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why would I want to buy and download a 128kb/s MP3? the quality would be horrible? who would dictate what bitrate they sell the file at?

I still prefer to buy my CDs and encode them myself. That way -I- get to control how big my files are and how good they sound.

Actually it's not "wide open". RTSP is just a session protocol for getting the encoded bitstream to the player. They publish the RTSP/RTP spec here for developers of firewalls, proxies etc.

I don't see any documentation there that tells me how to decode their more "advanced" bitstreams that ride within RTSP/RTP. And even that were available, it is a safe assumption that it would come with a very restrictive license.

The XIPH.org Foundation is making Realnetworks offerings increasingly technologically irrelevant.

Ogg Vorbis uses MDCT and not wavelets.

See the FAQ for details.

Ogg Vorbis? Slashdot? GIMP? Oh yeah, big corporations are the only ones with weird names.

Slashdot types want everything free as in beer, which doesn't encourage creation.

It doesn't? Why, I though this, this, and this were all free? Or do you mean they're not creative?

This is not a black/white issue, but rather a grey one. The shade of grey has yet to be determined, but both extremes are wrong. People won't stop being creative if they don't get paid, nor will people stop being creative if they do get paid. And consumers are also black/white. When Napster was at its peak, so were CD sales. Just because you get something for free doesn't mean you're not willing to pay for the same (or similar) thing. And I'd argue that a downloaded mp3 isn't the same thing as owning the CD for several reasons - one being quality.

And how many of you still *pay* for an email address when there are plenty of email addresses to be had for free?

In the interim, there's Ogg Tarkin, but it looks like they're too busy with Vorbis right now.

• But the code is still patented? No! A post from Dan Miller, CEO of On2 Technologies on vorbis-dev:
  
  > Really!?! All I can say is wow. What about the patent issues? Are you
  > granting royalty-free license to the required patents along with the license
  > to the code?
  That's a requirement of the LGPL, so, yes
  
  
• But what about VP4? It's a better codec, and it's proprietary. VP3 is old news. This is in fact the business model taken by some of the leading self-sustaining free software projects like GhostScript, which releases a non-commercial-with-source version and a GPL'd version of GhostScript that's about a year old. Thus, the GPL'd version comes with Linux distributions, non-commercial entities can make use of the latest GhostScript, the company makes money selling licenses to perpetuate the development of the Free Software version, and everyone's happy.

Hey, stop it, that was my post. ;-)
Well I'll post the link then...

It's not like open source software where i can change the code and actually change the functionality.

Actually, it'd be exactly like OSS. I work for a small independent news show (in "beta", look for it on www.fstv.org, a satellite channel :), we have about a terabyte in raid on fibrechannel-accessible NAS boxes. That's for the video post stations, plus a sub-hierarchy of that's interfaced to the post and office LANs thru a linux box (via fibrechannel too), and an FTP proxy server makes part of the hierarchy accessible to our partial OC3.

When freelance video and audio journalists have something they want us to see or use, they drop it on the FTP server. When we have raw interview footage and completed segments we link them to the public hierarchy, where our journalists and partners can download and make use.

Plus, we use free or cheap software-based codecs (mpeg, VP3, we're looking forward to Ogg Tarkin.)

Finally, your statement seems to reflect the non-participatory nature of today's media conglomerate-dominated world ... there there, that's right, be a passive recepticle for whatever pap the majors choose to send your way, why get involved, why tell the story from the pov of yourself or people in your neck of the woods? probably get it "wrong" anyway doncha think ... ;)

Wrong! Everybody's got a story to tell, quality video and audio equipment is at its least expensive in history, and hey, haven't you ever been interested in hearing the stories of people directly involved in major events, rather than the sound-bites fed us?

One time in recent history when this veil got lifted was during 9-11 and afterward, the majors swapped footage gratis, and you heard plenty from people on the ground in NYC and DC. Course, that pretty well snapped shut once the war got underway, but the people are still there and frankly it's healthy to hear from people involved in these conflicts, because it lets you develop your own point of view.

According to this vorbis-dev message, there is an integer vorbis implementation with source available.

Now, with many websites turning into paysites, if AOL people cannot see your website in a proper and appealing way (font types, font syzes, table rendering, html extensions.... all those things that makes a website "designed for IExplorer" .... and mostly unfriendly to mozilla/W3C) they will start to see that their projected visitors/revenue fall down because of lack of standards adherement.

I'd be careful with these people and wait for a real Open Source codec like Ogg Tarkin to mature, or contact On2 to get them to fix their license or, alternatively, to remove the "Open Source" references from their site.

Or would you prefer EVERYTHING be rendered on the fly?

In the case of games, in a word, yes. Given the capablilities of the GeForce3 and GeForce4 Ti series and the Radeon 8500 with regards to DirectX 8.1 it shouldn't be that hard to do. Hell even a GeForce2 is overkill for the vast majority of todays games anyway. If you're looking for a good video codec then look no further than XviD or in the future, Tarkin. (Or DivX 3.11 if your into super awsome but illegal codecs.)

MPEG4 is essientally a super snazy version of flash for high quality video. Think about it. It is trying to make many different types of interactive media available on a wide range of platforms simultaneously. It's an attampt to make a single proprietary format that does everything. This is exactly what flash does/is trying to do. True, MPEG4 actually has uses beyond annoying banner ads but it is essentialy the same sort of idea. Just as flash can be surpassed by XML/CSS/DHTML so MPEG4 can be surpassed by XviD/Tarkin and OGG. The reason is because these alternatives fufill the primary purpose of flash and MPEG4, interactive web content and video/audio compression respectively while being free, open, stable, and universal. Yes the flash/MPEG4 paradigm provides cleaner intigration and a nicer package from a development standpoint but when lisenceing costs are factored in the open alternatives win hands down.

I'm trying to find ways to stream video, without relying on the wine library. I am looking for video players that run on linux, ideally embedded linux with framebuffer (without XFree86).

XINE: I saw that Xine should do that, but when I run it, the open menu cannot open anything besides local files. here is the link for Xine's MMS plugin: MajorMMS

OGG TARKIN is not even started yet.
3iVX: anyone using their protocol/codec?
AVIFILE and MPLAYER - do you know if they can play back video streams aside from crazy ideas such as this asfrecorder-mplayer hack?
And any users of linux4TV codecs?
Thanks for any help - gigi

What about the legally traded mp3's and movies?

This is exactly why copy-protection can never succeed. What they want to do is stop you from redistributing a piece of information while still allowing you access to it.

This is impossible.

Even if they come up with a perfect audio copy-protection system which no-one can work out how to bypass, if I can hear the music, I can record it into any other format. All it takes is one person out of the 6 billion on this planet with a decent audio rig to turn their sooper-sekret audio file into an ogg which can then be redistributed through your favourite file sharing protocol (Freenet, Gnutella, FTP, HTTP, email...).

If you're thinking about quality, remember that the reason no-one's making a fuss about recordable analogue media (such as cassettes and videos) isn't because a first generation copy is noticably poorer than an original (it isn't). It's because a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy... is noticably poorer than the original. That's why there's no analogue peer-to-peer system.

Once you bypass the copy protection by making a (good quality) first-generation copy, any further redistribution is completely lossless. Compare this with ripping a CD to mp3: mp3 is a lossy format and you lose quality when you first encode (depending on how good your encoder is). Redistributing the encoded file, on the other hand, is completely lossless. That's why the various file sharing networks can work.

So, provided, as you say, the trading of unprotected mp3's or movies (or indeed, any file format) is still allowed, no copy protection scheme can work. The only way around this would be to prevent the sending of any user-generated information over the Internet.

So now the question is: Why are the various media groups trying to get legislation like this passed? Can it be that they are really that ignorant about their own business?

The World-Wide Web Consortium doesn't have any particular influence over the Motion Picture Experts Group, and video compression is such a minefield of patents that a free standard is probably impossible (though I wish luck to the Ogg Tarkin team).

Check out this.

Paranoia doesn't successfully rip Natalie Imbruglia's 'White Lillies Island', which is a CDS disc. The TOC is mangled in some interesting way as well as the data, so it can't recognise the last five tracks.

You are encouraged to complain

Complain? Why? The longer these greedy thieves continue there scratching and in-fighting the better. Let MPEG4 die a slow expensive death for all involved.

This will give time for competitors (Ogg Video) to prove themselves, without the "Intellectual Property" bull$hit.

No one is ever going to use Ogg anything except for uber-geek OSS zealots. I know I sure as hell am not converting 1000 MP3s into .oggs anytime soon. Nor am I going to use their slow-ass encoder to encode new music.

The standard response is "I won't use Ogg Vorbis, because it's not popular enough" or "I won't use Ogg Vorbis, because I have already so many MP3s". People seem to forget that they can have MP3 files and Ogg Vorbis files.

I remember when the best file format for photos available was GIF. That time when I digitalized a photo I stored it as a GIF file. But when I first heard about JPEG, I didn't say "it's nice but not popular". I didn't also say that "I have lots of GIFs and I don't want to convert them". I just started saving the new pictures in JPEG format, leaving the old GIFs alone. Now I have converted those old files to PNG, because of problems with Unisys, but I didn't have to do it, I had been using old GIFs and new JPEGs for many years.

We're not talking here about which audio format do you want to store your ripped CDs in. We're not even talking about which video codec do the corporations and artists want to use to publish their movies and streaming video (which by the way, is a matter of saving milions of dollars). I'm not talking about Ogg Vorbis vs. MPEG-1/2 audio layer 3 -- I'm talking about Ogg Tarkin vs. MPEG-4, in the terms of license and in the context of free software. Maybe read what I said:

Remember that even 1/100 of cent per codec makes it impossible to implement as free software. If you write a free software encoder and ten milions of people will start using it, will you just pay $2.5M to MPEG-4 guys, begging people to stop using it in more copies?

No one is ever going to use Ogg anything except for uber-geek OSS zealots. I know I sure as hell am not converting 1000 MP3s into .oggs anytime soon. Nor am I going to use their slow-ass encoder to encode new music.

The standard response is "I won't use Ogg Vorbis, because it's not popular enough" or "I won't use Ogg Vorbis, because I have already so many MP3s". People seem to forget that they can have MP3 files and Ogg Vorbis files.

I remember when the best file format for photos available was GIF. That time when I digitalized a photo I stored it as a GIF file. But when I first heard about JPEG, I didn't say "it's nice but not popular". I didn't also say that "I have lots of GIFs and I don't want to convert them". I just started saving the new pictures in JPEG format, leaving the old GIFs alone. Now I have converted those old files to PNG, because of problems with Unisys, but I didn't have to do it, I had been using old GIFs and new JPEGs for many years.

We're not talking here about which audio format do you want to store your ripped CDs in. We're not even talking about which video codec do the corporations and artists want to use to publish their movies and streaming video (which by the way, is a matter of saving milions of dollars). I'm not talking about Ogg Vorbis vs. MPEG-1/2 audio layer 3 -- I'm talking about Ogg Tarkin vs. MPEG-4, in the terms of license and in the context of free software. Maybe read what I said:

Remember that even 1/100 of cent per codec makes it impossible to implement as free software. If you write a free software encoder and ten milions of people will start using it, will you just pay $2.5M to MPEG-4 guys, begging people to stop using it in more copies?

I don't think Tarkin has a web site yet, but you can browse or join the mailing list from the Ogg site.

You know, I don't really have a problem with them charging $.25 per codec.

I think I'll just wait for Ogg Tarkin.

CDS works by purposely introducing errors into the audio data on the disc. Audio CD players are supposed to interpolate across the errors such that there is supposed to be no difference in sound quality. But CD-ROMs--being designed to read data CDs where every bit has to be correct--don't do this interpolation, and thus they see the disc as having lots of errors and crap out.

One of the answers on Paranoia FAQ nicely explains all of the problems with ripping CDs, and generally all of the differences between playing CD on audio CD player, and reading audio CD as a stream of bits with a computer. These differences are exactly what is addressed by all of those so called "copy-protection" techniques.

The "copy-protected" "CDs" have to be played by audio CD players (otherwise no one would buy them), but not ripped with computers (like it made any problem with copying them, even if it's possible to make CDs completely unplayable on CD-ROM drives... When will they learn?) so all they can do, is to address the differences between them. It's very good to know, how it really works.

The legend of characters on Paranoia progress meter gives a good introduction to what Paranoia can and what it can't fix (yet):

• A hyphen indicates that two blocks overlapped properly, but they were skewed (frame jitter). This case is completely corrected by Paranoia and is not a cause for concern.
• A plus indicates not only frame jitter, but an unreported, uncorrected loss of streaming in the middle of an atomic read operation. That is, the drive lost its place while reading data, and restarted in some random incorrect location without alerting the kernel. This case is also corrected by Paranoia.
• An 'e' indicates that a transport level SCSI or ATAPI error was caught and corrected. Paranoia will completely repair such an error without audible defects.
• An "X" indicates a scratch was caught and corrected. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• An asterisk indicates a scratch and jitter both occurred in this general area of the read. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• A ! indicates that a read error got through the stage one of error correction and was caught by stage two. Many '!' are a cause for concern; it means that the drive is making continuous silent errors that look identical on each re-read, a condition that can't always be detected. Although the presence of a '!' means the error was corrected, it also means that similar errors are probably passing by unnoticed. Upcoming releases of cdparanoia will address this issue.
• A V indicates a skip that could not be repaired or a sector totally obliterated on the medium (hard read error). A 'V' marker generally results in some audible defect in the sample.

CDS works by purposely introducing errors into the audio data on the disc. Audio CD players are supposed to interpolate across the errors such that there is supposed to be no difference in sound quality. But CD-ROMs--being designed to read data CDs where every bit has to be correct--don't do this interpolation, and thus they see the disc as having lots of errors and crap out.

One of the answers on Paranoia FAQ nicely explains all of the problems with ripping CDs, and generally all of the differences between playing CD on audio CD player, and reading audio CD as a stream of bits with a computer. These differences are exactly what is addressed by all of those so called "copy-protection" techniques.

The "copy-protected" "CDs" have to be played by audio CD players (otherwise no one would buy them), but not ripped with computers (like it made any problem with copying them, even if it's possible to make CDs completely unplayable on CD-ROM drives... When will they learn?) so all they can do, is to address the differences between them. It's very good to know, how it really works.

The legend of characters on Paranoia progress meter gives a good introduction to what Paranoia can and what it can't fix (yet):

• A hyphen indicates that two blocks overlapped properly, but they were skewed (frame jitter). This case is completely corrected by Paranoia and is not a cause for concern.
• A plus indicates not only frame jitter, but an unreported, uncorrected loss of streaming in the middle of an atomic read operation. That is, the drive lost its place while reading data, and restarted in some random incorrect location without alerting the kernel. This case is also corrected by Paranoia.
• An 'e' indicates that a transport level SCSI or ATAPI error was caught and corrected. Paranoia will completely repair such an error without audible defects.
• An "X" indicates a scratch was caught and corrected. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• An asterisk indicates a scratch and jitter both occurred in this general area of the read. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• A ! indicates that a read error got through the stage one of error correction and was caught by stage two. Many '!' are a cause for concern; it means that the drive is making continuous silent errors that look identical on each re-read, a condition that can't always be detected. Although the presence of a '!' means the error was corrected, it also means that similar errors are probably passing by unnoticed. Upcoming releases of cdparanoia will address this issue.
• A V indicates a skip that could not be repaired or a sector totally obliterated on the medium (hard read error). A 'V' marker generally results in some audible defect in the sample.

CDS works by purposely introducing errors into the audio data on the disc. Audio CD players are supposed to interpolate across the errors such that there is supposed to be no difference in sound quality. But CD-ROMs--being designed to read data CDs where every bit has to be correct--don't do this interpolation, and thus they see the disc as having lots of errors and crap out.

One of the answers on Paranoia FAQ nicely explains all of the problems with ripping CDs, and generally all of the differences between playing CD on audio CD player, and reading audio CD as a stream of bits with a computer. These differences are exactly what is addressed by all of those so called "copy-protection" techniques.

The "copy-protected" "CDs" have to be played by audio CD players (otherwise no one would buy them), but not ripped with computers (like it made any problem with copying them, even if it's possible to make CDs completely unplayable on CD-ROM drives... When will they learn?) so all they can do, is to address the differences between them. It's very good to know, how it really works.

The legend of characters on Paranoia progress meter gives a good introduction to what Paranoia can and what it can't fix (yet):

• A hyphen indicates that two blocks overlapped properly, but they were skewed (frame jitter). This case is completely corrected by Paranoia and is not a cause for concern.
• A plus indicates not only frame jitter, but an unreported, uncorrected loss of streaming in the middle of an atomic read operation. That is, the drive lost its place while reading data, and restarted in some random incorrect location without alerting the kernel. This case is also corrected by Paranoia.
• An 'e' indicates that a transport level SCSI or ATAPI error was caught and corrected. Paranoia will completely repair such an error without audible defects.
• An "X" indicates a scratch was caught and corrected. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• An asterisk indicates a scratch and jitter both occurred in this general area of the read. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• A ! indicates that a read error got through the stage one of error correction and was caught by stage two. Many '!' are a cause for concern; it means that the drive is making continuous silent errors that look identical on each re-read, a condition that can't always be detected. Although the presence of a '!' means the error was corrected, it also means that similar errors are probably passing by unnoticed. Upcoming releases of cdparanoia will address this issue.
• A V indicates a skip that could not be repaired or a sector totally obliterated on the medium (hard read error). A 'V' marker generally results in some audible defect in the sample.

CDS works by purposely introducing errors into the audio data on the disc. Audio CD players are supposed to interpolate across the errors such that there is supposed to be no difference in sound quality. But CD-ROMs--being designed to read data CDs where every bit has to be correct--don't do this interpolation, and thus they see the disc as having lots of errors and crap out.

One of the answers on Paranoia FAQ nicely explains all of the problems with ripping CDs, and generally all of the differences between playing CD on audio CD player, and reading audio CD as a stream of bits with a computer. These differences are exactly what is addressed by all of those so called "copy-protection" techniques.

The "copy-protected" "CDs" have to be played by audio CD players (otherwise no one would buy them), but not ripped with computers (like it made any problem with copying them, even if it's possible to make CDs completely unplayable on CD-ROM drives... When will they learn?) so all they can do, is to address the differences between them. It's very good to know, how it really works.

The legend of characters on Paranoia progress meter gives a good introduction to what Paranoia can and what it can't fix (yet):

• A hyphen indicates that two blocks overlapped properly, but they were skewed (frame jitter). This case is completely corrected by Paranoia and is not a cause for concern.
• A plus indicates not only frame jitter, but an unreported, uncorrected loss of streaming in the middle of an atomic read operation. That is, the drive lost its place while reading data, and restarted in some random incorrect location without alerting the kernel. This case is also corrected by Paranoia.
• An 'e' indicates that a transport level SCSI or ATAPI error was caught and corrected. Paranoia will completely repair such an error without audible defects.
• An "X" indicates a scratch was caught and corrected. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• An asterisk indicates a scratch and jitter both occurred in this general area of the read. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• A ! indicates that a read error got through the stage one of error correction and was caught by stage two. Many '!' are a cause for concern; it means that the drive is making continuous silent errors that look identical on each re-read, a condition that can't always be detected. Although the presence of a '!' means the error was corrected, it also means that similar errors are probably passing by unnoticed. Upcoming releases of cdparanoia will address this issue.
• A V indicates a skip that could not be repaired or a sector totally obliterated on the medium (hard read error). A 'V' marker generally results in some audible defect in the sample.

CDS works by purposely introducing errors into the audio data on the disc. Audio CD players are supposed to interpolate across the errors such that there is supposed to be no difference in sound quality. But CD-ROMs--being designed to read data CDs where every bit has to be correct--don't do this interpolation, and thus they see the disc as having lots of errors and crap out.

One of the answers on Paranoia FAQ nicely explains all of the problems with ripping CDs, and generally all of the differences between playing CD on audio CD player, and reading audio CD as a stream of bits with a computer. These differences are exactly what is addressed by all of those so called "copy-protection" techniques.

The "copy-protected" "CDs" have to be played by audio CD players (otherwise no one would buy them), but not ripped with computers (like it made any problem with copying them, even if it's possible to make CDs completely unplayable on CD-ROM drives... When will they learn?) so all they can do, is to address the differences between them. It's very good to know, how it really works.

The legend of characters on Paranoia progress meter gives a good introduction to what Paranoia can and what it can't fix (yet):

• A hyphen indicates that two blocks overlapped properly, but they were skewed (frame jitter). This case is completely corrected by Paranoia and is not a cause for concern.
• A plus indicates not only frame jitter, but an unreported, uncorrected loss of streaming in the middle of an atomic read operation. That is, the drive lost its place while reading data, and restarted in some random incorrect location without alerting the kernel. This case is also corrected by Paranoia.
• An 'e' indicates that a transport level SCSI or ATAPI error was caught and corrected. Paranoia will completely repair such an error without audible defects.
• An "X" indicates a scratch was caught and corrected. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• An asterisk indicates a scratch and jitter both occurred in this general area of the read. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• A ! indicates that a read error got through the stage one of error correction and was caught by stage two. Many '!' are a cause for concern; it means that the drive is making continuous silent errors that look identical on each re-read, a condition that can't always be detected. Although the presence of a '!' means the error was corrected, it also means that similar errors are probably passing by unnoticed. Upcoming releases of cdparanoia will address this issue.
• A V indicates a skip that could not be repaired or a sector totally obliterated on the medium (hard read error). A 'V' marker generally results in some audible defect in the sample.

CDS works by purposely introducing errors into the audio data on the disc. Audio CD players are supposed to interpolate across the errors such that there is supposed to be no difference in sound quality. But CD-ROMs--being designed to read data CDs where every bit has to be correct--don't do this interpolation, and thus they see the disc as having lots of errors and crap out.

One of the answers on Paranoia FAQ nicely explains all of the problems with ripping CDs, and generally all of the differences between playing CD on audio CD player, and reading audio CD as a stream of bits with a computer. These differences are exactly what is addressed by all of those so called "copy-protection" techniques.

The "copy-protected" "CDs" have to be played by audio CD players (otherwise no one would buy them), but not ripped with computers (like it made any problem with copying them, even if it's possible to make CDs completely unplayable on CD-ROM drives... When will they learn?) so all they can do, is to address the differences between them. It's very good to know, how it really works.

The legend of characters on Paranoia progress meter gives a good introduction to what Paranoia can and what it can't fix (yet):

• A hyphen indicates that two blocks overlapped properly, but they were skewed (frame jitter). This case is completely corrected by Paranoia and is not a cause for concern.
• A plus indicates not only frame jitter, but an unreported, uncorrected loss of streaming in the middle of an atomic read operation. That is, the drive lost its place while reading data, and restarted in some random incorrect location without alerting the kernel. This case is also corrected by Paranoia.
• An 'e' indicates that a transport level SCSI or ATAPI error was caught and corrected. Paranoia will completely repair such an error without audible defects.
• An "X" indicates a scratch was caught and corrected. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• An asterisk indicates a scratch and jitter both occurred in this general area of the read. Cdparanoia will interpolate over any missing/corrupt samples.
• A ! indicates that a read error got through the stage one of error correction and was caught by stage two. Many '!' are a cause for concern; it means that the drive is making continuous silent errors that look identical on each re-read, a condition that can't always be detected. Although the presence of a '!' means the error was corrected, it also means that similar errors are probably passing by unnoticed. Upcoming releases of cdparanoia will address this issue.
• A V indicates a skip that could not be repaired or a sector totally obliterated on the medium (hard read error). A 'V' marker generally results in some audible defect in the sample.

I don't pretend to be an expert on video codec's and the like, but I would like to believe that some sane individuals could develop an open video compression system and stop all of this idiocy.

You mean like Ogg Tarkin?

... and contribute to work on vorbis/tarkin instead ...

The "Vorbis" part of "Ogg Vorbis" actually refers specifically to audio. I can't comment on tarkin as I'm not familiar with it. You do bring up an excellent point though... Support the Ogg project! :-)

Well, if you're sick and tired of this, like I am, there's always Ogg Tarkin that could use an extra hand or two.

"However, Xiphophorus and the Ogg project (xiph.org) reserve the right to set the Ogg/Vorbis specification and certify specification compliance."

Have you seen any hardware player of Ogg Vorbis format?

I found very interesting a document from Jack Moffitt (of xiph.org fame,
one of the main Ogg developers and one of the Icecast Core Developers),
about some problems he had with the BK license when he was using it
for hosting Icecast:

"A Critique of the BitKeeper License"
http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/user/x/i/xiphmont/Pu blic/critique.html


You might also find interesting his post on the matter to the
"Icecast Developer Discussion List":

http://www.xiph.org/archives/icecast-dev/0067.html

I hope that he will post here his his experience using BK
in an Open/Free-source project...

Best regards

\\Uriel



P.S.: Yea, I know I'm karma whoring, but I'm sure many people will find this interesting,
specially in casse Jack dont post to this history latter

I found very interesting a document from Jack Moffitt (of xiph.org fame,
one of the main Ogg developers and one of the Icecast Core Developers),
about some problems he had with the BK license when he was using it
for hosting Icecast:

"A Critique of the BitKeeper License"
http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/user/x/i/xiphmont/Pu blic/critique.html


You might also find interesting his post on the matter to the
"Icecast Developer Discussion List":

http://www.xiph.org/archives/icecast-dev/0067.html

I hope that he will post here his his experience using BK
in an Open/Free-source project...

Best regards

\\Uriel



P.S.: Yea, I know I'm karma whoring, but I'm sure many people will find this interesting,
specially in casse Jack dont post to this history latter

How does the DivX compare to the first Ogg Tarkin ideas?

How does the DivX compare to the first Ogg Tarkin ideas?

One thing I haven't seen asked is how does this affect DivX? That is MPEG4, right?

But MPEG4 algorithms are independent of the particular implementation. If the licensing terms for MPEG4 do not permit licensing end-user products as free software, then open DivX as we know it will cease to exist in the United States, and some of the developers will move on to Ogg Tarkin.

Just a freely developed version

That doesn't matter. Unisys has publicly declared that it will not license the LZW patents to developers of free software: "For example, the typical Unisys license for standalone software does NOT permit copying, modification, resale, use on a server or in a network, or use for Internet/Intranet/Extranet or Web site operation."

I suppose this licensing descision will provide more impetus for the development of Ogg Tarkin.

Ogg Tarkin is in the works. Unfortunately, it's Not Here Yet, but if Vorbis is any indication, it will be good when it gets here.

Even lame supports ogg coding through libogg.

merkac

The real question should be - if he owned the CD why was he downloading the song?

Because what he owned wasn't even a CD.

Or because he has a Lite-On CD-ROM, which fucks up the last two seconds of a track when extracting audio or even when playing it normally. (I have one of those; I use my burner to rip CDs.)

Several game companies have already shipped games using Vorbis or are in progress with games that use it. See Brian Hook's email to vorbis-dev about Candy Cruncher. Papyrus Racing Games will also use it in their next product.

Dammit! That other guy posted while I was writing my post. BUT it turns out we were both wrong, at least about the Ogg part (I was right about Vorbis). Look. See?

Try grip. Configure it to rip to any format you want - all it needs is the path to the executable. It will do the freedb lookup and name the files in your favorite style too.

Since ogg vorbis is a free codec (as in beer; as in speech) this is really the best way to go. Note that US Linux users who rip to MP3 with free-as-in-beer software are probably in violation of one or more laws. Since XMMS plays OGG as well as MP3 you can mix and match MP3's from your favorite P2P community with OGG's of your own collection.

as you probably know there is a sparse few number of them available to download...

So what are you waiting for? Get oggenc and do your part!

-Renard

In fact, you're not limited by the Nyquist frequency when you are sampling non-uniformly, so it has some strengths in that respect. However, it has to be more to it than this for it to be news. Can anybody who understands this better than I provide any insights?

IMHO a home theater box that can't capture NTSC and encode to MPEG-2 (or maybe Ogg Tarkin) is going to be obsolete pretty quickly. Of course, I still have to swap quieter fans into my Athlon; right now it's entirely too loud even in a open-back shelf enclosure.

For chatting with developers real-time (but no guarantee when we'll be there), catch us on #vorbis at irc.openprojects.net.

Monty