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$400 Free From Microsoft for Californians
Jon writes "California and Oregon residents can get out of the 3 yr commitment to MSN and keep the $400 rebate available at Best Buy, OfficeMax, Office Depot and Staples." If anyone can confirm that this actually works I'd like to hear it, but if nothing less, its pretty amusing.
Or better yet, if every Californian does this, we'll have $14 billion, which we can use to make a competing company to write better software. Say, "Macrosoft".
--- Dirtside | "Spirituality" is the irrational belief in the supernatural
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
I think Microsoft may just wait until some slightly higher profile person does this and then challenge it in court and make a public example of them. Remember you may not matter but that dosn't mean that they are not paying attention to you.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
Even better news is that according to the article is that you don't have to apply the rebate to a new computer like they imply in their ad, but simply have to have spent as much money as the rebate is worth (i.e. No cash back).
Personally, if I were in California I'd be getting myself a nice new jumbo sized hard drive on Microsoft.
I'm just curious why this article was posted on Slashdot. There's no angle to BASH Microsoft here. What are the Linux zealots to do?
It has nothing to do with Linux in any way just about people who don't want to use MSN as their ISP or have to stay with them for a period of 3 years. Why should I sign up for MSN when I could say have a DSL or cable or even a T-1 and use a closer, better, faster, more courteous ISP than MSN?
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
It's funny. They way they word these "savings" ads. It sounds like you're saving $400 or whatever off your computer purchase for example, if you sign up for MSN or AOL (which I've also seen) or some such. But the time you sign up for one of these services costs the same amount of money you supposedly "save."
I suppose you do save something in a sense, but when it comes down to it, it's just brainwashing you to sign up for a service you don't need.
-- DuckWing
Let's see...
MS-DOS 6.0...$90
Windows 3.1..$90
Windows 95...$90
Windows 98...$90
90+90+90+90=$360
I'll take the 40 bucks and we'll call it even.
I think CompuServer and Juno are offering similar rebates,it looks lke a great way for Californian's to steal $400.
I thought that Juno was that free e-mail company is their an ISP that has a similar name or has Juno changed it TOS now?
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
So, we can go to Best Buy, and pick up our favorite boxed Linux distribution, /and/ get Microsoft to not only pay for it but hand us @$360 to put in our pocket? heh, sweet...
Jazilla.org - the Java Mozilla
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Regardless of whether or not Microsoft is paying for the rebate or not, there is profit being made by OfficeMax or Best Buy. These companies sell crappy prepackaged component machines (like Packard Bell) through unskilled, uninformed salespeople. These are the companies responsible for selling the public on the idea of proprietary software. These companies reduce profits for hardware manufacturers and encourage marketing hype over quality product. It's more important to be moral than get free money. Don't give your money to people like this. Please.
It honestly amazes me that one of our own AC has taken the effort to create a forum for his odd, yet strikingly funny posts. I hope you continue the 'serial' in the new forum, lest you be (-1 Offtopic)'ed to death here.
Strangly enough, 'fat-time and lubie' isn't nearly the craziest thing I've seen grab a following of viewers.
.sig: Now legally binding!
Would our California and Oregon bretheren be willing to buy the rest of us cheap computers and upgrades? There's a $100 a piece in it for ya, and we'll pay shipping.
Hmmm, it's getting very interesting. First we had to buy our computers and ISP subscriptions. Now we can get free computers for ISP subscriptions and free Internet access with the purchase of a computer. Dare I speculate that free PCs and free access are next? Well, at the cost of personal information. Hmm.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
``Our experience to date is that it's been a very popular program,'' Pilla said. ``We haven't seen that . . . and we don't expect to see that, basically because we think that the value that we're offering customers, as we've seen from the many sign-ups, is tremendous.''
This is most likely because anyone who has little enough knowledge of computer hardware to buy a prepackaged system at Best Buy, etc. is the same type of person who also lacks the experience to know a good ISP when they see one!
Eric
you mean I could buy a large piece of MicroSoft software ... and actually end up paying what it's really worth?
A copy of the rebate form can be found here:m snoffer/contract_co_reb.asp
http://www.staples.com/products/themes/microsoft/
I noticed the words "advance" and "lend" are used. Sounds like MS wants their $$ back if you cancel early. Notice how they don't use the word "rebate" so when you ask them if early cancelation affects the rebate they can answer "No" because its a loan not a rebate. (Did that make any sense?) Microsoft offered this deal last year with Viewsonic monitors. A post on www.deal-finder.com indicated that MS wouldn't allow you to take advantage of the rebate if you canceled. I don't think MS is dumb enough to give away $400. But who knows?
They've expanded. You can still get free e-mail. But now you can get ... whoops, looks like they've changed their service plans again. You can get either free internet access, or Premium internet access. Oh, and they have WebMail.
-BrentI have to admit that I am leaning towards running out and buying $401 worth of something at Best Buy and sticking it to the man.
But in more honest moments, I suspect that I am using my pent up hostility toward Microsoft to cover up the fact that I would be stealing.
"But wait!" you cry. "This is Microsoft's fault. They are the ones that left the loophole in their contract."
That's like blaming the kid who's bike you stole because he didn't lock it up. It certainly doesn't make your actions any more noble.
Microsoft is easy to hate sometimes. But I'm trying not to become just like them -- willing to make a buck anyway possible at the expense of others.
We know how these programs are supposed to work. Even if the ISP service costs about the same, you get a deferred, interest-free loan on a low-cost PC. It has allowed many people (my sister included) to get a PC when otherwise they may not have been able to. This in a Good ThingTM. I would hate to see these programs cancelled due to abuse.
HipNerd
Hipnerd
My experience with MSN from a few years ago was that once they start billing you it's very hard to get them to stop. It took me 3 months and the intervention of my credit card company.
Here is the fine print from the Best Buy ad -- as you can clearly see it states that CA and OR residents aren't responsible for paying back anything if they cancel!
INSTANTLY SAVE UP TO $400 ON ANY COMPUTER (excludes prior purchases) WHEN YOU SIGN UP IN STORE FOR UP TO 3 YEARS OF MSN INTERNET ACCESS AT JUST $21.95 A MONTH. Details of the MSN Instant Credit Program for Best Buy. The MSN Instant Credit program requires: (1) the purchase of a personal computer, notebook, or built-to-order PC, (excludes prior purchases), totaling in excess of the selected credit amount (sales tax will apply to the total purchase price including mail-in rebates and add-ons, as applicable) from Best Buy between January 2, 1999, and February 29, 2000; (2) selection of a 36-month membership to MSN Internet Access ($400 credit), 24-month membership ($225 credit), or 12-month membership ($100 credit) at the rate of $21.95 per month plus applicable taxes; (3) in-store signup at the time of purchase; (4) a valid major credit card (Visa, MasterCard, Discover/Novus, American Express accepted; Best Buy credit card or debit cards cannot be used with this offer); and (5) acceptance of the MSN Internet Access member agreement. The credit card will be automatically billed $21.95 each month. You are not obligated to continue as an MSN Internet Access member for any particular length of time; however, if for any reason whatsoever you do not continue for the period of time associated with the purchase credit that you have elected to receive, you agree that MSN will charge your credit card for the entire amount of the purchase credit immediately upon termination or cancellation of your MSN Internet Access account; provided that if you are a resident of California or Oregon you will not be required to repay the credit amount. Your social security number is required for processing your credit. You must be 18 years old or older to qualify for the MSN Instant Credit Program. Offer valid only on new MSN account established in store at time of PC purchase. MSN Internet Access is available only to users of the Windows® 95 or 98 operating systems. MSN Internet Access is available only for personal non-commercial use. Local phone and/or long distance toll charges may apply. It is the customer's responsibility to check with a local phone company to determine if access numbers are local. Local market network activity and capacity may affect access availability. MSN is a trademark of Microsoft Corporation. In the event that we are unable to register you for Internet service on the date of purchase, we will offer a mail-in rebate for the same amount. Additional conditions and restrictions apply. See product offer and store for additional details.
Then do like the article suggests and buy a refrigerator with the money. They'll let you spend it on anything in their stores!
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
If Microsoft had wanted to they would have simply said "offer not valid in California or Oregon", but they didn't want to lose the VERY large and VERY lucrative market that is California. Microsoft is betting that most people won't bother to take advantage of the laws of the state they live in. If they're willing to take that bet, they need to be willing to accept that they're going to take the occasional loss.
Due to the wording, Microsoft is lending the money to the customers. Lending laws in CA and OR prohibit forcing people to purchase anything in conjunction with a loan. Therefore, sign-up for MSN service, get your loan, cancel MSN service, keep the loan money. Try not to mess up that order though.
Personally, i would not chance anything with M$ though, especially when it comes to their money. I would rather have police raiding me for my micro-recorders than microsoft knocking on my door or sitting in my mailbox.
Sig-"Out beyond fields of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there." Jelaluddin Rumi
Use a webcertificate. www.webcertificate.com
It's essentially a Mastercard number, with a limit set at the actual amount you have in the certificate.
Example: I deposit $100 into a webcertifcate. Now I can use that number online (or somewhere where I just need to write a number down) for up to $100 worth of charges. If someone queries on it, anything less than $100 will be okay (until that amount goes down by actually being charged).
They come in very handy for paying something online where you don't want to be ripped off. Deposit a given amount that will cover what you wish to buy. They CAN'T charge you any more than that.. Pretty nifty.
---
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Yes, MS gets around the "no purchase required" by making it a loan. However, because they call it a loan, you may still have to pay it back! It's not that they are giving you free money, just that they are loaning it to you, and your loan is payed back as internet access fees.
True, IANAL, but that's my interpretation of the Staples contract at this link.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Yes, they do give you 400 dollars store credit but the thing is when you go home and cancel, they charge you a 50 dopllar cancellation fee. So you only really effectively make 350.
The process is, go sign up, buy stuff, go home, cancel, keep stuff, pay 50 dollar cancel fee.
Yes it does work, i have done it before, and several of my friends have also done it
A friend of mine recently decided to give this a try. Pending his results, I may do the same. He decided to go to http://www.freemonitors.com, which tells you all about the MS - Viewsonic rebate, and has a complete copy of the terms and conditions per MS. The part that everybody's excited about:
"if for any reason whatsoever you do not continue for the period of time associated with the credit that you have elected to receive, you agree that you will repay MSN the amount of the credit immediately upon termination or cancellation of your MSN Internet Access account; provided that if you are a resident of California or Oregon you will not be required to repay the credit amount."
Whew. That was a mouthful. Anyway, it's there. Plain and simple. I wouldn't doubt that they only give you 12 dollars a month for the rest of forever, but it's still kinda cool if you live in CA or OR.
Sure, I have a thankless job. That's okay. I have a lot of (non
Sec. 42-110b-19. Advertising "free," "reduced," "discount," "below cost," or a rebate
It shall be an unfair or deceptive act or practice to:
(a) Advertise any merchandise or service as free by the use of the word "free" or any other terms of similar import when the merchandise or service is not, in fact, free (see (d) below). Failure to disclose any and all terms, conditions and obligations required of the consumer shall be a violation of these regulations.
(b) Advertise the price of merchandise or service as a reduced or sale price, or compare the price to a previous price unless the advertised price is lower than the actual, bona fide price for which the merchandise or service was offered to the public on a regular basis by the advertiser, for a reasonably substantial period of time prior to the advertisement or as a discount price, unless the advertised price is lower than. the price being charged for the same merchandise or service by other sellers in the area; provided, however, in the case of a new product, if the advertised price is less than the price which the advertiser, in good faith, expects to charge after termination of the introductory sale, there is no violation of this subsection. The actual price after the sale shall be evidence of the advertiser's good faith expectations.
(c) Advertise the price of any merchandise as below cost, unless the price is, in fact, below the cost for which the merchandise was purchased and prepared for sale by the advertiser.
(d) Advertise merchandise or service as free or the price of merchandise or a service as a discount, reduced, or sale price if receipt of such merchandise or service is contingent upon the purchase of other merchandise or service at a price which is higher than the actual, bona fide price at which the merchandise or service was offered to the public on a regular basis by the advertiser for a reasonably substantial period of time prior to the advertisement, or at a price which is substantially higher than the price being charged for the same merchandise or service by other sellers in the area; provided, however, in the case of a new product, if the advertised price is less than the price which the advertiser, in good faith, expects to charge after termination of the introductory sale, there is no violation of this subsection. The actual price after the sale shall be evidence of the advertiser's good faith expectations.
(e) Advertise the availability of a manufacturer's rebate by displaying the net price of the advertised item in the advertisement, unless the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is provided to the consumer by the retailer at the time of purchase of the advertised item. A retailer will not be required to provide the purchaser of an advertised item with the amount of the manufacturer's rebate if the rebate advertises that a manufacturer's rebate is available without stating the net price of the item. For the purpose of this subsection, "net price" means the ultimate price paid by a consumer after he redeems the manufacturer's rebate offered for the advertised item.
It is because of deals like this (I think Compuserve also has something similar?) that lower income families are able to afford a first time low class computer.
Nice sentiment, but it doesn't quite work. $21.95/month for 3 years is a lot of money for a low income family. In fact, that totals up to almost $800 at the end of the 3 years.
From the application: Only one credit per address will be allowed. Multiple credit requests will not be accepted.
Ah, see, it's called "hyberbole" -- using exageration for effect.
It's usually used, as is the case here, for humorous effect.
This sounds (like many US laws) very very flexible and open to the whims of the court. I wouldn't put it below M$ to try to $way the courts there in their favor. Are there lawyers out there that could comment on this (the cited code, not the joking allegation of bribery)?
I concur.
I used to work for a credit card company and MSN was very difficult to stop, they kept submitting rebuttles, asking for proof of cancellation, anything to prolong and hope the customer would give up (or so it seemed).
-- 100% MS-Free as of 4-4-1999, 11:47:38 PST. "The lapdance is always better when the stripper is cryin'" Free Kevin,
I think it is time for all of us non-California/Oregon residents to call our state representatives and ask them to pass a law like CA and OR have! Then we can take advantage of $400 free money from Microsoft too.
When we got there, the salesman said that it was out of stock. My sister asked if any other stores had it. The salesman went away to check, and came back and said no. I asked about a rain check, and the salesman said it was discontinued. I pointed out that since they advertised it without any restrictions like "quantities are limited" or "while supplies last", that they would have to make good on it. He went to fetch the manager, who asked if we would be satisfied with a different computer. I said sure, as long as it was comparable.
After a long wait, the manager produced a much better HP Pavilion (faster CPU, more memory, bigger hard drive, and a CD-RW) which listed for $300 more. She discounted it by $350 to match the price, including the $50 OfficeMax rebate that had been offered on the other CPU. My sister got a much better system for the same $429 price. And when we set up the computer at her office, we found that there was a $50 rebate coupon from HP for the CPU inside the box!
Anyhow, while I was studying the flier about the MSN rebate, I noticed the language about CA and OR residents. When we opened the actual MSN signup envelope, we found that it included two separate legal agreements, one for residents of CA and OR only, and one for everyone else. I don't have them here to study in detail or quote, but a quick glance seemed to confirm that if I made a purchase myself that I would receive the rebate but not be obligated to continue the service, and would not have to repay the rebate.
I almost bought a second computer of the same type for myself. It looks like I could have gotten the same nicer HP Pavilion as my sister (without the monitor and printer) for about $99 plus CO sales tax plus $21.95 for one month's MSN service. I didn't do it because I didn't have an extra $600 at the time, and I was doubtful that it would make a good Linux box since it uses some strange combination modem and sound card.
So I don't have proof that CA and OR residents can take MSN for $388, but it sure looks that way. Even if it's legal, I haven't convinced myself that it's ethical.
You know, when adults cut a deal, they should hold up their end.
The whole idea that someone would drop that because Microsoft was at the other end is just sick. I don't steal from my friends, and I don't steal from my enemies either. I don't do things like that because they're wrong.
I guess nobody here ever paid for shareware either. I thought this was supposed to be a community that was reasonable even without government intervention. Maybe I was wrong. *sigh*