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$400 Free From Microsoft for Californians
Jon writes "California and Oregon residents can get out of the 3 yr commitment to MSN and keep the $400 rebate available at Best Buy, OfficeMax, Office Depot and Staples." If anyone can confirm that this actually works I'd like to hear it, but if nothing less, its pretty amusing.
Or better yet, if every Californian does this, we'll have $14 billion, which we can use to make a competing company to write better software. Say, "Macrosoft".
--- Dirtside | "Spirituality" is the irrational belief in the supernatural
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
I think Microsoft may just wait until some slightly higher profile person does this and then challenge it in court and make a public example of them. Remember you may not matter but that dosn't mean that they are not paying attention to you.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
Even better news is that according to the article is that you don't have to apply the rebate to a new computer like they imply in their ad, but simply have to have spent as much money as the rebate is worth (i.e. No cash back).
Personally, if I were in California I'd be getting myself a nice new jumbo sized hard drive on Microsoft.
I'm just curious why this article was posted on Slashdot. There's no angle to BASH Microsoft here. What are the Linux zealots to do?
It has nothing to do with Linux in any way just about people who don't want to use MSN as their ISP or have to stay with them for a period of 3 years. Why should I sign up for MSN when I could say have a DSL or cable or even a T-1 and use a closer, better, faster, more courteous ISP than MSN?
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
It's funny. They way they word these "savings" ads. It sounds like you're saving $400 or whatever off your computer purchase for example, if you sign up for MSN or AOL (which I've also seen) or some such. But the time you sign up for one of these services costs the same amount of money you supposedly "save."
I suppose you do save something in a sense, but when it comes down to it, it's just brainwashing you to sign up for a service you don't need.
-- DuckWing
I think CompuServer and Juno are offering similar rebates,it looks lke a great way for Californian's to steal $400.
George
After all, $400 takes a big chunk of expense out of a low-end machine, and just about any of those crummy E-Machines units would still make a decent firewall/router etc.
Moreover, the $400 isn't so much money that I wouldn't be willing to take the chance on getting burned.
I mean, if they pull a 180 and enforce a cancellation penalty, I'm still not so badly off . . . and if they don't enforce, I get a free computer!
Somebody give this a try & let us know how it works out.
I have no
Let's see...
MS-DOS 6.0...$90
Windows 3.1..$90
Windows 95...$90
Windows 98...$90
90+90+90+90=$360
I'll take the 40 bucks and we'll call it even.
So, we can go to Best Buy, and pick up our favorite boxed Linux distribution, /and/ get Microsoft to not only pay for it but hand us @$360 to put in our pocket? heh, sweet...
Jazilla.org - the Java Mozilla
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Regardless of whether or not Microsoft is paying for the rebate or not, there is profit being made by OfficeMax or Best Buy. These companies sell crappy prepackaged component machines (like Packard Bell) through unskilled, uninformed salespeople. These are the companies responsible for selling the public on the idea of proprietary software. These companies reduce profits for hardware manufacturers and encourage marketing hype over quality product. It's more important to be moral than get free money. Don't give your money to people like this. Please.
It honestly amazes me that one of our own AC has taken the effort to create a forum for his odd, yet strikingly funny posts. I hope you continue the 'serial' in the new forum, lest you be (-1 Offtopic)'ed to death here.
Strangly enough, 'fat-time and lubie' isn't nearly the craziest thing I've seen grab a following of viewers.
.sig: Now legally binding!
Could you just get tons of stuff free by repeating
the process and always buying ~$350 of computer
equipment?
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
Would our California and Oregon bretheren be willing to buy the rest of us cheap computers and upgrades? There's a $100 a piece in it for ya, and we'll pay shipping.
Hmmm, it's getting very interesting. First we had to buy our computers and ISP subscriptions. Now we can get free computers for ISP subscriptions and free Internet access with the purchase of a computer. Dare I speculate that free PCs and free access are next? Well, at the cost of personal information. Hmm.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
``Our experience to date is that it's been a very popular program,'' Pilla said. ``We haven't seen that . . . and we don't expect to see that, basically because we think that the value that we're offering customers, as we've seen from the many sign-ups, is tremendous.''
This is most likely because anyone who has little enough knowledge of computer hardware to buy a prepackaged system at Best Buy, etc. is the same type of person who also lacks the experience to know a good ISP when they see one!
Eric
I mean, it would make more sense that way.
I have no
On the contrary, for those so inclined, this presents on opportunity to bash Microsoft financially.
Just gather up your family, friends and neighbors, and all go shopping at one of the participating stores. Pick out $400 worth of merchandise and get the instant rebate. Make sure to cancel right away.
Is there any limitation on how often one can participate? If not: lather, rinse, repeat.
You might be able to get $400 worth of stuff courtesy of Microsoft every day if you wanted to.
For all those who were not able to get a rebate for an unused copy of Windows, here's an opportunity to get an in kind refund.
I'm from Colorado. legally speaking, does anyone know whether you can pull this off in other states? The article indicated that it was only for cali and oregon.
Would there be a way to mail order a computer from another state?
Post replies if you have any ideas to take advantage of such deals!
you mean I could buy a large piece of MicroSoft software ... and actually end up paying what it's really worth?
In the article it says they discussed this with people at the mentioned stores but does it really work? I live in California and I really really don't want to get stuck with MSN for any amount of time (much less 4 years. LMK thanx
Here's the link the best buy's website that contains the actual "fine print" on this little matter... http://www.bestbuy.com/weeklyad/fineprint/index.as p Now an excerpt from the page... The credit card will be automatically billed $21.95 each month. You are not obligated to continue as an MSN Internet Access member for any particular length of time; however, if for any reason whatsoever you do not continue for the period of time associated with the purchase credit that you have elected to receive, you agree that MSN will charge your credit card for the entire amount of the purchase credit immediately upon termination or cancellation of your MSN Internet Access account; provided that if you are a resident of California or Oregon you will not be required to repay the credit amount. ... so, it does work. mmmmmm new camera
A copy of the rebate form can be found here:m snoffer/contract_co_reb.asp
http://www.staples.com/products/themes/microsoft/
I noticed the words "advance" and "lend" are used. Sounds like MS wants their $$ back if you cancel early. Notice how they don't use the word "rebate" so when you ask them if early cancelation affects the rebate they can answer "No" because its a loan not a rebate. (Did that make any sense?) Microsoft offered this deal last year with Viewsonic monitors. A post on www.deal-finder.com indicated that MS wouldn't allow you to take advantage of the rebate if you canceled. I don't think MS is dumb enough to give away $400. But who knows?
I have to admit that I am leaning towards running out and buying $401 worth of something at Best Buy and sticking it to the man.
But in more honest moments, I suspect that I am using my pent up hostility toward Microsoft to cover up the fact that I would be stealing.
"But wait!" you cry. "This is Microsoft's fault. They are the ones that left the loophole in their contract."
That's like blaming the kid who's bike you stole because he didn't lock it up. It certainly doesn't make your actions any more noble.
Microsoft is easy to hate sometimes. But I'm trying not to become just like them -- willing to make a buck anyway possible at the expense of others.
We know how these programs are supposed to work. Even if the ISP service costs about the same, you get a deferred, interest-free loan on a low-cost PC. It has allowed many people (my sister included) to get a PC when otherwise they may not have been able to. This in a Good ThingTM. I would hate to see these programs cancelled due to abuse.
HipNerd
Hipnerd
Too bad I live in WI...
_______
I just wish I could c:\format Internet
It's dissapointing to see people looking for an easy chunk of change to make via this loophole. Typical slashdot "Let's rip off Microsoft" response aside I think this is a pretty good deal for the average consumer. It is because of deals like this (I think Compuserve also has something similar?) that lower income families are able to afford a first time low class computer. Please don't "screw" MSN over this, it'll just end up hurting a lot of future possible computer users if MSN closes this deal offering.
So could I just drive down to California, buy myself a computer, and get the $400? Can I get away with this cause they have to abide by the California law? Or does this only apply to California residents? Either case, it'll be nice to get my relatives to get me a new computer for $399+tax (yes, tax is included in the $400 deal). I can always strip it for parts. Hmm, and it's on a per-individual basis, not per family. Let's see, 3 relatives 18+ in california=3 new computers free!!
Here is the fine print from the Best Buy ad -- as you can clearly see it states that CA and OR residents aren't responsible for paying back anything if they cancel!
INSTANTLY SAVE UP TO $400 ON ANY COMPUTER (excludes prior purchases) WHEN YOU SIGN UP IN STORE FOR UP TO 3 YEARS OF MSN INTERNET ACCESS AT JUST $21.95 A MONTH. Details of the MSN Instant Credit Program for Best Buy. The MSN Instant Credit program requires: (1) the purchase of a personal computer, notebook, or built-to-order PC, (excludes prior purchases), totaling in excess of the selected credit amount (sales tax will apply to the total purchase price including mail-in rebates and add-ons, as applicable) from Best Buy between January 2, 1999, and February 29, 2000; (2) selection of a 36-month membership to MSN Internet Access ($400 credit), 24-month membership ($225 credit), or 12-month membership ($100 credit) at the rate of $21.95 per month plus applicable taxes; (3) in-store signup at the time of purchase; (4) a valid major credit card (Visa, MasterCard, Discover/Novus, American Express accepted; Best Buy credit card or debit cards cannot be used with this offer); and (5) acceptance of the MSN Internet Access member agreement. The credit card will be automatically billed $21.95 each month. You are not obligated to continue as an MSN Internet Access member for any particular length of time; however, if for any reason whatsoever you do not continue for the period of time associated with the purchase credit that you have elected to receive, you agree that MSN will charge your credit card for the entire amount of the purchase credit immediately upon termination or cancellation of your MSN Internet Access account; provided that if you are a resident of California or Oregon you will not be required to repay the credit amount. Your social security number is required for processing your credit. You must be 18 years old or older to qualify for the MSN Instant Credit Program. Offer valid only on new MSN account established in store at time of PC purchase. MSN Internet Access is available only to users of the Windows® 95 or 98 operating systems. MSN Internet Access is available only for personal non-commercial use. Local phone and/or long distance toll charges may apply. It is the customer's responsibility to check with a local phone company to determine if access numbers are local. Local market network activity and capacity may affect access availability. MSN is a trademark of Microsoft Corporation. In the event that we are unable to register you for Internet service on the date of purchase, we will offer a mail-in rebate for the same amount. Additional conditions and restrictions apply. See product offer and store for additional details.
...to deplete MS's cash hoard and deprive them of one of their biggest strengths.
All we need is 50 million people (roughly) to take advantage of this, and MS's $20 billion should be whittled down in no time!
So how does this affect other provdiers, such as CompuServe's $399 rebate at Circuit City and other stores? I haven't done my homework on these rebates/loans, but from the advertisements, Compuserve's seems to be an actual rebate and not a loan.
Personally, "saving" $400 isn't worth any amount of time with a bad service provider, but then again, I'm not your average Circuit City/Best Buy/CompUSA computer customer, either.
Then do like the article suggests and buy a refrigerator with the money. They'll let you spend it on anything in their stores!
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
Basically, it really doesn't matter. Keep in mind, according to the Federal Government, you are a resident of the state you claim you're a resident in. Basically, if you claim to be a resident of California, you're a resident of california.
But there's an ugly side to this. That being, you can only be a resident of one state at a time. And your residency effects things like automobile titles, as well as income tax returns. I think this stems from a case where an individual who lived and worked in two seperate states was found able to choose which state he owed income tax to.
What the sig means is that, on average, you will always lose money playing the lottery. Yes, some people will win, but if you total the amount of money spent on lottery tickets, N, and the total amount of money paid out by the state to the winners, X, you will find that N > X. Simple arithmetic then tells you that the average person loses money on the lottery, no matter what. Assume the population of lottery players is P; then the average person has spent N/P on the lottery, and has won X/P. N/P > X/P. Therefore you spend more than you win. Yes, SOME people will hit it big, but on average it's a losing gamble.
Just because there are only two options (win and lose) does not mean that the probabilities are equal. If this isn't blindingly obvious, then, well, sorry, but you shouldn't be posting on Slashdot.
--- Dirtside | "Spirituality" is the irrational belief in the supernatural
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Check out http://www.mer curycenter.com/svtech/news/indepth/docs/best010500 .htm for more info about this.
If Microsoft had wanted to they would have simply said "offer not valid in California or Oregon", but they didn't want to lose the VERY large and VERY lucrative market that is California. Microsoft is betting that most people won't bother to take advantage of the laws of the state they live in. If they're willing to take that bet, they need to be willing to accept that they're going to take the occasional loss.
Due to the wording, Microsoft is lending the money to the customers. Lending laws in CA and OR prohibit forcing people to purchase anything in conjunction with a loan. Therefore, sign-up for MSN service, get your loan, cancel MSN service, keep the loan money. Try not to mess up that order though.
Personally, i would not chance anything with M$ though, especially when it comes to their money. I would rather have police raiding me for my micro-recorders than microsoft knocking on my door or sitting in my mailbox.
Sig-"Out beyond fields of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there." Jelaluddin Rumi
Now then, if lots of people cancel out, then they lost their bet. Fair and square. If almost nobody cancels out, then they win their bet. Also fair and square.
You can't tell me that MS didn't research this. They research EVERYTHING!
It was a gamble, MS knew it, so if we can take advantage of it -- good! Nobody is breaking any laws, nobody is getting screwed by accident. They took their chances, and now we get to take our turn at the table . . .
Besides which, this is only in two states. MS (and CompuServe, and AOL, etc. etc.) is busy screwing everyone else in every other state with these deals, so it's only fair that at least some consumers get a chance at the bonus.
I have no
Umm...no offense (I do love your sig), but I think the AC above was joking...at least I hope so. It was actually pretty funny. You know...like the mindset of the people who actually play it.
I'll never forget the math professor (one of my personal heroes...D'Angelo if you happen to go to my school...and you know who you are...) said, "I don't understand what so many people here have against the lottery. I love the lottery -- it's a tax on stupid people! What could be better?"
I just printed out the form from Staples and my understanding is that you have to purchase something first and then apply for the rebate. I'm in CA, so I'm thinking about trying this...
OliverWillis.Com
An Operative with an Agenda
Use a webcertificate. www.webcertificate.com
It's essentially a Mastercard number, with a limit set at the actual amount you have in the certificate.
Example: I deposit $100 into a webcertifcate. Now I can use that number online (or somewhere where I just need to write a number down) for up to $100 worth of charges. If someone queries on it, anything less than $100 will be okay (until that amount goes down by actually being charged).
They come in very handy for paying something online where you don't want to be ripped off. Deposit a given amount that will cover what you wish to buy. They CAN'T charge you any more than that.. Pretty nifty.
---
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Anycase...
Connecticut has a Rebate Advertising law requiring retailers who advertise the net price of an item after deduction of a manufacturer's rebate to pay consumers the amount of that rebate when they buy the item. If the retailers don't wish to do this, they cannot advertise the after-rebate price as the final price to be paid by the consumer. Thus, there should be no confusion about the amount the customer must pay at the cash register.
In other words, if a retailer says a computer is $0 after rebate, they must give it to you for $0, no strings attached. No lifetime of MSN or Compuserve.
Outpost.com was advertising computers for $0 after rebate and because they are a retailer in Connecticut, they were forced to give computers out at $0.
Check with your state's Consumer Protection Department to see if they have any laws like the one in CT.
Yes, MS gets around the "no purchase required" by making it a loan. However, because they call it a loan, you may still have to pay it back! It's not that they are giving you free money, just that they are loaning it to you, and your loan is payed back as internet access fees.
True, IANAL, but that's my interpretation of the Staples contract at this link.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Yes, they do give you 400 dollars store credit but the thing is when you go home and cancel, they charge you a 50 dopllar cancellation fee. So you only really effectively make 350.
The process is, go sign up, buy stuff, go home, cancel, keep stuff, pay 50 dollar cancel fee.
Yes it does work, i have done it before, and several of my friends have also done it
Of course, if you come from the Frank Zappa school of probability then the odds of anything happening are 50/50, either it happens or it doesn't.
So if I buy a lottery ticket, either I win or I don't, 50/50.
The chance that I walk out of my office and get eaten by a hippopatumus is 50/50. Either it happens or it doesn't.
"oohhh... I didn't know Schopenhauer was a philosopher!"
You should be able to do this regardless. IANAL, but I've heard from several different sources that, as long as you whip the drive of your new PC on the very first boot (ie, never booting the PC with Windows), you are entitled to a refund through Microsoft (or is it the PC vendor...one or the other) because you rejected the terms of the EULA.
"Nobody owns the fucking words man." - James Dean
A friend of mine recently decided to give this a try. Pending his results, I may do the same. He decided to go to http://www.freemonitors.com, which tells you all about the MS - Viewsonic rebate, and has a complete copy of the terms and conditions per MS. The part that everybody's excited about:
"if for any reason whatsoever you do not continue for the period of time associated with the credit that you have elected to receive, you agree that you will repay MSN the amount of the credit immediately upon termination or cancellation of your MSN Internet Access account; provided that if you are a resident of California or Oregon you will not be required to repay the credit amount."
Whew. That was a mouthful. Anyway, it's there. Plain and simple. I wouldn't doubt that they only give you 12 dollars a month for the rest of forever, but it's still kinda cool if you live in CA or OR.
Sure, I have a thankless job. That's okay. I have a lot of (non
Sec. 42-110b-19. Advertising "free," "reduced," "discount," "below cost," or a rebate
It shall be an unfair or deceptive act or practice to:
(a) Advertise any merchandise or service as free by the use of the word "free" or any other terms of similar import when the merchandise or service is not, in fact, free (see (d) below). Failure to disclose any and all terms, conditions and obligations required of the consumer shall be a violation of these regulations.
(b) Advertise the price of merchandise or service as a reduced or sale price, or compare the price to a previous price unless the advertised price is lower than the actual, bona fide price for which the merchandise or service was offered to the public on a regular basis by the advertiser, for a reasonably substantial period of time prior to the advertisement or as a discount price, unless the advertised price is lower than. the price being charged for the same merchandise or service by other sellers in the area; provided, however, in the case of a new product, if the advertised price is less than the price which the advertiser, in good faith, expects to charge after termination of the introductory sale, there is no violation of this subsection. The actual price after the sale shall be evidence of the advertiser's good faith expectations.
(c) Advertise the price of any merchandise as below cost, unless the price is, in fact, below the cost for which the merchandise was purchased and prepared for sale by the advertiser.
(d) Advertise merchandise or service as free or the price of merchandise or a service as a discount, reduced, or sale price if receipt of such merchandise or service is contingent upon the purchase of other merchandise or service at a price which is higher than the actual, bona fide price at which the merchandise or service was offered to the public on a regular basis by the advertiser for a reasonably substantial period of time prior to the advertisement, or at a price which is substantially higher than the price being charged for the same merchandise or service by other sellers in the area; provided, however, in the case of a new product, if the advertised price is less than the price which the advertiser, in good faith, expects to charge after termination of the introductory sale, there is no violation of this subsection. The actual price after the sale shall be evidence of the advertiser's good faith expectations.
(e) Advertise the availability of a manufacturer's rebate by displaying the net price of the advertised item in the advertisement, unless the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is provided to the consumer by the retailer at the time of purchase of the advertised item. A retailer will not be required to provide the purchaser of an advertised item with the amount of the manufacturer's rebate if the rebate advertises that a manufacturer's rebate is available without stating the net price of the item. For the purpose of this subsection, "net price" means the ultimate price paid by a consumer after he redeems the manufacturer's rebate offered for the advertised item.
MS already makes any number of grants to schools; here's another one, apparently... an excellent chance for inner city schools to finally "catch up" and equip some of their classrooms with modern machines. Hmmm... not just the schools, either. How about the students? "Mom, see, Microsoft is giving away free computers..."
What about charitable organizations that are continually strapped for donations - the Salvation Army, women's shelters, homeless shelters, minority education programs, ...
"Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgement." Job 32:9
address. Does that make me eligible for this offer too?
Say no to software patents.
From the application: Only one credit per address will be allowed. Multiple credit requests will not be accepted.
(score 0, offtopic)
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Surely this would be abusing a loop-hole in the legal system for financial gain; Something that this community is up in arms about when it's a big corporation trying to crush the 'righteous'.
Food for thought...
--
The gift of death metal does not smile on the good looking.
Basicly law A says that law B is false and law B says that law A is true. M$ is pulling catch-22 on us!
Ah, see, it's called "hyberbole" -- using exageration for effect.
It's usually used, as is the case here, for humorous effect.
This sounds (like many US laws) very very flexible and open to the whims of the court. I wouldn't put it below M$ to try to $way the courts there in their favor. Are there lawyers out there that could comment on this (the cited code, not the joking allegation of bribery)?
It has nothing to do with Linux in any way just about people who don't want to use MSN as their ISP or have to stay with them for a period of 3 years.
Er, maybe it's just me, but I think their solution would be more along the lines of "Don't take the deal in the first place".
The real conundrum here is why the moronic post I'm replying to was actually moderated up. The "point" made is bogus, and worth being moderated down.
--
Kevin Doherty
kdoherty+slashdot@jurai.net
Kevin Doherty
kdoherty+slashdot@jurai.net
Also the repayment appears to be charged on to your credit card, couldn't you just cancel your credit card and then cancel MSN so they can't charge you? I guess then they may just send some collection agency after you.
some free DVD's. Thanks Bill. See you in hell.
A decent Network is finally here.
I'm in California, and my father in law did the same thing, inadvertently. The credit card he used to pay for the MSN expired, and they cancelled his MSN service.. hehe.. but they never collected any more money from him. Interesting. :)
:)
I'm off to Best Buy, woo hoo.
SpamapS -- Undernet #Linuxhelp
I wonder if you can go to all of the stores and sign up, or even go back to the same store day after day and get $400 each time?
Unfortunately, it is more like a tax on uneducated people (a regressive tax which, ironically, is justifed as a way to pay for more public education) Wealthy people have accountants (as a last resort) who TELL them it is a losing battle, even if they are actually stupid. I know many a doctor, lawyer, etc. who play the lottery because they think it ISN'T such a bad bet!
:-)
Of course, my scientist friend-of-a-friend's Grandma played the Lotto, and he kept trying to convince her it was an awful waste of money, until she won $14 million.
And cigarette's are really just an even MORE regressive tax.
"It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
I think it is time for all of us non-California/Oregon residents to call our state representatives and ask them to pass a law like CA and OR have! Then we can take advantage of $400 free money from Microsoft too.
how about being an honest hard worker? if your the type of scum that gets excited about reading something like this in hopes of doing it yourself then you're no better than all the fools involved in the ridiculous lawsuits today (blind suing websites, parents suing pokemon, etc.) , then again screwing microsoft sure sounds fun (j/k)!
When we got there, the salesman said that it was out of stock. My sister asked if any other stores had it. The salesman went away to check, and came back and said no. I asked about a rain check, and the salesman said it was discontinued. I pointed out that since they advertised it without any restrictions like "quantities are limited" or "while supplies last", that they would have to make good on it. He went to fetch the manager, who asked if we would be satisfied with a different computer. I said sure, as long as it was comparable.
After a long wait, the manager produced a much better HP Pavilion (faster CPU, more memory, bigger hard drive, and a CD-RW) which listed for $300 more. She discounted it by $350 to match the price, including the $50 OfficeMax rebate that had been offered on the other CPU. My sister got a much better system for the same $429 price. And when we set up the computer at her office, we found that there was a $50 rebate coupon from HP for the CPU inside the box!
Anyhow, while I was studying the flier about the MSN rebate, I noticed the language about CA and OR residents. When we opened the actual MSN signup envelope, we found that it included two separate legal agreements, one for residents of CA and OR only, and one for everyone else. I don't have them here to study in detail or quote, but a quick glance seemed to confirm that if I made a purchase myself that I would receive the rebate but not be obligated to continue the service, and would not have to repay the rebate.
I almost bought a second computer of the same type for myself. It looks like I could have gotten the same nicer HP Pavilion as my sister (without the monitor and printer) for about $99 plus CO sales tax plus $21.95 for one month's MSN service. I didn't do it because I didn't have an extra $600 at the time, and I was doubtful that it would make a good Linux box since it uses some strange combination modem and sound card.
So I don't have proof that CA and OR residents can take MSN for $388, but it sure looks that way. Even if it's legal, I haven't convinced myself that it's ethical.
Compuserv has offered the same deal: $400 rebate for a 3 year committment on a new computer. They have offered it for atleast 6 monthes in California (i live in california, i have no idea if they have it in other states, but they probally do)
You know, when adults cut a deal, they should hold up their end.
The whole idea that someone would drop that because Microsoft was at the other end is just sick. I don't steal from my friends, and I don't steal from my enemies either. I don't do things like that because they're wrong.
I guess nobody here ever paid for shareware either. I thought this was supposed to be a community that was reasonable even without government intervention. Maybe I was wrong. *sigh*
Ever since Toy Story and Toy Story II, ehenever I hearr the phraze "Linux zealots" I visualize a crowd of three-eyed penguins saying thins like "The Mystic Kernel. OOOOOOOOOOH."
CA sales tax sucks, come on over to Oregon, we don't have a tax. :)
der dee der.
The "rebate" is not a "rebate" or a "refund". It is an instant credit and the documentation from best buy as well as my experience warrents it as such. When you check out, they take 400 off the purchase price. Period. This is considered a loan under california law, and MS can therefore not require you to repay it. I will be experimenting with this tonight to see exactly what happens. I will let you know of my purchases and results.
"They have computers and other weapons of mass destruction" -US Attorney General Janet Reno
Well, I live in Oregon, and there's an officemax in my town. Think I'll go buy a cd burner, a new harddrive, and something else if that doesnt total 400 dollars. I'll try to make it cost like $405. So I pay 5 dollars at the store, cancel my damn msn contract, and get all that cool stuff for 5 bucks. If that isn't 100% pure sweetness, then I just don't know what is. :)
Joseph?
California Consumers Legal Remedies Act
Calfornia Civil Code 1770. Unlawful practices
(a) The following unfair methods of competition and unfair or deceptive
acts or practices undertaken by any person in a transaction intended to
result or which results in the sale or lease of goods or services to any
consumer are unlawful:
(17) Representing that the consumer will receive a rebate, discount, or
other economic benefit, if the earning of the benefit is contingent on an
event to occur subsequent to the consummation of the transaction.
uh... (smile) does this reverse my normal score of 0 ? ~@~
So if you think that they're unethical, then what you're doing is sinking to their level. You're a class act, all right.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Still not satisfied, I dug into the packet (which was interestingly labeled MSN Internet Rebate Non P.C. Oregon and California only). After looking for the key phrase mentioned in the article up on mercurycenter.com, I was left somewhat disappointed. At the very bottom of the Terms and Conditions on the MSN Instant Purchase Assistance Application was the following verbage:
sigh, am I missing something? when will I learn...
bah, and i was getting very enthusiastic about all of this. I'm in California and when i saw this post on slashdot, i got very very hyper.. I mean a free computer.. that's better than the one i have. but of course, i see this message.. and am i dissapointed? YES! If anyone here has gotten this to work, and gotten the free computer... tell me so, i don't like hearing something that can be done.. I WANT TO SEE IT :P :)..
ok.. well that's my $400 worth of opinion
bye
I work at one of the retail stores mentioned in the article, and it might be worth mentioning that the article says "you don't have to repay the money". Thats all good and well, however in order to sign up you must use a credit card and if you cancel the 400 dollars is automatically billed to your credit card. So if your a californian, what do you do? Call the credit card company and contest the charge? I'd like to know..
My roommates and I heard about this on monday and tried it that night at office max. We had heard that the forms had been updated at some stores and not at others, but knew a few people who had done the deed. Went in and the forms had been updated with one form for CA/OR and one for the other states, also the rebate was changed to mail in only, not instant. this was in San Luis Obispo, CA
to email me: take my
2 27GB drives ($200 each) + 1 card ($50) = 54GB for $450. Once you subtract the $400 MS rebate, the cost for you is only $50. Where you got the $80 figure I don't know.
They now have a diffrent agreement for california and oregon residents. I went this evening after work to get me one,
.sigs suck, thus nothing here.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
I just came from Best Buy. Their customer rep said that if you cancel the ISP during the 1st year, you have a $400 cancellation fee. $200 during the 2nd and $100 during the third. You'll still make some money in the end, but not the full $400 like we all wish it would be. :(
Your actions on earth echo in eternity.
I personally would not trust MS with piece of data. Has anyone signed up without yielding this item?
disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
So I went to a local Best Buy in the bay area to check this out, and the place was quite a zoo. There was a separate line for people with the MSN instant rebates, and it was moving quite slowly; the sales manager had, at his discretion, limited the rebate to purchases of a single item (it sounds to me like the contract gives him the ability to do this, but it's really not very clear). The woman in front of me in line was quite upset about this, and claimed that stores in Milpitas and L.A. were allowing multiple-item purchases.
Best Buy was actually almost out of forms when I got there; however, my friend snagged a couple from somewhere in the back of the store. A woman I talked to up front was printing more out, but I am not sure if she actually got around to handing them out -- it seemed like they were trying to limit the number of people making purchases that day.
I hung around the front of the line for a while, and people were succesfully completing purchases (of a single, expensive item) with a rebate; they received their MSN accounts on the spot (oh boy). However, the line was moving at a snail's pace, and at around 8:15 someone announced on the PA that registers would close at 9:00 and they would not be able to process any more requests at that point. He explicitly stated that the program would continue through March, and suggested (pleaded) that people come back later. He made a similar announcement a few more times, although the closing time moved back to 9:15; my friends decided to take off, and I followed them, since I didn't want them to have to walk home. As we were leaving, one of my friends claimed he heard the sales manager say the Mercury would be printing a retraction tomorrow, but I cannot think of any reason to believe the sales manager. He seemed a little slimy. I suppose we'll find out more tomorrow.
I have read through the OR/CA offer thoroughly any number of times, and it seems very clear that the buyer is in no way obligated to repay MS in the event of cancellation, and the buyer is also not obliged to continue using MSN for any specific period of time. The offer is valid until 3/31/00; it seems to me that the only thing MS and Best Buy could do would be to switch to mail-in rebates, instead of instant credit (there is a line which says they may do that).
At any rate, pending any bizarre revelations, I plan to take advantage of this offer in the next few days. I would even be willing to get stuck with a month or two of MSN charges.
Myself, 4 of the guys from my department, and one other manager and developer all got caught up in the frenzy and stampeded en masse to the Best Buy down the street. The chronometer hit 5:00 PM and we were gone.
Once on location, I forged ahead and engaged BB personnel whilst my cohorts faded into the aisles. The pimply-faced chap in computers was immediately suspicious when I asked about the deal. His first question: "Who told you?" Grinning innocently, "Told me about what?" "Did somone from the store call you?" "No dude, it's all over the net." "Where?" "Slashdot." "Whats that?" Grin. "Nevermind."
I reviewed the contract for about 15 minutes and decided to plunge ahead. Blinded by peer pressure and the tantalizing proximity of so many easy goodies, the entire rest of the gang followed.
Since installing my loooovely new speakers and receiver, I've taken the time to really think about the possibilities here and carefully check the contract. I would humbly offer to the readership the following:
Of course, I see several potential risks. I think all of them are avoidable with minimal effort.
So, legally, I feel like I'm in the clear. The contract being offered 'lends' me a purchase credit of $400 to give MSN Internet Access 'a full and fair trial'. I fully intend to hold up my side of the bargin. Ethically, I also don't have any qualms about this. Most telling was the quote in the news article I read from the MSN guy, who was delightfully arrogant enough to basically say he was aware of the situation, but was so confident that people would love MSN that he wasn't concerned. Well, power to you, brother! I'm more than happy to give MSN a fair shake. God bless their little hearts. Of course, I'm going to have to borrow an external analog modem. I don't use one currently. :} -- calnetX-XX.gtecablemodem.com sd
I took MSN up on their offer too. However posting something like that is the wrong way to approach it. You're explicitly saying you intend to take up MSN on the no-obligation-'loan' without ever giving their service a fair trial.
This smells legally shaky to me, as well as ethically dubious.
Spin, baby, it's all about spin.
sd
One end of british columbia to the other, or one end of the USA to another? C'mon, hurry up and answer, I have to decide whether or not to buy tonight..
There's a followup article on MercuryCenter describing the mayhem at the Best Buy in Milpitas, and reaffirming Microsoft's position.
I've heard this gullible tax thing before, and I have to protest somewhat. I don't consider myself gullible, but I do play the lottery. Why? Because it's fun! It's fun to get that little ticket and think, no matter how poor the odds, that there might be a nice little prize under those little silver rub-off squares. I've certainly paid out more than I've won on the lottery, I have no illusions about that. But it's entertained me, and I don't really think paying for this form of entertainment makes me any more gullible than the guy who goes out and buys the latest wearable prototype computer that eventually joins the hardware stockpile on the basement floor with the TRS-80. It's all about having fun - the fun just takes different forms.
Chuck.
"So many ways to skin a cat, and still everyone uses a great big knife."
I'm not sure how this is *news* since at the local MicroCenter here in Columbus, Ohio, many of my techie friends got $400 in free computer stuff (anything in the store) by signing up for one of MSN's deals. In the original contract that these people signed (they made sure they could do it before trying it), it said that you could "cancel the service at any time." So, they got their $400 certificate for MicroCenter, bought their stuff, got home, called the people at MSN and canceled their account. All in the same day. How's that for free money?
[BTW, I should think this loophole has been since closed.]
Has anyone done this and cancelled yet?
OliverWillis.Com
An Operative with an Agenda
Its all real as far as I can tell so far. Here's what happened:
I did the MSN deal yesterday. The girl at the Best Buy cash register thought she messed up with the transaction since she kept getting an error message while trying to setup my account. So, she (thought) she cancelled the first try, and then started over.
Last night I realized that I had gotten two accounts since my receipt gave me the login of her first attempt. I was able to login using the first account. I called MS and they verified that I had been signed up for two accounts (I unfortunately only got $400 out of it - ONLY, that's funny).
When I told the MS operator the story and told her that I didn't want a $22 charge for the second account, she said, you won't be charged since you are cancelling it. Then she said, "but you'll have to pay MSN back the $400 credit". When I told her I was from CA she said, "Oh! Then you're fine. No problems."
She closed the (second) account without further questions.
Lessons:
1) You CAN cancel without any penalty
2) If you do you do not need to pay back the $400
3) They don't seem to be verifying that you are not signing up for multiple accounts (I did it by accident. Same name, address, credit card, etc.)
This is the golden goose gang. But if you run the software (we are after all being payed to at least look) watch out what MSN puts on your computer. I have no proof yet, but I'm almost positive that it scanned my system and then attempted to send a report to MS.If I was dialed in through MSN then they could now have my name, address, soc sec #, credit card #, system hardware config, OS version, what apps are on my system, and my Windows serial number. Usefull to MS I'd say.
Sorry so long. Lots of usefull info I hope.
No I have not done it yet, but I do have the number.
;-)
1-800-386-5550
or try this more general number I got from a Best Buy employee today. They sounded very tired.
1-800-373-3676
My office made a trip out of this. After lunch we decided to see if it worked. We trotted over to Best Buy, and walked out with quite a bit of new electronic equipment. Yes boys and girls, that's right... Best Buy allows you to buy ANYTHING in the store.
I walked out with a 27" PnP Sony TV for about $80 (after rebate). All we had to agree on was that we would give MSN a "fair trial", but the agreement explicitly states that you are under no obligation to complete the 3 year commitment. You may cancel at any time.
We got back to the office, called MSN, cancelled, and that was that. Upon our return, our remaining staff quickly dashed over to Best Buy to take advantage of this offer. If you're a CA or OR resident, jump on this while you can. Given the amount of people jumping on this bandwagon, and the amount of merchandise being sold (RAM, Sony DVD players, and misc computer equipment were already sold out when we arrived) I'd advise you to take advantage of this while you still can.
And for those paranoid that it may backfire, according to Best Buy's CA and OR contract you may return the items purchased for a full refund and cancellation of your MSN account without any repurcussions.
Just wanted to let everyone know that this thing is as real as it gets. It's like Christmas all over again!
Got a 27" tv and some little things, paid ten dollars and change. My friend bought a new dvd player and a soda for forty eight dolars and change. Yes, we are in California. Yes, we will be cancelling shortly. They ran out of the in-store rebate contracts, so they gave us the mail-in rebate ones but processed them at check-out. Perfect...though I don't feel to well about the post "Yes, it works by SolarisBoi (Score:1) Thu January 06, 07:32 PM PDT."
I work at Best Buy here in Calif. What people don't realize is that when they sign up, then cancel after the first month, they don't have to pay the $400 back...but they will get a black mark on their credit report from MSN. I don't think $400 worth of stuff is worth 7 years of credit headaches....but then thats just my opinion.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but in order for a company to put a black mark on your credit history, I believe that they have to be able to prove that they did due dilligence in attempting to get you to pay back any default.
If MS does not attempt to contact you and get the money back, then they are on shakey grounds with dinging people (especially if they do it to hundreds of people at once). Following this logic, if you are in threat of being dinged, then you will know about it first, and have the opportunity to deal with it before it happens.
So, Coffee Man, I am curious to know, how have you arrived at the conclusion that MSN will black mark people who quit early?
MSN giveaway explodes in Calif.
It's just as much fun if you don't buy a ticket. You just pick your numbers, and sit down in front of the TV as usual. Try it, it's just as exciting (if not more so), and cheaper.
:-)
I don't see any point in buying losing tickets. The only ticket worth buying is the winning one, so I'm gonna wait for that
The reason why I know that MS will black mark a person for joining and then quiting...is because i have talked directly to a MS rep. Also all today (Jan 7) MSN has been closed...and will more than likely go to a mail in reabate.
Microsoft has suspended its MSN rebate programs in California and Oregon because a contract provision unintentionally allows customers in those states to wring $400 out of the software giant.
See: Cnet
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