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If that were the case, why would people be willing to sacrifice themselves to kill thousands of innocents in the US? Bush's gov't has only told us "because that area of the earth is populated with nothing but evil godless fundamentalists and terrorists who hate freedom and like to kill people and don't value their own lives". But people have stopped asking why. No offense, but notice that you just avoided the topic as well. The topic of discussion almost changed to only CIA, but the question here *still* is: why did the Alqaida do what they did on 9-11?

I don't even think the CIA even has checks and balances by Congress. Reminds me of Hoover's FBI.

I didn't know that. That worries me even more. How much more invisible can they get?

the golden rule isn't even **IN** the Bible. That you think it was, was my point! It was Confucious who first said it, but since it would disrupt Christian culture to think 'heathen godless savage pagans' could develop such a golden rule, they tried to associate it with the Bible by squeezing "unto" into it, so people will only go to the church when they want answers in life.

It wasn't just the open border policy. What was more important was US government intervention in other countries' affairs. I mean, the CIA don't exactly twiddle their thumbs all day! In one of the Dalai Lama's books, he mentions that the CIA were involved in his run to India, and that was decades ago on the other side of the world in the Himalayan mountains in Tibet, ferchrissakes! Can you imagine what the CIA are like now? What amazes and scares me the most is that today people have stopped demanding to know why and just accept the fact that it happened because those "middle easterners are evil terrorists". But WHY? WHAT ARE THEY DYING FOR? All I ever hear is that "those godless savages and fundamentalists hate freedom, that's all". C'mon people, keep questioning!!! 3000 people dead. What is going on behind our backs?

I hereby am not inferring in any way shape or form that Tim Roberts is a fiendish twitfuck or that he sleeps with goats regulary.

I have no knowledge whatsoever that he is a godless freak, a communist, and a subversive terrorist. I am not aware of any connection between Tim Roberts and Saddam Hussein. I know not of any cash transfers between Infinium labs and Al-Queda.

I am perfectly sure that Tim Roberts is not a convicted felon, nor has he ever been a suspected pope-abuser.

I'd like to take this opportunity to make everyone aware that I've never heard of Tim Roberts dressing up in drag and singing show tunes in a gay biker bar.

There probably isn't even any connection between Tim Roberts and the fucknuts that may or may not be referred to as litigious bastards

Fear of god?

You mean that all cosmonauts aren't godless commies?

Just like it is the nature of man to become addicted. There's *nothing* inherently wrong with alcohol or gambling, it's how people handle it.

No good is brought to the world by either

Bah! I'm willing to bet that clearly half of the people in this country were conceived in the heat of a passion that was enhanced by the effects of alcohol, myself included. And I consider myself to be a "good" thing in this world.

There are plenty who can hold their acolhol, but far more who can't.

Again, Bah!! In virtually *every* situation that I have been in that involves alcohol, from bars, concerts, parties, weddings, etc. The majority of people involved were just out to have a good time. The "drunken asshole", while he is present is the minority.

Most addictive things leave a wake of broken homes, broken hearts, broken bank accounts, and broken people.

Don't stop at banning drinking gambling and pornography!!! Look at how many people are addicted to consumerism. How many people are losing their homes and families because they have credit card debt that is out of control?? Ban the Mastercard!! Ban the Shopping Malls!!

The price to society is simply too high.

And of course, you have the wisdom to mandate this.

the money then goes to companies that are arguably mafia-like.

Huh???? Which mafia-like companies are you referring to?? The Hilton?? State Lotteries? Sorry pal, this ain't 1960. Licenced gaming has done an admirable job in distancing itself from its Mafia roots. If you'd study your history, you'd see that it was the 18th amendment that allowed the Mafia to gain a foothold in the first place!! That's what happens when you try to legislate morality!!

The little money that ends up in education coffers is small consolation to the kids in broken homes or poverty because of a parents gambling addiction.

I live in Arizona, which allows Indian Gaming. There is at least one tribe where each member gets profit sharing of the casino's cut. IIRC, this was to the sum of $30,000 per member. Not to mention that for the first time in modern history, many of the tribes are becoming self-sufficient. Schools, hospitals and other vital services that we take for granted are finally being built. 100% of this funding comes from gaming.

I happen to be a social drinker, and I do occasionally gamble. I am also a very proud Godless Secular Humanist. And sir, I can guarantee you that my family is just as loved and cared for as yours is. I don't need some church to tell me how to behave. I don't need some government legislating how I should act. If you need your government or pastor to tell you "don't get drunk and beat up your wife", that's your problem, not mine. And that's precicely why my blasphemous, heathen ass will never step foot into the state of Utah. Anyone who comes knocking on my door to take my rights away (guilty pleasures as they are)is going to get a lesson in the 2nd amendment - right between the eyes!!

The proof is here

Apple Computers, the evil makers of the popular Macintosh line of computers are guilty of sin. The real operating system hiding under the newest version of the Macintosh operating system (MacOS X) is called... Darwin! That's right, new Macs are based on Darwinism! While they currently don't advertise this fact to consumers, it is well known among the computer elite, who are mostly Atheists and Pagans. Furthermore, the Darwin OS is released under an "Open Source" license, which is just another name for Communism. They try to hide all of this under a facade of shiny, "lickable" buttons, but the truth has finally come out: Apple Computers promote Godless Darwinism and Communism.

But is this really such a shock? Lets look for a moment at Apple Computers. Founded by long haired hippies, this company has consistently supported 60's counter-cultural "values"2. But there are even darker undertones to this company than most are aware of. Consider the name of the company and its logo: an apple with a bite taken out of it. This is clearly a reference to the Fall, when Adam and Eve were tempted with an apple3 by the serpent. It is now Apple Computers offering us temptation, thereby aligning themselves with the forces of darkness4.

This company is well known for its cult-like following. It isn't much of a stretch to say that it is a cult. Consider co-founder and leader Steve Jobs' constant exhortation through advertising (i.e. mind control) that its followers should "think different". We have to ask ourselves: "think different than whom or what?" The disturbing answer is that they want us to think different than our Christian upbringing, to reject all the values that we have been taught and to heed not the message of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Given the now obvious anti-Christian and cultish nature of Apple Computers, is it any wonder that they have decided to base their newest operating system on Darwinism? This just reaffirms the position that Darwinism is an inherently anti-Christian philosophy spread through propaganda and subliminal trickery, not a science as its brainwashed followers would have us believe.

I can just see it now......the Earth is about to end.....all of humanity will most likely be wiped out, and the asteroid is now visible overhead.

All of a sudden, some huge fricken laser shoots out of nowhere, and displays a logo for MS Windows Doomsday Edition. They're willing to spend the money on the off-chance someone saves us at the last minute, they will have practically every single person's eyeball who is in range of the asteroid all for the cost of a sky-writing laser.

Hey, goddist filth!

The only thing you're supposed to do when a heavenly object is about to obliterate you is to pray. PRAY!
What?
Don't you believe in the tennets of your fairy tales? You're supposed to welcome the end of all the unbelievers with the faith and understanding that only the devout will make it to paradise. You're devout and you will be saved.
Riiiight?
That asteroid is nothing short of the HAND OF THE ALMIGHTY/STARK FIST OF REMOVAL.
You should accept it willingly, lovingingly. Even before it becomes a visible-eye object there should be enough songs and stories about it that the armies of the anointed will leave no dry-earth unshadowed as the seas surge and the sky darkens with its approach.

This whole "playing god" thing will just interfere with the destiny issue.
What happens when humanity does avert a disaster which is supposed to render all human life null-o-void-o?!
Why, would anyone want to interfere with that!?
Virgins for everyone?
Constant bliss that makes orgasm seem like a hangnail?
If anything you'd think humanity would just use a laser to sky-write
"SO LONG AND THANKS FOR THE TEMPTATION" moments before impact.
My guess is, a Sky-writing laser is much less expensive than a bunch of godless toys. Whoops, there goes my common sense again...if there's a buck to be made the more expensive option will be selected.

Stupid meat monkeys, you were put here to suffer, to suffer tempation and vice, shucks, you're all tainted...ahahahah! I've got your original sin RIGHT HERE and I'm wearing a fashionable red bow on it.

If the typical US bank note is too easily copied by technology available to the home user, then it's time for the typical US bank note to be updated.

Oh. Nevermind.

If your God thinks it's so important that we worship him and live by his rules, why has he hidden all evidence of his existance so completely? If he intended for there to be One True Faith, how come he did not reveal the same religion to all of his creations?

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." - Romans 1:18-21.

I assume that at least the possibility of these verses won't be overly difficult for you to swallow, seeing as how you later claim that translators, scribes, and every day Christians willfully distort the meaning of scriptures.

Your religion says that God does not use humans as puppets because he created us with free will

I'm genuinely puzzled. What could you possibly know about "my religion," seeing as how this is (so far as I know) the first time we have ever spoken? Advice for you: Never assume that the understanding you have of a world religion is agreed upon by all its adherents. You probably have a great number of convincing arguments against "Christianity" in your head, but unfortunately they only apply to your ideas about it, and are only interesting to you and those who happen to agree with you. You'd be a lot better off replying specifically to "Christianity according to X" where X is some person whose views you are very familiar with. You don't even know whether I'm Roman Catholic, some flavor of Protestant, Orthodox, or something else that defies neat categorization. Your argument, which seems plausible enough, misses the target because I don't hold the view of free will that it requires.

subsequent transcriptionists could willfully change what was written

Logically speaking, perhaps. In fact, they didn't. The evidence of accurate transmission is so surprisingly strong that even I am amazed. So far as I know, critical scholars make all sorts of arguments about the authors of scripture, but practically never worry themselves much over whether the text as we currently have it has been accurately passed down. The number of available ancient manuscripts, what we know about ancient scribal practices, etc in my mind puts the burden of evidence on the person who wants to insist that the bible has been changed.

and translators could willfuly slant the words to their own ends.

This is why scholars read the scriptures in their original languages. Even simple pastors usually have a take two or three semesters each of Greek and Hebrew.

Finally, the reader can willfully misunderstand (or selectively quote) Gods word to support his own predjudices.

For a fascinating example of this in action, see the part of your post about "Thou shalt not kill." Seriously, there is nothing to this charge that couldn't also be said of any other view of authority or source of knowledge, whether it's the book of some religion, natural phenomena, or mathematical proofs. Witness the global warming debate.

Contrary to your ad hominim attack, I've put a great deal of thought into this subject

I apologize for being rude. I'm sure you have thought a great deal about your ideas about Christianity, and I'm sure many of your arguments are sound. But as I said above, you appear to assume that your ideas about Christianity are also "my religion," when in at least one area we've seen they aren't.

It is not even internally consistent with itself -- the Bible is so self-contridictory in so many places that it boggles the imagination. (EG: "Thou shall not kill" vs. "thou shall not suffer a witch to live"; "There is no man that sinneth not" vs. "Whosoever abideth in h

Back in the 30's and 40's Time and Life Magazine publisher, Harry Luce, overlooked the realities of Chaing kai-Shek's brutal regime in China, choosing to believe Chiang was a christian and a good leader, while Mao was a monster backed by the godless communists of Moscow. Luce's publications were the word. Too bad he had it wrong and couldn't see it. This guy is about as blind to reality.

First of all, it was Henry Luce. He and Charlie Soong were making an absolute fortune from printing and selling bibles in China. Charlie Soong was well connected with the Kuo Min Tang and eventually one of his daughters married Chiang Kai Shek, and another married Sun Yat Sen.

The Kuo Min Dang however was not really considered a 'brutal regime' until the communist movement arrived in the cities (ShangHai in particular) after which it cracked down brutally on Communist and the infant Trade Union Movement.
Before that however, the Kuo Min Dang was the political successor to a criminal organisation known as the Green Gang, who eventually came to distribute nearly half of the opium in China. Chang Kai Shek rose to a position of power in the Green Gang before joining the military. Once the Kuo Min Dang was in power, they assisted the Green Gang in distributing opium and eliminating competitors.

Later, when the Nationalist army was fighting the Communists, Henry Luce and Charlie Soong lobbied in Washington to support 'christian' Chang Kai Shek. Many millions of dollars were funneled from Washington, but very little of it reached the troops fighting on the ground. Most of the money appears to have ended in Charlie Soong's sons and Chang Kai Shek's bank accounts.

Chang Kai Shek and Charlie Soong were probably the richest and most successful 'rice christians' in history.

Why new name? 'Charleton', 'Fraud' or 'Pighead' seem to fit.

Back in the 30's and 40's Time and Life Magazine publisher, Harry Luce, overlooked the realities of Chaing kai-Shek's brutal regime in China, choosing to believe Chiang was a christian and a good leader, while Mao was a monster backed by the godless communists of Moscow. Luce's publications were the word. Too bad he had it wrong and couldn't see it. This guy is about as blind to reality.

-h-

So I'm guessing it should be a crime to post to web forums using anything other than your full name (First, Middle, Last and any Prefixes and Suffixes) as well as your full address, current location, telephone number, e-mail address, and social security number. And if you live in a godless country that doesn't issue SSNs or require laws as restrictive as ours, you should kill yourself before we bomb you.

Just kidding-- we'll bomb you even if you do kill yourself!

Hitlers Genocide was based on his idea of race. If it was just religion then Jews that converted would not have been put into the camps.

Sounds unambiguously religious to me. Hitler campaigned against athiests as godless communists to appeal to his Catholic constituents in the early 1930s. Whatever his personal beliefs were (or were not), he consistently claimed to be catholic and he used religion to gain and hold power.

To reject everyone who does evil in the name of a religion as having 'BAD FAITH' and discounting them makes no sense. If we consider the goodness of, say, everyone with facial hair- but then disqualify everyone with facial hair who does evil as falsely claiming to have facial hair, or of having "BAD FACIAL HAIR", then we can conclude that the remaining people with facial hair are much better people than average and that having facial hair therefore inspires goodness. This is nonsense- in the same way, dismissing evil religious people as 'not really religious' and then concluding that religious people are good is assuming your own conclusion.

you have a a duble blind experiment to prove that?

My claim was correlation, not causation. A survey of members of the (US) National Academy of Science was published in the journal Nature on 23 July 1998, page 303: "Leading scientists still reject God" (I link to the table of contents, which I think are accesable without a subscription... but I could be wrong about that.) In it, all 517 members of the National Academy of Sciences were sent a survey and slightly over 50% responded. Of those, 7% responded that they had a personal belief in God, 72% that they had a personal disbelief, and 21% responded with doubt or agnosticism. This belief appears to be down from historical surveys of 'distinguished natural scientists', 28% of whom reported belief in God in a survey in 1914, and 15% reporting belief in 1933.

This partisan propaganda article of his is a fine example of him reliving the Good Old Days, scolding Americans about the Red Menace(1), and gloating about the covert harm American "intelligence-gathering" agencies could do to the Godless Commies(2). The potential(3) loss of innocent lives is irrelevant to him, because we were (in his mind) at war with the Soviet Union(4), for the very soul of humanity.

Replace with:
(1) Terrorists
(2) Islamists
(3) Actual
(4) Arabs

Get the picture?

What the fuck is you're problem? Quit bashing the Yanks. Shucks, you must of been dropped on you're head as a baby. I oughta come over to your India country in Africa and pop a cap in your ass with my .357, then I'll sit my fat ass on you're face till you suffocate. Then I'll sue your family for causing me grief, and they'll have to pay my medical bills for the visits to my shrink because of my mental anguish. I bet you don't even have freedom of speec, you godless KKK motherfucker! I'd come kick your ass if Friends wasn't on right now.

It was put in during the Red Scare in the 1950's to differentiate us from those godless commies. If it was so easy to put it in, why are you people so opposed to removing it?

Any parallels to contemporary situations are left as an exercise for the reader.