Slashdot Mirror

Every decade another million is added to the total.

Jews keep inflating the numbers every chance they get.

Come on Germany, ban slashdot now

Bullshit. You're wrong.
The number has been steady at six million jews killed for several decades now.
If anything, the number has gone down since the 1960's

Here's a typical example.
The USA Holocaust Museum says six
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/ar...

The Wiesenthal Center, which is about as jewish as is possible to be, says six million.
http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/si...

Evidence is coming out that Hamas training manuals specifically use Palestinian civilians as human shields in order to force IDF to fire on civilians. Have you seen this or this report? The truth of the matter will be left to historians shifting through, and is hard to ascertain now.

Well..if the US government (stuxnet for example) can do it (with no declaration of war), then it mustn't be illegal right? /ironyoff

If Iran can do it without a declaration of war, then it mustn't be illegal, right? (After all, what is a string of assassinations and a little planning for genocide among friends? No doubt the Iranians are envious because they didn't think of it first.)

At least they have a clear vision for the future, one that seems remarkably free of Jews in the Middle East.

how long? before Iran retaliates and the whole thing escalates into WW3

You mean like seeking regional hegemony, running terrorist campaigns worldwide, threaten to close the Strait of Hormuz, threaten Europe's energy supplies to freeze people, use suicide boats to attack gulf shipping, arm Hezbollah to attack Israel with and ultimate goal of destroying Israel, attack US troops, send suicide bombers to Europe and America, aid America's enemies, threaten attacks on nearby countries and cities with missiles, kill diplomats, subvert nearby countries, unleash the suicide bomb brigades (serious), and the ninjas (you decide), perhaps adding some WMDs to the attacks?

I doubt that many people will buy it.

Yet, they haven't shot at anyone.

Unlike certain free country which is pillaging and burning things around the world, both militarily and politically.

Stop that fucking nonsense, ok?

Since what you wrote is false, how about you first?

State Sponsors: Iran

Iranians 'targeted Israeli diplomats' - Published: 15/02/2012 at 04:35 PM

Thai authorities charged two Iranians on Wednesday over an alleged bomb plot against Israeli diplomats, officials said, piling pressure on Teheran over accusations of a terror campaign against the Jewish state.

Authorities said they had laid criminal charges against two Iranian suspects accused of involvement in the three blasts in central Bangkok yesterday.

One of the men -- named as 28-year-old Saeid Morati -- lost both legs after he hurled an explosive device at police while fleeing an earlier blast at a house in the capital. The satchel containing the bomb, which he threw at a police vehicle, bounced off another vehicle and exploded at his feet.

A second Iranian suspect, Mohammad Hazaei, was detained trying to board a flight out of the country at Suvarnabhumi airport. A third Iranian suspect is believed to have fled to Malaysia, officials said.

"These three Iranian men are an assassination team and their targets were Israeli diplomats including the ambassador," a senior Thai intelligence official told AFP, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"Their plan was to attach bombs to diplomats' cars." . . . .

Israel accused Iran of orchestrating attacks on Israeli embassy staff in India and Georgia on Monday.

An Israeli diplomat in New Delhi suffered grave shrapnel wounds when a motorbike assailant attached a bomb to her car on Monday.

Experts: Iran's Quds Force Deeply Enmeshed in Iraq

U.S. blames Iran for new bombs in Iraq

Iran’s Quds Force was blamed for attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq

Iran's Quds Force: Supporting Terrorism Worldwide

Leader of Iran’s Al-Quds Forces Says Iraq and Southern Lebanon Are Under His Control

Iran threatens to close Strait of Hormuz over EU oil sanctions

Iranian weapons seized in Afghanistan

One more, then I'm going to stop since this could easily turn into a seemingly never-ending story. I've hardly touched on Iran's activities around the world. I've hardly even scratched the surface of Iran's involvement in Lebanon, and with Hezbollah, and the massive amount of arms that they've been providing. You do know that Hezbollah, aiming at the desturction of Israel, has 50,000 rockets now, right?

Simon Wiesenthal Center: Iranian Calls to Destroy Jewish People Unparalleled Since Nazi Germany

Frankly, I'm baffled by how people miss this. I guess it doesn't come up at the "anti-Zionist" meeting

Erratum:

Never mind a few million people of other nationalities[...]

Including approximately two million German civilians of all ages and gender killed after the war during the ethnic cleansing of Eastern and Central European lands, where Germans had been living for many centuries. To be sure, Churchill and Roosevelt regretted this unpleasantness—but they wanted to keep Stalin happy, and Stalin wanted to hang on to that chunk of Poland that Hitler had given him. So the Poles got a chunk of Germany to "compensate" them, and, in turn, they expropriated and drove out the previous German tenants. In ex-Czechoslovakia, things went just as badly for the Sudeten Germans who lived there. To quote Eduard Bene upon his return in the wake of Allied troops: "Woe, woe woe, thrice woe to the Germans, we will liquidate you!". [After the Reich, Giles Macdonogh, 2007, Basic Books, New York, N.Y.]

Yes, I know; of course they deserved it.

I don't understand you "erratum" comment, by the way: do you truly think only Jews suffered persecution during the Second World War? Here's a quote from a pretty reliable source:

3. How many non-Jewish civilians were murdered during World War II? Answer: While it is impossible to ascertain the exact number, the recognized figure is approximately 5,000,000. Among the groups which the Nazis and their collaborators murdered and persecuted were: Gypsies, Serbs, Polish intelligentsia, resistance fighters from all the nations, German opponents of Nazism, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, habitual criminals, and the "anti-social," e.g. beggars, vagrants, and hawkers.

Since you consider Wikipedia Soviet apologist propoganda:
Monument to Estonian SS Veterans put up and removed
Simon Wiesenthal war crimes campaign in Baltics
Report on the Holocaust in the Baltics

I'm done. Take care

I'd like to expand on the sibling who recommended to read Wilhelm Reich. I think the best you can do to learn about how they knew is to read (some of) the many autobiographies written by people who lived through it in Germany or the concentration camps, or fled. There is a huge number of writings available in German. I don't know how many of those are available in English, but I guess at least those of the more famous refugees who have found a haven in the US are.

I'd recommend from he top of my head to look into the lives of these people (didn't check that they all have written auobiographies, but their lives and works will be interesting reading nevertheless): Manès Sperber, Hannah Arendt (all is recommended; she wrote an essay, "We Refugees" that was once published by New York Press, I don't know if it is still available), Arnold Schönberg, Maria von Trapp ("The Sound of Music"), Sigmund Freud, Claude Lévi-Strauss, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper (required reading for slashdotters in any case), Billy Wilder, Elias Canetti, or Thomas Mann.

Wikipedia has a good list of famous refugees.

In German there are whole libraries of first-person accounts by non-famous people, again I don't know about English availability. The Shoah Foundation and the Simon Wiesenthal Center will give you a good start. You might also want to watch Shoah for a first-person account of the times on film.

Isn't it fucking scary that there is need to think about this? In Austria, where I originally come from, a certain local brand of populist neofascism has been on the rise for 20 years (don't believe anyone who tells you it was contained. It was not, it has just become mainstream in a harder-to-detect form) and the political climate in Europe, as in the US, has become considerably scarier. It is/was a common theme among old people I know/knew that it all reminds them terribly of the late 1920ies/1930ies.

"Jew Roundup? An RTS where you are a Nazi trying to gather up those pesky jews and get them to extermination camps before being over run?"


While you may be joking. I think this game would go over well with muslims in the middle east, particualrly Iran. Even here in the western hemisphere, there are countries where this would be quite popular. I'd be very surprised if it hasnt been made yet.

"Master. You are running a plantation before in the old south. You must get as much work out of your slaves and through selective breeding improve the quality of your stock?"


The second game does exist and was even used in some schools in the US in the mid 90s to teach history (it also included a mini game if shipping slaves) until it was removed.

The Nazis invented jet aircraft. They also murdered millions of innocents.

Not to belittle the Holocaust but at first the NAZIs tried to get millions to move. NAZIs signed two contracts with Jewish groups to allow Jews to emmigrate from Europe. Though it doesn't give much detail the Simon Wiesenthal Center does mention them some, 26. What efforts were made to save the Jews fleeing from Germany before World War II began? This provides more detail on one, The "Haavara Agreement". Here's a translation of the text of the second, Rublee-Wohlthat-Agreement. Basically the "Haavara Agreement" encouraged Jews to emmigate to Palestine and the Rublee-Wohlthat-Agreement had them emmigrate anywhere else that would accept them.

So while what the NAZIs and Third Reich did was horrendous at first they tried to get Jews to leave Europe. Also it wasn't just jews that were persecuted, Sinti or Roma, also called gypsies along with Slavs and others were persecuted as well.

You acknowledge that a system based on fear keeps you in line, yet you applaud it. There's a word for people like you. Hey, here's another. Wouldja look at this, seems there's a whole bunch!

I sincerely hope your children manage to escape your influence and grow up to be decent human beings.

A friend just said, after reading it, "wow... how come I feel that i was just glared at by the SS?"

I am guessing your friend feels like that because he is an idiot. No I am serious, this is not flamebait, why not see what the SS did

The MPAA is full of retards, but the SS were truly sadistic, evil men and as such comparisons should be used with great deliberance... not as an off the cuff remark.

--Joey

You have to wonder how anyone can utter - let alone believe - something so demonstrably wrong as "violence doesn't solve anything" or "an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind," or any other pacifist platitudes. These are the moral and intellectual equivalents of "the earth is flat." In fact, it is easier to show that violence solves many evils than it is to show that the earth is round.

It was violence that destroyed Adolph Hitler and Nazism. Only violence. Not talk. Not negotiations. Not good will.

It is violence used by police that stops violent criminals from murdering or otherwise hurting innocent people. There are many innocent men and women alive today solely because some policeman used violence to save their lives.

It was violence that ended slavery in America. Had violence not been used against the Confederacy, the United States would have been cut in half, and millions of black men and women would have remained slaves.

The list of moral good achieved by violence is endless. -- Denis Prager

Wow, did you take that from a Nazi propaganda poster about jews or something?

Anyway, was there anything incorrect about what the grandparent said?

These [the Holocaust] are crimes of the past and the persons who did it are dead (...) However, the executive branch does not make the laws.

But the executive branch often initiates the laws and passes the proposed bills to the parliament. Just check the case of one Hans Globke, the guy who wrote the Nuremberg Laws in 1935 - these laws were actually the legal framework of the Holocaust. They allowed to gather Jewish citizens in ghettos and subsequently eliminate them, all according to the law (the Nuremberg Law). The very same Hans Globke was appointed Staatssekretaer (State Secretary of the Federal Republic of Germany - the highest administrative post in Germany) in 1953 and he was one of the people shaping the federal German state as we know it today. So of course you're right pointing, that he's dead but... this is the country he has shaped. Many leading public officials of the whole Adenauer era had similar skeletons in closets (technically, not exactly skeletons but rather their Nazi uniforms back from the "good old days"). Therefore there was nothing strange in the fact, that in 1963 German state police seized the office of an indepented weekly magazine - just because it was investigating a corruption case. Yes, I know that the Spiegel Scandal eventually ended in a triumph of democracy - but please observe how lightly the aspect of private property and individual freedom was treated in this case. In Germany it can't happen as well today - this is the same state with the same law. Co-written by Hans Globke and alike.

Being an European myself, I'm not surprised. Europe as such had always less serious approach to habeas corpus than America. In many European countries, police needs no warrant to search & seize private property. Police is not obliged to read the arrested person "his Miranda". When you are arrested in Europe and you'll say "hey! I have a right to make a phone call", the policeman is quite likely to say "no, you don't - you're watching too much American flicks". And he might be right. Of course, one can name many violations of individual freedom in the USA (especially in the past), but they are a violation of something that exists at least in theory. In Europe, it might not even be in theory, not to mention reality. Heck, Great Britain doesn't even have a constitution, so if you'll ever say "buddy, you violate my constitutional rights" to a British policeman, you will probably give him a good laughter.

One cannot forget that many European states had experiences with fascism, communism and other authoritarianisms. The lawmakers and administrators creating the democratic Germany and Austria had often Nazi or even SS past - like the infamous Theodor Oberlander or Kurt Waldheim. But similar affairs of the "Vichy past" were striking the French public life, and actually the Spanish "Guardia Civil" is exactly the same formation known as "death troops" during the Franco regime - they didn't even bother to change the name. The authoritarian past in Europe is not that distant - Spain, Portugal and Greece ended their dictatorships as late as in mid-1970's. Now Europe accepts fresh crop of authotirtarians from the post-communist states. The people who once sent other people to gulag and confiscated their "bourgeois property" will be the lawmakers in Strasbourg and Brussels. Along with the people who sent other people to "gaskammers" and confiscated their "Jewish property".

Yes, I am exaggerating (and maybe even flamebaiting ;-)), but that's because I am very much concerned by the direction the EU is turning to. But I want to emphasize the fact, that while "hey, it's against habeas corpus!" is still a valid argument in the USA (even if it will be overruled by the "what's good for RIAA/MPAA is good for everyone", also known as the Zero Amendment) - in Europe it might not even be a valid argument at all.

Do we get to sue the Spanish for thier attacks on the Aztecs? How about the Aztecs for thier wars on neighboring tribes? Do the Israelis get to sue the EU for money the EU provided to the PA that was then passed into the hands of a Hamas cell?

It could work in the world's favor.

Well, the problem is we need a world court.

But similar things has been/are being done, with varying degrees of success, using national courts:

http://www.wiesenthal.com/swiss/mandates.cfm.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/3970567.htm?templat e=contentModules/printstory.jsp

I've wondered about this -- I wouldn't want to fall into the trap of sanctimony -- but I just don't buy it. It is easier to reconstruct what people knew and when they knew it than to decide when people of reasonable intelligence should have or probably did read between the lines. but for me, the 1935 Nuremberg laws deprived Jews of German citizenship and imposing numerous indignities were a point of no return. It was evident well before that that Hitler and his crew were a bunch of thugs. Finally the 1938 Kristallnacht was as blunt as one could get -- yet was met with apathy in the West. Our major affliction was not ignorance but isolationism, and it took Pearl Harbor to change our philosophy to interventionism.

There is no binary switch between moral and immoral conduct. Nor was there a precise moment of epiphany that it was time to spurn the Nazis. But of course some companies crossed the line. And why should we think they did not -- not even one of them? Even today we see that corporate run the gamut from pristine to deplorable, so logically some companies must have continued doing business even after the writing was on the wall. They should acknowledge their mistakes, or at least all the facts surrounded their conduct, address any necessary restitution, and get on with things. We expect no less of ordinary shoplifters.

If the plight of the Nazis Germans is not enough, recall that the infrastructure American companies helped Germany to build was in time turned against us.

The example I mention elsewhere in this thread is Henry Ford, a virulent anti-Semite who even bought a newspaper to publish his views. A google of Ford and Nazi provides plenty of reading. Most dramatic is Ford receiving the highest Nazi civilian honor in 1938.

Parenthetically, we are to varying degrees engaged in the problems with the trade issues you identify, perhaps too much, perhaps too little, according to whom you ask. But we do not have to be guiltless to smell something rotten from the past.

when i hear the word 'culture' i reach for my revolver" - Henry Miller

The quote is actually from Hanns Johst, a Nazi playwright. It is often attributed to Goering, who conceivably repeated it.

It is an unlikely thing for Miller to say. He wrote in a tribute to Kenneth Patchem: "In our society the artist is not encouraged. not lauded, not rewarded, unless he makes use of a weapon more powerful than those employed by his adversaries. Such a weapon is not to be found in shops or arsenals: it has to be forged by the artist himself out of his own tissue."

In truth Germany was beaten after it failed to capture Moscow in fall 1941. The Germans were completely unprepared for a winter campaign, not even having adequate clothing for their soldiers let alone other supplies. After the failure to take Moscow, Hitler dismissed many of his top generals including the father of German armor Heinz Guderian. Perhaps his decision to order the army to stand fast in the face of a strong Soviet counterattack that winter saved the front from total collapse, but otherwise, Hitler in command was an endless series of catastrophes such as Stalingrad and Kursk.

The argument I suppose is that had Great Britain been strangled by the German U-boats than the Soviet Union would not have been supplied by Lend Lease. Lend Lease provided all sorts of supplies including I believe basically the entire truck force that gave the Red Army mobility in the counterattack. However, the facts are that by December 1941 the Germans were already in retreat, they were going to lose stupendous numbers of men in the winter because of unpreparedness, the Soviets had a tank the T-34 coming into mass production better than any tank the Germans could ever produce in mass quantities, and Hitler was in personal command. Even with no Great Britain, Germany after 1941 needed to learn how to fight a defensive war to force a stalemate, precisely the type of strategy Hitler would never have authorized. And in addition, the Germans would not have been able to complete an atomic bomb for many years. Sure they would have had V2s but the Soviets had the more battlefield effective Katyusha. (Okay mass deployment was helped by those Lense Lease trucks.) Soviet technology was sufficient to counter Germany's, with the possible exception of rocket-powered fighters, a technology that Hitler delayed until it was too late due to his obsession with rocket bombers.

It is possible that a hundred years from now the real intelligence agency story of World War II will be how Joseph Stalin in his paranoid purges destroyed the finest network of spies ever assembled. Think of this, a time when Communism still had sway as an effective religion to produce loyal agents in any country. The United States for the past few decades has been continuously learning that one can't buy that type of loyal fanatic agent abroad, which is why the US is so dependent on high tech and American citizen agents, a combination totally incapable of predicting anything in hostile areas. Even though Stalin tried to order all his foreign agents back to the Soviet Union to be executed, there was still enough of a remnant such as the Red Orchestra to give Stalin a precise warning of when the Germans would attack. But Stalin had screwed things up so badly that the Soviets were caught totally unprepared. The initial catastrophe of the first few months when Soviet forces were repeatedly surrounded and annihilated was the only reason the Germans got as far as they did. Had Stalin followed through using the human intelligence network he had at his disposal, Germany would have been beaten years sooner, and perhaps all of continental Europe is occupied by the Red Army.

In truth Germany was beaten after it failed to capture Moscow in fall 1941. The Germans were completely unprepared for a winter campaign, not even having adequate clothing for their soldiers let alone other supplies. After the failure to take Moscow, Hitler dismissed many of his top generals including the father of German armor Heinz Guderian. Perhaps his decision to order the army to stand fast in the face of a strong Soviet counterattack that winter saved the front from total collapse, but otherwise, Hitler in command was an endless series of catastrophes such as Stalingrad and Kursk.

The argument I suppose is that had Great Britain been strangled by the German U-boats than the Soviet Union would not have been supplied by Lend Lease. Lend Lease provided all sorts of supplies including I believe basically the entire truck force that gave the Red Army mobility in the counterattack. However, the facts are that by December 1941 the Germans were already in retreat, they were going to lose stupendous numbers of men in the winter because of unpreparedness, the Soviets had a tank the T-34 coming into mass production better than any tank the Germans could ever produce in mass quantities, and Hitler was in personal command. Even with no Great Britain, Germany after 1941 needed to learn how to fight a defensive war to force a stalemate, precisely the type of strategy Hitler would never have authorized. And in addition, the Germans would not have been able to complete an atomic bomb for many years. Sure they would have had V2s but the Soviets had the more battlefield effective Katyusha. (Okay mass deployment was helped by those Lense Lease trucks.) Soviet technology was sufficient to counter Germany's, with the possible exception of rocket-powered fighters, a technology that Hitler delayed until it was too late due to his obsession with rocket bombers.

It is possible that a hundred years from now the real intelligence agency story of World War II will be how Joseph Stalin in his paranoid purges destroyed the finest network of spies ever assembled. Think of this, a time when Communism still had sway as an effective religion to produce loyal agents in any country. The United States for the past few decades has been continuously learning that one can't buy that type of loyal fanatic agent abroad, which is why the US is so dependent on high tech and American citizen agents, a combination totally incapable of predicting anything in hostile areas. Even though Stalin tried to order all his foreign agents back to the Soviet Union to be executed, there was still enough of a remnant such as the Red Orchestra to give Stalin a precise warning of when the Germans would attack. But Stalin had screwed things up so badly that the Soviets were caught totally unprepared. The initial catastrophe of the first few months when Soviet forces were repeatedly surrounded and annihilated was the only reason the Germans got as far as they did. Had Stalin followed through using the human intelligence network he had at his disposal, Germany would have been beaten years sooner, and perhaps all of continental Europe is occupied by the Red Army.

Basically it goes into the profound similarity between in cultural situations where group X says Group Y is horrible, evil, etc. It is a revelation to recognize it as a profound group psychosis. It has nothing to do with politics or religion in the common sense of the word. It is a revelation to see it in oneself and to overcome it.

I have lived over seas, and I have also seen it in the middle east. The fact of the hate itself I consider a psychosis. Two psychotics do not make either side a saint.

I have seen a man reading the bible, interjecting racist remarks into the plain text, convinced that what he was saying was in fact in the text. When it wasn't there at all.

Fundamentally, I throw out and throw away anything that walks down the road of foam at the mouth these guys or those guys or them guys over there are PURE evil.

One of the things that Wiesenthall (a WWII deathcamp survivor and famed Nazi hunter) said about the Nazis was the sheer shock that he discovered that they were human, too. Simply human. That there was no more monster there then there was in anyone else.

All too much of this takes the witch hunt attitude of "we will search for evidence of evil"; it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, and down the toilet you go. I have seen some of the stuff you are talking about, and the wacko gleam in the eye obsession is there in an awful lot of the writing.

I am sorry. I reject that obsession with hate and the urge to detroy. I have lost family due to such hate (I am not jewish)

I may despise MS, for example, for their software and marketing practices. But ultimately, they too are human.

Go ahead. Hate them. Hate them. Hate them more thoroughly, despise them as completely as possible, until there is no room in your soul for anything else. Forever.

And see where it leaves you.

It is not a place I recommend. But you can live there if you want.

Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip

It's been done. The Simon Weisenthal Center has been griping about "KZ Concentration Camp Manager" since 1995, and working to get it suppressed, with considerable success.

Props to the original poster for including the line about Communists -- it's frequently omitted, probably because people find it embarrassing.

The Simon Weisenthal Center has a problem - their mission is finished. Their original purpose was to locate old Nazis from WWII and have them punished. But over time, the old Nazis died off or were too geriatric to get excited about. Like other charities that outlived their usefulness, they looked for a new mission. The mission they ended up with was the manufacture and sale of guilt. They now have a chain of Holocaust museums and various relatedproduct lines. It's become an industry, like the Vietnam POW/MIA thing. To keep the contributions flowing in, they have to keep trying to make Americans feel guilty. Part of this is inflating the neo-Nazi threat.

At least in the U.S., the neo-Nazi movement has always been a joke. Back in the '60s we had George Lincoln Rockwell and his American Nazi Party. That went nowhere. And none of its successors have advanced beyond the tiny-bunch-of-jerks level.

If you'd like to see a site the Weisenthal Center has tried to shut down, see Stormfront. This is a spinoff of the Klu Klux Klan, not a neo-Nazi site. The Klan's idea of White Power excludes Jews, so the ADL and the Weisenthal Center went after Stormfront, which increased Stormfront's visibility substantially. There's a mutually supportive relationship between the extremist groups at both ends of the spectrum - they need each other to have someone to hate. Nobody else cares much.

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