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Ethernet MP3 Player

Posted by michael on from the ping-your-stereo dept.

Erik Johansson writes: "You can now stream mp3s to your stereo, the guys at slimdevices seems to be building a bonafide ethernet mp3 player. There are some cool pictures of the soldering sweatshop, so perhaps it isn't vaporware?"

232 comments

  1. Oh sweet! by baptiste · · Score: 3, Interesting
    That is one sweet little device! Nice to see someone go with a flourescent display instead of backlit LCD - they are more expensive, but so easier to read!

    Man - hand soldering SMD board s- not a fun task! More power to these guys! I'm signing up for one for sure - my MP3 server is screaming for something like this!

    The more of us that sign up and buy - the sooner they'll get ne in a nice box :)

    --
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  2. Insaine! by xeos · · Score: 1

    That looks insanely hard to solder. Wow. I'd not believe it, but look at all those chips. A good fake if it is fake.

    1. Re:Insaine! by baptiste · · Score: 5, Informative
      Its actually not impossible. SMD chips come with solder coated pins. The PCBs have a coat of solder on the pads as well. You spary flux on the board and heat the pins to join the pins and pad together. They make special heads for soldering irons to fit various SMD package types so you can heat all the pins at once.

      Its not easy but it can be done. If enough folks order them, however, it'll make economic sense for them to get them made in a fab facility.

      And I'm sure its not a fake. Embedded devices have gotten very powerful. You can fit an entire ethernet capable Java computer with its own embedded JVM, filesystem, etc on a SIMM size card. An MP3 player that just reads a socket stream, decodes the MP3 and outputs audio is not super complex. Its not childs play but its certainly something an embedded system could do. Can't wait to get mine - gonna be fun to finally hook up my stereo to my RAID5 MP3 array :)

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      Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
    2. Re:Insaine! by seanadams.com · · Score: 5, Informative

      It is certainly possible, but it's not easy. The SliMP3 firmware is, AFAIK, the only modern IP stack to have been entirely hand-coded in assembler. The hardware we're using is a PIC microcontroller, along with a custom chip (prototyped in a Xilinx CPLD) for doing DMA transfer through an SRAM to the MPEG decoder. It's a rather different design than other embedded Internet platforms - we're cranking 10Mbps through system built around a 20Mhz, 8-bit microcontroller. Of course you don't need this kind of throughput for an MPEG *audio* stream...

    3. Re:Insaine! by baptiste · · Score: 2
      I thought your prototype chips looked like they had Microchip logos on them. Very sweet. I wasn't saying it was a walk in the park, but my point was it was doable and many have done it, even with PICs - though an assmebler stack - now that's impressive. It was by no means fake :)

      Keep up the great work - can't wait till you guys are ready to ship - I'm into embedded design myself (and have also spent many hours in the sldering sweatshop station :) ) and would love to get my hands on one of these babies :)

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      Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
    4. Re:Insaine! by flocto · · Score: 1

      It's not imposible at all. The german computer magazine "c't" had two articles about how to build an mp3-decoder for the parallel port back in 1999.. You can find the details on their website [heise.de, german only, sorry].

      On the site I found a link to http://www.mp3pump.de/ which looks rather interesting. This "Pump II" named project supports ide for harddisc(s) and/or cdrom-drive(s), ethernet for network-access, serial ports for keyboard and mouse and, of course, digital and analog outputs. Additionally you can attach a display to it. I didn't take a close look yet, but it looks quite grown up.. According to the website it shouldn't be a problem to run linux on it and since everybody's welcome to develop their own software for this device I think it's a very interesting alternative to, let's say, audiotron..

      It doesn't ship yet, though, but they already built 100 devices and are testing the software now.

    5. Re:Insaine! by stripes · · Score: 2
      The SliMP3 firmware is, AFAIK, the only modern IP stack to have been entirely hand-coded in assembler.

      Modern in what way?

      You are right, the other microcontroler IP stack I know of is quite old (late 80s, or at least pre-1992). Steve Holmgrin's (may be misspelled) IP stack for some random microcontroler that had 8K of OTP ROM and 4K of RAM, and I think a 6502 like instruction set. He wrote a small FORTH like language, and then a IP stack including TCP, and some of the small servers (chargen, quote). It didn't drive an ethernet, it did SLIP (I'm pretty sure it predated PPP).

      As I recall one of his proof of concepts was to replace the serial part on an ADM3A terminal, once done you could hook it up to a terminal server with SLIP, and when you turned on the terminal you got a TELNET> prompt. Too bad he didn't have enough RAM to let you switch between multiple telnet sessions.

      As I recall Hariss Semiconductor bought the implementation, and as far as I know never did anything with it.

    6. Re:Insaine! by mikael · · Score: 1

      Ubicom (a.k.a Scenix) has an evaluation kit for the SX52BD processor together with a Realtek ethernet NIC. A TCP/IP stack is provided, with assembly source.

      Ethernet SX Stack Evaluation Kit

      It's not that expensive ($200 i think), and a lot of fun to play with, since it has 20 I/O ports.

      Mikael

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  3. It's gonna be awile by cdrudge · · Score: 1

    I'm going to venture a guess and say it isn't going to be available commercially for about another 25 years....at least if they are soldering all the surface mount stuff by hand. 5000 caps is a lot of soldering, especially if what you are soldering is about a square millimeter in size.

    1. Re:It's gonna be awile by seanadams.com · · Score: 4, Informative

      We'll start shipping in about two weeks. I expect our first batch to sell out rather quickly (thanks, Slashdot!) and we'll start taking pre-orders as soon as that happens.

    2. Re:It's gonna be awile by brent_linux · · Score: 1

      you could make something similar, which streams over the internet to your stereo with MusicStorm . I mean it is a computer sitting there, but it does a lot of the same sort of stuff.

    3. Re:It's gonna be awile by mindstrm · · Score: 2

      Actually, it's entirely possible to do SMD soldering by hand, and at a decent rate (same or better as that of thru-hole stuff. All you need are the right tools.

      I was a bit shocked to see the primitive irons they were using... but other than that, this looks 100% legit. (as in, it reminds me of the production lab at my last job, where we definately did lots of SMD by hand)

      The pads on those capacitors, for instance, are already solder coated, and so are the pads on the PCB. You just place the component, and tap both pins with a hot iron, and it's done.. it's not as hard as you think.

  4. Reminds me of how core memory used to be made by dezwart · · Score: 1

    Hopefully, they will not go as blind as bats doing the first few production runs.

    What I'd really like to know is this:

    When is the wireless version coming out?

    1. Re:Reminds me of how core memory used to be made by cheezit · · Score: 1

      Having done this kind of work---garage runs of prototypes---here's what you get:
      1. back and neck strain, along with headaches, from bending over
      2. wrist and hand cramps from holding the damn iron so long
      3. low-grade respiratory problems from the solder fumes
      4. A HUGE rush when you get the first one working, you feel like Prometheus....

      --
      Premature optimization is the root of all evil
  5. What if? by tankrshr77 · · Score: 1

    With all these new "smart" devices, what happens if someone streams his music into his toaster-oven accidently?

    1. Re:What if? by dezwart · · Score: 1

      Musical Toast!

      Not a bad idea actually, hmmm, where is that toaster.

  6. Re:Please tell me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Simple stuff without many repeating letters goes through without problems now. The old filter used to catch that, but I won't complain.

  7. Re:Please tell me by Bilton · · Score: 0

    Ever since they "updated" the filter none of my old tricks work anymore. Please share your secret.

    Obviously, he's a JEW. What did you expect?

  8. The Rio Receiver by fuchikoma · · Score: 5, Informative

    Found here (http://www.riohome.com/products/receiver.htm), the Rio Receiver does basicaly the same thing, and is already available in stores.

    It also has the advantage of being able to stream over standard phone lines, for those of us who don't have cat5 strung out to the living room.

    1. Re:The Rio Receiver by EvlG · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Problem with the Rio is you have to run a special Win32 app to stream to the thing. its not as flexbile as I would wish.

      That and the display is impossible to read from across the room.

    2. Re:The Rio Receiver by Breakdown · · Score: 1

      I picked up one of these at the local Best Buy on clearance. Seems that no one really wanted to pay 300 bucks for a streaming mp3 stereo component. They are clearanced for about 150 bucks now and well worth every penny. The boys from the former Empeg group (Empeg mp3 car stereo) now work for SonicBlue/Rio and are planning on firmware upgrades to fix the little "quirks" of the box. Namely it only reads 7000 mp3s and only 250 mp3s from one artist. The true test was to watch how my non-techie fiance responded to it. She knew I had a ton of mp3s but didn't know how to find them all on my computer. She fell in love with the Rio receiver the first day.

    3. Re:The Rio Receiver by dschuetz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Problem with the Rio is you have to run a special Win32 app to stream to the thing. its not as flexbile as I would wish.

      Actually, that's not necessarily true. Jeff Mock (http://www.mock.com/receiver/) has hacked together a linux server for it. Basically, it's a bunch of mod_perl scripts for apache, along with a real simple perl server to answer the device's initial request.

      That, and it runs linux, too (sort of). Basically, it spits out a DHCP request for an IP address, sends a broadcast request to a particular port to ask for servers (which is answered by the little perl server), and from there it learns of the IP address and TFTP directory of the server. It then NFS mounts a directory from that server, and reboots with the image it pulls from that directory. So, to upgrade it, just change the files in the server's directory. Real cool. Once running, everything (all artist, track lookups, and audio fetching) happens over HTTP on the fly.

      They've even got a cross-compiler for it, so you can write some of your own programs, and a couple kernel hacks already. I'm waiting for someone to improve the UI a little -- it's good, but not quite all there. Maybe 80% perfect.

      I got mine for, like, $150, on E-Bay. Also branded specifically by Rio, though the front panel looks much weirder.

      There's also the AudioTron, which I looked at first, but that scans your net for SMB servers, then builds its own internal database. Lose power, lose the database, and you've got to re-scan all over again.

      That and the display is impossible to read from across the room.

      That I will give you. :(

      I definitely recommend the Rio Receiver, though. I'd love to see more people hacking it, and improving it. I'm really amazed it hasn't been a bigger hit around here so far...

      david.

    4. Re:The Rio Receiver by Spoing · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Since the Rio Receiver's OS can be updated, can Ogg Vorbis support be added? I'm very curious...

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    5. Re:The Rio Receiver by psamuels · · Score: 1

      Without knowing anything about them, I'm guessing probably not. Because they were probably engineered with the CPU power to decode MP3s. (Overengineering is a huge no-no for embedded.)

      I use vorbis format myself, out of principle, but decoding vorbis takes a couple orders of magnitude more CPU than decoding MP3.

      --
      "How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
    6. Re:The Rio Receiver by subsolar2 · · Score: 1
      Or you could use the Voyetra/Turtle Beatch Audiotron http://www.voyetra-turtle-beach.com/site/products/ audiotron/


      I've been thinking of getting this unit ... i belive that all it requires is SAMBA to be running under your favorite *nix variant to share the files & playlists.

    7. Re:The Rio Receiver by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'A couple of orders of magnitude'?

      Decoding MP3s takes about 2% of my PIII 500. So, you're saying that I'd need a dual 500 system just to decode Vorbis files... (an order of magnitude is 'times ten' -- a couple is 'times a hundred')

      What you probably meant was 'double', but even that isn't strictly true. What is true is that it takes a lot more space to store the Vorbis decoder -- everything's written with relatively space inefficient huge codebooks at the moment.

    8. Re:The Rio Receiver by ncc74656 · · Score: 2
      It also has the advantage of being able to stream over standard phone lines, for those of us who don't have cat5 strung out to the living room.
      ...and who on /. doesn't have Cat5 into the living room? That's one of the first things I put in when I moved in where I am now...needed a run from the cable modem to the server closet, which also went back out to a computer that was parked under the TV, serving as a DVD/MP3 player. I yanked the computer out from under the TV when I got my Apex DVD player, but the second run (two RJ45 plugs on each end of one cable, actually) will get put back into action when my TiVoNET arrives next week.
      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    9. Re:The Rio Receiver by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      If it's anything like some of these other MP3-playing embedded devices, forget it: they use special MP3 decoder chips instead of software. You'll have to wait until someone makes an Ogg-Vorbis decoder chip.

    10. Re:The Rio Receiver by n6mod · · Score: 1

      The Rio/Dell Receiver (same hardware, different plastic) uses a Cirrus Maverick (ARM7 core with lots of integrated peripherals) at (IIRC) 75MHz.

      So, it's not a dedicated MPEG chip like a lot of the players, and I'm pretty sure WMA support is/was on the roadmap. Vorbis is "just another codec", though there's no FPU, so you'd have to do an integer-only decoder. (That's the stumbling block for the SA1100-based empeg/Rio car, as well.)

      If you folks really want Vorbis everywhere, it's going to take a good integer implementation of the decoder.

      --
      You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.
    11. Re:The Rio Receiver by he-sk · · Score: 1
      If you folks really want Vorbis everywhere, it's going to take a good integer implementation of the decoder.


      I still doubt, that there will be Vorbis support in any consumer product.


      See, they're trying to move the consumer to formats where DRM can be enforced, like WMA. The support for MP3 is only a relict, because of the huge user base that has MP3s. They don't want to lose this market AND they want to use this market to introduce other formats.


      Now if Vorbis had such a huge user base as MP3, it might be supported. But I don't think it's going to happen. Ever.

      --
      Free Manning, jail Obama.
    12. Re:The Rio Receiver by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2

      You don't actually need Cat5 wiring in your home. You can use Cat3. Hope that helps!

    13. Re:The Rio Receiver by Spoing · · Score: 2
      I still doubt, that there will be Vorbis support in any consumer product.

      Not true. The main hold up is that a v.1x reference encoder/decoder hasn't been released yet. While the file format is stable, and has been forward/backward compatable for some time, some final features are still being added. For commercial use, adding the support in too early would cause customers to want to upgrade...too much of a hassle for most companies when v.1.0 is so much more marketable.

      See the Ogg Vorbis FAQ for more details on pending hardware support for Ogg Vorbis. On the Rio device front, there are hints at Ogg support in the near future (nothing formal yet ^ ).

      Another reason why Ogg Vorbis support is likely is that MP3 and MP3Pro licencing costs are fairly high. For devices where MP3 support isn't even used -- say small digital players used by joggers -- Ogg is quite interesting.

      ^ - Rio Volt firmware and Ogg Vorbis

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    14. Re:The Rio Receiver by he-sk · · Score: 1

      I am still doubtful about ogg vorbis support in any consumer product, but I'd be glad to be proven wrong. The links you give are promising though.

      --
      Free Manning, jail Obama.
  9. oh man by psychalgia · · Score: 5, Funny

    wtf, i cant pass calculus, but these bastards can do this soldering while drinking beer? I'm going to be workign at McDonald's the rest of my frickin' life...

    --

    ________________________________________________

  10. Re:Everybody loves COCK by Regolith · · Score: 1

    Isn't it nice to see that someone has figured out how to beat the ASCII art filter. *Groan*

    --

    Bow before my sig, for it is good.
  11. slashdotted by cvore · · Score: 1

    cool. The site is ./ed after 17 comments.. Thats very, very good.. :)

    1. Re:slashdotted by well_jung · · Score: 1

      On a saturday, no less.

      --
      Carl G. Jung
      --
      "With one breath, with one flow, You will know Synchronicity" -La Policia
  12. Re:Everybody loves COCK by Bilton · · Score: 0

    *Groan*

    Got you off too, huh?

  13. Audiotron by cs668 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Turtle Beach has the Audiotron which does the same thimg works great and can be found at some best buys for $149. I love mine.

    1. Re:Audiotron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The web site seems to imply that this machine might work with Samba. Anyone tried it yet?

    2. Re:Audiotron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Works here without a hitch. The audiotron's cheaper and works better than that silly Rio device.

    3. Re:Audiotron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought audiotron costed $299. The cheapest place I found it was at outpost.com for $289

    4. Re:Audiotron by Ob+the+Rat · · Score: 1

      Mine's been working great for several months now, and there isn't a Microsoft box in the house. Turtle Beach has been wonderfully responsive to requests for new features. If you get one, be sure to keep up with the newsgroup so that you can do beta testing of updates.

    5. Re:Audiotron by cheesebot · · Score: 1

      yes, and what's really great is what they've been doing with their firmware upgrades such as streaming radio and browser control which, since they are in "beta", are all so far undocumented features.

    6. Re:Audiotron by subsolar2 · · Score: 1
      TheNerds.net currently have them for $271 ... a bit more than I want to spend, waiting for the $200 mark to be hit.

    7. Re:Audiotron by sdo1 · · Score: 1
      and there isn't a Microsoft box in the house

      I hate to dissapoint you, but that may have been true before you got the AudioTron. It runs Windows CE.

      -S

      --
      --- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
  14. first run by hand by neilsly · · Score: 1

    I would highly doubt that they'll do all of the production runs by hand. It would literally take years.

    -neil

  15. Difference?? by tcc · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hmm the site is already slashdotted with only 20 comments here ahaha, stream slashdot hits! :)

    from Google cache:

    If you already have an Ethernet LAN and a machine to use as the server, setting up the SliMP3 will take you just a few minutes, and all you will need is this quick start guide - each step is boldfaced, followed by a brief explanation. If this is your first time setting up Ethernet and IP addresses, then you may wish to visit the additional documentation links, on the left.
    Setting up the player

    Connect the Ethernet port to your hub using a standard RJ45 patch cord

    Connect the player your Ethernet hub or switch using a standard CAT3 or CAT5 patch cord. If you are connecting it directly to the Ethernet card in your server machine, use a crossover cable.

    Connect the players RCA outputs to the inputs on your receiver

    The player has a pair of standard, line level, RCA audio output jacks - connect these to the inputs on your amplifier, receiver, or powered speakers.

    Configure the IR remote: press "S, DVD, 0, 0, 7, ENT"

    A Sony RM-V301 universal remote is supplied with the SliMP3. In addition to controlling the SliMP3, this remote may be used to operate the volume controls on your receiver, or any other equipment you may have.

    The SliMP3 uses the IR codes for a JVC brand DVD player - we chose to use the JVC codes because we wanted to use an off-the-shelf universal remote, and so we chose a brand of DVD player that was standard enough to be supported by the remote, but not so common that it would be likely to conflict with your existing stereo equipment.

    See the instruction manual that comes with the remote for more information on its additional features.

    Connect the power supply

    The SliMP3 comes with a 5V, 1000ma regulated power supply. Please be careful to use ONLY this power supply - connecting a different power supply may damage the player, and such damage is not covered by warranty.

    The player is intended you be left plugged in at all times. When not in use, it enters a "standby" mode, powering down the display and drawing only a few milliamps.

    Enter the IP address information

    When the player is first powered up, it asks you if you want to configure it. Pressing "OK" will take you through a series of four screens - server's IP address, player's IP address, subnet mask, and gateway address. To enter the IP addresses, use the UP/DOWN buttons to edit each digit, and LEFT/RIGHT to go to the next digit, then press OK to complete each entry. Zero out the beginning of each number to make it three digits - eg "10.5.35.164" would be entered as "010.005.035.164"

    Testing your LAN setup

    ping the player from your server

    On your server, type:

    ping your.players.ip.address

    If your IP addresses are set up correctly, the player will respond to the pings, and display a message indicating where it received the ping from.

    Installing the server

    Download and extract the tarball

    Download the latest version of the server here. To extract the tarball, type:

    tar xvfz slimp3_server.tgz
    cd slimp3_server

    Run the server

    You need to tell the server where your mp3files are stored. You can specify this on the command line as:

    ./server.pl /path-to-your-mp3-files &

    Or, you can leave the path blank, and the server will look for your mp3 files in a directory called "mp3files", in the same directory as the server:

    ./server.pl &

    The '&' tells it to run in the background, so that the server continues running after you log out.

    That's it!

    Just use the cursor keys to browse around, and enjoy your music collection

    --
    --- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
    1. Re:Difference?? by Night0wl · · Score: 1

      Uh. No it's not. I'm loading it now, with images...
      I'm to lazy to mirror it though. ;p hehe

      --
      Computational Madness in a round package.
    2. Re:Difference?? by Mr.+Ayo · · Score: 1

      The player is intended you be left plugged in at all times.

      Yea, just a few more beers before that happens.

  16. Re:Everybody loves COCK by sydb · · Score: 1

    Also, you are meant to check your links.

    None of your goddamn links work!

    --
    Yours Sincerely, Michael.
  17. No shoutcast support tho... by MasterOfDisaster · · Score: 1

    It seems this only alows you to stream from your computer with their software, and not from Shoutcast-style streaming servers. if it could do that...I'd buy/make one. you dont know how much i hate it when my streams stop because my computer froze/kernel paniced/bsod'ed/caught fire.
    too bad the site seems to have been /.'ed now...

    --
    The opinions in this post are ficticious. Any similarity to actual opinions, real or imagined, is purely coincidental.
    1. Re:No shoutcast support tho... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy to fix. Just install FreeBSD.

  18. Ethernet stereos? by nougatmachine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you already have ethernet cable strung through your house, wouldn't it just make more sense to connect your computer to the network, and then just listen to the mp3 files by connecting a stereo to that computer? Works fine for me, and it only costs $0.

    1. Re:Ethernet stereos? by ksheff · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Given the environment inside your computer, you may get some interference included in your audio signal. Stereo-Link manufactures a USB device that will allow the computer generated audio to be piped into a stereo w/o any of the included noise picked up from a sound card. It is available from this site too for $159. I would like to see how the ethernet device stacks up against this product.

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    2. Re:Ethernet stereos? by LoudMusic · · Score: 1

      I live with my parents. I have run a 10/100mbit Cat5e network switched by a Linksys 8 port Cable router that routes my cable modem connection. All this is in the laundry room with the file/web/ftp/mail server. I ran two network connections to the Den, where my Yamaha receiver is. I don't spend all my time on my computer and this little device would allow me to play my music in the Den without having to run audio cable from my computer room up stairs down to the receiver. I could also control the music in the Den without having to build a playlist upstairs before I went down.

      Man, the more I think about it, the better this thing sounds (:

      ~LoudMusic

      --
      No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
    3. Re:Ethernet stereos? by K8Fan · · Score: 2
      If you already have ethernet cable strung through your house, wouldn't it just make more sense to connect your computer to the network, and then just listen to the mp3 files by connecting a stereo to that computer?

      Because not all of us have Panasonic Toughbooks and that's pretty much the only sort of computer I'd want in the kitchen or the crapper. I want these sort of little gadgets all over the house in all sorts of places where it makes no sense to try to place a laptop or monitor.

      As Joe Bob Briggs said: I'm surprised I have to explain these things!

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    4. Re:Ethernet stereos? by brent_linux · · Score: 1

      If you wanted to leave a machine there all the time then I suggest MusicStorm. I have an old desktop style compaq slid in between my reciever and tape deck, which I can send mp3s to, view the queue and ssh into if need be. Everyone running linux can send whatever they want to it to play. I don't have a Windows way to send mp3s to it yet, but if anyone is interested in making one feel free to contact me.

    5. Re:Ethernet stereos? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't believe this post was moded up.

      stereo-link.com: "We use USB to digitally transfer the music out of the computer, bypassing the sound card altogether."

      Please tell me how an Ethernet connected embedded MP3 decoder will be adulterated by the freakin sound card!?

    6. Re:Ethernet stereos? by dasunt · · Score: 2


      First, I like to admit I know nothing about transmition of sound. Nada. Zip. Nothing.


      However, I do think. I also look at things. Combined, this leads to some interesting conclusions.


      My stereo mini-plugs extension cable (20', Radio Shack special) that connect my VCR to my computer are presumably two signal wires (left and right stereo channel) encased in a ground. The old phono jack cords and stereo mini-jack to Y-phono jack adapter also uses the shield cable. AHA! So shielding is inportant, you think. Even my cheap $10 computer speakers have shielded cords. But not so fast. My connection between my stereo and my speakers are unshielded cable, ya know, the cheap cable with two wires side-by-side that you can find at Walmart. Now I've run this sort of cable 50' without a problem, and I've known of people with farther runs. Now the only difference between the speaker connection and the other connections is that the speaker connection only carries one channel (not 2) and is amplified. So maybe the amplified signal is strong enough to resist interference but the unamplified is not. However, the amplified cable is bundled in a rats-nest behind the stereo, and the amplified signals in each cable seem not to be interfering with each other.


      So, I can only conclude that interference may or may not be a problem. However, if I want to run a Cat5 cable and, say, transmit unamplified stereo signals to the radio, I can deduct several things. Ring voltage in telephone lines seem to be higher then the sound signal voltage, so the data connections that can happily coexist with voice lines without getting interference should coexist with sound. Ethernet is also twisted to limit cross-talk in the wire. Probably not as good as shielded cables, but good ne'er-the-less. So, could I take an old ethernet line I had laying around and transmit the stereo signal on two wires (one for left and one for right channel) and then ground the paired wire without degrading the signal quality? I haven't tried it, but for a reasonable distance, I would guess yes. The wires are not think enough to carry the higher strength speaker out signal, but for just base audio in, I don't see a problem.


      Just my $.02

    7. Re:Ethernet stereos? by rcw-home · · Score: 1
      the only difference between the speaker connection and the other connections is that the speaker connection only carries one channel (not 2) and is amplified.


      That, and the ground on an unamplified cable is typically tied to case ground (in other words, the signal is "unbalanced" - like coax). Amplified speaker outs are usually balanced (equal but opposite + and - signals on both lines at any given time).


      Ring voltage in telephone lines seem to be higher then the sound signal voltage, so the data connections that can happily coexist with voice lines without getting interference should coexist with sound.


      Ring voltages are very low frequency AC (17 to 20hz) which no phone handset will reproduce. Although Ethernet is baseband (uses frequencies from 0-200mhz for 100mbit) very few signals actually get encoded into anything resembling 20hz. So it's difficult for a ringing phone to flip a bit.


      Because audio is an analog signal, any interference will degrade the signal. It's just a matter of whether you can notice it or not. The original poster was more concerned about other devices inside a normal PC that tended to transmit at 0-20khz (the windings on a hard drive's seek arm are a biggie).


      Ethernet's twisting works because it's a balanced signal - if the signal from an interfering line run in parallel to yours increases the level on the + line, the twists ensure that it will decrease the signal on the - line as well. The receiving card takes the difference which is unchanged.


      cat5 can easily be used for a balanced audio signal (your phone line usually runs through a mile or five of unshielded cat1 next to hundreds of other cat1 cables). Do not ground the lines (they're not shielded). Put +/- outs for a channel on the same pair (they're color coded, for example, orange and orange-white is a pair). Because cat5 is typically 24AWG, I wouldn't run more than a few watts over it.


      If you need to run a line-level signal over balanced pair, get a pair of baluns (they're short for balanced to unbalanced) and put one at each end.

    8. Re:Ethernet stereos? by ksheff · · Score: 2

      The reason for having the Ethernet mp3 decoder is the same for having the USB device like Stereo-link: let your higher quality stereo system play the music and let the D-A conversion be done in an environment where it won't pick up as much noise as your sound card does inside your computer.

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
  19. Ok, now just add toslink output... by kjr71 · · Score: 1

    Someone please add an optical digital output to this thing... I don't want any analog signals entering my amplifier. No ground loops or any of that shit with fiber either.

    1. Re:Ok, now just add toslink output... by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 2

      I'll second that. I have a lot of time, money, and effort invested in DACs, and I don't let other people's crappy DACs anywhere near my audio gear. This would be a great little device with coax or optical digital output, and it shouldn't be overly hard to hack in. There must be a serial digital input on that Crystal SAC somewhere.

    2. Re:Ok, now just add toslink output... by The+Panther! · · Score: 1

      Don't be silly. You're also talking about an MP3 player, not a cd player. It has inherently inferior audio quality.

      Adding optical out is a waste of money for 90% of the people out there who don't have optical in, and a waste for the remaining 10% who do because you wouldn't hear any difference anyway. Beating your chest about your audio gear aside, it's silly to think optical out off an MP3 box is worthwhile.

      --
      Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
    3. Re:Ok, now just add toslink output... by Spruitje · · Score: 1


      Someone please add an optical digital output to this thing... I don't want any analog signals entering my amplifier.


      Optical sucsk.
      Coaxial gives a lot better audioquality.
      But the only problem is, that most mpeg chips also contains the DAC's to convert digital to audio.
      So no digital output.

    4. Re:Ok, now just add toslink output... by pjrc · · Score: 2

      The data says they're using a CS4334, which is 4-wire I2S input. There are chips from Cirrus that convert I2S into SPDIF.

      --
      PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
  20. But where is the Ogg Ethernet player? by burtonator · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sorry... but with the patent restrictions on MP3 I will skip it. Not unless they support Ogg.

    Kevin

    1. Re:But where is the Ogg Ethernet player? by seanadams.com · · Score: 5, Informative

      It would have supported OGG, had there been a low-cost chip for Ogg decoding (like the STA013 and MAS3507D for MP3).

    2. Re:But where is the Ogg Ethernet player? by Spoing · · Score: 3, Informative

      Exactly. When v.1.0 ogg vorbis hits, I'm going to run my whole CD collection through it. Some stereo component that can handle Ogg and it's updates would be sweet.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    3. Re:But where is the Ogg Ethernet player? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you and the 5 other people that use OGG.

    4. Re:But where is the Ogg Ethernet player? by 2b · · Score: 1

      No problem. It looks as if your server code uses very little CPU, so perhaps you can convert ogg->mp3 on the server-side as you're streaming the data over the network. It will use more CPU, but probably not a lot. Having a PC serve the data to a simple device gives you a lot of flexibility.

      As a side note, at least one of the pocket "MP3 players" (Lyra) doesn't support MP3 in the device per se, rather they convert from MP3 to their proprietary soundfile format while copying the files.

  21. Slashdotted! by seanadams.com · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So I'm sitting here looking at my MRTG graphs and saying WTF - my server's trying to push out 2.5MBps onto my T1. Oops.

    Thanks everyone for you interest in the SliMP3. Yes, we *are* building these by hand, at least the first 100, and we plan to ship in about two weeks. No we're not planning to build our next batch this way.

    I'll do my best to answer everyone's questions. Again, thanks for the traffic, and sorry my server can't keep up!

    Sean Adams
    Slim Devices, Inc.

    1. Re:Slashdotted! by clark625 · · Score: 2

      Hey--since I can't seem to get to your site, just how much do these bad boys run for consumers? The Rio Receiver runs about $300, although it would clash with my black components, and that's just uncool in my rack. ;)


      --
      Long, cute, or funny Sigs are just another form of over compensation, used by geeks, nerdz, etc.
    2. Re:Slashdotted! by seanadams.com · · Score: 3, Informative

      Our first 100 hand-made units are going to sell for $275.

    3. Re:Slashdotted! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I WOULD NOT buy anything that is soldered with commerical acid flux. This stuff is bad for long term reliability and I would not used it on anything other than copper water pipe.

      Use the real stuff that comes in a solution if you really need to.

    4. Re:Slashdotted! by seanadams.com · · Score: 1

      It's rosin flux.

    5. Re:Slashdotted! by dynweb · · Score: 1

      What I would really like to know is how you managed to monitor your PG&E usage. If you could let us know, the rest of us in the Bay Area would love to be able to monitor our power usage, too.

    6. Re:Slashdotted! by krazyninja · · Score: 1

      Good job from these guys! I have the following questions though..
      What happens if and when the server crashes? Does the unit remember its past configuration? Or does it make us to all of it again? Also, I think there could be security issues in having an "open" device connecting to the server without any authentication...

      --
      "Do something man. Right now."
    7. Re:Slashdotted! by seanadams.com · · Score: 1

      PG&E meter reader: See here - photos & schematics

  22. Turtle Beach Audiotron by gosquad · · Score: 1

    Turtle beach makes (or just distributes?) a similar device. More details are available at TG. This one officially supports windows only, but linux support is available (through samba, if I remember correctly). Uses ethernet or regular phone lines..

    One of these with an 802.11 wireless ethernet card would be perfect...

    1. Re:Turtle Beach Audiotron by cheesebot · · Score: 1

      they don't support linux but i've spoken with their developers and testers and i found out they're actually running 70 audiotrons off of a celeron 400 running linux with two ethernet cards. they don't want to "support" linux because of all the possible varieties of .conf files to deal with. i guess they figure anyone running linux should be able to figure it out themselves.

      it works with samba BTW.

  23. BSOD by psychalgia · · Score: 1
    Imagine enjoying your MP3 collection on those big speakers in your living room, away from the distractions of fans, hard drives, and the occasional blue screen of death!

    um, if i get the BSOD, how the h am i supposed to be listening to MP3s, i hate poorly thought out marketing propaganda :P

    --

    ________________________________________________

    1. Re:BSOD by LoudMusic · · Score: 1

      Because the server currently runs on a Unix operating system, and the audio is pumped strait into an amplifier/receiver.

      Maybe you should of thought out your post.

      ~LoudMusic

      --
      No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
  24. More similar devices... by jgrumbles · · Score: 2, Informative

    The idea isn't very new or radical as it use to be. If you go here, then you can see some stuff that is already capable of doing what was mentioned in the article.

    1. Re:More similar devices... by jgrumbles · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the fact that I like my Klipsch ProMedia System for my computer a whole lot, I am not sure why I would want this.

    2. Re:More similar devices... by The+Panther! · · Score: 1

      If you actually read the product's specs, you'd know that's not the case.

      None of those products listed on that web site you mentioned do any sort of streaming. The one that does have ethernet appears to use it for data acquisition, not real time streaming. Those limitations make them nothing more than limited local caches of your music collection. Lame.

      Heck, my 1.5 year old Apex dvd player can play mp3 discs, but it's totally inconvenient. MP3 cds are only good for backups and car mp3 players.

      --
      Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
    3. Re:More similar devices... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, ive also found the best solution to hooking up my computer to a nice stereo is to make the computer the nice stereo.

      klipsch promedia 4.1's rock hardcore style for this.
      -j

  25. Don't worry... by kypper · · Score: 4, Funny
    Drink beer and you too can solder.


    Just don't do it on your hand; drops of molten silver do NOT look cool, no matter what your drunken buddies say.

    1. Re:Don't worry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you dont believe it then ask johnny tremain

  26. Review of unit on mp3newswire by Rufus211 · · Score: 1

    www.mp3newswire.net has a short review of the unit at http://www.mp3newswire.net/stories/2001/slimp3.htm l
    Basicly it's just a summary of the info on the official pages, but it's good since the official page is ./'d (but still accessable, just VERY slowly).

  27. Lets Compare. by jarodss · · Score: 0, Redundant

    System Requirements

    Rio Receiver

    Windows 98, Windows 98SE, 2000, Millennium

    Audiotron

    Windows 98 / Millennium / NT 4.0 WorkStation / Windows 2000 Professional

    SliMP3

    Linux, Windows or MacOS.

  28. Buy a $2 cable from Radio Shack by NineNine · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's what I do. I've been listening to MP3's through my stereo for years. No need to buy anything fancy.

    1. Re:Buy a $2 cable from Radio Shack by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Hahaha... A $2 cable at Radio Shack? Yeah right... more like $8-10! That place is so overpriced for simple stuff like that. Too bad it's frequently the only local place to find such supplies.

    2. Re:Buy a $2 cable from Radio Shack by The+Panther! · · Score: 1

      Man, you guys must have small places. I have to have a 120ft cable strung through four rooms to get to my stereo from my computer. :-(

      --
      Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
  29. Cool! by geoffeg · · Score: 1

    While this is cool, I'd love it if it did wavelan. Heck, I'd love a wavelan mp3 player. Something I can carry around the house or office and stream mp3's off an NFS directory, web site or samba share. I know, I could go get an iPaq but it's just a little too much.

    Any ideas?
    Geoffeg

    1. Re:Cool! by don.g · · Score: 1

      NFS? No, what you want is something that will work through HTTP, and has a big buffer and the ability to restart HTTP transfers - then you can just roam around wherever there happen to be wireless networks with firewalls that let you get out through port 80... :)

      --
      Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
  30. bah, do it wireless by Kevinv · · Score: 1

    Picked up a set of these from thinkgeek. They stream analog from a 1/8" stereo jack to RCA jacks. Works fine. At $69 it's hard to beat.

    Since I have wireless ethernet too, I can control the output on the server from my laptop anywhere in the house (or outside).

  31. so what? by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 3, Informative

    Dell and Gateway have both sold ethernet-enabled MP3 players for about a year now. They're component-based, designed to plug right into your stereo.

    Search around on their sites for them.

    - A.P.

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
  32. Ummm, headphone jack? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait, is my laptop the only machine in the world with a headphone jack? I bought a $5 cable from radio shack (has two plugs, one for audio, the other for s-video) to connect to my stereo/tv.

    And since this MP3 player still needs your computer to be on to serve the MP3's, what is the advantage? Why would I want this?

    1. Re:Ummm, headphone jack? by mlafranc · · Score: 1

      A headphone jack would not be too to rig up with the right gear from the rat-shack though it would'nt have volume control.

      I think the general premise is that this is for use with a stereo, and not a portable device.

      Also, you could easily serve mp3s from that old 486, a machine which could'nt play 44kHz/16 in mono without stuttering. If you hapen to run this with a P3, it should produce performace loss as near to nothing as makes no odds.

  33. here's Dell's: by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 2

    let's hope slashdot doesn't cut off this URL...

    If you've got a Samba server in your house (and who doesn'?) this thing looks like a really kickass box.

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
    1. Re:here's Dell's: by Fishstick · · Score: 1
      >If you've got a Samba server in your house

      Wonder then what this little disclaimer is about?

      Please note: The Dell Digital Audio Receiver will only work with Windows 98SE, Windows 2000, and Windows ME***

      This thing just mounts smb fileshares, no? Why wouldn't it work with NT, 95, 98 or anything else that uses smb? (the link for 'learn more' on the dell site is dead, btw).

      --

      There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
      Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.

    2. Re:here's Dell's: by jazzyfox · · Score: 1

      That's the same box as the Rio Reciever. They have a special server software that feeds it music, it's not just pulled from shares. Windows only out of the box, but there's another comment on this article pointing to sources for an Apache/Perl based solution for feeding music to it.

  34. Buy the same cable for $1.25 at Walmart by Legion303 · · Score: 1
    I've been listening to MP3s, games, etc. Through my stereo for years as well. But hey, gadgets are spiffy.

    -Legion

  35. SMD kit? by Randy+Rathbun · · Score: 2

    Any plans on doing this as a kit? (yes, I know - it is surface mount blah blah blah, but some of us like soldering this stuff!)

    1. Re:SMD kit? by seanadams.com · · Score: 2, Informative

      I considered selling them as kits. The main problems for me would be
      shipping and packaging all the individual components, and providing
      documentation and support. For the customer, the problem would be the need
      for a number of tools (microcontroller programmer, JTAG programmer,
      oscilloscope, in-circuit emulator for testing, rework station, etc). The other issue is
      that with some of the surface mount components, you only get one shot at
      installing it correctly. If you make a mistake, the whole board might be
      hosed! So I don't think it would be feasible to sell bare boards.

      I probably will sell just assembled boards, without the display, power
      supply, and remote, for people who want to build their own case or use a
      different kind of display (eg if you were doing a car installation or
      something exotic...)

    2. Re:SMD kit? by rikkards · · Score: 1
      for people who want to build their own case or use a
      different kind of display (eg if you were doing a car installation or
      something exotic...)


      Yessss.. I can see it now Cat5 in my car or wait! Even better wireless!!!

    3. Re:SMD kit? by pjrc · · Score: 2
      I can say from experience that providing mp3 player kits can turn into some frustrating tech support. Most of the people we've sold kits to never emailed or called for support. I suppose no news is good news and they got them to work. But for those who did have trouble, it was rare that I could figure out what was wrong. That's frustrating. When the board was assembled and tested before shipping, there's a much smaller set of things that tend to go wrong.


      When we ran out of kits, we didn't make any more. It takes a similar amount of time to sort the parts into nicely labeled bags as it does to stuff parts into a bare board. We've had several people who _really_ want kits to assemble, so we're going to do one more round of kits.


      Also, our little player was designed to be mostly easy-to-solder through hole components. The MP3 decoder and DAC are surface mount, but they're the 1.27 mm low density pitch that's reasonable to solder by hand. I've played with the Cirrus 8900 ethernet chip a bit, and it is a 0.5 mm pitch high density surface mount part. Very few people can solder this by hand, and I am in that group, despite 15 years of occasional soldering. You certainly wouldn't want a kit with such fine pitch surface mount parts. Saddly, there don't seem to be any ethernet controller chips (that aren't obsolete) in lower density packages.


      I think Sean's going to sell some pretty cool players. I know I've had a number of people ask me for ethernet streaming added to my little project... but that just isn't very feasible. The VFD also looks damn nice.


      I noticed the were some links to blank pages that may someday be open-source firmware? Is this just wishful thinking?

      --
      PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
  36. Other Ethernet Based MP3 players by Rambo · · Score: 2

    One that has been tested and works is the MP3Elf, based on the cool Java-based TINI board from Dallas Semi. Another TINI-based MP3 player is here,
    although it's still in the planning stages. The nifty thing about the MP3Elf is that it's open source _and_ hardware so you can build your own. They've sold some bare boards so you can assemble your own, although I'm not sure what they're planning for the future.

    1. Re:Other Ethernet Based MP3 players by sde1000 · · Score: 2
      Another TINI-based MP3 player is here [greenend.org.uk], although it's still in the planning stages.
      I'm unlikely to have enough time to finish this until at least June 2002. Anyone else is welcome to finish the design off - it just needs the PCB layout to be finished. (Most of the data lines are routed already, it just needs power connecting and decoupling capacitors adding.)
  37. What ground loop ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your MP3 is transformer isolated, where is the ground loop ? Remember 10 based T is also transformer isolated.

    If you can get a ground loop in this configuration, then you are doing something wrong.

  38. MP3s keep growing, but they don't. by bsquizzato · · Score: 1

    Why is it that all these companies are now making advances in MP3 technology while the music itself is being destroyed? Let's face it, how many people use MP3s for legal purposes (like listening to their own band). Even cell phones have MP3 players now, but what's the use? If the crackdown on pirated MP3s continues, these companies will lose their money to consumers no longer interested in free music.

    scars are souveniers you never lose.

    1. Re:MP3s keep growing, but they don't. by mastorrent · · Score: 1

      crackdown on pirated MP3s?? HAH. yeah, that'll happen. "mp3" has quickly become a standard, and rightly so....variable quality, small filesize, whats not to like? the "crackdown on pirated MP3s" that you speak of wont happen, as far as i can see. just like us humans figured out a way to get around DVD encryption and so many other attempts to stop piracy, we will continue to use MP3s and MP3 devices, regardless of what the record companies and their lawyers do.

      additionally, its not like MP3 collections will disappear...the record companies cant possibly hunt down everyone with the .mp3 file extension on their computer, so MP3s will always be out there as a buzzword and a market.

      --
      http://ryan.buterbaugh.org/
    2. Re:MP3s keep growing, but they don't. by krazyninja · · Score: 1

      MP3 wont get outdated anytime soon. The crackdown on illegal MP3's are only to turn those swappers around to legal "pay-and-use" mode, and not to eliminate MP3 itself. The investment of the consumer electronics market in MP3 is too much to ignore, and suddenly move over to another format.
      Vorbis is an alternative, but not everybody can stand the lawsuits which are certain to fall upon them when they start using vorbis...

      --
      "Do something man. Right now."
  39. Too Neat for a Real Workshop - Photos by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 2

    That's a nice workshop, but I don't think they do much prototyping there - it looks great for small assembly runs.

    Wanna see what a real radar prototyping and development workshop looks like? Check this out.

    That looks insanely hard to solder. Wow. I'd not believe it, but look at all those chips. A good fake if it is fake.

    Without a hot air rework station, it's pretty hard to do SMT by hand... it's possible, though. I did several video buffer circuits by hand, then I contracted out the rest because it was cheaper than my time.

    I once knew a guy who could solder a surface-mount 486 into place with an ordinary soldering iron. It was terrifying to behold.

    --
    Fire and Meat. Yummy.
    1. Re:Too Neat for a Real Workshop - Photos by starman97 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmmm. I see no static control at all, no wrist straps, no static mats, no ionizers, I hope the air conditioning is off when they build boards...

      Thus the term 'sweatshop' Although the ionic contamination of the solder pads from sweat and skin oils wont help either...

      Good luck to them...

      --
      Starman97@Gmail.com (bring it on spammers)
    2. Re:Too Neat for a Real Workshop - Photos by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 2

      Hmmm. I see no static control at all, no wrist straps, no static mats, no ionizers, I hope the air conditioning is off when they build boards...

      Yeah. It's like speaking to the head tech at a sucky little computer store somewhere. "Nah, you don't really need to worry about that." Course, he can't figure out why most of his systems come back with intermittant crashes and similar silly problems.

      I didn't notice that right away, actually. Most of my design and development has always been with analog parts, and there's little CMOS there. :)

      Thus the term 'sweatshop' Although the ionic contamination of the solder pads from sweat and skin oils wont help either...

      I wonder what the yield-rate on hand-soldered SMT ICs is, in a production environment. Even with an artist at work, I can't imagine it being all that high.

      --
      Fire and Meat. Yummy.
  40. This is nothing new... by acoustix · · Score: 1

    Gateway has had a product like this availible for quite some time now. It has an ethernet port to connect to the server, a display, and connectors for the home audio system.

    Why did this story make it? Was it a slow news day?

    --
    "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
  41. 802.11 streaming by brocktune · · Score: 1

    I use my laptop with 802.11 wireless to play MP3s. I hit a web page on a server on my office, which plays MP3s through the server's soundcard. I have RCA jacks running in the crawlspace under my house from the server soundcard to an input on my receiver. The web page can also serve up the MP3s over http if I want to listen through headphones on the laptop itself.

    I use MSDE to store the album info and playlists. I am looking at moving the database to MySQL.

    I originally started this project using LiRC, but then I realized how much cooler a web interface would be.

    I used to open the http port through the firewall, but yahoos were hitting my page and cranking up my stereo while I was at work, and freaking out my dog.

    1. Re:802.11 streaming by seanw · · Score: 2

      ok, so I read through your post and thought is was kinda interesting.

      then I got to the last paragraph, about people hacking the server, and I just had to stop in wonder and think: it's a mighty strange world where "yahoos" can remotely freak out your dog via http. strange, man.

      sean

  42. RIAA Proposes Ethernet Packet Tax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The RIAA today announced an initiative
    to have a Federal tax put upon streaming
    MP3 ethernet packets. "We're concerned
    about the exploitive use of stereo equipment."

  43. Re: Look what I found, uncle malda. by Homewrecker · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    ..actually *didn't* come from Andover at all

    Oh, come on. If this isn't the stupidest conspiracy theory to float around here, I don't know what is. VA Linux isn't smart enough to pull that off. Secondly, why?

    --

    --- Linux R00lz!

  44. Re: Look what I found, uncle malda. by Denial+of+Service · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Where's the proof from a reputable source? Since when is Slashdot worth enough for VA to risk its entire future? If this isn't a stupid troll, Rob got screwed in a big way.

    --

    ---
    Slashdot: News For Zealots. Stuff That's Hypocritical.
  45. FM Transmitters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was contemptlating builing a similar thing, but I build a FM transmitter instead and hooked it upto my Linux box and used Tunez for the jukebox software. Obviously I can listen on any FM tuner. I bought a little Sony FM tuner a couple of weeks ago, which is tiny and sounds great. As for song selection, I've been using my iPaq + Sleeve + 802.11b card. I can stream audio to the 802.11b to the iPaq but it's overkill.

  46. already done by sehryan · · Score: 1

    yeah, i already play my mp3's through my stereo. i plug the aux out of my sound card into the aux in of my stereo. and there is 0 latency! and i only had to spend $2 or so at Radio Shack to get a headphone-jack-to-rca-jack converter.

    --
    The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
    1. Re:already done by kbeast · · Score: 1

      i agree.. maybe i'm not understanding the device correctly, but, why would you want to stream music to your stereo system constantly..
      won't that kill your network in your home? I would think it'd chug up a ton of bandwidth on my little 8 port hub..

      and whats the audio-out specs on the device? i believe my soundcard is 20hz-20khz...that rio's specs is like 34hz-20khz or something like that..

      I dunno, i think I'd rather run rca jacks from my pc to stereo..being that i'd have to leave my computer on in order to stream to another $300 box and run same type of wires there. i could see running cat-5, if it was going to check cddb for my cd player or something.

      my onscreen pioneer cdplayer is missing cdtext, along with cddb via cat-5 :)

      .kb

      --
      Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right-- But They Make Me Feel A Whole Lot Better
    2. Re:already done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it would take up about 25kilobytes of bandwidth on your network. (that's approx 250kilobits.) that'd be about 4% of a typical cheapo hub that does like 600kilobytes/sec. (10bt)

  47. Re: Look what I found, uncle malda. by Homewrecker · · Score: 1
    I have no idea where the original went, but it's not the first time a comment has gone missing lately. Long story short: it looks like Andover knew they were going to be acquired by VA when /. was purchased. Rob turned down offers from VA and Andover was used to get /. under the VA umbrella one way or another....there was a link in the original comment (not mine) that appears to support the whole thing (I thought it was Newstrolls, but I can't find anything relevant there, so who knows). If any of this is true, it's a serious bitch move by VA.

    Now watch this post vanish....

    --

    --- Linux R00lz!

  48. How about an 802.11b version? by tswinzig · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd love to get one of these, but I have no way (or desire) to string ethernet from my room to the living room. How about a version that accepts an 802.11b PC card? Pretty please?

    --

    "And like that ... he's gone."
    1. Re:How about an 802.11b version? by warfare · · Score: 1

      Why not hooking this thing up to a Wireless-to-Ethernet-converter? Of course you would need an AP for this, but hey ;)

      --
      -- If windows is the solution, can we please have the problem back?
    2. Re:How about an 802.11b version? by tswinzig · · Score: 2

      Awesome! I've been looking for something just like this for my TiVo! Now I just need two. :-(

      --

      "And like that ... he's gone."
  49. Ogg support? by Zilch · · Score: 1

    Sean? Is it possible to add this?

    Thanks,

    Zilch.

    1. Re:Ogg support? by seanadams.com · · Score: 1

      It only does MP3, since it pumps everything through a dedicated MPEG
      decoder. I will be adding support for other formats (OGG, AIFF, etc) by
      encoding/transcoding to MP3 (usually 384K) on the fly in the server, but
      these will not be supported natively by the player. I'm considering
      adding support for raw PCM audio (so any compressed format can be decoded
      on the server, and it sends a 1.5Mbps uncompressed stream to the player)
      but this will not be available in 1.0.

    2. Re:Ogg support? by cybe · · Score: 1

      Would it be possible to make the server relay for instance shoutcast streams to the player? Or maybe the player could be made to stream them directly?

  50. Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    This is an interesting design, but I wonder if they knew that cirrus has basically a 4 chip solution for the entire thing :>

    http://www.cirrus.com/press/news/index.cfm?NewsI D= 180

    Add ram, flash and a DAC - very nice. The 74MHz ARM can do MP3 decoding on the fly, while running linux too :>

  51. dell has a digital audio reciever too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but only supports windows. Manufacturer Part# 632TV Dell Part# 313-8558 http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.a sp?Sku=313%2D8558&spagenum=1&category_id=2999&keyw ord=jukebox&mnf=&prst=0&prEnd=0&mnfsku=&orderby=&S earchType=AND&customer_id=19&Pageb4Search=search&p age=search%2Easp

  52. re: calculus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Calc isn't that hard... Remember - what one fool can do, so can another... And believe me when I tell you that I learned calc - so can you.

    Differentiation - breaking things up

    Integration - putting things together... They make it sound hard, but it's not - all you do is come up with a neat little formula to sum up all the pieces to get a good estimation of the whole. Example: You want to figure out the area which is underneath a curve. Method: Jam as many rectangles underneath as you can and add up the area of each... The smaller the rectangle, the more accurate the result (lower "error of coefficient") and vice versa... It's a friggin' for...next loop when ya get right to it...

    My suggestion - buy an HP28S off of Ebay, or the new HP48GX...

  53. Re: calculus by juju2112 · · Score: 1


    If only teachers would explain calculus in terms of programming, everything would be so much easier! We should have special math classes for programmers so that teachers can use such analogies.

    -- juju

  54. ESD, Anyone? by dfuller · · Score: 1

    Let's see, soldering them together on a polished
    wood table with no ESD protection in sight?

    What are these people thinking?

    Clearly, not much.

    1. Re:ESD, Anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      for christ's sake, motherfucker, did you build a fucking ethernet mp3 player? if not, then shut the fuck up.

    2. Re:ESD, Anyone? by tahpot · · Score: 1

      Uhm..... they're building an ethernet mp3 player (100 of them)

      Alie: I

  55. -1 asshole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    asshole

  56. -1 offtopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i choke on tests, i guarantee you i know more calculus than I need to pass the class, and probably more than I need to go through college. I dont need your arrogant self bothering me with this shit...

  57. Another soon to be victum of the music industry by SquireCD · · Score: 1

    Yeah, that's a really great idea. The guys at Slim Devices are really on to something that could totally be revolutionary. Too bad these music nazi's in the music industry will never let you have the actual songs to use the new technology provided by Slim Devices.

    How nice.

    1. Re:Another soon to be victum of the music industry by jroysdon · · Score: 1

      Why do people just assume that MP3 == illegally downloaded music? Granted, now most technical folks prefer Ogg for licensing reasons, but the masses could care less.

      My point is, mp3 format doesn't mean a pirated version. My Wife and I ripped all our CDs about a year ago and put them in one of our storage sheds out back.

      Worst case, if these new CDs that "break" mp3 encoding come out, you can always rip them in analog mode (sucks, true, but it would still work).

  58. Internet Server? by mlati · · Score: 1

    I assume it will be possible to hook up your net server/home machine and allow anonymous people stream your music? ...can anybody go into the technical details? ..sounds like the beginning of something big ..legal issues?

  59. Re: calculus by affenmann · · Score: 1

    If only programming would be explained in terms of calculus, our programs would be so much better!

  60. Re:Flash config, access control by seanadams.com · · Score: 1

    What happens if and when the server crashes? Does the unit remember its past configuration?

    Do you mean the SliMP3 server program (it doesn't crash), or the server machine/os? Anyway, no, you don't have to re-enter the IP config if the SliMP3 player is power-cycled. It's stored in flash.

    Also, I think there could be security issues in having an "open" device connecting to the server without any authentication...

    The server allows you to restrict access by IP address. The SliMP3 player and server are not intended for sharing MP3s with others, but it is designed to let you service many players from a single machine (over the Internet, if you want). The idea is that you can stick a server in the closet with a few gigs of your legally obtained :) mp3s, and then have a few players in different rooms, all playing different streams from that one server.

  61. So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try asking to some students to design a decoder chip
    for free, then go to Motorola, TI, Natsemi, ST, etc, asking
    to produce only one 1000 units lot.
    They will laugh at you.

    I'm an OGG user too, but that was easy: I didn't pay for it,
    I just downloaded the codec, but producing chips is a
    different story.

    In the consumer market, things are sold before they're
    produced. If you can't know how many people would buy
    the OGG chip now, this means that nobody is going to
    produce it now.
    So, the best thing we can do to get OGG support in future
    products is to ask to those companies for it.
    They should know that lots of people would need it,
    otherwise you can bet they'll never produce the chip:
    they already sell mp3 chips, and that's enough.

  62. shameless plug.. by Sir+Frag-A-Lot · · Score: 1

    There's even another ethernet player project: visit www.kreapc.de, and here are some
    pictures of the player.

    all source code is GPL'ed.

    --
    ... crusher[kreaPC] ...
  63. Another player by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I myself am using a Lansonic DAS-750. Lots of sweeties in that little thing too.

    The unit is running some flavour of Linux with smbd (allowing the unit to access music stored on your networked computers and allows your networked computers to play the files stored on the DAS) and a primitive webserver.

    Control the player with a standard remote or by using the jog-wheel on the unit or even with the units own builtin webserver, which is serving a remote-control java-applet.

    Lansonic now and then publishes new firmware on their website, just click settings/upgrade on the unit and it'll fetch the files right out of their webserver.

    www.lansonic.com for those who are interested.

    /Niklas

  64. MP3-internet player : it exists for quite a whille by Type+O+- · · Score: 1

    Gateway has developped one few time ago and was
    for sale since beginning of this year
    I had one in my own hands and was quite handy to configure

    --
    In my days, hardware was guns......
  65. I Like it, but.. by jcr · · Score: 2

    I think I'd like it a bit more if it was USB or 802.11.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  66. what's the difference.... by haz-mat · · Score: 1

    between this and the Dell Audio Reciever? I have one it works well, collecting dust on my shelf right now cuz i just moved and have drilled holes for network cable yet.

  67. Already exists: Turtle Beach Audiotron by Whip · · Score: 1
    This definately isn't a big deal... a few companies have these already. The one I ended up with is a Turtle Beach Audiotron ($300), also sold by Gateway as the Gateway Connected Music Player ($200). Features?
    • Standard A/V component size -- Looks good with your VCR, receiver, etc.
    • Rackmountable.
    • Ethernet or home-phone-line networking (I forget the acronym)
    • Reads files via SMB [From any windows box, or linux with samba. Means normal folks can use it, too. I just can't see my mom installing perl on windows...]
    • Linux+Samba officially supported by Turtle Beach.
    • Vacuum display (40x2)
    • Web browser interface for configuration and playing [in current 2.0 beta software]
    • Random play, repeat play
    • Supports icecast/shoutcast streaming [in current 2.0 beta software]
    • Analog (RCA) and digital (TOSlink) outputs
    • Good front-panel interface (or small remote)
    • GREAT support -- Turtle beach has implemented almost every feature requested on their audiotron mailing list.

    I really suggest these to anyone that needs an mp3 player in their stereo system. The sound quality is good, the interface is good, the support is stellar, the price is right... Since the new beta software has started coming out, I've had _no_ complaints of any type (in some 6 months of use).

    Anyone who gets one of these should definately keep up with the mailing list (maillist.voyetra.com) and download the 1.9.xx beta software. A -lot- of user interface changes (for the (much) better) have gone into this newer software, along with a bunch of other nifty features.

    Definately run right out and get one. They're great, they're cheap, and, well, they're great.

  68. Make it wireless! by tinrobot · · Score: 1

    Instead of wiring it to a fixed point in the house (meaning I have to wire the WHOLE house with CAT5) they should put rechargable batteries in the thing and an 802.11 card instead of plain old ethernet.

    That way, I can take the thing anywhere! My own MP3 radio station! (Well, within limits, of course... ) But I do think that wireless would be the true killer app for this stuff.

    1. Re:Make it wireless! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That way, I can take the thing anywhere! My own MP3 radio station! (Well, within limits, of course... ) But I do think that wireless would be the true killer app for this stuff.
      That is what I am working on doing. I have an MP3 CD player and am ordering a 1 WATT FM transmitter. Take one of these to school, and really piss the administrators off when they find a student is broadcasting information without "approval", and have no way of tracking down the transmitter.
  69. Mirror up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've put up a mirror of the site at http://slimd.netli.com/

  70. Troll alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is probably just someone trying to make Slashdot users believe that post are being deleted by the editors.

    It's been going on for a while now. The guy puts a reply in a thread, changing the subject line to something like "Re: [put Slashdot conspiracy here]" and replies to some made up quoted text from the non-existent original message.

    It's just another kind of troll, or better: a bad attempt at one.

  71. "The New HP48GX" ?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hello 1995, how have you been?

  72. Firmware written in assembler? by zerofoo · · Score: 1

    Uh-oh. This looks like trouble. What happens when the CPU is discontinued? Will they have to re-write the firmware with every product revision? This looks like a support nightmare in the works.

  73. A hint for success by Dwonis · · Score: 2

    I think I'd buy one of these things if they supported IPv6 with anycast.
    This is exactly the kind of thing IPv6 was designed for, and since I'm going
    to start converting my home network to primarily use IPv6, this would be a
    perfect addition to my setup.

  74. This would be perfect for in the car use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This would be perfect
    i could put an old box with some big HD in the boot and replace the head unit with this
    wouldnt need to run any keyboards to the front of the car and can easily update the box using FTP by throwing an uber long cable from my window to my car

    think i will have to get one of these =)

    -- Devilish
    www.be3.net

  75. Good effort, guys... by thejake316 · · Score: 1

    That is pretty cool, just not as practical as it might be, and I'm guessing a bit expensive. Cool display units in small quantities are generally extremely bad deals, most good deals on project displays are pulls, obsolete or weird surplus/seconds lots, but you don't want to go selling that kind of stuff to people. ICs have interesting economics also, I recollect for some simplex repeater project I thought was cool way back in my active ham days an IC required (I think a 30 second digital recorder) could be sourced from Radio Shack for about $25 and was also available from a supplier for like $100 plus $7 shipping for 1-25. That wasn't the price break, if you sent a MO for $107 they'd send you however many you wanted up to 25. The real pricing didn't start until you wanted 501 or more.

    One of the lessons I learned hard way is when you're trying to produce anything destined for retail is "if you didn't buy by the pallet you paid too much" and I'm starting to think "if you didn't buy a truckload you paid too much" is the better way to put it. Chips and boards is made in a whole 'nother hemisphere from where I is, and I know they don't float 'em across individually in pie tins. The guy I'm going to get the best deal from is the guy who unloaded the big-ass container ship in CA, and he's not going to pop open a tote for me when I call him and say "yeah, I'd like to buy 50 Morimoto GNR2010X's." He's going to call me unkind names and hang up. This seems like common sense, but then you read in your local paper about the guy going into businss selling custom lcd rearview mirrors for trucks, with his superclever wireless ccd camera that goes infrared at night, where he casually mentions they generally cost $1000 installed. Um, I don't own a trucking company, but the trucking industry cried like bitches when the gubbernment here told them they had to apply $150 (the industry said, which means it was probably really $20) worth of reflective tape to their trailers so that it was less likely that motorists would plow into them and DIE if a truck jackknifed in bad weather. If a trailer doesn't have $150 margin to spare over say, a year, to legitimately keep people from dying, what the hell makes you think there's $1000 of margin for you to mount some junk you bought from x10.com on there to keep them from bashing the loading dock as hard?

    All that aside, my current short-term solutions for mp3s are an old thinkpad and patch cable on top of my Aiwa, which is also impractical and expensive, but at least I can read my email on it, and a chopped and hacked iopener that has mp3 duty when it's not the breakfast table/tv room xterm.

    I just deleted several paragraphs describing the media appliance I've been working on because a) somebody will steal my ideas b) nobody helpful will read it anyway c) I might not be done before December as I was planning to be d) somebody else might come out with the same thing or better as I'm working on before me e) all of the above.

    Let's just say mine has an ethernet port too, can do Ogg (you know kids, patented technology doesn't make it BAD as such), and doesn't require specific server software, but it works well with several things. It should start at about $60-80 (maybe less, $80 is worst case), is mainstream enough for average humans, but is quite hackable. I'm not your average vapor-spewing crackpot, either. I have reason to believe I have even less personality and am less likable, but I can do deals.

    --
    AC's cheerfully ignored
  76. Here's my simple solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My brother (4yrs) has an old pII 200 or something like that running win95 which happens to be near the nicest stereo in the house. My computer is no where near any stereo, but since all the computers are connected to rr via ethernet, all local traffic is routed directly and therefore at 10mbps. I stream shoutcast from my computer to my brothers, which has an RCA splitter out to the stereo. Works great, although if I want to change the playlist or song I have to get up. I use it only for parties where I set a playlist and am usually too drunk to care enough to change the song.

  77. This is fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    This is fake
    • No fucking moron solders "5000" surface mount capacitor by hand. Are these things $5000 a sale?
    • If they really are soldering by hand, they will be out of business pretty soon if they can't even afford to get things wave soldered.
    1. Re:This is fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      correct me if i'm wrong but i don't believe you wave solder surface mount components. I think this is only for the first batch going by what they have said earlier

  78. Empeg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will let's see.. Since getting a real job (and earning money so that I can actually AFFORD music), I've purchased on the average 4-5cd's/WEEK - and guess what - every single one of these cd's ends up as an MP3 file on my Empeg car stereo, with the originals going into a storage shelf...

    What the record industry needs to realize is that MP3 is just a format - it doesn't necessarily make pirating any easier or harder - those that can afford the music will buy it, others wont'... There's actually MANY artists who's music I'd never heard of before Napster/etc - Sure, I might download one of their cd's off the web somewhere, but guess what - I'll probably end up purchasing that cd (or their next cd) based on this FREE advertising that the record company received due to napster/napster clones....

    -mark

  79. Price? by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 2

    Okay, so several people have pointed out that several such products have existed for a while. But they're obviously shooting for a low price point. The question is whether they can beat the price of a monochrome iPAQ 3150 ($150 at ebay with CF sleeve included plus $25 for CF Ethernet). Run Linux on it, install madplay and a user interface, and you can play off an NFS *or* Samba server.

    Isn't open source fun?
    -russ

    --
    Don't piss off The Angry Economist
  80. SPAM!!! by emj · · Score: 1

    I post a story at slashdot and then get spamed like there is no tomorrow.. 36 spams in one day...