Slashdot Mirror

I spent 30 minutes and actually READ the contract. (had to increase the font since it was placed in a tiny window and was using the smallest font) the one you uploaded at http://wyvern.org/citizenre.pdf didn't load - error 403 - Forbidden.
It clearly states the following:
1 - THEY can change any terms of the contract at any time. They just have to mail it to you within a month.
2 - They cannot guarantee that the electricity THEIR unit is going to produce is going to be BOUGHT by your electric company AND that you will continue to pay (for 25 years unless you try to cancel) for ALL electricity that leaves your house even though your public utility company may decide not to honor the agreement or reduce how much they pay per kWh. How's that for fair? Paying for something you cannot even use. From what I understand they directly connect to the grid and there are NO batteries of any kind - so during day when there's no one home it may be charging you money because it's sending most electricity outside the house and this energy cannot be stored for later use. Instead, you have to buy it back from the util company when you get home. Like I said, if electric company pays nothing or next to nothing to you for every kWh you generate and "sell" you may be stuck with a nasty bill from Citizenre.
3 - You have to pay $500 upfront before you even get the system. I think this is the heart of their Ponzi scheme. They will get enough customers and will delay rollouts at any cost - maybe even will promise to give you a preferred rate, a chance to buy company stock (by the way they are not listed on ANY stock exchange) and other things that may delay you from getting your money back. I am normally a pretty trusting person so I actually think they will subcontract some installers to go out and roll out anywhere from 300 to 500 homes @ $30k per house. Even with 10 million out of their pocket they get to keep 40 million dollars IF they decide to capsize their venture at that time. I assume their top performers who signed up the most $500 paying customers will get the free installs" They are not dummies and have chosen the right state to incorporate in. Under limited liability, their personal assets will be protected...whether they decide to give themselves 10 or 5 million dollar bonuses, before filing for bankruptcy, is entirely up to them. Since they are not publicly traded, they are not subject to audit or mandatory financial reporting that companies like BP or Shell have to provide and file every quarter.
4 - when you signed the contract you exempted them from any ERRORS that the billing computer may make. You don't have the right to open the box and examine its function. (i guess you could compare what the meter said and what their unit said but then you would still have to shut off ALL appliances in the house to get accurate results) So you would have to PAY even if their computer screwed up or was off by 1% or 50. You can dispute the charges but you still have to pay first and then wait for arbitration.
5 - unit that they will install will not be insured. So if a tree branch falls on it and breaks $30k install, you are responsible. This means you have have yo get your own insurance or add it to your home owner's policy. You will also have to connect it to your telephone line since they will not pay for one or for phone calls that their computer will make.
6- You are responsible for any taxes due to state, federal or local governments. not too clear but I assume since you will be selling electricity, you will be taxed by at least one of those. (they won't and make it very clear)

I guess we'll see what happens soon enough. They also mentioned something about franchising on their website so they may be targeting bigger fish in the pond.
Watch the following - Rob Styler actually explains how this a pyramid scheme and you can make up to 300 per customer you sign, "but the money won't be there, right away" He claims they set aside 5 million to pay off "early visionaries" and if you ware willing to wait (big alert flag here) you will be rewarded. If this isn't another 1980s-catch-phrase-style, ponzi mass-marketing scheme, I don't what is.
Powur to the people!

Again, as I said above, I do not have the credit to sustain a $25-$35k loan, even if it is for excellently cool solar energy.

You can see the contract here: http://wyvern.org/citizenre.pdf

http://wyvern.org/images/lj/redeem.png

Of course, the filename that the image is in contains the word "promo," so it's possible ad-block software nukes it.

Yes, BNETD is completely dead. The DMCA has prevailed.

- A.P.

http://www.wyvern.org/mirrors/embed/

for more: http://www.wyvern.org/mirrors.html

http://www.wyvern.org/mirrors/embed/

for more: http://www.wyvern.org/mirrors.html

Sure .. send me an e-mail and we'll arrange lunch sometime. Meet you on the square? ;)

---

http://www.wyvern.org/images/msad.jpg

(Crusin' at +2 today)

---

There's also a 403 Forbidden instead of the front page. Oops, oh well, guess the l33t hax0rz got to it before most others did ... or the ISP :)

wyvern.org

--------------------

You're darn right I'm no charity, and neither is this person. Just so happens we have .org addresses since none of the names we wanted were in .com or .net. Matter of fact, I tend to register .org addys when I'm doing a project or something, since they're almost always available.

--------------------

ok, so it was lame humour .. oh well.

--------------------

For me, development has always come down to the best tools for the job or hobby or project or whatever. In Programming Holy Wars on my web site, someone roasts me for using ASP instead of PHP.

99.89% of my development job involves writing applications that are designed for either in-house use or for technically savvy customers. They also needed this tool yesterday, before the huge clusterfuck that just occured. What will it most likely get written in? You guessed it ... Visual Basic. Instead of wading through VC++ code, assembing everything from the ground up, I write it the fastest way possible.

It's all about getting the job done in a way that works and that you can still mess with in the end. There is no "right" answer to this Ask /. question, as the "right" answer will always depend on the individual situation.

--------------------

I am the service provider. Come and get me. The Associated Pricks can take the DMCA and shove it. Hey Elian! Wassup!

The DMCA must die. Now. Do not let them kill fair use!
---

What qualifies as hosting your own content? I.E. Say I run a web server on my DSL line (which is true), and I do something like host a mirror of controversial material. Who is the service provider in this case, me or my ISP? It would seem to me I am, and that my ISP wouldn't come into the picture, because my agreement with them says it's my line and I can do with it what I want, and anything that says 'lawyer' on it will be forwarded in my general direction.

So, in short, is the content provider the person/entity who runs the web site or server or wherever you're accessing the information from?

--------------------

If any of you out there either have, or know someone who has, a contract from a "major" record label, with filled-in information on payment, royalties, etc (or heck, blank, even, I'll take what I can get), I'd be most grateful if you could send me a copy of it. You are quite welcome to black out any identifying information, just leave the bits about payment, terms, etc, intact (unless they specifically are secret). Your contract information will be kept absolutely confidential, and I will not reveal to anyone that I got my information specifically from you.

If you can help me, please either scan in and e-mail it to me at wesmills@wyvern.org, or e-mail me for my mailing address. If you mail it to me, you will be compensated for the postage and so forth.

Thanks in advance!

--------------------