Windows Media Player in Linux

mr lee writes "Today CodeWeavers released CrossOver plugin 1.1 which now supports Windows Media Player 6.4 under Linux. As much I would not like to see or support sites that use Windows Media shite, its still really nice to have this option. Not too mention kick ass QuickTime playing." Update: 02/27 18:30 GMT by H : I've actually been using this - it's done really really well. I'm planning on doing a fuller review soon, but it's very well done.

Comments

No native version?

[Ed Avis]

IIRC Windows Media Player was the one program where Microsoft released a native Linux version. It didn't last long though.

Re:No native version?

[HMC CS Major]

It's modded (+3, funny) as I type, but it really is true ...

See http://www.vnunet.com/News/105831 and http://content.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19981009S 0021 for details.

Re:No native version?

[nexex]

there is a solaris version...but its pretty buggy :)

Re:No native version?

[Mike Hicks]

Yeah, back when it was known as the NetShow player (this was back in 1997 or 1998). It was released shortly after Microsoft acquired another company that had made a cross-platform player. MS had said that they would release another version, but it never happened.

I used it a few times, mostly to play the .asf video of Win98 crashing for Bill Gates at a computer conference..

Re:No native version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did either the Linux versions or does this crossover patch allow for the spoofed mp3 vulnerability?

Re:No native version?

[MaxVlast]

I trust that any problems are due to "instability in the underlying operating system software" or some such. Just check the Microsoft documentation!

Re:No native version?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I used it a few times, mostly to play the .asf video of Win98 crashing"

Then you were probably the only person for which that thing didn't immediately dump core.

Re:No native version?

[BlowCat]

I tried the Linux version back in 1998. It didn't support MP3 at all.

The crossover plugin should probably emulate all bugs of the software it runs :-)

Re:No native version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, at least you get a version. Those of us using GNU/Linux on PPC don't seem to have the opportunity to join this fun. Oh well, this is why I generally don't support closed-source, proprietary projects. If I wanted a proprietary machine, why would I even run GNU/Linux? I may as well get a Mac or a Windows machine.

Re:No native version?

[Anonymous Coward]

yep, i remember that. downloaded it and it did nothing. IIRC it was just a small binary which just crashed or hung. I figured at the time it was just some sort of joke. I never heard of anyone actually getting it to work.

Re:No native version?

[minus_273]

no ms never released a Linux version, it was a stitically compiled binary of the unix netsho player which was bought by MS.. Netshow was the predecessor to media player it was not windows media player.
it only playes old file formats as well.. .

Re:No native version?

[Cheetah86]

Now we know it is a genuine Microsoft product!

Re:No native version?

[Anonymous Coward]

i use all kinds of proprietary software. although it isn't my motivation, i enjoy the fact that my support makes it more difficult for those running free (as in "freedom is slavery") software.

Re:No native version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Solaris has one, native. And ie, and outlook. Not that I use them - hell no. Listen, why do you lot dig Linux? It's just so fucking gay. Linux hackers can't drink as much beer as a Solaris hacker, or the *BSD brethren. Do yourselves all a favour, and get down the local boozer, kane 15 pints, *then* think about what i've said. There really isn't alot that beer cannot do.

dsw.

Is this good?

[Publicus]

It probably won't make any difference, but doesn't this, in a way, legitimize the wma format?

Re:Is this good?

[MrFredBloggs]

Its probably all Linux needs to make it susceptable to a SSSCA legal attack!

Re:Is this good?

[grytpype]

Slashtard bingo!

Re:Is this good?

[Sloppy]

No, because this is only x86 Linux software. It doesn't run on every processor and every OS under the sun. Therefore, the only way the wms format could become legitimate, would be if it were opened and standardized and patent-free.

x86 Linux ain't what it's all about dude, even if that's what you happen to run today.

The results of smoking crack

[Reality Master 101]

Windows media player "shite"? "Kick ass" Quicktime?

I don't know about this guy's universe, but in mine, Windows Media Player works great, but Quicktime under windows is a giant, stinking, smelly, steaming, smoking, pile of dog-doo. It constantly crashes, and the user interface is probably the worst ever designed.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[dnoyeb]

Your world is off its axis. Quicktime creates much nicer videos with nicer quality in less time in my experience than WMP. Quicktime lets you scrub the video and actually see what your scrubbing whereas WMP does not allow this.

QT does not crash on my computer. Of course I expect WMP not to crash...

Re:The results of smoking crack

[mselby]

I quite agree.

CmdrTaco is leaving more and more objectivity behind.

It's really pathetic, like watching someone get further and further into a cult until you just ignore their opinion on any old "shite" completely.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about this guy's universe
but in mine,... under windows...
It constantly crashes...probably the worst ever designed.

Enough Said....

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Reality Master 101]

Apparently you're talking about the encoder. I'm talking about the player.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Anonymous Coward]

Be very very careful saying that. I said exactly the same thing about QT player not more than a week ago, got modded down as Flamebait & Troll. Then I got set upon by the QT zealot faction who flamed me right down to my asbestos socks. I will repeat this again for anyone who cares to listen - QT as a format may be lovely, QT the player (in windows anyway) is horrific. The interface is terrible, it's slow, generally I wish I didn't have to use it :(

Posting as AC for obvious reasons!

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Bilestoad]

Most people wait until it's time to post a comment until they trot out the usual anti-Microsoft karma whoring. Congratulations "mr lee", for lowering Slashdot pandering to a new level.

Windows Media Player does work just fine. Quicktime is the app that will attempt to take over associations and bug you with "upgrade now?" reminders every time you run it.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess, you don't run a Macintosh. Of course it doesn't run as good on Windows -- Apple had to port much code to even get it to work. The fact of the matter is that it is YOU that is smoking crack because QuickTime is a more complete solution that provides the most flexibility for content creators. The interface for the player, while you may have some shred of a point, is moot due to the quantities of lame UI examples coming from the Windows UI community. At least Apple thinks about UI. The only people that are worse are the *nix camp (although there are some people even there that have multiple clues).

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Reality Master 101]

The fact of the matter is that it is YOU that is smoking crack because QuickTime is a more complete solution that provides the most flexibility for content creators.

And who cares how good the content creation software is if no one can view the bloody video? And no, people with Macintoshes don't count.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[dark_panda]

To be fair, taco didn't say that stuff, it was the person who submitted the article, "mr lee". Don't shoot the messanger.

J

Re:The results of smoking crack

[RMSIsAnIdiot]

Too bad Windows Media Player on Mac runs just as good as it does on Windows...

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Anonymous Coward]

Rob (aka CmdrTaco) ,

Your bad spelling (ie: Messanger) is obvious, regardless of what name you use. Please stop pretending to be normal users, and just admit that you should have found a more reasonable way to "inform" us of this "development".

Thanks,
- Anomymous Coward.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Anonymous Coward]

QuickTime on Windows actually installs more smoothly on a PC than on a Mac (no restart).

I have also found QT playback on a half dozen VERY different PC's I've done very aggressive testing with to be roughly on par with comparably speedy Macs.

Windows Media (aside from a litany of REALLY bad UI problems and extremely limited export/import support in MS's encoding tools) has reasonably nice low bitrate video and audio quality.

This, and fast encode performance are the *ONLY* redeeming qualities of WiMP.

Windows Media as a media architecture is vastly inferior to both QuickTime and Real (No Flash, no real VR, limited intra-media interactivity, no support for third party components, limited file format support, no movie to movie communcation, etc. etc.

Windows Media is also (as noted earlier) a privacy problem.

Unless we want to see online streaming media go the way of the Netscape, essentially killed by MS, we owe it to ourselves to favor consuming and delivering in as many competing alternatives as possible including closed systems like QT and Real.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[laserjet]

This is slashdot. It has always been like this. I consider myself very lucky when the LINKS work in an article, let alone if the article is actually accurate. I am ver, VERY lucky if there are no mispellings in the headlines.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[raju1kabir]

There is no difference between the messenger who suggests the article and the editor who prints/publishes it.

That is a truly ignorant statement.

Fora such as newspaper editorial pages specifically solicit and print divergent points of view in order to provide readers with a range of perspectives beyond those of the staff.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[laserjet]

I'm not trolling, but I wish WiMP worked as good under Mac OSX as it does in 'Doze. I have an iBook 500MHz G3, and the videos are often choppy when I play high bit rate videos (1000kbps+). Quicktime plays the same high quality video just fine. I make my own videos and like the compression of windows media format though, seems to offer really good quality for file size.

but i don't use it much because it proprietary.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[dinivin]

And who cares how good the content creation software is if no one can view the bloody video?

Except that nearly everyone can view Quicktime videos. So what, exactly, is your point?

Dinivin

Re:The results of smoking crack

[JanusFury]

Well, I agree for the most part, but you have to agree that RealPlayer sucks ass. RealPlayer has low framerates, crashes randomly, and can't seek through a partially downloaded media file. All in all, lame. And each successive version of realplayer gets bigger and bigger. I think RP8 was what, 14mb?

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Decimal]

I agree with you, but don't you think you could have said it a bit more elequently? Perhaps you wouldn't be considered flamebait, and might even be taken seriously if you learn to refrain from using phrases like "giant, stinking, smelly, steaming, smoking pile of dog-doo."

I work in a Community College computer lab, (The Windows half, the other half of the college is Apple-only) and I absolutely hate how QuickTime forces itself into the Control Panel, crams itself into the starting programs list and consistantly begs you to upgrade to the pro version every time you open a file with it. I admit that I've never liked the company, but it's not bringing itself into any better standing with non-Apple fans with this kind of behavior. So far only RealPlayer and MSN messenger have managed to top its annoyance-factor.

Try Irfanview. It's small, it's unobtrusive, it's fast and it's freeware. There are plugins for many different media types. If you like it, be sure to thank the author for all of his hard work!

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Reality Master 101]

I agree with you, but don't you think you could have said it a bit more elequently?

Heh, yes I could have. But that wouldn't make my post any more true, because the QuickTime player under Windows is a truly terrible piece of software.

Don't you think stating it the way I did is much more entertaining? I thought all the adjectives were pretty amusing, myself (I particularly liked the "smoking" part -- really brings the image into your mind, doesn't it?). But the biggest reason is that Mac fans are so thin-skinned that it's funny to watch them go into convulsions at any criticism of Apple, particularly when it's so true in this case.

I was pretty sure I would end up getting marked down (Apple people have notoriously little sense of humor), but heck, I've got Karma to spare.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[laserjet]

Haha. Excellent troll. I like how you got right to the point.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[khuber]

>This is a news site.

It's usually the linked page that's the news, not the comment the submitter included.

I don't recall slashdot ever not having stupid editorial jabs tacked onto news stories.

-Kevin

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Anonymous Coward]

QT player on Windows has the effect of writing what looks like television snow to all the pushable widgets and menu bars. It's quite bizarre.

Re:The results of smoking crack

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and we'll just ignore the fact that you've got
the world's biggest hard-on for MS products. Nah,
no bias there at all...

Karma Whoring

[RoboTroll]

Look around you, folks. How many of you have sigs that refer to "karma", "ACs," getting "modded up" and the like? Has Slashdot become your hermetically sealed environment? Is it the filter through which you perceive reality? Has Slashdot become an empty game where you regurgitate earlier posts to get 'karma'?

Some of you might be surprised to learn that this "karma" has no value whatsoever!!! When Slashdot goes under (and don't worry, it will) you won't be able to exchange that "karma" for Denny's coupons, anime DVDs, or anything worth a shit!!!

And don't think there's any spiritual value either! Slashdot "karma" won't help you break the cycle of reincarnation, it won't get you "high", and it won't even win you friends at Magic: The Gathering tournaments!

Fellow Slashdotter, you have been deceived!!! You will not achieve immortality by posting "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of this!" or "Linux is really good for the desktop!" The only way you'll ever be remembered when this decrepit weblog tumbles into nothingness is to post something really FUCKED UP!!! I can't stress this enough!!!

Don't waste your time chasing the "karma" cap! Don't whine about your stories not being published when you know that the news on this site is randomly chosen by monkeys!!!The only way you'll be remembered long after CmdrTaco returns to his old position as shift leader at Pizza Hut is by posting ABSOLUTE FREAKING MADNESS!!! Do it now!!! Do it often!!! And karma be damned!!!
Have you ever seen the back of a twenty-dollar bill...ON WEED?

From the annals of the Troll Library .

Re:Karma Whoring

[zangdesign]

O.K., I'll bite.

So what are you trying to say?

Re:Karma Whoring

[The_dev0]

MOD PARENT UP!!!

All the swearing in stories

[Steveftoth]

Was mr lee the only one who submitted this story? Or was his the one with the most profanity in the story? I expect to see profane comments, not stories. /. allows passive agressive statements twords companies that are opposed to linux, but can you please keep the swearing out of the stories?

This cant hurt

[Ween]

I for one like this. Now I can listen to webcasts that are in windows media only format. Since websites wont give me a choice, Im glad someone has given me the software to make up for it.

Codecs

[brad3378]

I want to see if somebody can get this to download the latest codecs from Microsoft servers

Re:Codecs

[Mordain]

If i remember correctly that may be hard to do. Media player these days has a unique ID built in that MS and maybe others use to track what you listen/watch. While you can disable this Id from being sent to the websites you download from, it is entirely possible that a unique ID is required to connect to MS for codecs.

This is just conjecture of course.

Re:Codecs

[HeUnique]

So far - from my tests - it played every movie that Windows Media player can play in standard windows - and yes, the player downloads the codec from microsoft site and installs it..

Re:Codecs

[Anonymous Coward]

avifile can use win32 .dll

Re:Codecs

[fferreres]

My Windows friend is always asking me "Hey Fede could you try and see if this .avi works? It has no sound on WMP although it downloaded some codec!".

...I mount the SMB...

Fede: $ mplayer file.avi
...
"Fede: Yep, the file's fine, works great"
"Pato: damn...i tought so. I'll switch to Linux some day!"

He also askes me to check partially downloaded files (ie: couldn't download 100% of it). I think mplayer rebuilds the indexes while some WMP codecs do not, so i can play them and WMP cannot.

Re:Codecs

[Trinn]

Actually this ID can be turned off and is not required for the downloading of codecs. It has been covered before.

uhh

[nomadic]

As much I would not like to see or support sites that use Windows Media shite, its still really nice to have this option.

Is that me or are the two clauses in that section contradictory? You don't want to support, or even see sites that use windows media player, but you still think it's "really nice" to have it...

Way to go

[Sinjun]

As much I would not like to see or support sites that use Windows Media shite

Way to go there buddy. Kick them for using the most widely supported media format out there. How dare they ensure that the largest number of people can view their stuff!?

Re:Way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought books were the most widely supported media format out there. As for digital video, I believe that MPEG streams are the most widely supported format out there. My DVD player can play them, but it can't play Windows Media.

Re:Way to go

[Gleef]

Sinjun trolls:

Way to go there buddy. Kick them for using the most widely supported media format out there. How dare they ensure that the largest number of people can view their stuff!?

Um, the MPEG-2 Video Codec works in Windows Media Player, Real Player, Quicktime Viewer, DVD Players, VCD Players, and dozens of Free Software programs on pretty much any platform with decent processor speed and video specifications. It produces good quality video in a reasonable file size as well, and lets the producer decide just how much to compress the video. By any sane measure, it is the "most widely supported [video] media format out there".

Calling a Windows-only media format that just one program can view "the most widely supported" is either naively ill-informed or a deliberate lie.

Re:Way to go

[fferreres]

What you mean is that Microsoft has the right to enforce their Monopoly into the musiv and video markets? I mean, why not force Microsoft to use an open standard? Why everyone, always have to comply with stuff that will lock everyone's future?

You are talking about a consecuence, not a cause. The problem is the cause. WHY DO WE ALLOW MS TO ENFORCE MONOPOLIES OVER THEIR USERS?

Haven't got a clue as why, expect that people ruling markets are ineed getting a lot of money. Easier to collect from 1 single company!

It's just my opinion though...

Re:Way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

Way to go there buddy. Kick him for not wanting to use a proprietary bullshit format that anyone not using win32 has to bend over backwards to use. How dare he try to support open standards that ensure that the largest number of people can view their stuff.

Re:Way to go

[damiam]

Windows-only media format

Calling .asf a "Windows-only media format" is either naively ill-informed or a deliberate lie.

Re:Way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

So you are splitting a hair between "Windows-only media format" and "Windows Media-only Format". Spare us.

Re:Way to go

[Gleef]

My "Windows-only" characterization was ill-informed, I was unaware that Windows Media Player was being distributed for the Macintosh. That still doesn't change the fact that there is better support for MPEG-2 than ASF on the Mac (support is included with the OS), and MPEG-2 support on Windows is as good as ASF support. To my knowledge there is no support for ASF on any platform other than Windows and Macintosh.

Yes, MPlayer and Xine are capable of playing ASF files on many platforms, but as far as I know they are only able to do this by using codec libraries written for Windows. Furthermore, this use of these codecs is generally in violation of software EULA's. I do not call this support.

My point stands without that that single inaccurate phrase. Replace it with "Windows-centric media format", or "Windows Media only format" as the AC suggested.

Re:Way to go

[zachdms]

There's also a(n official) Solaris Windows Media player here (or so).

what about Mplayer

[steve.m]

which supports Win32 Codecs including Quicktime MOV, etc. see Here.

Re:what about Mplayer

[HeUnique]

1. It still doesn't fully supports ASX files (yes, even with the latest CVS - I tried one from yesterday).

2. It doesn't provide you with any embedding to your browser. Go ahead and hack it to make mplayer GUI appear inside Mozilla/Konqueror on most of the sites (now.com, yahoo.com, news.com) - good luck!

Re:what about Mplayer

[kraf]

From the mplayerhq.hu website:
(http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/formats.ht ml#2.1.1.4 )

"Codecs: any codecs allowed, both CBR and VBR. Note: most new mov files use Sorenson video and QDesign Music audio. These formats are completely secret, and only Apple's quicktime player is able to play these files (on win/mac only)."

So it basically doesn't support MOV except some old stuff.

Re:what about Mplayer

[Geekboy(Wizard)]

Mplayer is sweet, I use it as my only (video) player on my FreeBSD box.

However, while it does support Quicktime, almost all of the newly released QT movies are compressed with Sorenson (sp?) codec, which is closed source, and Apple licenses it from another company. Therefore, unless Apple, and Sorenson (sp?) both give permission (read: unlikely), you won't find a legal open-source player. Apple (and others) can port the app to different platforms, and others still can make a shell for the application (read: what Codeweavers did), but you still don't get the benifits of open-source programmers optimizing the heck out of the program.

Re:what about Mplayer

[fferreres]

MOVs are not playing in my mplayer (it'scompiled in and everything else works fine). I get a black background and no sound...

Re:what about Mplayer

[Anonymous Coward]

Mplayer is great, but it does NOT support the mms (ms media streaming) protocol.

Re:what about Mplayer

[Eccles]

Therefore, unless Apple, and Sorenson (sp?) both give permission (read: unlikely), you won't find a legal open-source player.

Is the codec such that you can download it as a distinct item with a known interface? If so, even if it couldn't be distributed with an open-source player, the codec could be hooked into that player by the person using the player.

Re:what about Mplayer

[minus_273]

xine works just as well and supports tons of formats, in addition, xine does not have a crzy licence where you cannot distribute abinary... xine.sourceforge.net
that is the answer to your prayers

Re:what about Mplayer

[Anonymous Coward]

it's to horribly entangled with quicktime itself to let you do such a thing.

however, one of mplayers lead programmers is having a look at it. He has not been enormously succesfull at it however...

Re:what about Mplayer

[Nailer]

which supports Win32 Codecs including Quicktime MOV, etc. see Here [mplayerhq.hu].

Comparing the two:

• MPlayer doesn't work within browsers.
  
• Neither does it, to my knowledge, using 6.0, play Sorenson Quicktime, which constitutes 99% of Quicktime on the web
  
• MPlayer does not, and according to its developers, will not ever play audio files
  
• Crossover has a nicer plugin config app and documentation that's more pleasant to its users.
  
• Crossovr does many other things MPlayer doesn't - eg, QuicktimeVR, Ipix, Shockwave, etc.
  
• Neither product is Open Source, as neither satisfies condition 2 of the Open Source Definition, despite the mplayer folk telling people it is. I get the same level of freedom with both apps, and the license fee for Crossover is small. At least with Codeweavers, licensing cash goes towards Alexandre Julliard and the other founders of the Wine project who give a lot back to the Open Source community.
  

Re:what about Mplayer

[blakestah]

However, while it does support Quicktime, almost all of the newly released QT movies are compressed with Sorenson (sp?) codec, which is closed source, and Apple licenses it from another company. Therefore, unless Apple, and Sorenson (sp?) both give permission (read: unlikely), you won't find a legal open-source player. Apple (and others) can port the app to different platforms, and others still can make a shell for the application (read: what Codeweavers did), but you still don't get the benifits of open-source programmers optimizing the heck out of the program.

I can see your argument.

However, Windows Media Video 7 and 8 codecs are patented. They are used to compress some wmv and asf files. Unless Microsoft gives you permission, you cannot decompress those files.

But Mplayer does this with impunity using Windows DLLs !

The real issue here, I think, it that Mplayer hackers don't know the APIs used by Quicktime, whereas they have reverse engineered the ones in Windows Media Player.

Really, I could CARE LESS whether Windows Media Player exists for linux. Mplayer does an INCREDIBLY good job. But it needs to get the hooks for the API Quicktime uses for its codecs, because there is an awful lot of Sorenson codec Quicktime animation out there.

Re:what about Mplayer

[Anonymous Coward]

Though the source itself is closed, the Quicktime API is exhaustively documented. It may not be "free-as-in-speech" software, but the APIs are completely exposed.

I've long wondered why someone didn't exploit that and "hijack" one of the proprietary codecs from QT for Windows (e.g., Sorenson) third-party x86 tools. It wouldn't be a free ride by any stretch, but this "encapsulation" approach would seem doable and the result would be entirely legal. I seem to recall past efforts along those lines, but they don't seem to have survived. Does anyone know of current projects along those lines?

Re:what about Mplayer

[ksorim]

MPlayer doesn't work within browsers.

Try plugger

MPlayer does not, and according to its developers, will not ever play audio files

Try the latest CVS version of MPlayer. It has support for audio only files.

Re:what about Mplayer

[ksorim]

1. It still doesn't fully supports ASX files (yes, even with the latest CVS - I tried one from yesterday).

Why don't you report it as a bug?

Noooo..

[theeds]

Ahh run away Windows invades the gaming consoles now it invades linux, run run run. Now linux will have unexpected crashes with out kernal recompiles w00t.

Re:Noooo..

[ApheX]

Funny - someone says Windows rocks and anything else sucks - and its considered flamebait.

Yet someone makes an ignorant comment about Windows invading gaming consoles (Xbox - which "OH MY GOD" is made by Microsoft so jeez - what OS SHOULD they have used? Or the Dreamcast which ran WinCE - but not for games). Its obvious troll/flamebait but hey - thats OK.

Cant we have -1 (Ignorant)?

Speaking of players -- real.com

[Anonymous Coward]

Any way of getting whatever real player there is without having to register an email address? My favorite email address to register under, "abuse@aol.com", is already taken.

Hate to load that flakey, crashes-constantly piece of crap RealPlayer, but the BBC hasn't discovered Quicktime or MPEG.

Re:Speaking of players -- real.com

[SweetAndSourJesus]

try root@real.com.

Their sysadmin must love it. Also, since foo.com is a squatter page, there's no harm in bar@foo.com.

Re:Speaking of players -- real.com

[C_nemo]

actually i (ab)use(hahhaha!) abuse@aol.com when i order movie tickets online, they send all kinds of crap. anyone tried to order 30-40 movie tickets on a film festival only to have your inbox severly clogged

----

Re:Speaking of players -- real.com

[homer_ca]

I use unsubscribe@real.com

Re:Speaking of players -- real.com

[Anonymous Coward]

Mine is marketing@real.com, figuring that will expand into a very large group of people who love spam.

Nice

[jtdennis]

Windows Media Player 6.4 is more than just for playing the WM* formats. It's the only player I use for everything but RealMedia and Quicktime under Windows. Any WiMP after 6.4 is trash though IMHO.

Re:Nice

[Anonymous Coward]

Spot on my friend. Now if only Real & Apple would get off their collective asses and allow others to license their codecs so we could bin their crappy players.

Re:Nice

[boxcarjoe]

i find zoomplayer a much better player than winmp
it playes movies and music without all the gay shit that win mp has buy i still use winamp for music, zoomplayer works great for video, its un bloated and you can get plugins

How long before...

[shaldannon]

Microsoft goes and changes the format and breaks the plugin? Oh...and does the plugin let WMP do it's little data collection tricks?

Re:How long before...

[a3d0a3m]

Just for your information...
Windows Media Player doesn't do any "data collection tricks," the slashdot story about that was FUD. All WMP does is download cddb info for cds and DVD info from another db and keep a file on your computer with a record [ie cache] of all of the CD/DVDs you have previously inserted. While both databases use a unique identifier, it has been pointed out by me in this comment that CDDB has a privacy policy that precludes them from releasing data about your listening habits. WMP is a harmless piece of useful software, and personally, I am happy to see it on the Linux platform.

Adam

Re:How long before...

[Anonymous Coward]

They aren't connecting to CDDB when you play a DVD, they are connecting to a Microsoft server.

And sending a unique ID.

One that can be tied to a passport account.

Re:How long before...

[Graspee_Leemoor]

Ahahhaha, but things like asf files and (I think) avis too can contain weblinks which Media Player attempts to open.

Does anyone know whether these have to be statically in the file or if they can contain data dynamically taken from your machine? Also, which movie formats allow this?

I was just thinking then that maybe the web pages I have seen launched were in the meta-data of the file, but then I could swear I've seen a browser open when I was exactly half way through an anime once.

graspee

Re:How long before...

[Anonymous Coward]

> While both databases use a unique identifier, it has been pointed out by me in this comment [slashdot.org] that CDDB has a privacy policy that precludes them from releasing data about your listening habits.

..and they would never, ever break that policy, unlike other companies with such policies.

..unless, of course, there was enough money in it.

Too late

[jandrese]

Mplayer already does pretty much everything Windows Media Player can do, and it's native to Linux. The Quicktime support mentioned in the writeup is a red herring, Windows Media Player (IIRC) still does not support Sorenson Quicktimes, making it no better than xanim at playing modern .mov files.

Re:Too late

[Anonymous Coward]

The QuickTime support mentioned in the story referred to the fact that CrossOver will let you run Apple's QuickTime 5 Player. You can even use the QuickTime plugin in your browser, be it Netscape, Mozilla, Konqueror, Galeon, SkipStone or Opera.
And because this is the original Apple QuickTime player, it does support Sorenson movies.

Btw, the CrossOver home page is there:
http://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover/
and CrossOver supports many other plugins (Shockwave, Word/Excel/PowerPoint viewers, Trillian, etc.):
http://www.codeweavers.com/support/crossover/suppo rted_plugins.php

Re:Too late

[Dixie_Flatline]

In fact, I find it does things BETTER. I've actually found myself booting into Linux to watch movies on occasion. I've got a powerbook, so that takes care of my Quicktime needs.

Use mplayer. It's at version 0.60, and it's a pretty superior product.

Re:Too late

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but unfortunately Mplayer doesn't support the widely used .wma format.

Re:Too late

[bhsx]

The crossover plugin installs Apple's Quicktime Player by default on the first install. That's what the comment about QT is about. This right up is about www.codeweavers.com crossover plugin, a fantastic product which supports embedding plugins into Netscape/Mozilla and Konqueror in Linux. The plugins now supported are Wordviewer, ExcelViewer, PowerPointViewer, Adobe Acrobat Reader, Apple QuickTime Player, Shockwave(not just Flash), EFax, and apparently now even WMP. This thing just plain rocks. I've yet to see MPlayer embedded in N/M/K, even trying with plugger.

Re:Too late

[rseuhs]

Windows Media Player (IIRC) still does not support Sorenson Quicktimes, making it no better than xanim at playing modern .mov files.

Correct, but Apple's Quicktime player which is supported by crossover (and downloaded and installed automagically) does.

to be expected...

[DickPhallus]

This is typical:

Ooo... DRM is bad! Die DRM

Hey! I can use windows media under linux now. yay!

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Hey

[Starship Trooper]

Not to scare you guys (no web site, just a mailing list?), but - did any of you ask Microsoft about this before you wrote it?

I'm not implying that you did anything wrong, but in today's insane world, the DMCA can pretty much be wielded like a baseball bat. People like CNN who use WMP to distribute their advertisements before their content in a streaming manner expect their ads to be preserved. If you've added an extra functionality in here, or any method whatsoever to bypass ads, save streaming video, or otherwise do anything but sit in your chair and watch what they send you, you might get hit by the eager-beaver Microsoft Legal Team. In fact, just making this functionality user modifiable (i.e., open source) might be enough for you to become a "circumvention device".

Care to comment?

Re:Hey

[Anonymous Coward]

>>Care to comment?

read what this plugin ACTUALLY does and get a clue before posting.

It's not a player that reads windows media files..... it lets you RUN WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER on linux. Therefore it is exactly the same player.

mod this crap down.

Re:Hey

[Starship Trooper]

read what this plugin ACTUALLY does and get a clue before posting

Just because they didn't reverse engineer the plugins doesn't mean that by bridging them they can't grant extra functionality. Remember, under the DMCA, the extent of circumvention is loosely defined. If you write a wrapper that allows a user to capture or slow the output of streaming video, you're circumventing.

Sorry that you were confused.

Re:Hey

[RMSIsAnIdiot]

Care to comment?

Yeah, you're an idiot.

Ads more than likely come in a playlist, where they are displayed as a clip before the actual media.

Ads pay for them to actually stream media for you. If everyone was like smelly GNU hippies are and tried to subvert the content provider by disabling their ads, the content being provided would cease to exist, because there's no one to pay for their bandwidth.

Welcome to Capitalism, moron.

Re:Hey

[zCyl]

any method whatsoever to bypass ads ... might be enough for you to become a "circumvention device".

Have you heard of VCR's?

Re:Hey

[sporty]

Example: Gamespot.com

Nice site. Great previews. Their streaming media is .asf based. Their ads are a seperate clip in the beginning of the movie you wish to watch.

You can easily click the "next track button", same button like a cd player, to skip it completely. The Ad circumvention is already there.

Mind you, just because something is OSS, doesn't mean its against capitalism. All it means is that the code can be looked at. People make money off of OSS, i.e. LimeWire (I don't particularly like it) or RedHat. So dont' compare apples (OSS) and oranges (Capitalism). They affect each other but aren't qualifications of the same base idea: software distribution and politics.

Re:Hey

[RMSIsAnIdiot]

I wasn't directing it at OSS, I was directing it at him.

Re:Hey

[Starship Trooper]

Ads more than likely come in a playlist, where they are displayed as a clip before the actual media.

Ads pay for them to actually stream media for you. If everyone was like smelly GNU hippies are and tried to subvert the content provider by disabling their ads, the content being provided would cease to exist, because there's no one to pay for their bandwidth.

I agree with this completely. I fail to see why you're angry at me. I was warning these people that if they were attempting to steal content, then they might find themselves in hot water.

You're mighty uptighty...

Re:Hey

[trayl]

"Ads more than likely come in a playlist, where they are displayed as a clip before the actual media."

Not anymore.
The latest windows media servers perform server side ad-insertion (profiled and targeted of course).

Re:Hey

[RMSIsAnIdiot]

Regardless. Commercials pay for your TV networks. Why circumvent them? They are there to pay for the content you are watching for FREE. Life doesn't always work like PBS or Open Source.

Re:Hey

[Pussy Is Money]

In case you failed to notice, GNU isn't about subverting property. It's about creating our own.

Re:Hey

[RMSIsAnIdiot]

Well, since you so adamantly think that 'pussy is money,' and since GNU will never get you any money... then, by analogy... aw, nevermind.

Re:Hey

[Anonymous Coward]

>> any method whatsoever to bypass ads ... might be enough for you to become a "circumvention device".
> Have you heard of VCR's?

Grandfathered; pre-DMCA. Devices/software made nowadays are in a different legal era.

Re:Hey

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's bad to read WM* files with anything else but WMP, wouldn't it then also be bad to play M$powepoint slides with staroffice, edit M$Word-files using vi, implement VB-script support in netscape, etc...?

I don't see the problem.

Re:Hey

[Pussy Is Money]

Hm? Oh. I see. Well. Never mind, indeed.

great! (now i want to (get rid of) my real1 playr)

[rmstar]

Hey I think it's great. Media files should not be tied to an operating system.

Now we need something that is able to play realmedia stuff.

rmstar

News Flash

[Doktor Memory]

The use or non-use of WMA/WMV by less than one percent of the web-browsing market has exactly zero bearing on the "legitimacy" of the format. Please see a doctor about these delusions of grandeur.

Re:News Flash

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be thinking of Ogg Vorbis, which has far less than 1% of any mainstream market.

WMV, otoh, apart from already having worked in Linux via mplayer for many moons, possesses quite possibly a majority of the web browsing video market. Should it not, then I would assume that it's second only to RealMedia.

Please purchase yourself a clue. Thank you. :)

Re:News Flash

[Doktor Memory]

You must be thinking of Ogg Vorbis, which has far less than 1% of any mainstream market. WMV, otoh, apart from already having worked in Linux via mplayer [mplayerhq.hu] for many moons, possesses quite possibly a majority of the web browsing video market. Should it not, then I would assume that it's second only to RealMedia. Please purchase yourself a clue. Thank you. :)

I was referring to Linux's share of the web browsing market. Please try to read more carefully next time.

Re:News Flash

[Com2Kid]

I have seen all of four or five WMV files on the web, most people perfer to go with ASF or AVI files (or AVI to ASF converters. ^_^ ) due to the increased flexability that those format offer.

(namely more third party products. MS should know by now that if they want something to become popular that they should open up development to third parties).

Sure some major news sites may use WMV, but, uh, I have a TV set for that type of thing. :)

Almost all files I see on the web are either AVI or if they are streaming ASF or (eeew) RM.

Re:News Flash

[Publicus]

The good doktor:
The use or non-use of WMA/WMV by less than one percent of the web-browsing market has exactly zero bearing on the "legitimacy" of the format. Please see a doctor about these delusions of grandeur.

And again...
I was referring to Linux's share of the web browsing market. Please try to read more carefully next time.

Funny thread I started. If you, "dokter," had read my post more carefully you would have seen how I began my sentence:

It probably won't make any difference,

"It," to clarify, refers to the impact the Linux users of the world would have on the legitimacy of the Windows Media format.

I do not believe I am deluded. This lack of insight on my part indicates that I am not fully ready for any kind of psychological treatment, were any in order. I do understand the minority status of the Linux market, but, while on the subject, I feel the statistics to which you are referring fall somewhat short in accurately representing the size of the Linux user base. I believe it is more like 5% of desktop users that are using Linux. I think, in a lot of cases, Windows users are counted twice as they have their home computer and a computer at work. That is 2 Windows computers but only 1 user.

Of course, it is about 5% of the vote that determines who wins most elections. I believe it unwise for anyone to disregard even such a small number.

Re:News Flash

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, since the open source crowd doesn't currently have an alternative, the "legitimacy" of proprietary formats isn't in doubt at all. So it boils down to if MS is more or less evil than Real or Apple, and as others point out, at least its known how MS codecs can be plugged into other players.

As Alan Cox points out on the other Linux video story, the scene is a big patent minefield. The best hope is a royalty-free licence grant (like MPEG1) or for some nice company to give you a working codec.

Re:News Flash

[zachdms]

(FYI: WMV *is* ASF. It's the "audio/video" subset file, whereas an ASF can have all sorts of extra stuff.)

Re:News Flash

[Com2Kid]

Sorry, you have it ass backwords.

ASF is an AVI file with some header information shoved at the front (codecs to use and such) and some other steaming information shoved in there.

You can actualy get AVI to ASF file converters that do not touch your image or sound data at all.

I also believe that ASF files CAN contain a URL or two also. But thats it.

WMV files can do a lot of ... 'other' stuff that is mostly useless, but they can carry MS's newer MPEG4 derived codecs (ah, WMP8 and such) and have other 'interactive' features to them.

finally linux gets something useful

[Anonymous Coward]

hopefully we will see office for linux soon; with Tux as the office assistant.

Distros with "premium" editions ought include!

[timothy]

One reason I like having a Macintosh around is to watch things in Quicktime format. Sounds like this will (completely?) eliminate that desire.

However, people for the most part never upgrade their hardware *or* software, either because they're scared to (righteously, since a lot of software installation is badly designed and dangerous to one's data and sanity), lazy (an enduring and important human trait), or not allowed (many workplaces).

I bet most computers in the Windows world get new software only when Outlook lets in a virus, and most Linux boxes get new software only when a new distribution / version is installed. Perhaps Mandrake could sell another "Premium" install? Or Red Hat?

timothy

Re:Distros with "premium" editions ought include!

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet most computers in the Windows world get new software only when Outlook lets in a virus

i dunno about you but everytime i get a new game my computer gets new software installed on it, everytime there is an upgrade to any the zillion adn one audio apps i have my computer gets new software installed on it, and everytime i get the motivation to build a dedicated machine (such as an mp3 server, pvr, gps nav system for my car, etc) those computers get new software installed to them, and everytime i hit up some scam pron site usualy some new spyware is slipped in and installed on my system. Windows and Linux systems are not as static as you think. btw what type o system do you run that is always having stuff installed on it?

I wonder why?

[Meech]

Companies are like little greedy children, they don't play nice together. Apple has quicktime, Microsoft has windows media player. Quicktime, as you say, runs like garbage under windows, and from my experience, windows media player runs like crap on the Mac platforms. The only thing that works on all are "standard" file types such as mpg, mp3, etc.

Re:I wonder why?

[jeffehobbs]

As much as it pains me to say, Windows Media Player's video quality at high bitrates on MacOS X is really quite good.

The MacOS X version is far better software than the version of WiMP Microsoft released for MacOS 9, anyhow.

~jeff

thank god

[clinko]

Linux's main setback is the lack of multimedia and using Netscape.

I love the fact that people brag about linux's reliability, when Netscape would crash every 10 minutes. I want overall reliability.

Re:thank god

[Archie Steel]

Lack of Multimedia? Netscape crashing every 10 minutes? When was the last time you tried Linux? You should give it another go, you might be surprised...as it is, the only multimedia format I couldn't play on my Linux box were .wma and .asf (I've had Crossover for Quicktime for a while, now - works beautifully). As for Netscape crashing, I ran Netscape 6.1 for four months and maybe the application unexpectedly quit two or three times (and it was on all the time...)

No, the only thing Linux lacks right now as far as multimedia goes is a strong competitor to Adobe Illustrator and a non-linear video editing program (like Avid, or even Premiere). The rest is all there, son.

Re:thank god

[poopybum]

Newest Opera is pretty slick and unlike IE you can actually customize it!

Re:thank god

[minus_273]

opera 6 beta just ourt yesterday also has support for the crossover plugins...

Re:thank god

[Pussy Is Money]

You have a point but it's not sound. Galeon and Konqueror (or even Links!) make browsing under Linux a breeze.

Of course, you will need plenty resources to run them, which kills that other Linux-zealot bullshit argument alleging Windows slowness, but they are quite stable and effective.

I wonder..

[glh]

Does the linux plug in have that flying windows logo pop up? :) Or is it a flying penguin maybe?

Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, you might want to read this:

The crossover plugin will let you play Windows media player files, but emedding inside the browser is very problematic. Why? simple - The Windows Media player when works with Netscape - uses Netscape's Java (1.1.x) to communicate with the player and to embedd the window.

What does this means to you? it means that you can watch WMP embedded in your browser - if you're using the old Netscape - Version 4.x - not Konqureror, not Mozilla (any build).

It's not CodeWeaver's fault - it's the way MS did it - the exact thing will happend on Windows. The guys from CodeWeavers will look into it and probably try to hack something..

Other features that are not mentioned - you can now use Trillian, Real Player 8 (the much better Windows version, not the crappy Linux version), you can install fonts directly from MS web site, and the speed seems to be imrpvoed.

Lots of other plugins has been added to the crossover, and IMHO it's worth the $19.95 price (there is a free upgrade to previous owners), and of course - all the hacks that was done to wine - are rolling back to the main tree - so your money helps open source...

I'm sure that people here will write that "don't buy it since it support non standard audio/video format" - to them I'm saying that when 90% of the people have those players - webmasters won't give a crap about others...

Cheers,
Mesh Mesh

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[lessthan0]

"I'm sure that people here will write that "don't buy it since it support non standard audio/video format" - to them I'm saying that when 90% of the people have those players - webmasters won't give a crap about others..."

And to you I say if you continue to support that crappy proprietary format, webmasters will continue not to give a crap. Sorry, if the web site won't post stuff in standard formats, I don't care to view it.

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[WeaselGod]

If the windows version of real player is "much better" then the linux version then I really hate to see the linux version.

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[Junta]

What is so much better about Windows RealPlayer 8 than the linux version? Only difference off hand is that under Windows they support Hardware overlays for faster colorspace conversion and good scaling, and this improvement is lost when you have to use wine which forces everything to software mode anyway. If anything, I would reason the Windows version would be much slower under wine.

If you want an improved version, you can chop your way through real's site to find a realone beta for linux, which supports XVideo for playback. Of course, it is flaky, but if you have RealOne for primary playback and Real8 as fallback for when RealOne craps out, it is quite usable...

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[Cardhore]

I enjoyed reading your post. But I think that webmasters will readily switch to a somewhat obscure format just because everyone hates real player, nobody likes windows media player (especially since it phones home), and real player is spyware and really crappy software in general.

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[binner1]

I second that...the only way to beat a bad format, is to not use it.

Fuck .doc, fuck .wm*...fuck, fuck, fuck.

If only the peons buying this shite realized it was shite, we'd be much better off. If they want to use crappy software to view it, hey that's their problem, but at least use open, portable document formats.

-Ben

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[cannonball_D]

Hmmm... According to the email from CodeWeavers (received after paid download), WMP is known to not work in Mozilla, and following up on that shows that patches are in the works for a potential 0.9.9 fix. Of course, this is just for embedded media, and it works perfectly for anything that launches the player. I'm impressed and very pleased with the release. I am happy to pay for this.

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[yesthatguy]

Any chance someone could post a link to the RealOne beta (linux)? I looked for 10 mins. or so and must just be looking past the crucial link.

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[Cyno]

I'm sure that people here will write that "don't buy it since it support non standard audio/video format"

I think most of us know that there are no good audio/video codecs available yet. Divx ;) is too proprietary and still doesn't work right, and everything else is WAY too proprietary and offers no support for Linux, filesizes are still too large, and quality is crappy. Once the xiph.org guys develope a video codec I'm sure most of the open source world will adopt theirs and discard the rest.

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[seann]

Give mplayer a try?
I've watched movies with broken indexes on the fly (.asf, divx .avi) with a amd 350

Great program, inlove. Lack of linkage though..

freshmeat.net

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[Junta]

To get an idea of the convoluted navigation:
First near bottom of screen clcik on "Previous Player Versions"
Then the tiny "Realplayer 8 Basi is our free player" link. Then select UNIX to get new form, then you must select a Linux 2.x version to get the right screen next (rpm or tar, doesn't matter). Then ignore the download links and scroll down below item number 5.. There you are....
To shortcut to the Unix form, here is url:
http://proforma.real.com/real/player/unix/un ix.htm l

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[sewagemaster]

realplayer:
i dont seem to find realplayer on linux crappy. in fact i think it's better than the windows version since it doesnt carry all the fat - ie, the ads and channel subscription "features"...

Trillian:
there are plenty of all-in-one IM programs.. everybuddy being just one of them. i think everybuddy runs under linux... Also, i've been using licq (icq only) and it works wonderfully.

MS:
they've got a msword/msexcel/mspowerpoint-viewer "plugin" that lets you view all those proprietory (spelling?) file formats.

Windows media??
Since it doesnt support viewing those annoying clips in the browser anyway, i guess we can all stick to xine. Xine works wonderfully and supports divx, avi,mpg,asf,wmv formats!

Shockwave:
i believe that the macromedia website already has the pluggin available for download for linux. but can someone tell me why codeweaver has to support it?
i know the original linux version works terribly under konqueror and crashes it almost every single time...

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[Anonymous Coward]

Just to follow up on this, it looks like you *do* have to select tar. I didn't get the right link when selecting RPM.

http://207.188.7.150/2865f7ab54f5eeab2a20/unix/r1p 1_linux22_libc6_i386_a1.bin - looks like the direct download link to it, but I don't know how or if it should work, since they want you to go through the form and give them an email address (a@a.a worked for me).

Re:Few comments on crossover 1.1.0

[Cyno]

I've seen this before. mplayer is awesome! I've never seen a movie via ascii art before! Just wish I could get it to work... I'm so lazy.

CrossOver is worth every penny

[tempest303]

I bought CrossOver back in November, and I LOVE it. As a previous poster talked about, I don't enjoy "legitimizing" uber-proprietary formats like Sorensen Quicktime or Windows Media, but sometimes one has no choice. This is where CrossOver comes in, and it does its job admirably. The install and setup are simple, and best of all, it JUST WORKS, just as all payware ought to. If all commercial/payware software was as well made and as well supported as Crossover, Free software wouldn't have nearly the appeal that it does right now, IMHO...

Anyway, if you're running Linux and you've ever missed not being able to watch movie trailers, certain pr0n stuff, etc, don't suffer any longer! Plunk down the $20, it's worth it! You get great software AND you're supporting the single largest (to my knowledge) contributor to the WINE project. (Not to mention helping put some food on the table for some great geeks - I live near St Paul so I got a free tour of their office; they're cool people. :)

Re:CrossOver is worth every penny

[unformed]

Anyway, if you're running Linux and you've ever missed not being able to watch movie trailers, certain pr0n stuff, etc, don't suffer any longer! Plunk down the $20, it's worth it!

Why do that when I shift over about 4 feet to my rommates puter. That way not only do I save 20 bucks, but I make his keyboard sticky isntead of mine.

;)

Re:CrossOver is worth every penny

[RMSIsAnIdiot]

>>
If all commercial/payware software was as well made and as well supported as Crossover, Free software wouldn't have nearly the appeal that it does right now, IMHO...

'Free' software only really appeals to those people that refuse to pay for software outright... and would end up pirating pay software anyway.

Re:CrossOver is worth every penny

[GianfrancoZola]

Whoa. Of course I've heard of Codeweavers but I never bothered to figure out where they're located...as it turns out, I live about 400 yards from their office!

I might have to get that tour too, hehehe. :)

Re:CrossOver is worth every penny

[ChaosDiscordSimple]

I'm completely pleased with my copy of CrossOver as well. The QuickTime support (which I bought it for) is excellent. When I eventually ran into a PowerPoint presentation I needed to look at, I was happy to discover that CrossOver's support for the Microsoft PowerPoint View was quite solid. Their support is prompt, accurate, and friendly. For $20 I am a very satisfied customer.

Re:CrossOver is worth every penny

[ndogg]

'Free' software only really appeals to those people that refuse to pay for software outright... and would end up pirating pay software anyway.

No, it's the simple economic matter of supply and demand. I would pay for software if I had to, but Free software does what I want, so to pay for competing software is rationally stupid for me anyway since I can get it for free. I contribute to such Free software projects because it enhances the benefits of the product and the cost to me is a small amount of time.

Now, of course, perhaps I'm the exception, and perhaps most Free/Open Source people would be pirates if this option was not available to them. The problem with that thought is that most pirates are freeloaders. They want to take, but they don't want to give. In that scenario, there is no incentive to improve Free/Open Source software. However, that doesn't seem to be the case since we have such high quality software as FreeBSD, GNU/Linux, KDE, GNOME, etc.

Also, if most were just pirates, then what would the incentive be for companies such as IBM and SGI to release (as Open Source) such software as JFS ans XFS? These two filesystems are highly respected filesystems, and are used by some pretty large firms. If most Free/Open Source people were pirates, neither IBM nor SGI would make such a move since neither would profit on them. However, as it is, this is not the case. Open Sourcing XFS and JFS allows more developers to work on these projects without IBM and SGI having to pay for that development cost. This in turn raises the quality of such software, which in turn reflects back on the company, which in turn brings in more customers. What about the developers? Humans are quaint little things, and believe in "intrinsic" rewards. Developers are humans, and so they must obviously get an "intrinsic" reward.

Now, as far as RMS being an idiot...

Re:CrossOver is worth every penny

[Anonymous Coward]

Or if you're a linux user with half a brain you simply download mplayer for free.

$20 worth it... you've got to be fucking kidding me.

Re:CrossOver is worth every penny

[tempest303]

Mplayer doesn't do Sorensen.

Need I say more? :P

Curious

[ciole]

In fact, just making this functionality user modifiable (i.e., open source) might be enough for you to become a "circumvention device".
This seems to me to be a necessary conclusion of our current DMCA, DRM-OS, etc, fiasco. But IANAL.
Would any with legal knowledge care to comment? Any chance this general theme could be litigated?

This is the next logical step...

[Anonymous Coward]

...in Linux.net initiative.

Mplayer is great!

[7-Vodka]

Mplayer is awesome, I view divx movies with it. There's even a spanking new pretty gui. It's the only movie player for nix that actually works well. There's also aviplay, while it's worth a mention, the code is messy and it doesn't work as well.

Quicktime is the pits

[Anonymous Coward]

I recently installed Quicktime on my PC. I followed the directions and told it NOT to splatter itself anywhere.

Despite this, any time I go to a web page with sound, I have to wait forever for the QuickTime drivers to load, and then I get a message asking me to upgrade Quicktime.... with no option to get rid of the message.

The installation and user interface have a sort of rudimentary unfriendliness to them that the rest of the world left behind when it ditched Windows 3.11 for Workgroups.

Re:Quicktime is the pits

[arkanes]

Small workaround for that upgrade message - set your system time to the year 4500 or something equally stupid, then click "upgrade later". Then set time back. Should take care of it.

yes, a lame hack for a lame player. But better than nothing.

Windows Media Player for Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

What's better:

(A) A Windows Media Player for Linux project

or

(B) Sex with a mare

Reading For Comprehension 101.

[Doktor Memory]

[...] but Quicktime under windows is [...]

That's all well and good, but Mr. Lee wasn't talking about Quicktime under Windows. He said, and I quote:

As much I would not like to see or support sites that use Windows Media shite, its still really nice to have this option. Not too mention kick ass QuickTime playing."

He is clearly referring to using the Crossover Plugin to play Quicktime under Linux, which it indeed does a "kick-ass" job of doing.

You might want to have that jerking knee attended to by a physician.

Re:Reading For Comprehension 101.

[Reality Master 101]

You might want to have that jerking knee attended to by a physician.

And you might want to have that selective vision checked out by a optometrist. He is talking about the products in general, not specifically to Linux. Read it again.

Re:Reading For Comprehension 101.

[PotPieMan]

As much I would not like to see or support sites that use Windows Media shite, its still really nice to have this option. Not too mention kick ass QuickTime playing. [Emphasis added.]

No, I think it's obvious he is talking about using those products under Linux. He never visited sites that used Windows Media because he didn't have a way of decoding the content. Now he does.

Re:Reading For Comprehension 101.

[Doktor Memory]

Okay kid, line by line this time.

"As much I would not like to see or support sites that use Windows Media shite, its still really nice to have this option.

Since being able to play WM files is not an "option" under Windows, it is clear that he is referring to using Crossover for this purpose. (The title and focus of the whole story is also a not-so-subtle hint.)

Not too mention

In standard American (and, I believe, British) English, the phrase "not to mention" indicates a continuation of a previous description or comparison. Additionally, there is nothing to indicate that he has switched gears and is now comparing Quicktime to WMV or is suddenly speaking of either of them in a more general sense.

kick ass QuickTime playing."

"Kick ass Quicktime playing" has a completely different meaning from "QuickTime is kickass." (Hint: different verbs.) No comparison to any other product was made or implied: he is stating only that Crossover does an excellent job of playing QuickTime videos.

Re:Reading For Comprehension 101.

[Anonymous Coward]

Informative? LMAO this site has reached a new low.

p.s. microsoftsuck
linux is the best
kernel 2.4.1.2.3.4.5.4.3.2.5 solved world famine.

Re:Reading For Comprehension 101.

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for explaining my posting, its good to see that some people get it.

Btw, I am Canadian eh, so "Not too mention" must come from British cuz I shore aint an American. Hows that for bad english?

Re:Reading For Comprehension 101.

[VoiceOfRaisin]

why is this informative?
he WAS talking about quicktime for windows. thats what this linux plugin uses. quicktime for windows. its not a mac binary, jeez.

the moto of codeweavers is "bringing windows to linux" for fucks sake

Commrad taco decree

[Anonymous Coward]

No site shall stream in a format available by default on millions of platfoms.

Makes perfect business sense .. really

More like legitimize Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd say it probably does more to legitimize Linux as a viable platform for average consumers. Best of both worlds: You get to run your favorite OS, but still view the content you'd like. Of course, this assumes a more practical attitude toward computing choices, which is occasionally lost on here...

Not to throw a wet towl on this but...

[ViceClown]

Most sites require media player 7 these days.

Re:Not to throw a wet towl on this but...

[Geekboy(Wizard)]

This is a (not so) minor stepping stone. I'm sure they'll get WMP 7 working soon. I go to few sites that require WMP at all, and most sites that use it, have the option of QT, or RM.

Re:Not to throw a wet towl on this but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Most websites that use the Media Player plugin will still use Version 6.4 as this is the most widely distributed version, and has some features that version 7 still doesn't support.
So you should be OK with 6.4 for most things... as long as it can download newer codecs you're fiiine.

shite?

[RedAlgaron]

viewing media in windows is great, there is no shite involved.

Re:shite?

[Graspee_Leemoor]

"shite" is a real word. Perhaps it is a UK thing not used in Amorica, but I can assure you that it is a very real word in UK.

graspee

Re:shite?

[MonkeyBot]

"Shite," or "shyte," is actually a commonly used curseword in England, Ireland, and Scotland. Watch the movie Trainspotting to see it in common use. "That's a load of bloody shyte."

Re:great! (now i want to (get rid of) my real1 pla

[SweetAndSourJesus]

It's the same scene on OS X. Real isn't shipping a player, and even if they were I wouldn't use it. I don't like the microsoft formats any more than most /. readers seem to, but real has got to be the worst. It's feels like a used car lot. Everywhere you look, someone is trying to sell you something. I don't have OS 9 on my systems, so I haven't seen Real(tm) content in about a year. That format needs to die already.

I don't know if this is as newsworthy as...

[DA_MAN_DA_MYTH]

The fact I just saw an ad for Visual Studio .NET on Slashdot.

Re:I don't know if this is as newsworthy as...

[SubtleNuance]

It is God's job to forgive Osama bin Laden. It is our job to arrange a face to face meeting.

1) There is no "God" you cult-worshipping-feeb.
2) Taking another persons life, whether during war, act of passion or by the state is wrong. Doesnt the irony of avenging a persons death with MORE DEATH strike you as a little obvious?

Re:I don't know if this is as newsworthy as...

[DA_MAN_DA_MYTH]

Not according to Hammurabi, you subtle Nuissance you :)

Don't support Windows Media.

[IGnatius T Foobar]

While it's great that Codeweavers has managed to get enough of WINE working to support Windows Media Player, it's still a very bad idea for us to use it. Here's why.

Every time you click on a Windows Media file, you are sending a message to the site operator which basically says "I support Microsoft's efforts to monopolize digital media." You're voting with your mouse.

Right now, in most places we still have a choice of formats: Windows Media, Real, streaming MP3, whatever. If everyone just mindlessly chooses the Windows Media formats without a second thought, site operators are going to look at their logs and say "well, nobody is using the Real/MP3/whatever formats, so let's just start webcasting exclusively in Windows Media format." Do you want that to happen? I sure don't. We cannot afford to let Microsoft monopolize this market. Think of the ramifications of Microsoft having a 100 percent lock on digital content. Digital Rights Management? Easy... just put it in Windows Media. Region lockouts? Put it in Windows Media. Want to work around those problems? Sorry, you can't, because digital media is Windows Media and you don't have any other choice!

Let's not forget that even though Windows Media Player may now run on Linux, you'll never see a Linux distribution that includes it, because the Crossover Plugin is not free, and Microsoft's licenses prevent WMP from appearing on Linux CD's.

Great technology, bad way to use it. As Linux users we must keep on clicking on those non-Microsoft formats, and politely asking site operators to maintain or add media in non-Microsoft formats. Let's not succumb to the urge to satisfy short-term viewing/listening needs at the expense of sacrificing long-term interoperability.

Re:Don't support Windows Media.

[RMSIsAnIdiot]

As Linux users we must keep on clicking on those non-Microsoft formats, and politely asking site operators to maintain or add media in non-Microsoft formats.

Wow, that is like, soooo 1960s civil rights. So if my calculations are correct, you actually might make significant progress in, um, say, 40 years?

We'll be on Windows XXXXXP by then.

Re:Don't support Windows Media.

[hardcoredreamer]

From my limeted experience on the Windows Platform, I would prefer to have a integrated media experience, than trying to mess with even installing realplayer. Until I can install realplayer without every setting in my machine changed to only use the Real line of products, I will stick with what I already have installed. Granted I would love if other methods were used, mp3, mpeg, ogg! even. But the reality is they are not. Yahoo gives me only the choices of real and windows, and I simply go with windows. And if there is a cry from the masses that my cddb list is being stored on my computer locally, or that my unique identifier will be used against me. Turn them off. Simple. -rayray

Re:Don't support Windows Media.

[emerix]

IMHO you don't have to worry about simple users submiting to webmasters "use the Windows Media Format" for your webcast .. that's alreday taken care of major players in the media and content publishing.
To mention just one Cisco AVVID more info here . Any partner under the Cisco AVVID umbrela is using Windows Media Formats to encode and broadcast video ... not Real/MP3/ogg/quicktime even thow some of the encodings might be even better in some cases.

Re:Don't support Windows Media.

[EllF]

A nice alternative to using Windows Media Player under linux for viewing movies (even windows media formats!) is "MPlayer", located at: http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/. It's a bit tricky for a novice to install, but the effort is well worth it.

Supported formats current include "MPEG, VOB, AVI, VIVO, ASF/WMV, QT/MOV, FLI, NuppelVideo, yuv4mpeg, FILM, RoQ, and some RealMedia files", as well as "MPEG, VOB, AVI, VIVO, ASF/WMV, QT/MOV, FLI, NuppelVideo, yuv4mpeg, FILM, RoQ, and some RealMedia files", to quote from the information on mplayer's site.

Re:Don't support Windows Media.

[JanusFury]

So you'd prefer to have RealNetworks monopolize it with THEIR piece of shit media formats? Or how about apple, they could monopolize the media market. In fact, Quicktime and Apple already pretty much monopolize the digital media production market.

WINDOZE IS TEH DEVIL! *sigh*

Re:Don't support Windows Media.

[rakarnik]

And support Windows OSs instead?

Case in point: I am currently enrolled in a graduate school program that is delivered online via Windows Media Player. Most of my classmates use Windows and have no problem with the format. On the other hand, I have to keep one of my computers at home running Windows just so I can watch these lectures. So would you rather that I don't support a proprietary OS, or a proprietary media format?

Truth is, no matter how often I click the RealMedia or MP3 link on a site that can afford to support multiple formats, other economically constrained sites will not switch, especially when the needs of about 99% of their users are being met. And the Crossover plugin (or a Linux based media player such as MPlayer) may be the only way to use these sites.

Re:Don't support Windows Media.

[TheSync]

While it's great that Codeweavers has managed to get enough of WINE working to support Windows Media Player, it's still a very bad idea for us to use it. Here's why.

Hey, are you suggesting an illegal restraint of trade? ;)

FreeBSD?

[nvrrobx]

I'm an avid FreeBSD user, so I'm curious as to if this works in FreeBSD. Does CodeWeavers have a FreeBSD port, or does this work under Linux emulation? If it does, I'll be purchasing it ASAP!

Re:FreeBSD?

[bovinewasteproduct]

It does not look like it...:(

VERY VERY Linux centric. The binaries run, but the config is all messed. Will need alot of hacking it looks like.

Tried both a general install and an install as root.
BWP

[OT] Re:No native version?

[Cpyder]

I used it a few times, mostly to play the .asf video of Win98 crashing for Bill Gates at a computer conference..
..which was a fake crash, probably to get some press (which it did) under the credo "bad publicity is worse than no publicity"...
The BSOD appeared on the screen with a nice powerpoint "wipe in" transition...

Re:[OT] Re:No native version?

[Edgewize]

Um, no, it wasn't fake. The 'slide in' effect came from the video source. If you've ever changed resolutions on an older video projector, you'd see that the horizontal alignment starts way off and then slides to the center.

Re:[OT] Re:No native version?

[generic-man]

There was no "wipe in" transition. The effect was caused by the projector's input rapidly switching resolutions, and the projector's inability to adjust immediately to the new resolution. Try changing resolutions on an old monitor -- you get the same effect. I actually broke an old monitor by switching resolutions too often.

Re:[OT] Re:No native version?

[Pussy Is Money]

As other posters have commented: the wipe in wasn't. I'd just like to add: to the man who has only a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.

Re:great! (now i want to (get rid of) my real1 pla

[repoman44]

Exactly, this is the type of product that will put linux on the mainstream desktop. More power to companies like codeweavers and ximian that are making money on proprietary formats. As the ximian guy said, "you've already chosen proprietary" If you want linux on the desktop, quit coding for that sourceforge project, and write some fucking apps that break the stranglehold on formats.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

There's something wrong here

[rjamestaylor]

Here's a story, basing Microsoft products as "shite", about using said Microsoft product in Linux and praises Apple's just-as-proprietary media format. /*Head spins*/

So, am I to understand that MS sucks so very bad that we need to run out, install a different MS-free OS and then get a utility to run pieces of MS software to have a decent computing experience yet give no "thank you" to MS for making a product that enables us to have that enjoyable computing experience?

This reminds me of street beggars spitting on people who give them money for being capitalist pigs. Sheesh.

Ever tried to

[waspleg]

down grade your version of media player? i hope that this doesn't apply to the plug in mentioned but under XP it's basically impossible to get rid of version 8 which doesn't support opening of multiple video windows liek 6.4 used to .. i've tried repeatedly to replace it with it's older version and M$ made sure it wouldn't work.. even in win95 compatibility mode it won't work i hope linux doesn't allow itself to fall into the same trap.. people will hopefully find better alternatives..

Re:Ever tried to

[aosgood]

start > run > mplayer2 > hit enter....

then view > options > formats > hit select all then ok. close mplayer2 and run some windows media formats. you'll notice that you get the old one back without using the wmp8 hog.

Re:Ever tried to

[waspleg]

you sir are a god

many thanks, i wasted 2 whole days trying other players and couldnt find anything that fit.. i appreciate it

Re:Ever tried to

[modec]

Ever tried running mplayer2.exe? Microsoft actually included 6.4 in Windows XP - guess they knew that the new version was crappy.

Legality?

[Xunker]

The reason it's only WiMP 6.4 and not 7 or 8 is not a technical reason, but a legal one.

I can't remember where I read it (it is on the Codeweavers site, though), that the reason WiMP wasn't supported from the get-go was that the license says something about how it can only be installed in the Windows platform, and Crossover/Wine kinda doesn't qualify.

Ah, yes, here is the snippet from the support forums (Tue, 28 Aug 2001):

We've put some energy into WMP 7.1, but if you look at the license for WMP, there is a potential barrier. At this point, it would appear (based on the MS license) that the only legal way we could support WMP is if it were already installed on an existing MS partition.
However, IANAL, and we're still looking into this.

..but I'm not going to complain or anything, of course! Now the only thing I need my MacOS and Windows boxed (any work, anyway) for is, well, games!

Likely Not Legal

[youngsd]

I took a quick look at the EULA in my Windows Media directory. This snippet seems important:

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A VALIDLY LICENSED COPY OF ANY VERSION OR EDITION OF MICROSOFT WINDOWS 98, MICROSOFT WINDOWS MILLENUM EDITION, MICROSOFT WINDOWS 2000 OPERATING SYSTEM OR ANY MICROSOFT OPERATING SYSTEM THAT IS A SUCCESSOR TO ANY OF THOSE OPERATING SYSTEMS (EACH AN "OS PRODUCT"), YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO INSTALL, COPY OR OTHERWISE USE THE OS COMPONENTS AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA.

Earlier in the EULA, Windows Media Player is described as an"OS Component". So, it looks like any use of Windows Media Player on a non-Windows operating system is probably not permitted. If it were, you can be sure MS would fix that in the next version of the EULA.

It will be interesting to see whether MS tries to do anything to CodeWeavers on this front.

-Steve

Re:Likely Not Legal

[EllF]

Actually, if you re-read the snippet you quoted, it indicates that legal use is granted if you "have a validly licensed copy" of at least Win98 or better. In my case, the last operating system I purchased from Microsoft was Windows 98SE; thus, I meet the EULA requirements for using Windows Media Player on another operating system.

Posession of the license is key, not having an installed copy of Windows.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[Grond]

Well, I have an old copy of windows98 from before I started using Linux. I guess that means I can install it. I didn't really read the whole EULA, but just from that snippet I don't see anything that says you have to install it on the licensed OS, just that you have to have a license for it.

Also, I wonder about Windows Media Player for the Macintosh (it exists and is called just that)...I guess their EULA is different. But in any case, since Microsoft makes an essentially identical version of WMP available for MacOS, I imagine they'd have a hard time smacking down Codeweavers, who are really just providing a way for Linux (and BSD?) users to 'enjoy' the use of Microsoft's product.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[fobbman]

The EULA snippet from above appears in WMPlayer versions 7 onward. This is why they went with 6.4, as this requirement does not show up in 6.4's EULA.

CodeWeaver's is, however, looking for a way around this for those of us who have Windows installed on another partition.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[BradleyUffner]

I'm guessing if you have a valid license for (doesn't have to actually be installed) one of those version of windows, then you would be ok. most computers come with one bundled in. (yes i know it's not free, but if you paid for it you have a license)

Re:Likely Not Legal

[Fizzlewhiff]

Earlier in the EULA, Windows Media Player is described as an"OS Component". So, it looks like any use of Windows Media Player on a non-Windows operating system is probably not permitted. If it were, you can be sure MS would fix that in the next version of the EULA.

There could be ways around it. For instance, Linus could implement an IUnknown interface in the kernel and say he is "working on" a kernel that runs under COM in Windows. That would probably make the crossover plugin legal. Of course no one really needs to complete the IUnknown interface. It could be a perpetual work in progress to satisfy the requirement that Linux is part of Windows.

It sounds crazy but what the heck.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[jafuser]

You don't really need a WMP >6.4 anyway, as it plays all codecs just as well as 7. Actually better, since it's a bit more efficient than the bloatware that is WMP7+.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[Tet]

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A VALIDLY LICENSED COPY OF ANY VERSION OR EDITION OF MICROSOFT WINDOWS 98, [...] YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO INSTALL [...] THE OS COMPONENTS AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA

Not a problem. I have several valid Windows licenses. They came with various computer bits I've acquired over the years. I don't use them, but that's another matter. The wording of the EULA says that if I have a license, I can install with a clean conscience. It doesn't say I have to install on Windows, either, or that I have to have a license for each machine I install on. Just that I need to be in possession of a license. Which I am...

Re:Likely Not Legal

[quake74]

As far as I understand, the EULA just says that you need to own a copy of a Microsoft operating system to use WMP. It doesn't forbid you to use it under any operationg systems. Since the vast majority of people who wants to use WMP already own a version of Windows, I don't see why the EULA is a problem... Quake74

Re:Likely Not Legal

[InodoroPereyra]

Yes, they are aware of that. There is a post in one of their mailing lists about this, from October 2001. Jeremy White mainly says

As to Windows Media Player, we've really deemphasized
our focus on it, entirely because the license
agreement for WMP is fairly draconian.

However, Wine is continually improving, and I'm hoping
that Wine will support WMP in the future for those
that have a valid WMP license.

Cheers,

Jeremy

I really wonder what happened after that, did they find a way around the license?. Anyway, long life to the great wine community ...

Cheers,
Don Inodoro

Re:Likely Not Legal

[matusa]

Hmm, I disagree. Maybe what you say is somewhere else in the EULA .. but anyway:

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A VALIDLY LICENSED COPY OF ANY VERSION OR EDITION OF MICROSOFT WINDOWS 98, MICROSOFT WINDOWS MILLENUM EDITION, MICROSOFT WINDOWS 2000 OPERATING SYSTEM OR ANY MICROSOFT OPERATING SYSTEM THAT IS A SUCCESSOR TO ANY OF THOSE OPERATING SYSTEMS (EACH AN "OS PRODUCT"), YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO INSTALL, COPY OR OTHERWISE USE THE OS COMPONENTS AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA.

All I see here is the fact that you need a copy of windows to use this. But you can definitely use it on linux (or any other), given this.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[Ambush]

Slow down there pardner...

I'm running Linux, yet I own a copy of Windows 95. So, according to the EULA I can legally install and use WMP under Linux.

Having said that, I wonder how long it will take MSFT to ammend their EULA to specify that it must be installed under Windows 9x/NT/2k/XP/whatever.

*sigh*

Re:Likely Not Legal

[whopis]

actually... if you read the snippet closely, you would see that owning a copy of Windows 95 does not entitle you to use WMP.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[Alan]

What if I have a "validly licensed copy" of windows, but it's not installed?

Re:Likely Not Legal

[Krilomir]

Except that I've found searching in asf-files using Windows Media Player 8.0 to be a lot faster than in previous versions. There are probably other neat features that one would like.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[bmo]

And if you ACTUALLY DO have a copy of said OS, it is perfectly legal, even if it's not installed.

Just because Windows isn't installed doesn't mean you can't run WMP8 legally.

Simple.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[Sloppy]

I took a quick look at the EULA in my Windows Media directory.

Whoa, whoa... time out, right there.

If this is the first time that you've looked at the EULA, and you already have the software, then it follows: you never agreed to that EULA. So what does it matter what the EULA says?

When Microsoft actually has a way of proving that you have a contract with them, then maybe there's a contract. An example of this would be a signature. Even something as weak and insubstantial as memory of a handshake, would count for something. But if that happened was that somebody (maybe you, maybe your 3 year old kid) clicked a button, and Microsoft doesn't even have a record of it, is there a contract? No way. You can run their program under whatever damned OS you want to, and there isn't anything "not legal" about it.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[josh crawley]

This post is somewhat a joke and somewhat serious...

Why not request in making a 'serial check' on the windows partition, or a cd auth check. You really cant go much further than than to check for a legit CD. Still, at least they went to the trouble of trying to determine if they validly own a Windows CD.

By the way, nowhere in that snippet of the EULA, does it say you do NOT have the right to install Windows Media Player on a non windows machine. All it says is that you need a legit liscense of a MS OS product.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you heard of "product tying"? That's illegal in a lot of countries in Europe (maybe even in the US) so this part of their EULA means damn shit to me.

Re:Likely Not Legal

[Neph]

The EULA snippet from above appears in WMPlayer versions 7 onward. This is why they went with 6.4, as this requirement does not show up in 6.4's EULA.

I'm pretty sure I saw the "you must own a licensed copy" restriction when I skimmed the 6.4 EULA, but as someone else pointed out, it doesn't actually say that you have to install WMP on that OS specifically.

WMP7 just doesn't work yet, to wit.

I think CodeWeavers is just leaving the responsibility for the legality of installing WMP in the hands of their users (rightly so) -- I noticed when installing there were instructions to "read the EULA carefully" or somesuch.

Microsoft Bad, Apple Good, Linux beyond question

[rtphokie]

Is it even possible anymore to see something on Slashdot involving Microsoft, even indirectly like this one, without a dig at Microsoft? It really hurts the submitters credibility.

Many of the Linux propagandists on /. remind of people I've worked with who use a single programing language (such a C++) for absolutely everything they do. OS's are no different, none is right for every job.

These are things you learn with experience.

Windows Media Player for Linux?

[steveeq2]

When will Microsoft support Windows Media Player for Linux? Man, I use xine, and it plays all my stuff, but I hate the interface. Media Player (especially the XP version) has a GREAT interface that's easy to use?

That's what xine should work on. . . and no, the media player "skin" doesn't cut it for me.

- Steve

Java is Deadly!

[crlf]

From the WMP EULA:

Note on Java Support. The Operating System Components may contain support for programs written in Java. Java technology is not fault tolerant and is not designed, manufactured, or intended for use or resale as on-line control equipment in hazardous environments requiring fail-safe performance, such as in the operation of nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, air traffic control, direct life support machines, or weapons systems, in which the failure of Java technology could lead directly to death, personal injury, or severe physical or environmental damage.

What does this say about microsoft's views towards java technologies?

Re:Java is Deadly!

[Anonymous Coward]

If I recall correctly, this has been on slashdot before, and it turned out to be Sun themselves that required that snippet of text to be included in the EULA. If you download a Java runtime from Sun's site, I'm sure you will find those words, or similar, in that EULA too.

/Joshua Q.

Re:Java is Deadly!

[Doktor Memory]

What does this say about microsoft's views towards java technologies?

Very little, since that language is lifted directly from Sun's own license for Java.

Re:Java is Deadly!

[Saint Nobody]

actually, microsoft is obligated to say that due to a contract with sun. i don't think they like having that in the eula, either, but sun wants their asses covered. i can't remember which one, but one of their eulas specifically followed that paragraph with something along this lines of "we were contractualy obligated to make that disclaimer by sun microsystems, inc.

Re:Java is Deadly!

[Drachemorder]

... so this implies that we're supposed to use Microsoft products in nuclear facilities, air traffic control, life-support, etc., right?

"Hi, Mr. Kettle. I'm Mr. Pot. Did you know that you're black?"

Re:Java is Deadly!

[linefeed0]

Note on C Support. The Operating System Components may contain support for programs written in C. C technology is not fault tolerant and is not designed, manufactured, or intended for use or resale as on-line control equipment in hazardous environments requiring fail-safe performance, such as in the operation of nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communication systems, air traffic control, direct life support machines, or weapons systems, in which the failure of C technology could lead directly to death, personal injury, or severe physical or environmental damage.

You agree to indemnify and hold harmless AT&T Bell Labs, Brian Kernighan, and Dennis Ritchie for any incidental or consequential damages resulting from the failure of C technology.

One thing for MS

[tevita]

They do embed all their bits and pieces into one package and sell it for a "not too significant" sum of money. Here we have the "cross-over plugin" ($20), add that onto whatever other bits and pieces you need for your operation and before too long, you bitsa OS becomes significantly more $$ than the one MS (all in one) solution. Oh yeah, and add the incompatiability and management headaches on to it all as well.

Summary: I am not sure that the "Free"/"Open Source" model is going to be more cost effective than the MS solution in the long run on the desktop.

Re:One thing for MS

[spitzak]

You seem to be confused. Microsoft is not selling things that make WMP work on Linux. The "bits and pieces" needed from MicroSoft are exactly the same pieces you need to make WMP work on Windows. They cost no more or less.

The cost is $20 for CrossOver plugin. Also if you paid attention CrossOver is neither "free" or "open source" so whatever argument you are trying to hammer together is not even attacking your intended target.

WMA and WMV most widely supported? I doubt it

[WIAKywbfatw]

Kick them for using the most widely supported media format out there.

Hmmm. I'm not exactly armed with the latest media format usage figures (and, right now, I'm not exactly inclined to go looking for a reliable independent source that provides them), but I very much doubt that WMA is more popular than MP3 or WAV, or that WMV is more popular than MPEG or RM.

Care to provide any impartial hard evidence to back up that claim?

Just look at how many third party players support the various formats. And look at how many downloads out there use one of Microsoft's proprietary formats as opposed to one of the alternatives I mentioned.

Maybe, just maybe, you're wrong.

What's the point?

[Junta]

Already we have the library avifile for managing nearly any WMP format, as well as xine and mplayer. Quicktime was important because no one has gotten Sorenson to work in any form under linux. Windows Media not only plays using avifile and such, but keeps the wine stuff at the lowest level possible, even replacing win32 codecs with native ones when possible (i.e. vorbis, mp3, divx, etc...). This means for one thing performance is tolerable. For another, at the higher levels you are guaranteed to do more sophisticated things with the output. Foremost of these is making use of hardware overlay surfaces in different color formats (YUV overlays) providing hardware colorspace conversion and smooth scaling, improving both quality and performance. Using WMP through wine means that not only is much more of the code done in inefficient win32-in-linux mode, it means there is no capacity for native codecs and that all colorspace conversion, scaling, and filtering must be done in software, prohibitively slow.

Some might say

[9632]

That Linux users should use the crossover plug-in because it supports proprietary formats. I say that by purchasing it you show that there is a Linux market and you know what happens when M$ smells money. (enter your own conspiracy theory here)

Re:great! (now i want to (get rid of) my real1 pla

[Junta]

Of course, to play realmedia files maybe you should try realplayer? Just a thought... Thought the site is horrible to navigate, you can find it. Basically, you have to request the older version, then select unix, then poke around enough and you can even find a RealOne beta for linux, which supports the XVideo extension for hardware scaling and colorspace conversion.

For Windows Media, try avifile, PythonTheater, xine, or mplayer. Though it is good they are working towards this stuff, Windows Media Player through wine is inelegant, since the overhead imposed by wine and the lack of XVideo support makes media playback bad. Only reason to tolerate QuickTime through wine is because there is no other option for Sorenson encoded media...

More Windows Media

[Anonymous Coward]

There's lots of windows media options in Linux now, it seems. Xine has a windows media streaming plugin that doesn't work so hot for me, but it works, and it's native linux. I've never been able to get the codeweaver stuff to install on my machine without crashing halfway, and it makes me nervous as hell when those microsoft installs take over my machine. Onward, majorMMS!

There's a bigger problem.

[Verteiron]

Actually, my bigger concern here would this:

From the Windows Media Player EULA:

NOTE: If you do not have a validly licensed copy of any version or edition of Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows Millenum Edition, Microsoft Windows 2000 operating system or any Microsoft operating system that is a successor to any of those operating systems (each an "os product"), you are not authorized to install, copy or otherwise use the os components and you have no rights under this supplemental EULA.

Oops.

Re:There's a bigger problem.

[emoeric]

i own a copy of windows, therefore i can copy wmp.

simple.

Sucks though, that you cant just use mplayer with a hacked codec to watch wmv movies (or if you can, i just havent found the codec yet).

Re:There's a bigger problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

So I can't run WMP on Windows NT4? Microsoft can suck an egg.

Problems viewing files in Codeweaver

[Idimmu Xul]

Ive downloaded and installed Codeweaver (and I have to say the install was very nice) and installed the WMPlayer and Quicktime plugins etc and when i use galeon to view installed plugins it lists them all which is a good sign, but..

when i goto a site to view a movie (i was testing it out on yahoo) it asks me what i want to do with it, e.g. download/view with helper etc. is this a problem with my mime settings, and could someone please tell me how to fix it?

thanks

What else can MP v6.4 handle?

[antdude]

I have MPlayer, Xine, and Oogle. I can play DivX4, MPEG, etc. What else am I missing that Media Player v6.4 can handle? Is it only WMV and WMA? If so, then I thought it was only supported in 7.x+?

Thank you in advance.

Re:What else can MP v6.4 handle?

[sewagemaster]

actually xine supports wmv. i'm not sure if noatun supports wma though.

Re:HOW ABOUT

[fferreres]

'Free' software only really appeals to those people that refuse to pay for software outright... and would end up pirating pay software anyway.

How about:

'Free' software only really appeals to those people that refuse to pirate...

I've "discovered" the fact that i can't switch many people to Linux because they better like pirating Windows stuff. The very second things become unpirateable, they'll start bitching like babies and will run to Linux OR pay for cheap alternatives to the defacto standards of today.

Crossover plugin is a nice effort, but too buggy

[Anonymous Coward]

I tested the Crossover plugin when it was first released. I had high hopes for it because if it worked, there was a good chance that some developers at Media 100 (who are now at Discreet) would seriously consider a Linux version of Cinestream, a kick-ass video editor. The only reason I still have a Win2K partition is because Cinestream only runs under Windows, but I digress. The "Pro" features of Quicktime mostly didn't work using the Codeweavers Crossove plugin, and those that did sort of work caused the thing to crash. I can crash the plugin with about 3 mouse clicks. It's not worth a 1.0 desgination, much less worth paying for. I love Linux, but apps will have to be much better written than this if we will ever have a chance of it becoming a mainstream Desktop OS. Just my two cents worth. I haven't tried the 1.1 version yet. I might... But if it doesn't support Quicktime Pro, there's no point in bothering.

Fuller?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuller review? More full review? Review of increased fullness?

How about you use "more complete review" and not sound like a grade school dropout.

You can use Wine to do this

[HomerG]

Wine has been able to run Media Player 6.4 for some time now. I wrote a small script to launch it some time ago, called mplayer2, so as not to be confused with the Linux Mplayer.

#!/bin/sh
cd "/mnt/windows/Program Files/Windows Media Player"
wine --managed --debugmsg -all mplayer2.exe $1

Then set the mime type in Navigator/Mozilla/Galeon/Konqueror like this:

MIMEType: video/x-ms-asf
Application: /bin/mplayer2 "%u"

The above is for Navigator, but you get the idea. I of course made the script executable and as you can see moved it to the /bin directory.

It's not going to embed it in your browser and most of the commercial sites that offer trailers require the newest player. But it will work as well as the Codeweavers plugin if the need should arise, without the cost.

Disclaimer: I have purchased the Crossover plugin and am very happy with it.

Re:You can use Wine to do this

[redcliffe]

I've never used codeweaver's stuff, and I've been running WMA 6.4 under wine CVS for over a year.

David

Re:You can use Wine to do this

[donutz]

I've run WMP under wine a few times to try out the live streaming from WJJO in Madison, WI (www.wjjo.com), and I dont know if it's just my setup, but playback of the stream seems to stutter a lot. I'll try codeweavers and see if it works any better that way....

Re:You can use Wine to do this

[donutz]

Well I dont know what it was, the change to the codeweavers version of wine, or the upgrade to 2.4.18, or getting rid of the preempt patch to the kernel, but I've now got WMP playing my live stream from WJJO with very little skipping. Seems it might be time to pry open the wallet and contribute....

Re:You can use Wine to do this

[donutz]

on further review, it looks like wmp under crossover does start to skip more and more after a while. And wmp even crashed a couple times (particularly when trying to hit the stop button).

In win4lin, playback is pretty flawless. (with wmp 6.4 at least. wmp 7.1 seems to crash w4l).

Great, but...

[Faust7]

What's the latest (non-XP) version of Windows Media Player? 7.1. Not to sound like an ass, but I really think Linux software development needs to stop playing catch-up. I remember for the longest time when Netscape 4.x was the only decent browser available for Linux--long after the far superior IE 5.x had been introduced. Stuff has to start pulling even, folks...

Re:Fuller?

[b_pretender]

Or how about "a thurough review".

Rest in Peace, Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. Quicktime has good codecs, used to be a good piece of software in its 2.x days, *and* I'd rather see almost anyone but MS control media. Oh, and Apple *once* was one of the, if not the most respected companies involved in human interface design.

That being said, in the last five years or so, Apple's seen a lot of turnover, and now Apple's human interface design is among the worst of the worst. Bitmapped crap, not using the widgets that Apple themselves designed so well back in the day, screen space waste, nonstandard windows, "drawers" with unlabelable items based on the image in the movie...

I was a huge Mac fan it its day, but frankly, while the Apple hardware group is still quite impressive (don't complain about processor speeds -- that's Motorola/IBM, not Apple), Apple software has gone to the dogs in the past few years.

If Steve Jobs is the one pushing this fucked-up interface stuff, I wish to god he'd get pushed out of the company.

Jobs is *also* the one that refuses to let the Mac have two mouse buttons, despite the fact that it supports contextual menus, and there are more people familiar with Windows (which uses two buttons) than MacOS anyway.

It's really sad that Apple sucks so much today. It took Linux to push MS and Apple to start working on stability -- and in the past few years, with the WinNT line becoming mainstream and the OS X line, we've seen a tremendous improvement in stability for *all* users. Apple used to be the one pushing the user interface envelope -- they're the reason that Windows is remotely usable, even if Windows has some interface gaffes. Without Apple pushing interface, few people are trying to improve things, and everyone, Win, Mac, and *IX alike suffer.

winamp+wine supports this already!

[Andreas(R)]

Running winamp through Wine has allowed WMA-audio on Linux for a very long time. It's just like in Windows: good sound quality, and perfecly legal.

"Why fix what's not broken?"

Re:HOW ABOUT

[rseuhs]

How about:

'Free' software only really appeals to those people that refuse to pirate...

I've "discovered" the fact that i can't switch many people to Linux because they better like pirating Windows stuff. The very second things become unpirateable, they'll start bitching like babies and will run to Linux OR pay for cheap alternatives to the defacto standards of today.

Somebody please mod that up, it's the most insightful post I've seen around here for a couple of *months*.

Forget it, it's just a EULA

[jmorris42]

Clickwrap 'licenses' ain't worth the photons emitted by your display. Ignore it and get on with it. CodeWeavers might not have the lawyers to officially tell people to use it and certainly couldn't bundle it (copyright has nothing to do with a EULA) but that's a practical limitation and not a legal or moral one.

Re:Crossover plugin is a nice effort, but too bugg

[rseuhs]

AFAIK, 1.0 only supports the usual version and not the Pro-version.

I use it on a regular basis and it never crashed (but I only used it to watch trailers etc.)

Dammed

[Nicopa]

The problem is that the workd is full of... you.

Windows Media Player issue

[Anonymous Coward]

might I point out the word WINDOWS in the subject?

Re:Bills track'n that unique player id.)

[Anonymous Coward]

enjoy, I always hoped he could track me on other OS's, now my fantasy is that much closer.

credibility and the effect on others

[Anonymous Coward]

As much I would not like to see or support sites that use Windows Media shite, its still really nice to have this option.

Had me going there until I read that. Takes all interest away. Zealots who parrot rhetoric like that to look cool and hip are not people who I can trust to give me good advice or recommendations. perhaps you should put down your official and patented 'protester' attitude sign and start acting like a rational human for starters. And yes, had it been some MS worshiping zealot, I would say the exact same thing.... because you are the same

WMP 6.4 and Wine..

[evilpaul13]

I used the Transgaming Wine release from CVS a few months back, and it had WMP6.4 working fine. It could to MP3 Audio, but not video. Though I admittedly didn't have any of the video codecs installed 'cause I'm not that l33t :)

My girlfriend can finally use linux

[gururise]

This is great news! The only thing (I think) thats been preventing my girlfriend from letting me install Linux on her machine is the following:

* She likes her Windows Media Player
* She likes her RealPlayer 8
* She likes her Trillian

Xmms will replace her winamp.
Gimp will replace her Photoshop.
But what am I to do about Microsoft Word, Excel, and Publisher??

Re:My girlfriend can finally use linux

[autechre]

Word and Excel run using Wine (not sure about Publisher...never really heard of it). OpenOffice is also a suitable replacement for those programs in almost every case (hasn't failed on me for any Word or Excel documents, and sometimes opens documents better than the "real" Office!)

Re:My girlfriend can finally use linux

[Anonymous Coward]

don't overdo the transition or she'll break up with you

It's correct

[Anonymous Coward]

Java is great and all, but it still has quite a few bugs. Perhaps not as many as you find in Windows 95/98/ME/NT/2000, but still WAY more than you really want to find in software controlling industrial machinery.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Browser embedding

[dmaxwell]

Plugger 4.0 worked well for me with an MPlayer/Galeon combo. I'll give out a Plugger hint you won't find on the Plugger site. At on my Debian machine it needed a little help to register it's MIME types with Mozilla. Put a copy of the pluggerrc file in the .mozilla directory in your $HOME. Any time you edit the pluggerrc (the one in your $HOME/.mozilla) to add another MIME type, delete the appreg file in the same directory. This forces Mozilla/Galeon to reparse the pluggerc file.

Plugger recently updated to 4.0, be sure you're using that version. Plugger can be had from:

http://fredrik.hubbe.net/plugger.html

BTW. I was able to compile it under Debian PowerPC and it worked fine there.

Re:Browser embedding

[jaavaaguru]

BTW. I was able to compile it under Debian PowerPC

I was going to point out how ironic it is that someone with a PowerPC is going to this extent to be able to play Quicktime movies that were natively supported under the machine's original operating system.

But then I thought to myself, all those people that got Windows with their machine are probably going to the same extent to play a format that was natively supported by it in Linux too. Sorry, but this all seems very ironic when people are so intent on moveing away from the proprietaryness (my new word of tha day) that the original system exhibited.

Re:Browser embedding

[dmaxwell]

I meant that I was able to compile Plugger on PowerPC. I don't think that MPlayer will do me much good on as it can't make use of those retreaded Windows dlls. I use Plugger to do things like embed gv in a Window for reading PDFs online. BTW gv works great as an embedded PDF viewer.

For those who don't know, Plugger allows standalone Unix apps to be handlers for web content. It will embed most any application in a browser window and is an excellent way to handle things like midis, wavs and PDFs. It works much better than "helper" apps as it will do things like close the external app when you hit the back button in your browser.

It comes with a precooked pluggerrc file with sane defaults like Timidity for midi playing and Sox for soundfile playing. By editing pluggerrc, you can turn most any app into a browser plugin.

On my K62-500 based home machine, I use Plugger to embed MPlayer to play online movies. I use Plugger for other things on my Powerbook Firewire laptop.

powerpoint viewer removes last charakter of dir

[SilverSun]

Except that the powerpoint viewr is removing the last charakter of the first directory I open, everything works REALY nice. But let's be pc and don't click on the MS button to often. mpeg/divX is your friend.

Windows Media rocks!

[Anonymous Coward]

What would you rather use? RealAudio? pfft! RealAudio 5.0 came out in like 1995 and it's still the current version. Not only that, besides being old, RA just plain sucks donkey weiner.

Quicktime you say? Hell no! Quicktime is bloated and ugly; not to mention that it's made by the same idiots who make the childrens toy - iMac.

Windows Media is 10x better than anything else out there. The fact that it's Linux ready is great!

nobody seems to have mentioned....

[Phexro]

that with the .dll codecs themselves, you can play .wmv & .asf in xine.

Umm

[redcliffe]

I've never used codeweavers wine, I only use the standard one, and I've had WMA 6.4 running for over a year now.

David

Impeccable Timing

[4of12]

This is great!

You simply have no idea just how much I'm itching to try out WMP on my Linux box, especially after reading all of today's coverage, including this .

I can see it now....

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometime in the not so distant future Steve Ballmer is going to be answering some Senators questions in hearings and the words "Windows Media Player is inseperable from the Linux Kernal" will come out of his mouth.

Sure it's just an innocent little plugin now but then, that's how it always starts isn't it......

Re:Likely Not Legal [Maybe, you mean]

[Anonymous Coward]

As I understand the passage, you merely need to own a copy of windows, not actually use it. You could be using the Windows CD as a coaster, but so long as it's a liscensed version, it's all kosher.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

What about AVIFILE?

[evilviper]

I'm a FreeBSD user, so I've even further removed than all you Linux users out there, but AVIFILE has never failed me so far. If Windows Media Player can play it, so can AVIFILE. So I have to ask, what's the problem? Why the need for more emulation?

Propaganda

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's true that a lot of people here fanatically support Linux/MAC/FreeBSD and that at times the language and opinionating is downright embarassing.

But you know what? It's my experience that Microsoft zealots are far worse. You know why? Because often whilst not having a clue about Linux/MAC/FreeBSD they likewise are clueless about Windows as well.

Finally, you fault people for tossing digs at Microsoft. My feeling on this is that whilst I believe such digs usually lessen the strength of their argument, I sympathize with the frustration of having their OS constantly and falsely stigmatized by Microsoft.

Windows Media Server on Linux

[sbombay]

When it comes to the Windows Media market, Microsoft is more willing to support other operating systems. Real Networks is the monoploy player in the streaming market and Microsoft will do anything to make Windows Media win this market, including supporting Linux.

Last year a company called Starbak released a streaming server on Linux that supports Window Media Technology (WMT). They built the server from scratch without using any Microsoft code. They initiated OEM discussions with several companies. These large companies got nervous about a reverse engineered server and wanted Starbak to get a license from Microsoft. Suprisingly, Microsoft didn't object and licensed the technology to Starbak. Starbak lists Microsoft as a partner and they talk about Microsoft licensing WMT to Starbak.

From the Starbak

"STARBAK has a Windows Media Technology (WMT) server license to support the delivery of WMT to the desktop over the company's proprietary embedded operating system (OS) platform. This WMT licensing event represented a first for the streaming media industry"

The proprietary embedded OS is actually Linux.

Microsoft was even willing to license the source code to other companies to port WMT to other OSes. I don't think anyone has taken them up on their offer.

Re:Windows Media Server on Linux

[vidarh]

That's because allowing streaming from other OSs doesn't hurt Microsofts overall business. On the contrary, making the streaming server widely available makes it MORE likely that Windows Media will get a foothold in the market and treaten open technologies on the client side.

no, it cant be... its just wrong

[digitalmonkey2k1]

DEAR GOD WHY?!!!

Re:Linux users are two faced..

[flk]

it's not always about being a hypocrite ... say a linux user comes across a page that offers media via windows media player and the user is really interested in seeing the flick ... is that user going to discard seeing the media because it was originally designed for a windows environment? i understand that nowadays it is important to have multiplatform-compatible products/documents so that all may enjoy, but until that is done, where's the error in using an emulator?

You will be so sorry in the near future

[Anonymous Coward]

if you support MS now.. in any way.

Not a dime to MS.
not a dime.

Linux sucks on desktops

[Anonymous Coward]

After 4 years free of Windows I'll again install it. Linux sucks on desktops. It's fine for servers, but don't waste your computer using it for desktops.

Mplayer

[Pussy Is Money]

A year ago this would have been GREAT if not WONDERFUL news. Now that we have mplayer, it's just great. TIMTOWTDI.

A concern (My FUD)

[Sloppy]

FWIW, I bought Crossover when it first came out, and have used it to view some Sorenson Quiktime stuff.

But I hope people stop and think about what they're doing today, beyond merely the proprietary format angle. And it's this: You're going to run Microsoft code no your box?

I wasn't afraid to run closed Apple code. I wsan't even afraid to run closed Macromedia code (though maybe I should have been). But now we're talking about the company that gave the world applications like Word and Excel, which have powerful macro languages embedded in documents. We're talking about the company that gave the world Outlook, which in some versions, executes scripts that have been sent to it. We're talking about the company that gave the world Internet Explorer, which will download and execute code from a website (AxtiveX controls) and run it without a sandbox or any restrictions on what it can do.

I don't know anything about the wma format. That's the whole point of it being proprietary. Can there be "active content" in there? Does Media Player do anything strange and unusual? Has the code been audited -- or hell, even casually glanced at -- by anyone who isn't mentally infected (e.g. outside of Microsoft).

No thanks. I don't won't have MS code on my box. People who read proprietary MS formats and run MS code, are in a sort of a "fool me ten times, shame on me" situation.

Re:A concern (My FUD)

[josh crawley]

Ok, if your afraid to run Microsoft code on your linux box, make a user that only can invoke a xwindows session and wine (with associated linux directories dedicated to wine, and possibly allow read only access to your fat32/ntfs drive). If you wanted to go to the extreme, have a seperate user called microsoft, and install a seperate setup of wine for its use only. Then transfer the files from the doc/xls/ppt to a usable format, like ps or linux's office programs.

The second method should keep 'infected', as you put it, methods of programming out of your other windows programs running on linux. If you manage to get IE running, run it as this user too, as MS apps in the time frame tend to get along.

Anyways, IE is one of the better browsers out there. The next best are Netscape(Mozilla). Ever try running this browersaurii on Linux? Linux crashes faster than you can say "Blue Screen of Death". Next, Opera is good, but has problems with the frame around it. The last I checked, It didnt cooperate with dual screens very well. And it costs money, a turn off to NON-crackers. Then you have the small-time browers like Konqueror.. Its nice but doesnt render some Netscape liking sites or most IE sites properly. Lynx is nice, but text only (purpose is command line terminal). The last I checked, IE is the De-Facto standard, which means you had better make your site readable by IE (or better yet, adhere to W3C standards of html) or have a IE browser to render all those "Ignoring W3C standards to make the web page look nice in IE" web pages. Just being plain assanine about IE or MS is going to get you, or anybody nowhere. Offer to help that fan site in standard html instead of IE only. That would help website quality much better, and make us look better overall. The way it is now, your some spineless asshole that enjoys whining on Slashdot, without trying to make a difference.

You're just a PLAIN ANTI-MS BIGOT.

Everyone: But this please!

[Dwonis]

Some Slashdotters don't seem to understand the significance of this.

What's the #1 reason why people still use Windows, even though they hate its broken crappiness? Alternatives like Linux and BSD lack backward-compatibility with Windows.

What does does the CrossOver plugin offer? Partial, but significant, backward-compatibility with Windows. Net result: more people use Linux, so more Linux-native software is developed, Microsoft is marginalized, and everybody wins.

I just bought the downloadable version of the plugin, you really should, too.

Re:Everyone: But this please!

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you shouldn't. You should contribute to the Free WINE project, of which this is just a rip-off.

Re:Everyone: But this please!

[Anonymous Coward]

the #1 reason why people still use windows is because they _need_ windows. it's a job requirement. being able to watch movies in linux is not going to cause masses of people to throw out their windows install media.

Re:Everyone: But this please!

[Dwonis]

Okay, fine, it might not be the #1 reason, but it's still a big enough reason to cause many people to seriously consider/i of tossing out their Windows install media.

Does it allow...

[josh crawley]

Does the app allow VirtualDub to run on Linux? All I know, VDub crashes when invoked by Wine. If this crossover plugin works for VDub, I'd be quite interested. Windows Media Player (as it is fairly nice, not as good as BSplayer) plays most media types, including thier Windows Media files. I usually convert out of propeirty formats (RM, VIVO, asf, ...), still, viewing in thier native players would be nice. Even better is if you can link Xwindows :0 with a area screen recorder with Windows Media Player. Pipe /dev/dsp to /movie/buffer/moviesnd1.wav and movie buffer to /movie/buffer/movievid1.avi . Then hand sync them. May not be elligant, but it would work.

Doesnt bother me having MS stuff on Linux, as I use Excel 2000 with wine. Still cannot get the other office stuff working. Word and Access crash with "Too little memory" warning, which is associated with having too much physical memory (I have 320 MB in my waste linux box). Outlook just pukes and doesnt even start (thats one thing I didnt want, just to test).

Better than native!

[pacc]

I bet Quicktime on Linux beats the hell out of running the plugin natively in Windows XP.

If it didn't break IE it could have been harder to decide for one or the other way.

You know..

[olman]

There's actually WMP 6.x front-end available with 7.x install. It's in the "media player" directory, I cannot remember the name of the executable excatly, but it's in there.

Efficiency aside, which is not an issue to most of us in post-gigglehurtz-era, 6.x UI is much cleaner and more straightforward to use :-)

But I still prefer my Zoom player.

Media player still a piece of crap!

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a dual P4 Xeon 1.7GHz 2GB RDRAM, AMI RAID 5 U160 Server array.. and it still is slow to run win2k media player... why?

because as usual MSFT still forces down our throats what it wants.. all the .mp3 files have to be transcoded to WMA. On my machine it takes over 2 minutes a song and I got awesome hardware.

I hate MSFT. am so glad I can reboot into Linux and use its players... he-he...

This is most alarming stuff...

[Anonymous Coward]

If microsoft enters the Linux world with a closed source program designed to view ms-specific video, and provided by the fact this program can individually install new codecs from ms-pages, doesn't it mean they can then spy on Linux folk as well as the Windows people? Doesn't it mean that DMCA is forced down our throats? Stick with DVD and divx, do not fall for MS's fake good will.

- Voice of Ambience -

Codeweavers might come to a dead end

[Derci]

As you know, in the new IE, Netscape-style plugins are disabled. I guess it's because MS wants everyone to use ActiveX controls instead.

Do Codeweavers intend to try to enable ActiveX execution somehow, too? If so, then it's ok.

- Derci (meeoooow!)

My guess is...

[Anonymous Coward]

... that they're unable to view all that special pr0n they've downloaded with AVIFILE. Have you tried that with AVIFILE?

Other ways to stream video on linux?

[gigi]

I'm trying to find ways to stream video, without relying on the wine library. I am looking for video players that run on linux, ideally embedded linux with framebuffer (without XFree86).

XINE: I saw that Xine should do that, but when I run it, the open menu cannot open anything besides local files. here is the link for Xine's MMS plugin: MajorMMS

OGG TARKIN is not even started yet.
3iVX: anyone using their protocol/codec?
AVIFILE and MPLAYER - do you know if they can play back video streams aside from crazy ideas such as this asfrecorder-mplayer hack?
And any users of linux4TV codecs?
Thanks for any help - gigi

Windows Media Player Stinks

[Windows Me]

Why use any media players out today in Linux Linux dosen't need any of their slow cluncky small properties It'd be better off with something new . Better yet a Media player with no need to program in error codes

Re: Windows Media Player Stinks

[Anonymous Coward]

Great idea