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actually, their file-format is frozen, so i don't think that will be a huge problem. see their web page.

meneer de koekepeer

Monty

Monty

But if I had any money they would certainly be donated to the Xiph.org Foundation

Free Software is certainly a good thing, and a worthy cause, but open formats for exchange of ideas, thoughs and arts is even more important. Without it, me may end up in a situation where an Evil Corp[tm] can control what you can say.

The third release candidate (rc3) is going to be released very soon. Read here.

But I'd advise you not to worry about "1.0". The current release is very stable, you can use it already, no fear.

Here it is!!!

For those Free Software enthusiasts of you out there who don't want to install RealPlayer, the BBC is trialling [bbc.co.uk] Ogg Vorbis [vorbis.com] live audio streams.

For those Free Software enthusiasts of you out there who don't want to install RealPlayer, the BBC is trialling Ogg Vorbis live audio streams. The BBC Radio 4 stream can be found here.
If you use this service, please take the time to tell them that you appreciate their support of open standards as the service is still tentative.

And right you are! No matter what the RIAA does, they will always have to convert the music at some point into the atmospheric vibrations that make up sound. And then I will be able to record these with my microphone at slightly rediced quality and ogg them.

Did you try the obvious solution of encoding without channel coupling, or with lossless channel coupling?

Actually, up until the latest release (RC2), oggenc performed no coupling at all; it just encoded each channel as an independent stream. Nowadays vorbis supports a variety of stereo modes, including two that disable all stereo-separation loss. [Note that stereo modes aren't user-configurable in the released version of oggenc.]

If you compiled the Vorbis source yourself, you may have run into a bug *with old versions of GCC* (up to EGCS 1.1.2/GCC 2.91.*) which leads to Vorbis compiling incorrectly, and producing files that sound like shit.

Check the Vorbis site for more information... the only correction is to upgrade to a more recent version of GCC, or (if you are using RedHat) to download the fixed up RPMs they have created.

CDex has support for Vorbis, although im not sure what version encoder they're using.
You can get CDex from The CDex page
Also there are plugins and an "official" encoder at Vorbis.com

I just read this article about Croteam using it for their next game:

"We did a major change in the sound engine between FE and SE. And its name is Ogg Vorbis. Yeah, that's right, we're using ogg for music playing. In case someone hasn't heard of it yet, Ogg Vorbis (http://www.vorbis.com) is a patent-free, open source audio codec project. Or in english: a music compressor that plainly rocks. Make sure you check it out. We've tried encoding all the music for SE with Oggdrop at 64kbps and the quality was perfect even at such low bitrate. In the final version, since we won't need the extra space, we'll be shipping with 128kbps music tracks, for even higher fidelity. The guys there are really helpful and supportive and the whole project is surprisingly functional already. There are plugins for all major music players and other music programs."

There was nearly the same discussion some month ago at askslashdot, but in fact in was more desktop/en-user focused.

I think there a lots of open-source applications for Win 32 systems (more than it might be good): Ogg Vorbis has utilities for Windows; CDex is a great open-source CD-Ripper/Encoder; and with VirtualDub Windows users have the powerfulst video-editing/capture software.
The list could go on nearly endless just think about all those open-source javaapps (Limewire, JCDSee...) which run under every platform...
X

...but i just cannot fathom WHY the RIAA would think that restrictive practices like this would actually INCREASE their profits.

I'm not entirely worried. Microsoft tried this by trying to scare everyone into licensing their "pirated" copies of Windows ("..turn in your neighbor...", sound familiar.. Nazi Germany), by forcing people, companies, corporations to audit their licensing practices (what Microsoft forgets, is that piracy is what gave it market share on the desktop. If it was hard to obtain illegally, their numbers would probably be 40-50% less than what they are).

Thank you Microsoft, because now you're forcing companies and corporations, your bread and butter, to realize how much countless millions they spend on your licensing, support, and software, all when there's a completely free, open, viable alternative "over here". The largest bank is Brazil is beginning to switch whole-hog to the better free alternative. Hundreds of other companies are also. This isn't about linux,this is about freedom, about being open with information, offering a hand, an alternative. Not the typical "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" that Microsoft embodies.

The same will happen to the music industry as well. Let's not forget how the music industry got it's initial funding. It wasn't from corporations, it was from the early days of "The Family" (you know who I'm talking about).

Support open, legacy-free formats now, such as Ogg Vorbis and others. Let them gain a strong foothold, and we'll just make our own cds. What's stopping a record company from supporting open standards on their own format? Nothing. The "Big 5" music companies don't stop anyone else from getting a cdrom into Wal-Mart.

Support that activity now.

CNET radio did an interview with Dr. Mann about
the SeatSale Exhibit.

There's a OGG version of it at
http://www.eyetap.org/seatsale/seatsale_cnet.ogg

and more information and links at
http://www.eyetap.org/seatsale

Ogg Vorbis will never be popular, because of the name. Let's face it people, "I have an Ogg Vorbis of that song" sounds really stupid. WMA is a bit better, but still pales in comparison to MP3. MP3 is here to stay for a long time.

Ogg Vorbis will never be popular, because of the name. Let's face it people, "I have an Ogg Vorbis of that song" sounds really stupid. WMA is a bit better, but still pales in comparison to MP3. MP3 is here to stay for a long time.

Actually, ogg has plugins for XMMS, Winamp, and even Windows Media Player. You can get more info from the FAQ or just go straight to the software page, which also has players for most modern OSes (sorry Amiga). Thanks.

Actually, ogg has plugins for XMMS, Winamp, and even Windows Media Player. You can get more info from the FAQ or just go straight to the software page, which also has players for most modern OSes (sorry Amiga). Thanks.

Actually, ogg has plugins for XMMS, Winamp, and even Windows Media Player. You can get more info from the FAQ or just go straight to the software page, which also has players for most modern OSes (sorry Amiga). Thanks.

... are dagrab to rip (mainly coz cdda2wav was playing up), oggenc to encode, and the very friendlyGrip for the frontend. I highly recommend Grip, whatever else you use for the actual back end stuff.

Basically, I was feeling too slack to find out why cdda2wav was giving me grief, so I had a quick squiz thru' /usr/ports/audio, installed dagrab, and was up and ripping within 5 minutes.
God, I love ports.

Not true. The main hold up is that a v.1x reference encoder/decoder hasn't been released yet. While the file format is stable, and has been forward/backward compatable for some time, some final features are still being added. For commercial use, adding the support in too early would cause customers to want to upgrade...too much of a hassle for most companies when v.1.0 is so much more marketable.

See the Ogg Vorbis FAQ for more details on pending hardware support for Ogg Vorbis. On the Rio device front, there are hints at Ogg support in the near future (nothing formal yet ^ ).

Another reason why Ogg Vorbis support is likely is that MP3 and MP3Pro licencing costs are fairly high. For devices where MP3 support isn't even used -- say small digital players used by joggers -- Ogg is quite interesting.

^ - Rio Volt firmware and Ogg Vorbis

Its not a full release yet, so why even place them on a player.

RC2 of version 1.0 Vorbis audio was released just a few short days ago. See the Voribs www site for details.

The Soul Player CD player (which plays full size CDs) supports MP3 and WMA. This player's firmware is flash upgradable. I've written to the manufacturer requesting Ogg Vorbis support. Their quick response was basically that they would consider it.

That would be a more convincing argument if the URL of the official website weren't http://www.vorbis.com. ;-)

Here are two reasons why some users will want to switch to Ogg Vorbis:

• It's free. (Game developers won't have to pay patent license fees to use Ogg Vorbis in their games.)
• It sounds considerably better than MP3 at the same bitrate.

For me, the second one was the killer. Try it yourself! Pick a challenging piece, and encode it with LAME and Ogg Vorbis at the same bitrate, listen to both files, and see which sounds better.

The best thing is how it just rolls off the tongue...

Vorbis...

The site is kind of slow (as it is being /.'d, so if you've seen it all before and want to get directly to the downloads...(but I encourage browsing the whole downloads area)

Unix/Linux (RC2)
Win (RC2)
Unix/Linux (RC2)
Macintosh
BeOS

The best thing is how it just rolls off the tongue...

Vorbis...

The site is kind of slow (as it is being /.'d, so if you've seen it all before and want to get directly to the downloads...(but I encourage browsing the whole downloads area)

Unix/Linux (RC2)
Win (RC2)
Unix/Linux (RC2)
Macintosh
BeOS

The best thing is how it just rolls off the tongue...

Vorbis...

The site is kind of slow (as it is being /.'d, so if you've seen it all before and want to get directly to the downloads...(but I encourage browsing the whole downloads area)

Unix/Linux (RC2)
Win (RC2)
Unix/Linux (RC2)
Macintosh
BeOS

The best thing is how it just rolls off the tongue...

Vorbis...

The site is kind of slow (as it is being /.'d, so if you've seen it all before and want to get directly to the downloads...(but I encourage browsing the whole downloads area)

Unix/Linux (RC2)
Win (RC2)
Unix/Linux (RC2)
Macintosh
BeOS

The best thing is how it just rolls off the tongue...

Vorbis...

The site is kind of slow (as it is being /.'d, so if you've seen it all before and want to get directly to the downloads...(but I encourage browsing the whole downloads area)

Unix/Linux (RC2)
Win (RC2)
Unix/Linux (RC2)
Macintosh
BeOS

Ogg Vorbis is a completely open, patent-free, professional audio encoding and streaming technology with all the benefits of Open Source.

no one is really into ... encrypting their band's music (since being noticed is what they *do* want)

If an independent band inserts .ogg files into Freenet and then publishes the KSK (or whatever Freenet retrieval keys are called) on its web site, bam! Instant legitimate use, and no more need for the Fraunhofer patent license required to get your work onto MP3.com. (LAME doesn't work for bands in countries that recognize Fraunhofer's patent on "coding an audio stream by doing a spectral transform on each block then allocating bits per frequency based on fixed sub-bands".)

Whereas the file format is finished, their current en- and decoders may still have bugs, but AFAIK you will always be able to playback older files with newer software. Furthermore, iObjects have announched support for Ogg Vorbis in their Dadio 2.0 OS for portable players. It's all in the FAQ.

>> Anyway, the point is that that comparison has >> really nothing to do with OGG/MP3. Where .ogg >> stands to gain is if some of the major media >> player writers support it. It has no chance of >> support from MS, but if RealNetworks, Nullsoft >> and/or Apple add it to RealPlayer/Jukebox, >> Winamp and iTunes, then we might see a >> momentum shift. I know by the time this gets posted, a dozen others will have mentioned this, but here goes anyways: Not to be confused with MS support, but a group has developed a plugin that allows MS Media Player to play Vorbis .ogg files. I have not had a chance to test it extensively, but it does work. And it appears it was updated yesterday (5 August).

There are cd rippers available for vorbis. See this site: www.vorbis.com/software.psp

Probably about the same number of people who will pay to use MS Office. (Yeah, I know StarOffice can read .doc.)

But seriously, I think that this .nap file format is doomed. Let me use an analogy: The reason that .doc rules Windows offices is that M$ had the first really useable and easy to install graphical word processor for the Windows PC out there. Windows users instantly know that .doc is a word processor file. .doc means word processor. Similarly, .mp3 is synonymous with 'free music' and people won't just accept .nap. It's like getting offered tofu when you're used to steak (or vice versa.) Even though I've moved up to Vorbis, I still call the directory 'mp3.' It is for this reason that .nap will not catch on.

As we all know, Napster is doomed. Perhaps the corporates who do not realise this will finally get the idea into their heads that they are becoming the enemy of the public when they notice that people do not instantaneously flock to the 'new' Napster.

Ogg Vorbis does have a plug-in for WinAmp.

--
Later...

Ogg Vorbis does have a plug-in for WinAmp.

--
Later...

Actually, you may not be entirely correct. My fiancee and I have had quite a few discussions about high-end stereo equipment (like discrete amplified channels, speakers such as Definitive, Sonus Faber, and whoever it is that makes the filament speakers) as well as the quality of CD recordings vs. vinyl or tape or digital (DAT), etc. Now, mind you - she is an audio engineer, with a degree from one of the most reputed schools in the country (I think its in LA - I forget what its called).

One of the things she explains to me most often is that what you hear (on your CD) is NOT what was recorded in the studio, on stage at the symphony, etc. It is what has been cleaned and processed to sound best on a variety of common setups - like an average stereo, a boombox, and a common (stock) sound system in a common type of car.

So, while many folks believe they can hear more details than others (and admittedly, I'm sure recordings exist that still have these details in them), by and large - these details were lost on the studio post-processing floor. The goal of post-processing is apparently not to deliver the most hi-fi sound - its to deliver the music in a way that it sounds good in the most diverse environments.

To me, this sounds like what we get on CD is truly the lowest common denominator. At that point - encoding into MP3 or Vorbis doesn't seem to make more of a difference. I personally prefer Vorbis because (a) it sounds good (b) the file sizes are small and (c) it is patent free - that means a lot to me. Notice I didn't make any comparisons - I don't presume to say that it is better or smaller than anything else - I don't really care. Its the only format out there that allows me to enjoy my music in a format that is smaller than .wav files and more transportable than CDs whilst knowing that the algorithms are patent free to boot. Sweet deal if you ask me.

The FAQ on the Vorbis site refers to this

The FAQ on the Vorbis site refers to this

I don't know, but I'm guessing it's because every time they try, they pick names that sound REALLY DUMB!

Check these out (no offense to the developers, I'm sure they're all great programs) :

Mr. Project

Pygmy

A (Don't know where that one came from...)

ToutDoux

Gramps

EtherApe

Shogiopening

Moleskine

Krabber

Koog Epsilon

Ogg Vorbis

I could go on, but I think you get the point. These people need some serious help when it comes to name-picking. Microsoft et al have apparently cornered the market on good names. Consider Outlook. Putting aside what you think of the program itself, you have to agree that it's a very good name.

Not to mention, I didn't find any easy Windows software to decode Ogg - just encoding

AOL's Winamp, the most popular audio player for Windows, can decode and play Ogg Vorbis content with a plugin. To decode to .wav instead of to the speaker, simply open Preferences, set the output plugin to Disk Writer, tell it where to stash the .wav files, and then play your .ogg/.mp3 playlist. (Set it back to waveOut to play them.) Use an audio editor to touch up the files, and burn away.

From the vorbis faq

What software and hardware supports Ogg Vorbis?

Ogg Vorbis encoding and/or playback is now native in a wide variety of popular software. It's included in popular players such as Sonique, FreeAmp for Windows, and Unsanity Echo for MacOS. It's also supported in popular audio applications such as CDex, Siren Jukebox, and GoldWave. For a more complete list, refer to our software page. On the hardware side, iObjects has announced Ogg Vorbis support in their Dadio 2.0 OS, designed for portable audio players. Along with other hardware providers, this development should ensure that Ogg Vorbis support is widespread in future consumer audio hardware.

... Ogg Vorbis has a linux version with sour ...

Oh. Never mind.

...it's horribly patent encumbered, and even more expensive than MP3 to license. At least we have Ogg Vorbis to make up for it. Sure, it may not be quite so small, but at least it's completely *free*, and storage isn't so much of an issue these days...

I mean, it's not like I could just start suing people for trading mp3s, could I?

If you worked for Fraunhofer, you could, as MPEG layer 3 technology is patented. If the pirates were using Ogg Vorbis, on the other hand...

This one is penguin-powered, too, which I think is pretty cool, since I wouldn't want to spend another $90 on an operating system for my car stereo. Please consider Ogg Vorbis though; MP3 is patent-encumbered and I'd like to see it die out.

Unfortunately, it's still gonna be spendy no matter how you do it. The parts and prices listed in the article are a little bit outdated, but the system they built cost about $1200 I think...

It would hold a helluva lot of music, though, and you'd be very popular with the Geek girls. ;-)

OTOH, it *is* a bitstream format, and one of the bitstreams it can contain is the Vorbis format, which is a music format.

Ogg != Vorbis.
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