. R. Martin
      Robert Howard
      Lord Dunsany
      J. K. Rowling
      Roald Dahl
      Neil Gaiman

  180. Welcome to the Monkey House by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Welcome to the Monkey House" by Kurt Vonnegut counts as sci-fi, and is excellent literature to boot! Many short stories easily read by highschoolers.

  181. Try meta-reading. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

    I took a world lit course in college, and the one book that we were recommended was Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell. Great stuff about the Hero monomyth. really puts long book cycles into perspective.

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  182. a book / story list by ukemike · · Score: 1

    Your book list would be different depending on what the class is. Is it a history of SciFi? or is it a survey of SciFi. I think you should ignore fantasy altogether. You will find it nearly impossible to adequately cover even the most basic selection of sci-fi in a high school class. Since the OP asked for specific suggestions here are a few. This is actually fairly hard since scifi is often long. For instance I would want to suggest Stranger in a Strange Land, the Robot trilogy, the Foundation trilogy, The Invisible Man, Fahrenheit 451, 1984, Brave New World, and that would just be from the early and classic periods. I could keep going but the reading list would be way beyond what a high schooler could digest in such a short time. More recent works which are also great: Neuromancer, Robinson's Mars Trilogy, Snow Crash. When going through this list a good idea occurred to me. For a final project make each student pick a different Hugo award winner, write a paper and do a presentation to the class. The Hugo awards for best short story is also a good starting place.

    --
    -- QED
  183. Too much by orthancstone · · Score: 1

    Anathem would take up an entire college semester, let alone a high school one.

    Besides, the students wouldn't have the appreciation for it. You need years of scientific and philosophical study to really grasp the entirety of Anathem. I just can't imagine many high schoolers have the knowledge of classical philosophy, as well as some of the advanced mathematics, to avoid having intricate details go right over their head.

    1. Re:Too much by PeterBrett · · Score: 1

      Anathem would take up an entire college semester, let alone a high school one.

      Besides, the students wouldn't have the appreciation for it. You need years of scientific and philosophical study to really grasp the entirety of Anathem. I just can't imagine many high schoolers have the knowledge of classical philosophy, as well as some of the advanced mathematics, to avoid having intricate details go right over their head.

      (Spoilers ahead).

      Agreed. After four years of fairly intensive university education, I "get" pretty much all of the mathematics and philosophy of science in the book (I think) but there's one part I'm still having difficulty tracking down -- what's the real-world equivalent of Lady Baritoe's "Sconics" in the book? Discussed by Arsibalt during the journey from Saunt Edhar to Bly's Butte. This is a classic example of Stephenson "showing his work", but unfortunately my philosophy isn't strong enough to work out what he's referring to...

  184. Counting Heads by gemada · · Score: 1

    by David Marusek. Brilliant, insightful look at the near future.

  185. Ender's Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my high school lit class we read Ender's Game, which to my surprise, everyone in the class pretty much loved it. If you want to expose kids to the genre, I say go with this book. Chances are they'll enjoy it so much they'll begin looking for other Sci-Fi novels on their own.

    I know most don't know this one, but Roger Zelazny - Nine Princes in Amber would be a fantastic selection. Perfect blend of Sci-Fi and Fantasy. Doubt it will ever happen though.

  186. Remarkable by JumperCables233 · · Score: 0

    I haven't seen one of my sci-fi favorites on here, a book that I believe to be on par with "1984" or "Fahrenheit 451", and that's "The Children of Men" by P.D. James. Particularly the opening description of a future world without posterity and therefore without out hope is truly striking. (It should be noted that the film, while quite good, has almost nothing to do with the book). Another thing to consider would be to incorporate some Graphic Novels into the mix. "V for Vendetta" would be a good choice here.

  187. Extra credit for the course: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If anyone can get through Xenocide.

  188. Asimov Short Stories a must! by chaim79 · · Score: 1

    Isac Asimov: The Complete Stories is a great volume of short stories that cover many 'what-if' situations and would be a great way to get the kids going on 'hard' sf (ie. not simple 'action in space' but questions and where they lead).

    For how to actually structure the teaching, personally I would have one of the short stories as an 'assigned reading' for the next class (most are only a few dozen pages, easy reading). At the next class I would have open discussion with the class discussing the story:

    • What question is the story exploring?
    • What are other possible answers to the question?
    • What do you think living in the 'world' of that story would be like?
    • What are some other implications of ____ that the author didn't explore?

    Probably for major tests, I would go away from 'write essay about story' and instead go with something like 'of the stories in this book, find a question that the story is pursuing, and write a different answer to that question', basically look at the path that the author took and see what other paths they could take with the question.

    Other collections of short stories could be used for this purpose, but you should know the stories fairly well beforehand to make sure there aren't any that would really be wrong for kids. I've been through Azimov's collection and all of them are more-or-less 'teenager friendly'.

    In fact, I think this subject would be very interesting to teach... I may have to look into it... :)

    --
    DEMETRIUS: Villain, what hast thou done?
    AARON: Villain, I have done thy mother.
    Shakespeare invents 'your mom'
  189. Walter M. Miller, Jr. by Damage+Ctrl · · Score: 1

    I reread "A Canticle for Leibowitz" not long ago and it still holds up well.

  190. Re:i'm not trying to be a troll by AJWM · · Score: 1

    but while you're teaching high school students science fiction, kids in other high schools are learning actual science

    In other high schools, kids are learning about mutual exclusivity.

    But the Pauli Exclusion Principle is actual science.

    --
    -- Alastair
  191. I had this class... by demonbug · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was fortunate enough to have taken a science fiction class in high school. I'd recommend nearly all of the books we covered:

    Starship Troopers (Heinlein)
    Childhood's End (Clarke)
    Dune (Herbert)
    A Canticle for Leibowitz (Miller)
    Space Merchants (Pohl/Kornbluth)
    Ender's Game (Card)

    Those are the ones I remember that I would recommend. The only other novel I recall from the class was Earth Abides by George Stewart, but I detested it.

    I'm sure there are any number of books you could add (I think there must have been something from Asimov that we read, but I don't recall what), but that was a pretty good crop with decent variety, and didn't include some of the other classics that the students have read/will read in other classes (like Fahrenheit 451 and 1984). We also did a couple movies (Star Wars as a framework for the traditional hero's journey, Independence Day because it was new and big [a friend and I wrote a tongue-in-cheek paper claiming that Independence Day was actually about the spread of the evil that was AOL, spread by those pesky disks]). We also did a few short stories: A Sound of Thunder, Prospector's Special, and some story where an architect builds a crazy multidimensional house that collapses in on itself stick in my mind.

    I'm not sure what I'd go to for the fantasy portion of such a class. Tolkien of course, but after that it becomes much more difficult - there are a lot of science fiction books that are stand-alone, but with fantasy a lot of the better ones I've read are part of a series, and it becomes difficult to identify one book from a series that really encompasses everything you want to include. Ursula K. LeGuin's Earthsea books are great (and the first three are quite short, so you might even be able to fit them all in), maybe The Riddlemaster of Hed by Patricia McKillip (sp?).

    1. Re:I had this class... by VoyagerRadio · · Score: 1

      I'm with you on these. Fahrenheit 451 was a remarkably compelling read for me as a kid. Real page-burner -- uh, turner. What caught my eye about your post, however, is Ursula K. Le Guin. Though I'm only recently familiar with LeGuin's work, and haven't yet read the Earthsea books, I'd definitely recommend the works I've read, Left Hand of Darkness or the short story I read last week, The Matter of Seggri. Both are gender and genre-bending stories that are both representative of traditional sci-fi and yet defy convention. As an alternative, LeGuin's essays on the topic of sci-fi -- since she challenged the existing notions about the genre -- would be excellent additions to the curriculum.

      --
      Harold
    2. Re:I had this class... by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      I thought it was The Sound of Thunder, but whatever. I'd also push for a focus on Short Stories and I'd add "I Have No Mouth But I Must Scream" by Ellison and "Answer" by Brown.

  192. Information Overload by Demonantis · · Score: 1

    Too much information for one class. It would be important to cover the era the author lived in. That usually gives huge insight to their writing and I don't see how to do that without eating up a lot of time Maybe focus on a sub genre or a specific time period for the stories. Short Stories would be more realistic, but you lose the benefit of some of those really interesting works that everyone else likes to mention. Also assume that they will take this course because they have an interest in the subject so they might have already read them. Pick obscure and international pieces. The writing styles would be worth the exposure. A course like this will be no easy task to design if you don't want it to be a bird course. Good Luck.

  193. Fantasy Books I Recommend by spencerg83 · · Score: 1

    I found that, in recent years, Brandon Sanderson has been able to write the most compelling fantasy fiction that I've ever read. "Elantris", the "Mistborn Trilogy" have all been excellent reads that deal with, more than anything, interpersonal relationships (Though Mistborn deals a lot with the magic system in place).

    For Science Fiction, "Ender's Game" and "Ender's Shadow", by Orson Card, are also very good books, because they deal, again, with interpersonal relationships.

    To be honest, I feel that I would have gained a lot of knowledge and insight had I read "Ender's Game" beforehand into human individual and group mentalities, as well as strategy and critical thinking, while in High School.

  194. So much... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1984 is a great book. Comparing what was sci-fi and and is now sci-fact would be fun, bringing us the Verns and what not...

  195. The Food of the Gods by magarj · · Score: 1

    Some of Clarke's short story's would be a great place to start. Other good selections would be: The Nine Billion names of God The Sentential (Basis for 2001) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Short_stories_by_Arthur_C._Clarke

  196. Suggestions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Okay, one work I'd recommend that would go along with some of the things that students in high school have already read (ie. mythology type works) is SNOW CRASH by Neil Gaiman.

    Also, I would heartily _NOT_ recommend Robert Jordan, as his works are very poorly written and do not well-acquaint students with the fantasy genre. Instead, I would recommend starting them off with THE GAME OF THRONES, by George R.R. Martin. Martin's works also mirror events from human history, ie. the Wars of the Roses. (But, like Jordan, there is some fear that Martin will not finish the series before the end of his life. However, THE GAME OF THRONES, book one of the Song of Ice and Fire series, can stand alone fairly well, which will give students a taste of reading and entice them to continue.)

    Another author to whom your students could really relate is Guy Gavriel Kay, particularly his LIONS OF AL-RASSAN. This entirely mirrors the Spanish epic, EL CID, and is about the Reconquista and the religious discourse surrounding that. (It's an amazing book, and I would recommend it to anyone, adult or high-school age.)

    1. Re:Suggestions by aleandait · · Score: 1

      Jeff Noon "Vurt", "Pixel Juice" "Automated Alice" the VERY short stories by Frederik Brown ("Solipsist", "Sentinel") Grant Morrison "The Invisibles"

  197. One Word: by tp_xyzzy · · Score: 1

    GEB.

  198. Titles are irrelevant - only ideas matter by h4plo · · Score: 1

    (This is coming from the perspective of a rhetoric and literature graduate student) Your focus shouldn't be on the individual titles, but what you hope students will get out of those titles - and what those focuses demonstrate to the student about this form of literature. For example, a major theme in science fiction is paranoia and a fear of the government; a number of works exemplify this, although my personal preference is towards Philip K Dick novels. You might also consider a section of "utopic/dystopic" visions: Asimov's Foundation series, contrasted with, perhaps, Gibson's Neuromancer. These works are both rife with great conversational pieces - "Is there any symbolism in Molly's mirrored eyes? How come the Foundation had to be on the other end of the Universe?" Are the dystopic/utopic visions socially-based [in equality, evolution, etc.], or are they based on technology [the net, AI, etc]? Further, what do these authorial choices reflect about the author themselves? (Technology suggests man cannot attain salvation himself; social, that he can[in a Utopic setting]) You can even extend these into the realm of fantasy, with perhaps Tolkien's work being utopic and the Malazan series by Steven Erikson pulling in for dystopic (fantasy is not my strong suit). Some of those ideas might be a bit much for a high school-level course, but this type of discourse is more or less the standard at university - may as well prepare them early! I'd also really consider, towards the end of the semester, trying to break down genre lines. Plenty of works exist that are both contemporary fiction and science fiction, even while blending fantasy elements - Gibson's Pattern Recognition is great for this. This might also help fend off the literary genre elitist trolls that you are no doubt to stir up.

  199. Authors by eav · · Score: 1

    Gordon Dickson, Andre Norton, Fred Saberhagen, Fritz Leiber, Keith Laumer, Philip Jose Farmer, Katherine Maclean, Stanley G Weinbaum .

  200. What? IMHO that's not true! by Myrcutio · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The really great SF novels incorporate just as much character development and moral dilema as any contemporary fiction. Orson Scott Card for example frequently gives his protagonists (and antagonists occasionally) moral issues to deal with in futuristic settings. One of the things i love most about the Ender series is the way he uses relativistic space travel to alter the relationships over decades long correspondence. See Ender in Exile -- in the last few chapters -- for an example of this.

    Also since the parent mentioned 1984, it's worth noting how much Orwell focused on the dystopia's effect on Smith's psyche. Not to say the environment isn't significant, but you can't discount the human element in a good book, no matter the genre.

    Other authors i would add to the list to cover, Niel Gaiman (Stardust is priceless, though there is an explicit scene), C.S. Lewis (Perelandra is difficult diction, but really creative), Marlowe (Faustus could be considered an early Fantasy), Dan Simmons (if adult language/graphic content are admissible), Bram Stoker, and if you want a fantasy piece that comments on the time period, Spenser's Faerie Queene is exactly that.

    Other authors i haven't personally read but have been recommended are Feist, Salvator, Saberhagen, and maybe Thousand and One Nights, but that's a stretch.

    1. Re:What? IMHO that's not true! by BarlowBrad · · Score: 1

      Perelandra is good, but my personal favorite of Lewis' SciFi/Fantasy work is "That Hideous Strength". It just sucked me in and never let me go when I read it in high school.

    2. Re:What? IMHO that's not true! by Swampash · · Score: 1

      I was going to go back and check whether Card does as you say, but then I realised that I used all my Ender books when I ran out of toilet paper one weekend. A shame, as they weren't even really fit for THAT task.

  201. Issues and Authors by rotenberry · · Score: 1

    Ecology and Politics: Kim Stanley Robinson "Forty Signs of Rain"

    The role of autistic persons in society: Elizabeth Moon "The Speed of Dark"

    How persons and societies cope with pandemics: Connie Willis "Doomsday Book"

    Revolution: Robert Heinlein "Moon is a Harsh Mistress"

    Feminist issues: Connie Willis "Even the Queen"

    Responsibility of leaders to exercise justice: Lois Bujold "Mountains of Mourning"

    Utopia and Materialism: Ursula K. LeGuin "The Dispossessed"

    1. Re:Issues and Authors by onemorechip · · Score: 1

      I like your choice for a Heinlein book. Everyone seems to bring up "Starship Troopers", but "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" is so much better.

      --
      But, I wanted socialized health insurance!
  202. A list of unusually memorable and diverse stories by TechForensics · · Score: 1

    Off the top of my head, some stories that have *lifted* the top off my head. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few of equal merit.

    Startide Rising by David Brin
    Blood Music by Greg Bear
    Way Station by Clifford Simak
    Neuromancer by William Gibson
    All The Colors of Darkness by Lloyd Biggle, Jr.
    The Year of the Quiet Sun (short story, can't remember author)
    Time and Again by Jack Finney
    The Day of the Triffids by John Wyndham
    The Space Merchants by Frederick Pohl and C. M. Kornbluth
    Any of the Nebula Award anthologies
    Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein
    Dune by Frank Herbert
    The Demolished Man (short story) by Alfred Bester
    The Moon Moth (short story) by Jack Vance
    Norstrilia by Cordwainer Smith
    A Planet Named Shayol (short story) by Cordwainer Smith
    The Double Shadow by Clark Ashton Smith
    The Color Out of Space, and The Call of Cthulhu, by H. P. Lovecraft
    Mars is Heaven (short story) by Ray Bradbury
    Animal Farm by George Orwell

    Best wishes!

    --
    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
  203. (Sub-)Genre's by Traa · · Score: 1

    Like a music class, why not approach this from a (sub-)genre point of view. Claiming to cover the genre's fantasy and science-fiction, is like saying we teach music of all kinds. Classical AND modern music. How about you break it up into (and I'm no expert):
    - Classical sci-fi (Jules Verne, ...)
    - pre-hard sci-fi. (Isaac Asimov, ...), No idea what this sub-genre's name would be
    - Science-Fantasy (Douglas Adams, ...), making this up as I go
    - Cyber-punk (William Gibson, ...)
    - Space Opera (Vernor Vinge, ...)
    - Hard sci-fi (Kim Stanley Robbinson, ..)
    - Singularity visions (Corey Doctorow, ...)
    - etc.

    Of course several writers crossed borders, but that is a good topic for discussion.

    Knowing the above does a lot more good then discussion any particular "oh, oh...this book was so great" title that has been mentioned in this thread.

  204. Is it too much to ask by camperdave · · Score: 1
    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    1. Re:Is it too much to ask by jbezorg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, there are some people who would have an opinion on the authors but that is totally unfair for those who don't. So in the interest of fairness, I gave some people something to rant about so they have something to post.

      --
      I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
  205. LASFS by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

    Go to www.lasfs.org and look for the Young Adult Science Fiction reading list. There is also a children's reading list that may be helpful. I'd be a bit concerned that you don't want books that raise questions that you don't want to have to answer and that their parents don't want you to answer.

  206. Not necessarily obvious at all by Trerro · · Score: 1

    If he's looking for the classic, best-known novels, then yeah, if he's planning on teaching a class on the subject, he should already be aware of most, if not all of them.

    If he's looking for more obscure stuff - especially short stories - then there's simply no way he's read everything out there, and asking for suggestions he can read helps.

    There's also the specific matter that this is a high school class - so if he can get insights from people who have run similar classes, parents of high schoolers into sci fi, and of course, students themselves as to what's likely to seriously engage people in that age group, that has obvious value. Merely being aware of a list of good books doesn't necessarily mean you know what's likely to work well in that age group.

    Last but not least, there's the problem of time. High school is usually about ~7 classes at a time compared to the 5 in college, and college usually involves less time in class than work outside of class, whereas high school is the opposite. This means students can do a very, very, finite amount of reading for 1 course, and so the goal is be as thorough as possible with very limited time to work with - which again means that obscure short stories can be important here.

  207. What If... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are many very enjoyable and thought-provoking science fiction and fantasy books out there. But don't ignore the underlying theme they all share in common:

    "WHAT IF...?"

    I'd suggest taking just about any book and explaining the basic "what if" of the story to the class, and have them discuss what might come next. What if we had faster-than-light travel? What if we lived in a post-apocalyptic world? What if a human-looking alien child came to Earth with amazing abilities?

    Science fiction and fantasy are all about getting from such "what if" questions to one possible answer, but there are many, many more answers to be written. Challenge the students with coming up with different answers. Have them come up with their own what ifs.

    And try to use short stories as much as you can. They often condense the narrative down to the basics of the what if and the answer more so than a whole novel does. And not ever novel is to everyone's taste. You don't want to lose the students' interest with a overlong and over-boring reading assignment, even if you love the work so much you've read it a dozen or more times.

    I had a similar class once called "Science Through Science Fiction" that also had guest speakers come in to talk about the actual science in works such as "Frankenstein" and how reality differs or reflects the fiction.

  208. To which purpose? This is important! by joh · · Score: 1

    Either look at old SF (for historical reasons) or look very carefully at what you want to look at all. The thing is that basically most in-between SF is basically Fantasy. Everyone educated enough to do the numbers knows that the stars are just too far away. Most SF is lies and lies and lies. If you actually want to look into the future not only of science but of society you need to look very hard.

    One thing I would advise to read is Iain M. Banks. Read The Player of Games or Exsession. There are others, but there are a lot of books that aren't well written or even in any way interesting.

    Oh, and of course Lovecraft. The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath is a must-read, as many others of him.

  209. Be Careful by CherniyVolk · · Score: 1

    For a Novel, Cryptonomicon. For a short, or movie... Pirates of Silicon Valley.

    The problem with this sort of thing, and being part of a class curriculum, is the truth of history of technology and in particular IT and telecommunications will be highly controversial to many top figures in other industries. For example:

    Show a bunch of kids Pirates of Silicon Valley. They see that those guys (Steve is still running the show) had done some rather "hackery" things in the past. The Blue Boxes (stealing phone service), the stealing and deceiving to acquire a OS (software piracy). How are the kids going to handle the reality of the birth of Microsoft and Apple, along with the flyers in the hallway by the RIAA/MPAA telling them that downloading music is bad? I think the reason most people are sympathetic to the idea that a Blue Box is "stealing", is the fact that it's always been a for-pay service. Kids (And I personally) don't see the difference in turning on the radio or downloading a song. I have never paid for radio, and this fact is the only reason I refuse satellite radio or other like wise radio services.

    The IT industry, is historically bound and entrenched with the fact that someone did something they weren't supposed to do. To get a business edge (as in Microsoft), or to get a new product off the ground (Apple).

    Over the years, these very exploits served a real purpose to improve the quality of the services exploited (and they still do). From the earliest days of hackers making their own games on the mainframes in secret of management, to Blizzard and their massive market success. From bare copper telecommunications equipment and mechanical clickedy click switching to superfast OC-xxx backbones and wicked sick solid state switches. Exploits became "bugs" that needed to be fixed, while before they were "features" or "those nosey kids had no business doing that, it broke because they did something they weren't supposed to do..." *I remember Microsoft blaming end-users and hackers on their security woes, don't you?*

    Companies don't want people to use Blue Boxes. They don't want their admins to create some kind of game on their computers. They don't want to fix their problems, and blame inherent faults on those who discover and exploit them. They don't want kids in school, taught, shown or realizing that these very things drove the Technology Industry to the heights it currently sits.

    If your endeavor ever gains broad acceptance, I think it'll result in another thing similar to teaching evolution in schools.

    1. Re:Be Careful by roju · · Score: 1

      I love that book, but assigning Cryptonomicon in a high school class would be a jerk move. It's heavier than most of the students' laptops.

  210. Re:More forced reading? Ugh. by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

    It's an elective class, so the students involved are going to want to read some science fiction.

    For most people, learning to read and understand sci-fi is going to be a more valuable skill than learning to write it. Not only could it lead to a lifelong hobby, but it will help the students learn to analyze other written works.

    But more to the point, trying to teach things like worldbuilding and character development without reference to existing, well-implemented examples is like trying to teach a class on oil painting appreciation in the dark.

    Last point: some people seem to be "turned off" to reading before they enter kindergarten. That doesn't mean that they won't need to develop the skill.

    --

    You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  211. Jack Vance by magwm · · Score: 1

    I can't imagine I'm seeing so few refereces to Vance's worlds. Planet of Adventure is just fantastic, and most of his other stories are sublime exercises in the exploration of men's capabilities and particularities. the daemon princes are another fantastic creation. Yet the amount of _science_ fiction is always accurately measured agains the amount of social fiction.

    my 2cts

  212. Bulgakov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you have time, you might also introduce them to Russian authors who wrote science fiction under the soviet regime to showcase the lunacy going on around them. A good example of a short story would be "Fatal Eggs", or "Heart of a Dog" by Bulgakov. Both are available online for free at lib.ru

    http://www.lib.ru/BULGAKOW/dogheart_engl.txt
    http://www.lib.ru/BULGAKOW/eggs_engl.txt

    Heart of a Dog is much easier to read, get into and enjoy, and look at criticism of the soviet lifestyle. Fatal Eggs is a favorite of mine, but much harder for someone to slog through. It might open them up to reading other works like "Master and Margarita".

    Good luck with the class, and I really hope you use Heart of a Dog.

  213. Jack Vance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jack Vance

  214. Some recommendations... common and a few fringe. by Gribflex · · Score: 1

    Ender's game is a must -- but I would add as supplemental reading Ender's Shadow. It's a super interesting example of parrallelism in story telling, and provides another view into things.

    Of the available works of CS Lewis, I would of course recommend his Fantasy stuff, in particular the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. What I've only discovered very recently, though, is his Sci Fi works. While still as religiously driven as the Fantasy works, I think that it was a different take on it, and provided some good discussion points. Also, it's something that he's not associated with, so might be interesting to see the different angle.

    Dune is another amazing book, and I think it's uncommon in the Sci Fi genre as a 'world building' book. The sort of stuff that I more regularly associate with Dragonlance, Tolkien or Anne McCaffrey. While I really enjoyed the book (I read this in Grade 9 Literature) I think that it might be too long for the average class.

    I would definitely recommend a Harry Potter novel. It's most certainly fantasy, and has enough worth commenting on; although I might offer it as a suggestion for those who are intimidated by the larger books. As an alternative, the Tales of Beedle the Bard is something that is short, and has easy morals.

    Other than that, I think you need a heinlen, and an aasimov, and possibly a sagan (go short stories for all three if you can).

    It's required that you include tolkien, but I'd make it either the Hobbit, or just a smattering of selected readings. I think it can be assumed that people will be familiar with the world, if not from the books than from the movies.

    I'd also consider something by Margaret Atwood, to demonstrate that Science Fiction can be Science Fiction even if the author refuses to admit it.
    The Chrysalids is a commonly selected novel for lower grades, but be prepared for people to get really upset on a religious level. Also, the ending is brutal.

    Finally, the first book in the hitchikers guide is a great example of comedic sci-fi.

    As for the original post, I really don't think that Bradbury fits here. Sure, it will win you points with anyone who isn't a fan of the class, as it's considered classic lit. But, I don't think it's so remarkable that it would beat out the other stuff you mentioned. Orwell would be a good substitute though.

  215. Thought Probes by Ogre-On · · Score: 1

    If you pick up the (unfortunately out of print) philosophy texbook Thought Probes, you'll find several excellent short stories, together with good commentary on their philosophical implications. It includes "The Cold Equations," "Cloak of Anarchy," "The Star," and numerous other excellent, substantial, reasonably short texts and the commentaries are thought provoking for the teacher as well as students.

  216. Avoid Tolkien? by ajlisows · · Score: 1

    I would recommend avoiding Tokien, at least the Hobbit/LoTR books. I'd imagine that this class is an elective. If a kid decides to take a Sci-Fi/Fantasy elective in school it is likely that they have at least a passing interest in those genres and LoTR seems to be the most common launch point for kids getting into Fantasy. Having the kids read and discuss books that they probably have already read, discussed, AND watched the movies probably isn't going to teach them much. Try to introduce them to some great pieces of Sci-Fi fantasy that the majority of them probably cannot quote line for line.

  217. Heinlein!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heinlein!!!

    Even if you just chose one of his Hugo winning books, at least they will get exposed. TMIAHM and SIASL are corner stones in any library. Starship Troopers is excellent - completely unlike the movie. "On the bounce!"

    Kim Stanley Robinson - Red Mars is good and more current.

    Action and social statements will keep kids attentive. Sex doesn't hurt either.

  218. A few... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The Gods Themselves" by Isaac Asimov
    "Triplanetary" by E. E. "Doc" Smith
    "9 Pinces In Amber" by Roger Zelazny
    "The Martian Missile" by David Grinnell
    "Slan" by A. E. van Vogt
    "At The Mountains Of Madness" by H. P. Lovecraft and/or
    "The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath" by H. P. Lovecraft
    "The Sheep Look Up" by John Brunner
    Any of the Mars or Venus books by Edgar Rice Burroughs
    "A Fire Upon The Deep" by Vernor Vinge
    "Cat's Cradle" by Kurt Vonnegut
    "A Wizard of Earthsea" by Ursula K. LeGuin
    Any of the Fafhrd and Gray Mouser books by Fritz Leiber

    crap, my pencil broke..

  219. Use some more obscure works. by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

    If you do LeGuin, don't do Earthsea.

    Do

    Left Hand of Darkness
    or
    The Lathe of Heaven

    Hienlein:

    Moon is a Harsh Mistress. (Tie into a Robotics or AI discussion with Dick and Azimoz, or even Nueromancer)

    Ian M. Banks: Consider Phlebas or Use of Weapons

    Charles Stross: Singularity Sky or Iron Sunrise.

    Stan Nicholas: Orcs

    Stanislaw Lem: The Cyberiad

    I would love to include Alastair Reynolds, but he is too confusing for most people.

    --
    Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
  220. Style vs content by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    There are a lot of great stories, but if you are learning literature matters maybe more how it is written than what is there. There are some authors specially good on short tales (i.e. Brown and Dick), others that shine in big books (Stephenson), some stories that are great in the middle ground (Bicentennial Man?). Also there are the topics taken that could have interest per se (Babel 17 was great science fiction about language itself, or Mimsy were the Borogoves about learning).

  221. modern is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd recommend some gibsonian cyberpunk theres a great collection of short stories called Burning chrome (be warned gibson is known to throw in drugs, sex and cursing as well as alcohol so if your school doesn't tolerate such things don't use them) then there is cory doctorow's work (same warning but waay less) little brother is more speculative fiction then real "sci-fi" but it appeals to high schoolers and its e-version is open source and he makes use of a free education copy program so you should be able to get hard copies free or cheap. it also raises privacy and ethics questions which make great class discussion and in general don't just do classics when i see schools do such classes they forget that there are perfectly good new sci-fi books that appeal to modern issues and immerse the reader in a more contemporary idea as to what the future may be like.

  222. PDK missing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you don't include Philip K. Dick, I'll have you retired. Man in the High Castle, please, and he's written a swath of worthy short stories.

  223. 5 that seem to be consistently though-provoking... by EricTheGreen · · Score: 1

    Dune
    Solaris
    The Lathe of Heaven
    A Canticle for Leibowitz
    The Difference Engine

    I'm sure all of these pop up in someone else's comments somewhere in this thread; if so, just add my vote to them.

    Good luck...

  224. Stories that touched me -- by Omeganon · · Score: 1

    Flowers For Algernon - Daniel Keyes (Short Story)
    Blood Music - Greg Bear (Short Story).

    Both of the above deal with potential ramifications of human enhancement through medical or mechanical means. Both show the promise of the technologies as well as the potential ramifications (transience or transformation).

    20,000 Leagues Under The Sea - Jules Verne
    Journey To The Center of The Earth - Jules Verne
    A Wrinkle in Time - Madeleine L'Engle (though now that I look back at it some of it's Religious themes might be considered inappropriate for school)

    Stories of exploration and wonder.

    Startide Rising - David Brin
    Watchers - Dean Koontz

    Stories of the challenges and rewards of working with familiar animals (dolphins, chimpanzees and dogs) who have been given intelligence on par with humans.

    --
    Omeganon
    1. Re:Stories that touched me -- by Omeganon · · Score: 1

      Upvotes for --
          Rendezvous With Rama
          War of the Worlds
          The Cold Equations
          I, Robot - Asimov long story
          NightFall - Asimov short story
          Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit - I still have my 1970's paperbacks.

      --
      Omeganon
  225. When I was in high school by emeiji · · Score: 1

    we read a few sci-fi titles along with the Shakespeare and the usual lit picks -- Flowers for Algernon, The Chrysalids, The Handmaid's Tale, 1984, Fahrenheit 451. It was in high school that I first fell in love with science fiction, and I owe it entirely to the enthusiasm of my grade 9 English teacher. Thanks, Mr. V.

  226. Over-analysis by Vrallis · · Score: 1

    One of the issues I've always had with literature studies (or any study of forms of art) is the over-analysis done by some people. People study literature and other works of art looking for references to historical events. While everything in the creator's past can certainly influence their work, whether consciously or subconsciously, trying to analyze this as being a relevant relationship is pointless.

    If I was going to do something like this, one thing I'd do would be to look at Sci-Fi works over the last hundred years and look not at their exact thoughts on future technology but on future circumstances and problems. Did the trend of a global world war in the future become more common after WWII? More so than after WWI or Vietnam? How have views on alien hostility versus alien benevolence change over time? Futures run by corporations versus futures run by dictatorships/monarchies versus futures run by democratic governments? Obviously the homeland of the author would impact these as well.

    (Personally I'd just as soon NOT analyze things like this. I don't feel these things are a particularly relevant course of study, but if you're going to study it anyway, they are some ideas.)

    1. Re:Over-analysis by Vrallis · · Score: 1

      Just to note, yes, I contradicted myself, and I know I did as I wrote it--sort of. My point would be more that I'm annoyed at people looking at *historical* events for associations. Current events are pretty relevant to the works. Some event from a hundred years ago (say, slavery) are more often not.

    2. Re:Over-analysis by awol · · Score: 1

      Except when the author takes a stroke of genius to avoid the technobable issues, a la "Dune", where Herbert, writing in the late 60s avoids the problem of where computers would be in 10,000 years by having them "banned" and deals with FTL travel by making it a monopoly supplied service. Similar genius with Nukes and "friggin' lasers". My point is that the "Lit" analysis of these techniques is thoroughly worth doing since it can help to make timeless future worlds and allow the student to understand what works and what doesn't.

      Similary I find the absurd scope of something like Greg Bear's "Moving Mars" or "Forge of God/Anvil of Stars" to be equally as disarming because the scope of the tech is so bizarre that it is about the surrounding story rather than whether the tech might actually work.

      --
      "The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."
  227. Love for Donaldson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You simply have to include some Stephen R. Donaldson in there. There is no author writing today (in ANY genre) with a better command of the English language. His books may not be as popular as some others, but no one writes better (at least by his later works). His short stories are top notch, but the real gem is The Real Story. Not only is masterfully written, but his analysis of how and why he wrote it in the epilogue is invaluable. Of course, if this is public school I'm sure you'd be burned in a public fire for suggesting it as it's got a ton of mature content. If nothing else, go over the epilogue and give them something 'safer' of his to read.

  228. The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you haven't seen it get it.. Outstanding SF reference for the time period prior to when it was published and entertaining reading in its own right as well.

  229. Maybe I'm underestimating highschoolers ... by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

    Possible areas of interest will be topics of the environment, energy conservation, war, social issues, and others.

    When I was in high school, I couldn't grasp that kind of stuff. It took some years of autonomy, bureaucracy, voting, and workplace interaction before I could get a personal sense of these issues -- e.g., maintaining your household, waiting on hold to straighten out a billing error, workplace politics. Much good science fiction describes grand visions of the items at the scale you're referring to, but do your highschoolers have the autonomy and responsibility to extrapolate their own personal experience to social, industrial, political, military goings-on at the city, state, national, planetary, galactic scale?

    In my uninformed opinion, I'd go with

    • stories that describe the interactions of individuals or smaller groups of people set on a smaller stage
    • The Nebula awards list Andre Norton award for best Young Adult Sci-Fi and Locus's own Young Adult list
    • short stories (Arena by Frederic Brown comes to mind, but I read it pre-highschool) that can't lay out a huge, textured world and society in a short format but nevertheless get a good story with strong science fiction or fantasy elements across.

    I'd then try to gauge their reactions and opinions and whether/how they can understand or identify emotionally or intellectually with the stories and characters. You can always work your way up to the bigger issues should some subset of your students show interest or aptitude in understanding them.

    One counterpoint to this is that science fiction explicitly provides a sense of scale for these things and lays out these larger issues for detailed examination. As such, it may serve your students if they (and you) are exposed to the concepts now and it can later inform their future experience when they're more directly confronted with these ideas.

  230. The real classics by Animats · · Score: 1

    Some less-known classics:

    • "Edison's Conquest of Mars" - arguably the first space opera. Disintegrators, spaceships, space suits - all the usual stuff, but for the first time. Not a great read, but important historically.
    • "Metropolis" - the original silent, un-colorized version.
    • "The Shockwave Rider", by Norman Spinrad - way, way ahead of its time on "cyberspace".
    • The "Collier's Space Program". In the 1950s, Collier's Magazine had a series of issues proposing a space program, with beautiful illustrations. Von Braun was the technical consultant. Disney made documentaries about it. That built public support for the creation of NASA.
  231. The Machine Stops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most people have focused on full-length or somewhat shorter novels. The choices people have suggested are great, but you're going to have to be choosy with the time that you have (Tolkien is a nice thought, but The Lord of the Rings is pretty much out of the question unless you want to do nothing else!). Shorter is better in some ways because it would let you get more variety. I'm rather fond of LeGuin's Earthsea books and Clarke's Against the Fall of Night because they are short, to the point, and relatively simple.

    But for truly short stories: The Machine Stops by Forster. It's antiquated in some ways, historically prescient in others (I think of the remote, multi-person conversations that enthrall one of the characters as rather like the chat rooms of today). Anyway, it's enough to start a good conversation either from the main point of the story or about the historical quirks contained in it. There are even some nifty tie-ins with a recent movie: WALL-E. It's almost like an updated version in some ways.

    I think Forster's story is also out of copyright and therefore there is no issue copying it for the class for free.

  232. The first sci-fi story... by gsarig · · Score: 1

    You could also include some of Poe's works (didn't see him in your original list), as well as "True Story" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_History), which is perhaps the first sci-fi story ever (2nd AD).

  233. I haven't read the other 300ish comments by Swift2568 · · Score: 1

    I gotta suggest that the original I Robot is divided into several complete and easy to read stories, perfect for a 1 week unit. If you are going to connect the movie to the book, treat the movie as it's own work. I'm a huge Gibson fan, so I've gotta push Neuromancer to the top of the cyberpunk list. Also a great one for comparing the technology of today with the technology sci-fi authors like Gibson were dreaming of. For Tolkien, Lord of the Rings is a little long and heavy. It'd be easier to get them to read certain portions of The Hobbit. I'd use the first few chapters, then skip to the end right before the dragon. I'd also stress the history of The Hobbit: these were the bedtime stories of Tolkien's children. I wouldn't bother with Dragonlance. Your not introducing them to Dungeons and Dragons. Dragonlance is good easy reading, but it had a purpose: to sell a game. It was all based off the fantasies that Tolkien invented so teach Tolkien. And then I gotta throw in my support for Hitchhikers guide. It's a fun read, and a very 'outside the box' thinking. This is another one where you can use just one chapter and accomplish the goal. All of these are fun reads, which I think is important when your dealing with high school students. These kids know sci-fi in the form of video games, like Halo and World of Warcraft. Their ears are open, but they bore easily. Things like Dune and Foundation will be lost on them.

  234. Re:Too Much $Fav_Author by sconeu · · Score: 1

    Lin Carter's Tolkien: A Look Behind the Lord of the Rings has an excellent couple of chapters tracing the history of Heroic Fantasy from Roland through LoTR.

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  235. Isaac Asimov, I Robot or Foundation Trilogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I Robot is thought provoking, and a great introduction to logic. Asking students to read the entire foundation trilogy may be asking too much. I recommend these titles because everyone should know the 3 rules robots are to follow, and because Hari Seldon's formula for predicting the future motivated me to become the economist I am today.

  236. Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars series? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Possible areas of interest will be topics of the environment, energy conservation, war, social issues, and others."

    I don't think there's a better way to describe Red Mars, Green Mars, and Blue Mars. Their science is accessable and their fiction is plausible within the context of the book. I don't remember any parts that required excessive suspension of disbelief. The only thing is that they might be a bit dry in parts, especially Blue Mars.

    1. Re:Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars series? by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      I endorse this comment (espcially the bit about Blue Mars getting a bit dry - despite the story line being about water ;P). I would suggest just doing Red Mars in class and letting them konw there are two other books to follow.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    2. Re:Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars series? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      KSR's biggest achievement is making readers fall in love with places with his characters. I *so* wanted to go to Mars after reading Red Mars - going to have to settle for trying to make it to Antartica!

  237. Politics and contemporaneous fiction by mollog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But just to make sure everyone understands it will be politicized the last sentence of the /. summary is the tell:

    You and I may have strong feelings about politics, but high school students will be indifferent and oblivious. How much danger does one high school class represent? Exposing students to readings will be a very ineffective way of 'political indoctrination'. Get a grip. Effective 'indoctrination' requires a real life figure, such as Rush Limbaugh, or Glenn Beck.

    If I were selecting a syllabus for the class, I'd go for variety and then compare and contrast the works. Understanding certain works of science fiction requires some understanding of the mood of the times.

    I am personally fascinated with the post-WWII era and the existentialism that the GI's were bringing home from the war. Authoritarianism was a prevailing cultural theme from the war right on through to the 60's, contrasted by the counter-cultural existentialism and the 'beats'.

    L. Ron Hubbard would be an example of the Authoritarian type, with his tendency to reinvent words to form a group-speak, bending meaning. Very 1984. 'Typewriter in the Sky' is typical of Hubbard's pseudo-psychological style.

    Aldous Huxley's 1945 The Perennial Philosophy would be a good counterpoint.

    --
    Best regards.
    1. Re:Politics and contemporaneous fiction by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      You and I may have strong feelings about politics, but high school students will be indifferent and oblivious.

      I read Starship Troopers when I was in grade 10, and I sure as hell wasn't indifferent and oblivious. Initially, I was disgusted with the idea of voting requiring government service. It didn't seem fair in the least. By the end, though, I'd pretty much pulled a 180 (or at least a 150). It was an eye opener - a way of thinking which I'd never considered before. The idea of responsibility or civic duty may not have been clear to me immediately, but that book planted the seeds which slowly germinated over the next few years. It lead, in part, to my decision to join the military.

  238. Ende's The Neverending Story by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 1

    The movies are awful, the book is beautiful.

    --
    .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
  239. Must Include Haldeman's "The Forever War" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think that if he were more well known, given today's political climate this book would be held up side be side with Orwell's 1984. Putting relativity aside isn't in the nature of humanity to always be at war. Do you think there will ever be peace between the Middle East and the West, will the War on terror ever end???? This book uses Einstein's theories to draw out a fundamental truth about humanity, plus it is very short so it might be a good intro book.

  240. In my high school sci-fi class by bashibazouk · · Score: 1

    Back in 1982 or 1983, the reading list was:

    Dune
    Stand on Zanzibar
    Stranger in a strange land
    Siren's of Titan
    Left hand of Darkness

    Today I would swap out Stand on Zanzibar for something cyberpunk and probably Siren's of Titan for something more modern. Dune and Stranger in a strange land have aged better and are more classic IMO. I was never that great of a fan of Left hand of Darkness...

  241. Some suggestions by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

    Asimov - Nightfall. One of his best short stories.

    Harlan Ellison - Repent Harlequin said the tick tock man

    Two classics with very different styles.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  242. Suggestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For a specific title, I recommend Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress".

  243. Asimov, no question. by SocialEngineer · · Score: 1

    I can't stress Isaac Asimov enough. He's got a broad range of material, from the depth of the Foundation Series, to his short stories ("I, Robot", not to be confused with the movie) which are approachable to a wide audience. I was introduced to Asimov in High School, and am still an avid (re)reader of his works.

    --
    "Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson
  244. Two MUST-HAVE Classics.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester
    2) Brainwave - Poul Anderson

  245. Need more than good stories to qualify for a class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd say many suggestions pale compared to the works of one of
    the most prolific accomplished Sci-Fi writers around, Niven.

    Besides the quality of the stories, especially short stories
    (can't have a class entirely of giant novels), a few thoughts...

    1. A lot of sociopolitical themes, like the morality of unrestricted
    organ transplantation, where even repeat traffic offenders are
    chopped up for spare parts. Or product liability laws producing aircars so
    safe if they're eaten by giant monsters they don't include shaving kits
    because rescued castaways should look like castaways months later when they're
    rescued. Or multiple brands of pacifism, one that assumes all advanced aliens
    will also be pacifists, and (bipolar?) one that only applies to itself
    and assumes all aliens are a mortal danger.

    And that's just 'known space' universe. The 'Motie' universe drew
    criticism for making an imperial government, they even later wrote
    that they weren't making a political statement against democracy.
    Also interesting that the 30th century storyline could bear an
    uncanny resemblance to imperial Britain and sailing ships of the 1500's.

    2. Not only collaboration with multiple coauthors, but also allowing
    others to write stories in the same 'universe' of known-space. Pretty
    uncommon for books.

    3. Goes to considerable lengths to think through the implications and
    consequences of the technology. Not just the stuff from #1, but also
    things like the problems with lightspeed delay between different
    places, what if colonization ships arrive someplace that's not as habitable
    as the people think, What if most life in the universe has a common genetic
    origin, that means different forms of life would be more likely to be able to
    eat each other, lastly the problems writing stories and avoiding pitfalls from
    the various forms of technology introduced implying no longer any danger or
    any plot to stories. (As opposed to startrek-esque where holodeck safety
    protocols fail every time they needed a new story there)

    4. Although interesting the way Niven makes earlier statements
    turn out to be self-serving deceptions by the characters that made
    them (in other words, what the reader learns is not necessarily true,
    a very interesting adaptation) also interesting that when fanbase goes
    so far as to rebut the science behind things in the story, he adds detail
    to later story to resolve the problem, most notably the
    'Ringworld is unstable' issue.

  246. Fantasy Suggestions by Urlich · · Score: 1

    Svaha by Charles de Lint if you can find it. You can explore the environment and treatment of Native Americans with this one. Jordan, Eddings, and Tolkien may be a bit too lengthy for a course. Behold the Man by Michael Moorcock might be science fiction and might upset some of the Christians. Some of Moorcock's eternal champion books are short and could be used to discuss balance between order and chaos as opposed to good versus evil. George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire is long, but I feel is better written than Eddings or Jordan.

  247. RE: What Belongs In a High School Sci-Fi/Fantasy L by automag · · Score: 1

    "What Belongs In a High School Sci-Fi/Fantasy Lit Class?" That's easy... Nerds and Geeks. :-P

    --
    ---As my daddy used to tell me: "You gotta be smart before you can be a smartass."
  248. never mind the drek. pick some literary titles by longtailedhermit · · Score: 1

    forget the drek like jordan and all the other lotr knockoff writers spew. Your syllabus should include some one from among the earliest classics. i recommend 'frankenstein.' deals with social technological issues. heinlein's stranger in a strange land is a good classic too. of all his 1000 or so books he wrote that i read, this was the only 1 worth reading. maybe throw in kindred by octavia butler. 1 of the few african american feminist scifi authors. explores slavery, racism, etc. you will need a good cyberpunk title too. i suggest sting by gibson.

    1. Re:never mind the drek. pick some literary titles by longtailedhermit · · Score: 1

      david brunner's "the sheep look up" is good too. written in the 1970s, it was prophetic and applies to current times. 'prezzy' = 'w', birth defects - autism spike in the news today, ecological disastesr

    2. Re:never mind the drek. pick some literary titles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh go fuck yourself. you people who want to blame one man for this nations gluttony, neglect and shortsightedness just astound me. you're part of the problem.

  249. Feed - Pretty good book by defyg3 · · Score: 1

    I just read this and its geared towards High School crowd. Its about how technology rules our lives and these people hook up via the "Feed" ala Matrix. Check it out.

  250. _100 Great Science Fiction Short-Short Stories_ by mengel · · Score: 1
    Start with One Hundred Great Science Fiction Short-Short Stories, edited by Issac Asimov, it has stories by nearly all of the greats, but they're each only a few pages.

    Then you need a sampling of the classics: Niven (Ringworld), Simak (Time is the Simpest Thing), Harrison (The Stainless Steel Rat), Brunner (The Shockwave Rider), Stephenson (Snow Crash), Zelazny (Roadmarks) Bradbury (Farenhieght 451, Martian Cronicles)...

    Okay, maybe that's getting to be too much for one class.

    --
    - "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'
  251. Re:Too Much $Fav_Author by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 1

    I think you're on to something about discussing the various genres. I would also add Turtledove and Altnerate History to the SciFi lexicon. I read an essay by Bradbury in which he talked about the defining component about SciFi being answering the question, "What if... ?" I think understanding SciFi's history is as important as discussing the stories.

    --
    If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
  252. Start in Classic Fantasy, work your way to modern. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd say start with some of the Classic Fantasy. Iliad and the Odyssey, perhaps parts of the Epic of Gilgamesh. Depending on how it is meant to be taught, the history of fantasy and science fiction would also be interesting.

    Where do the concepts of magic, werewolves, elves, and the like come from? How are they depicted and where do they develop? Relate it to the agricultural revolution where agriculture developed independently in different, remote locations. If there is a similar phenomenon in old fantasy literature, what does it suggest? There are a lot of ways you could take the class, perhaps even taking a look at different takes on classic stories like the Arthurian tales.

  253. Tempted to make an account for this one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Charles Stross -- Check out his collections of short stories, there's some good ones in there. As for full novels, Halting State.
    Neil Gaiman -- Yeah, he's known for certain things...but check the Hugo shortlist for the last few years. Just search for Hugo Award on Wikipedia.
    Harlan Ellison -- Also gets short listed quite often, very good stories...may be easier for high school students to get into.

  254. some ideas by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 1

    C M Kornbluth esp space merchants and syndic, and marching morons - that will give em food for thought
    W Tenn
    U K Leguin
    Mack Reynolds (yeah, i know its cheesy - but fun)
    Alexie Panshin
    james blish (cities in flight)
    there is a series of novels that started with "deathworld" (better then it sounds)
    the novels about Retief
    any list without S Delaney is absurd (einstein intersection, babel 17 - his earlyh work is SF)
    walter millers a canticle for leibowitz
    philip K dick (galactic pothealer)
    first and last men , stapelton

    i always thought heinlein was over rated, and his later stuff absurd;
    bertram chandler
    john brunner (stand on zanzibar, no blade of grass (can't resist - also the sheep look up)
    jack vance
    clifford simak

    all of the above should be considered, although Kornbluth is areally sharp

  255. Year's Best / Gardner Dozois by GospelHead821 · · Score: 1

    Any of the "Year's Best" collections, edited by Gardner Dozois are really good. In my experience, the stories selected for that collection are not just good science fiction, but they reinforce lessons from a "regular" English class about good writing. One of the dangers of the genre is a tolerance for below-average writing. One story that I first read in one of those collections that I particularly enjoyed was "A Dry, Quiet War," by Tony Daniel.

    Another poster recommended the saga of Pliocene Exile, by Julian May. It's really excellent, but you're committing to 4 or more books if you do that. I don't think, for example, that The Many Colored Land (first in the series) stands up on its own. Unfortunately, this is true of a lot of genre fiction. I'm always on the lookout for singleton volumes of science fiction and fantasy. Stranger in a Strange Land probably qualifies, but it's long and heavy enough to merit the study of an entire semester by itself.

    If I had to throw down a quick and dirty list, I'd say go with two or three of these five novels: Ender's Game, A Wrinkle in Time, The Hobbit, The Time Machine, and Neverwhere; and then add a selection of short stories.

    --
    Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
    Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
  256. My suggestions - Henderson, Sturgeon, Clement, ... by dgtangman · · Score: 1

    My introduction to science fiction was reading Zenna Henderson's "Ararat" in a 9th grade (I think - it's been a really long time since then) American literature class, and I think it stands up fairly well. I like the idea of one of E.E. Smith's novels, for contrast, and I would look for something by Ted Sturgeon. Hal Clement would be a good source of stories with engaging non-human characters, and it might be interesting to compare and contrast his aliens with those of James White in his Hospital Station stories and those of Niven and Pournelle.

  257. What's important is the reading by cppmonkey · · Score: 1

    I want to plug Neal Stephenson's Zodiac, Diamond Age and Snow Crash, Asimov's Foundation, Cory Doctrow's Little Brother and Anda's Game but I'll curb my pitch. I think rather than just titles you need to get them reading and keep them reading the rest will happen with just a few well timed questions. Choose a few core books from the list on this page and give them the rest of the list as choices for books to read unguided. Make sure they get a mix of novels and short stories (hint my senior level high school history class involved reading at least one short story a week multiple documents and about six novels in the course of the year). You also want to get them to compare science fiction to non fiction. Have them read Thomas Paine and then reread one of the libertarian authors. Finally remember to have fun with it. Science fiction is as much about enjoying what you read as it is politics, envisioning the future man's place in the universe etc.

  258. Re:Robert Heinlein! NOT! by cptdondo · · Score: 1

    But everyone who's interested will have already read him.....

    I'd start with the Jules Verne type of stories; early hard science fantasy.

    Then, in perhaps in response to the economic and political situation of the 30s and the 40s the pulps. The "Aliens came and abducted my daughter" stories. The monster bodice rippers.

    And then tie it back to the post was tech boom, the cold reasoned (and boring) authors like Arthur C. Clarke. Then the heady 70s with its "do anything" culture that spawned the likes of Niven.

    The womens lib movement that brought in lots of women. The subsequent change from male-centric fiction to female protagonists. Books from Janet Kagan or other female authors.

    And now to the current flock of writers (none of whom I find particularly exciting).

    Anyway, tie the development of the whoel genre to the real world.

  259. US history angle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pulp fiction with heroic fantasy. Should be part of it. doc savage, conan, etc. All really popular back in the day and still just as good, by crom! And if you disagree, I'll start this eerie high pitched trilling sound then pluck your arms from their sockets!

  260. Day of the Triffids and Monkey Planet by Frobisher · · Score: 1

    John Wyndham's "Day of the Triffids" is rooted enough in reality not to alienate non-sci-fi readers, and is a very interesting take on the collapse of society after a catastrophe. I'd also suggest Pierre Boulle's original "Monkey Planet", different enough from the Apes movies to make it almost a completely different story. Good stuff.

    1. Re:Day of the Triffids and Monkey Planet by blackpig · · Score: 1

      I second 'Day of the Triffids' That, along with Fred Hoyle's 'The Black Cloud', was part of the high school (grade 9 or 10) English curriculum in the middle '70's and influenced my reading habits ever since.

    2. Re:Day of the Triffids and Monkey Planet by blackpig · · Score: 1

      ...that was ine New South Wales, Australia BTW

  261. Stranger in a Strange Land by Heinlein by ZuchinniOne · · Score: 1

    This book is perfect for your course, especially given the way that it approaches politics and takes a view of humanity from the perspective of an outsider.

    I'd also recommend Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card for the great way that it tackles socio-political issues.

  262. Lots of ways you could go with this one. by mhollis · · Score: 1

    Firstly, I read Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 in my English Lit class in my Sophomore year in High School. So its inclusion may well be unneeded, assuming the curriculum is fairly decent in your school district. Problem is, you are going to need a number of short stories if you plan to do anything in any depth.

    I would love to suggest Ursula LeGuin's The Dispossessed, which uses a great artifice to tell the story, and that's done all throughout the book until the story lines collide wonderfully at the end. Dickens did that in A Tale of Two Cities, which also ought to be in your High School English Lit class. Might be a good thing to contrast the storytelling styles of Dickens and LeGuin.

    If you do such a class, you need to start at the beginning and the first internationally recognized science fiction novel was Mary Shelly's Frankenstein, a story that your class will be familiar with but will not have read. Nobody remembers the beginning or the ending.

    You should choose one or two "Space Opera" short stories of the Pulp era, because they're quick reads and they're great examples of that genre. You ought to do a story by HP Lovecraft because those are wonderfully crafted. You should include some fantasy and I would mention that many Sci Fi writers today say that they make more money with this part of the genre.

    I did write a paper on a University level where my proposal was one where science fiction (at least the future world variety) placed today's man in "tomorrow's setting," as we were able to identify that at the time. So if the class starts to gripe about this futuristic pap, you should have them identify what the overall feelings of the characters are and how they reflect the actual time of publication. Certainly Asimov's Foundation series (not recommended for a class, as it's way too much reading) and the character's love for portable atomic energy devices and lack of fear of radiation is a pretty good indication of their 1950s and 1960s publication dates.

    Were I tasked with this, I'd head to the beach and start up some really fun summertime reading. It was in a class that you plan to teach that I read (on purpose) everything Frank Herbert wrote, then sent a letter (through the publisher) to Mr. Herbert. He wrote me back about 3 months after the term ended. My questions were not about Dune but about a number of his other novels.

    --
    Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
  263. dpg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    simple. choose books (past and current) that have won literary awards -- and also ensure that this cirriculum helps to teach concepts and ideas the student will see in their AP and SAT tests ...

    By narrowing down the books to only those that have won awards you thin the rebuttal of parents that will say content is innapropriate and you'll also thin out the possabilities on all the sci-fi / fantasy books that are available on the shelf in any bookstore.

    even if you yourself enjoy the more exotic or deeper meaning themes found in less popular or acclaimed authors -- you have a job to keep and also mandated skills to learn (assuming this is a public school setting) ...

  264. Find literature that matters to THEM first by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

    As a trained teaching guy: If I were to design a course with the objectives to "survey the histories of these genres and recognize how world events have been reflected onto other worlds," I would focus on the science fiction that uses contemporary topics and extrapolates current technologies.

    Azimov? Clarke? Awesome, yes. Iconic, surely. But rockets, FTL, time travel, aliens ... all over-worked tropes. Kids have seen it and done it, beat the boss, posted the walkthrough on youtube. It's not sci-fi. It's the future of the archaic past.

    Focus more on the future of the present.

    Here's a story I'd love to include for a younger audience: Boyfriend, by Madeline Ashby. Kids subscribe to virtual boy- and girl-friend AI apps on their portable computers, and the AIs begin to rethink the meaning of their service to humanity. Listen to it on Escape Pod. Now *that* is a rich topic for today's generation of cell-phone slinging, hyper-connected, emotionally stuntable youth.

  265. M.A. Foster by Lord+Zerrr · · Score: 1

    I would recommend "The Book of The Ler".

    --
    "If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." -Albert Einstein
    Karma? There's a serial modder out there.
  266. High school level literature by JoeGee · · Score: 1

    Listed somewhat chronologically: Beowulf, Shelley's "Frankenstein", Verne "20,000 Leagues Under the Seas", Wells "War of the Worlds", Bradbury "Fahrenheit 451", Asimov "I Robot", Ellison "I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream", Clarke "Childhood's End", and Card's "Ender's Game".

    --

    Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
  267. Little Brother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Might be a little short and sweet for a high school crowd looking for deeper meaning - but Little Brother by Corey Doctrow is an awesome quick read on the impact of technology on personal freedoms. I think the audience is more of a Jr. High civics class versus your high school fantasy type demographic though.

  268. New LeGuin (Gifts, Voices, Powers) by Esteanil · · Score: 1

    LeGuin isn't just classics - or, rather, some of her classics are almost brand new.

    When I bought Voices, which was my first one, I wasn't aware of the teen theme here. Voices is my absolute favorite of the three, which are all quite stunning feats of literature by an author who seems to be growing only stronger as she keeps writing.

    Voices, especially, matters to me. It speaks of growing up in a city where books are banned, where the occupying forces worship fire and the spoken word. It speaks of growing up in a culture under occupation quite well, and it speaks of the gift of words possibly better than anything else I've read. All three books are highly recommended, but given the theme of the class, I'd definitively go with Voices, and let the interested ones pick up the other two on their own.

    Oh, and if you're adult, read them anyhow. I expect half the people here are reading this thread looking for book recommendations ;-)

    I'd also recommend some Dan Simmons - probably Hyperion. It's the first book of his best series, it has a clear ancestry with Cantebury Tales etc, and it has influenced a LOT of current SF.

    And, of course, if you're not including a lot of Heinlein, you're missing half the history of modern SF right there.
    Maybe watch Starship Troopers in class, and then read and contrast with the novel - should be a bit of an eye-opener ;-)

    --
    I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
    1. Re:New LeGuin (Gifts, Voices, Powers) by aslagle · · Score: 1

      I can remember in Junior (or was it Senior?) English, being shown a BBC adaptation of LeGuin's Lathe of Heaven. I'd long before discovered Science Fiction and Fantasy. At the time I was more into SciFi, as I hadn't run into any good fantasy since I'd read Tolkien. I'd never read any of LeGuin's works, and I can remember being blown away. Even then I knew the books were usually better than the movie/series, and I immediately went out and got all of her books I could find. I'm still trying to find a copy of that movie on DVD.

    2. Re:New LeGuin (Gifts, Voices, Powers) by aslagle · · Score: 1

      Oops, I just remembered, it was PBS, not the BBC.

  269. for all ability levels, add comic strips by adaviel · · Score: 1

    Much as I love Niven, James Hogan, Roger McBride Allen etc. etc., if you want to attract *all* ability levels, try some stuff they are already reading, like Marvel comics. "Iron Man" and Batman are basically Sci-Fi. There's also the whole Japanese anime genre. Not really my thing, though the video "Howl's Moving Castle" was pretty cool (steampunk/anime, maybe). Some of the classics are a bit dated in style (Jules Verne, Asimov, even Heinlein) and are a bit hard to read for the modern generation. Stick to more recent works in the same style, even if they are acknowledged retreads. The Jupiter series by Hogan, Pournelle etc. is Heinlein's Space Cadet etc. rewritten for a new readership. http://www.webscription.net/p-956-the-jupiter-novels.aspx

  270. Forget Novels - go for shorts by JobyKSU · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'll agree that Ender's Game and the subsequent books are great, but for the purpose of a class you should look at Card's "Maps in a Mirror." It is an anthology of short stories that cover most of his writing career. The biggest benefit for this particular edition is that includes forwards for each story about what he was thinking, going through, and aiming for when he wrote the stories. This offers an awesome insight into what the author intended, and can be a great introduction to the desired analytic skills.

  271. My suggestions: by TrebleJunkie · · Score: 1

    Inherit the Stars, by James P. Hogan, is a _fantastic_ look at *science*-based science fiction. The novel tells the story of a bunch of scientists trying to unravel the mystery of a 50,000 year old human found on the moon.

    Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. Because, yes, it *is* a work of science fiction, but also a wonderful book with rich themes and an incredible philosophy behind it. And that we're basically living it these days doesn't hurt to make it seem more relevant.

    --

    Ed R.Zahurak

    You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.

    1. Re:My suggestions: by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged

      I went and got that book because I knew I agreed with her, and I heard it was very well written, and I was STILL bored to tears. Keep in mind that I'm an adult who typically goes through a book every week or two. Those kids won't make it past the first chapter.

      The real problem with Atlas Shrugged is that it's a 300 page novel which was drawn out into a 900 page paperweight. At a third of the actual size, it would have made for excellent reading.

  272. David Brin, Others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ender's Game and a few other Orson Card books. This is in the works for a movie.

    Old Man's War and other John Scalzi science fiction.

    Dune by Frank Herbert is an all time favorite.

    David Brin has some great speculative near future science fiction.

    The Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud was a good kids fantasy series. Similar target audience to Harry Potter, but more substance.

    Gene Wolfe and Guy Gavrial Kay have some great historical fiction.

    Ian Banks and George Martin are great, but the content may be too mature for what some parents think their kids should read.

    My high school curriculum included Animal Farm, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451 and a few others. Brave New World is great.

    This appears to be a pretty good list I found while checking the spelling on some of these:

    http://www2.ku.edu/~sfcenter/sflib.htm

  273. 451 & Algernon by srobert · · Score: 1

    Glad you mentioned those. They were both standards of literature class when I was in high school 30 years ago. Algernon is especially poignant to gifted students to help them understand their place in the world, and how they may find they have more in common with the intellectually handicapped than they do with normal people.

  274. AI passing the Turing test. Off Topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Does an AI that passes such a test have any rights?"

    Would religious fundamentalists claim the AI was the Devil incarnate if it didn't believe in a God? Would they try to "teach" it religion? Would that violate its rights? Would that be an assault on it? AI abuse?

    Would the AI try to teach the religious fundamentalists logic and rational thought?

  275. Founding Fathers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get to the founding fathers
    -Jules Vernes
    -Cyrano de Bergerac
    -Ray Bradburry
    -Edgar Allan Poe
    -Lovecraft
    -Borges
    -Celtic lore/Brother Grims

    And from there, define the various genres of SciFi/Fantasy and how they have evolved to today

    I think it is important to show how the original concepts and ideas have evolved and to be able to recognise in an author works what is fresh or only a remake of an old idea.

  276. Mervyn Peake (Titus Groan, Gormenghast) by Libro · · Score: 1, Informative

    These books, contemporary to Tolkien, are pretty classic dark fantasy.

  277. Coordinate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know this response is probably buried in the hundreds before me and will never be read, but the biggest suggestion I can give you is to look at what the other teachers are teaching. If you class is populated with kids in an advanced History class, read 1984. If the kids have a huge workload in English, don't give them Williams of Tolkien.
    When I was in high school all the advanced classes were pretty much the same group of kids. The teachers made an effort to know what was going on in each of the other classes to make a coordinated, comprehensive program. I know that without the luxury of a single group of kids going from class to class like I was that there's only so much you can do, but in as much as it is possible, I highly recommend it.

  278. Steanger in a strange land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    must have heinlein

  279. Great contemporary fantasy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are some awesome fantasy authors out there:

    Guy Gavriel Kay
    George R R Martin
    Steven Erikson
    Gregory Keyes
    R Scott Bakker (probably too rough for high school)
    Scott Lynch (first book only)
    David Gemmel

  280. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Star of the Guardians by Weis and Hickman

  281. My HS science Fiction Curriculm by JBoelke · · Score: 1

    Get Grokking the Future for story choices and Get from the Great Courses on Tape, the course on science fiction, which give a nice historical overview. I start with the difference between science fiction and other writing styles. I use short stories because they quickly teach a theme, and if a kid does not like the story, it will be over quickly. I start with Thinking Machines with 3 themes, Robot as God, Robot disobey, Robot kills. with the Story Answer. I then have several short stories about how the robots do he wrong things without human intervention, and there is a discussion of free will vs. Robot control. I introduce the 3 laws and we discuss how the previous stories would change if the 3 laws were built into the machines. We discussu how the 3 laws are impossible to make, or for the Robots to use. Would a 3 laws Robot let your mother remove a splinter from your finger. She might cut you and you might get an infection. We have war and read Starship Troopers. I have the students put the chapters into order and the first chapter is out of order. They read Hero (a short story version of the Forever War) and a short story version of Ender's game. We compare the heroes and what makes a hero. We do social control with Soylant Green, and compare it to A Happy Day in the Year (I don't remember but there is a moderate Sex alert), and Golden Acres and others. We do first contact with the Drake equasion and Fermin's paradox, we read the Road not taken, a game of Meyhen, A TNG star trek first contact story. And we watch to Serve Man. and see 2001, which can be use in the Robot Section. We discuss the social changes of what will happen. If you can show 2001 on school's theater big screen it is AMAZING. Some movie have to be shown on the widest screen possible. Please e-mail me and I will share with you my detailed lesson plans, with more stories, and the questions that go with the stories. Do not read Stranger in a Strange Land. You will get fired. Telling the students this will cause them to read said story.

  282. Good Read by Povno · · Score: 1

    Ender's Game

    --
    sudo apt-get lost
  283. Might as well teach them something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Might as well try and teach them something, most of the highschools I know are nothing more than babysitting institutions for teenagers.

    With that in mind

    A Scanner Darkly
    Small Gods
    A Canticle for Leobowitz
    Flow my Tears, the Policeman said
    Guards Guards!
    Brave New World

    If you want to be tough on them don't give them homework, make them write a short book report there in class.

  284. Re:Some More Names to Consider (List of Titles) by spaceWeepul · · Score: 1

    The Metamorphosis - Kafka. They should read something by him someday. This class is a good excuse. (short)

    1984 - Orwell. This has one of the best first pages in English literature. It brings up the subject of torture that has been in the news lately. (long)

    Nightfall - Asimov. This is shorter than I, Robot. (short)

    A Scanner Darkly - Dick. This has a wonderful anti-drug message. The writing style is bracingly weird. (medium)

    Flowers for Algernon - Keyes. This discusses themes of accomplishment, capacity, happiness and loss. (medium)

    Cat's Cradle - Vonnegut. This is sexier, shorter and more fun than Slaughterhouse 5. (medium)

    Brave New World - Huxley. (long)

    Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone - Rowling. This has scholastic themes and is regarded as well written. (long)

    Stranger in a Strange Land - Heinlein. This is thought provoking. (long)

    Neuromancer - Gibson. This is from the edgy part of the sci-fi genre. It has some racy scenes. (long)

    The Sword of Shannara - Brooks. This is a straightforward fantasy novel. (long)

    The Hobbit - Tolkien. More fantasy. (long)

    Lord Foul's Bane - Donaldson. This is wacky but it does focus on solipsist and humanist themes. (long)

    Battlefield Earth - Hubbard. It's a little long but reads fast. One presidential candidate said this was his favorite book. (really long)

    Anthem - Rand. This is a short one. (short)

    The Dispossessed - Le Guin. This examines socialism. (long)

    Neon Genesis Evangelion - Anno. This is manga and may be too expensive or sexy for the classroom. It covertly covers teen issues. (really long if you read them all)

    (The kids should've already read something by Bradbury. You don't need to read something else by him. I left out Dune because it strikes me as unoriginal and too long. I think Lovecraft's stuff is depressing. War of the Worlds by Wells is good but no longer relevant. Crichton, Ellison and Card are fun but I think you can live without them. I would only read one fantasy novel. I would pick Lord Foul's Bane because it would make for some hilarious classroom discussions. There is also http://fantasybedtimehour.com/ that analyzes Lord Foul's Bane in minute detail. Here's a list of the top sci-fi books: http://home.austarnet.com.au/petersykes/topscifi/lists_books_rank1.html)

  285. Everything was beautiful and nothing hurt... by Landshark17 · · Score: 1

    I never had much interest in science-fiction until I read Slaughterhouse Five. It grabbed me, shook me up, made me laugh, and wouldn't let me put it down. I went from cover to cover in one three-hour sitting. I'm hard pressed to think of any book I've read that comes close to how much it affected. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet (outside of a few references to Vonnegut in general).

    --
    This sig is false.
  286. Heinlein and Tolkein, Spider and Ray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had to read "Stranger in a Strange Land" in Psychology/Sociology class as a senior in High School (1977) and it has still stuck with me...Highly Recommended

    As well, I agree "the Hobbit" should be on the list!

    Isaac Asimovs Robots, Anne McAffreys Dragons, Andre Nortons Witches, all should find room here!

    Spider Robinson, too...for a more modern version of Rob Heinlein, (try Callahans Chronicles! or StarDancer)

  287. Frost and Fire, by Ray Bradbury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's my favourite sci-fi story. It's short, so you could cover it in 1-2 classes, and it's very interesting.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frost_and_Fire_%28short_story%29

    The wikipedia summary doesn't really do it justice. It's only about 40 pages, so you can read it in an evening.

  288. Sergey Lukyanenko's "Watch" series by P[B · · Score: 1

    Night Watch, Day Watch, Twilight Watch, Last Watch.
    A great, dark fantasy/scifi series that is very Russian and as such very different from most novels mentioned here.
    Not that I don't like Heinlein, Clarke or Asimov, but there's more to scifi than that...

  289. So many choices, so little time by sizzzzlerz · · Score: 1

    Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land is a good choice but I'd also consider either The Moon is a Harsh Mistress or Franham's Freehold instead.

    I'd also include Niven's Ringworld, Herbert's Dune, and either 2001 or Rendezvous with Rama from Clarke.

  290. Phillip K. Dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    - Its some of the first sci-fi (if not THE first)

    - Fantastic social commentary on controversial topics relevant to high-schoolers (drugs, sex, social/political structures, religion, existence to name a few)

    - Different: A lot of his books are not you're usual spaceships and aliens kind of sci-fi

    - Intelligent: Characters ask questions instead of accepting fantastical ideals (Star Wars = Two Party Conformity?)

    - Your students will respect you for respecting them. These books can definitely be classified as "adult," but we should all know by now that you cannot put age restrictions on art. And the book burners will definitely be at the next PTA meeting, pitchforks and torches in hand, but we should all know by now that they are a bunch of ignorant people hell-bent (heaven-bent?) on dooming our race to a perpetual Dark Age.

    Just make sure that you do not underestimate your students. They are not morons, and are very capable of incredibly deep and powerful thought. The whole "coming of age" time in life is when creativity, intelligence, and drive spike and flourish... probably because we're all trying to get laid, and if you don't got brawn...

    1. Re:Phillip K. Dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its some of the first sci-fi (if not THE first)

      Not to make fun but where the hell did this come from? This is a ludicrous claim.

  291. Re:Too Much $Fav_Author by droopycom · · Score: 1

    Have them read Beowulf.

    In the Old English version of course!

    Okay, I read Beowulf, translated, and frankly I dont know what the story is about. And frankly I only did it because I'm a geek...

    This is for high school students, and I would think Beowulf would be the best way to scare everybody away. Its way too hard... unless we are talking about the movie script...

    For a college level class, sure, but high school ? A mention about it sure (to show that fantasy is not a recent genra) but a mandatory read, no thank you.

  292. Dead Sci-Fi Fans Sociomorphic Entity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Goodness Gracious!
    What a (generally) stunted, superficial, vacuous, ... ignorant celeb-junkie bubble-headed matinee fodder watery-gruel ... list.

    Start at least at Verne, and all the European (mainly German and Russian) boy's adventure stuff. Shunt off into the golden years of pulp - but don' forget Europe. Ditto for the "Campbell years". Then the counter-cultural "renaissance" or "awakening" of the 60's and 70's. Both "soft" and "hard". And Europe. And "behind-the-curtain" stuff. Show who reflects which concerns, views, ideals and 'ideologies'. Who are the workhorses, the iconoclasts, the outcasts, the status-quo flag-wavers? How did they deal with the 'new things' that came along? Which stories reflect or best voice these views? Where are the turning-points? At what point do we begin to live inside yesterday's sci-fi?

    Forget LOTR. It is not Science Fiction. C.S. Lewis, on the other hand - "That Hideous Strength"... etc. And, for a few laughs, present them to the "Perry Rhodan" phenomenon. And then make them think hard about it.

    Show them where real Sci-Fi is hiding nowadays. In how many languages...

    Good luck!

  293. Heinlein, if you want parents to complain by XJHardware · · Score: 1

    If you want parents to complain about a Heinlein book include Farnham's Freehold in your curriculum. I'll be able to hear 'em scream from my house!

    --
    The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.
  294. Phillip K Dick by e3m4n · · Score: 1

    There hasn't been one Phillip K Dick book that I have not totally enjoyed.

    1. Re:Phillip K Dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, including VALIS? Yuk.

      Try "Deus Irae". That's pretty dire, and not because it's a collaboration with Zelazny. The rest of his stuff was great.

  295. Re:Fredric Brown by conureman · · Score: 1

    Ooh, good call. Solipsist comes to mind, a good way to kick off a discussion of the nature of reality. And of course Arena, I don't remember reading it but it's one of the great classic Star Trek episodes. Most of what I remember were the hard-drinking newsman stories but he did write some cool sci-fi and fantasy stuff. Always a good read though- I never could figure why so much of his stuff went out of print.

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  296. Dhalgren by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because Science Fiction needs more gay sex, and you need to read about it.

  297. Lord Dunsany by Spinalcold · · Score: 1

    Not many have read him, at least of the people I know and most people I know who read are big fans of fantasy and sci-fi. He was a very influential author, a favorite author of Neil Gaiman, David Eddings and H.P. Lovecraft, he had a paticular impact on Lovecraft. I would recommend his book The King of Elfland's Daughter. I would guess that most of the students wouldn't have read it before.

    1. Re:Lord Dunsany by Creepy · · Score: 1

      Lovecraft was split between Lord Dunsany (aka Edward John Moreton Drax Plunkett, Lord of Dunsany - always got a kick out of that name) and Poe - I can't quite remember the quote, but it was something like "there are my Dunsany pieces and my Poe pieces, but where are my Lovecraft pieces?"

      Ursula LeGuin, Robert E Howard, and Michael Moorcock were also fans of Dunsany from what I remember. I personally have only read a few like The Sword of Welleran, which I had in a book of short stories also containing Lovecraft and Tolkien shorts (and some weird ones like Kafka), but it was by far my favorite story in the book. There are several more on Project Gutenberg (I know I've also read "Time and the Gods," but none of the others ring any bells). Unfortunately, The King of Elfland's Daughter is not there, so possibly still copyrighted (or not copied yet - I don't know).

      Poe himself was a fan/critic of Nathaniel Hawthorne, a contemporary, particularly Twice Told Tales (a personal favorite of mine, as well). Can also be grabbed off of gutenberg, so it could be a cheap read. A particular favorite of mine is Dr Heidegger's Experiment. I've seen similarities in Hawthorne, Poe, and Lovecraft writings (and even Steven King, who is a Lovecraft fan, in some shorts), so its kind of interesting.

  298. Raymond E. Feist's Magician by dakameleon · · Score: 1

    Haven't seen this suggested elsewhere, but Raymond E. Feist's Magician is a great starter's fantasy book. It's steeped in a Tolkien-esque world and a D&D universe, but is more accessible to the average reader. It's reasonably weighty for use in study materials, but keeps action moving and is fairly tame on the sex side, probably rating no more than a PG-13, so appropriate for even middle school without too many parental objections.

    The material can be used to discuss reasons for war, racism, and even politics at a stretch. The latest edition has been published as two separate volumes in the US, meaning it can be split up and only the first studied if time does not permit, but the story is hardly complete in the first section and the thick of the action is in the second part. The writing isn't going to win Pulitzers (and given the first edition was in 1982, it's past time...), but as I said, it's extremely accessible.

    --
    Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    1. Re:Raymond E. Feist's Magician by feargal · · Score: 1

      Our state exams at age 15 had an essay option for a book of your own choosing, and I did that with Magician, mostly because I'd already read it a half dozen times by then. The text is very accessible, and there's plenty of themes to work with. As noted, the language is relatively simplistic, so as a literary piece of work it's nothing special, but it deals with many common fantasy themes. The length is probably the main negative point. Also of interest, and possibly more appealing to both sexes would be his Daughter of the Empire series, which runs more or less concurrently with Magician, but is set on the world of the agressors in Magician.

      --
      "A goldfish was his muse, eternally amused"
  299. no wonder President Obama wants a longer school yr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People are spending time in a sci-fi lit class. Wait until college to waste your time.

  300. Kurt Vonnegut by carstene · · Score: 1

    Cat's_Cradle is a great, easy to read, endlessly discussable sci-fi book by a master.

  301. Goodkind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Terry Goodkind is the best ever, and you can link it up with the objectivist movement with Rand, etc.

  302. Educational priorities? by Veritech_Ace · · Score: 1
    "Possible areas of interest will be topics of the environment, energy conservation, war, social issues, and others." Environment, energy conservation? It's been 20 years since I was in high school, so I'm pretty out of touch with the modern educational climate, but are these topics now the primary lens through which everything else is studied? If so, that's pretty weak.

    Adding to the excellent selections already offered:
    • "Alas, Babylon" by Pat Frank: yes, it's a bit dated, but offers a compelling view of life after a nuclear war, and covers interesting topics of societal breakdown, rediscovery of pre-modern techniques for survival, etc. I think it was pretty popular on high school reading lists during the Cold War.
    • "Inherit the Stars" by James Hogan: a fascinating portrayal of how the scientific method is applied to understand new discoveries, and a great page-turner to boot
    • "The Sword of Shannara" by Terry Brooks: infinitely more readable than the Lord of the Rings series from which it borrows heavily, this is an exemplary entry in the fantasy canon. Probably too long a read for a high school class, though.
  303. "Science Fiction for people that hate Science Fict by Knoman · · Score: 1

    Edited by Terry Carr (1966) Contains some of the best and most thought provoking short stories of the genre (IMHO) From the moral implications of scientific research (What kind of idiot would give a loaded gun to a retarded child?) to the dichotomy of God & Science. It is filled with truly inspired stories from some of the (then) best SciFi Authors ever. God I wish I still had my copy...

    --
    "It's an imperfect world,screws fall out..."
  304. Just a few other suggestions by rlk · · Score: 1

    Asimov, particularly the Foundation and early Robot series -- these are some of the most important works of early modern SF

    Harry Turtledove -- the master of alternate history. His works are very readable and very thought-provoking and may help students learn more about OTL as well.

  305. Not too "Literary", Please. by thf · · Score: 1

    Hi...
          Most of the replies to this question seem to come down on the "literature" side of SciFi/Fantasy. Don't neglect the "Sci" part, since it's crucial to the genre. And I don't mean the "it's gotta have spaceships" sort of science but stories like Heinlein's "And he built a crooked house" where a "science-y" sort of reading and considering by the reader plays a central role.
              Best of luck.
    Tom

  306. Brin & Varley by hudsucker · · Score: 1

    Several posts suggested David Brin's Startide Rising. That's a great book, but if you want to provoke discussion, I'd pick Glory Season.

    Also good would be anything by John Varley.

  307. Re:Unless you want students trying to fuck their m by Nakanai_de · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Had to reply to this. I agree with your assessment that Heinlein's novels are not the greatest (Although I thought "Time Enough for Love" had some interesting ideas), and I was a hardcore Heinlein fanboi for a while. But his short stories are amazing. "By His Bootstraps" is one of the coolest time travel stories ever. "The Man Who Sold the Moon" is brilliant. And "Life-line" and "Let There Be Light," his first two published stories, are really good descriptions of the conflict between transformative technologies and entrenched interests, which have arguably more relevance today than when they were first written (c.f. the automobile or music industries). Because the OP asked for ideas of short stories as well as novels, and you can't include novels by everyone, by all means, feature one or two of Heinlein's short stories. Because any sci-fi/fantasy class that "avoid[s] Heinlein" is like a Classical Music class that omits Beethoven.

    --

    Sono koro, bokura wa, sore ga sekai no shinjitsu da to shinjite ita.

  308. Ask University English Departments by Ritchie70 · · Score: 1

    I graduated from U of Illinois (Urbana) in 1990 having satisfied some of my humanities electives with literature of science fiction and literature of fantasy. It appears these courses, English 119 and English 120, still exist. They're hundred-level courses, so the difficulty should be OK for college-bound high school students.

    I found this reading list for English 119: http://www.amazon.com/ENGL-119-CWL-UIUC-Spring/lm/R2120TE9GGDDIM

    These aren't the books I remember having read for that course, but it was almost 20 years ago. Things change.

    I would recommend contacting the University of Illinois English department and getting their list, then reviewing it for suitability both in the context of high school in general and the nature of the community in which you live.

    (For example, if a conservative community, "Stranger in a Strange Land" or "Handmaiden's Tale" might not work out well for you.)

    There are probably similar courses at other universities, and most instructors would probably be willing to share their material.

    --
    The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
  309. Author & Other Suggestions by oDDmON+oUT · · Score: 1

    Harlan Ellison: Great stuff, all shorts, all with layers of meaning.
    Larry Niven: Hard SF, Known Space series, Gil the ARM, etc., fun.
    Ted Chiang: Interesting work, edgy, all over the map.

    Try anthologies: Dangerous Visions, Again Dangerous Visions (sure, they're dated in many respects but seminal stuff from the times), Nebula Awards Showcase, The Hugo Winners, whatever, as the goal here is exposure. By choosing a story or two out of a book, it leaves the student free to explore the other, unassigned works, at their leisure.

    --
    Some days it's just not worth
    chewing through my restraints.
    1. Re:Author & Other Suggestions by oDDmON+oUT · · Score: 1

      Hit the submit button too soon.

      Why shorts and anthologies, when others are suggesting novels?

      Because they are short.

      To the hyperconnected, short attention span theater that comprises the bulk of American youth, longer works as "assignments" or "course material" may turn them off to the genre before they ever connect.

      Hell, it's hard enough to get them to read bullet points on a PowerPoint, imagine making them wade through Tolkiens elf poems.

      --
      Some days it's just not worth
      chewing through my restraints.
  310. Jack London, naturalist by cenc · · Score: 1

    Don't forget the naturalist. There is more to sci-fi literature than just ray guns and space ships. Authors like Jack London and perhaps Twain where the writers that built the framework for modern science fiction and they get little credit for it. They exploited the same sense of adventure in the unknown / fear of technology that fascinates us today, in a time when there was likly more to be concerned about.

    I have taught some University courses using both. For instance, with London point out the dangers of life in Alaska against the dangers of life in Space. In the day, going to Alaska was as dangerous as going to the moon or mars. In many ways it was likly more dangerous. Same with all the ocean going books from say around 1900's and earlier. You could even go all the way back and punish the kids with Homer, if they get out of line.

  311. Re:TCOO by conureman · · Score: 1

    It may be fantasy, but it might not entertain the kids.

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  312. Terry Pratchett, winner and still champion by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mr. Pratchett's work is brilliant, insightful, and often as funny as Monty Python. Racism, war, discrimination, child-raising, gangs, drug addiction, and all the ills of the modern age are covered in ways that both entertain and educate.

    I wish the man would visit my neighborhood so I could buy him a hat.

    1. Re:Terry Pratchett, winner and still champion by chichilalescu · · Score: 1

      I fully subscribe.

      --
      new sig
    2. Re:Terry Pratchett, winner and still champion by Evtim · · Score: 1

      Absolutely!! Mister Pratchett has touched (more like dissected) every contemporary issue of our civilization and some of the not so contemporary ones (Small Gods anyone?)

      However, do not expect him to be included in any lit class. He is too inconvenient, too intelectual, too provocative, too damn right. Which is ....ing great, but will not go down well with the ...ing politicians, ...ing businessmen and the ...ing religion. Basicaly the whole ...ing Mother Culture thing.

      Have you noticed that he is not very famious in the that bastion of critical thinking the US? Also, Holywwod does not like him and the feeling is mutual. He was approached once by Disney I believe about filming "Mort" but they asked him to remove Death (WTF?!?!?) because he was too....scary:))

  313. Re:Wizard of Oz by conureman · · Score: 1

    That's a good quick read, don't remember what morals I learned from it, have some sympathy, maybe. Gulliver's Travels kind of poked fun at society, too, and was a bit more pointed about it.

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  314. Don't Forget Max Brooks. by Captain+Courteous · · Score: 3, Informative

    I realize this may not occur to anyone as a shoe in for such a course, but I took a class in my sophomore year of college in which we covered Max Brook's World War Z. Almost every other text used in the class was met with mixed enthusiasm (we covered Dune, Neuromancer, Caves of Steel, Electric Sheep, Starship Troopers, etc.) but everyone seemed to love Brooks' work and discussion went fantastically. Any student vaguely familiar with Bush-era political controversy will gain a huge appreciation of how effectively satire can be incorporated in works of science fiction. And everyone loves zombies right now, so it's win-win.

    Where Le Guin is concerned... If you dare to subject high school kids to The Left Hand of Darkness, good luck reviving them afterward. I know little about Earthsea, but from what I've heard secondhand, that may be a more viable option for your purposes. If including a female author is what you're looking to do, then go for Mary Shelley, the woman who invented the science fiction novel.

    Someone has probably already said it, but show people how wonderful the mind of Tolkien was by giving them The Hobbit, not the trilogy. The Hobbit is the book that made me love to read. As far as I'm concerned, it offers much more memorable people and places in a much tidier package than the drawn-out, song/poem-laden trilogy. One advantage to using LotR, however, would be if you were looking to get into the function of allegory.

    For short stories, a nice place to start might be Neil Gaiman's collection Fragile Things.

    Dune is awfully hard not to recommend. One of my favorite novels, it wasn't until I read it with others that I started to notice uncanny resemblances to certain modern-day desert conflicts.

    And if you get a chance, be sure to fuck their minds up with some Phillip K. Dick and make them laugh with the first installment of Hitchhiker's Guide.

  315. about that course description... by Harvey+Manfrenjenson · · Score: 1

    I think you are really mulling over two different questions here-- the first is which books you want to teach, and the second is *how* you want to teach them. The second question is probably the more important of the two.

    What kind of analysis do you and your students want to engage in? What kind of questions do you want to ask about these books? You've suggested that you mostly want to focus on the socio-political messages within SF. Or, to quote from your course description:

    "Through this course, students will utilize analytical skills and reading strategies to evaluate our current situation and project into the literature of different worlds while sharing and learning of an author's insight."

    Now... I get the sense that this is an early draft, and that you aren't quite happy with what you wrote here. You seem to be saying something like this: "We want to see if we can draw analogies between world-historical events and the events depicted in these books". But that probably isn't quite what you meant to say, and at any rate, it's not a very good question to build a course around. You're going to get a lot of very boring term papers... comparing "Starship Troopers" to the Cold War or whatnot (as a previous poster suggested).

    What I would do in your shoes is to think up some specific questions or topics that you *would* like to see your students write term papers about. Here are a few I can think of offhand.

    * Both Asimov and Herbert wrote about secret groups of technocrat-heroes who manipulated human history without their subjects' knowledge or consent. Did the authors intend a political message? Or were they apolitical, and simply using technocrats as a storytelling device?

    * How do you define "science fiction"? Is "1984" science fiction (some would say it isn't, despite taking place in a projected future)? What about "Gulliver's Travels"?

    * What does the genre of science fiction owe to the Western?

    And so on... of course yours will be different from mine. Come up with 10-15 good ones and share them with your students. I think that'll help you to clarify, both for you and for them, what your goals are for this course.

    Oh, and there's a book by Kingsley Amis ("New Maps of Hell") in which he analyzes early SF. I haven't read it but Amis was a great writer, so it's probably worth checking out.

  316. Re:Thumpers by conureman · · Score: 1

    "I don't think they got the irony of trying to ban a book about book banning."
    Mark Twain said "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Or as my friend Patrick Laffey (RIP) used to say, "You can't make this shit up." Comedy.

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  317. Baen Free Library by jfb2252 · · Score: 1

    http://www.baen.com/library/defaultTitles.htm/ to save the students money

    Agent of Vega or another one of the James Schmitz selections
    Crown of Slaves - David Weber (Harrington universe) - long
    Mother of Demons - Eric Flint
    Mountains of Morning - Lois McMaster Bujold
    Oath of Swords - David Weber fantasy
    Pandora's Legion - Christopher Anvil
    Sleipnir - Linda Evans
    A Logic Named Joe - Murray Leinster
    Starliner - David Drake

    and many others

  318. sweet list by tempest69 · · Score: 1

    awesome list... Id mod up if possible. id go with 2 parts... ________________________ Humans gone amok 1984.... There's a reason that it holds up for 60 years. O'Brian, wow. I need my 2 minutes of hate. soylent green aka "get out get out" Shows that those things we take for granted can be amazing. Gattaca or Brave new world Both Awesome dystopias that are polished to respectability. _____________________________________________________ Aliens and Space opera.. man-kzin wars orson scott card-- enders game Aliens to end things out with some fun __________________________________

  319. I'm surprised no one's mentioned this yet, but... by AbraCadaver · · Score: 1

    what about reading what established authors in the field consider to be good science fiction? James Blish was famous for this, even to the point of being a critic of his own work. He wrote for a time under the pen name William Atheling Jr in several science magazines. His articles are collected in the books "The Issue at Hand" and "More Issues at Hand".

    Robert Silverberg wrote "Science Fiction 101: Where to Start Reading and Writing Science Fiction" which is an awesome (and humble at times) look at what made his fiction better, what he learned in the process of writing it, and what he thinks are great stories by other authors.

    Two favorites on the subject from Ursula K. Le Guin are "The Wave in the Mind" and "The language of the Night".

    And finally, "Zen in the art of Writing" by Ray Bradbury.

    If this were a class I was teaching, I'd have the class read some of the stories mentioned by the above authors, then go on to read what the authors thought of them. Granted, the class may not be about writing, but it does help build an appreciation of the craft to be able to follow the various styles of writing them, the processes involved, etc.

  320. Map the spectrum first... by Denagoth · · Score: 1

    An interesting question. I humbly suggest that the objective of the course should be to expose students to as many different facets of the SciFi / Fantasy spectrum as possible given the time constraints.

    The genre isn't just "SciFi" and "Fantasy" - it's much, much broader than that. The instructor should identify the segments first, and then allow the students to choose in which directions they want to explore. Here are some examples:

    "Epic" Fantasy: J.R.R. Tolkien, Raymond E. Feist, Ursula K. LeGuin., and Michael Moorcock.
    "Gaming" Fantasy: Marget Weiss & Tracy Hickman (DragonLance), R.A. Salvatore (The Darkelf Trilogy), and Gary Gygax (Gord the Rogue).
    "Gritty" Fantasy: Steven Brust (Vlad the Assassin) and Robert Lynn Asprin (Thieves World).
    "Traditional" Fantasy: Robert E. Howard (Conan) and Edgar Rice Burroughs (John Carter / Barsoom).

    You can do the same kind of thing with SciFi...

    "Military" SciFi: Keith Laumer (Bolos), David Drake (Hammer's Slammers), and - of course - David Weber (Starfire, Honor Harrington, and the Dahak series)
    "Traditional" SciFi: Robert E. Heinlein, Orson Scott Card, and Ray Bradbury.

    ...you get the idea.

  321. Re:Too Much $Fav_Author by sootman · · Score: 1

    Read some short stories by Asimov...

    Or better yet, his limericks. ;-)

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  322. How about someone who totally missed the mark? by HishnGA · · Score: 1

    Just an idea, how about throwing in something from before the "Golden Age" of Sci-Fi? I am thinking of "Doc" EE Smith with his "Lensman" series. Not that anything he wrote came to pass, but how many things he did not predict. For example, he has nothing about computers in any of his books, nor anything about bio-technology or similiar things. Your class might find some interesting things in how Science Fiction of the 1930's and early 1940's saw the world and how it might become in the future. Just an idea for something completely different.

  323. BOFH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pretty sure BOFH counts as both science fiction and fantasy...

  324. BORGES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    J.L.Borges, Borges, Borges, Borges, oh whats the use, too late, no one will read through 600 plus comments..........

  325. There is info for using sf in the classroom. by roguewriter · · Score: 1

    James Gunn and Chris McKitterick run the Center for the Study of Science Fiction at the University of Kansas. They have a summer seminar for educators which revolves around using SF in the classroom. They also have other materials available. The Center's webpage is: http://www2.ku.edu/~sfcenter/index.html They'll be glad to help you out.

  326. Make them read by propylene22 · · Score: 1

    1984! IF there was ever a generation that needed 1984 its this one. Also Hyperion 2 is a good one. I remember really liking the anvil of stars when I was in HS, but I'm not really sure that would be class appropriate. Aldus Huxley is also classic HS Reading. The hobbit is good beginner fantasy, but i think sometimes LOTR can be a bit dense with all the "insert crazy tolkien name" son of "insert tolkien name. I also had a rough time with the songs first go around. I think dune is a must. I think on of the key things even though it sounds ridiculous is to make sure to allow some in class reading time. When i was in HS most kinds didnt read shit. ALso In class discussion about what is really going on in the books and how certain books such as 1984 speak to us about what is going on today.

  327. Re:i'm not trying to be a troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well in my high school we learned that time exists so that everything doesn't happen at once. Along with the inevitable corollary that it is later than you think.

  328. You aren't going back far enough by NonSequor · · Score: 1

    Students will survey the histories of these genres and recognize how world events have been reflected onto other worlds. From the early formation of the genre, with Verne, and the classics of Clarke, Tolkien, Bradbury, and LeGuin, to the contemporary works of Card, Jordan, and Vinge, the genres have been about portraying humanity in possible scenarios.

    The earliest science fiction story I'm aware of is Voltaire's Micromégas. It's a story of a traveler from a planet orbiting Sirius who uses a vessel which uses the attractive and repulsive forces of the universe to sling itself from system to system. He comes to visit Saturn, where the inhabitants are dwarves to him, and then to Earth, where the inhabitants are microscopic to him.

    There's also Swift's Gulliver's Travels which has sci-fi/fantasy elements to it.

    Both of these stories are heirs to the tradition started by Don Quixote, which really planted the seed of exploring characters and society under abnormal pretenses, which is the heart of sci-fi and fantasy.

    --
    My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
  329. Schlock Mercenary! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Schlock Mercenary. It's a comic, yeah, but it's hard sci-fi with a lot of very interesting ideas. Most of it is also very well explained, and the author often engages in story related extrapolations.
    It's also relatively easy to understand, so it's good to start out with for the weak and/or uninterested readers.
    http://www.schlockmercenary.com/

  330. Modern Scholar by picross · · Score: 1

    I would recommend going to your local library and checking out this audio book - http://www.recordedbooks.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=scholar.show_course&course_id=81. It is a college course about sci-fi and fantasy and i think it would really help you decide which books you think would be best for your class. I listened to it last year and thouroughly enjoyed it.

  331. Going old... by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    1. Don't be afraid to go old (H.G. Wells _The Time Machine_, for instance, attempts to make some provocative claims about what happens to an increasingly technological society -- remarkable given when it was written).

    Also in that line of thinking, Huxley's Brave New World. Pretty damn insightful about the dangers of a abusing genetic-engineering technology, especially for the 1930s

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  332. Make sure they'll actually learn something.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You want stuff that there's a good chance your students have not already read, and stuff that's actually going to teach them something and be worthy of a serious English class.

    I'd include some works by Jorge Luis Borges. A good starting anthology is Labyrinths: Selected Stories & Other Writings. This is very high-grade literature -- IMHO Borges deserved a Nobel -- and demands a lot of the reader. I'd also include some George MacDonald. For short stories, try The Complete Fairy Tales. For a novel, try Lilith. Many of today's fantasy writers owe a huge debt to MacDonald. Another possibility is The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov. Or for something lighter, try Gargantua and Pantagruel by Rabelais.

    Hope this helps!

  333. sparsile's list of great SF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dune, by Frank Herbert (the best Science Fiction novel ever written)
    Childhood's End by Arthur Clarke (for the sense of wonder of unknowable things)
    A Canticle for Leibowitz by Frank Miller (religion and post-apocalypse)
    The Earth Abides by George Stewart (post-apocalypse)
    Inversions by Iain Banks (Moral dilemma of how much to interfere in a "weaker" civilization" plus a darn good yarn)
    Hyperion by Dan Simmons (multiple writing styles for each "chapter")
    The Doors of His Face, The Lamps of His Mouth by Roger Zelazny (great set of short stories)
    Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut (non-PC short story - great discussion will ensue)

  334. Celtica311 by celtica · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would suggest Terry Goodkind's First Book, Wizards First Rule, even though it is extremely lengthy because it is the beginning to what I believe to be the best Fantasy series ever to be written. Also, Tad Williams' Otherland is exceptionally wonderful. Something you maybe able to do for the longer books is assign them at the beginning of the semester and have an extra-credit test at the end of the semester over the book.

    1. Re:Celtica311 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sword of Truth? Seriously? It started out okay. Then it went into a weird bdsm fantasy, which, okay, that's fine if that's what you're into, but it kept. On. Happening.

      That fucking chicken for the first 80 pages or so of that one book was one of the most artless attempts at stylism of all time.

      The characters are repetitive in their attitueds, and their shallow moralizing soliloquies against incompetent straw people just got ever preachier. I cannot stand how every last prediction of every "good guy" character came to pass. Every time. If somebody makes a prediction and it doesn't come true, you'll find out that they aren't a good person (or weren't at the time). You can also tell the good guys because the speak at great length and repeat themselves. The bad guys seem kind of human, which might be why Terry feels the need to have them commit another rape or take a shit on some corpses or enslave uniformly beautiful women, so we know not to sympathize with them.

      The descriptions of the bad guys in the order are of a legion of caricatures.

      The one good book past the first one was the one where Richard was stuck in Altur'Rang, even as I chafed at the blatant and inexpert communism analogy with absolutely no nuance to the analysis. I think it's possible to make a book with a libertarian undercurrent instead of a libertarian tsunami. At that book and afterward it just became a slog through the endless repetition of Richard loving Kahlan combined with Communism is wrong and denying Richard's fascism is EVIL and completely different from denying Jagang's fascism, because nobody in the New World rapes, not like those nasty Old Worlders.

      The gimmick of a Wizard's Rule per book couldn't hold up past "there is magic in forgiveness". Beyond saccharine. It also seemed like people were amazed that Richard had subtractive magic in the first book, but as we go on we find out more and more people who had been using subtractive for ages.

      At least after a few books he got past the "princess is in another castle" stage.

      It ended with the evil rapists founding Earth, and the Order was basically Christianity. Which I can appreciate and all, but Wizard's Fourteenth Rule: There is magic in subtlety.

      The endings to most of the books were pretty...stupid. "Oh I already love you so your brainwashing power doesn't work on me and I'm the only person to ever think of that". "O hai, I'm in ur hometown, buildin' a statue, and now all your base are belong to us".

      I read every friggin' book of the series because I'm far too stubborn for my own good. Same reason I finished the Silmarillion. The incredible pedantry of the book reminds me of...well, of a lot of Objectivist writings. I wonder what's up with that.

      Although, to be fair, it prompted me to essentially give an essay outline right here, unbidden. There really is philosophy here to debate about, but I would hope that students on all sides could do better. The man spend thousands of pages elaborating a false battle between his blind ideal and incredibly naive pastiches of any other choice.

  335. Why Sci-Fi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not structure the class around some sort of analytic method? Some people can do the analysis on pop-vampire stuff, some on steam punk, some of sports history, some on fantasy, etc.

    The point of education is to teach the principles of various analytic methods. Give them the tools and skills, not get hung up on the nails and wood. Does it really matter what type of literature is used to achieve the effect? I'm just thinking more "Montessori", but that's the way we did it, back in the day. It was fun and we learned a lot. We learned *how* to learn and that learning could be fun.

    An abstract lesson can be taught by allowing the students to propose their own projects to cover it. Kids can surprise you.

    Several people have mentioned this type of approach and I can't agree more. Let the kids figure out how to explore the lesson by choosing their own genre. Have them present their analysis in an oral summary. One way to get people into new genre's is to hear other kids talk about it.

    This will work much better if you have the kids in smaller "working groups". Each covering a different genre but addressing the same general topics. Maybe they can produce a combined report, that pulls from each genre covered in their individual reports to give some sort of insight into the topic area.

    It's about using a kids natural interests to cover specific topics.

  336. recommended books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think I've read every science fiction book. Most of them are crap. Well - I've read hundreds anyway and I have kept notes on all of them including ratings. I really think the newer stuff is better. I absolutely love Heinlein but Orson Scott Card is better. Anyway you should absolutely positively have either "Ender's Game" by Card or "Jumper" by Gould. They are good on so many levels. They are very easy reading (why make it hard when there is easy stuff!) and they make you think (what would I do if I were in his situation).

    A good book that links ideas of society, ethics and science fiction that is an incredible read is Lovelock by Card and Kidd

    Other very very modern very very good books that make all of Heinlein look old:
    Chris Dolley: Resonance
    Walter Jon Williams: This is Not a Game (cool usage of crowdsourcing)
    Daniel Suarez: The Daemon (how to turn the internet into an overlord)
    David Brin: Kiln People

  337. Thematic grouping by Daetrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well it's impossible to ask for recommendations without those recommendations being influenced by emotions. But one way to at least mitigate that is to structure it around themes, since the description specifically states that the class will involve various social issues. For example:

    Read Robert Heinlein's "Starship Troopers," Joe Haldeman's "The Forever War," and John Scalzi's "Old Man's War." Then discuss what they think each author thought about war and its consequences and how that reflected or disagreed with society's views at the time.

    Read James Alan Gardner's "Commitment Hour," Lois McMaster Bujold's "A Civil Campaign," and David Brin's "Glory Season" and discuss gender roles and how science fiction can be used to explore them.

    Read Walter M. Miller, Jr's "A Canticle for Leibowitz," Roger Zelazny's "Lord of Light," and Lois McMaster Bujold's "Curse of Chalion" and discuss the role of religion in SF/Fantasy.

    Read William Gibson's "Neuromancer," Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash," and Vernor Vinge's "Rainbows End" and discuss how our view of the future in general and computers in particular has changed over the past few decades, as well as the differences and similarities between "serious" prediction of the future and satirical commentary on the present.

    Alternately one could read early and late books for each of Heinlein, James P. Hogan, Hubbard, Orson Scott Card and Michael Crichton and discuss the varying degrees to which (nominally) decent SF authors go loopy in their later years :)

    I'm sure there're lots more ideas along those lines.

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    1. Re:Thematic grouping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good ideas, but i'd add

      Frederik Pohl's "Gateway"
      and
      Orson Scott Card's "Treason" and or "Ender's Game" (my fav. book ever)

      Any book in Stephen King's "Gunslinger" Series

      An R.A. Salvatore "Drizzt" book (any one of the 15 or so...)

      Heinlen's "Stranger in a Strange Land" was good too.

    2. Re:Thematic grouping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like it but i think your missing two very key ones "anthem " Any Rand and The Diamond Age Neal Stephenson

    3. Re:Thematic grouping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah... and include K. Vonnegut in all of those "theme lines" Esp. stories from "Welcome to the Monkey House" and "Breakfast of Champions"

    4. Re:Thematic grouping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As it is a lit class maybe also look at novels that highlight different styles. So LeGuin's Eathsea Trilogy for the pared down language as well as the themes. Then add in "The Worm Ouroboros" by E.R Eddison (if still in print) for the opposite :-)

    5. Re:Thematic grouping by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      I may have missed it but people seem to be forgetting that in a single semester of a high school course, not that many books can be read.

      It is a non-honors class which would usually imply a little more relaxed pace (although lets face it, most of the people in this class will be a bit nerdy and I'm sure everyone *could* handle it). your examples help with that as you could potential pick 2 themes (one a quarter) and be good.

      In college humanities courses, I did a book a week pretty much with one session to discuss the book as it unfolds and another to discuss the completed text. In high school we spent far longer going through a book--and that was with a course meeting daily.

      --
      Bottles.
  338. Literature of the fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I found this to be one of the most enjoyable literary classes at my university. A few of my personal favorites from the course that had some fairly deep connecting issues between them:

    She, by H.Rider Haggard
    Frankenstein, by Mary Shelley
    Shadow of Innsmouth, by H.P. Lovecraft
    Fahrenheit 451, by Ray Bradbury

    There were a few more, but those are the one I'm remembering off the top of my head. I would particularly recommend She.

  339. Ender's Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ender's Game?

  340. Eye of the Dragon by gebbeth · · Score: 1

    A Stephen King book, pretty well written.

    --
    A closed mouth gathers no foot.
  341. The Last Question by Tybalt_Capulet · · Score: 1

    Asimov is a very good story-teller, and this is one of my favorite stories. It's ending is some-what cheeky, also.

    --
    Has the old saint in his forest not yet heard of it? That God is dead?
  342. Re:Unless you want students trying to fuck their m by sabs · · Score: 1

    Only 3 good books?
    Have you never read Starman Jones, Farmer in the Sky, Tunnel in the Sky, Puppet Masters
    The Lazarus Long stuff is out there.. it's true.

    But saying he only has 3 good books is seriously wrong

  343. R. A. Salvatore by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 0

    I think any of his Drizzt's novels after the first trilogy are very well written, and have much social commentary in them. Also Ben Bova (thinking Ender's Game) is probably one of the best writers of all time.

  344. Broaden the selection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The canonical authors are actually fairly mainstream. Look at how many derivatives of LotR there are.
    I'd suggest you look at authors that inspire and influence other authors.

    Given John Gardner's reputation as a writer and a teacher of writing, his novel Grendel would seem like a good choice.
    As selections from mid last century, I'd recommend Henry Kuttner and C.L. Moore, Olaf Stapleton, John Wyndham.
    Greg Egan and Kim Stanley Robinson are the pre-eminent successors to the Arther C. Clarke hard-science tradition, in either long or short form, and both routinely cover the ancillary issues mentioned.
    For the HS audience, books like MT Anderson's Feed, Max Barry's Jennifer Government or Margo Lanagan's short stories seem appropriate.

  345. One more List by tengu1sd · · Score: 1
    The Cold Equations Tom Godwin
    This is a grounded Science Fiction story. The problem has one solution and the laws of physics don't allow for extigent circumstance.
    The Last Question Asimov
    Another physics question.

    And then there were none Eric Frank Russell
    Farenheit 451 Bradbury
    Moon is Harsh Mistress Heinlein
    Voyage from Yesteryear James Hogan
    Postman David Brin

    Now we're involved in social science fiction. Does society have the right to dictate to the individual? The Postman makes a case for social cooperation over individualism. And shows how an individual can unknowingly light the fires of social unity with selfish lie. Damn, I need to go read that again.

    I Robot Asimov. These stories show people using tools, designing safeties and how those safeties can fail.
    Forever War Joe Haldeman. Ongoing misunderstood war. What rights do your troops have once they're signed?
    Monument Lloyd Biggle Jr. Light fiction, big social commentary. Death, Pollution, Pirate (developers).
    The People series Zenna Henderson - They live among us and just want to be left alone.
    To Serve Man The want to be our friends
    Bernie the Faust William Tenn - Let's make a deal
    First Contract Greg Costikyan Let's make a deal.
    Earth Abides George Stewart - The original apocalypse book.
    A Boy and his Dog Harlan Ellison. Another apocalypse story, a nifty film. Possibly a good pick when you'd like to collect unemployment due to some racey bits.
    Lucifer's Hammer Niven and Pournelle. This could happen next Tuesday.

    Princess Bride Goldman - Silly Fantasy incredible commentary. Allow extra credit for biography of Morgenstern.
    Silverlock George Myers Myers - A roll up of Fantasy
    Inferno Niven and Pournelle - Compare Dante to the the update.
    Midsummer Night's Tale The Bard - Yes it does so fit.

  346. Le Guin. All the way. by Kethryvis · · Score: 1

    i will say that my love affair with fantasy started in my freshman English class. We read Le Guin's A Wizard of Earthsea, which i recommend. It's short and really interesting. Or if you're looking for a longer Le Guin, The Left-Hand of Darkness has been done a lot in classes. There's tons there that can apply to today.

    Also, Bradbury's The Martian Chronicles is awesome. i wrote a paper in college for a US Canon lit class where i justified the use of scifi in the canon and went from My Antonia to Martian Chronicles with nothing inbetween, since both books are somewhat about the cultivation of a new land/world, etc.

  347. Hmmm.... by Count+Fenring · · Score: 1

    Normally I'd recommend Trillion Year Spree, which is a history of science fiction, but I really think that it's tough putting critical material, even pop history, in a high school environment. It still might be good for handouts. It's the book that justifies Brian Aldiss' existence!

    Otherwise, my suggestion would be to focus on exploring various subgenres and themes; one good way might be to pair up classic books with books that are strongly influenced by them. For instance, Starship Troopers or The Forever War, followed by John Scalzi's Old Man's War or something similar.

    I think the earlier poster who suggested pointing out how science fiction is a reflection of our world was on the money - I think particularly Charles Stross and Cory Doctorow might be useful there, as they are both strongly engaged in the current technological changes and social climate that our youth culture is growing from.

    1. Re:Hmmm.... by Count+Fenring · · Score: 1

      I just realized that I forgot fantasy entirely...

      And that Trillion Year Spree is immensely out of print.

  348. Scentific Facts by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

    You need to discuss the scientific facts commonly used in many of the Science Fiction TV programs (and obviously well known and believed by slashdot abusers)
    1. If you give a computer a really hard problem, it will explode.
    2. A nuclear reactor can easily explode, causing the Earth to split in half.
    3. You can travel at the speed of light squared.
    4. Spaceships can be steered jut like a car. Just jump in, and start driving.
    5. You can have sex with any (opposite sex) alien that you meet (and many of the same sex ones too).
    6. Aliens look just like normal people, except they are different colors.
    7. Aliens travel all the way to our planet just to steal the water. The probing stuff is just for fun.
    8. Aliens, who have the technological ability to create high level AI's and robots, need to enslave us to do their work.

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
  349. Lem, Asimov by mkporwit · · Score: 1

    Definitely include Stanislaw Lem. His "Eden" or the "Tales of Pirx the Pilot" would be excellent. Also, omitting Asimov would be a crime.

  350. Phantastes, Leaf by Niggle, Smith of Wooton Major by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 1

    I would recommend including Phantastes by George MacDonald, which is a good example of the type of fantasy that influenced the later work of Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. The copyright is even expired. I would also recommend a few of Tolkien's less well-known stories, like Leaf by Niggle or Smith of Wooton Major. If you want to expose them to the Silmarillion, I'd recommend the chapter on Beren and Luthien, and the one about Turin. I'd also recommend Cory Doctorow, though I haven't read any of his short stories.

  351. A Song of Ice and Fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That should cover most of High School English.

  352. Re:Unless you want students trying to fuck their m by StealthyRoid · · Score: 1

    I've read everything of his that I can get my hands on, with the exception of his YA stuff (started straight on the adult stuff from my old man's collection when I was a kid, never went back), and yes, I think my assessment is true (although you might be right about Puppet Masters).

    I Will Fear No Evil is probably the worst book I've ever read. It's the fucking Gone Fishin' of the literary world. The 2nd half of Stranger was unreadable. JOB sucked. Number of the Beast sucked. Friday sucked. I _want_ Heinlein to be good, I really do. I gave him plenty of chances, but, with very few exceptions, he failed to deliver. I mean, I get that it was a different time, and that you had to pepper your stories with a little sex to make them more palatable to the kind of people who were buying pulp sci fi, but Christ, I'd like a little bit of actual sci fi in my books, not just "Johnny fucked his mom in space again".

  353. THGTTG by delmierda · · Score: 1

    Any high school literature class that doesn't include a long discussion of the number 42 and the usefulness of a towel is, in this writer's opinion, not a literature class at all.

  354. William Gibson, Neuromancer by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    William Gibson, Neuromancer
    Because he foresaw so much that we now take for granted.

  355. E.E. Smith's Lensman Series -- First Space Opera by srothroc · · Score: 1

    I agree with the posters who have said that you should steer clear of perennial favorites -- most people will get around to reading those on their own. It's a good time to introduce good science fiction that they may never have heard of for whatever reason, or will not read. Even better is a chance to trace out the history of the development of science fiction and things that we take for granted.

    For example, there is E. E. Smith's Lensman series. I am not aware of a book or series that incorporates the idea of a space opera prior to this series -- when you read it, it seems old and hackneyed, but if you keep in mind the era that it was written in, you'll become aware that it's years and years ahead of science fiction for its time. Ask the students to read it and keep in mind parallels to science fiction they know and think about how science fiction was influenced by it.

    You can pick some other older books along these lines and do the same thing; for a project, have them select their own (old) book and then write a paper about what it did that has become common place in modern literature.

  356. My take on titles by jeffasselin · · Score: 1

    I'll probably repeat what others have said, but these are my suggestions:

    If you want to start from the origins, start from the beginning. I'd suggest excerpts from the Gilgamesh Epic as well as a few stories out of The Odyssey (the sirens, Charybdis, Circe).

    Then you can move on to a few Bible stories (really). Jonah is probably a good one. Not the full book, but again excerpts that are relevant (Good & Evil struggle especially, in the God-Devil dialog).

    Then mention something out of the Middle Ages. Beowulf is probably too dense for most. The King Arthur cycles are a good choice, though. Some stories like Tristan & Iseult for example can be very good choices.

    Then early modern works: fairy tales from the Victorian Era. Up to here it's mostly short stories and excerpts, short stuff that can get the class going and can generate interest and start people thinking. For a first full reading, a Verne novel is probably a good choice, pick one of the shorter ones.

    The Hobbit is definitely a great choice for the early 20th century. Faster and easier to read than LotR, and still quite important.

    Then middle-20th century. At this point, there's a LOT of choice. Heinlein, Clarke, Asimov are all big names you have to mention. I'll suggest my favourites, but it's a harder call here.

    Caves of Steel is a great choice from Asimov. You can add a story from the Foundation trilogy here too, it was serialized as short stories initially, so it's easily broken up. The story of Bel Riose might be a great way to connect to the mythology from the early class.

    Dune from Frank Herbert is hard to pass on. It is probably the seminal hard SF novel of the 20th century, and it is certainly not hard to make it current considering the environmental issues now affecting us. A good way to show how SF can inform the modern issues.

    Then more modern:

    Raymond E. Feist's Magician:Apprentice can be a good choice for later era Fantasy, but it's a bit light fare.

    I would recommend Terry Goodkind's Wizard's First Rule but this is for high school, and there's probably a bit too much violence and sexual content in it and the rest of his work is pretty bad.

    Robert Jordan's Eye of the World can be a decent choice, make them read the first half and compare it to Tolkien, he was actually trying to somewhat imitate his style to help immerse readers.

    One choice that might not be popular, but which would connect more with females is Melanie Rawn's Dragon Prince. Just have them read the first half of that book, it's decently self-contained. It does have some sexual content, but it's not exaggerated and often only hinted at. It has relationship, family, coming-of-age, politics, good fights, dragons, a lot of what Fantasy is often about.

    This is clearly not exhaustive but it's a list of titles I like and that I think would make good choices.

    --
    If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
  357. "characters and society under abnormal pretenses" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well then, why not go back to the Greek Dramas, and Homer's Iliad?

    In fact most of fiction has its roots in fantasy, and the real problem is differentiating fantasy from science fiction, which many literary scholars see as an arbitrary distinction.

    Of course, then so is the distinction between these two genres, and any other literature.

    Cue screeds and lamentations from "hard" science fiction geeks ;-)

  358. SF from the early '50s should be considered. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first science fiction story I ever read was in a collection of short stories when I was a sophomore in high school in 1958.

    It had such an impact on me that I became a life-long SF fan (good hard SF, none of that fantasy crap - which doesn't belong on the same shelf as SF). Reading this post brought the title back to mind and to my amazement, a google search for it found that it was a short story by Kurt Vonnegut! I'd totally forgotten who had written it, but the title is still as clear as day - "A Report on The Barnhouse Effect".

    I can barely remember the story line, but I have to say that was certainly an influence on me and I would consider it an excellent starting point.

    (FWIW, I've been a computer geek since the time I repaired Busicom calculators.)

  359. 5 Classics by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Asimov's _Foundation_
    Herbert's _Dune_
    Tolkein's _The Fellowship of the Rings_
    Gibson's _Neuromancer_
    Adams' _Hitchhikker's Guide to the Galaxy_

    The sequels are left as an exercise for the reader.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:5 Classics by Blackhalo · · Score: 1

      Niven/Pournel - Mote in God's eye... Lucifer's hammer.. Niven's - Long Arm of Gil Hamilton. Alan Dean Foster - For Love of Mother-Not

      --
      "There is nothing to do it. But to do it." -Floyd Pepper
    2. Re:5 Classics by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Niven but not _Ringworld_? These classics are to be literature, not just a fun read.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  360. Some good lesser-known suggestions by gratuitous_arp · · Score: 1

    It will be difficult to balance the free, creative mindset of F/SF with the structure of a class and the tangible results demanded by school systems and committees. Hopefully the students AND the teacher will go into the class recognising that there will ultimately be far more to take away from a book than what the social situation was during some period of time. Students will get lots of that in their history classes, and a book that stands out with them will make them review and appreciate those factors in their own time.

    Some background on the authors and their stories should be interesting and beneficial, but some of the novels being mentioned are worth more to be "enjoyed" than "studied". And worthwhile they are.

    I think there have been a lot of good suggestions... here are some I have not seen that I would include if I had to teach a course on F/SF:

    The Dying Earth - Jack Vance. The first Fantasy novel published by Jack Vance, a classic American F/SF author. It is a collection of related stories, each of which are 20-30 pages long, making them easy to sprinkle into a class. Being published in 1950, as a whole it provides quite an insight into the foundations of modern F/SF. For the Dungeons and Dragons-esque fans in the class, as I would have been, in this book Vance coins "The Excellent Prismatic Spray" -- which has been present in the D&D universe and among its many variations and spinoffs since the beginning of their existence. Despite being such an amazing contribution to the Fantasy genre, this remains a little known work today.

    Three Hearts and Three Lions - Poul Anderson. I struggle to call it "required reading", but it is a great work of Fantasy, and definitely should be mentioned to interested students. Anderson plucks a soldier out of WWII and places him in the world of King Arthur's Court. Somewhat similar to Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" in that way, but far more readable and shorter (180 pages).

    The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the Eighth Dimension - Earl Mac Rauch. I have never watched the movie. This book is phenomenal; I very much hope your students will get the chance to be exposed to it. The character of Buckaroo Banzai conveys a very unconventional, original, and amazingly sensible philosophy on life. Strong themes also include leadership and reactions to adversity. On the same level as HHGTTG in my opinion.

    Both Jack Vance and Poul Anderson have been one of the twenty-some recipients of the Damon Knight Memorial Grand Master Award given by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America organization -- on the list with names such as Heinlein, Clarke, Asimov, and LeGuin. Other names on the list may help you find more material -- though I'm sure you will have plenty. :)

    Best of luck with the class.

  361. Re:Too Much $Fav_Author by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    very well spoken

  362. flowers for algernon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have not seen this suggestion and it's late to the party... flowers for algernon. It is less overt scifi and the only book that has ever made me cry.

  363. Or Beowulf even? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In fact there was recently a half-decent fantasy movie based on that story.

    Banderas, yum!

    Captcha: metaphor

  364. Perhaps focus on old Eastern European stuff. by WCVanHorne · · Score: 1

    Some have been mentioned already such as Lem (I really liked 'The Futurological Congress'). Another is 'We' by Yevgeny Zamyatin which influenced '1984', possibly 'Brave New World' (although Huxley denied it), and other dystopian works. You might also study an early work that first introduced the term "robot"; 'R.U.R.' (Rossum's Universal Robots) by Karel Capek. 'R.U.R.' also likely inspired some parts of 'Metropolis' (another good study in its own right).

  365. orson scott card... by Odinlake · · Score: 1

    ...is a religious wacko undeserving of any recognition, imho.

  366. Isn't it obvious? by MadFarmAnimalz · · Score: 1
    What belongs in a High School Sci-Fi/Fantasy Lit Class?

    Virgins.

    --
    Blearf. Blearf, I say.
  367. Welshy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the realm of Fantasy but with real world ideal's such as social interaction, war and the definitions of right and wrong explained as never before, it has to be the "Sword of Truth" series by Terry GoodKind.

    The books are amazing

  368. From Experience by gena_st · · Score: 1

    I took a reading class in high school and got to choose my own books. I picked up a "Ray Bradbury's Complete Works" and read and reported on it until my teacher told me I needed to branch out. I agree with some of the comments above about real world lessons in sci fi, and have integrated some of that into my own teaching now (as a college CS teacher), encouraging students to respond to movies that portray computers/AI/robots, etc, and how it makes them feel about technology and technological advances. Some books I think would be appropriate at high school level: Ray Bradbury short stories - good for "potential future" discussions, quite often. C.S. Lewis ("Out of the Silent Planet" and "Perelandra") - I like these because they remind me that what's really out there is nothing like what I expect. Douglas Adams and Piers Anthony - I lump them together because they don't have a lot of "speculative fiction", but they almost blind you with "what makes fantasy fantasy". Plus, they're fun. Isaac Asimov - Especially "I, Robot" for good discussion about the direction of technology (and for an easy movie day - bonus points for answering the question, "Does the movie really accurately portray the spirit of the book?") and "Foundation" if you want to get into discussions about sociology and other philosophical topics (although it might be a harder read).

  369. Re:Unless you want students trying to fuck their m by G_of_the_J · · Score: 1

    Sigh. So, SO wrong on all counts. Did you ever actually read Heinlein's books for yourself or just take somebody's word for it? It is difficult for me to believe that anyone who read AND comprehended Heinlein's works could say such obviously incorrect things!

    --
    Even if it is not broken, hack it anyway! You'll learn something in the process!!
  370. Re:i'm not trying to be a troll by G_of_the_J · · Score: 1

    I learned science AND read science fiction while I was in high school. Why would anyone think that they were mutually exclusive? Brain damage?

    --
    Even if it is not broken, hack it anyway! You'll learn something in the process!!
  371. Heinlein - "If This Goes On..." by UttBuggly · · Score: 1

    Use this RAH short story and have the students compare characters, events, and society to today's Republicrats, and "prophets" like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.

    Edgar Rice Burroughs - The Barsoom books...any of them. Ask the question "how would John Carter fare in 21st century America"

    Asimov - "I,Robot". Bonus points for including the Harlan Ellison screenplay as part of the reading, followed by a discussion of science fiction adaptations to the big screen.

    The above will burn up a couple of weeks at the least.

    Good luck with the class....

    --
    I am my own gestalt.
    1. Re:Heinlein - "If This Goes On..." by tengu1sd · · Score: 1
      I already thought George W Bush is Nehemiah Scudder. RAH missed the first coming but he knew it out there.

      Another thought, Get the Original Harlan Ellison script for City on the Edge of Forever - Star Trek and compare the script to the production episode. The drug problem was censored out to portray an ideal Star Fleet and crewmen with issues. (Greed and substance abuser). Good fodder for discussion.

  372. Few suggestions by petrus4 · · Score: 1

    I consider the core Dragonlance series, classics. I'm talking about the three-book Chronicles, here; not the rest. Dragonlance was Pagan fantasy in the same sense that LOTR was vaguely Christian, IMHO.

    You might want to look at CS Lewis in the Christian category, as well; he did both fantasy and SF, although truthfully in my own opinion he is somewhat overrated. Narnia was ok, but not as good as most people seem to think; I've read much better, and some of them (the Silver Chair primarily comes to mind) were difficult to get into at all.

    The Never Ending Story was a much better book than the films suggested; the second film in particular was a hatchet job.

    David Eddings is also good; the Elenium is fluidly written and a very easy read, comparitively speaking.

  373. Re:Too Much $Fav_Author by The+Grand+Falloon · · Score: 1

    offtopic: your wife is a fox who writes nerd books. you are a fortunate man.

  374. The thinner, the better by ZmeiGorynych · · Score: 1

    Rule of thumb is, the thinner Heinlein's books, the better they are. Starship troopers is nice and thin as is Moon is a Harsh Mistress, I rather liked Friday and Door into Summer (nothing earthshaking, but nice reads), but all his thick books were steaming piles of crap, with Cat being near the top of the shit list (and I didn't even bother remembering the names of a couple other thick ones I read).

  375. Don't forget Stanley Weinbaum by clickety6 · · Score: 1

    His Martian Odyssey tale was one of the first to introduce a sympathetic but entirely inhuman alien.

    --
    ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
  376. Really? by Triv · · Score: 1

    What the hell is wrong with you people? It's like you haven't read any fantasy written before 1970, and this is a literature class he's asking about, not a weekend at the beach.

    I love sci-fi, I honestly do, but it isn't written for the classroom - while the concepts are often wonderful, the writing is a disaster. Remember that these stories used to be printed on pulp and sold for a nickel the way the National Enquirer is sold now. It's escapism, and that's fine. But come on - give the truly historic science fiction writers out there some credit and let Orson Scott Card be rediscovered a hundred years from now.

    Try Ambrose Bierce (especially "The Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" or Mary Shelley, or gk Chesterton, or Lovecraft, or Poe, or Jules Verne, or at the very latest Bradbury.

    It seems like this is the perfect forum for this, but honestly? You couldn't have picked a worse group of people to ask this about.

  377. there's a really old one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Bible.

    ok, a little light on the science bit, and the conclusion is a little obvious, but seriously stretches the student's vocabulary.

  378. Issac Asimov by datim · · Score: 1

    As a person the author might be an interesting object to discuss per se, as he - being a professor for physics and bio-chemistry (iirc) - usually detailed technologies from the future in a way that they seem quite possible for us. I remember having read something where he himself outlined how technologies mentioned in his short-stories had become reality after some decades (sorry, but no source for this at hand). I think his robot-laws from his robot-series (he had quite some stories around this topic) made it to a broader discussion about possible ethics for thinking machines. Anyway, it's impressive how he published science and science-fiction books besides each others (I know he also wrote scientifically about black holes and the like).

    I think the Foundation trilogy might be worth a consideration. While his "I, Robot" might be known more broadly due to the according movie, I consider the trilogy to be his true masterpiece. Especially his theory about pyscho-analytics as a mathematical discipline (in short: capability to calculate probabilities for future actions of masses - in terms of billions of people) is quite an appealing idea. But also the contained theories about might-distribution, ruling, conspiracies, raise and fall of political structures (empires) leave a whole lot to discuss.

    Just some more cents ...

  379. Suggestions by dominique_cimafranca · · Score: 1
    A bit of observation and recommendation: I'm just wrapping up a semester teaching World Literature which, in its short span, attempted to cover stories and poems from various times and cultures. Since many in the class seemed inclined to fantasy, I decided to throw in Gaiman ("Snow, Glass, Apples") in the same class as I was teaching Gabriel Garcia-Marquez ("A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings") While the class seemed quite taken with the Gaiman story at first, we actually found more to discuss with Marquez. The Gaiman story seemed pretty straightforward (and on subsequent rereading, had several unexplained plot points), the Garcia-Marquez had more depth. I like to think the class enjoyed the Marquez story more (though the Gaiman story was all right.)

    Anyhow, bearing this in mind, I respectfully submit my own list:

    1. Ray Bradbury ("All Summer in a Day" struck me the most)
    2. Stanislaw Lem (check out "Microworlds" for his dissection of scifi -- one thing that struck me about Lem was his focus on the evolution of language)
    3. Kurt Vonnegut,Jr. (obligatory, almost)
    4. Iain M. Banks
    5. Jorge Luis Borges
    6. Ursula K. Le Guin ("The Dispossessed")
    7. Richard Matheson ("I Am Legend")
    8. Walter Tevis ("The Man Who Fell to Earth" and "Mockingbird")
    9. Walter M. Miller Jr. ("A Canticle for Leibowitz", plus several great short stories)
  380. The Shockwave Rider is by John Brunner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some less-known classics:

    • "Edison's Conquest of Mars" - arguably the first space opera. Disintegrators, spaceships, space suits - all the usual stuff, but for the first time. Not a great read, but important historically.
    • "Metropolis" - the original silent, un-colorized version.
    • "The Shockwave Rider", by Norman Spinrad - way, way ahead of its time on "cyberspace".
    • The "Collier's Space Program". In the 1950s, Collier's Magazine had a series of issues proposing a space program, with beautiful illustrations. Von Braun was the technical consultant. Disney made documentaries about it. That built public support for the creation of NASA.
  381. lets hear it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    gimme a P. gimme a K. gimme a ..Dick.... err :(

  382. R.U.R. by KeithIrwin · · Score: 1

    Any class offering a history of science fiction should include an english translation of Rossum's Universal Robots by Karel Capek. It's short, but important. I took a Sci-Fi Fantasy class in high school, and the two stories we read which blew me away the most (and gave me the most helpful context later) were that and one of the original Conan stories by Robert E. Howard. I highly recommend including both of those.

  383. best book ever by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

    A Tale of Time city is the best for so many reasons, I won't even bother to list them all right now. It was not only my favorite sci fi book as a kid but it was my favorite book period!

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
  384. Now It Can Be Told by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can't do a SciFi class without the epic works of Kilgore Trout! Seriously, do include Kurt Vonnegut. Cat's Cradle or Slaughterhouse Five would do nicely.

  385. Brave new world by benchbri · · Score: 1

    Huxley wrote of a dystopian future where people watched TV an astonishing TWO HOURS A DAY. Thank god that hasn't come to... crap.

  386. Completely unrelated genres by kikito · · Score: 1

    Even if they often appear on the same shelves at your local supermarket, Fantasy and Science Fiction are unrelated genres.

    You might as well consider teaching the children how to make strawberry jelly on that same class.

  387. Isaac Asimov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DEFINITELY DEFINITELY DEFINITELY include some Isaac Asimov in this class. He is one of if not THE best science fiction author of all time. He has many short stories that you can choose from.

    But personally, I would recommend his novel 'NEMESIS' as one of the most well written and well constructed science fiction stories I've ever read.

  388. When I was in high school, in the late 80s by reason · · Score: 1

    We were assigned "Day of the Triffids", "The Tripods", "Animal Farm", "Farhenheit 451" and "Z for Zachariah", and "Playing Beattie Bow". They wouldn't have been my own picks, but they each had something going for them as texts.

    I'd pick Phillip K. Dick, Isaac Asimov, Ted Chiang and Greg Egan for some classic hard SF short ideas stories. What does it mean to be human?

    I'd add some Margaret Atwood, Ursula K. Le Guin and George Orwell for the more advanced students for some social "what if" exploration.

    For younger high-school students, I'd also go looking for popular YA titles on the shelves now. I don't know much about that category.

  389. What Belongs In a High School Sci-Fi/Fantasy Lit C by dontmakemethink · · Score: 1

    What Belongs In a High School Sci-Fi/Fantasy Lit Class?

    A bunch of pimply-faced NERDS!!

    --

    War as we knew it was obsolete
    Nothing could beat complete denial
    - Emily Haines
  390. Re:Too Much $Fav_Author by PeterBrett · · Score: 1

    Read some short stories by Asimov or Le Guin or Gaiman...

    One of the nice things about science fiction/speculative fiction, in my opinion, is that it works wonderfully well in the short story format. Even something as short as Asimov's 'The Last Question' provides an enormous wealth of literary, historical and scientific topics to discuss.

    Furthermore, you're quite right that too much $Fav_Author is bad, but I think that you would agree that some works are more worthy of in-class study than others!

  391. Discworld by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Terry Pratchet gives a lot to comment on: be it the parodies of Shakespearian works by the witches or the commentaries on human nature, there is so much to discuss and develop. Not just that, they're great fun and may actually encourage people to.
    Try out the Discworld novels - Wyrd Sisters might be a great start as a parody of Hamlet.

  392. Year Million edited by Damin Broderick by bradbury · · Score: 1

    You may want to consider the recently published "Year Million" by Damien Broderick. It isn't really Science Fiction or Fantasy since it is a number of chapters (short stories) regarding what life might be like in year 1 million.

    You would be hard pressed to find a better collection of thinking about current technological trends which are going to have to meld together things like advanced biotechnology, molecular nanotechnology, radical lifespan extension, mind uploading, virtual reality, transhumanism / posthumanism, etc. One of the problems with almost all historical science fiction is that it failed to treat the human mind as "software" that can be moved between hardware support systems. Some recent films have begun to touch on this, e.g. the "Matrix" series and perhaps the forthcoming "Surrogates" and "Avatars". While the "Terminator" series dealt with intelligent superhuman robots, the science is fundamentally flawed or dated even today.

    You might want to engage the class in real "hard science" (see Note 1) near term (next 100 year) transitions which have tremendous social impact.

    1) Biotechnology and medical advances leading to multi-thousand year healthy lifespans (not 100 year lifespans). If you can live long enough everyone gets to be a millionaire (compund interest) which changes the human social condition/dynamic/politics a *lot*.

    2) Molecular nanotechnology making living for "free" a reality (see my "Sapphire Mansions" paper (short read) or fully comprehend "Engines of Creation 2.0" (or Nanosystems for the real hard core scientists)). What is society like when Star Trek "replicators" become "real"?

    3) Molecular nanotechnology combined with the transition from a pre-KT-I level of civilization to a KT-II level of civilization (a Matrioshka Brain) presumably linked with nanomedicine, mind-computer links and eventually mind uploading, lead to a transformation of society unlike anything ever experienced (humanity moves from a physical realm to a virtual realm). That becomes interesting because it implies that much of what is currently found in Science Fantasy or Virtual Reality can become the primary reality.

    It is also worth noting that there is a significant probability (50-90%) that #3 transition *will* take place in the 21st century so many students taking the course and writing stories based on such concepts will have the opportunity to surf the rapids that will be involved in such stories ("You must begin first by being there").

    I would stress that to think or write about these concepts requires at least a 1 period class about what these advanced technology concepts entail, what fraction of them is here now, or coming towards us very rapidly and what we can foresee but could be viewed as "over the horizon". Broderick's "The Spike" and "The Last Mortal Generation" or for the hard core Kurzweil's "The Singularity is Near" are good background in these areas.

    Disclosures: I am the author of Chapter 7: "Under Construction" in "Year Million"

    Note 1: By "hard science" I mean science which doesn't violate (or really really stretch) known laws of physics. It could be argued that the Star Trek programs (e.g. faster than light travel), Stargate programs (worm holes not "crushing" people, unknown magical elements), Ringworld (unknown materials), (most current "mystical" TV shows (Medium, Ghost Whisperers) all fall into the category of "will never be realized" fantasy. In contrast, transitions 1-3 (above) all involve complex engineering (like "rocket science") but not "magic" (undiscovered or likely undiscoverable) physics.

    1. Re:Year Million edited by Damin Broderick by bradbury · · Score: 1

      Sorry, typo in the Subject: the editor/author is "Damien Broderick".

      Also, for what its worth, Raymond Douglas Bradbury is my 6th cousin twice removed and Norris E. Bradbury is my 5th cousin twice removed.

  393. Star Maker by Olaf Stapledon by supyo · · Score: 1

    Star Maker, written by Olaf Stapledon in 1937, is an excellent read that is often consider the forgotten cornerstone of science fiction. Its wording is intuitive and its concepts can be incredibly influential. I can imagine your students being blown away by its scope.

    --- Stapledon undertakes the immense task of describing the entire history of life in the universe.
    --- It tackles philosophical themes such as the essence of life, of birth, decay and death, and the relationship between creation and creator.
    --- Stapledon imagines alien biologies, minds and civilizations radically different from human ones. Some of the elements and themes briefly discussed prefigure later fiction concerning genetic engineering and alien life forms.
    --- Arthur Clarke considered Star Maker to be one of the finest works of science fiction ever written.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Maker

  394. sorry Harlan, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should really explore more of Harlan Ellison's sci-fi stories - I Have No Mouth being the obvious one.
    The man is the master of short stories in SF (Look up his Hugo wins) and his stuff would be incredibly easy for people to get into, yet still provide grounds for a high level of discourse.

  395. Re:i'm not trying to be a troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about teaching a science fiction course, but bringing some science into it? Give them just about any of Niven's short stories, for instance, and ask them to guess the ending - from, say, a first-year knowledge of physics.

  396. Re:i'm not trying to be a troll by polle404 · · Score: 1

    but while you're teaching high school students science fiction, kids in other high schools are learning actual science

    In Lit. class (substitute with appropriate name for english/[your language] class)? and i wasted my time learning about litterature there... silly me. ;-)

    --

    ~men are from earth. women are from earth. deal with it.~
  397. Ah, Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone manage to mention a female author yet?

    Assuming your class is not all male (or even if it is): Marge Piercy

  398. LE Modesitt Jr. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, he's a modern writer..... but hear me out.

    First, he's written both sci-fi and fantasy. Secondly, every one of his books that I've read (most of them) not only tell a story, but also have moral/ethical/cultural/societal issues.

    His fantasy series stuff is excellent, although in this case, the book I would really recommend is Adiamante.
    link: http://www.lemodesittjr.com/science_fiction/adiamante.html

    Cyborgs return to earth, the planet of death, after being gone for 10,000 years. The planet is ecologically a total mess, and society has split into two groups... the quazi-telepathic demi's and then normal people, draffs. Anyways, his writing really focuses on ethical/cultural/moral/societal decisions with a backdrop of high-technology and environmental catastrophe. It is a GREAT book, not just for the story, but in how it rings true with some of the problems we are experiencing in the world today.

    PLUS, its not such a long book that it will take all of your time. (Its about 300 pages in paperback)

  399. Olaf Stapledon and a vote for short stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you aren't familiar with Olaf Stapledon, pick up a reader at least. Last and First Men is long, but foundational (and brings in a lot of interesting history). He also wrote a number of essays and short stories.

    I'd second the "Short Stories" idea though. You can cover a lot more interesting ideas focusing on short stories instead of novels, and the interesting idea is what SF is really about IMO.

    Finally, if you decide to include 2001 (not a bad idea), then use the film not the book. More interesting and just as much "literature" as the book. BTW: The Academic Decathlon competition included the film of 2001 in the literature section back in 1991(?), so it isn't unprecedented or anything.

  400. Asimov by flolo · · Score: 1

    I can recommend, as many others, also Asimov. One reason why I would recommend him, is that he is not only a SciFi Writer, but wrote on almost every topic. There are collections, that include not only scifi stories, but also essays on writing scifi stories (e.g. How important are the names of your characters and what influence has the choice of names on the reader). I guess this aspect can also be very interresting in the a lit class.

  401. Heaven forbid we ask young people pause and think. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    The anti intellectualism from some members in /. puzzles me to no end.

    There is a point during your education when a book is no longer just a book, and when you learn to see it as the cultural product of a social context, with all the implications, both positive and negative, which should be open to debate.

    That this activity may appear boring to some people whose narrow interests in life are constrained to the topics discussed in this website is not surprising, what is surprising is how many people here constantly whine about asking people to do an intellectual effort that is slightly more taxing than the regular apathy we are inculcating on the youth in general.

    Sometimes I wonder why Chinese and Japanese people are the most ardent fans of things like classical music, opera, or serious cinema. Perhaps they normally get on with the boring bits of their education, reaping the benefits years later.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  402. What about the novel concept of teaching? by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    That is the teacher guiding people because he has the necessary knowledge to do so.

    Why do students have to be pampered, have choices and be entertained at every step of the educational process?

    Life is not like that, you have great moments, not so good moments, and most of it occurs in an unremarkable fashion.

    Setting the expectation of students to have all inspiring peripatetic teachers at all times, for all subjects, is simply unrealistic.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  403. Erikson and GRRM by Itkovian · · Score: 1

    You should certainly add both Steven Erikson and George RR Martin to your fantasy list, as they describe complex worlds, detailed plots, and epic stories, where there is no real sense of good guys vs bad guys, where 'facts' depend on the POV of the character, just as they do in the real world. The books also basically make you think about various issues that are relevant in our society.

    --
    I am the Shield Anvil. And I am not yet done.
  404. Non-English by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Id highly recommend works from Indian/Asian/Aboriginal cultures, falsely classified as "Myth" by the Euro-centric cultural-anthro-nazis. For example, the various creation and heroes-journey epics, if re-interpreted in the light of sci-fi pedagogy/epistemology/semiotics, they'd beat hands down any modern Scifi/fantasy work.

    Not for nothing that European authors and impresarios from Poe to Geoge Lucas (ueewwww!) have routinely ummm "borrowed" without attribution from these non-European sources.

    Id start with the Indian epic Mahabharatha which rolls sci-fi, warcraft, statecraft, romance, cosmology, philosophy, poetics ... all into one.

  405. Don't forget Anne McCaffrey by blusquid · · Score: 1

    Anne McCaffrey should definitely be included. Her books are great for young women to read as they have strong women's characters, which can be a lacking in a lot of Sci Fi / Fantasy. The books are also good for all reading levels, especially the Pern series, and are just all-around great literature.

  406. Sci-Fi Online and new genre by owenjohn · · Score: 1

    Allot of the classic authors referred to are available for free online, here for instance: http://manybooks.net/collections/SciFi_post1950.php (1950 thru 1960) If some of the science fiction is a little too 'liberal' for prude parents then I'd suggest C.S. Lewis' Cosmic Trilogy which are a surprisingly good read and quite rare among the majority humanistic sci-fi authors. Along that vein, I'd suggest there is another genre that could be added here - Erotic Fantasy with Space Ships. Seems to me there are a remarkable amount of dirty old men who write science fiction to fantasise about a new society where women have conveniently loose morals. Personally I'm an Clarke fan.

  407. Short list of suggestions by Bysshe · · Score: 1

    I would suggest a few classics, a few new ones, all relatively short and interesting. Students of that age don't have much attention span as a rule and usually (there is the rare gem) don't care to do deep analysis as I've come to expect nearing my 30s. With a wide range of potential students...

    I'd suggest a few other books that are thought provoking (not necessarily exciting page turners) Such as:
    Old stuff:
    A few short stories from Asimov's "Robot Dreams"
    HG Wells "Time Machine"
    Bradbury's "Fareinheit 451"
    L'Engle's "A Wrinkle in Time"


    New stuff:
    Gaiman's "American Gods"
    Adams' "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"
    Salvatore's "Sojourn" (let's them discuss fantasy formula writing and how to still make it good)

    But those are just off the top of my head... Every year there's a compendium of best scifi and fantasy short stories written. Get it and flip through it. Always a few good ones in there.

    --
    Read what I mean, not what I wrote.
  408. Suggestions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jules Verne, H. G. Wells, Gerard Klein, Isaac Asimov and don't skip Frank Herbert!

  409. Margaret Atwood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oryx and Crake presents plenty of ideas that are worthy of study.

  410. Tiger Tiger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    too lazy to log in:

    "Tiger Tiger" also known as "The Stars My Destination" by Alfred Bester

    It has some violent scenes, but the sexual parts are left to the reader's imagination. It's a good older book.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stars_My_Destination

  411. Bradbury/Crowely/Heinlein/Dick by down+and+out · · Score: 1

    I solicited the opinion of a friend of mine who is far better read than I. This was her contribution:

    The Veldt by Ray Bradbury...exemplary of the author's style, dark, shows what human nature becomes when we take true nature out of the equation...no sense of consequences.

    Little, Big by John Crowley...a generation-spanning epic of a family that lives on the edge of where modern world meets Fairie...but can never really acknowledge it.

    Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein...simply a beautiful example of how humans behave and how much a small change in their behavior could change our world. Please note things Heinlein envisioned WAY before our technology caught up w/him.

    Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Phillip K. Dick...the movie Bladerunner is LOOSELY based on this book. The novel personifies the alienation of a post-plague world where it is illegal to be more real than real.

  412. half and half by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. have half the class read ender's game
    2. have the other half read ender's shadow
    3. ????
    4. Discussion!

  413. SF is not an american invention by kubitus · · Score: 1
    give them some more:

    Jules Verne 1000 ,miles under the sea, thetravel to the moon etc...

    Werner Illming Utopolis

    compare whats a reality today - and find comments form that time.

    then take 1984 and Brave New World

    and check which elements are in existence today!

    you can frighten hell out of kids and parents alike without obscenity!

  414. Classics of SF and Fantasy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "1984" George Orwell
    "Brave New World" Aldous Huxley

  415. Fanasty eh? by kcdoodle · · Score: 1

    Try the Bible. The most widely accepted work of pure fantasy ever written.

    --

    - I live the greatest adventure anyone could possibly desire. - Tosk the Hunted
  416. Audio Reading by rwv · · Score: 1

    Lots of good Sci-Fi is available as downloadable audiobooks from the public domain site Librivox.org. I know Jules Verne is on there. I recall Ayn Rand's Anthem being fairly short (3-4 hours), good quality, and thought providing.

  417. What no Bester? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The stars my destination" should be essential reading. A short novel that covers enough confusion and content to make Lost fans drool. This modern day Lost / Flashforward type stuff is playing catchup to books written in the fifties. "The Stars ..." can also be compared with a fat arse book like The Count of Monte Cristo to cover the same revenge topics. I also like Jack Vances Demon Princes books, but thats just good fun space opera.

  418. Re: What Belongs in a HIgh School Sci-Fi/Fantasy by Lafriddle · · Score: 1

    Although she calls her writing "speculative fiction," her dystopia novels are fasinating to read and let's just hope they are fantasy. The Handmaid's Tale, Oryx and Crake, The Year of the Flood. She is terrificly clever, creative, and witty.

  419. War with the Newts by Zenaku · · Score: 1

    Apologies if it has already been mentioned (I don't want to search through 8 pages of comments to find out) but check out the 1936 novel War with the Newts by Karel Capek. A satirical work exploring what happens after the discovery of another species of sentient earthlings.

    --
    If fate makes you a motorcycle, you become a motorcycle.
  420. Astromaxia or Star Wars by Robert Wittie 1681 by DeanProcter · · Score: 1

    The earliest sci-fi book in my collection is Robert Wittie's 'A Survey of the Heavens' and 'Star Wars' published in 1681. It gave birth to a genre that has come a long way. The Sci-Fi Astromaxia or Star Wars - the story of a war between the inhabitants of other worlds was written to stimulate students and give them an interest in the study of the stars. I think the previous comments demonstrate the success of Witties endeavours. Any study of sci-fi is not complete without it. Conveniently the first part 'A Survey of the Heavens' opens with such chapters as 'The verification of the Copernican Theory' (goodbye flat earth) through to 'The probability of other inhabited worlds'. These chapters along with an apology to the god-fearing doubters were a good intro to Astromaxia and illustrate the early difficulty sci-fi writers faced - death. H.P. Lovecraft was a fan. His copy is in the Yale library. It is somewhat rare and you may find it through the universities on microfiche. If you cannot obtain a copy I could provide you with a digital copy of my own book.

  421. Re:Too Much $Fav_Author by horza · · Score: 1

    Dividing motivation into genres would be interesting. Categories that spring to mind under 'fear':
    * the Cold War / nuclear war
    * communism
    * technology - AI
    * technology - biological
    * corporations wielding excessive power

    Categories under 'What if...':
    * utopian societies / population control
    * galactic space travel / teleportation / parallel dimensions
    * limited/limitless supply of a material

    Phillip.

  422. Paizo by Nevynxxx · · Score: 1

    A subscription to Planet Stories

  423. Dianetics by minstrelmike · · Score: 0

    I think you might want a section using L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics to demonstrate how many folks have a hard time distinguishing fiction from fact.

  424. Suggestions by WRX+SKy · · Score: 1

    I took a SF/Fantasy class back in HS. When I signed up for the class I was not interested in either genre, but my choices that semester were: Modern Poetry, SF/Fantasy, or Shakespeare. Needless to say - I ended up really enjoying the class. Here is how I remember it going: - Started with a few short stories to ease us into the concept (wish I could remember them... the only one that sticks out was one about someone fleeing and running and in the end you find out it's an AI/Robot) - We had to read three novels from a very wide list (Adam's "Hitchhiker's Guide", Verne's "Time Machine", Card's "Ender's Game", "Brave New World", Edding's "Belgariad", Tolkien's "The Hobbit", Bradburry's "Fahrenheit 451", so many more) - Somehow we managed to fit in a lot of Twilight Zone episodes to get exposure to the more creative side of the genre. - While there were no formal "book reports" the students ended up talking to each other about their books... needless to say - I've ended up reading and owning just about every single book offered in that class. Long story short, great class - got me hooked on SF/Fantasy. I suggest taking a similar approach and just providing students with a suggested list and cut them loose. It worked really well. I can remember several students who started a book, hated it, and switched to another before they found the reading list they wanted.

  425. some ideas by Minion+of+Eris · · Score: 1

    A casnticle for Liebowitz 1984 The Chrysalids Brave New World A Clockwork Orange Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep Stand On Zanzibar, and The Sheep Look Up Also consider Frankenstein and The Handmaids Tale (although Ms. Atwoood will maintain that this one is NOT SF, I think she is just trying to stay out of the Ghetto) All of the above deal with your Socio/political criteria, and a couple (Sheep Look Up and Zanzibar) are directly environmental tales. For a bit of fun, you might throw in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress as R. H. deals well with the citizens responsability to revolt when the Gov. is irresposible.

    --
    Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say.
  426. My recommendation by Wargames · · Score: 1
    The reason's I am picking these is because: 1) They are easy reads. 2) They are thought provoking. 3) They are different from each other.

    1) George Orwell - 1984 The discussions resulting from this book should be rather lively as Orwell pretty much nailed our present. ++Good.

    2) Douglas Adams - Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy After reading Orwell, reading this will be rejuvinating. You can discuss the questions of life, the universe, and everything.

    3) Greg Bear - Eon http://books.google.com/books?id=7yHURwnbFvAC&lpg=PP1&ots=H8tcoydu_h&dq=eon&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=&f=false The many ideas in this book are awesome. You could assign your class an essay 'You go 1000km and dig a whole and find a new universe, write about it'.

    4) William Gibson - Neuromancer Neuromancer is kind of like a Moby Dick of Science fiction. The words used flow in a way that make you feel the world. It is probably the most difficult read on my list.

    5) Arthur Clark / Ken Baxter - The Light of Other Days The discussion of Privacy is likely to be lively.

    I could recommend many more...

    --
    -- Each tock of the Planck clock is a new world and here we are still life. --
  427. Don't forget the classic by rrconan · · Score: 1

    Don't forget the classic: Brave new world !

  428. The Forever War by Daze-wan · · Score: 1

    I rarely post on slashdot, but i was surprised to see that The Forever War had not been mentioned yet. it fits well with the topical notion of examining war, and presents some interesting ideas like time dilation (thanks relativity!) this could be a valuable text for examining the vietnam war, as well as examining current conflicts. philip k dick is another, however holllywood seems to have raided his texts to the point where no-one can tell if they're hollywood stories or his storys (hmmm...that's almost apropos...) anyhow, just my $0.02 but these amazing authors (dick and haldeman) always seem to get overlooked when people make lists of sci-fi books.

  429. What does he have to ask? by raque · · Score: 1

    If the teacher needs to ask this question maybe he shouldn't be teaching this course. My idea would be for him to go to his local library and read all of their SciFi collection. Then go the the next one and read anything not in the first. As a rule the librarians will keep decent stuff on the shelf. After that, it's just lit.

  430. Compare classics with knock-offs by minchazo · · Score: 1

    In my favorite English class, we read "Jane Eyre" and an early Harlequinn romance. Our teacher challenged us to explain why one was a classic and the other was smut. It was surprisingly difficult!

  431. Classics and history by Don+Philip · · Score: 1
    A lot depends on what you'd like to do with the course. If you just want to explore scifi and fantasy, then the suggestions already made are fine. However, there is the possibility of linking the science fiction part to historical events to give students a better understanding of them. To that end I would recommend:
    • Alas Babylon: This is a book about the aftermath of a nuclear war, and its effect on a group of ordinary people.
    • Star Man's Son (aka Daybreak-2250 AD): Another post-apocalyptic novel (and suitable for younger readers) that illustrates the level of worry about nuclear war in the cold war.
    • A Canticle for Leibowitz: A classic story about how history repeats itself.
    • Sirius: A very early story about genetic engineering. A scientist produces a dog with human intelligence, and the book revolves around the relationship between the dog and the scientist's daughter.

    All of these, and there are a number of others, reflect the concerns of the 1950s and 1960s, something that your students might not be aware of, and which are still affecting us today.

  432. The Music of Chance by Paul Auster by VoyagerRadio · · Score: 1

    Paul Auster's The Music of Chance immediately springs to mind. You really should consider books that aren't full of the usual genre material -- not only to provide a wider survey of these genre but also to help youth in understanding that science fiction/fantasy isn't all Battlestar Galactica and Lord of the Rings. The Music of Chance is that Twilight Zone-ish strange tale that is at once terrifying and impossible. It's an easy, relatively short read (perfect for high schoolers). Great introduction to "the strange tale" for those who might be turned off by all the space aliens and/or orcs and elves. Anyone up for a game of cards?

    --
    Harold
  433. Tough Question by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    By tough question it would be hard to only choose a few, knowing that you can only cover so much material. I read some when I was in high school, but it wasn't a dedicated science fiction fantasy class. We did 1984, Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Chrysalids, and Flower for Algernon I know I remember at least.

    It somewhat matters what level of High School you are talking about, some books are more appropriate than others.

    A good resources is: http://home.austarnet.com.au/petersykes/topscifi/index.html

    I would also suggest breaking the genre down into categories to get a broader experience. I would also avoid any of the non-serious "trash" science fiction and fantasy, while they may be fun and easy to read, they are not of great value (other than perhaps to get kids interested in reading in general). I would also stick to single books, not series for sake of time. Also pick shorter books, simply because you can cover more, and they may hold short attention spans better.

    Some other classic books that would be on the short list:
    Dune (it really has to be).
    A wrinkle in time (more for younger audience).
    Left Hand of Darkness.
    War of the Worlds (really have to understand when it it was written to really grasp the depth of it).
    Snow Crash (I believe there may be a rape scene which may be a problem).
    Slaughterhouse V.
    Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
    The Time Machine
    A Canticle for Leibowitz
    The Forever War.
    Something by Crichton (not including Timeline lol)
    Something by Asimov
    Something by Clark

    There are plenty more. Many of the authors also have older shorter just as interesting books such as Frank Herbert. I didn't bother mentioning many of the other one already mentioned like Starship Troopers or Tolkin. Somewhat because they are obvious, and mentioned by many, but also because Tolkin, other than Hobbit which may be too young (maybe not), really is too long to cover and with the exception of Troopers I am not a huge fan of Heinlein.

  434. Textbook Recommendation by airship · · Score: 1

    I recommend Thomas M. Disch's marvelous book The Dreams our Stuff is Made Of. It's a thorough study of how science fiction has influenced scientific and social developments in the 20th century.

    --
    Serving your airship needs since 1995.
  435. SF: The Rorschach Ink Blot of literature by mrthoughtful · · Score: 1

    Bradbury, Lem and Leguin have all written extensively on the importance and meaning of Science Fiction. As for authors, don't neglect Borges - probably the most important short story writer of all time; the Strugatsky Bros. are important - especially in light of their working environment - as is Theodore Sturgeon - who was an important author in his own right - and whose texts generally focus on exploring the meaning of love. To poorly paraphrase LeGuin (it's been years since I actually read the piece), Science Fiction not only allows but requires the full creativity of the author. Probably the most important aspect of Science fiction is the pregnant constructions that reveal the unconscious (or not so unconscious!) beliefs and prejudices of the author. Even though modern Lit. Crit suggests that textual analysis does not reveal the author, within Science Fiction, I would beg to differ. IMO Science fiction is very much the result of a full disclosure of the Rorschach Ink Blot of writing; if you can create the entire universe, what (physics, etc) would YOU inhabit it with?

    --
    This comment was written with the intention to opt out of advertising.
  436. Penguin Science Fiction Omnibus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.amazon.com/Penguin-science-fiction-omnibus/dp/0140031456/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254817689&sr=8-1
    or perhaps
    http://www.amazon.com/Science-Fiction-Omnibus-Wilson-Aldiss/dp/0141188928/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254817689&sr=8-6

    Edited by Brian Aldiss, it's a diverse selection of short stories that contain some incredible ideas I still recall 30 years after I read them, and which should be largely applicable today.

    Questions like:
    What is the meaning of humour?
    Just how close are creativity and "madness"?

    It's not just spaceships and aliens, but real thought-provoking stuff.

  437. Kane Bloodstone by BodhiCat · · Score: 1

    Karl Edward Wagner's Kane, one of the most overlooked anti-heroes in scifi/fantasy. Bloodstone is one of the best fantasy novels of all time.

  438. Keywords: dystopias and social experiments by sebaluks · · Score: 1

    I would emphasize on authors who write about dystopias and examine carrefuly human nature and social conditioning. To name the one: Janusz Zajdel ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janusz_Zajdel ) Probably there are many other who wrote about it, but give a try someone who really knows how it was when totalitarian regime ruled in his country.

    --
    -- "In theory, theory is the same as practice, but not in practice."
  439. What belongs in YOUR class? by crazytisay · · Score: 1

    I think you should consider what your students have already read and avoid it. Being forced to read Farenheit 451 and The Time Machine from grade school through high school because teachers don't pay attention to each other's syllabi gets really old. Check with the other lit teachers and see what they normally make their kids read before you commit to a curriculum. I think it would be best to try to introduce students to something they haven't already been exposed to. If they're taking a sci fi lit class in high school I'd wager that's what they want from you anyway.

  440. We still live with the nuclear threat by bareman · · Score: 1

    Maybe you meant to say "she never really lived with an awareness of the threat of nuclear annihilation." ?

  441. Comics can help with relevance by ncypher · · Score: 1

    I believe you will get mileage out of using difference mediums. I recommend some short stories, a la Asimov's works (your choice). I also recommend some novels, such as the Ender's series by Orson Scott Card (plenty of social and moral questions in that, esp. the sequels).
    I would also recommend comics. Superman and Batman are still known to the current generation through cartoons and movies, for the non-readers. You can look at the art as well as the topics and writing for different eras. There is a decent documentary by the History Channel, titled "Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked", covering comic book heroes from the 30's through the turn of the century.

  442. Stephen R. Donaldson by Mr.Danza · · Score: 1

    Have a look at the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (Lord Foul's Bane, The Illearth War, and The Power That Preserves). Fantastic series about a leper from our world slipping into what is either a comatose based delusion or another world where he finds he is regarded as a symbol of rescue and enormous power.

  443. where's the women? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't going to comment, but as I taught a semester of "The New Wave" science fiction as an English expansion in 1975, one of the most radical things you could introduce in such a course would be women writers:

    James Tiptree, Jr (Alice Bradley Sheldon)
    Ursula K. Le Guin
    Kate Wilhelm
    Johanna Russ
    Doris Lessing
    Pamela Sargent
    Octavia Butler
    Marge Percy
    Suzette Haden Elgin
    Leigh Brackett
    Judith Merril
    Elizabeth A. Lynn
    Idris Seabright
    Sheri S. Tepper
    Mary Shelly
    Andre Norton
    Pat Cadigan
    Joan Slonczewski
    C. L. Moore
    Vonda McIntyre
    Joan D. Vinge ... to name a few.

  444. James Tiptree, Jr. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A Momentary Taste of Being

    Greatest short story ever.

  445. Be Relevant by FtDFtM · · Score: 1

    Pick books/stories that will resonate with issues today's kids are aware of. for example, Heavy Weather by Sterling - for global warming, 1984 - for surveillance and privacy, I'd spend time writing more, but this post is so late that it will probably never be read. . . .

  446. Lest We Forget by Toad-san · · Score: 1

    one of the REAL classics:

    Harry Harrison's "Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers" !!!

    One cannot address a genre without looking hard at the satire.

    And that was one of the best, just jam-packed (strange word, that) with stereotypes, stock situations, and the like. Like fitting the 747 for interplanetary flight: that was a Heinlein teen-SF schtick at its finest :-)

    The "Steppen Fetchit" character Old John (the black school caretaker) might raise some hackles, at least until he reveals his true nature :-)

  447. Re:"characters and society under abnormal pretense by NonSequor · · Score: 1

    I agree with that and I was considering stretching it back that far in my post. But I think that may be stretching the scope of the class a bit too far. I wavered a bit in whether or not to go back as far as Don Quixote.

    I think you can draw the line at Swift and Voltaire for the point where the idea of using a fictional society as a vehicle of contemporary social criticism began. There are of course many examples of earlier texts describing societies that never existed, but these were presented as legends. They were things purported to have at least some grain of historicity to them (even if they really were completely fabricated).

    From that perspective I think you can tie the development of sci-fi and fantasy as we know them to the development of the modern novel (which is why I ended up mentioning Don Quixote as well).

    --
    My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
  448. I know how you feel. by Dareth · · Score: 1

    I know how you feel. I took a class on Greek and Roman mythology way back when it was still "Modern Literature."

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  449. Prepare, then let students help design the class by pmarinus · · Score: 1
    If you are a good teacher, and love sci fi and fantasy, then I recommend doing a lot of preparation, but co-constructing the course with your students. That way you can engage their interests, and they can contribute from their own experience.

    Co-constructing does not mean that you abdicate responsibility, or don't provide a format for the class. It means you get feedback from the students on the material, and themes. If your students get so excited by a theme that it motivates them to explore read more widely and think more deeply that's great.

    You can also have a core of short stories and novels that everyone will read and discuss, and let students develop their own personalized reading lists. At an in-between level, students can form groups to focus on a theme or an author ...

    If you let students take a strong role in the class, make sure there is a solid place for kids who are new to science fiction or are shy about taking the lead. One thing you can do early in the class is to pick out some stories that you think are likely to be new to your class and make the discussion focus on the ideas, characters etc of the text. Don't relate it to Sci Fi/Fantasy as genres at that point. By the time you talk more about genres, students will have something to go on.

    If you are willing to put in the time I would set up a wiki or a google group or other format for everyone to share ideas. (This would be in addition to traditional writing assignments)

    By all means give kids resources for plunging in, but don't make the point an understanding of the history and range of the genres. [Personally I think either Fantasy or Science Fiction has sufficient scope for a course and wouldn't mix them.]

    I read lots of science fiction in High School because I wanted to. I even read some good science fiction in classses ( Cat's Cradle, Fahrenheit 451, A Canticle for Liebowitz). I read it because it was fun, because it stimulated my imagination, not because it was someone's idea of canon. Don't include something you would hate to read. I know people's tastes vary, but I doubt my High School English teacher really liked Silas Marner.

    /. readers have made lots of great suggestions (meaning books I've read and liked) as well as ones I'll try out myself. Dive in. Here are a few short stories I read and liked way back in High School

    • Philip K. Dick 'We Can Remember It For You Wholesale' [the very loose basis of the film Total Recall ]
    • Robert Sheckley 'Untouched by Human Hands'
    • Issac Asimov 'The Ugly Boy'
    • Alfred Bester 'The Men Who Murdered Mohammed'
    • Stanislav Lem 'The seventh sally or how Trurl's own Perfection lead to no good' from The Cyberiad
  450. Re:Cold Equations (Spoiler Alert) by bordershot · · Score: 1

    I took an SF course at UCSC in the 90s, and that short story was used as an example of hard sci-fi. I find it interesting that you were so moved by the story when I took it exactly the opposite way--the author put a cute young girl into a made-up situation where she had to die to appease the gods of physics (i.e. the cold equations) in an obvious and blatant attempt at creating a tear jerker. YMMV, of course.

    That said, I think my favorite comment in the class was that since she was hiding behind a door in the closet, couldn't they have jettisoned the door?

  451. Not one mention of Terry Brooks? by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1
    --
    How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
  452. A few practical suggestions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A few suggestions, based on my background teaching in the Humanities, in HS and college, and in designing sites like WisdomoftheJedi.com and TwilightNewsSite.com.

        Many students get most engaged when the theme of the work is "growing up," and thus the Twilight series is bound to come up. Meyer discusses everything she could fit in about maturity into the texts (hence, their popularity). Her concerns range from the major -- e.g., asking oneself how to choose a life partner by examining who you most want to be like -- to the more prosaic -- e.g., how to organize one's time, how to cook, and how to clean.

        I will be posting on my Twilight site (soon) a listing of major themes within the series, which may help focus class discussions, necessary for such a popular work, so they don't descend into "I love it more than you" arguments.

        If you haven't read the Twilight series yet, be aware that a major theme is pre-marital vs. post-marital intimacy, which is underscored by non-specific yet enthusiastic descriptions of married intimacy. Some of my teens were confused and/or offended by those parts. So, if you don't want to host discussions of sex in the classroom, the earlier books would be better. I suggest avoiding discussing these portions of the final book, "Breaking Dawn," at the least.

        Star Wars is another popular option which is bound to come up. Just a warning: many of these books are written as part of an on-going series, and the introductory texts of each series many not offer much of a conclusion/plot in themselves.

        FWIW, there is a Young Jedi Knights series which is for YA, though the books are light and a little goofy. Vague thematic structures. Fun reading, but not much there.

        The Jedi Apprentice series was aimed at tweens, and are brief novellas, but are actually quite good, taking on the struggles of maturity and growing up within traditional sci-fi "what if" environments. Lead characters are well-known from the films, Qui-Gon and a young Obi-Wan. Very strong themes, including in the first book, "The Rising Force," written by Dave Wolverton. He offers many insights any young person (especially, boys) should relate to. Jude Watson takes over the series from there, and she largely leaves out any specific concerns for growing males, so if the class has a large number of girls, you may want to select one of those. Wikipedia and other sources have quick synopses of these and other works.

        If I had to choose between a couple of more adult Star Wars books, perhaps the best SW book is "I, Jedi" by Michael A. Stackpole. It is well isolated from any series plot points, a good thing for the classroom. A warning: the lead is preoccupied quite seriously with whether to be unfaithful to his (missing) wife, so that may be a bit much for a high school classroom.

        However, the SW book, "Traitor" by Matthew Stover, is a truly excellent work which focuses on the teen, Jacen Solo, and takes place largely outside the events on the on-going series it is part of (New Jedi Order). The lead is taken through several microcosms of living, based on one's worldviews. It is a serious work. The author attempts to take the Star Wars universe out of a simplistic good vs. bad duality (light/dark sides of the Force) into a more complex, subtle, Taoist view of living. (He succeeded only too well, throwing the entire series out of whack, until they had to turn the lead into a Sith and kill off the character in later books. Sad.)

        Good luck with your course. And in keeping it on the schedule!

  453. Sci Fi Masterworks and more by lkcl · · Score: 1

    I've read it must be over 500 sci-fi books, and own over 300, so there is a long list that I'm aware of, to choose from.

    The absolute first book to be read by a class, without a shadow of doubt, is "Last and First Men", by Olaf Stapledon. The reason is simple: this book covers from the 1930s when it was written, and from there each chapter jumps ten times further into the future than the previous one, spanning, eventually, four billion years into the future. Pretty much all other science fiction is, therefore, merely "filling in the gaps". The incredible thing about Olaf Stapledon's book is his startling prescience and ability to accurately predict World History up into the 21st Century, including the fall of the League of Nations and the rise and fall of its replacement, the United Nations; the creation and detonation of the Atomic Bomb; the rise and fall of the United States. This latter should cause much hilarity when, if the "Sci Fi Masterworks" version is put in front of the class, in the context of reading Stephen Baxter's foreword, where Mr Baxter (a sci-fi author to be avoided at all costs), basically splutters his polite indignation at Stapledon's "obvious mistake".

    The second book must be Asimov's "The End of Eternity". It is again one of the defining books of Asimov's career, dealing with the consequences of Time Travel and hinting at the background behind the "Foundation" series. One of the key things to note in the book is the use of the word "Computer" as a title, like "Professor". Very few people now remember that the word "Computer" was originally given to "one who performs computation". Computer Harkan, the lead character of the book, is the person given the unbelievably responsible job of "computing" the "minimal necessary change" to a historical timeline that will result in the desired changes to the future _without_ causing other drastic side-effects. Eventually, Computer Harkan meets some of future humanity who explain things to him... I won't say more - it's a fascinating book, and quite short.

    The third book I'd put on the list would be: "Lord of Light", by Roger Zelazny. In this book, a reasonable and perfectly plausible explanation is given as to how the old "Indian Gods and Legends" were considered to "perform magic", whereas in fact, just like Arthur C Clarke said famously, "any superior technology is indistinguishable from magic".

    Other than that, I'd say that it was about authors.

    Asimov. Asimov's Foundation series is very hard going, as are pretty much all of his books except those about "Robby the Robot", which, coauthored with his wife, are really quite fun. Also, the "detective series" novels are absolutely fascinating, but very dry, take getting used to. If there's one at all that has to be read, I would recommend the one where Isaac Bailey, a human, is called for to investigate a murder on the world Solaria, where the total number of humans (extended lifespans) is something like a million (50,000 acres is a small estate); the number of robots per human measures 1,000 to 1; the concept of "seeing" someone involves 3D Trimensional viewing (holograms), and it's part-way through the book that we discover that Solarians are utterly reviled by the concept of physical human contact. Later on we discover that the whole murder has been a setup (by a robot! despite the 3 laws!) in order to determine which of the species of humans is most suitable for robots to encourage to expand out into the galaxy. As a result, this book is again one of THE defining books behind the "Foundation" series (which is itself pretty dry and heavy reading).

    Moving on from that, the books commissioned by the Asimov Trust are much more readable, such as the "Caliban" series, and "Forward the Foundation" which is in fact by Greg Bear. I very much actually enjoyed the books about the "No Law" robot, Caliban. Caliban was an experiment to see if a robot would develop its own laws, if it was given a brain on which the infamous "Three Laws" were NOT imprinted. The exper

  454. Freudian Slip by Dareth · · Score: 1

    You know a Freudian Slip is when you say one thing and you mean your mother!

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  455. oh dammit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    every time I see Science Fiction and Fantasy mentioned in the same breath I get this urge to kill, fantasy is modern fairy stories powered by magic, Science Fiction is potentials and possibilities, warnings and explanations of the more bizarre aspects of reality and science, I just cringe when it gets lumped in with Unicorns and magical swords.

    I just don`t understand why people can`t see they do not have anything in common, even in the cases where "a sufficiently advanced science would be indistinguishable from magic", it still IS science and not magic, there`s a huge difference imo, one is reality forged into new forms by the will of man, and one is man forged into new forms by an alternate reality, please, please, please, if you must do this, then don`t lump them together as parts of the same thing, they have almost nothing in common, please distinguish between the two.

  456. Soft Sciences in Fiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Consider including a sub-genre of the sort of book that George Stewart's Earth Abides offers. It is not strictly science fiction as it does not include anything alien, or truly technological. It is an alternative reality wherein humans are analyzed under extreme conditions much like the British Survivors series on the tele.

    It is great literature and speaks to the human condition. It does not need gadgets and gizmos. It might be looked at as science fiction in the soft sciences vein. Sociology, communication, history, anthropology, psychology, and more, become the focus of such stories. The hard science is interesting and intriguing, but HOW we deal with the knowledge is really the underlying heart of sci-fi, as Rod Serling used to tell us waaaay back in a past that is only now reachable by the time travel offered in an electron vacuum tube.

  457. After "No Child Left Behind" by bodland · · Score: 1

    better start with "My Pet Goat in Space."

  458. Flash Fiction Has Many Advantages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Flash fiction is a story of 1000 words or less. Some publishers cap it at other sizes, as you can imagine: 500 or 300 words are typical. There is quite a bit of interest lately in flash fiction and many mainstream speculative fiction print and online magazines publish it. I think this may be of particular interest for a high school course because the stories may be read quickly, and more importantly, the length is tenable for student writing exercises. The limited length requires good writing skills and the ability to judge what are the most important elements of the story.

    Two great resources for readers and writers looking for publishers of interest are Ralan.org and Duotrope.com. They have searchable databases of publishers. Ralan organizes their publishers by payment class: pro markets, semi-pro, etc, and some special classes, such as their flash/twitter section. (Twitterzines publish stories that fit in a single tweet!)

    Ralan has about 30 flash/tweet-only publishers. Some notables are: pro markets (as defined by the Science Fiction & Fanstasy Writers of America): Flash Fiction Online. Semi-Pro and Paying markets: Flash Quake, Flash Me and Vestal Review. Many of the pro print and online magazines listed at the SFWA site also publish flash fiction, along with longer forms. Thaumatrope is the most well-know twitterzine.

    Links: FlashFictionOnline.com, FlashQuake.org, FlashMe.wingedhalo.com, VestalReview.net, http://thaumatrope.greententacles.com,
    http://www.sfwa.org/join-us/sfwa-membership-requirements/#shortfiction

  459. Teach em to Think by fast+turtle · · Score: 1

    The first effort I think would be to take a well known story (Foundation/Time Enough for Love) and tear into the plot itself and explain why/how it works. Is the story itself important? Maybe but you want something that's recognized as being a strong story with solid plot elements and this could work with any genre. Fiction in general with stories such as "To Kill a Mockingbird", that I was required to read during High School, were formulative of my wide reading interests. Prior to that, I restricted myself to very narrow set of genre's, mainly of Sci-Fi/Fantasy but began branching out into many different directions such as War and Peace, Hardy Boys Series, Tom Switf, Nancy Drew, even Harlequin stories if they're well written. I even started on Tom Clancy, a few Koontz and many other authors and no longer make the distinction between Sci-Fi/Fantasy/Techno-Thriller as they're all Fiction.

    --
    Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
  460. L. Ron Hubbard by Kettle+Face · · Score: 1

    What? No BattleField Earth?

  461. Too delimiting by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

    But the characters add a necessary extra dimension. Niven has always been a boring writer. Heinlein's characters, although too often speaking for himself and his changing, perhaps evolving, perhaps self-rationalizing, beliefs and opinions.

    The characters in Stirling's Drakon add spice to a classic of SF opera (in the truest sense), while the characterizations are most necessary and important in all of Banks' books. Cultures do, in fact, change, and those characters, when well-written, exhibit those changes. And Douglas Adams' characters are simply the best in comedic SF with an unusually dry wit! (Recommend BBC's original (circa '80s) broadcast series of A Hitchhicker's Guide.... -- hands-down the best.)

  462. Re:i'm not trying to be a troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but while you're teaching high school students science fiction, kids in other high schools are learning actual science

    Science Fiction is one of the primary influences for all young scientists. The kids that sign up for a class like this are the ones that are also taking Advanced Physics and Calculus in High School.

  463. My suggestions by ananamouse · · Score: 1

    Stranger in a Strange Land, The Stars My Destination, When Worlds Collide/After Worlds Collide, and the entire last season of Startrek Voyager.

  464. HYPERION by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By Dan Simmons. If that book doesn't belong in a sci-fi lit class, then I don't know what does.

  465. What should belong? Obviously!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is obvious that all speeches by Al Gore and the Global Warming fools should be there.

  466. Another point by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

    Poul Anderson wrote great SF, but frequently some of his fiction were era-based (as in the constant Cold War struggle extrapolated to the far future) while only a limited amount of his fiction would stand the test of future reading (such as Operation Chaos, or the short story preceding that, Operation Changeling). Admas' work was very futuristic, and covered a variety of scientific topics, making it qualify both as SF and comedy. The other works are applicable to today, while so much of what is considered "classic" SF is rather outdated, to say the least. And nothing, absolutely nothing, compares to the future fiction as exemplified by Iain Banks' The Player of Games --- he hit every target in that novel.

  467. The Sentinel by BiggoronSword · · Score: 1

    The Sentinel, by Arthur C. Clarke. This short story is the basis for 2001 A Space Odyssey and the other novels in the "Space Odyssey" series.

    --
    interactive hologram, or it didn't happen.
  468. Books with some meat by slodan · · Score: 1

    Many others have listed "fun" books. While many of them are good, others fall into the pulp category. (This is my favorite category, but isn't suited for a decent lit course.) If you are looking for something with a little more meat, then these have artistic merit.

    Science Fiction
    The Book of the New Sun, by Gene Wolfe
    Dune, by Frank Herbert
    Glasshouse, by Charles Stross
    Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, by Philip K. Dick
    The Forever War, by Joe Haldeman
    Cat's Cradle, by Kurt Vonnegut

    Fantasy
    Watership Down, by Richard Adams
    Something Wicked This Way Comes, by Ray Bradbury
    Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, by Lewis Carroll
    The Dark Tower series, by Steven King
    Reaper Man or Making Money, by Terry Pratchett

    1. Re:Books with some meat by Creepy · · Score: 1

      lol - I really wouldn't include Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? in books with meat - I didn't find the story particularly engaging and it seemed like the main storylines diverged a lot, mostly into Mercerism (a religion the film thankfully left out). That was one of the rare cases where I liked the movie (Blade Runner) far better than the book. VALIS or Ubik would be better PKD choices, IMO - those are two of his better books. If you wanted to go with the "I was totally f*cked up when I wrote this, go with the Three Stigmata one (yeah, he claims he didn't use LSD until afterward... the man generated LSD in his glands...) or WSB's Naked Lunch (who absolutely was on vast quantities of LSD). I'd probably shy away from Dune myself, not because the story is bad, but more because I found it a bit overlong.

      Personally, I'd choose "The Diamond Age" by Neal Stephenson for a cyberpunk/dystopia book over Androids - great story and doesn't feel dated like a lot of Gibson novels.

      The funny thing about your list is I've read every book except Glasshouse in your Sci-fi list (for that matter, I've never heard of it) and only read Alice's Adventures in Wonderland in your fantasy list (but at least know the titles). I've read every author on the fantasy list except Richard Adams - just not those books. My Fantasy and Science Fiction class in college included On a Pale Horse, which is a good example of a modern fantasy work. I personally prefer Gaiman, but that weird taxi driver section in the middle of American Gods might be a bit to graphic... Ananzi Boys would work, though (Gods was better, IMO).

  469. 1984 is reality --- not SF!!!!! by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
    I agree that 1984 is a MUST READ, but not in the category of future fiction, as 1984 is something we are now living. As most can readily see, the USA, UK, China, Pakistan and Mexico are quickly converging to the same form of fascist-type oligarchy (or corporate fascist state/police state). The differences, to anyone who has been paying attention, are simply too obvious and startling!

    Re-read 1984, and try to differentiate that from today?

  470. Excellent points by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

    Good point! I recall escaping the boredom of school by reading all of Heinlein's novels....

  471. It depends... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would depend on how you would organize your instruction...by chronology, by genre (those sub genres within sci-fi), by theme, by author...but definitely I would include from classic to contemporary. Include short stories, novellas, novels, scripts, poems. Include authors that write for young adults. Include authors from various cultures.

      If I were to teach this class, I would definitely include:

    CatÂs Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut...my favorite required reading in high school...issues are still relevant today and could spark great discussions

    Uglies by Scott Westerfeld...my latest favorite in the YA field!...would appeal to both male and female students and such an important topic!

    Bellwether by Connie Willis

    EnderÂs Game by Orson Scott Card

    The Giver by Lois Lowry...may be an easy read for high school but that depends...may be okay for Grade 9.

  472. Outstanding point! by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
    Outstanding points and exceptions taken, rh775, spot on, good citizen!

    You get rated today's 10 points! Lottery, anyone?

  473. Science Fiction Through the Ages by penguinstorm · · Score: 1

    Frankenstein.
    Alice in Wonderland.
    The Time Machine.
    20,000 Leagues.
    Neuromancer (a great example of how science fiction is of its moment...Neuromancer has no cell phones, as they were rare and Gibson hadn't imagined them.

    I'd include some Phillip K. Dick and a work by Robert Heinlein as well. The former because I like to screw kids up mentally as much as I can, the latter because while I've never liked much Heinlein its place in history is undoubted.

    --
    Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
  474. Re:Robert Heinlein! NOT! by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
    For female authors, go for the classic Joanna Russ and today's M.M. Buckner (Watermind).

    But you've got to keep them interested, so go with Banks' The Player of Games (cannot recommend this book too much, it is simply the BEST example of future fiction around) along with Stirling's Drakon, again, a real action yarn and classic SF opera.

  475. And End to Porn by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

    Fantastic thought pattern. Why, if we just force kids to study PORN in schools that should put an end to that once and forever. Now why didn't I think of that?????

    1. Re:And End to Porn by ZekoMal · · Score: 1

      Because looking at pictures/videos or reading sexual material is exactly the same as reading a plot driven book that doesn't actively motivate your biological drive to mate?

    2. Re:And End to Porn by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      No, because there are actually some subjects studied in school (math, computer science, history, sciences, etc.) which inspire enthusiasm and excitement.....

    3. Re:And End to Porn by ZekoMal · · Score: 1

      But not at a majority acceptance. Enter any classroom, and you may find one or two students that actively enjoy their class; but the rest of the students may be bored, even going so far as to utterly hate it. You don't inspire interest by jamming something down someone's throat: if they don't like it, you can't make them like it (even under pain of failing).

  476. Make sure to include Shelly and Asimov by Virus+Hunter · · Score: 1

    Mary Shelly's Frankenstein should definitely make the list. Frankenstein is considered by many people to be the first Science Fiction novel, and it maintains its relevancy by posing many of the ethical questions that Science faces today. You should also include Isaac Asimov's Foundation series, at least the first three books. The Foundation series discusses the fate of empires, alludes to humanities over dependence on technology, critiques religion, and examines human nature. I'm a big fan of anything Card puts together, particularly Ender's game, a book that examines war, ferocity, and even genocide. Also look for some short stories. Asimov has a number of short stories. I really like how he will often challenge our notion of life with his stories on Robots.

  477. Guilty of Literature by Paul+Johnson · · Score: 1

    Check out the book "Terry Pratchett: Guilty of Literature". Its a book of critical essays on the writings of comic fantasy author Terry Pratchett. It would be a good way of introducing the class to ideas of literary criticism within the context of SF.

    --
    You are lost in a twisty maze of little standards, all different.
  478. Ask a Librarian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't need the internet. You need a librarian. As a teen librarian I am happy to recommend the following YA novels that I think would be appropriate and popular with a high school audience.

    A Great and Terrible Beauty by Libba Bray
    Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
    Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins
    Little Brother by Cory Doctrow
    Among the Hidden by Margaret Peterson Haddix
    The adoration of Jenna Fox by Mary E. Pearson
    The Alchemyst: The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel by Micheal Scott
    Uglies by Scott Westerfeld
    The Original Grim fairy tales
    Norse Mythology, Greek Mythology, Asian Mythology - since this is the basis of many fantasy stories.

  479. Little Brother by Mydnight · · Score: 1

    DEFINITELY include Little Brother -- Even though it's aimed at young adults (16-17 years old), it can keep the attention of any reading level. Every time I read that book, I end up staying awake half the night, and every time I read the book I come away with some other project I want to try ;)

  480. Re:Too Much $Fav_Author by irelayer · · Score: 1

    I agree with what you are saying. In my opinion, high school lit curricula of all flavors overemphasizes novels and underempahsizes other forms of prose, like short stories and poems. Look, you have to be able to relate the material to kids who don't, for the most part, care about it and don't, for the most part, have the attention span or the built-up knowledge about the world required to read even a modestly paced work of genre fiction and tie together the threads to extract the underlying ideas.

    Additionally, most of these kids do not have the intellectual stamina to read through what we might think is "influential" literature and distill the meaning from it, because a lot of these books can be fantastically misinterpreted. You even run the risk of the kids not understanding what they are reading and why its important.

    Some material is influential to us only because we either A) read it growing up, B) were introduced to it in college, or C) read it a few times and think its "important" but didn't really enjoy it. Avoid these types of traps. I know I read both "1984" and "Brave New World" and while I enjoyed them, I think they were chosen because they were "influential" rather than enjoyable. A good introduction to what genre fiction is supposed to be about will avoid the obvious ones that kids already have preconceptions about.

    Short stories that you can put into a modern, current events type context in concert with a few book reports where the kids do a write-up of books that are chosen from a book list, with very narrow discussion points is I think the best choice. Also choose 1 or 2 books that everyone will discuss in groups throughout the semester. Personally I would recommend "Childhood's End" by Arthur C. Clarke as the first novel. Its a quick read and very enjoyable.

    Additonally, Philip K. Dick has not been mentioned nearly enough here. I'd say Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? would be great, because comparing it to Blade Runner (perhaps watching the movie first) is pretty valuable. Also, an introduction to cyberpunk might be a good idea considering the world we live in today. Snowcrash might be fun.

    Tolkien...yes everyone is now intimately familiar with Tolkien in their minds (IE Viggo Mortensen, Ian McKellen, and Elijah Wood with a bunch of special effects). Avoid at all costs, lest you want to present what kids might think of as an "adult" Harry Potter. It really takes an entire semester of reading Tolkien and talking about the basis of his work to really get a lot out of it academically speaking. Kids are perfectly capable of reading the books and watching the movies themselves.

    Regardless, I agree with a lot of people here who emphasize short stories. I think it should be the basis for ANY high school literature course. For instance:

    Philip K. Dick "The Golden Man"
    Harlan Ellison "Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman", "I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream" or anything by Ellison really.
    Arthur C. Clarke "Encounter in the Dawn"
    One or two stories from "The Martian Chronicles", because they really are individual short stories.

    It might also be of interest to read movie screenplays or TV scripts. "AI: Artificial Intelligence" and "The City On The Edge of Forever" are fantastic for this purpose.

    Anyway, good luck!

    -IR

  481. Do NOT use Dune ! by meerling · · Score: 1

    Due to bizarre circumstances that were not under my control, I changed High Schools 8 times.
    Every time I changed schools, a teacher forced me to reread Dune, even though I was able to quote page and paragraph.
    (After a while, I just started putting other books in the Dune jacket cover.)

  482. At the college level.. by hazydave · · Score: 1

    .. over a summer break, I took a course in Science Fiction and Fantasy at Rutgers University (transfers to CMU). It was a pretty decent course, even for a life-long reader of both genres, and not even close to being a "gut course", though I did score a 100% on the final.

    One of the principles the professor had in mind -- if you could read and understand the book all on your own, it doesn't belong in the classroom. She approached the class as one might expect of a professor in any other sort of literature class. A couple of the titles we covered: "The Marriages Between Zones Three, Four and Five (Canopus in Argos: Archives)" by Doris Lessing, and "Riddley Walker" by Russell Hoban. I probably would not have selected either, both were interesting and worth a read. High School level, I dunno... you may want to tailor this course more as an introduction to the genres, and offer up more classic than challenging material. I'd make sure to include something modern... you can't go wrong with Neal Stephenson, Stephen Baxter, Neil Gaiman, or William Gibson. I think you have to represent at least some of the more challenging "classic" writers: Clarke, Lovecraft, Verne, Vonnegut, Asimov, Heinlein, Wells, Dick, Bradbury, Ellison... on the mostly Sci-Fi side. For fantasy, Le Guinn, Tolkien, Zelazny, Anthony, Pratchett, etc.

    I wouldn't likely offer up more than one book or short story from the same author within such a class, and while I'd like to offer an independent reading project in that context, the likelihood that over 50% of the kids would produce one "Harry Potter" volume or another (I did finally read them, last July) might have me slightly worried for the future of our culture.

    One reason I did well on the final... a large part of that was answering the question "what is the difference between Science Fiction and Fantasy". I suspect many readers here would have done well on that final, but this would be a good thing to ask at the end of the course. And perhaps a good indication of how well you did, educating these kids. My answer was certainly vetted by the fine literary folks at Rutgers, and 25-something years later, I am currently working on a novel that attempts to confuse the issue. It's always more fun when you can break things!

    --
    -Dave Haynie
  483. Start with some of the classics and work modern. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jules Verne
    H.G. Wells
    Isaac Asimov
    Robert A. Heinlein
    Ray Bradbury's THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES
    Douglas Adams

    Then I'd allow the students to explore the wealth of titles and pick there own to read and report on. There are so many good authors out now I don't have enough time to read everything that is available.

  484. Suggestions from a College Level version class... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I took this class in college and there were a couple of things they had us read that I would otherwise have not been introduced to. I remember these all being fairly safe as well.

    Space Trilogy - C. S. Lewis - while most are familiar with his fantasy Narnia series, until this class, I wasn't even aware that he wrote a sci-fi series as well. I think we read two of the three (fairly quick reads) for the class. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Trilogy

    Once and Future King - T. H. White - great as an introductory fantasy piece. Classically tells the story of King Arthur. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Once_and_Future_King

    Cat's Cradle - Kurt Vonnegut - I'd never been introduced to Vonnegut until read this sci-fi book, but I entirely fell in love with his writing after. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat's_Cradle

    The Silmarillion - J. R. R. Tolkein - No not the entire thing, just a couple of a selections. It was a good way to introduce him and include him as important in the field, without having to read (or for many re-read) the well-known works. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silmarillion

    Some of the other "classics" like Bradbury are likely already being introduced in other HS Lit classes, so you may just want to mention them, and/or look at short story pieces.

    If you can get away with more adult-themed reading, you might want to look at something Heinlein. I enjoyed Time Enough for Love, but it's not light reading - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Enough_for_Love

    And...

    In today's day and age, I'd suggest finding a way to introduce the readers to George R. R. Martin - A Game of Throne's might be a bit too hefty - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Game_of_Thrones so you can consider his two prequel short stories to the Song of Fire and Ice pieces, The Hedge Knight and The Sworn Sword from the Tales of Dunk & Egg - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Dunk_and_Egg

    Good luck!

  485. War with the Newts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Karel ÄOEapek âoeWar with the Newtsâ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_with_the_Newts

    It has it all.

  486. Alien Morality by Rawrlo · · Score: 1

    I think Tolkein is a bit overrated as far as educational value goes. The books are too long and I don't see the themes being that interesting to discuss or write about. Sacrifice & temptation? There's just not much to debate about.

    Ender's Game is a shorter read and much more interesting for it's political and moral commentary. A selection of some of the short stories form Asimov's "I Robot" and Bradburry's "Martian Chronicles" might be good.

    I really enjoyed "Heart of the Comet" http://amzn.com/0553763415. It has some interesting topics. Possible essay questions:

    • If human kind begins to genetically modify itself do you think the modified people will experience discrimination and resentment from the natural humans?
    • Do you believe the earth government was justified in trying to destroy the comet? Why or why not?

    I think the best Sci-Fi uses differences in alien values to examine our own values and to discuss morality.

    Xenocide in the Ender's Game series is one of these. Did the aliens commit murder or was it something else? Does their intent and ignorance free them from guilt? When Ender killed the alien was it murder?

    Also, "The Sparrow" by Mary Doria Russell. http://amzn.com/0449912558 This one is pretty heavy. Read it if you haven't. It involves a Jesuit priest making first contact with aliens.

    "Fleet of Worlds" by Larry Niven & Edward Lerner

    • Themes on slavery, natural human rights, morality.
  487. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have seen relatively few references to Asimov...especially with regards to the "3 laws of robotics" which are seriously being considered in today's society, and even being expanded upon by MIT grads. Many of the above mentioned authors and works I would consider to be works of pure fantasy/fiction, but there is NOTHING that I can see that heralded the future so much as Asimov's "3 Laws". Oh, and Clarke's early work, also worthy of study. 'Nuff said!

  488. Magic vs Engineering by geek2k5 · · Score: 1

    "One man's magic is another man's engineering.." (Heinlein)

    They are the same with the exception of what drives the 'technology'. Fantasy uses magic to get things done. SF uses technology. But both explore 'what if' conditions.

  489. Taking literature seriously... by SpaceAmoeba · · Score: 1

    I would choose stories that fit one or both of two criteria: great literature and/or of particular historical importance (either in the development of the genre or its place in wider culture). I have not read much fantasy, so my list would at the outset be more science fiction heavy.

    With these criteria, the following would make my list:

    "Gulliver's Travels"
    Possibly the grandfather of science fiction and fantasy and also good literature by most accounts.

    "Frankenstein"
    Very important and influential early science fiction and a beginning of a strain of fiction looking at the dangers of science, even if it maybe of questionable literary value.

    "The Time Machine"
    A good early attempt to imagine the where humanity is going and one of the first time travel stories.

    "Lilith" (George Macdonald)
    Difficult, but underrated late-19th century fantasy that influenced other writers, including C.S. Lewis. Visionary and profound.

    "Brave New World"
    Another attempt to imagine where humanity is headed, and arguably more interesting and plausible than Wells' attempt. Classic dystopian story.

    "Out of the Silent Planet" (C. S. Lewis)
    An imaginative vision of Mars (that of course does not hold up today in terms of accuracy, but still an interesting vision of an alien planet) and a fascinating exploration of what it might be like to encounter alien beings who do not know evil. Solid literature.

    "Lord of the Rings"
    Father of modern fantasy and great literature. Maybe a bit long for a class, but at least excerpts should be read. Another possibility would be Tolkien's short story "Smith of Whooton Major".

    "Universe" (Heinlein)
    Not great literature, but imaginative and containing numerous science fiction conventions (science vs. religion, rotating spacecraft, mutants, paradigm shifts...).

    "1984"
    Obviously important influence on wider culture and society. Excellent example of dystopian fiction and decent literature.

    "Surface Tension" (James Blish)
    Okay, this is debatable. It is a personal favorite even though its not great literature. A short story about microscopic humanoids. To me it is a great example of one of the things science fiction is best at: paradigm shifting.

    Unfortunately I have not read enough contemporary science fiction and what I have read does not make the list. "Stranger in a Strange Land" might be a consideration for its cultural influence and its imaginative exploration of alien morality, but its not very good literature and the last half loses interest. Lovecraft should probably have at least a short story on the list, but I have not read enough to be able to say which story.

    I agree with others that science fiction is much better suited to short stories, so additions to the list would more likely be of that type.

    Although often fun to read, I have not read anything by Clarke, Asimov, or Bradbury that I would consider of satisfactory literary value for such a class (that includes their short stories). Although notably, I have not read "Fahrenheit 451". Robert Jordan does not belong on the list. Period.

    Two other stories that could be considered, but are very difficult:

    "Voyage to Arcturus" (David Lindsay)
    Early 20th century science fiction dealing with the role of suffering in human (and alien) life. Filled with memorable and often symbolic visions.

    "That Hideous Strength" (C.S. Lewis)
    The last book of Lewis' space trilogy which actually takes place entirely on Earth. Deals with a lot of issues both theological and ethical, including the misuse of science. Includes a disembodied head, which is a common convention these days.

    Anyway, this is my first stab at a list.

    1. Re:Taking literature seriously... by SpaceAmoeba · · Score: 1

      One other possible addition: I suspect "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" belongs, though I have not read it.

  490. Re:Stranger in a Strange Land will get you fired by JBoelke · · Score: 1

    Sex with everyone, drugs, making fun of organized religion sex while on drugs in church. This book will get you fired. Check out if you school library has it first, then if the book title comes up say how will the story is excellent the subjects might offend some high school students and their parents, but it is in the school library. Watch kids run to the library to read a dangerous book. Smile.

  491. My suggested readings by the+Gray+Mouser · · Score: 1

    First off, is this a one semester class or two?

    1)Dune - Frank Herbert
    2)20,000 Leagues Under the Sea - Jules Verne
    3)Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep - Philip Dick
    4)The Hobbit (alt choice: The Silmarillion) - JRR Tolkien
    5)The Eye of the World - Robert Jordan
    6)Le Morte d'Arthur - Sir Thomas Mallory

    Those should give students a lot to think about and discuss while being interesting enough to actually read at the same time (I still remember slugging through The Fountainhead in high school).

  492. Re:Too Much $Fav_Author by thornybranch · · Score: 1

    It sounds like you were granted the opportunity to read a lot of great sci-fi and fantasy books at a young age. That's great. Not every kid is so lucky. There's actually a spectrum of personalities between geek and jock, and there are in-betweeners with great and open minds that aren't exposed to the same material and guidance that you were. True, very few people on the extreme-jock-end of the spectrum would be interested in the class, or the material, and they simply wouldn't take it. It's also true that some kids who take the class hands down(geeks), would already be familiar with a good chunk of the material. This is no reason to write off the class for everyone else.

    Also, I fail to see why is it important for high-schoolers to be tested on the emergence and classification of genres. Genres rarely have any significance besides marketing and general orientation. The classification of sub-genres can be fun, and people take pride in their "Excuse me, I make house music, not drum and bass" attitude but is utterly useless in relation to experience of the underlying content of any art-form.

  493. All sf is Political by jvv62 · · Score: 1

    I would suggest that all sf involves politics at some level. Heinlein is political as is Asimov. They are not necessarily as obviously political as L. Neil Smith or Orwell, but they definitely say a lot about what is good in government and society and what is bad. None of Tolkein's good guys live in autocracies. Even the Kings of Gondor had to pay attention to their people. Remember that a lot of people consider the s in sf to stand for speculative, rather than science. The key thing is to think about which facet of the genre you wish the students to consider.

    --
    -John Van Voorhis
  494. Learn to Write by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    If you really want them to learn about Science Fiction/Fantasy, make the final assignment to write a short story in either genre. Only when you create it do you really start to understand it.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  495. Holes with teeth by Cassander · · Score: 1

    I should think the fear of "falling into a hole - especially a hole with teeth" wouldn't be confined to the male gender. But hey, maybe I'm wrong...?

    I bet the professor in question subscribes to a Freudian worldview. Whereas normal individuals see a hole with teeth as... a hole with teeth, Freud would see it as some sort of vagina monster (making it a "male" fear).

    Freud was the master of a phenomenon called "projection", where he assumes that everyone else is fucked up in the same way that he is. It would be damn amusing if not for the tragedy of the fact that his flawed introspection-based ideas were so influential that they set back the entire profession of psychology by 100 years.

    Sorry Freud, just because you have Oedipus issues doesn't mean everyone does. Logic fail.

    --
    Knowledge != Intelligence
  496. Answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will answer your question with a question.

    What belongs on the tip of your penis?

  497. while others here offer debate on authors.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I might suggest an attempt to order the class more stringently. Over the course of a school year, I can conceivably see 4 sections of the class, which can be divided into your major topics: i.e. - "What is SciFi?" "What makes SciFi Literature?" "Explore the social criticism of SciFi (war, social structure, aging, liberty vs. responsibility, etc.)" "Inter-media study (lit into film, comics, games, intertextuality and etc. and vice-versa)" Three or Four books to each section would be appropriate and allow a development of theory, comparison, and/or creative critical thinking. Don't forget to include published critical works such as essays, etc. to guide development.

    This will then be the kind of class that teaches children to actually think rather than regurgitate by rote. After learning these basic steps in this class, they can apply them to any literature, and even impress their future college professor (which I will be at about the same time they're starting college) rather than bore me to death.

  498. Key Figure: Orwell by hol · · Score: 1

    What I find most ironic is how few people in the USA and the UK are really familiar with the works of Orwell. "1984" is an outstanding Sci-Fi book, although it's written as a narrative of the misery of oppressive politics, supported by (what was then) technology that could only be described as a fantasy.

    For lighter reading, and lest you be accused of creating an oppressive atmosphere, one of the Douglas Adams like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy should also be on the menu.

    --
    - - - Non Caffeine Drink or Drink Error
  499. Re:Unless you want students trying to fuck their m by sabs · · Score: 1

    Read his early stuff.
    Starship Troopers
    Farmer in the Sky
    Tunnel in the Sky
    Podkayne of Mars
    Waldo Inc (nto my favorite but good)

    Glory Road is decent.
    Farnham's Freehold is VERY interesting not sure it's good but it makes you think and Its an interesting view on Race relations and their consequences for the future.

    Job, Number of the Beast, I Will Fear No Evil are all Heinlein's the world would be a better place if everyone was polyamorous. Though I remember liking Job, and Friday.

    That being said, I think Heinlein had some good points in Friday about marriages being handled like legal contracts.
    Heinlein IS good, but I think he got a bit carried away with sex, drugs and rock'n'roll.

  500. Re:Ursula K. Le Guin, especially the Earthsea Tril by Katalyst23 · · Score: 1

    Another great book by her is The Lathe of Heaven.

    --
    It's turtles all the way down!
  501. No tell hotel by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

    I'm sure "not being able to tell" is the norm for someone like yourself.

  502. How about C. S. Lewis for Fantasy? by FurtiveGlancer · · Score: 1

    "Out of the Silent Planet" will stretch a high school student vocabulary, but it should maintain interest. It will also sell well in conservative areas as being from a known Christian author. It also leads into a trilogy of increasingly harder reads with "Perelandra," and "That Hideous Strength."

    --
    Invenio via vel creo
  503. not enough love for Gibson in this thread by converter · · Score: 1

    William Gibson's early stuff is classic. Burning Chrome is a nice collection of his short stories. The Dune series is a masterwork. Stephen Baxter writes sci-fi that really examines how technology has, and will continue to change what it means to be human.

  504. keeping in mind the context by RaymondRuptime · · Score: 1

    I love questions like this! Thanks. It has produced some interesting answers, and has been good for a trip down memory lane. As good as everyone's answers have been, they have not all been focused on the context of the question.

    This is for a one-semester high school class, we must remember--not a college class, and not for a degree in SF&F. The object is not to make sure that they read everything that everyone must read in the genre, but to (1) introduce the genre, (2) teach about the genre, and (3) whet the appetite for learning and reading more. In addition to the limited time that students have to devote to each class in high school, one must also bear in mind the limited budget for purchasing materials.

    With that in mind, I'd put forward three notions: short stories are the best way to introduce readers to a variety of different authors and and archetypes; anthologies are a cost-effective way to deliver short stories; you can't cover it all. To this last point, I would say that there are different strands of fantasy, and that you are only going to touch on the ones that closely overlap science fiction; mainstream fantasy (including, much as I love them, Harry Potter and LOTR) needs to be another class.

    The problem with anthologies, however, is that by-and-large they stink out loud. I suppose you have to purchase through your district, and they have preferred publishers, so you'd have to see what they have to offer--and you may be stuck with them. I poked around to see what was commercially available, and I admit I was pretty unimpressed. Of those that are in print, if I were teaching I suppose I would order Science Fiction: A Historical Anthology (Galaxy Books, edited by by Eric S. Rabkin) because it has some width of selection and includes some old classics, but I'd wish that I could do better. And maybe you have to not do an anthology... or supplement it with a few novels or collections.

    Keeping in mind your context, then, if I were selecting a few additional novels for a one-semester introductory high school class (with limited time and attention spans), I would draw from this list [that is still in print]:
    Asimov, I, Robot
    Card, Ender's Game
    Clarke, Childhood's End
    Clarke, Rendezvous with Rama
    LeGuin, The Left Hand of Darkness
    Niven, Ringworld
    Niven and Pournelle, Inferno
    Sawyer, Flashforward

    Mind you this is not my list of the "best" or "must-read", and is not as diverse a set of authors as I would wish, but simply what I think would work for your class--what is accessible at their age, and what makes for good class discussions. I would specifically not include excellent novels like 2001, Snow Crash, Red Mars, etc., because they are not quite old enough to appreciate the themes, literary adroitness, and so on. You and I might have really groked 2001 in high school, but the average high school student today probably would struggle with it.

    (Also, having a tie-in with a popular movie or TV show that you can show in class will help those who are more visual or aural learners is helpful.)

    Hope this helps.

  505. Re:Stranger in a Strange Land will get you fired by ZuchinniOne · · Score: 1

    I like the way you think ... it would be really funny to have kids going home to their parents and saying that they just don't grok them :)

  506. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just remember to choose works that exemplify good writing. None of Neal Stephenson's rubbish.

  507. Wasp... by conureman · · Score: 1

    by Eric Frank Russell.
    One of the best. What could happen if the government at war was led to believe that terrorists/subversives were at large in the homeland? ...

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  508. I doubt anyone will ever read this ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    as it is posted on a 5 day old story, but: while everyone is busy listing their favorite, popular authors, the ones that can actually write are being forgotten. The guy who wrote http://greatsfandf.com/ has a point: it's people like Frank Baum, Mervyn Peake, Jack Vance and Ursula LeGuin that actually wrote fantasy deserving of the name 'literature'.

  509. What is your desired outcome? by kantos · · Score: 1

    Skimming over the posts already here there is a plethora of good Science Fiction and Fantasy out there, however not all of it is literature, nor is all of it appropriate for a high school course. However what you select should be deliberate based on your objectives. Are you seeking?

    • Relevent Social Issues? I would recommend Heinlein for that like many above
    • Moral Struggle? Card does well here
    • Classical Literary and Saga techniques? Tolkien fits the bill
    • Distopia? Heinlein, Card, Orwell among many others mentioned above

    The only other thing I would recommend is not to underestimate the maturity of your students, avoiding material with sexuality or other questionable material is not doing them any favors. Chaucer was the raunchest thing I read in high school and I'm grateful my teacher didn't gloss over it, it made it far more interesting and downright funny than the boring slog it would have been, the same goes for Shakespeare. Select the material you think is most relevent to the outcome you want to achieve regardless of how obscure it might be. However I will make the recommendation many have made above: Use short stories instead of books, most students in high school will blow off reading a book because they have "Better things" to do.

    --
    Any and all content posted above may be ignored, considered irrelevant, or otherwise dismissed.
  510. Wholesale air max shox-bape top leather man Shoes, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Http://www.tntshoes.com

    Attractive!!! JD fusion sport shoes,brand shoes, fashion shoe with competetive price do dropship
    1) Made of superior quality upper materials.
    2) Unique designs, various colors and models are available.
    3) Original packing with box, tags and labels.
    4) Reasonable/competitive price : with the factory price.
    5) Prompt and safe deliverywe will ship the products within 24 hours after the receipt of payment, and they would arrived by DHL, EMS, TNT, FEDEX, DPEX, UPS within 5-7 days.
    6) Payment terms:paypal; T/T. western union, moneygram.
        any questions, feel free to contact me:

    OUR WEBSITE:
                                                            YAHOO:shoppertrade@yahoo.com.cn

                                                                    MSN:shoppertrade@hotmail.com

  511. Fashion! Cool !Sunglasses=DG+Gucci by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

                Welcome TO Our Website: Http://www.tntshoes.com

            we are a prefession online store, you can see more photos and price in our website which is show in the photos.
              pls find the more photos and the price for our product in our website,hellow see our website in the photos attached, on line shipping sotre, selling all kinds of brand new shoes,clothing, handbag,sunglasses,hats etc, if interested please email me by we are selling all brand new handbag, we take paypal as payment, . shoes Nike jordan1-23 $23-$28 free shiping.

      OUR WEBSITE:
                                                            YAHOO:shoppertrade@yahoo.com.cn

                                                                    MSN:shoppertrade@hotmail.com

  512. Advanced tech is "Magic" by lkcl · · Score: 1

    read "Lord of Light" by Roger Zelazny. it illustrates not only that advanced tech is "magic" but the dangers of portraying onesself as a "God" as a result of access to such advanced tech.

  513. Three suggestions... by zaratustra27 · · Score: 1
    • 'Fahrenheith 451': There are other dystopian books but I find this one too similar to our current reality, with giant TVs and some sort of reality shows, people who kills himself/others because of boredom or repressed anger and specially a society that doesn't read.
    • Asimov's 'The Last Question': This is an absolutelly shocking story and it may be interesting to rescue his ideas about computers' future developments and see it's not necessary to make acute predictions in order to write good sci-fi.
    • 'Red Mars' by Kim S. Robinson is one of the best recent sci-fi novels
  514. Do U See Cheap Wholesaler Enyce Jean,Burberry Jack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

              Http://www.tntshoes.com

    Hi friend, we are a prefession online store, you can see more photos and price in our website which is show in the photos
    we take paypal as payment, . shoes Nike jordan1-23 $28-42 free shiping. hellow our website is see our website in the photos attached, we are a online shopping mall, we have all kinds of brand new shoes,clothing, handbag,sunglasses,hats etc for sale, all of our product is best quality but the price is so cheap. You can find the more photos and the price for our product in our website, if interested please email me by we are selling all brand new handbag,

    OUR WEBSITE:
                                                                Http://www.tntshoes.com

                                                            YAHOO:shoppertrade@yahoo.com.cn

                                                                    MSN:shoppertrade@hotmail.com