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Universal to Copyprotect All CDs
angkor wrote in with a link to a story about how Universal Plans to
copyprotect all CDs which
will render them unplayable on Macs, DVD Players, PS2s, and some CD Players.
And it won't even stop people from ripping MP3s I bet.
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...and finally...
by the Roto-Rooter Man
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Don't buy em.
Vote with your wallet. It's the only true voice you have in a capitalist society.
[)amien
I have a whole pile of CD's in the office, which I listen to on CD-ROM. Perfectly legal. If I can't expect to do this when I buy a new CD, then I'm simply going to stop buying new CDs.
It will be ripped.
ender-iii
junis needs to be able to listen to the latest tunes from his chicken coop. this just isn't fair!
Since I play all my CDs on my Powerbook, no more Universal CDs for me either. Oh fucking well!
sulli
RTFJ.
Here they go again, making my life difficult. If the CD refuses to work in my computer or CD player, it's going back to the store.
Maybe it's time to grow my vinyl collection again. I'm sure Cream will be in style again soon... won't they?
Now everyone is going to bitch and complain. It's the record company's right to try to copyprotect their CDs. You don't have to buy them. Think of it like this, they're just cutting their sales down as I'm sure some Mac users will not be buying CDs, along with people that have cd players that it won't play on, etc, etc.
Although I'm not quite sure why they're targetting Mac users, or is that just a side effect of their method of copyprotection?
--- I used to moderate, then I read the -1 articles and decided having to filter through them was not worth it.
Lets protect our product by making it less usefull, and still open to theft!
While the people ripping mp3s are still buying the cd's, the other 99% of the market will decrease slightly since you can't use them in anything! No wonder all these DotComs failed... they had the wrong business plan!
Can all fish swim?
They won't ever make a pubicly available format that can't be cracked. Remember the DVD encryption distaster? Some one found out how to break it and posted the code on the net. It was eventually taken down but the damage was done. There are too many good crackers out there for any standard copy-protection to stand up over time. It will soon be cracked and the cd's ripped and the music will be uploaded to the net. Nothing new here, just another attempt on an old theme. Good scientists know, when you repeat the same exepriment under the same conditions, you (all others being equal) get the same results.
Slackware forever. Honestly, what else would you trust when it absolutely positively has to be stable, secure, and easy
Suddenly, I get the urge to start making mixed tapes instead of burning CDs...
Mr. Ska
Seeing as how my Macintosh is my CD player (I have it hooked into a huge sound system), it looks like I will have to find a way to get Universal's music without buying their CDs.
They just lost a customer.
I'd like to pay for my music, but I'm not going to buy a product I can't use!
Oh well, I don't like the music industry anyway... I've been listening to more non-mainstream music...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Au contrare!
If anything, any time I see a post on Usenet of Mp3's from a CD that is supposedly copy protected, the poster usually takes great pains to brag discuss the fact that he was able to rip despite copy protection.
Really, I think that even the record industry didn't expect the various copy protections to really work. What they're doing is building an easily hackable content protection system so that they can prosecute MP3 traders under the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
And are they going to send the CD-Security-Guard to watch you use their CD and make sure you don't connect your CD player's line-out to your computers line-in?? Or do the CD's only play in bad quality CD players (ones without any sort of line outs, the kind where you have to cut the speaker wires and make you're own homemade line-in, am I saying illigal things right now? AAAH).
I better go hide,
Klowner
Some blame the sour economy. Others point to lackluster sales of hotly anticipated new releases from artists like Mariah Carey and Macy Gray, and the glut of look-alike, sound-alike boy bands.
Why don't they just do what every other failure in the past 3 months has done and blame "the tragic events of 9/11"?
OK, so when I play it in my Discman, it's OK; (even if i go to Radio Shack and buy a couple bucks worth of cable, 'line in' to my sound card, and record)
But if I play it on a Sony CDROM drive in my computer, it's bad?
First, how *exactly* does it know? As my dad used to say, "A laser is just a laser".
Prepare for massive consumer backlash. Even if people don't want to ever "rip, mix, and burn" (thank you Apple 'Dont Steal Music' Computer) they want to listen to their CDs when and where they want to.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
It doesn't say they're copy protecting all of their CDs, just one.
Nice of the editors to actually read the article!
Earl
If some CD players won't even work, what is the point? Won't they lose more money then they will be saving?
There you have it, instead of letting true musical diversity create authentic, viable fan bases, the music industry has locked itself into the failing practice of top-down music manufacturing...reminiscent of a Soviet state capitalism that never worked either.
Maybe one day when a free market for music exists again, people will care.
If you arrested all the people in the USA who have violated the drug laws (predominantly recreational drugs like pot), you'd end up arresting the number of people that make up arkensaw, texas, and colerado ... I wonder if Universal will find out just how many fans there are for some of their big name contracts, and I wonder if that number will surprise them. I also wonder if some artists will see this as a damaging move on their part, and request that their releases not be copy protected ...
"Old man yells at systemd"
It failed in committee due to heavy opposition from the IT industry.
company will be the first of the major labels to release a copy-protected CD in the United States
Universal won't be copy protecting all of their CD's. Just one. Please read the articles before linking, thanks.
--
What happens when you outlaw guns
This is _SO_ stupid.
And it pisses me off so bad, that it's likely that I'll go buy the CD, rip it, even if I have to do it at 1x and then take the stinkin' thing back. Then post it on NNTP...or elsewhere...
That way, we can at least even out the fair use rights thing. For all the users that don't get to fully use their CD, there should be lots of people that get extra-ordinary rights...
I think the last time we had a posting on this sort of thing, someone mentioned that if it has 1's and 0's, it would be ripped. I would say that they are correct.
-- The Hollow Man
Non illegitimati carborundum
If a CD won't play in some CD Players, then doesn't it violate the Red Book standard for CD Audio? If so, then how are they allowed to slap the Compact Disc Digital Audio logo on to them?
Sounds like ground for a class action lawsuit once they start to arrive.
-> Capt Cosmic <-
What will this do for Apple's "digital hub" idea? Mac users won't be able to play CDs or "Rip, Mix, Burn".
If I were Apple, I'd be pretty pissed.
There has yet to be any copy protection scheme that hasn't been broken, bypassed, or defeated. This one is doomed to failure as well.
losing revenue to pirating via MP3's or illegal copies being distributed as the real thing?
Well, they're only doing 2 things...
1: eliminating a segment of the population that will buy their CD's (since they won't be able to play them, so why buy them)
2: lighting a fire under every geeks' ass to get "cracking" on these CDs... so we'll have MP3's from them anyway.
and they aren't really preventing anyone who'd be serious about copying the CD's for pirating anyway, just making things more difficult for the typical end user who wants to take his music on his morning runs with him.
of course, don't forget the copy protection mechanism should be covered under the DMCA, so making MP3's will make you a terrorist!
and, at several thousand a year on cds, i wish i would make a dent, but probably not. well, most of my stuff is obscure/indie anyway. i guess i'll run out and get the basics! i do have a feeling that the labels will not be coming out of this situation in the same form. at some point it will become easier to deal with the musicians than with the labels. "dowload the latest firmware to your cd"... yah right! the second hand market will thrive!
Hey, here's an idea; list some bands CDs you won't buy if this happens. Note their record label. Compile a list - hell, just start listing them here!
Only when they see the kind of negative impact this will have on their sales will they abandon these silly strategies for boxing us out of owning music.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
Since these Universal CDs are now absolutely uncopyable ;), does that mean that stores will gladly accept returns. Many stores only allow exchanges, not returns, so that customers can't copy and then return. Since Universal CDs are now impossible (in theory) to copy, stores should have no objection to returned Universal CDs, right?
Carbonite
ich muß mehr Kuhglocke haben
My bookshelf stereo, the JVC SD-5, can't play these CDs either. It isn't that old either since I bought it new less than a year ago. A newer version has come out, the SD-55, that can read CDRW disks that may have solved the problem with the copy-protected CDs. However I can't help but wonder how many other modern regular CD player's can't use these copy protected CDs.
It seems I have no choice but to burn CDs of mp3s.
I can't spell or type, but that doesn't mean I'm unusually stupid.
If the copy protection scheme really makes the CD impossible to play on certain players, those owners may be forced to turn to "stolen" mp3s, increasing the number of people searching for and using napster alternatives. Doh!
Universal told retailers that it would honor refunds on all returned discs -- even for CDs that have been opened.
Buy, return, buy, return, etc. until you get bored. Sounds like fun!
Let's insure this prediction turns out to be untrue :-). I say we all make sure to buy and return this sucker, preferably in a coordinated effort targeted on a certain day...
What idiots... we long ago ceased being "customers" to them, now they just expect us to roll over and play dead. Forget that.
``They've been testing this in Europe and they're experiencing less than a 1 percent return rate from consumers. It really has turned out to be nothing,'' said Jerry Kamiler, TransWorld Entertainment's division merchandise manger. ``If we get the same results here, as I imagine we would, I don't think it's going to manifest itself into a consumer problem.''
It's a strange world -- let's keep it that way
They won't give up tilting at this windmill I guess. It's frustrating to watch a company make such a wrongheaded move. Yet it's also a move that will likely garner little bad press and few lost sales. And if they find any hint of success, everyone will do it. But what do you do?
It'll be interesting to see if this gets covered by mainstream press much.
Meanwhile, this topic has been absolutely battered here on Slashdot.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
CD will come with a sticker that notifies the consumer that it is copy-protected and warns about possible playback problems. An insert in the jewel case provides a toll-free number for consumers and a Web site, where they can get more information.
Universal told retailers that it would honor refunds on all returned discs -- even for CDs that have been opened.
RETURN THE CD to the store! After you rip it, of course.
If enough CD buyers vote with their returns they won't be putting copy protection on CDs for long.
Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
"The industry says it needs to use the lock-box approach to music to prevent consumers, armed with CD-authoring software and hardware and a quick Internet connection, from downloading and burning the recording industry out of existence." Horseshit. What they really need is to release decent music at an affordable price. More importantly however, I use a DVD player with its digital output to listen to almost all of my CD's on my stereo. And CD that won't work in my DVD player because of "copy-protection" won't be purchased by me, and if I do purchase one unknowingly it will be returned... Hmm, returns cost the CD manufacturer directly, whereas pirating is indirect... a way to hurt 'em? Not sure.
unlike the other protected versions. quick, everyone go out and buy a couple, then return them!
can't one use that software (the name of which escapes me), which creates some sort of layer on the audio drivers so that any sound played through the audio system is digitally extracted.
Anyone recollect the name?? (11 bucks a pop if memory serves!!)
However, I am fed up with this charade and I would like to end it once and for all. I have the paperwork in front of me to take Universal Records to small claims court to recover the purchase price of the CD. Since Universal is not based in my area, it will be very expensive for them to send their high-priced lawyers to my county to deal with the charges. And, worst case, I will lose the cost of the CD (and best case, I will get a refund on the CD and make a political statement at the same time).
I strongly encourage all of you to do the same thing: buy whatever CDs you want, and sue the record labels if they are copy protected. Even if most of the cases get thrown out, it will be *very* expensive for the labels to take any sort of action against the thousands of individuals who are suing them.
The RIAA has been able to manipulate the legal system into standing up for their rights. Why shouldn't we do the same thing back to them?
~wally
My grandmom, my parents my siblings, most of the people I know, would call that hotline and send the thing back if it didn't work in their CD player. My mom's not going to settle for it only playing in her car, and not on her PC. She doesn't have anything in the house but a PC to listen on. It's a good think they chose a mediocre albumn to start with, so that the backlash won't be too bad. I mean, if they'd have chosen a potential best seller, they'd be wading through returned CD's within a month.
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
Universal expects to be copy protecting all its CDs by the end of 2002.
--
E_NOSIG
are you going to download 128/256 quality mp3s for the latest and greatest Universial song that no one else can rip either?
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
its a game. a competition between the piraters and the companies. one finds a new way to block you from copying something, the other side finds a way to crack it. and the only peopel who are really getting "hurt" is the honest users who cant play their music in ther cdrom, or have to enter a 3000 digit serial code for their game, or whatever.
the crackers are laughing at the big companies everytime they crack a protection scheme, and the companies only end up kicking the average user in their retaliation. pretty sad when the warezed music and programs are easier to use/install/play than the legal copy. i wonder where *this* trend is gonna lead..
Artists are happy playing music, not selling it. That's why you don't see artists (like myself) pitching a holy fit that the RIAA is losing its foot hold. Gee, why do all bands suck now? Is it 'cause all the talent isn't on labels anymore? And why would that be?
Hmmm.
sir_haxalot
stuff |
This is annoying because they are not necesarily clearly labeled, it is a lot of overhead in terms of time and effort (as compared to the cost of a CD it's significant) to return a CD to the store where it was bought, let alone to return something to an online retailer. I guess if all of Universal's CDs are going to be copy protected, then it's easy to avoid them, but a lot of the other labels (gee i didn't even know that universal _made_ CDs) are trying hard to keep people from knowing that they are buying a crippled CD.
It seems like the industry _is_ really pissing into the wind on this one, because explaining to a non-tech sort of person that their BRAND NEW and FRESHLY UNWRAPPED album doesn't play in their car beacause of some elaborate and technically detailed reason that essentially involves assuming that every consumer is a crook and should not be trusted... All i have to say is i'm glad i don't work for _their_ customer service department.
---
Play Six Pack Man. I
Vote with your wallet. Just don't buy them... That's just not practical. Too many people will go ahead and buy these shit CD's anyways. You'd be suprised what a consumer will put up with. "Oh, I have to buy a different CD player to play this new CD. Well, OK." I'm sure NO slashdot reader would EVER aquiesce to some souless corporation. But with an active readership of what, 50K? you're crusade won't even be a blip on the radar... What is needed is proper legislation. But that takes time and effort, much more time and effor than just not buying a cd, or yelling from the rooftops to anyone that will listen (and they'll all be slashdotters), that what's going on is NOT RIGHT...
Now the true dilema. Do I post this AC and avoid Karma detriment? (Wow, a slashdotter who actually cares about Karma? Is there such an animal?)
I doubt you can return the CD if it says "will not play on CD-ROM" on the cover.
I don't have a standard CD Player. I buy CD's to play in my computer to listen to while I'm at work. As manager of the Development Engineering department at national dialup/wireless ISP ( StarNet and StarNet WX ) I work long hours. I spend more time at work than I do at home, so I keep nearly my entire music collection at work. If I can no longer play my CD's on my computer then they just lost a sale.
Of course, they'll proabably use the declining sales statistics to shout that more protection is needed as people are obviously copying the CD's somehow and hence making fewer legitimate CD purchases. Someday, they'll wake up, and realize they've been left behind by the masses. I only hope that day comes sooner, rather than later.
---
Segmentation Fault ( core dumped )
Many people are electing to replace their old CD players with new DVD players. I replaced my old 5 disc CD changer with a new 5 disc DVD player. I still use it to play CDs, but now I also watch movies on it. Plus it didn't cause me to lose any more precious space in my component rack.
With the copy protection MANY, MANY people will not be able to play music on their system. I don't think that this policy will last very long.
Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but copyright will always protect me.
Who the hell would want to copy a Michael Jackson CD, let alone buy it?
I'm out of my tree just now but please feel free to leave a banana.
i'm sure that you could never understand the joys of putting on some mind throbbing trance and then coding your little fingers off whilst your mind is free from diversions.
Music doesnt distract. Music with LYRICS distracts. Maybe if you stopped by American Pop-Culture crap, you'd be less of a american fuckwad.
I have a feeling someone will hack at this....so right now I am not too concern
This smacks of the 6.02x10^23 different copy protection schemes employed by various games throughout the 80-90s. I remember all sorts of schemes from stupid (requiring a hidden file or special byte sequence at a certain address) to annoying (one of the wizardry series required you to type in a gibberish string from a 20 page booklet of gibberish strings. The annoying part was that the text was dark blue on a dark burgundy background and it was difficult to read in the best of light. But this also made it impossible to photocopy) and one by one they were cracked and scoffed at. The content (the game) still made it out into the open.
Unless the protection scheme's strength comes from the laws of science/nature (e.g. RSA) I think any scheme will be broken with enough time and CPUs applied to it.
it's not going to stop until you wise up, no it's not going to stop. so just give up.
Further down than the first parapgraph, the article states Universal's plane to have 'copy protection' (rights elimination) on all new CDs in a couple years.
I don't subscribe to RMS's GNUtopian vision.
My solution is to purchase $100 dollars worth of the CDs one day and return the next day as being defective because they don't comply with the Red Book standard. Universal said they would honor the refunds to the retailers. That would cost them more in the end than not buying the CDs in the first place. I think that's the best solution.
It's sad that there is something wrong with people playing a CD in a DVD player or a computer.
As for people still ripping mp3's and ogg's of course it will still happen. I have a mixer, cdplayer, cables and other misc stuff to record wav's to convert to mp3's. It's that simple.
http://www.umusicpub.com/feedback_frames.html
There's one feedback method, I plan to let them know that I'll never buy these types of CDs. Anyone else have better contact info? Email addresses?
Is there a site somewhere that keeps a list of copy-protected cd's? I just bought Slipknot's new cd, iowa, and it craps out solidly when I try to play it in my cd-rom. It works fine in my roommate's cd-rom though. Actually I'm not surprised of this. Slipknot clearly state their affinity for satan, so they'd have no problem of agreeing with one of the dark one's ventures, the RIAA.
"It might not even play in some CD players."
Really? Then why bother buying it for the plastic?
The record company has argued that blank cd sales directly translates into lost sales.
In some countries recording companies have tried to impliment a tax on the sale of blank cd's and the money from the tax, in theory, would go to up and coming artists.
Personally for every one audio or mp3 cd that I make I burn about 20 data cd's backing up source files, programs, email etc.
> Some blame the sour economy. Others point to lackluster sales of hotly anticipated new releases from artists like Mariah Carey and Macy Gray, and the glut of look-alike, sound-alike boy bands.
Someone please tell me that was intended as sarcasm. The only reason I've even heard of Mariah Carey is because Jay Leno spent two solid weeks ridiculing her overhyped movie.
And what could be more hotly anticipated than a new release from one of a glut of look-alike, sound-alike boy bands?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
~ Koji Hase, 01/09/01 - chairman of the DVD Forum
Here's the question I want every consumer of CD/DVD media in this country to be asking: Why is the industry turning the thumbscrews down on me? You're not a pirate. You're not a criminal. But you're being treated like you're both. At what point will our elected officials begin to notice who the real target is here?
Look around. Anyone here on slashdot worried about not getting any song they want in MP3 format? Anyone here having problems, say, getting Windows XP? When Napster crashed and the media whimpered about it... did IT professionals talk about it? No, they didn't care. We simply upgraded our software, and kept going! What, got a new CD that won't rip all of the sudden? *clickity-click* Oh, look... there's the crack for it... *clickity-click* And look, now it's ripping - thank you CloneCD!
Comeon people. We're not the target. Let's get our tools out to the average person to combat this, and make sure they know they're not wrong for using them. And passing around some anti-DMCA fliers wouldn't hurt either. ;)
Trapped in Time... Surrounded by Evil... Low on Gas.
Don't settle for in-store-credit... Demand a full refund for 1 of two reasons...
1.) The thing is labeled as CD Digital Audio (CDDA), which is in violation of logo, because in order to be CDDA, it must be red-book compliant, (or whatever book it is), and this copy protected CD is most definately NOT compliant.
2.) The CD is "defective" because it is labeled as CDDA, but does not play in a CDDA compliant player, ie my DVD player, my computer, etc etc.
There are also people who insist that they are better lovers while drunk or high.
Yet, the both groups of people are wrong, but too stupid to admit it.
And even if listening to music did not distract people, it is still unprofessional, but I guess some people just don't have any pride in their work.
The title of the article in itself is about "copy-protecting" A CD, so the /. headline is inaccurate.
More may follow from Universal eventually. . .
However, I think this will all quickly blow up in the face of record companies when they see that it doesn't help the sale of CDs at all. I mean, why else would they think to do it but to try and sell more CDs and lose less "market share" to music downloaders?
Perhaps I give record execs too much credit, but I think they've just reached desperation. This CD, after all, is just a litmus test for them, really, and if the reaction is negative they will scrap this whole idea, or eventually try to move music to a different format than CDs. (something that would be very very hard to do successfully)
I submitted this story two weeks ago! It was rejected. Sure seems like I'm missing something, like why?
-s
As long as mp3 trading services are around, it only takes one person to rip a CD and stay up on gnutella or whatever for it to get around.
So the real question is, right now, what % of CDs are first-generation rips? Since we all know that any CD like this can be ripped (even if with a loss of quality from going the DAC/ADC in the sound card), they will be ripped. And then they'll be traded. So who cares?
The other interesting question is whether something like cdparanoia (which, from what I've heard, rips these CDs) can be considered a circumvention device even though it existed independently of (and before) the copy-protection being circumvented. I presume this would guarantee that it had "substantial non-infringing use" or whatever the standard is that they measure it by, but I dunno.
-Rob Ewaschuk
I never understood what all the buzz about music is about. I prefer reading poems and novels, watching TV, movies, etc. instead of listening to some retard sing.
I disagree and would be interested in seeing some figures to prove it beyond your opinion. As to wearing head phones looking unprofessional, tell that to 5 million call center or phone workers. Did you just make up your objection on the fly or are you trolling ??
I wish you would grow a brain, growing up has nothing to do with anything.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
How about they stop making CDs completely. That's the only way they are going to keep them from getting ripped and it's just one step further than the copyprotect stuff they are doing now as far as the consumer is concerned.
From the article:
Universal told retailers that it would honor refunds on all returned discs -- even for CDs that have been opened.
This is great news. If you believe copy-protected discs are wrong, just buy one, open it, and return. In fact, buy 50 of them, open them all, then return them. If enough people do this, maybe Universal will get the message.
If you want to be even more eeeeeeeeevil, you could open it, rip it via line out, post the ripped tracks to newsgroups, then return it.
They asked for it.
--
For the book says, "We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us."
I almost always buy my CD's and then make legal copies in MP3 format... now if I can't do that I will be forced to download music for free and universal will lose the sale... I guess they want me to save money. Thanks!
Arseholes to the lot of 'em. Screw the record industry. I'm stealing all my music from now on and spending my money on books.
Tell them it won't play in your DVD player, your *insert brand* home Stereo system etc etc...
Or just kindly ask them why it says, "Will not play in CD-ROM", since a CD-ROM is CDDA compliant. Point out to them they can't be selling CD's as CDDA if it is not CDDA compliant, any more then I can sell them a 14k gold bracelet as a solid gold bracelet.
Ask them, "Since this CD is copy protected by deliberate errors placed in the error correction, than how is error correction supposed to function correctly, like when you get dust/scratches/etc on the CD?"
If I go buy the CD and hack it, then I can make a copy, and take the CD back for a full refund :)
Sounds good to me.
But you wait, Wal-mart and others will start advertising that it won't work on all those devices and that once opened, cannot be returned just because it doesn't work on known hardware.
The vast, vast majority of computer users have one or more flavors of Windows. Those who use Linux or *BSD have made it clear that they won't buy the CDs anyway. And Mac users, while historically a good market for the latest tech toys, have such a poor selection of music software and hardware that is compatible that they are much more likely to do the right thing, and either use a CD player or switch to Windows, than they are to abandon Universal music altogether.
So don't assume so quickly that this will be a failure. That Bronfman is a pretty smart fellow.
Buy them and return them, once at every record store in town. Buy some online and return those too. Smack 'em with refused credit card payments for defective merchandise. Make a minor scene in the record store, and ask them to please warn future purchasers that it might not play in their device. (Then pull the clerk aside and apologize -- it's not their fault, after all)
"...pooling their money to buy a single music CD and a spindle of blank discs and making dubs for everyone in the group -- with a few extras to sell at school."
Huh? Equating the fans with crack dealers doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Maybe releasing music that some actually WANTS to pay for would be a better route.
The more scarce they make their products, and this includes copy protection, passwords etc, the more it makes geeks want to crack them. Simple prinicple of psychology
What about the quality of the music that's being released? Did Universal, BMG, Sony, et al ever stop to wonder if part of the problem is that they're churning out bands that are carbon copies of each other? Do we really need more "boy bands" or breathy, heartbroken beauty queens? It's just like TV...as soon as Survivor became a hit, every network had to have a clone...but now that the market is saturated, ratings are terrible.
Oh, and what about the economy? I'll bet that if you're one of the million or so high tech workers who doesn't have a job anymore, buying the latest Brittany Spears CD is probably way down on your list, below, say groceries!
Piracy is always an easy card to play, and not just for the music industry. It's a whole lot easier it blame some kid with a ripper, a burner and a fast Internet connection for destroying their market than it is to realize that the industry itself, by churning out disc after disc of bubble gum flavored dreck, is killing itself.
-h-
Most junk CD players just blindly read the data off the CD-ROM and fead it to the DAC.
Higher end CD players as well as CD-ROM drives, actually perform some type of Error Correction as it reads the data. A CD-ROM does this, because it must read the data correctly, or its useless as data storage. High end CD players do this, to correct for scractches, dust, etc etc.
Copy-protected CD's have deliberate errors in the error correction, so that the CD-ROM drive and high end CD-Players will think it just read unrecoverable errors.
When you are forced to use the line-in on your sound card the signal had to go through a DAC and ADC. Both introduce error and your resulting MP3 isn't as clean.
At this point, I'm tempted to get a Sony Mini-Disc player and record with it. Since my stereo CD player uses digital output and the MD recorder using digital input, I won't be losing as much.
there's a whole bucketload of ignoramii who won't hear about this unless we tell them.
SPREAD THE WORD. Evangelize at your local record store. Bring it up in conversation. Dangle CDs from your car mirrors and prepare a 10-second explanation that you can deliver at stoplights. Tell your aunt blabbermouth, make sure she's got the facts straight, then let gossipnet take over.
Oh, new games don't have them? I wonder why?
Consistency is overrated.
I use it on my desk. When I walk around I use an iPod, which works exceedingly well. Bitch.
As we are coming to an era where more and more home entertainment devices use CD-ROMs as their reading mechanism, I can't see this "copy protection" garbage lasting very long. Do you really think Yuppie Joe Sixpack is really going to be happy when his thousand dollar Compaq iPaq Music Center can't do with these CDs what he bought the thing for?
I don't think the industry quite gets it anymore. I do not own a CD player as such - I have a CD-ROM in my computer and a DVD player. If universal copy protects their CD's I won't be able to play them and if I can't play them I won't buy them.
I suspect more and more people are going to be in this situation.
Their argument that blank CD's are harming their sales is bogus too - the reason more blanks than pre-recorded discs are sold is because there are many other uses for blanks - from publishing your own music, backing up your computer, etc. I own two cd-writers and never use them to copy music.
Unfortunately, phenomenon like Napster and the ease of `ripping and burning' are causing artists and record companies real harm...
Will someone please show this lady an episode of MTV Cribs?
Hopefully artists trying to decide between two labels will decide that it doesn't want copy protected CD's because it could affect the bands popularity. I know I've bought more music after being able to download and listen to music first (I don't have all day to hang out in Tower and listen to an album in a listening booth).
if common sense was common, wouldn't everyone have it?
In Germany alone, one survey by market researcher GfK found that blank CD sales jumped 129 percent this year. Purchases of pre-recorded music dropped 2.2 percent in the same period.
What a bizarre and useless statistic. What's the point? I can't even begin to comprehend. Okay, for one thing, CDRs are much cheaper than CDs. The popularity of CDRs is rising, while pre-recorded music has been around for decades. Another thing, how do they know what people record on them, or if they've recorded on them at all? I've got stacks of blank CDRs to back up files. If I make a music CD it's from music that I bought on a regular CD.
I think they ought to compare the sale of bread to the sale of pre-recorded CDs. I bet they will find a real "disturbing trend".
Donate money to the EFF. I was listening to an episode of "Off the Hook", and they had two people from the EFF speaking. They said that comsumers will see more an more of these types of resrtictions in the coming years. You're going to see a change in the culture of how we "own" CDs, DVDs and other forms of entertainment. Hollywood and the RIAA will dictate to you just how you can view/listen to their product.
This is an uphill battle, but there's no better time to start than now.
I think the last time we had a posting on this sort of thing, someone mentioned that if it has 1's and 0's, it would be ripped. I would say that they are correct.
If my ears can hear it, and my eyes can see it, so can my "recording" device...
komi
The ultimate goal of science is to unify all forces of nature to a single law that can be silk-screened onto a T-shirt.
It's bad taste :)
Time for a public boycott of all products, about time they listened to the little guy.
I don't know about the rest of the /. crowd, but I own about 150 CDs and roughly 160 records (vinyl). If 1% of my music was defective, I'd STILL be irate. Of course, I'm the type of person who will stop shopping at a store, will dispute a credit card transaction, or call the BBB if a company pisses me off, so I suppose I'm in the minority.
Let's be realistic: all copy protection can be circumvented. There are BASIC programs like vsound for Linux which snarfs /dev/dsp to a .wav file as sound is written to it. If someone wants to get around the protection, they can. Line out -> Line in and you're done. It's not rocket science. You can buy boxes to circumvent VHS copy protection - does anyone actually believe this will stop people?
Frankly, if I can't rip tracks and make my own CDs, you can damn well bet those CDs WILL be returned.
The industry says it needs to use the lock-box approach to music to prevent consumers, armed with CD-authoring software and hardware and a quick Internet connection, from downloading and burning the recording industry out of existence.
A slip in the PR department: note it doesn't say jack about the artists.
Ad in classifieds: Pandora's Box (no box) $5
So, this could be a very effective strategy for dealing with record companies. With hundreds of lawsuits coming from different directions, they won't bother appearing in court and they will lose every case - making copy protection economically infeasible.
-sting3r
Make no mistake -- copy protection is designed to "protect" the record companies, not the musicians! Have you been in a shopping mall record store recently? CD prices are up to $18-19 for most current releases...no wonder they aren't selling! Who in their right mind would pay that much for an album?
Absurdity: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. -- Ambrose Bierce
Just as soon as I pay my stack of traffic tickets. ;)
Seriously tho, I didn't think about this. The defendant has to appear in the court where the case is brought, which depends on the plaintiff's location. Muahahaha.
A blank CD-R costs $0.50 and can hold 650 mb of backup data from my hard drive. Until the latest britney speared album has the same price/performance ratio for doing backups, I will continue to buy 100 packs of CD-R's and not 100 packs of her albums.
This may sound silly, but bear with me. In the food industry, certain words and phrases *must* indicate that products meet certain standards. Like "food product", "meat", "all beef", "chocolate", etc. Think "pasturized cheese food product". It is big-time illegal to sell food products that do not meet the "standard of identity" indicated by these key phrases if they are so labeled. So... there is a well defined standard for audio CD's. Why the heck don't we just get the force of law behind it? It's just simple consumer protection. Heck, this can start without the law makers. Somebody just needs to trademark the "good bit-keeping seal of approval" or some such, and license the right to use the logo on compliant products.
Sony advertises its Playstation 2 as a CD/DVD player, and owns some of the studios that may be releasing the copy protected CDs. In fact, there has already been the whole flap over the Michael Jackson single that they released with the copy protection. (acording to the article)
IANAL, but wouldn't that open them up to some sort of legal action, since they also sell some of the devices that get broken by this?
"Remember, there never were pineapple-almond cookies here."
Will someone please tell me how this is relevant to music piracy? That could mean anything, as blank CDs are not used exclusively for burning pirated songs.
It could mean that people are making mix CDs of music they have purchased. They could be backing up their CDs. For that matter, they could be backing up their hard drives, which would explain the increase in sales because you'd need a lot of them to backup a 40-gig HD!
I hate it when people jump to conclusions like that... argh.
There is no escape from The Muffin.
They state that more CDR's have been sold than new CD's. Yeah, no shit. Not every one of those CDR's is used to pirate music. On the last 25 disc spindle I bought:
One compilation CD (free use. Now piss off Hilary)
One MAME cd (Okay, so Sega and the gang can get po'ed, but I actually have some of these games)
One "abuse the high speed connection at work CD" (patches and game demos. Got them at work before I had a cable modem at home)
3-5 Multiple place CD's (I copy some service packs and driver disks for work. We have three locations. Easier to have the CD's at each office than it is to pull the files over the WAN)
12+ Linux/BSD cd's. Yup, this is excessive, but I was switching distros, so tried out a few.
No copies of CD's!!! So what's your freakin' point?
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Karma Whore alert:
Remember, don't buy and return from the indy and/or mom-and-pop shops. Buy and return from Circuit City, Amazon.com, Wal-Mart, etc. (The bonus with buying from Amazon is that if they don't identify the offending CD, you might be able to get them charged with mail fraud)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I just called that number per Fat Chuck's instructions and they're telling me that they don't have precise rules on clear labelling for CD's and stuff like that. They tell me they mainly handle other household appliances like fridges, heaters, and even clothing.
The lady gave me another phone number for california/los angeles area:
213 974 1452
errm.
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
This seems to be the plan for Universal:
Step 1: wage war against your customers
Step 2: introduce hair-brained scheme to keep monopoly
Step 3: go out of business like guys who made CueCat
In a world where people are willing to take a book and OCR scan it, page by page, into a text file so that they can post it on usenet, the efficacy of any scheme that allows you to actually use the media involved is questionable.
The amount of sheer non-laziness evident in such behavior seems a massive disincentive to spending the billions required to design and implement protection.
Oh, and I'm sure the go-juice for all of these highly expensive endeavors comes directly from the artists' pockets.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
This could be quite a boon for MP3 software makers - guaranteeing upgrade fees from users each year. I can see it now, "Buy MusicRipper 3.0 and get a free yearly subscription to upgraded rip plugins!" It'll be just like Norton and LiveUpdate. Each time a new "protection" scheme hits the market, teams of programmers will code 'round the clock to find out how to rip the tracks sucessfully. Then, as long as your subscription is good, your ripper software will check to see if any new "enhancement" plugins have been posted. No more need to add lots of features, just keeping pace with the music industry will be enough.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I think you just wish you made as much money as us.
Furthermore, my productivity INCREASES when my headphones are on, I don't get distracted by the noise of the office.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
The recording companies and the RIAA just do not realize that they are hurting themselves. Let them issue copy-protected, encrypted CDs. Let them disenfranchise the average record purchasing consumer. Let them continue to strive for the perfect monopoly over the copyrights they own.
And when the RIAA and the recording industry has succeeded at this, they will realize that the piracy is still rampant, and the consumer is not responsible for that piracy. Rather than go after the "mega-pirates" and mass producers of illegal CDs, they choose to fight the very people they wish to have as customers.
While there are many stupid consumers, they are becoming less and less technology ignorant as time goes on. The more technically saavy consumers there are, the less those consumers will tolerate the inability to use the music or video they have legally purchased as they see fit.
"If copies are outlawed, then only outlaws will have copies." If the industry thinks the piracy is bad now, wait until every audio or video CD or DVD can't be copied.
This will only discourage consumers from purchasing these "hobbled" products, yet people will *still* find a way to violate the copyrights.....regardless of the security put into place.
Universal loses either way.
Seriously, as an iPod owner, if I end up buying any of these CD's, I won't just return it, I'll send an E-mail to Apple saying that iTunes and my iPod is now useless for me because it won't let me use any new cd's.
After all, hell hath no fury like a pissed-off Steve.
As a professional computer programmer, I have discovered that listening to music while coding in no way hinders my productivity. I have also discovered that it is not considered unprofessional to listen to music or wear headphones while working. The few people out there who do consider it unprofessional are simply the cobwebs in our society that will find themselves being brushed away on the end of a broom stick and finally thrown into the trash. Besides, my job is not to look professional, but to be professional. You know, there is a difference. My professional status is not determined by others, but by my own integrity. If I looked snappy and professional but lied and cheated all the time, I wouldn't care how professional anyone would consider me... I would be a loser, plain and simple.
I know this a troll, but I have to respond, if only to make the relevant counterpoint. I do listen to music at work. I have (nearly) my entire CD collection encoded as MP3s on one of my computers (the dual G4) at work, and set into a half dozen playlists. There's the debugging playlist, the speedhacking playlist, the algorithm design playlist, the interface design playlist, the asm hacking playlist, and the paced hacking playlist. Yes, they do pace me correctly for each of the above tasks. Yes, the speedhacking playlist is mostly speed metal and german techno. I'm severely ADD, non hyperactive, and even medicated, I can't focus without the music. I don't have it on when interfacing with customers or coworkers, but it effectively doubles my productivity having the music pumping through my headphones into my hindbrain. And believe me, I do not have a no-brains-required job. And I don't exactly look unprofessional when prospective customers are around. The headphones are discreet, and my desk is clean except for the four monitors, phone, soda, kleenex, and whatever papers, books, or notepads I am currently using. I wear professional clothes when customers are in town, and casual elsetimes. I'm currently working as a coder, damnit, not a salesman! As for nerf guns, no thanks. I paddle canoes in my spare time, and wouldn't mind getting the crew out on a paintball field on weekends, if so many of them didn't have young children, but this is no foozeball office. So why does it have a half dozen (out of sixteen) geeks with music pumping into their brains? Well, we're a genius heavy company, and there's a high correlation between intelligence and input/impulse driven thought... it's often looked to as the neurological basis of epiphany, among other things... so with a high intelligence crew, I'd say a pro-music policy is a good thing.
Fortunately, a most of the best stuff out there, for what I use it for, is not distributed by Universal and Co.
-- Still waiting for the Nike endorsement
Am I wrong in assuming that people with high
end audio equipment are those who are most likely
to buy lots of CDs? Now many members of the RIAA are putting out a products that are potentially incompatible with many high end CD players.
Both my roomate and myself have high end CD players
in our cars. It is fairly aggrivating to know that there is a possibility that our CD players might
not work with new CDs. Does the RIAA actually
expect me to go and spend hundreds of dollars to
replace my current CD player with a new model?
Sure, we're not running to the store for the latest
Backstreet Boys, or Brittney Spears album... but I bet that we buy on average more CDs per year than the average consumer.
The thing is that I _know_ that just like everything else out there that was supposed to
prevent piracy, this nonsense will be cracked in due time. To listen to music I bought legally, I'll probably be forced to use a crack rip a CD to MP3, and then recopy it onto a CD-R that will work in my car. Mind you the copy will be of inferior quality, and that I've just violated the DMCA in doing that.
Yes, that is right, to listen to CDs I bought legally, I'm going to have to violate a law anyway.
Case in point... this sort of BS is probably going
just INCREASE piracy. Do they think that I'm going
to PAY MONEY for a defective CD?
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
I mean ok so i cann't do a direct copy off the cd perhaps anymore... All people are going to do is do a old style lineout from the headphone jack into the input on your computer and hit record... They are never going to stop people from ripping cds. They are acting like Bootlegging is new its been around since the first recorded music. Sure computers might have spend up the process abit but thats life and life goes on. They will find other ways to make money. I remeber back when people couldn't figure out why someone would put up a webpage... What profit could be made of that?? Don't be afraid of the technology, embrace it
I'm a musician, have been for 14 years. I have zero respect for the music coming out today, very little of it is professional at all.
What happened to the Bob Dylans, the Tom Pettys, the Beattles of the world? Bands in those days stood for something, wrote real music and were deserving of the praise they got.
The music industry has sold out like the professional sports industry, paying higher and higher dollar figures to this weeks glam and pop queens/kings.
I have no interest at all in any music I heard on the radio on my way into work this morning. Not one song stood out as something I would buy let alone collect like I would with some old Doors records or some Credence Clear Water Revival.
The industry is in dire need of a revolution. Like when the Beattles broke out on to the scene, they literally exploded. They started a whole new trend, rocked the foundation of our society. Same applies with the Doors, Led Zepplin, The Who.
I want someone to strike a cord in me like Bruce Springstien. I want to hear someone who can communicate with me on an intellectual level like Paul Simon.
Hell, Poison and Motley Crue had more style and talent than the bands that are out today. Everyone on the rock side wants to be Limp Bizkit, everyone in rap wants to be Puff Daddy and everone in pop wants to be Britney or NSYNC.
I'm disgusted with music today. I'm sick of it and I'm not going to take it anymore.
-todd
I am not posting this for you or any of slashdot's need to see this info. This is strictly so that the Hilary Rosen RIAA-bot can see these numbers, understand why I'm so fucking upset with all this new copy-protection crap that goes completely against the consumer's wishes (the "customer is always right" no longer applies I guess), and formally state that I will not buy any Universal CD's with copy-protection on them, until it has been removed, or until an easy plugin for a computer program is made that circumvents the copy-protection completely. (I'm sure there are such plugins, I just haven't had the need to go find them for music CD's up until now).
P.S. I forgot to mention that one CD copy I have of my favorite group, the 77's, has been an out-of-print CD for some time now ("Pray Naked"). I burned a copy from a friend who still had it because my original copy was stolen from my car about 5 years ago. I would still pay upwards of $25 for a good condition original CD w/ Jewel case, but alas, it's a hard to find item, even on Ebay. Now you tell me, do I sound like I'm trying to get every CD I have for free, or maybe I just don't like paying for shitty NSync and Britney Spears drivel, and would rather try-before-I-buy?
Oh yes, and while you're at it, Hilary, why not cut out the kickback system you have in place with all the radio stations? I hear so much boring, repetitive music from uninspiring bands on the radio stations in this town that it's just silly. It's no wonder I get most of my interesting music over the internet in so-called 'pirated' mp3 form.
A question to /.'ers with knowledge of the copy protection scheme to be used...
I have read very little on the technical nature of the topic, probably because such a hyped issue inevitably lands in hands of the McPress. Most of what I have seen though, explains such copy protection as introducing "cracks or irritating noise" into the music, most of which is filtered out by today's noise reduction systems common in CD players, but not in computer CD drives.
So, my question is, could this noise be removed by passing the music data through a nicely tuned Fast Fourier Transform?
If so, a copy/processing utility could be written in under an hour that would give you access to the sound info, albeit ripping time would certainly increase.
If pirating music is such a huge practice that is regularly occuring and hurting their business, how could 15 millions copies be released and not talked about?
I hope they realize that if they do manage to pull this one off, and people buy into the "copy protected" music cd thing ...
someone is just going to come up with CD-ROMs with an "audio mode" that play (and hence rip) the audio CDs.
vote with your $$$ -- don't buy crippled CDs.
That being said, I think there is also a fundamental problem with the way people tend to be exposed to music now days. Getting a fresh sound from MTV? Good luck. The vast majority of radio stations are also pushing this crap. I think we're all sort of the victim of the big corperation here. For people who don't know where to find "different" music, they're exposure/choices are rather limited.
So.. will this lead to a quick scarfing up of old, unprotected CD's before the garbage hits the stores? Real harm to artists and manufacturers will come when disgusted consumers return useless CDs in floods.
"Hey, my royalty check is $-57,000, what's with that?"
"Restocking fee, you have to pay it because consumers don't. I suggest putting pr0n on your album covers so people are less inclined to return them because they don't play."
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
For your information, I was not trolling.
I really do consider listening to music at work unprofessional conduct.
Why not watch DivX movies while you're at it?
Pretty much! Since I can no longer play legally purchased CD's, I am now FORCED to the filesharing services.
As my dad used to say, "A laser is just a laser".
All I wanted was a frickin' "laser" (make finger quotes here)
Posting AC for the obvious reason
It also mentions WHERE you can get it:
So I did a quick lookup on cdnow.com and it appears the CD is being released today (Dec 18)
Here is my suggested plan of action:
- Go to Coconuts or another respective music retailer.
- Specifically ask the clerk for Fast & Furious -- More Music
- Immediately purchase the CD. - Walk outside.
- Unwrap the CD, throw away shrink-wrap (this is key, I'll explain in a bit.)
- Maybe even perform a little cosmetic damage on the jewel case (nothing serious, a scratch here or there, dog, cat, or even human saliva can really add to the effect.)
- March back into the aforementioned retail store.
- Furiously demand a refund.
- Receive refund.
By taking the shrink wrap off of the CD case and roughing the case up, you force Coconuts to pay some clerk to re-package, and/or possibly send back the product.
So my point is this: The more time Coconuts or whatever retailer spends on dealing with your refund situation, the less patience they will have when dealing with similar situations. The less patience they have with similar situations, the less likely they are going to advocate CD-crippling.
Go do your job, fellow fair-use advocates (remember that concept?) and return a Fast + Furious CD today.
--Fred
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American Public." - H.L. Mencken
OK, so I'm confused about the fact that someone can be prosecuted for circumventing copy-protection schemes, but now circumvention will be the only way to enjoy our legal and well-established fair use rights.
I'm not the first one to be confused about this I think, but could someone enlighten me?
"Whether or not you believe me, I'm right" -RWF
ion. I used the plural "mirrors" to indicate that but I guess additional clarification was needed. Yes, I know CDs dangling from the inside mirror are dangerous and illegal. A friend of mine got an "obstructed view" ticket for his fuzzy dice. It was thrown out after he showed the judge 18 Polaroids of larger decorations hanging inside the city's cop cars.
If you can't tune off the office "noise" without the music, you've already got a serious attention deficit problem and listening to music isn't going to make it better.
Simple.
Uncle Sam sent me to the Persian Gulf, and all I got was this lousy Syndrome!
I can't say that I like this issue at all. The music companies have all the rights in the world to do whatever they want to their distributed media, but consumers should also expect that when they buy a product labled as a compact disc, that it can work in all compact disc players. The label at least makes this very clear.
"They've been testing this in Europe and they're experiencing less than a 1 percent return rate from consumers." [ from the article ]
I doubt that the common audio listener cares how their music is stored, as long as it works for them. It is not the medium or presentation, just the content.
Another issue is that if a user has data devices unsupported by the initial copyprotection schemes, that person would be FORCED to pirate the songs in order to play them, because the record company does not supply properly presented CD's or what have you to the consumer.
EG: Minidisks. If I want a minidisk version of some super duper boy band(*chills*) in the US, I would implicitly be forced to copy that content from another source, or suffer without it.
All in all, the way things are turning out, I can only fear that the next musical format released to the world will not be so friendly for people to use. There will always be hackers to break any system that will ever surface, but how do they expect to keep it simple for all the joe six-pack's of the world?
Bye!
Back in July, BMG caused an uproar over the bugs in its copy-protect scheme which rendered many CDs unplayable. Even given Universal's generous promise of unquestioned returns, this latest attempt to copy-protect seems likely to generate a lot of resentment.
It would be interesting to know what kind of copy-protect they're devising that results in such profoundly "unplayable" CDs. Some of the major players attempting to win the early lead in the copy-protection tech field include TTR Technologies and Midbar Tech.
CD Media World discusses how to create a copy-protected CD. Personally I wouldn't want to, but I think it's interesting to see the business maneuverings and keep abreast of the technological tricks they're trying out on us.
ancarett, historian and zombie gamer
all this is doing is preventing you from ripping cds or copying them digitally.
If you deperate to copy it, you could
a) record it onto a normal cassette tape, then copy the cassette to a cd
or
b) use the above suggestion and copy it direct via your sound card.
a bad thing, definitely, but not the end of the world.
Not playing on DVD players is a really bad move. Most DVD players are marketed as a home entertainment console. Plays movies plays music. I can really see people not having a CD player to play this music.
I don't see how you can be professional if you do not look professional.
The professional look comes from being professional.
Listening to music and wearing earphones at work signals that you care more about being entertained at all times than working.
.... As long as Universal charges a fair price. Say, $2-$3 per "uncopy-able" CD... If they charge more than that - then I won't purchase them. Although I really like the idea of buying several and then taking them back.... :o)
-- Windows security? Sure, which ONE would you like? -me
I'd better get busy stocking up so I can finance my Evil Empire(TM) by selling them on eBay.
Muah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!(TM)
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The only reason to be so adamant about stopping people from making MP3s is fear of losing money due to piracy. However, I've read before that the music industry actually saw sales increase during the time Napster was becoming popular. Whether or not it was due to the MP3 fad is debatable, but alienating your customers by giving them a product that ties their hands while they use it seems doesn't seem like the answer to me. I know I won't be buying any of these CDs and I'm willing to bet enough other people will be unwilling to buy these CDs that it will make a noticeable dent in sales. In addition, the people who are into pirating on a scale large enough to effect the music industry will only see this as a fun challenge to overcome.
Being able to prosecute under the DMCA should lead to some interesting cases. Organized groups of CD pirates will probably have a hard time defending themselves, but issues of consumer rights will be out in the open at every step of the way to chip away at the validity of the DMCA. What happened to fair use such as being able to make backup copies? Should the license we buy to listen to these CDs (since we don't actually own anything anymore), be able to tell us what hardware we can and cannot play the music with? Many people are using devices that these CD will not play on and will become annoyed when they find out they can only listen to certain music in certain rooms of their homes. And these people will be subject to prosecution simply for trying to get past technology that forces them to listen to music in the living room instead of on their computers while they work or in their MP3 compatible CD player in their car. I'm not so sure the American consumer will be as willing to be jerked around as the music industry hopes.
If I'm not mistaken, this kind of "copy protection" does its job by making the CD incompatible with the CD digital audio spec (messing with the error correction codes, etc).
If that's the case, and it still carries the little "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo, then they are violating their agreement with licensing that logo.
Fucking bastards.
-nate
I don't think it's illegal to be so stupid as to release 2 of your own products, one supposedly able to read the other, that don't work together.
To be really illegal, Sony would have to claim that the PS2 works with all music CDs (or advertise in such a way as to make anyone reading believe it), and claim that a CD works with PS2 when in fact that CD doesn't.
As long as it took me to write this post.
300 bucks worth of digital sound equipment and you'll have a set-up to rip.
Unless these jerks figure out some way to alter the way sound is heard there is NO fool proof way of stopping this. That includes MicroSkunk's "Digital Rights Operation System".
IF MS writes it, we'll crack it.
"It's not stealing if you don't get caught!"
Sure, we're not running to the store for the latest Backstreet Boys, or Brittney Spears album...
You, sir, are obviously a communist terrorist. Why would you not want to support our economy by buying the prepackaged crap^H^H^H^Hwonderful entertainment we have provided for you? Don't you know that BSB and Britney our our gift to mankind?
We're keeping an eye on you now!
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
I will probably have to rip them, copy them to a cdr, just to play on my ps2/dvd/cd player.
Thanks Universal!
I used to live in mid-Michigan and the music scene died an agonizing slow death, as clubs switched to karoke and dj's. Tell club/bar owners you'd be there more often if they'd switch to live music. :-)
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
My DVD player is my CD player. If the official music CD doesn't play on my system, then I'm going to burn a ripped copy. So, they can either release a CD that is compatible and I'll pay for it, or not.
"Just because you have a collection of porn of a particular girl does not make her your girlfriend", KingJoshi.
You can tell most of these people have never used a computer or played an MP3 and have no clue about how the world really works. Vivendi Universal USA whatever would be better off hiring a street smart kid with no business experience to run its companies than some ivory tower MBA executive who has never touched a computer or purchased a $19 CD at K Mart.
== Paul Rickard, Editor of The Microsoft Boycott Campaign ====
All these companies that are working so hard to prevent piracy are probably spending far more on combatting it than they would lose if it went totally unchecked. Piracy isn't new, it's just getting more hi-tech. All the enormous companies got big with piracy going on (and occasionally helping them), so it would probably be easier on them if they didn't waste money on law suits and R&D which people will always find a way around.
According to the article, the industry is claiming that record sales are up only 1% over last year.
Well, maybe it's because they haven't come out with anything *new* in the past year? Most of the music release on any major label is really only the same crap relabelled and repackaged (ie. boy bands, korn look-a-likes, the average mid-rock bands, and the typical adult contemporary).
This seems to be the only industry that can "ship" crap products and blame the consumer for not buying them. Wake up, idiots! Someone in one of these companies needs to grow balls and release some music that's different.
Give people what they want--or at least more choice--and maybe they'll buy something.
-brain
this is so dumb. I don't even have a stereo at home, I invested in getting good speakers etc to my computer instead, so I do everything on my computer. This means I won't play my cds. Bah, glad I don't buy mainstream music much, and I definatly won't buy universal. I'm sure there are more people out there like me who use their PC for everything.
I wonder if they did any reasearch into what devices people acctually use to play audio CDs. I know alot of people who don't even own a sterio and use thier computer or playstation to play thier audio CDs. Besides the obvious stupidity of the whole situation, they might be shooting themselves in the foot.
ender-iii
Your computer's CDROM drive uses error correction code/circuitry (ECC). The CD has information on it that messes with this and causes the CD not to play on the Computer, or even if it does and the CD is duplicated, sequences of 0s or 1s are written which can destroy your speakers (which cannot handle square waves) on playback.
Home entertainment systems, on the other hand, do not have the same ECC circuitry, and therefore, will not have a problem playing back the original CD. The only problem is that their speakers may also be blown in an attempt to play those duplicated CDs with the square waves.
I may be a bit off, but it's something along those lines.
You must have been very bad boys that you get something like this on christmas.
No shiny little music for you !
At least my ancestors were right when they decided to remain at home, everything turns to shit sooner or later.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
I have a DVD player and a reciever thats my dolby digital solution with movies. Thanks to the DVD playing CD's I don't need a CD player which saves me around 300 to 400$. If I can't put it in my DVD player then fuck it, it wont get bought or played.
The only "CD" player I own is in my truck, other than that it's my Mac's DVD drive playing my tunes or my home DVD player.
Looks like Universal lost a customer eh?
Artists don't need the megaexpensive advertising...
True, they just need what Brittney Spears has got. Doesn't hurt if they can sing either.
Let's say I buy the CD, open it, then return it. The company will just re-shrinkwrap it and re-sell it. They've lost what probably $.03 for the cost of printing the receipt, the cost of the plastic, and associated maintenance on those machines. Since the cost of CDs are marked way up, for arguments sake let's say $3.00 per CD. You would have to buy and return 100 CDs for them to even come close to considering that they may lose money. In my opinion most peoples time is worth more than that. (Of course I'm a little optimistic)
I think the previous posts about calling the FTC and issuing a complaint, that this is a deceptive practice, is far more productive.
Don't get me wrong, I think what they're doing is stupid and it should cost them, but spending 30 minutes to make someone lose $.03 seems futile.
Just plug your Hifi to your PC and rip from the Audio input on your sound card (most ripper let you do that so you can rip from tape or mini-disc).
I am already putting a few gigs MP3 from my CD as a protest (I have the orginals, so I don't think I am doing anything wrong). I might put my whole collection soon if they go on that crazy route.
I have already mostly stopped buying any CD (except from independant labels), I guess it won't be long before I start selling all my CDs and CD player. Mini-disc, laptop and internet will become my only means of purchasing music...
And no, I have no moral problem with that. I strongly believe musician should be paid for performance (live) not records.
Black holes occur when God divides by zero.
This is the most absurd thing I have heard in a long time. I listen to music at work all the time and I am quite productive.. more so than if I did not... simply becasue of the general office noise around me.
Okay everyone, I spent some time out at the Universal Music Group section of the Universal Music Studios website, and there's a fairly hefty list of music labels in this group.
Just saying you won't buy from Universal isn't enough. Here's the list I found:
A&M Records
Decca Record Company
Deutsche Grammophon
Geffen Records
Interscope Rercords
Island Def Jam Music Group
Jimmy and Doug's Farmclub.com
MCA Nashville
MCA Records
Mercury Records
Motown Records
Phillips
Polydor
Universal Records
Verve Music Group
I also went through their list of artists, and saw a shocking number of artists that I either currenly own CD's from, or want to purchase some or all from their discography.
My next quest is to find landmail addresses for all the record labels *and* the Universal Music Group, plus the RIAA, as well as the artists of UMG's that I listen to, and start writing a lot of letters stating my disappointment at what they're planning to do, and how it stands to completely wreck my ability to purchase and enjoy their music.
I don't have a "regular CD player". Not _one_. The CD player in my car is based on CD-Rom drive technology. I listen to my music on my computer, or I pipe the audio out straight to the stereo and listen on the big speakers. I listen to my headphones at work while I do my design documents, and that's to MP3's I ripped from CD's that I purchased.
Frankly, their decision sucks if they want me to keep purchasing music from their group. Simple as that.
- wally
I have said it before, and I will say it again. The music companies just don't get it! If the music quality was better, maybe people wouldn't mind paying $16USD to $20USD per cd, but the music quality _SUCKS_. Let's face it, Britney Spears wouldn't have made it in the 80s (if she was her current age now back then). She'd have to dress conservatively.
If the music companies want to lower piracy, _LOWER_ _THE_ _PRICE_ _OF_ _THE_ _CDS_. (Maybe if it is in all caps any record execs reading this will actually wake up.) The increase in piracy can be directly related to the increase in cd prices (and the poor quality of the music--note the sound quality might be good, but that doesn't make the music good quality music!). If you want to stop the piracy lower the prices to $10 or less! The record compaies CANNOT win this fight. Piracy will continue and will only increase. File sharing is up since Napster tookit's hit. The Music Companies need go back to college and retake (or just take) economics 101!
To the Music Companies:
STOP FIGHTING THE PIRACY WITHYOUR LAWYERS AND TECHNOLOGISTS. START FIGHTING IT WITH ECONOMICS--LOWER THE PRICE.
At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
I've got $1 on copy protection being broken 14 hours, 18 minutes after release.
The fact that this technology prohibits playing the CD on DVD players will present a problem. People out buying new home theater systems these days often leave out the CD player simply because the DVD player already plays CD's! Makes sense! Think of all the unhappy people popping new Universal CD's into their new DVD home theater setup this Christmas:)
Like eagles on pogo-sticks! -- Glottis
It seems obvious that the CD medium is a gaping hole in the recording industry's business model.
By making CD's that don't always play, they will turn people against CDs as a whole. It's looks like a standard FUD tactic.
Soon they'll introduce a 'better' medium with more capacity, other hype, and a player that is under industry control, like DVD without the security hole.
It's all a waste, people seem to like MP3's just fine. I don't like the quality myself, but I have no problem with the quality of sampled analog. A standard quality MP3 is no worse when ripped from analog than from a cdda track, and it's just a tiny bit more work.
They can kill CD's, and they will, but they can't kill the LINE OUT jack!
Music and data CDs are bascially 1's and 0's imprinted on a disk. In theory could someone be able to use cloneCD or Nero (or other CD burning software) to burn an exact copy of the music disk? If so could possably strip the music content through software and store them as Mp3's.
Has anyone tried this?
This is starting to look more and more like what happend during the 1920s with Prohibition. As soon as the government made liquor illegal, it increased the criminal trafficking of it. Same way here, more and more people are going to turn towards illegal copies of the cds just so they can play it on their CD players or computers.
_______________________________
"I'm not Conceited...I'm just a realist..."
But the whole point of stoping joe listener from copying his cds is to make sure his friend buys a copy also. If the record industry produces CDs that joe listener can listen to in the first place, he will return it AND his friend won't buy a copy. And the retail store complains about the returns. In the end, the record company is much worse off than if they had done nothing. They are shooting themselves in the foot.
Almost every computer game used to come with annoying copy protection schemes. When legit buyers can't play their game, they complain. How many code wheels are still around? The companys learned it was worse overall if they used protection that caused problems for legit users.
Uninnovate - Only the finest in engineering.
If you do find yourself in the situation where you bought a broken CD and the store would not give you a refund, do up a simple flyer and hand them out to people entering the store. Explain to them that they should be very cautious about what they buy, because there's no guarantee the CDs they buy will work on their CD players, and if they don't, the store will not cooperate in giving a refund.
If enough people did this, at enough record stores, maybe the stores would vote with their wallets for us. I don't know if there are any legal issues in doing this, but it is free speech after all, and we might as well use it while we still have it.
Jason.
I bought tones of CD-R, but I have not burned one illegal music CD. Decline in record sales have multiple factors, and blank CD have multiple usage; correlating these two doesn't make much sense. If there are $2-4/song online mp3 sales, I would buy them. A lot more people would spend the money to obtain legal copies. The paralell is true for VHS, most people still buy legal copies of VHS.
I never understood why most DVD's are the same price as CD's now. I can get BASEketball from Fry's for 14 buck, but it costs me 17 bucks to get the new Rob Zombie CD that only has 11 songs on it.
Lets look at the specs.
BASEketball DVD
1) 2 hours long
2) High quality video AND audio
3) Sturdy case with brief guide to chapters etc..
4) Movies cost a hell of a lot more to make than albums
Now Rob Zombie CD
1) 60 minutes long not counting the 5 minute pause between House of 1000 Corpses and the hidden song after it
2) Very breakable case that came from amazon pre-cracked for me.
3) High quality audio NO video
4) Took Rob Zombie all of a few weeks to record in a studio
Just why do CD's cost so much anyway? I can't see any logic in it at all.
Aren't sound drivers available that saves the sound as WAV files. There are some for windows and if it is not there for Linux I can write one.
After having the original quality wave file, how hard it is to burn a new CD ?
Ripping one of these new disc's is more of a nuisance than non-protected disc's, but it's still very easy.
What you'll need are the following two pieces of hardware: a stand-alone cd player with digital output (either coax or optical), and a sound card, such as the Audigy Plantinum, that supports digital input.
With those two items, it is very easy to just hit play and record to make a perfect digital copy of the CD. End of story.
Since CD-ROM players won't be able to play the CDs directly, you will have to rip them (with smart software) to make them playable. This is ironic as the whole point of the system was to make them uncopyable, here instead we find that people will be encouraged to make a copy in otder to use them!?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Very implausible.
So a label has announced that it will cripple all of its CDs... Did they announce that they will be cutting their prices in half to make up for the decreased functionality? I doubt it. So now all Universal CDs are effectively more expensive because you get less for the same price. Where do these guys learn their economics, from drug dealers? Get people hooked on the "good" stuff, then cut down on the amount of actual product they get for their money...
The simple solution, as others have pointed out, is not to buy the crap. More than that though, don't buy anyone else's crap either. Don't buy any CDs, DVDs, e-books, etc. Don't go to movies, don't rent movies, don't order pay-per-view, don't subscribe to premium cable channels, or possibly even cable itself. Don't buy anything because of ads on TV, radio, or billboards, in magazines, etc. Cut back on consumer electronics purchases, buy only used books, don't go to sporting events. If you do buy anything, only buy it when it is so cheap that someone must be taking a loss somewhere. The only way to change things is to get the entire entertainment industry to rethink its business model. Otherwise, we will keep getting less value.
If that is too drastic a step for you, then return the CDs right after you buy them:
Universal told retailers that it would honor refunds on all returned discs -- even for CDs that have been opened.
We're in this mess because the entertainment industry is driven by maximization of profits through decreasing value and not by delivering quality products at reasonable prices. Through marketing and legislation, they have fought to preserve this flawed model, which will succeed as long as people remain mindless drones who buy anything someone is trying to sell them. Yes, I realize that there really is no hope...
by far the easiest thing in the world to do, providing you have a sound card in your pc, is to connect your cd player device's output cable into your sound cards input socket. Press play on your cd player device and record the incoming music to wav/mp3. voila, all security buypassed! This has been verified to work on 17 cds that are copy protected with the new measures. For as list of such cd's visit http://fatchucks.com/corruptcds/ Its a wonder who thinks of the security tricks for the music Industry.
..do NOT support the RedBook CD format standard in some meaningful way.
This holiday season, as I enter record stores, I ask "Do all of the CD's here conform to the Redbook Standard and if not, what are you doing to segregate or label those that don't?"
When I don't get the right answer from the clerk, I ask to speak with the manager and I tell them why I am leaving and why I won't shop in their store any more.
You have the power to change things and you are probably sitting on your source of power right now. Err..You know what I mean, its your wallet!
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
I have a whole pile of CD's in the office, which I listen to on CD-ROM. Perfectly legal. If I can't expect to do this when I buy a new CD, then I'm simply going to stop buying new CDs.
So do I. I'm sitting here at my desk and I've got 20 CDs (that I bought) that I play at work.
And at home I've got an iMac for my son and a DVD/CD/CD-R/CD-RW player.
So basically, I have no choice now but to buy OTHER MUSIC than that label - SINCE I CAN'T PLAY IT ON ANYTHING.
Economics - the art of waving the dollars you were going to spend in a store in the merchant's face as you tell him why you're taking them to his competitor across the street.
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
I first went to Fatchucks to see which cd's are currently being copy protected.....
I then hopped on Morpheus (musiccity.com) and typed in the name of the album that was copy protected....
guess what?!
All the ones that I tried are there. So what does that tell you Mr. RIAA....?
www.slightlycrewed.com - Because aren't we all?
When asked how customers would feel about not being able to play CDs they bought in devices that should be able to play them Unverisal's top exec responded, "Fuck 'em... so when does this interview start?"
Unfortunately, phenomenon like Napster and the ease of `ripping and burning' are causing artists and record companies real harm,'' said Hilary Rosen, head of the Recording Industry Association of America. ``The unprecedented amount of music being copied is hurting the industry.
Leaving aside the obvious argumentation flaws here (can they prove it's hurting the industry? Was there a sudden upswing in record sales when Napster shut down?), you'd think the RIAA would choose as a spokesbeing someone who knew the plural of "phenomenon" is "phenomena."
"Real harm?" No, possibly causing increased minor economic headaches in a time of recession to an industry which has serious anti-trust issues and a wholly unrealistic pricing model.
By the way, has it occurred to any of them that one can just rip the CD as audio - through RCA plugs! - master it on computer, and then have a totally copy-protection-free image? After all, the kids who chip in to buy one CD and a bunch of blanks and sell them at school aren't audiophiles who can tell the difference between DDD and DAD anyway.
There seems to be a more obvious solution, take SPDIF or optical output from a decent amp into a decent sound card (SoundBlaster Live! with Livedrive springs to mind) and rip to MP3 from there. As far as I can see, if it plays then recording the sound should remove the copy protection. I realise that strictly speaking you have to go digital --> analogue --> digital but this way should minimise loss of quality, especially since MP3 is lossy anyway. (I can't tell the difference between WAV and MP3 but I know someone who claims to be able to. He's a professional music producer, engineer and DJ so if he says that he can, I believe him). And remember, it only takes a few people doing this to get a track out to the downloading public and the nature of file sharing will result in it being copied and made available many times.
As a professional computer programmer, I have discovered that listening to music while coding in no way hinders my productivity.
;)
Aye but reading slashdot at work does. At least it does for me!
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
I'm calling the FTC as I post this message. This is getting out of hand and the FTC is supposed to be keeping an eye on this stuff for us. I think a nice /. response to the FTC might get some attention in this area.
FTC Consumer Response
1-877-382-4357
Press option 1 to talk to a conselor.
Info you need includes:
The name of the company - RIAA (Record Industry Association of America)
Company address - 1330 Connecticut Avenue N.W., Suite 300
Company city, state and zip - Washington, D.C., 20036
Company phone - 202-775-0101
They will also ask you for your contact information and the complaint. IMHO these "protected" CDs should be at the very least labled so that I know I'm not going to be able to use them in 75% of my hardware, and you know the retail chains aren't going to give you your money back.
Thanks to http://fatchucks.com/corruptcds for the info.
Dissenter
"There is no knowledge that is not power."
2 thing, a "logical" rant and a suggestion on the technological side:
[RANT]
After that they'll accuse people of being dishonnest downloading MP3s and burning CD-Rs to play the music.
What, now I will have to buy the album, pay tax on the album, pay RIAA tax, buy a cd-r, pay tax on the cd-r, pay RIAA extra tax on the media, then transferring the non-functionning CD to computer, lose quality, write the cd to cd-r so my sony player can work with it...and the steps goes on for every new cd bought.
I'm sorry but my vinil player still play vinil CDs, I don't see why I should be penalized as a consumer for all this crap. They should invest their money in a new buisness scheme that would make people buy more cds (I.E. offer them the compilation THEY want for the amazingly overpriced media for a start),
[/RANT]
While at it, if you're planning on changing the hardware altogether to make it compatible with your new format how about MAKING A NEW FORMAT that would make people jump on your new technology, you know, INNOVATION, that way you could introduce whatever crap you want on top of it for protecting your stuff, while being completely compatible with ALL players, that would be a win win situation for both you and the consumers. Something like DVD audio or whatever, more quality, better D/A components, more storage, better compilations, more for your money and more for the consumer.
Man.. if every buisness would act like you do, I'd probably wouldn't be able to read my 360K floppies on my good ol XT... (whisper, badsectors) oh wait...
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
There is no such thing as a high-end car cd-player, I have been through the whole car stereo phase. When you spend over 3000 dollars on a HOME cd-player then come and complain.
Cowardly Audiophile
this kind of "copy protection" does its job by making the CD incompatible with the CD digital audio spec (messing with the error correction codes, etc).
Correct.
But even if they don't carry the CD logo, the crux of the issue is that they're intentionally damaging the product before it's sold.
If any other manufacturer intentionally sold defective merchandise, there would be lawsuits galore (think Firestone!) - I'm waiting for someone to realize this, and start a suit.
Mod this one up baby!! WAY UP!!!!
"Universal told retailers that it would honor refunds on all returned discs -- even for CDs that have been opened." So go out and buy this horrible CD [Fast & Furious -- More Music], open it outside, and then go back in the store and get your money back. You're out 5 minutes of your time and you've boosted the CD's return rate -- sending a clear signal that consumer acceptance (complacency) is not as strong as they'd hoped.
I highly doubt they will put the CDDA logo on their CD's.
Its too bad they are doing this, because the likely outcome is that people will rip to MP3 using an analog method, and then return the CD whereas before they probably would have kept it.
The RIAA continues to prove its incompetence in dealing with the digital age.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
sub UNIVERSAL::copyprotect { print STDERR "No protection for me!"; }
I really don't see what the problem is.
I am just wondering if Universal gets to read all of our Ranting... Maybe they might get a CLUE... -me
Linux -- the Ultimate Windows Service Pack
Instead of worrying about where we can't play these new cd's in, why not support MP3.com??
;-)
Or, if that is no good, why not hack into them, steal there stuff and ditribute it??
In Germany alone, one survey by market researcher GfK found that blank CD sales jumped 129 percent this year. Purchases of pre-recorded music dropped 2.2 percent in the same period.
This year in the US, the sale of matchs went up 57% indicating that teenage smoking is up over 200%.
For those that didn't get my example. How does that percent of blank CD sales mean anything as far as "pre-made CD" sales goes. People use blank CDs for all sorts of things. I have friends who make backups of there applications on CD once a day, 7 days a week. So, a spool of CD-Rs can go pretty quickly.
Back to the article. This is a difficault thing to stop, even telling retailers you won't be shopping there for the holidays doesn't work as expected. There are still a ton of dumb people out there that will buy an "approved CD player" if need be. Its only a matter of time until someone figures out a way to rip from theses.
How will computer hardware vendors handle this one. Think of the number of returns over something this simple. Personally, to make a point. I would force them to accept the return and give me my money back.
until (succeed) try { again(); }
The US recording industry actually tried several times to impose a protective royalty / tax on blank tapes! The money was supposed to go into a fund to be divided among recording artists and especially, studios, through a system like ASCAP and BMI.
They first wanted to put a tax an audio cassettes in the 1960's. Later they wanted to impose the same royalty on video tapes. Ya know that the only reason people buy those things is to make copies of copyrighted works, right?
Imagine, if they had gotten away with it, you have paid a royalty to Michael Jackson for the right to use the tape that you recorded your baby's first words on. Luckily. at least in those days, the RIAA didn't get what they wanted.
Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
1. Buy the CD with a credit card.
2. Walk out of store
3. Return within 24 hours and demand a reversal of charges - this shows up as a black mark on credit, costs credit card companies, means more paper trail, and makes more of hassle.
4. Report it to your State Attorney General as fraudulent advertising (CD that plays) and damaged/defective goods. They investigate store and CD manufacturer.
5. Write a letter to the editor in your local paper about how that music label sells defective CDs that you can't play on your CD player.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
There will be a temporary delay while the protection is broken before binary data copies are available. Excellent analogue copies will be available immediately. Bit image copies and off-the-books pressings are not prevented so the bulk pirates are unaffected.
Since Apple has been running "Rip. Mix. Burn." ads for some time, Apple ought to make their CD drives and software read and error-correct these things. In fact, if they don't, Apple could be sued for false advertising, since they're directly advertising a use for their product that it can't do.
All we ever hear about is how computer "hackers" who copy these CD's and distribute them are destroying the industry. Industry, heh.
Out of all the arguments I've heard on their side, I have *NOT ONCE* heard anything about the price of music these days.
Have you ever heard any of these big time vendors mention anything about the fact that if you goto virgin, or any other store, you're going to pay 18 bucks for one of these CD's? That's outrageous.
I can't stand walking into virgin, spending 60 bucks, and walk out with three pieces of plastic!
Yes, I believe in supporting the artist ten fold. But the fact is that the artist gets something like 75 cents from each CD that is bought.. I'm outraged. (I could be wrong about the exact price, but I'm guestimating.)
The fact is, the distributers/corporate labels are GREEDY. If the CD's were at a good price, like say, $6-8, then the amount of "copyright violations" would be reduced to very small amounts.
The problem is not with the audience, but with the greedy corporate owners. They just want to make more money, and the CDROM/Audio CD reader, etc. manufacturers must listen to the people who the industry depends on.
-Sase
P.S. A Thought to chew on. I still own over 200 legit CD's, that I bought, and I still buy them today. If I really like a CD, I've always bought it. It's nice to have a physical copy with all the booklets, etc. that come with it. BUT, I still download/burn music that I like/want to sample.
P.P.S. HEY! What about all those people who burn CD's that can only be found online? IE Tapers. A not-so-small group of people who *legally* make tapes of concerts (IE Dave Matthews Band, Phish, etc.) and distribute them online. These people, once they've obtained these copies, burn them to CD's so they can listen to them at home. A process that is 100% legal and *SUPPORTED* by the artist. What about them? What are they going to do? They'll have these recordings... with nothing to play them on. HOsh posh.
------------
Sase
"It's the opposite of that."
Forget small claims court, at least for now.
Call your local investigative TV reporters and consumer advocates and explain how Best Buy sold you a bum CD and won't remedy the situation. Tell them that you want to warn others about this problem - or there will be a lot of even-more-angry-than-usual teenagers this Christmas.
If you want to be really nasty, print up some flyers and hand them out at the front door. Tell the TV stations when you will be there, and insist that a real cop (not a rent-a-cop) is the one who tells you that you must stand on the sidewalk 1.2 miles away instead of immediately in front of the store... but don't push it too far.
(Why do you think these big chains like "big box" architecture? That parking lot is all private property and they *can* eject from the parking lot, but not from adjacent sidewalks. Since many of the lots don't have adjacent sidewalks, they'll claim you have to stand in the street. The city cops, on the other hand, will know (or can find out) where local law allows you to protest when commercial property does not have a safe sidewalk.)
A good time for this would be this Saturday afternoon - peak pre-Christmas rush.
As others have pointed out, the CD producer did not sell you the defective product, your local store did. They also don't have as much to lose as the local store - if you can get the media involved (and make it clear that you aren't trying to rip off anyone, just play the damn CD some stock equipment) you might not just get your money back, you might force BB (and other merchants) to consider banning all "copyprotected"/unplayable CDs because a single refused return may cost a *lot* of bad PR.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
You are not a good reader, my friend. I stated in my message that my state of professionalism is not determined by other people. If someone determines that I do not look professional, that does not mean I am not professional. There is an idea that one's level of professionalism is determined by his peers. This is a very dependent person indeed. One's level of professionalism should be determined by who he is as a person. Some of the most capable people I have ever met have been those people who I would have naturally disregarded because of their appearance. Some of the most slimy people I have ever met have been those people who look very snappy indeed. This is a trick that many evil(tm) sales people have used to lure those with weak minds. Look professional, and they will think you are professional. How shallow can you get? I am not saying there is nothing to be said for looking professional, but when looking professional happens at the loss of being professional, or when looking professional becomes so subjective that you cannot even consider new ideas or possibilities in life, then you have created a sorry alternate reality for yourself.
Have a nice day...
Or, at least have as nice a day as you have ever known.
I worry about this because I basically see three scenarios:
1. Complete RIAA victory (we do our ripping by decoding to analog an re-digitizing). This would be an absolute nightmare. Please, people, don't present this as a "solution"--it is cowardly surrender.
2. Music becomes like warez: Perfect digital duplication is feasible only with some cracking skill and/or special equipment (like a CD player with a digital out, souncard with a digital in). Several elite CD cracking groups spring up all over the world, and when they manage to make perfect rips of a CD, they encode "canonical" MP3s, and distribute them through all the regular channels with fairly high quality. This wouldn't be so bad, but I worry that these good rips would be diluted with crappy analog ones, or deliberately defective MP3s seeded by the suits to polute the pool.
3. There is an easy (though illegal-in-DCMA-land) ripping program that restores the sound from the CD in software. Then, things would go back to the way they are now, except MP3 traders would be breaking two laws instead of one. Only if 3 comes to pass will I even consider buying a copy-protected CD. (One observation about the illegality: you're not writing illegal software if the software is intended to make the new disks playable on a computer. I figure that making them CD-ROM playable and making them rippable go hand in hand.)
So my question is, how close are we to 3? How realistic it?
Thank God!! Its about time that they do away with the OLD cd format! I prefer MP3s anyway... and this will just make them more popular.
-- Betting on the survival of the media industry is a serious risk. I advise investing elsewhere.
I guess if the CD won't play on the device I want to use it with I'm going to be forced to find a way to rip the tracks and burn them onto my own cd so I can listen to it where I want.
I hate to do it, because I know how much "they" hate it when I rip audio tracks off "their" cds but if its gotta be done, its gotta be done.
Dozings.com -- Its kinda funny... If you're as crazy as me.
I wonder what Microsoft, Apple, Creative, Phillips, Diamond, and the makers of other products associated with ripping/burning to/from mp3/wma think of this. Are they speaking up?
The basic issue is intellectual property rights, and how this applies to the artists who perform the music, and the record companies who market it. I'm not seeing much discussion about here, so I thought I'd do some research and post some more background.
The interesting thing to me is that recording artists and the record companies have vastly different opinions about the availability of music on the internet.
In general, artists would like to be able to sell their own music on the web -- however, they do want that music to be sold, not given away or stolen.
Artists who don't have labels are free to put their own stuff out there for download. They also have the ability to sell it on personally-made CDs or other media, although at this time they have no way to safeguard this media once it gets into someone else's hands.
Artists who are signed to a record company want to be able to market their music on the internet without going through their record companies (therefore getting the proceeds themselves, and not giving the record companies their 'cut'), presumably because the record companies are predatory. Predatory aspects of the record companies, for example, are a large part of Courtney Love's and LeAnn Rimes' opinions (below).
The record companies not only want to prevent 'their' CDs from showing up on morpheus, etc, they also want to prevent recording artists from putting other tracks onto the web for sale or for free. If artists could do this outside of their contracts, the record companies would of course lose money and customers.
Therefore, record companies want to prevent their CDs from being ripped or copied (hence this article), AND they want to prevent their artists from getting around their contracts by selling directly to consumers.
All in all, I think the record companies are RIGHT to try to keep their product from being pirated. However, not only is this basically impossible, but the MEANS they are going about it is going to cause a huge backlash and only hurt the record companies and the artists further.
Here's some more info:
From Intellectual Property Is an Oxymoron:
"There's an important difference between authors and publishers that the current intellectual property system ignores. Authors still perform a valuable service by creating intellectual property. Publishers perform an increasingly useless service, copying information that individuals who own computers connected by the Internet can copy on their own...
"...Publishers have become useless middlemen rendered obsolete by digital technology. The laws of supply and demand are driving their profit margins to zero... Notably, nearly 30 states are now suing the top record labels alleging CD price fixing."
Some artists' opinions:
Courtney Love: "Today I want to talk about piracy and music. What is piracy? Piracy is the act of stealing an artist's work without any intention of paying for it. I'm not talking about Napster-type software. I'm talking about major label recording contracts. " (from her speech to the Digital Hollywood online entertainment conference, given in New York on May 16, as quoted on Salon.com.)
Business Week, writing about the Recording Artists Coalition (RAC) testimony at a Senate hearing in April:
"Musical artists represented by RAC want to be able to sell their music on the Internet without going through the bureaucracy of record labels. While many artists supported the copyright-infringement lawsuit the RIAA brought against Napster, they now want labels to aggressively award licensing deals to legitimate independent music Web sites in addition to the labels' own online services. That's something that isn't happening as fast as artists hoped."
a variety of artists at a Senate hearing in September, including Courtney Love, Don Henley, and LeAnn Rimes.
Alanis Morrissette (from Billboard.com): "'Artists today are not being given a chance to experience the normal ebbs and flows that result in an artist's evolution.'
"In Morissette's opinion, the Internet at one time offered great promise. Such companies as MP3.com and Napster, she said, 'offered a link between artists and audiences and was a way for less-established artists to have a forum to reach those who will be touched by their art.' Now, she said, those same companies have been 'litigated, vilified, and ultimately consolidated to the point where these opportunities [don't exist].' "Pointing to Napster's relationship with Bertelsmann, and the acquisition of MP3.com and Emusic by Vivendi Universal, Morissette said that the Internet has become 'a bottleneck for creativity,' because the media conglomerates are attempting to apply traditional, profit-oriented business models to the new medium."
If you won't buy them they won't stock them. Basic business 101. These CDs are a corrupted version of the Redbook specification, and should be called that, "Corrupted" Over the past two years the recording industry has been winning the war of words. To even discuss "copy-protected" cds, implies the acceptance of the term, which is in fact should be refered to as "corrupted".
The LA Times has a quote from the CEO of the company that operates Tower Records states they will refund the money if need be. The Fast and Furious CD is supposed to have a sticker that designates that it is a protected CD. Boycott-riaa.com has a list known corrupted CDs as well as Fatchucks.
Perhaps a better alternative to buying then returning for refund, is to tell the store manager you will not purchase ANY copy protected discs, and then don't.
To adapt an apropos headline from another site:
Attention Universal: There is a Fat Lady at the door who wants to sing for you.
This is more gasping from a great giant that is slowly falling. It may take them years to do so, and they won't cease to exist when they fall apart, but the core of this industry is collapsing.
Why? Just my opinion. I and many of my friends are in a significant target demographic group for the music industry. But I bought my last cd more than a year and a half ago, with the sole exception of a $20 gift certificate I got from work. I don't see anyone at work under the age of 30 buying cds. I've spent somewhere between $500-800 on Xmas gifts for family and friends this year, and I have bought precisely -zero- music items. Why not? The question would be better posed as "why?" When there are so many avenues of free access to music on the internet, as well as ways to appease one's conscience, why would I or anyone else choose to buy a unit of music that is grossly overpriced, physically limited, contains material I don't want, and benefits the artist only minimally? And frankly, my friends and family don't want to get the damn things for Xmas.
Music cds are quickly approaching irrelevance. Most folks I know have some easy way of accessing MP3s. Even my Luddite relatives from central Washington get one of their friends to burn a cd full of mp3s and pop it into their dvd player. The receptionist at work (the one who opens all of the email trojans) gets her Tony Bennett fix from a friend in AZ who mails her a new recorded cd every month. And me? I vote with my dollars -- I'm spending my former-recorded-music budget on seeing live stuff locally.
Give it up, folks. The Fat Lady is already into the Imbroglio, and quickly approaching the Finale Ultimo.
Jon
I think not...(*poof*)
Buy the cd
Rip the cd
return the cd for refund b/c wont play in dvd player
Save self purchasing CD at all!
I'm thinking about opening a CD Shop where I make a copy of every CD that is copyable and sell it with the original. Legal? You bet.
Universal gives fuckall about small shops that simply carry their product. A friend of mine owns a small record shop (which will remain nameless) in southeast Michigan. He's been told numerous times that until he is reporting to Soundscan they will not support him in any way with posters, promos, anything that will help him sell music. It seems that Universal is simply interested in creating market share, not selling music, and they will use any little store to do so. You also need to remember that the difference between a large store like Virgin and a small store is the owner. A small store where the owner puts in 12 hour days 7 days a week doesn't have the same interest that the VCs starting up a place like Virgin do. The Virgin folks are (above all) interested in making money via their buisness, which happens to be a retail music enterprise. Most small shops are owned and run by owners who love the music enough to try and make a life out of it, whatever they can make. Most small stores don't turn a profit for two to three years, if they are even around that long. Reasons like those are why you should look favorably on independant buisnesses standing up to the corporate machine, even if they do have to sell some of their product to survive. It's turning the machine against itself. -Steve
I'm surprised that they're being so laxed about protecting what is theirs. I trust that in the future they'll get back on track and render these CDs completely unplayable.
Check out the Wired article on the workshop. Preston Padden, head of government relations for Disney, is quoted as saying :
This from the company that bought off the politicians to change the law in the 90s and so prevent Mickey Mouse going out of copyright in 2004. This from the company that appropriates others' intellectual property and claims it as their own (Snow White, Aladdin, Christmas Carol, countless others). They are thieves and liars.
Note that not a single work has gone out of copyright in the US since the first world war. If the corps get their way, nothing will ever go out of copyright again. We will still have a culture, but you'll need to purchase a license to partake of it.
My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
Great, if they make it so that I can no longer rip CD's, then they'll never get another dime from me. This isn't because of some active decision to be a political dissenter, but rather because I don't listen to CD's anymore. I buy them and use them as masters for ripping to MP3 which is what I actually listen to.
Actually, this isn't really true, because my desire to hear new music won't fade. So, what will likely end up happening is that I'll still rip CD's and take the legal risk (which will be fairly minimal given that there will be millions of criminals just like me). The only major impact is that the development of new products that are based on ripped music will cease to happen. So it will negatively impact the economy.
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If newer computer cd-players won't see these new "copy protected" cds because they are too sensitive...what about the old single and dual (maybe even up to quad) speed cd roms?
I've got a *ton* of them about the shop here, gathering dust. Not much good for anything else but playing music cds with.
The story should read:
Universal to Degrade All CDs
Universal Plans to degrade the quality of all CDs using that crappy system that degrades the sound quality of CDs but which many 'experts' claim is un detectable to the human ear (except as maybe a kind of 'lossy quality' feel. This will also have the side effect of rendering them unplayable on Macs, DVD Players, PS2s, and some CD Players (and all *nix's, BeOS's and infact every other oparating system/computer apart from MS Windows.). And it will encourage people to rip more MP3s I bet.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I'll be glad to buy these copy-protected CDs as long as the labels lower the prices. Right now I pay 16.99-18.99 for a brand new CD of which I can make mutiple copies for play on my computer, in my DVD player, in my car, and on mix CDs that I make for my own use. Personally, I think CDs are already too expensive. But if I buy a CD that I can only play on my stereo, not my computer and not my DVD player, and I can't copy a song from that CD to add to my own mix CD, then I don't feel I should have to pay as much for it. If the labels charge the same price, then I get less utility for the same buck. Hmmmmm, now that I put it that way, the recording industry is beginning to sound like a monopolist (or, actually, an oligopolist), providing less utility for each dollar spent than a free market would at the same point on the producer's marginal cost curve. Maybe we should encourage the labels to bring this crap on, so the DoJ can go after them and start regulating them. The RIAA would love that, wouldn't they?
When he buys the Bose Wave Radio/CD player, she sends it back saying, "we can't afford that!" I don't know why, but that's just how she works!
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
It looks like we're going to have to boycott Universal Music. Don't buy any more of their products or any products you know are affiliated with them. This is the only way to let the message out that we want control over the music we buy. I, for one, will be boycotting Universal, and getting as many people as possible to do the same. Please do likewise.
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
since I bought my iBook and iPod, I have bought
more CDs in the past month than in the past two
years.
The RIAA is stupid.
This summer while my friends and I were hiking on the dunes at the beach, my car was broken into and my CD collection, among many other things, was stolen. My homeowner's insurance covered most of the things that were stolen: the backpacks, the computer and board games that I'd forgotten to take out of the back before we left, the CD binders, my Discman and its cassette adapter. However, the car stereo and the CDs were considered to be part of the car, and since I didn't have theft coverage on the car, I could not claim them.
(Don't ask me why the Discman, which was actually being used as part of the stereo system, was covered while the CDs were not.)
With ~100 CDs @ ~$15 each, I found myself out $1500. Somewhat luckily, I rip all my albums to MP3, so I was able to make inferior quality replacements. But I don't want to face this dilemma in the future.
My solution: now when I buy an album, in addition to encoding it to MP3, I burn an exact copy. Now I can carry the copies with me, and keep the originals at home for security. If the copies get stolen, I can claim the $.20 or so per CD-R, and make new copies. If the originals are stolen from my home, they're covered on my homeowner's (Although I should look at my policy and make sure of that...).
Insurance should not be the only way to protect myself from theft. I am not breaking copyright laws by making a personal copy, but the burglars are breaking the law by stealing. I refuse to be punished for someone else's crime. Copy-protected CDs prevent me from protecting my own interests in a law-abiding fashion. Thus I refuse to buy.
In fact, to make a point, I think I will buy a number of Universal CDs and immediately return them as defective without leaving the store.
Not surprisingly this article fails to point out that although blank CD sales are higher than recorded CD sales, most of those CD's are being purchased by corporations. When i worked at Revenue Canada, we bought thousands of blank CD's for backups, and that was just one office. I would wager that most other companies are buying similar amounts for backing up data for users and themselves alike.
Hmmm...so, because album sales are up, that means piracy is also up...er...and singles are down not because people are smartening up to the fact that they're a rip off, but because albums sales are up...meaning piracy is not down, but up...down...um...up-down...around town...up up down down...can't tell my ass from a hole in the ground...
Hey, it kind of makes sense when you think like a suit! Try it!
Do we all know what to do yet?
Well, first of all, if the CD has a warning label that says it won't play on your computer, don't buy it. On the other hand, if it does, I say buy it.
Buy them, lots of them. Try to listen to them on your computer, then when they don't work, try to return them. Tell them you don't own a CD player except for the one on your computer and that you cannot play it. This of course gets very messy because all stores that sell CD's have express policies against returning of opened discs (for copyright reasons once again). If you are insistent enough and explain the problem to them, they will eventually take it back.
Now, at this point your local store now has an opened CD. What are they doing to do with it? Well, in all likelyhood they'll try to return it to the manufacturer because they cannot sell the opened copy. If the manufacturer refuses to return it, then all the stores are going to raise hell with them because the new copy protection is costing them money if they are eating those unusable CD's.
If the manufacturer does accept it back, the manufacturer then either tosses the CD in the trash as a loss, or they repackage. If they repackage it, this costs them additional money before that CD goes back to the store. Even if does go back to the store, it could still wind up in the hands of another computer user who will start the loop over again.
Eventually manufacturers will solve this problem by clearly labeling all CD's as being unplayable on a computer, in which case people are now clear about what they are getting into, and many will likely avoid it, reducing profits for the manufacturer of the CD.
The irony in all of this though is that ultimately copy protection of CD's is going to cost the companies WAY more money than it saves. Less people will buy their CD's because they won't work where they want to listen to them. People will instead find clever hacks to work around the copy protection system and the CD's will still get ripped. Everybody will get their music from Gnutella and the like and the RIAA will create a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Conspiracy theory moment: maybe that's their plan. Intentionally do things to drive down CD sales to make their case to the government for new laws, and then go for the jugular of fair use and forever wipe out the balance of copyright law.
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Obviously I need to use tags.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
Indeed, blank CDs now outsell recorded discs in Europe and Canada, according to one label executive.
What does that have to do with the price of beans in China? Yeah, I know, they'll put their spin on the issue -- I just can't believe they think that drawing a conclusion from this will fly with anyone.
they can't stop us from doing what we used to in the 80's - record from a radio broadcast.
In fact, with the system's available today, it's even easier to record right to your friggin' CD-R.
No, it's not high fidelity, but you know what - it beats their assinine copyright protection just as easily as recording through several devices and I'm willing to sacrifice the quality to prove a fscking point.
They can't stop us from ripping - all they can do is make us more inventive when it comes to how we do it. And in the end, their own schemes are going to "byte" them in the ass.
-------
I don't have a solution, but I certainly admire the problem.
i have not come across any of those CDs ont he list, but at the college radio station i work at i saw a CD this weekend that said "WILL NOT PLAY IN A COMPUTER". it is the new Einsturzende Neubauten "Strategies Against Architecture III". it's a CD totally worth buying for the incredible booklet/package, but just out of curiosity i tried it and it was 100% happy in a few Macs. i have heard somewhere that some of the "junk toc files" they use to confuse some computers dont always tricks macs. tonight if i think of it there is a Dell running windows i can get to and see what happens. interesting this article specifically mentioned Macs and PS2 and DVD players. maybe the old method only fooled windows?
Now exactly what percentage of total sales to CD singles represent? 1% Maybe? Less than 5% I'm sure. Hardly indicative of the sky falling. As to the flat sales, that doesn't mean they're *losing* money, nor does it mean that people are buying less, just that people aren't buying more. Is it crazy to think that people are happy with the amount of music that they are buying?
Here's to editorial integrity.
Fat Chuck's listed Gorillaz as a corrupt CD, but I was able to rip it with no problem. It is a promotional copy, and may have been pressed before the actual release.
I'm guessing you were at DragonCon this year, in Atlanta. Am I right?
I would love to think I'd take them to small claims court, but frankly, hitting them with the credit card charge is more, er, bang for the buck. That's $25 bucks a pop when the credit card company hits them with a charge. Just make sure to repeat "the CD was defective" and don't buy it from a small record store.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
WIPO is coming to a country near you. That whole, it's 's seemed like a really clever move a few years ago but it's not going to be that easy in the future. You get a large number of countries signed on board, then they apply pressure on those who don't through threats of sanctions, etc. WIPO is where that starts.
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Do you listen to music in your car?
:/
Do you watch movies in your car?
Thought so...
I'm sick of these typical "I'm old and not happy with my job situation so let's blame the downturn in the economy on those 'crazy' 20-somethings who listen to that music all day and are eccentric and don't wear a suit to work". You know that people not wearing ties to work anymore collapsed the economy..
Really, I think that even the record industry didn't expect the various copy protections to really work. What they're doing is building an easily hackable content protection system so that they can prosecute MP3 traders under the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA.
Ahh... A criminal charge can be filed against anyone who attempts to traffic a circumvention device, right?
Does it matter if you're selling the device like Elcomsoft, or can you give away circumvention devices as long as you're not profiting?
If possessing and/or trafficking copyright circumvention devices is illegal, then we're all fcuked...
"Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
You sir, have a gift to make people laugh.
"jackass".. heh.
The simplest solution that no one seems to have mentioned is to buy used. If you want music and don't want to support the MPAA (more) then buy from your local used CD store. It lets you get your hands on pretty much all of the music made up to today for cheaper than new. As you're a computer freak you can rip it and copy it if you feel like it to keep a "pristine" copy and your purchase price isn't supporting the MPAA (like if you tried to buy it new). It also isn't copyprotected.
Best of all worlds (if you like music and want to be able to buy it without supporting the copy-protection "conspiracy").
Why not watch DivX movies while you're at it?
Well now you're just being a jerk for the sake of being argumentative if you don't see a difference between watching a MOVIE (which would be unprofessional conduct) and listening to music (which in my opinion, neither increases or decreases my performance...but certainly makes the day more pleasant and less stressful).
I'm guessing you probably have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time...
"I'm not a procrastinator, I'm temporally challenged"
And then return them because they don't work on your player. (PS2, PC, whatever...) THEN, the cost of implimenting this strategy goes through the roof, because the disks need to be returned to to manufacturer, and tested, and repackaged, etc, etc, etc. Not buying has no cost. Buying, OPENING, and returning as defective (which they are) has a HUGE cost.
But before you decide to engage in using their return policy to send a "message" take a moment to reflect on what is involved in getting a refund....
I'll wait
Still rarin to teach them a lesson?
OK visit every retail establishment in your city to purchase/return a few thousand dollars worth of "product" (at 20 bucks per, you can do it with 10 CDs at dozen stores). Boy you sure taught them a lesson. Especially when Universal pulls all the refund data from the different stores together and your name pops out at the top of the list as buying tweleve copies each of the same ten "products" and then getting refunds on them. Of course corporations are really stupid and they would never dream of doing that type of data mining... So it also stands to reason that they might not consider how they could teach you a "lesson" either. Certainly they are at least as stupid as Adobe. And we all know that Adobe is too stupid to go after anyone who messes with Adobe eBooks.
Lets see, you are on their list now as a "copyright infringement activist", so what can they do to you?
- Using creative accounting practices (and no one has ever accused the recording industry of having any other kind) they can probably parlay your little spree into something that cost in excess of 5000.00 dollars. And of course, it invloved their computer systems (someone had to do data entry on those transactions), so you can now be labeled as a terrorist courtesy of AG Ashcroft's early Christmas present
- If that is a bit over the top for your tastes, I'm sure that you will welcome the visit from the friendly FBI agent who will have good reason to suspect you of criminal violations of the DMCA. Of course, theFBI won't stop with your home, they will also have warrants for your place of employment and/or institution of education.
- And that is just what they can do by using Uncle Sam to do their dirty work for them. What sort of petty troble could they make for you if they really wanted to slap you down? If you run a website, they could complain to your ISP about infringing material there.
- They could sell your mailing address to the child pornography industry. Heck they could email you computer generated "virtual kiddie porn" - just before that friendly FBI agent shows up to serve that warrant and take away your computer.
Like I said, they own the "product". They can sell it in whatever manner they see fit. We can buy or not buy the "product". Personally I think a much shorter copyright term (20 years?) and mandatory revocation of copyright for copyrighted material if the holder does not provide an unecumberd copy of the material to the Library of Congress - or maybe the USPTO? Then the gubmin releases it when the copyright expires.You either believe in rational thought or you don't
Buy them, rip them on some obscure device that can (like a Macintosh) and return them since they don't work in your DVD player :)
EPSON 1280 drive license aggreement states that the software may only be used with EPSON devices owned by the driver owner.
If your printer is acting up, you can't borrow your buddy's to see if that resolves the problem.
Sheesh.
I might return mine. Besides the licence hassle, it's a pig with ink.
The problem is that music has been industrialized like they're making toasters or TVs. The focus is on the end result, $, instead of the product itself, the music. The industry has to realize that if they make a quality product the money will follow naturally (with some marketing). One reason the bands you noted (The Who, Beatles, Doors, etc) still move people is that they started off with a genuine desire to make the music they wanted too. The music sold itself. New sounds tend to fly under the corporate radar and produce quality material but eventually the sound gets assimilated and then mass produced by the cookie cutter music industry thus choking the life out of it.
Because of this were getting acts like Brittany Spears who are the result of calculated profiteering from the very beginning. Instead of focusing on getting the product right and then selling that they've gone straight to the marketing and ignored the quality of the product. The end result is that you sucker the public for a while but you quickly drain the public and lose their interest for anything you try to sell.
I've felt the same way about the music currently coming out, there is very little creativity currently. Most new acts just seem to create a gray sonic blur of sameness. Even rap and electronica are now in perpetual bland ruts.
So what to do? Don't buy it. There is no shame in listening to old bands if they are simply better than the dreck being produced today. If you still must feel cutting edge then go to a local music club, but putting money up for bad products just encourages them to produce more crap . They won't change until they see the cash stream drying up.
With all of the people here that agree that copy protection isn't good, the clear answer is to start a new record company that does things the right way - if one person can't do it alone, I know there are enough people with the same interests that could pool resources; i.e., if its broke, fix it yourself; this also applies to books, software, etc;
I have a question, how legal are dance remixes of songs?
I usually prefer to listen to dance remixes of songs, and I've found that finding mp3 versions of them are a lot easier than finding CD's of them.
So here's my question, am I stuck trying to find CD's of them, or can I freely use the web to find them?
What about fair use? If it's legal to create a 'derivitive work', then what legal reason does a company have to block somebody from doing that?
*puzzled about the law*
"Derp de derp."
Sorry to burst your bubble, but because you and Universal reside in different states, I guarantee you that once you file suit in state court, they have the right to remove the case to federal court, and they will excercse this right. You don't want to represent yourself in fed court, so you would probably need to hire an attorney ($$$). A better solution would be to contact an attorney with experience with class action suits and proceed as a class action on a contingency fee basis. No money out of your pocket that way.
-1, incorrect placement of [/RANT] tag...
Use the RIAA's tactic. Request that they send you (in writing) a complete list of all the players that are/will be compatible with the so called "Protected CDs".
Unfortunately, I don't have a "standard" CD player. My car has a CD/MP3 combo player, I use my DVD/CD combo unit in my entertainment system, and I have a CD-Rom drive in my computer. Does that mean I have to spend for another player just to listen to Universal's CDs?
Sorry, my wallet is staying closed on this one.
I see a lot of postings implying the best way to deal with this is to not buy the CDs or buy them and return them... While I think that could be effective, I doubt we'll get enough people to do that for them to even notice...
What I'd really like it some group to take this issue on and into the courtroom, etc... I'd donate money, buy a shirt, etc...
Who can we turn to?
RateVegas.com - Vegas Reviews
That would be misrepresenting the product which is probably illegal.
:)
The product is used, and has be "checked" for quality. It could be sold as refurbished, renewed, opened, tested, whatever, but unless it carries an "I'm USED!" style label the company is misprepresenting the product.
Notice that no matter how nicely returned your opened electronics to Best Buy, Future Shop and such are they always market it as open box, refurbished, repackaged, whatever.
Customers (normally) won't buy opened product without either a guarantee (which can't be offered in this case) or a discount.
They lose twice. They can either throw it out and lose big, or sell it as opened and lose a little twice.
Time for me to start buying music again!
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Unless you have a no-brains-required job, listening to music distracts you from your work and lowers your productivity.
Actually, for some of us otherwise intelligent people with horribly short attention spans, wearing headphones and listening to some nice patter-filled music helps block out alot of office distraction.
That's why-- because they have no voice.
... and 3 months later the CC company charges YOU back.
You can't stop a charge like turning off a light switch. The CC company will keep up with the case, and if the merchant never admits culpability, you still get charged in the end.
The CC company as saviour idea seems to be a myth, practically speaking.
My vinyl will kick your digital's ass.
cheers, dj ed
Good article. There's another article that might explain Universal's reasoning for adding copy-protection. (HINT: It really has little to do with piracy.)
http://www.wired.com/news/mp3/0,1285,49188,00.html
On Tuesday, Universal Music Group becomes the first label to sell copy-protected CDs in the United States with the release of its soundtrack Fast & Furious -- More Music. This comes at a time when the recording industry is asking consumers to pay for music that can only be listened to on the PC.
The newly released CD will keep people from listening to their music on the computer, game consoles and other digital devices. If they wanted to go through the major labels to buy the same music for their computer, the only way would be to sign up for Pressplay, one of the major label subscription services, when it launches later this month.
Essentially, consumers would be required to pay once for a physical CD and once for the digital music file. The restrictions for online subscription services and physical CDs are part of a music industry-wide attempt to stop online music piracy.
Bascially, they want to move everyone into a position where they get paid everytime you "space-shift" your music. Playing your CD in CD player? Pay for it once. Playing it on the computer? Pay for it again. <begin sarcasm>After all, we've got to keep those RIAA pockets filled, don't we?<end sarcasm>
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
The best solution is boycott. Don't buy anything from Universal. Don't go to their movies (which suck for the most part anyway), don't buy their records (which suck for the most part anyway) and don't buy their DVD's (which are, for the most part, evil technology anyway).
Be sure to tell your friends and family if you're serious about a boycott.
Boycott: chapters-indigo (for censorship) Boycott: Microsoft (for obvious reasons) Boycott: Universal (for being ugly and evil)
:wq
I just got off the phone with the FTC ( http://fatchucks.com/corruptcds/index.html )
:) and I had to wait for about 10-15minutes. The lady who took my complaint seemed interested and asked quite a few details. The BIGGEST issue, and the one she said sounded like 'something big, is that these CDs are not labled correctly. They are being sold next to CDs that work fine in all devices but are not labled any differently.
The recording said they are experiencing an unusually high call volume
Lets all hope and pray the FTC steps in and takes action against the RIAA. I know MS gets all the news for their deceptive business practices but does anyone remember this (probably not, since the media didn't care to much about publisizing it - who still believes in a FREE PRESS?)
"On May 10, 2000, the Federal Trade Commission announced that it has reached settlement agreements with Universal Music and Video Distribution, Sony Corp. of America, Time-Warner Inc., EMI Music Distribution and Bertelsmann Music Group (BMG), the five largest distributors of recorded music who sell approximately 85 percent of all compact discs (CDs) purchased in the United States to end their allegedly illegal advertising policies that affected prices for CDs. "The FTC estimates that U.S. consumers may have paid as much as $480 million more than they should have for CDs and other music because of these policies over the last three years," said FTC Chairman Robert Pitofsky.
According to the FTC's complaints, the companies required retailers to advertise CDs at or above the "Minimum Advertised Price" (MAP) set by the distribution company in exchange for substantial cooperative advertising payments. The restrictions applied to all advertising, including television, radio, newspaper and signs and banners within the retailers' own stores. The restrictions even applied to advertising funded entirely by the retailer. Under the policies, large music retailers would lose millions of dollars a year if they failed to follow the MAP restrictions."
We need to topple the RIAA...they are much to big for thier britches and now that they feel threatened are going after everything they can BIG-BROTHER STYLE.
Like the RIAA says, "MP3 Devices Don't Pirate Music, People DO!"....wait...maybe I have my lobbiest mixed up?
Re: "Head of government relations"
Just to clarify on this point: Many, many companies have government relations departments. I know that Amtrak, Disney, AOL/Time Warner and even local governments have "government relations departments". You can even get a masters degree in Government Relations, believe it or not (my sister has one.)
Government relations can be as innocuous as making sure that all appropriate permits have been obtained at the local level to pushing for new laws (eg, DCMA) at the Federal level. It does not necessarily imply enormous power - merely that the company takes its interactions with local, state and federal governments seriously.
Given there is going to be "incompatible" Cd players not able to read the CDs, I wonder if the issue could eventually end in a fight between hardware vendors and music companies.
I mean... if I produced a CD player following the required standards and then a lot of CDs were not playing correctly in my equipment, I would be very upset and I'd try going against the CD record company responsible.
I'm willing to bet the RIAA has already forcast how much "bad disk" returns are going to cost them; I'll also wager they neglected to consider the costs of a class action lawsuit from every CD-ROM manufacturer and computer maker who loses business because the computer purchaser was expecting it to be able to play CD's.
They may have just stabbed an ally in the back. It will be interesting to see how they back this one out...
The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.
I haven't bought a major label CD for almost a year now. The only problem I see with not buying from major labels is when the sales numbers drop it will be blamed on the "evil" MP3 users and _not_ the fact that people are boycotting their practices or are sick of hearing all the crappy, color by numbers music they produce anyway.
Maybe we should organize a formal Digital Rights movement to lobby government and industry. Actually a few high profile protests wouldn't be bad either.
The platform
1) Establish legislation protecting 'Fair Use' rights of all Intellectual Property.
2) Repeal of the DMCA
3) Reform copyright law
4) Limit the scope of EULAs
Any comments?
cameron.
This move will increase piracy as people wanting to listen to copy-protected CDs on their computers, who don't have an audio system, have no choice but to get pirate copies.
Ever had to listen to a top-ten station? I've got a coworker who keeps one on the air; I don't understand the concept at all. You can tell what part of the hour it is by which song / what part is currently playing. New music? Not there.
Me, I only buy soundtrack CDs and compilations. Yes, that means my music is at least 6 years behind the current selection (often far more than that; last CD I bought was classical), but then again what is this thread about, anyway...
Do you like Japanese imports?
It looks like they will be watching the return percentage to see how many people have problems with their CDs....
If we really wanted to get people's attention, we would all buy one or two or three and return them.
These companies need to realize what dinosaurs they are. Their business model is doomed -- it relies on artificial scarcity that they want to maintain by crippling information technology.
I think Eben Moglen's article, Liberation Musicology has some very interesting ideas about the future of music distribution.
While there's a big market for Britney Spears, there's another big market for "underground" music.
Thier sound or trite messages still doesn't distinguish the Backstreet Boys or Incubus from being a bunch of monkey boys who perform when you shove a quarter in thier ass.
It's all the same crap, targeted at a wide demographic of people and children, sending out the same old shit message, "Image is everything... Cultural, Political, Moral, Whatever..." (Note: Image refers to more than just external appearances. Include behavioral nuances and all elements of "culture")
What I do agree with is that these same people hawking Britney Spears have way too much influence on people. Hence, My opinions on fair use...
"Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
I just had a strange urge to say that.
Anyway, don't buy 'em. Don't listen to hosers who say, "Oh, buy and return!" - many places won't let you return 'em. And, as a fact, not buying them *still* hurts the asses on top. Not as much, but if you lead a busy life and still want to stick it to the man, there's yer route.
'Course, they'll scream "Piracy decreases sales!", but does anyone listen to 'em?
I refuse to buy CD-R* media unless it's at Staples on a bad day where they're giving away a mail-in rebate that allows me to get the discs for free.
Is this the RIAA? Is this the MPAA? I thought it was the USA.
And such.
A new form of copy protection is coming soon on CDs produced by Universal Music Group. This new technology will make it impossible to play their music on computers, DVD players, game consoles, and possibly even some CD players. UMG's primary goal appears to be restricting the spread of music in MP3 format and the duplication of their product via CD copying devices.
c d1 21701.htm
Not everyone really cares about MP3s, hell I actually own most of the music I have in MP3 format. However, it is a serious restriction of our rights to prevent our ability to backup our CDs for personal use.
" 'This is what's truly hurting sales,' Haussler said. 'This is not my compilation of my favorite music. This is having these perfect copies forever.' " (Haussler works for BMG. They are also looking into copy protection technology)
What is wrong with having a perfect copy forever? You paid for your CDs in order to have a perfect copy of them right? While not everyone is tech savvy enough to make their own backup CDs or MP3s, we should not permit UMG to take away our rights regarding the CDs that we own. I believe that UMG needs a firm reminder that we will not stand for being punished because they are unable to police those who would misuse their product. Find another way!
In light of UMG's decision to copy protect their CDs in this format, I will personally not purchase any more of their products. At the bottom of this letter, I have included a list of the artists published by UMG for which I own or have owned a perfect "Computer Friendly" copy. I encourage you to take a look at the list, and let UMG know which artists of theirs you might not purchase, or at least would think twice about purchasing, due to this change in their product. You can find a complete list of artists associated with UMG at their website http://www.umusic.com/ (on a side note: www.ourmusic.com was already taken).
Please forward your letter to the official UMG contacts in the following list:
bob.bernstein@umusic.com
lisa.bond@umusic.com
larry.kenswil@umusic.com
albhy.galuten@umusic.com
lisa.farris@umusic.com
Be polite and concise. You may want to remove everything but the list and your statement regarding their copy protection in order to limit the load on their mail servers.
You can find an article regarding this at the link below.
"Universal Music is the most aggressive in its anti-piracy efforts, saying that all of its CDs will be copy-protected by mid-2002."
http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svfront/
-- START MESSAGE HERE --
UMG:
I, PLACE YOUR NAME HERE, will no longer purchase products from Universal Music Group. Despite the fact that I enjoy the work of many of the artists published under this company, I cannot abide by the restriction of my rights that will occur when UMG begins shipping copy protected CDs. The following is a list of UMG artists who's CDs I own or have owned in the past:
Blues Traveler, Jimmy Buffet, Cherry Poppin Daddies, Cranberries, Sheryl Crow, The Crystal Method, Depeche Mode, Peter Gabriel, Jimi Hendrix, Nine Inch Nails, Luciano Pavarotti, Reverend Horton Heat, Sonic Youth, Sting, The Temptations, and U2.
I feel that it is important that you receive feedback from your consumers regarding your new copy protection scheme. While I do not advocate copying CDs for friends or trading MP3s, I will not use your product if I am unable to make a backup copy of it for personal use. At a time when almost all CDs can be played on any system, I find your restriction to stereo systems only to be highly distasteful.
Thank you very much for your time,
PLACE YOUR NAME HERE
I was wondering about this, but take Apple's 'Rip, mix, burn' slogan.. is it allowable for a company (universal) to create a product which would effectively make another company (apple) liable for false advertising?
Also, the article on Wired says something about an option for owners of the crippled CD to buy a 'computer-friendly' version once they already own the 'real' one.
From article:
Universal told retailers that it would honor refunds on all returned discs -- even for CDs that have been opened.
So what you're telling me is, I can go buy the CD, use any of a number of methods that will come out to circumvent this "technology", then take the CD back and get all my money back? And I get a full-quality copy and I don't have to search for or download it? Sweet!
This is ridiculous.
First, if you are listening to music with headphones, you may well be essentially shutting out sounds other than the music. So you aren't *adding* noise, you're replacing it with other noise.
In the office in which I work, I'm in a cubical, and I'm just across a "hall" from a group of *extremely* loud people. At certain times of the day they are literally yelling. At other times they are simply loud. Trust me, music would do a lot to ease the annoyance of their noise.
As for professionalism, in every group of programmers I've worked with, there's always been a percentage that listened to music on headphones. Some did it all the time, some only occasionally. No manager has ever -- in close to 20 years -- told me that listening to music was unprofesional. I don't really believe you know what you're talking about.
For me, it depends upon two things: the extranious noise level and the intensity of the problem I've trying to solve. I'd much rather have Bach going in the background than the yelling that I hear across the hall, but if I've come upon a really nasty problem, I'd rather have silence.
Is okay with you if I bring in my ear protection devices? They look just like headphones, but without a cord. But, I guess not. Trying to have a silent environment by wearing something that looks like headphones would destroy my professionalism.
Sheesh.
Sean.
In further news, studies show that gasoline consumption continues to rise, while sales of typewriters declined by another 12% last year. Clearly, gasoline sales are displacing typewriter sales, unfairly hurting the book industry. Lawsuits will follow.
Are all these copy protection schemes just short term solutions to keep people in a frenzy while the industries work out their REAL digital music plans? I still think the labels are still thinking they can control somewhat what people do with their cd's. Big business has a difficult time adapting to even the slightest change. The amount of money the industry will spend on tech support for the poor saps who can't get their music to play in a dvd player will be added to the total cost the industry has spent on this so called Digital Rights Movement. That sum should be an impressive amount, greatly exceeding the total dollars they claim to have lost from file sharing, but coming close to matching what they've spent in the courts. Let's give miss Rosen a big round of applause for her hard work all these years keeping us consumers happy: ...
Lots of PC games don't work. Often this is because the copy protection doesn't work on a certain percentage (5 to 10%) of cd-rom drives.
Yet people still buy pc games.
I'll stick with standardised (albeit closed-source) Nintendo kit thank you...
I wonder if it is illegal to plot to buy and return something? If not should we somehow organaize via the web a sort of "CD purchase and return day" (through boards or webpage) using the list of copy protected CDs. After this we can track progress of other returns because it will certainly take more than one day of returns for the company to notice or care. It takes a big misquito to make the giant even swat at it.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
Come on now guys, well all know that this really doesn't affect 95% of the slashdot community anyway -- said percentage hasn't bought a single CD in the last two years anyway! :)
Berto
1. Buy the CD.
2. Take it home and burn two copies. (Three if you want to keep a copy)
3. Return the original CD. Remember, they HAVE to take it back.
4. Mail one burned CD to Hilary Rosen, and one to the head of Universal. Attach notes saying, "Still burnable. Try again."
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
But why doesn't the RIAA just release everything online and start being the largest producer of blank recordable cd's. They could start with prices low to push out all competition, then raise them and make the profits back.
Then again, I'm a CS major, not a business major. What do I know, right?
--Yahiko
Everything I say is a lie.
Except that. And that. And that. And that.
is a french sewerage company that can't run an acceptable train service. Yes literally.
The majority of their costs are made up via concerts which is why you get raped again for 100$ just to see a band play some songs you already bought for 20$
I'm glad this seems clear to you. It means I don't have to worry about what you think, once jamie finishes implementing killfiles.
Uh huh. All I said was, hey, it's no big deal to be wrong every so often. All the greats were wrong about something, and what made 'em great was the ability to suck it up like a man and say as much. But not only are you patently unable to say "oops, I made a boo-boo" you're so incredibly insecure about it that you have to killfile people who call you on it? Thirty minutes ago I just thought you were having a bad day - now I see that deep down, you're just an insecure, childish tool. Plonk away, lamer, you won't hurt my feelings any.
Sheesh. Some people.
But what does my opinion matter, I just vote here. It's not like I have any money or anything.
To do this, people living in Paris will have to stop drinking, washing and using the toilet.
People in Kent will have to stop using trains to get to work.
This may be impractical.
http://www.universalstudios.com/homepage/html/cont act_us/
Tell them how you feel about it!
I wonder if this would force stores to provide refunds for each instance of the CD brought in w/o a receipt... if so, then people could make some $ by surfing the price differences... buy them online for 6$, then returning them at the mall store for $12 sorta thing...
"And just why did you buy 1000 copyprotected CDs?
--Ask yourself... WWJD?
I fequently buy CD's (for highend home theater) If I buy a newer CD, and it diesn't play because they designed it that way, they must CLEARLY put on the front of the CD "This CD is copy-protected and will not play on some electronic devices"
If they don't they are liable for selling a product they know is defective.
Brian
I just went out and bought a copy of this disc at lunch, and am running it through cdparanoia (cdparanoia III v 9.7) right now. So-far, I've copied tracks 1 and 2.
So-far, lots of "+" (Unreported loss of streaming/other error in read) and at least one "!" (Errors are getting through stage 1 but corrected in stage2) on each track, but other than that, the wav files sound just fine. I can't hear anything odd.
What a bunch of idiots. I think I'll write them a letter and enclose a CDR copy of the CD just to thumb my nose at them.
bah,
-nate
Universal has forfeited their right to collect any of the blank CD levi because none of their shit will be copied.
In Canada, it's legal to copy a CD for your own use, even if you didn't buy it. For example, I borrow a CD from a friend, and copy it for myself, I didn't break the law. If I copy it for other people, I did.
The CD levi is there to line the pockets of recording companies with the money of people who buy blank CDs to copy their favourite game.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
The labels see signs of a similar death spiral in the United States. Sales of CD singles are off 41 percent, compared with the same time last year, and album sales are effectively flat -- up less than 1 percent from a year ago, according to SoundScan, a market research firm that tracks retail music sales.
Hello!??? Economy just *might* have something to do with this.
In Germany alone, one survey by market researcher GfK found that blank CD sales jumped 129 percent this year. Purchases of pre-recorded music dropped 2.2 percent in the same period.
Indeed, blank CDs now outsell recorded discs in Europe and Canada, according to one label executive.
So, blank CD purchases are up by over 100%, and they outsell recorded CDs, yet recorded music sales have only dropped by 2.2%.
Gosh! Could it be that people by blank CDs for purposes other than pirating music?
Nahh. We should pay extra for each blank CD we buy, because we need to reimburse the music industry for pirated music.
Becuase now I can return the sh*t music that I too often buy. See ... they can't refuse me since the CD says it can't be copied. The music industry will shoot themselves in the foot soon enough. If you can't copy the CD then the music stores have no reason to disallow returns, and I for one will be happy that I can return it citing .. "Gee Mr. ... it just doesn't work with my player!"
Of course we all know what they're doing is is bunk and doesn't stop anyone from pirating anything.
Now all we need is some smart yank to start a class action lawsuit against the record company(ies) for intentionally creating flawed CD's citing mental anguish.
The irony of all this is this. They want to stop people from turning the tracks into mp3s by making the CD unplayable in many systems. Well it's easy to software correct for this to rip mp3s, which will then become the answer for people with older cd-players that can't handle the cds. Now the people that want the CD but can't play it are forced to download the mp3 or tape the songs off the radio. All Universal is actually doing is encouraging the trading of mp3s to the people who can't play the CDs on their own gear, so they are encouraging exactly what they want to stop.
I'm not saying that i do this, not do I condone it...
digital copying may not be possible, but wouldnt sampling still be possible. I dont know of many algorithms that encrypt audible sound in a way that you cant just rerecord it.
makes you think.
--donabal
Safety First Day?
Decreasing your level of stress in itself probably makes you more productive.
are part of a music industry-wide attempt to stop online music piracy.
Gotta hand it to them for defining the language in their own terms - that wins half the battle in the sea of unwashed masses. Kind of like defining your opponents as "terrorists" and your collaborators as "freedom fighters".
Imagine how this would go over if the language were altered to read:
This doublespeak is continued with phrases like "Digital Rights Management" that IMHO is more accurately depicated as "Content Use Restriction". Suffice it to say, you'll never see the daily newspapers and national media outlets use any terms except those generated by their owners.
This is all to be expected, though, as evidenced by how he term "hacker" has acquired a strange foreboding and malevolence in the popular media, whereas the technically adept, those most like to "hack", know the difference between a hacker and a cracker.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Yep. But the BIG difference is that the music drowns out the other noise and lets me get on with my work. I can work quite well while listening to music but have a hard time getting anything done while people are having conversations around me.
If I need to really concentrate, I go home where it's very quiet.
You probably also subscribe the the idiotic belief that a true "professional" should be in a suit and tie every day.
Dude...
CD sales to ZERO. COOL! If we
are you using steganography?
Without digging in too deeply to a semantic/philosohpic discussion, the issue here maybe more of problematic concept of "ownership" of intellectual property. Companies are spending billions of dollars on protection solutions that solve the trouble with traditional theft of intellectual property. However, I contest that's already an irrelevant approach. Few of us are flat out freeloaders. Instead we crave a different kind of ownership and authors of IP deserve a new process for compensation. The modern methods of IP creation and delivery demand a cultural, legal, and business revolution regarding consumer pricing, "packaging", and author compensation.
There are so many issues wrapped up in this it's ridiculous. Yet, something tells me if you rework everything from the root on up most of the trouble will disappear. The record companies should get together a think tank to contemplate the cultural revolution instead of reinventing another doomed-to-fail copy-protection scheme.
For example, why not consider the fact that people are willing to pay for superior audio/video experiences because mundane experiences are so easy to come by now. Roll me some removeable media that has 8 channels of sound that simply would not translate faithfully to a compressed, lossy format across non scsi disks and mediocre sound software. I'll buy that, just as I buy the other things that go above the norm. More importantly, release some Intellectual Property that is worth the price of admission. I support on principal alone the artists, authors, movie makers that consistently produce. The mediocre are lucky the public bothers to listen, rip, download, burn, and distribute.
(Note: who are we kidding here on CD/DVD protection? If you really want the data that bad either 1)you can find it somewhere from someone on the Internet and 2)Most audio/video hardware can output near, if not, perfect quality streams directly to another device that can record from an input stream. Oy.)
BS...
I do level design for a living... that's _art_ for those few non-gamers out there.
Listening to music which fits the type of game I'm working on while I work allows me to get the "feel" of the world I'm trying to create. For example, while working on System Shock 2, I listened to Rammstein and other hardcore techno stuff a lot.
And as others have stated it blocks out other people talking. I couldn't get any work done if I could hear the other people in the office. I wouldn't be able to tune out what they were saying.
Kinda ads fuel to their argument.
Best thing to do is to buy and then return them, telling the distributor that it doesn't work
When the RIAA's primary means of distribution gets pissed off at these 'defective CD returns', they'll think twice before screwing with consumer's rights...
AC comments get piped to
Here's a way to get around this. They say they offer refunds, even for opened CDs. That's a smart decision by them, because if they didn't, lawsuits would force them to eventually. So here's how you can get music EVEN MORE FREE than before:
1. Buy the CD from the store.
2. Open it up and see if it works on your computer.
3a. If it does not work on your computer. You can try calling their hotline, see if there's anything you can do. Don't give out any personal information unless absolutely required. Do what they say, and then see if it works. Regardless of whether or not it works, don't tell them. If it works, proceed to step 3b. If it doesn't work, return it as defective to get your refund.
3b. If it works, play the songs on your computer. Since it has "rip" protection, you need to make a copy of it using another method: direct recording of the exact sound-output from your soundcard. If you have a SoundBlaster, you can use Creative Record to record the sound-output in pure digital form. This bypasses their "rip-proection" scheme, and it produces results just as high quality as a pure WAV rip. (note, the output file will be a WAV).
4. Do this for all of the tracks on the song. It'll take a little finesse to get it to start and stop recording exactly when the song starts and stops -- you don't want to cut off anything, but you also don't want to have any more "silent sound" than necessary.
5. Save a copy of this WAV file onto your hard drive. You always want to have a pure copy of the original, so that later on, when better MP3/WMA/OGG compression comes out, you can recompress.
6. Compress the WAV file using either OGG, WMA, or MP3. If you use MP3, you should probably do MP3Pro, the new program. The demo program is free. You can probably find warez of the full MP3Pro program. If you use WMA, you'll have to use the wma8eutil command that you d/l from MS. If you use OGG, you'll have to use the oggenc command.
7. Offer the files on LimeWire and Kazaa.
8. Now, you should have been able to do all this in a day, right? I can do it in less than an hour, if I want to. So, once your done with that, and you have your original WAV files copied to your HD, you make a copy of the CD using Adaptec CD Copier -- if the CD will allow it. If not, no problem, you have the perfect-quality WAV on your HD and can put it on a CD-RW...you also have the high-quality MP3/WMA/OGG encoded files.
9. Now that you've derived all possible value out of this CD, its useless too you. Why should you keep it? You shouldn't. You should return it to the store you bought it from, and say it was defective and wouldn't play on your CD-player -- after all, they do say that it doesn't play on some CD players. The store has no choice but to give you your money back.
Congratulations, you've just: (1) Got a free original CD that can play on a CD player at no cost to yourself (assuming you could copy the CD) -- if not, you can simply use Adaptec Audio-CD Maker to put the WAVs on the CD as tracks; (2) Gotten perfect quality WAV files for the music; (3) Gotten good quality WMA/MP3/OGGs for the music, which you can put on a CD-RW to be played on an MP3-player; (4) Distributed these files to the world. Life is good.
DISCLAIMER. This article is not a role-model article. It is not even serious. Its a comical release. Some of the things mentioned in this article could cause a person to get hurt, expelled, arrested, possibly deported. To put it another way: Don't try this at home...
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Wonder if we could drum up interest in having MS go after the RIAA. The XBox doubles as a CD player just like the Playstation 2, with one big advantage: MS doesn't manufacture a bajillion records every year.
:-)
If you thought returning CDs was bad - return the XBox (already a loss-leader) as defective for not playing CDs properly! Enough XBox returns and MS gets pissed off at the record companies.
Seriously, though - I wonder if we could get M$ to understand that they can't promote their system as a CD player given the trend in CD manufacturing.
Let us live so that when we come to die, even the undertaker will be sorry -- Mark Twain
Philips invented the Compact Disc, and holds the patent to the technology. The "Red Book" is the technical specification for the Compact Disc (tm Philips) media format, and CD audio is often referred to as "Red Book audio" as a result. You may have heard some game soundtracks described in this manner, simply meaning that the game's soundtrack is played as an audio track from the CD as the game plays.
The Philips Red Book specification is very... well, SPECIFIC. It sure as hell doesn't include any leeway for record companies to deliberately introduce noise or bad data in order to try and fool CD-ROM drives. In other words, if a record company's product has been altered in such a manner, it is technically NOT A COMPACT DISC and may not legally display the Philips Compact Disc Digital Audio logo.
And, of course, if a record store advertises, describes, and sells you a "piracy-protected" disc as a Compact Disc, then it is MISLEADING you as to the nature of the product for which you are paying -- a no-no for retailers, and something which will bite them on the ass.
-----
PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
Doesn't this new policy violate the RIAA's enhanced cd specification? I highly doubt that Universal has plans to discontinue their use of cd text and promotional software on all future new releases.
From the RIAA Specification: "All "Enhanced CD" discs (including but not limited to Single Session, Multisession, "CD Extra") should be capable of playing on all CD audio players including home players, disc changers (jukebox, cartridge, carousel types, etc.), portable players, and car players. "
You can read the full spec. sheet here
Won't play on macs?
Beware the wrath of Apple Legal!
muhahahahah
We will just have to stop buying Universal CD's then, and tell all your friends and relatives that you don;t want them as presents for Xmans since you can't play them. (Of course nearly all the universal cds being sold at the moment are not protected, but if people arent sure tey may avoid them anyway, leading to a massive drop in sales at one of the busiest times of the year.
It may encourage the groups and artists to switch record companies too.
BTW I dont rip CD's and upload them as mp3s but I do make compilation cd's for my own use. If I cant do that then I wont buy CDs.
If I can't play it, I won't buy it.
Copy protection free since inception.
What will be really funny and ironic-
When Universal releases an enhanced cd with the latest music video and artist-wallpaper on it and yet the cd is copy-protected so it only plays on audio cd players.
It will happen.
I HAD to include the Hacker Manifesto blurb, just cuz it reminded me of my AOL "Warez" chatroom days.....
I have read from several sources that you will be releasing music that will not be playable on Macs, DVD players, and some home CD players. Frankly, I think this is the worst idea I have ever heard of. I have compiled a list of artists on your label, and will pass this list on to friends and family, so they do not make the mistake of purchasing any non-standard CDs that act unreliably.
In addition, I would like to point out that you will not be able to keep people from 'ripping' these CDs to MP3s. Why?
-Turn your computer around....
-See the little 'Aux-in' (aka-"Sound in") port?
-Now find one of those rare CD players that might actually play one of these corrupted CDs.
-Take your $.50 stereo-stereo cord from Radio Shack, plug one end into the CD player headphone jack, and the other into the sound in port on your computer.
-Go to Download.com and find one of approx 200 programs that will record an audio file. If it only does WAV files, download one of 20+ wav to mp3 converter programs.
-Hit play on the CD player, and record in your audio program. DONE.
Now, you don't think you're stepping on enough toes that 5 people in the world won't do that? And as soon as those 5 post it to a sharing service... guess what? You have managed to LOSE money from making your CDs unplayable and ENCOURAGING piracy. This is something I could have done on a computer I owned 10 years ago, and I would have known how to do when I was 5 years old. You're worried about people that know how to use and create MP3s, and you don't think they already know how to do this?
This was obviously a corporate decision and not passed by anyone with the intellect of your average 4th grader. Deal with the consequences, and I hope they are devestating. I think consumers need to make an example of idiotic business people, and i am afraid friend that YOU may be that example.
Other CDs have been copy protected, other online music services have been taken down. "You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all." (know the reference?) Hence, you need to change your business model. YOU need to change your technology. YOU need to make me and every other person on this planet believe that YOU actually have a purpose. YOU have to show us that YOU are important, and that without YOU artists would not be able to survive.
"We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals."
The world has caught on to you. Deal. Innovate or perish. Raping your customers and poisoning your products does not a loyal customer make...
Brian
My idea of being professional is doing my job and doing my job well.
If my manager is unable to judge the quality of my work and instead uses benchmarks such as how shiny my shoes are, then my manager is a waste of company $$
I do my best work when I pop in some good ole' death metal and stick on my big-ass headphones.
I'm able to get in the zone cause there is no way in hell anything is gonna distract me
Hi Jon,
These are the opinions of someone, like yourself, stuck in Sector 7G, trying to make a living and no way reflect on the policies of Universal Music Group or Vivendi Universal S.A. These opinions have been created and posted on private equipment during non-working hours. Do I seem paranoid? Keep reading and see why.
I'm sorry if this rambles, but this is our busy season and everyone's going nuts trying to figure out the sales numbers.
Yes I work for Universal Music Group. I've been on Slashdot for awhile (3XXXX range for my number) and yes I do forward on all the links and posts to the powers that be (well one level up at least.)
Here's the deal:
The business perception is that something they "own" is being "stolen" by a lot of people. In the entertainment industry perceptions are reality. Is that wrong? Sure it is, but I'm going to try to speak from strict reality here.
Frankly Jon, you're not a consumer they're interested in and neither are your friends. You're a "problem". You're too smart. You're supposed to just be a sheep and do what you're told. Darn, bad consumer!
On the other hand, good for you finding alternatives to $18.99 cds. Unfortunately there are a bunch of paranoid people who run entertainment companies and have a board of directors to answer to and a stock price to watch (to ensure their bonus.)
I don't have all the information and I don't really need it. What is true is that Universal, BMG, Time-Warner, etc are all in for the long haul. Long after y'all leave school, enter the private sector, buy a mortgage and start to procreate these companies will still be fighting the evil pirates, hackers, freedom fighters, etc.
But it's not just the entertainment companies, because everyone wants to be an entertainment company nowadays. Look at UMG's friends - Microsoft, Intel, Congress.
Though I'm not at a level where I get any real information I can tell you basically what is going to happen.
Now - copy protect CDs to keep highschool cheerleaders from ripping MP3s ("Oh my Gawd! It doesn't work anymore?!?") Don't worry about the tech guys yet. Lobby some more in Congress, figure out what the market will bear. Remember you're not really the market, neither are your buddies if they can fix their own computers - we're talking about REAL middle-America here.
Short term - Sue, sue, sue. Napster go bye bye, MP3.com eaten for lunch (thank you very much.) The rest will follow with some legislation that makes your ISP liable for the traffic across its pipes (it's coming.)
Long term - Now that the real obvious stuff is out of the way Microsoft and Intel will help by designing hardware and an OS that just wont do what you want anymore. So along software that emulates a sound card. See ya to hardware that doesn't have signed drivers. If it accesses the sound card it's gonna be signed too - aloha to your home brew compiled applications. More legislation, Son of DMCA or worse. Prosecution of college students. Jail time for a few. Locked down operating system. Look less virus problems! It must be a good thing! The public will eat it up like biscuits and red-eye gravy!
Paint the worst picture that you can and it will become that. For the people who just use Windows every day and don't know what Gateway or Dell don't tell them, the pain will be too much and they'll just do what they're told and buy on-line music that's licensed or listen to CDs on their stereo.
FUD - you're familiar with it - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. Nobody wants to go to jail for listening to music.
This country is ALL about making money and anything that gets in the way of that is crushed. Face it we do it to other countries, why not to a bunch of people "ripping off" music?
That's the reality I'm guessing is in store. Nope, I don't know, but neither do you. I've seen the resolve and these people are not going to let something slip by them that can make them another boatload of money.
Oh and LINUX wont save you from this one - the files you can purchase on-line will only be able to be decrypted on a "secure" OS. But if you're using LINUX you're not considered a consumer anyway (for the purpose of this whole demonstration.)
I'm sorry I can't caveat the hell out of this message so that it doesn't piss off each little faction with their own ideas about how things should be. This is how it is. I don't like it either, but resistance is useless on this one. We can talk all day about digital music channels from your satellite dish, or all the ways y'all can crack encryption, or circumvent this or that, but it doesn't really matter. Do it in your own house and don't tell anybody and nobody will care. Do it and tell everyone and there will be a law to slap you for it. Do it and distribute it and there will be a way to track you down and make you unhappy.
How to fight it? Easy, just stop buying CDs. Don't ever buy one again. But then if you're reading this you probably don't buy a whole lot of them anyway (please, I don't want to hear Chad over in California whine that he still buys CDs - I'm just talking to Jon here.) Sure buy them and return them. Nobody here is going to care that much unless they get more than some unknown number back and then they'll just try something different until the public will swallow it.
Oops, one of the AS400s downstairs just blew up, I gotta get going.
Now go buy a CD so I get my year end bonus!
Just kidding.
Jack
107 also permits copies for archival purposes. For some reason I think it's good practice to make a copy of the $500 app I just bought. Just because I get a scratch on my CD I shouldn't have to go buy another copy of the program.
These dinosaurs can sit on all their obsolete little eggs for all I care. The industry could have given people choice and still made reasonable money. But instead they insist on protecting obsolete packaging and business models. I won't be buying any such CDs that I can't even play.
but couldn't the data be read from the CD in any device?
I've never done SUPER HARDCORE CD-ROM PROGRAMMING. But I'm guessing that they work the same way as other disk drives, whereby at the lowest level you just read a chunk of data at a time. CD drives quite possibly have built-in Redbook playing support, that's how they have can play audio CDs without even a sound card. But there must be a way to tell it that it's just a random data CD, right? If so, all (heh) that is needed is to read the headers and work out where the tracks are, then save them all to disk. Sorted.
I could also just use the line-in jack, heh.
If Microsoft has the right to require I pay a seperate license fee for each of the computers in my house -- I guess the record industry reserves the right for me to pay for each of the audio devices I have in my house....
I sure am glad no good music has came out in the last few years --- I would hate to think I would be missing out on something.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Every time somebody throws up a challenge, like CSS for example, then somebody will get around it. They should realize this by now.
The issue that bugs the RIAA is that they are afraid one day nobody will be CD's anymore. If the RIAA were to look forward a little more, they'd realize that what they are doing wrong is fighting a trend, instead of capitolizing on it.
For example, they could provide a streaming subscription service where people could pay x dollars a month and have music on demand. The service they provide is that nearly every song every made is available to play. Music on demand. They could portion up that money to the artists that provide it.
I imagine the reason they don't do this is that they don't imagine they'd rake in as much cash because it's easier to justify the $15-$20 price tag on an actual CD. What they fail to realize is not only could the subscription model work, but they wouldn't have to deal with the cost of pressing CD's anymore. They'd have an easier time signging up more independent artists and not have to worry about building up their image as much. Heck, they might even be able to blow by the radio stations and preview new music themselves. Who knows, maybe they'll advertise in it too!
I have a feeling the RIAA is going to fall, not because of piracy, but because they are unwilling to accept that times change.
"Derp de derp."
I work for the record industry (which makes my opinion MORE valid :)) and I think it worth pointing out that the current market promotes the consumer view that music is a commodity rather than art. To the average consumer, a song has a dollar value like gold or silver. The proliferation of pop garbage, flashy looks and five minute stars has foregone any attempt at meaning from music. When you throw money into the street, what happens? People run and pick it up. The morality of a copyright issue has been pushed aside in the minds of people because its no longer art. I think the record industry is getting what they deserve, in a way, due to their own marketing practices.
Long gone are the days of buying albums to own something artistic.
There is no graceful way to eat an egg salad sandwich.
Yep, bottom line is that if you can play the media on SOME device then you can copy it too!
That means that these attempts by the RIAA to protect 'their' music are futile and are only meant to achieve one goal; get the 'eyeballs' of our law makers thereby getting their sympathy as well... or so they think and hope.
It will never work... they may try... there will probably be many more laws passed by 'sympathetic' (interpret that as IGNORANT and/or well funded by the RIAA) law makers. But the bottom line is that it will never work.
The record companies will either DIE or will CHANGE the way they do business. They know this completely but they KNOW that this will affect their profits because they can no longer RAPE the consumer by forcing us to buy MULTIPLE copies of the same damn song!!! (How stupid do they think we are???? I'm absolutely insulted by those jerks!)
Say it with me: PARADIGM SHIFT... mark my words, 5, 10 15 years from now it will be VERY different.
Tony Sak
If they put out the CD and get a %10-%20 return rate (an insanely high number). They'll be able to make no excuses, to themselves or others, they'll have to drop the technology. They can't remain profitable with a high return rate.
One of the major gripes I have had with big labels for some time is their fear of signing anything new. Westlife, Steps, S Club 7, lots of other semi-talented people singing complete and utter recycled rubbish got signed instantly.. after being put together by the industry.
Meanwhile, the good bands have to work. They play the so-called 'toilet circuit'. Eventually they will probably be picked up by a small to medium-sized record label.
A record label with sense, more sense than to do anything like this. So I'm not going to miss out on any music due to this - major labels don't have anything worth listening to.
Okay, there are some exceptions, but generally the above is true.
So how *do* you rip a protected CD? Anyone with the info please reply to this comment.
Fuck the music industry. When I want to listen to music I either play my guitar or hum to myself. I am thinking of getting piano lessons
In the last 6 years I have bought 3 CDs... all from mp3.com
And the only DVDs I own are old porn movies I got in the bargain bin for $4.99
And I used the script that was on Fat Chuck's site. I was on hold for about 5 minutes, then the person I spoke with was unfamiliar with the issue of copy-protected CD's and told me this was her first she had taken on this topic. I was asked for additional information by the operator such as: 1 - Did I contact the RIAA first? 2 - Did I contact Best Buy for a refund? 3 - How had I been harmed by the copy protection? In all, the process took about 20 minutes, and I was left with this closing remark from the FTC: "This information has been added to our database. Although the FTC will not intervene in individual cases, if we receive a sufficient volume of complaints, we may take action on behalf of all consumers."
Sure you can make a copy - but you don't get to easily access track lists online (from FreeCDDB or others). For me, even if I don't rip a CD I still like listening to it in a computer as I can see track names and details as it plays instead of hunting down the case.
Indeed, I looked forward to future networked CD players that would access track details to display track names for you real-time as a CD played. I guess that won't be the future anymore!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
tell me if im wrong but can't you just get a digital line from your stereo to your computer create the .wavs and then encode to mp3 and voila, and the same quality with a digital line. and so how do they plan on stopping that? you can do what i said right?
Let the artists know directly that you won't be playing their music due to their label's practices. Send them mail, post to a fan site, send in an opinion to music magazines. Make them realize that they are losing their chance at making their music heard and enjoyed.
``They've been testing this in Europe and they're experiencing less than a 1 percent return rate from consumers. It really has turned out to be nothing,'' said Jerry Kamiler, TransWorld Entertainment's division merchandise manger.
:/
If less there is a less than 1 percent return rate from consumers, surely it indicates that people aren't just pooling their cash and copying the discs, as the article describes.
This whole thing is just like saying that all books are now going to be made with a certain ink that only works under daylight, but cant be read at night or indoors...
The way i see it, RIAA won't be able to stay competitive like this and will only hurt themselves. They aren't adjusting to the changes taking place out there, and eventually, they will fall.
The Recording industry must adapt to this otherwise some other company/association will find a way to deal with CDR's/mp3's while being profitable, and the RIAA will very easily lose its market share. Nobody will want to be with them because it would be like buying a book that can only be read in daylight =P
I hate the cartel; bands like limp bizkit are created by the same people as the pop boy bands but for a different demographic... Promoted on MTV, commodified and marketed to death... where is the originality? Obviously this has been the case with a lot of pop but it seems to have gotten far worse now... Youth culture(TM) is owned by 5 massive corporations... This must change... I say screw the corporations, they are killing our world. Go the crackers!!
I can't imagine a workplace without music. Only thing worse is a workplace with music that you don't like.
I'm a music librarian so it's my job to listen to music at work. we get a kick out of listening to Very Bad Records, we have music theme days, holiday theme days, days where we only listen to sound effects, etc.
and yes, it does make you more productive
Sigh... its late, ok
Retailers bill back to companies for all returns and often for damaged and unsold merchandise as well. Why do you think they all take returns with, when you get down to it, little whining? Simple, doesn't affect THEIR bottom line and it keeps you happy. Ya, little mom and pop stores can't do this but I gaurentee Best Buy will bill Universal fo every returned CD they can't sell.
It's like a law that says, "It will not be considered murder if self-defense can be proved." Such a law does not establish that all other cases will be considered murder. The common law, common sense defense of "I was nowhere nearby, nor part of any conspiracy related to that death" still holds against, say, a prosecutor claiming you did it by witchcraft. Witchcraft does not become a crime because of not being included in a specific exception in a newly passed extension of the murder statutes.
Your logic resembles Ashcroft's: "If they weren't guilty terrorists, they wouldn't abuse our freedoms by insisting on a fair trial!"
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Seriously. Macs and PC's use the same drives.
My G4 has a Sony CD-RW drive. This drive (CRX-160) is the same one you can buy at CompUSA, even though the box has no mention of Macintosh support.
It works great with iTunes, Disc Burner and Toast 5, and yes, it's bootable.
Quite simply all the people I know who buy CD's dont read slashdot or even CNET. What we need is more mass market coverage of this issue. We need to get all the little Britney Spears and NSYNC fans all stirred up so they will start something.
If we had a nice website that explained the issue in pretty general and non-technical terms and then sent that link and some info to all the lil teen websites saying that the new CDs wont play in the car, computer or whatever. We could also send that along to local news and such. (I am currently somewhat homeless, or I'd do it)
White Stripes, and Belle and Sebastian, Billy Bragg and Wilco - Mermaid Avenue, Radiohead to name a few.
I disagree with your position here. I think we can all agree that musicians should be justly rewarded for their work. But to artificially force them into this avenue for obtaining revenue, we as consumers are artificially manipulating the market in a way that I believe we would ultimately find unfortunate.
For example, I enjoy listening to "mood" music like Enya, etc. while I'm coding or relaxing, etc. I would not necessarily wish to actually go to an Enya concert, however. I would imagine that it would be very boring. The simple fact is that there are many kinds of music which just don't lend themselves to live performances.
The bottom line is that there is no magic answer for this issue. It would be nice if musicians could be rewarded for their work in a way that couldn't be circumvented. And it would be nice if we could get their music in a way that didn't restrict us from using it as we want. But these two goals are extremely at odds. We (consumers) are currently "winning" this battle. But the potential long term implication is that if someone cannot be justly reward for their kind of work, then they won't do it, or at least focus on it as a primary occupation.
"The only rights you have are the rights you are willing to fight for."
Here ya go:
A3
A*Teens
Bryan Adams
Alice Deejay
All City
All That
Gary Allan
American Hi-Fi
Ametria
Angela Ammons
Angelfish
Marc Antoine
Aqua
India Arie
The Art of Noise
Artful Dodger
Vladimir Ashkenazy
Ask Me
ATC
Avant
AZ
Backbone
Erykah Badu
Balfa Toujours
Marcia Ball
John Barry
Cecilia Bartoli
Beautiful South
Beck
David Benoit
George Benson
Leonard Bernstein
BG
Big Audio Dynamite
Big Bad Voodoo Daddy
Big Tymers
Bilal
Black Eyed Peas
Black Grape
Black Indian
Black Lab
Blackstreet
Everton Blender
The Blenders
Mary J. Blige
Blink-182
Rory Block
Bloodhound Gang
Blue October
Blue Hawaiians
The Blue Mondays
Blues Traveler
Bobs
Andrea Bocelli
Bon Jovi
Bond
Tracy Bonham
Barbara Bonney
Chris Botti
Bottlefly
Boyz II Men
Boyzone
Brave Combo
Michael Brecker
Alfred Brendel
The Brian Setzer Orchestra
Brill
Foxy Brown
Ruth Brown
Buffalo Nickel
Jimmy Buffett
Burlap to Cashmere
Burning Spear
Daniel Cage
Caleb
Canibus
Cap One
Cardigans
Vanessa Carlton
Richard Carpenter
Case
Caviar
Celeda
Riccardo Chailly
Charlatans U.K.
Boozoo Chavis
Cherry Poppin Daddies
Chosen Few
Chumbawamba
The Churchills
City High
Terri Clark
Eddy Clearwater
Co-Ed
Cold
Collapsis
Colony
Common
Chris Cornell
Julian Coryell
Elvis Costello
Neal Coty
Counting Crows
Tina Cousins
Cowboy Mouth
Cranberries
Sheryl Crow
The Cru
Crucial Conflict
The Crystal Method
Cyclefly
D-12
Days of the New
DBA
Deep Blue Something
Def Leppard
Del Amitri
Geno Delafose
Depeche Mode
Dirty
Dishwalla
The Dismemberment Plan
DJ Clue
DJ Encore Feat. Engelina
DJ Rogers Jr.
DMX
Placido Domingo
Dope
doubleDrive
Will Downing
Dr. Dre
Drag-On
Drain STH
Driver
Dru Hill
Dub Pistols
Charles Dutoit
Eiffel 65
808 State
Eleven
Alecia Elliott
Emily
Eminem
EPMD
The Ernies
Erykah Badu
Melissa Etheridge
Eve
Factory 81
Jayo Felony
Fenix TX
Kim Ferron
Ivan Fischer
Fisher
Five Easy Pieces
Flaw
Renee Fleming
Fleming & John
Rosie Flores
Folk Implosion
Robben Ford
Willa Ford
Eboni Foster
Four Letr Word
4th Avenue Jones
Kirk Franklin
Freight Hoppers
Full Devil Jacket
Funkmaster Flex
Funky Derrick
Funky Green Dogs
Peter Gabriel
Gabrielle
Gandharvas
Garbage
Genovese
Valery Gergiev
Kathie Lee Gifford
Vance Gilbert
Vince Gill
Girls Vs. Boys
God Lives Underwater
Godsmack
Matthias Goerne
Goldfinger
Jeff Golub
Matt Goss
Amy Grant
Grenique
Patty Griffin
Lee Griffiths
Grinspoon
Guns N' Roses
Guy
GZA
H2O
Charlie Haden
Sammy Hagar
Aaron Hall
James Hall
Tom T. Hall
Hampenberg
Hanson
PJ Harvey
Imogen Heap
Eric Heatherly
Helmet
Jimi Hendrix
Tish Hinojosa
The Hippos
Christopher Hogwood
Hoku
Hole
Jennifer Holliday
David Holmes
Honeydogs
Shirley Horn
Hot Boys
House of Llama
Rebecca Lynn Howard
Ray Wylie Hubbard
Enrique Iglesias
IMx
Incognito
Injected
Insane Clown Posse
Isle of Q
Allen Iverson
Ja Rule
T.D. Jakes
Al Jarreau
Jay-Z
The Jazzyfatnastees
Jane Jensen
Jimmie's Chicken Shack
Beau Jocque & the Zydeco Hi-Rollers
JoeE
Joi
Shae Jones
Montell Jordan
Leila Josefowicz
Ronnie Joseph
Judds
Jurassic 5
Juvenile
K-Ci & Jo-Jo
Sammy Kershaw
Killah Priest
Killing Heidi
B.B. King
Kiss
Jordan Knight
Alison Krauss
Smokin' Joe Kubek
Fela Kuti
Femi Kuti
Patti LaBelle
Lamb
Jonny Lang
Murphy Lee
Lefty
Ute Lemper
Crystal Lewis
Laurie Lewis
Lifer
Lil' Troy
Lil' Wayne
Limp Bizkit
Live
Live
LLCool J
Local H
Lisa Loeb
Sinead Lohan
Alan Lomax
Longview
Traci Lords
The Love Dogs
Lyle Lovett
Nick Lowe
Lowpass
The Lox
Radu Lupu
Kami Lyle
Claire Lynch
Shelby Lynne
Natalie MacMaster
Majusty
Mamma Mia!
Marilyn Manson
Market
George Martin
Kathy Mattea
Del McCoury
Reba McEntire
Connie McKendrick
Connie McKendrick
Brian McKnight
Holly McNarland
MDFMK
Melky Sedeck
Method Man
Methods Of Mayhem
Mighty Mighty Bosstones
Mikaila
Lynn Miles
Minibar
Shane Minor
Tonya Mitchell
Molly's Yes
Mona Lisa
Monifah
Monster Magnet
Monster Magnet
Moody Blues
Chante Moore
Allison Moorer
Bill Morrissey
Mr. Cheeks
Ms. Toi
Mulberry Lane
Viktoria Mullova
Samantha Mumba
MXPX
Mya
Mytown
Leona Naess
Nelly
Willie Nelson
Ann Nesby
Never The Bride
New Radicals
Carrie Newcomer
Nields
Nine Inch Nails
98 Degrees
Nirvana
The Nixons
No Doubt
Noa
Johnny Nocturne
Jessye Norman
NRBQ
Jamie O'Neal
Ocean Colour Scene
Oleander
Evan Olson
One Way Ride
Onyx
Joan Osborne
John Oszajca
Other Star People
Seija Ozawa
Pastor Troy
Rahsaan Patterson
Ellis Paul
Luciano Pavarotti
Rod Piazza & the Mighty Flyers
The Pilfers
Plastiscene
Playa
John Popper
Possum Dixon
Post Stardom Depression
Powderfinger
Jesse Powell
Andre Previn
Kelly Price
Primer 55
Primus
Prince Quick Mix
The Prissteens
The Prissteens
Proffesional Murder Music
Profyle
Public Announcement
Puya
Que Bo Gold
Queen Pen
Queens of the Stone Age
R Angels
Rahzel
Jason Raize
Rakim
Ram Squad
Rammstein
Marky Ramone
Ramones
Rasheeda
Red Five
Redman
Reel Big Fish
Relative Ash
Remy Zero
Nadine Renee
Res
Reverend Horton Heat
Calvin Richardson
Kim Richey
Lionel Richie
Riders In the Sky
Andre Rieu
Steve Riley & the Mamou Playboys
Rival Schools
Smokey Robinson
Rocket from the Crypt
Pascal Roge
Roomful of Blues
The Roots
Michael Rose
Rosey
Diana Ross
Christophe Rousset
Ruby Horse
Ruff Ryders
Thomas Rusiak
Rusted Root
Matthew Ryan
S Club 7
Safri Duo
Philippe Saisse
Saliva
Sauce Money
Scarred for Life
Bob Schneider
Andreas Scholl
John Scofield
Seahorses
Semisonic
702
Shades Apart
Shades Apart
Shaggy
Gil Shaham
Shuvel
Beanie Sigel
Tommy Sims
Sinisstar
Sisqo
Sister Hazel
Six By Seven
Roni Size/Reprazent
Skycycle
Slash's Snakepit
Smashmouth
Stephan Smith
Snot
Snowpony
Soca Boys
Sir Georg Solti
Sonic Youth
Sonique
Sons Of The Desert
Soul Decision
Sparkle
Speak No Evil
Spin Doctors
SPM
St. Lunatics
Garrison Starr
Keith Stegall
Stella Soleil
Sticky Fingaz
Sting
Phoenix Stone
George Strait
Stroke
Stroke 9
Jimmy Sturr
Sublime
Sum 41
Supergrass
Supersuckers
Super Trans Atlantic
Suzanne Palmer
Sweet 75
Takacs Quartet
Susan Tedeschi
The Temptations
Danny Tenaglia
Texas
The The
Jean-Yves Thibaudet
IIIrd Tyme Out
This Means Raw
Irma Thomas
3 Doors Down
Toadies
Tonic
William Topley
The Transitions
Tony Trischka
2pac
Shania Twain
Twisted World
Twiztid
Twysted
U2
Mitsuko Uchida
Ugly Duckling
Unamerican
Unified Theory
Unwritten Law
Suzanne Vega
The Wallflowers
Toni Lynn Washington
Russell Watson
Weezer
Gillian Welch
Mike Welch
Weston
Cheryl Wheeler
The Whispers
White Zombie
Dwayne Wiggins
Hank Williams
Lucinda Williams
Mark Wills
Bebe Winans
Witness UK
Lee Ann Womack
Stevie Wonder
Chely Wright
Wylie & the Wild West
Wynonna
Trisha Yearwood
Ying Yang Twins
Young Turk
Rob Zombie
Zoppi
Here's a list of labels under Universal:
Farmclub.com
Interscope Geffen A&M
Island Def Jam Music Group
MCA Nashville
MCA Records
Motown Records
Mercury Nashville
Verve Music Group
Universal Classics
Universal Music Enterprises
Universal Records
Lost Highway
And this doesn't even tough on the smaller labels under each of those larger ones.
When Universal Music Group on Tuesday releases the soundtrack, ``Fast & Furious -- More Music,'' consumers won't be able to copy the music onto another CD or use their PCs to ``rip'' tracks in digital MP3 format.
.nfo excerpt. (had to trim it down, im curious to know what the lameness filter considers 'junk' characters)
I cant believe we wont be about to "rip" the tracks!
ARTIST: Various
TITLE: Fast And The Furious More Music
LABEL: Universal
192kbps - Soundtrack
0hr 51min total - 70MB
TRACK LISTING
01 4:08 Saliva - Superstar
02 3:21 Injected - Faithless
03 2:56 Hoobastank - Crawling In The Dark
04 1:45 BT - Dominics Story
05 3:28 Primer 55 - This Life
06 3:14 Machine Head - Crashing Around You
07 4:15 Roni Size - Idi Banashapan
08 3:50 Digital Assasins - Lock It Down
09 3:18 BT - Race Wars
10 4:13 Saliva - Click Click Boom
11 3:37 Greenwheel - Shelter
12 3:03 Benny Cassette - Watch Your Back
13 3:23 Molotov - Pocas Palabras
14 6:37 BT - The Fast And Furious Theme
yes, this is a
I for one could care less what Universal tries to do... In a nutshell:
1) If I can hear it, I can re-encode it. Go ahead and waste your time and money on 'copy protection'. cf: Apple ][ games, circa 1980
2) I'm not going to buy anything that I can't do with as I please. I'm not going to resell it to 500 people, blah blah blah, but if I feel like mixing it on a disc so I don't have to lug 10 discs with me, or if I feel like backing up my masters and using the dupes in the car (protect myself against theft), then god damn it, that's what I'm going to do.
3) Stop ripping us off. Lower the freekin' prices. Then kids won't have to get together to cobble up $15 for a CD with one good song to share. Do ya think, that maybe, just maybe, if you charged $0.50 per song, that every kid would buy a copy?
4) I'm done buying music. I'm sick of being raped by the "industry". So right back at ya morons - I'm never buying music again. Never. Ever. I will copy it from the Net, friends, whereever... You brought it on yourself, so I hope you're happy...
Whelp, this won't work for reasons obvious to most anyone who frequents Slashdot...
It's just a shame they didn't have forward-thinking folks working for them.
I told a friend of mine about 10 years ago that I'd email him a movie in a few years, because we had gotten together and he meant to get a copy of some movie I had on VHS at the time - more or less, I was right...come on, it doesn't take much imagination! Given the rise of network/internet/connection speeds and the increase of desktop computing power/dropping prices - it's 2+2!
They should have predicted music swapping before the CD standard was created! Obviously not mp3/napster/gnutella/news group posting specifically, but certainly something along those lines...
They could have invented a standard and spread it far and wide and experimented with alternate revenue sources and alternate distribution sources in the early 80's - now, too little too late...
Tootles, music industry as we know it, been nice knowin' ya!
The recording industry is using every means at its disposal to gain leverage for the SSSCA or something like it. In the current environment, I don't believe there's any way to counteract the numerous lines of attack "copy protection" afford the industry.
No, I'm convinced that we'll only truly begin to make a difference after tougher legislation goes into effect. In addition to the hurdles listed above, most people--most Slashdot readers--aren't motivated by calls to not act and to forgo listening to their favorite music. The whole reason we're angry is because we want to enjoy our music. We'll only start to shine when what's needed is positive action taken, not to attempt counter-maneuvers against the RIAA, but simply to use technology the way we want to use it and the way we know it can be used.
I say, let them copy protect all the CDs they want. It will ultimately be no protection at all.
Robert Hutchinson
Robert Hutchinson
Smash it. Smash it good.
there is freely available software to crack those CDs. So: buy it, crack+rip it, return it. Now you've saved around 10 bucks on that, right? You can make some extra copies and give them away right outside the store you've bought that CD in a first place. Piss them off! They've deserved it.
I can't speak for most people, but I've bought somewhere around a thousand CDs, and my equipment is pretty crappy. Laziness, I guess. Typing credit card # in web form and waiting for box == easy. Getting off fat ass and going to a store that sells hardware == hard. Maybe I should buy audio equipment through mail like I buy CDs and computers. Hey, that's an idea...
As I understand it, any files put on a CD to use in a computer would be in some sort of secure WMA format. I think the key is that that it would be Windows Media Audio. Does that mean that the included files would only work on Windows systems? Could you be forced to upgrade WMP and Windows itself just to play the extra content? Not only could this sort of thing increase the MS monopoly by shutting out Apple, Linux, etc, it could force the user to spend extra money to use something that they already own!
All at Universal ...
I must respectfully disagree with your recent policy decision of putting copy protection on all CDs you release, thereby making teh CDs unplayable on a lot of equipment. I have no intention of purchasing CDs that will not play on my Macintoshes at home or PCs at work, much less my boombox from 5 years ago. I am an artist (http://www.mp3.com/fallingyou), and I have to say that this recent development does not sit well with me.
Please reconsider this decision.
Respectfully,
John Michael Zorko
300 Braemoor Dr
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
Falling You - exploring the beauty of voice and sound
http://www.mp3.com/fallingyou
*****
Remember -- when writing, a courteous tone is much more likely to result in the feedback being actually read than vitriol.
Regards,
John
Falling You - beautiful
How much would it hurt them if instead of NOT buying the cd, buy and return it with complaint.
Would Universal have to eat the cost? Would the retailer be quite annoyed by the larger return process? Hmmmm.
Songs are a subset of music.
If you meant that you don't like _songs_, fine. There are plenty of reasons for that. Some people don't care for the human voice. Others are annoyed with popular music's lyrics. (Godsmack, for example. =D ) I can understand that.
But if you meant that you don't like _music_, then I guess you don't want to listen to "some retard" playing music in the background of your movies to enhance emotional content. When Bruce Willis is pissed off, and the "someone's gonna be in a world of hurt soon" music is playing, I'm sure that turns you off.
I like listening to music while I work. It drowns out conversations (usually between dumb customers and frustrated tech support personnel) nearby. What turns me off, is a record label forcing me to rip new tunes off the CD before I can listen to them at work.
Record labels are becoming real f'ing obstacles. It's time to solve this problem. Help develop an open-source, web-based music-selling system. When it's ready, help most major artists get online and set up. Problem solved.
Hmm... let's look at the record labels for the CDs that arrived in this week's mail:
- Virgin (And Then There Was Silence)
- Century Media (Live On the Edge of Forever)
- Nuclear Blast (Wayne's Metal Church)
- Noise (No World Order)
- Nuclear Blast (The Grave Digger)
- Leviathan (In Dementia)
- AFM, a division of Creative Entertainment (Mandrake)
- LMP (Rain of a Thousand Flames)
- Victor (Rebirth (Japanese version))
- Century Media (Mechanized Warfare)
Either Universal is damned obscure, or they're a holding company, or they're not really in the music business. Oh wait -- I just realized what's happening. Although I buy 10 or 20 CDs a month, I'm actually part of the declining sales problem, because I don't listen to pop. Go figure.You ignorantly spewed:
"If I wanted a degraded signal I'd go back to tapes and vinyl (and please, no audiofile flames about sound range and that stuff, okay?)."
Sorry, but analog (including vinyl) is still superior in terms of sound quality despite it's technical limitations. You know not what you are talking about. Oh, yea: what about 30ips master tapes? Right... just crawl back under the rock you came from.
Hi Jon,
Me again. Same disclaimers as above.
I know I was rambling before, but my point was really that it is those kids in middle America who are not going to be able to easily rip CDs anymore. First the CDs won't rip (so they download something to get around that), then maybe the CD player just wont recognize the music CD anymore (bootleg PROM for you CD drive might fix that), then your BIOS or some proprietary chip (DMCA on a chip?) won't let you do it so you buy a dongle or adapter or PCI card and finally your OS (if you use Windows) won't let you do it.
How many of the average kids in America is going to be able to keep up with that?
You hit the nail on the head exactly - it's easy now. Very soon it will not be easy and the tools shipped with your Gateway won't help you to do it anymore. Suddenly Johnny has to get his head out of the paper bag full of glue and learn what makes his computer tick. Not likely.
Making it hard or impossible for the "everyman" is what it's all about. I guarantee you that will be done. Give it a couple of years, five at the outside, and you'll be "mod chipping" your computer to give you the functionality you have today. Unfortunately the people who make the mod chips (at least in the U.S.) will end up in jail.
For the tech guys who can take care of it for everyone else and post the music un-encrypted it will be an ugly and pointless proof of dominance. There's no percentage for Universal in rounding up wide-eyed pre-teens and prosecuting them. But it's easy to find a few hundred people and prosecute them, especially if the industry can spin them as "dirty hackers" or the equivalent. They don't even have to bring them to trial anymore. Look at Mitnick? They (the government) put him away and shut the door without a trial or conviction. That will become the rule instead of the exception. Delay as long as possible with huge bail so the defendent has to sit and rot.
Universal knows that nobody gives a hoot about the music industry so instead of trying to play off of people's morals and fears (remember a few years ago?) about not stealing they're going to force it down the people's throat and there is nothing grandma (who loves Hank Snow) or the kids (Metallica) are going to be able to do, because it just wont be there. The liability issue for the ISPs might be enough to kill it right there.
We'll see, but bet on the people who have a listing on the NYSE.
Jack
Just let them dig their own graves. The other record companies are wise to let Universal be the guinea pigs.
Another point - the article calls Napster a "Phenomenon" which is quite funny. A more appopriate choice of terms would have been "commonplace occurance". Napster was merely the first. There are so many sharing services out there right now, it's almost innummerable - with the Kazaa and Gnutella networks, and all their different clients. Best part? They can't shut down any of it.
This is will probably be quite the PR snafu for Universal, as they are screwing the hand that feeds them. Just my opinion anyways.
Contrary to popular belief, I don't actually make my website for other people to look at.
Here is the best quote in the article:
"The industry says it needs to use the lock-box approach to music to prevent consumers, armed with CD-authoring software and hardware and a quick Internet connection, from downloading and burning the recording industry out of existence."
If inherently flawed technology and government intervention are the only things standing between the recording industry and oblivion, then they have already lost. The RIAA folks have forgotten their high school economics classes. The laws of economics are more powerful than the laws of the USA and the EU. And the laws of economics dictate that a middleman adding no value is doomed. These middlemen no longer add value, they now merely represent a costly inefficiency.
Of course he frowns on it as unprofessional.
Listening to music through the headphones makes it hard to hear the McNuggets orders.
NERF WAR EVERYBODY! YOU'RE IT!
just out of curiousity, why on earth would you EVER want an even crappier analogue copy of something you could just as easily have a digital copy of? most stand-alone cd players, including many portables (like my sony d-ej915) have a digital out, whether that be coax or fiber optic. i'm not sure how many of these players have SCMS (serial copy management system) enabled (as most sony DAT recorders do; this prevents more than one digital copy from an original source) but i'm sure there are several brands out there that don't have it. so do yourself a favor and get a digital sound card with a digital input.
as for the numerous references to 'cheesy bubblegum pop,' this has and will always exist. even if it doesn't appeal to you, the fact that millions and millions of albums have sold means it does appeal to someone. lots of someones. admittedly, the audience is mostly teens and pre-teens. but there has been and always will be "crap". the reasons we consider beethoven, brahms, strauss, etc. to be greats are because 1)they truly wrote great, meaningful, talent-based music, and 2)they had a wasteland full of crap to stand out against. and in more modern times, out of all the bands from the 50's and 60's, can you name more than a handful of them that had at least 5 memorable songs? to sum this up, one man's trash is another man's treasure. sure, insert random boy/girl band here's lyrics/music may lack "substance", whatever that means, but does that mean that dreamtheater must have substance? bottom line, music sells because someone likes it, not because someone told them to buy it.
and stop ogling at the 13 year olds on trl
--igor
Buy them, rip them on some obscure device that can (like a Macintosh) and return them since they don't work in your DVD player :)
Excellent!
And then write a letter to the consumer section of your local paper and post some flyers near the record store warning them about the ripoffs. Post them near high schools and universities too.
Caveat emptor!
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
randomly looking at a dictionary:)
From your chopping and cutting definition comes the general term "to hack" or "a hack" -- namely someone who uses blunt force to achieve their aims. Writers who are "hacks" pound away at their typewriters "cranking out" stories or "hacking away" at deadlines. The phrase isn't specialized to programmers, and there's no reason why the general public should be ignorant of it's more subtle meanings. There really has been a propaganda campaign portraying technically literate people as anarchists who wield uncanny powers and should be mistrusted. And no, it has nothing to do with axes, but with control of information which some poeple have the skills to bypass.
When in doubt, have a man come through a door with a gun in his hand.
Two percent is a Death Spiral and one percent is nothing? That's one hell of an inflection point.
I bought a good tape deck and a good turntable and make copies to CD. There is tons of good music out there I haven't listened to, and I would like to restate what someone else did: "not only are the CDs too expensive, they also suck." or something to that effect. The mass-market garbage the recording industry has been shoving down the throats of consumers for the last 10 years is finally coming to a head. Theft of their music is what they deserve when their sole motivation is profit through assimilation. Perhaps their focus groups were too effective?
I don't mind paying for a CD, but 20 bucks for an album that has been reissued billions of times from a long dead band is a freaking crime.
i guess Apple got this one right! think about it... are u going to buy theses cd's? NO! neither am I, i'm gonna get MP3's adn the MP3 industry is going boom from this bullshit! so who is going to profit? CD Player makers or MP3 player makers?
If they ship these CDs, they in effect steal money from me: the high-end DVD player that has lower jitter than CD players, my computer in the office, etc. all become less valuable, because I can't listen to my music anymore.
That is stealing MY MONEY from me, by depriving me of utility that i PAID for when I bought these devices.
In order to bring that scale back in balance, I now feel compelled to steal at least as much music as to make up the lost utility of my equipment. Then I will have to compensate myself for the additional time and effort it will take me to exercise my fair use rights (such as listening to the music I paid for on my computer, DVD player, etc.)
This means, every CD I buy I will have to first transfer to a new CD, which costs time and CD-R blanks. In other words, by the time I buy a CD, copy it to make it usable on my preferred playback system, a DVD player, I spent so much money in time and materials, that I will have to return the CD for a full refund and still make a loss compared to buying a non-protected CD.
As a matter of fact, we should get paid for buying CDs, copying them, and returning them, just to make up for the hassle it takes to be able to play back the music on the devices we want to use.
Now as to get a decent copy:
from what I understood is that they put gaps and format errors on the disk, which CD-ROM drives, etc. stumble over?
If that's the case, get a digital audio interface for your computer with a SPIF input, play the CD track by track on a CD player with digital out, and dump the tracks into Toast, and burn a new, clean digital copy. Rip to MP3 as you wish. Return the CD to the store.
If however they mess with the actual digital data on the disk, using the error correction and interpolation features of CD-players to make up for it, then they not only make the disks unplayable, but also destroy the sonic integrity of the sound. At this point they also hurt the artists by not fulfilling their obligation to deliver the artists work in a way that best captures the artists intentions. Get a high-quality AD-converter with a SPDIF interface, hook it up to the computer, high-end CD-player to the AD-converter. Then proceed as with the digital setup.
In any case: return the CDs! It should not be rewarded if people steal you valuable life time by making you waste it copying CDs that you purchased, just to be able to play it back on a high-end setup.
Some of the best CD players are DVD players, because video playback demands lower jitter. Some of the highest end reference CD players are in fact based on DVD and CD ROM drives, e.g. the Meridian Reference 800 series, which costs upwards $10'000 (yes, that's five digits). I think if you had bought one of these and couldn't play back your CDs anymore, you'd be somewhat pissed.
I just ordered an APEX AD-7701 DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, SACD, CD, MP3-CD player. I doubt it will be able to read these CDs.
And I have probably over 2000 CDs for which I have paid, but now I have a serious motivation to copy CDs that I never had before.
http://www.universalstudios.com/homepage/html/cont act_us/
I knew this was coming... the onset of true evil. So, I just went out and bought the 40+ CDs that have been on my "most wanted" list but never got around to buying, before the copy protection sets in. Once they start selling protected CDs exclusively, I doubt I'll ever buy one again, at least not from an actual store.
:)
I've seen a lot of comments regarding protesting by returning protected CDs to the store, forcing the store to restock them. For those of you who think this won't have any effect, think again. I'm not sure about physical stores, but online sellers like Amazon are forced to send returns back to the fulfillment house. This has a devastating effect on the fulfillment companies. It costs them more to accept returns than it does to buy the discs from the record labels in the first place, because they can't return them. They get stuck with the returned stock. If enough people do this, I guarantee you that protected CDs will go away. The only question is, how many people will actually do it?
I have a friend who used to work for Valley, the biggest CD fulfillment company. According to him, when you buy a disc online, this is most likely where it actually comes from. The same probably holds true for physical CD stores. He says that returns are very painful for the aforementioned reason, and he believes an effective protest will probably cause them to complain loudly to the labels.
Regardless, I plan to buy very few discs when this all begins. But when I do, it will be from Amazon, and I'll promptly return them if they're copy-protected. Not before burning a playable copy and converting to MP3, however.
Despite what the labels say about copy protection, all of the various forms of protection can be gotten around. I have evaluated four of the different copy protection schemes that are being/will be used by the labels, and with the right software/CD ROM drive, they can all be defeated without too much trouble. They will only thwart your average, less technical user from copying them. Even if they do come up with a truly effective protection scheme some day, you can always plug a CD player into your sound card and copy analog. Not optimal, but if you're returning the disc anyway, at least you have something to listen to.
First off, the obvious: hook stero to sound card, rip from there. Or, just crack encoding. Had to throw that one out there. Now for what this post is really about. Obviously, this is not just about preventing ripping. It is a legal manuever to limit our right to rip legally, as ripping would now involove bypassing the encryption, whcih would in turn violate the DCMA...we can fix the problem, but we must be organized to do it. It is a court battle, one that will surely happen, but it requires the maturity of us, the consumer. Look at Napster. Their case failed. Look at boards on the Napster case. What is posted on them? 2lgt2qt: d00dz, THE RIAA IS GAY!!!!! NAPSTER RULEZ!!! ST00PID RECARD CUMPANYS!!! This must be avoided. If we act like we are serious, which we should be, we will get out way. If Universal will repay the store for all returned merchandise, even if opened, then it is our job to go buy a couple CDs, open them, and return them, claiming that they didn't play. However, shrink wrap machines exist, so they can just repackage the CD and resell it...that means that something must be done to make the CD unplayable in any format. Or something to the case. Something so that physically, the CD can't be repackaged and sold. And anyways, after managers have to repackage 20-30 CD's the first week, they are going to get tired of it. Not to mention if people are crappy with management when they return the 'unplayable' CD. Yes, I realized (after reading over them) that the two statements above may seem to contradict each other. But one is our public image (most of which is seen not from us, but from a computer screen), and the other is our rights as consumers. I, personally, will be on the phone with retail regional managers, the BBB, my Congressman, and everyone else who may be able to aid the hinderence of the music labels. This looks like a job for...the ACLU!
Please don't flame me, I'm just brainstorming here. If someone was truly worried about fidelity, couldn't they get a high-end CD player with S/PDIF out and use it with some set of computer audio hardware (SB LiveDrive2 or even higher-end equipment) to get near-perfect results? Of course, the pollution of the original stream because of their "copy protection" would still be there, but at least this would minimize any further signal degradation.
Ok if you REALLY want to make a copy of one of these so called copy protected CD's all you need to do is run the your stereo's output through your sound card. Then use Musicmatch or other Ripper to record the PC's line in... You can then create your MP3 from the WAV file and distribute / burn to CD or what ever else you want to do. I already copied this CD to my personal PC as WAV and converted to MP3. I bought the CD to see if it could be done. I cheated a little but my recording sounds perfect. the music companies are fighting a no win battle. I'm sure someone will break the DRM on this. In any event ou can always record the analog signal from your stereo.
Its hard to get exposed to new music at all. With a large number of radio stations all owned by the same 2-3 companies, the playlists are astonishingly similar. You hear the same sets of music by the same "artists" every 2 hours or so.
The only real opportunity one has is to find a local college station or independent station to hear a wider variety of music and musical genre's. MTV used to be a way to get exposed to new music (now they hardly play videos anymore or if they do they are the same 10 in TRL everyday which have little girls screaming about how great the artists are with the their voices louder than the songs. It doesnt even help that the videos are cut short anyways.) I do have to admit that MTVX does play a wide variety of new and old rock as well as the other MTV2 networks.
The best way to find new music is still from friends, especially musician friends since music is their passion.
No wonder sales are down when stations won't take the risk to explore new artists and musical genre's. When you are hearing "Get yo freak on" on 3 stations at once, why would you want to buy that cd since its on all the time, and secondly, how are you going to buy the single from anyone else since you can't hear anyone else!
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
Sounds great, looks great, and it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. O wait, that the beer talking...
The RIAA have obviously been duped by scheming encryption programmers, who have convinced them that they should funnel money into the endless blackhole that is "copy protection."
Man, I got to get me a piece of that action...
Until they figure out a way to keep me from just running a line out of the "approved" playback device, and running it into my soundcard, they're just throwing money down the drain. Encryption doesn't make ripping impossible, just inconvient. And if it takes longer to rip a CD then it does to download, (because there will be copies online), then I guess I'll just download it.... and as long as I'm going to download it, I guess I'll put off buying the CD until next week... unless of course I decide to spend my 12 bucks on something else...
Instead of not buying them, or merely returning them: Buy them, get around the copy protection, burn yourself a copy, and one for all you 3rd cousin's friend's uncles, then return it to the store claiming that it didn't work with your cd player/computer/ps2/....... this may be illeagal, but, it will show record companies who's boss
There is a program... It is called CloneCD that has been around quite awhile and just so happens to copy copy-protected cd's. The way it does this is by writing in "raw mode" and is as close to bit-by-bit copying as is currently possible. (Granted, the copied cd's may not be playable on computers, just as the originals are not.. thus may be the beast of such an "exact" copy!)
http://www.13kingdoms.com/odd - Absolute Stupidity!
Warren G - Return of the Regulators
Numbers on Disk - 4400161212
Came out a couple of weeks ago on Universal
My husband was so excited to get it. Get out to the car. Put it in the player (Sony 7 years old), player makes all sorts of odd noises. It still plays, but the cd player makes incredible noise getting it to do so. Doesn't do this normally, just with this disk.
Take it in house at home. Won't play on home stereo system, top of the line Sony CD player that's about 6 or 7 years old. Well, actually plays but sounds completely is screwed up and distorted.
Try to burn a copy using Adaptec Easy CD Creator 4. Result is so unlistenable its hard to believe. Pops, clicks, everything you can think of.
Posted the information to fatchucks.com. Receive a nice letter in response.
Husband sent letter to Warren G and Universal, saying that while we attempted to buy the cd in good faith, now we have to illegally download copies if we want ones of good quality.
Not sure what to do next. We'll probably return it to the store so the 60-year-old lady at the service counter can fail to understand and tell us all we can do is exchange it.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
Do you honestly believe that at some point you were getting more value than you are right now? What in the fuck are you thinking? Movies and music have always sucked with a handful of exceptions every couple of years. The whole entertainment industry is based on paying alot of money for something someone may or may not think is worth spending money on. You're a dumbfuck and I can't believe some son of a bitch modded you up. You're saying that everyone ought to quit everything just because someone is rich and they aren't? Not buying shit advertised in magaziens and on television means magazines go out of print and television shows go off their air. If no one buys books first hand they won't be fucking available second hand you jackass.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
And it won't even stop people from ripping MP3s I bet.
Good. Then once it rips I'll burn my own copies since buying them isn't an option for me. I can't play them!
They of course will then blame MP3s on their deminished sales. I swear, the more 5417 that they do the less frequently I buy CDs. Before it all started I not only bought CDs regularly, I ripped them constantly and played them on my computer. I downloaded them very infrequently because quite frankly I LIKE having the original CDs, even if my CDs have become nothing more than a collection (as a medium, they are worthless.)
But anymore I almost don't care to buy CDs unless they are from my absolute favorite artists (Weird Al, Garbage, to name a couple...)
Screw the rest of 'em.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Vote everywhere.
...
Nowdays, record companies are part of 5 major media companies.
Vivendi Universal
Sony
Disney
Berthelsmann
AOL Time Warner
Fnord!
Don't just stop buying music from them. Stop buying everything from them. Only buy what they offer without direct cost recovery. You'll make them loose money.
They own record labels, movie studios, TV & radio stations, Internet access providers,
Keep in touch with news. Find about the economical sectors where they loose money. Bleed them to death.
Don't buy CD records, go to the concerts (where your money is actually beneficial to the artist).
Don't buy DVD, go to the theater (which are just a way to advertise DVDs).
Don't buy cable TV (these really enslave your wallet to theirs).
Don't connect to the Internet through them, but access (slashdot?) their portals (with junkbuster) regularly.
Use up free SMS services.
...
Nothing in the previous is illegal (to my knowledge) but it will hurt them if we are disciplined enough to do it on a large scale.
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-8225543.html? tag=mn_hd reports that the "the disc also comes with a toll-free help line and Web site".
:)
The domain, musiconlinehelp.com, is currently not registered. Someone should register it, and put up a website that REALLY explains copy protected discs...
Scenario 1
Choose from:
A) Bootleg CD with dodgy photocopied sleeve: £4
B) Home copy - no artwork: £1
C) Original Disc: £14
D) MP3 - Takes 3 hours to download: Free
I'll go for A.
Scenario 2
Choose from:
A) Bootleg CD with dodgy photocopied sleeve: £4
B) Home copy - no artwork: £1
C) Original Disc: £7
D) MP3 - Takes 3 hours to download: Free
I'll go for C.
'Nuff said.
... and the rest will just copy it. And if they manage to control everything, will it become ilegal to make your own music and give it for free in electronic format?
I know I will do it if the situation gets worsening. They are promoting a very angry group of people that will eventualy get more invonved in fighthing their ways to increase their revenue. Their are going to loose sales.
There was a time when the client was always right.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
And I can even record a normal CD out of the WAV files, and SELL it to my friends!
Hey Joe, do you want the New "Nobody Knows me" CD that plays even in computers??
Do you honestly believe that at some point you were getting more value than you are right now?
Let's see: a year ago I only had to worry about not wanting to listen to the music on a CD, now I have to worry about not being able to listen to it. That's a clear decrease in value.
You're a dumbfuck and I can't believe some son of a bitch modded you up.
Despite the eloquent phrasing of this convincing argument, I'm going to have to politely disagree.
You're saying that everyone ought to quit everything just because someone is rich and they aren't?
Um, no. I don't even want to know where you pulled that out of...
Not buying shit advertised in magaziens and on television means magazines go out of print and television shows go off their air.
Bingo. I had a feeling you understood more than you were letting on. The problem isn't with a product or a company, it is with a business model. If "reality" shows fail, the networks will just latch onto the next thing. If Fox goes under, someone else will build another network. However, when American auto manufacturers were losing ground to the Japanese because the market had shifted toward fuel economy, they had to produce more value to stay in business. The entertainment industry on the other hand acts ahead of market shifts (Survivor clones were everywhere as soon as there was any popularity in the US) and forces market shifts by tightly controlling availability and distribution, ensuring market dominance. There is no real competition to support and demonstrate your opposition (anything that could pose a threat to the current market dominance is quickly absorbed or blocked, as with Napster, DeCSS, anyone who got in Microsoft's way, etc.), so the only option is not to support the entertainment industry itself. Let it fall. Let the advertising driven media crumble; after all, when you buy into this advertising you pay for the product, the advertising, the source of the ad placement, and everything in between - TANSTAAFL. If there truly is a need, the industry will either adapt or die. In the words of Jay Sherman, "If the movie stinks, just don't go!" Finally, in the spirit of movie advertising:
"The whole entertainment industry is based on ... fucking ... you[,] jackass."
I couldn't agree more.
[lameness filter evasion]
90% of the flamewars here could be avoided if the person had the maturity to say "oops, I was wrong." Heck, I wonder if 90% of all wars could be avoided if the parties involved were able to admit their fault. I guess pride is quite a powerful thing...
-------
"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
Heh, you're right, and I should say "oops, I was wrong" to follow up with this guy, thereby resulting in a flamewar. So, "oops, that was stoopid of me." :)
But what does my opinion matter, I just vote here. It's not like I have any money or anything.
Is there any possibility that ThinkGeek would give bulk pricing on their Anti-RIAA stickers??
I for one would love to slap these everywhere I could, but at $1.50 a pop, that not feasible for my budget.
So let me get this straight. These copy-protected CD's can be played in currently available CD players. Previously announced copy-protection schemes involved introducing random values into the digital data, creating spikes in the analog output. CD players have hardware that looks for things like this and smoothes out the glitches, while taking the digital audio as-is keeps the glitches. Why can't this be done in software when ripping? Seems to me like you would do some extra processing on the digital audio before coverting to mp3, wouldn't be all that difficult. This would defeat all of these types of copy-protection. Where is the problem?
My nightmare is that I would buy one, and that it would *work* -- and then I'd be stuck with it.
So buy only albums by artists in genres that you like. For example, if you don't like gangsta rap, don't serially buy the latest release by the late 2Pac.
However, the oil companies will make a killing off this strategy, as you haul the CDs back and forth from Worst Buy to your test site. So buy ten or so discs and make trips to the store after testing about five of them.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Keep in mind the only people they are stopping are the people who legally copy the tracks. For every 10 people that download MP3's, 1 will know what she/he is doing and will be able to rip these new cd's. The track is still going to get to the peer-peer networks. So only the legit copies will be banned.
If you ban guns, only the criminals will have the guns.
Buy them, lots of them. Try to listen to them on your computer, then when they don't work, try to return them. Tell them you don't own a CD player except for the one on your computer and that you cannot play it.
If you have a PlayStation game console (original, PSOne, or PS2), you can make this even more convincing: "I have a Sony CD player, model SCPH yadda yadda yadda" where you substitute the model number on the bottom of the PlayStation unit. You're telling the truth. Sony sells the PlayStation console as a device to play CD-DA discs and PSX games, so technically, a PlayStation console is a "CD player made by Sony," but employees of Worst Buy and Circuit Shitty are more likely to take you seriously if you mention "Sony" (electronics brand) rather than "PlayStation" (video games).
Will I retire or break 10K?
1. The price of CD's are still high.
Even though the compact disc still costs $17 in the US, the average dollar income of the consumer has risen due to inflation. Therefore, CDs are less expensive relative to the Consumer Price Index now than they were in the mid-1980s when CDs began to become popular.
2. There isn't anything worth listening too anymore.
I find this correct for the most part.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Here's the text of 17 USC 1201 (the part of the DMCA that slashdotters care about). Subsections (c)(1) and (c)(2) does not provide that fair use is a defence to "circumvention" but instead establishes that the offence of "circumvention" is completely orthogonal to "infringement." Subsection (c)(3) says "This is not the SSSCA... yet." Subsection (c)(4), which protects free speech/press, makes it clear that the RIAA cannot use the DMCA against Felten.
Our biggest shot at making the DMCA moot may lie with subsection (a)(2)(B): "a technological measure 'effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title' if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, prevents, restricts, or otherwise limits the exercise of a right of a copyright owner under this title." The right to restrict fair use is not "a right of a copyright holder under this title" without some heavy circular logic.
Another way is to attack "a work protected under this title" by making a CSS'd DVD containing a film whose copyright has expired. Public domain works are not "work[s] protected under this title." The DMCA is nothing without repeated copyright term extensions to keep copyrighted works copyrighted. Then we can release a device marketed for playing this public-domain DVD that just "happens to work" on copyrighted DVDs and thus satisfy the substantial non-infringing purpose requirement of 1201(a)(2).
Will I retire or break 10K?
Sorry, but analog (including vinyl) is still superior in terms of sound quality despite it's technical limitations.
Few people can hear much above 19 kHz, and CDs can flawlessly encode any sound containing frequencies as high as 21.9 kHz. The -96 dB noisefloor of 16-bit linear PCM is lower than the Brownian noise of the air molecules in the recording studio. The "warmer" sound of vinyl is actually harmonic distortion caused by friction of the needle against the groove.
Read more in my article about digital DJing.
Read more on r3mix.net, especially the 'myths' section.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I wonder of they are marketing these discs as CD's If they are "CD"'s under the law, and they have the little CD logo on them then they are required to conform to the redbook audio spec (i.e. no scemes).
I wonder if they would sell if they were not labeled as "CD"'s...
to be fully available on Morpheus and Kazaa just like everything else...its not like there is nobody out there with a hot stereo hooked up to their machine...give me a break.
Hell, it will proabably increase demand on p2p networks, so become EVEN MORE available once someone rips a single decent copy...
f
why won't the record company just compete instead of restrict...
Your signatures belong to me.
I just hope they don't find a way to move this action -- or bring another one against you -- in lawyers-allowed court.
Of course, even if you win, collecting your judgement is no simple matter. It's pretty common for the defendent in this kind of case to just ignore the whole thing, on the assumption that nobody will make a major effort to collect a small judgement. Or, when the defendent is some huge corporation, it's quite likely that they whole thing will just disappear into their legal bureaucracy.
But that might work in your favor. Even if the judge thinks you're crazy, he might have to find for you if the case is uncontested. And then if they just ignore your attempts to collect, your costs get added to the judgment. (Be sure to track the time you spend trying to collect. It's a legitimate expense, though you probably won't get compensated at a very high rate.) They can end up owing you a lot of money!
I remember one weird case that happened a long time ago. A law student at UC Davis had his rent deposit illegally withheld. The landlord was a big entity that simply ignored his attempts to recover the deposit, even after the student went into "it's the principle" mode and started going after them every way he could figure out. He didn't have an easy time of it, even though he had the training to pull every possible legal string.
But in the end, he found himself at a seizure auction for the apartment building he had previously lived in. The owners were still ignoring him. In fact, he was the only person, aside from officials and auctioneers, who bothered to show up. The officials decided he was entitled to bid the amount he was owed without putting any money down, since he would just be paying himself. With no other bids, he won the auction.
Your milage may vary!
It's degraded to the point that our corporate-centric society is practically breeding American youth like cattle
So we should be worrying not about 1984 but instead about 802701?
Will I retire or break 10K?
You sound like those Linux users who struggle with crappy browsers [mozilla.org]
Exactly how is Mozilla crappy?
because there's no good office suite
Ever heard of KOffice 1.1.1?
just so they can "stick it to the man in Redmond."
No, just so I can preserve my freedoms.
Will I retire or break 10K?