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LinuxOne's "LinuxMac 0.9" Investigated
The following was written by Slashdot reader Peter C. Norton
Scott Ananian (cananian@mit.edu) and I have been working with the LinuxOne "LinuxMac 0.9" product here at LinuxWorld Expo to figure out what's going on with the product, what it is, and whether there is value in their product. Scott was particularly interested and well informed about Macintosh hardware, since he works on maintaining the part of the kernel that supports Linux on Mac 68030 hardware (the old mac se/30, some the mac ii's, etc.).
In a way, we're following up on the information at: this page.
You'll see an assertion from a representative of LinuxOne that the LinuxMac product is a result of proprietary technology developed in a prior business by a company owned by the founder of LinuxOne. I can conclusively assert that based on using the pre-release of this product that this is currently completely false. Also, the program claims to be version 1.0, though the floppy says 0.9.
First of all, the floppy that they are selling to users contains a single RPM package, whose contents are as follows:
/root/Desktop/LinuxMac.kdelnk
/usr/local/bin/CLFormatter
/usr/local/bin/CommonLink
/usr/local/bin/cl
/usr/local/bin/cm
/usr/local/bin/hformat
/usr/share/common-link/linuxone-logo.bmp
The main program is CommonLink. Notice the "hformat" command? That's the utility that comes with the HFS Utilities that LinuxOne's representative claimed isn't even on their development network. However:
[root@col /root]# /usr/local/bin/hformat --license
This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details.
You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along
with this program; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc.,
675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA.
[root@col /root]#
There isn't any source code on the floppy, though, and I expect to be talking with LinuxOne about this.
Anyway, the CommonLink application itself is a KDE-based gui that talks launches a mounting application or a formatting application. Each one gives you the option to do these things with a "Windows 95" "Mac" or "Linux" option. The mounting application has no logic internally to mount any media. It calls the system-standard "mount" utility. Scott and I have confirmed this - there is no possibility that we're wrong about this. After mounting the floppy with the mount command, it invokes the KDE File Manager, KFM, to present the floppy to the end user. Conclusion: they wrote a very small gui in C++ to invoke standard utilities.
The second utility, the formatting program, calls the standard linux fdformat utility (a low level formatter to prepare a floppy for any use), and then it calls hformat to put a mac filesystem on it.
If a "quick erase" (ala the windows formatting stuff) is done, then it just runs:
hformat -l MacFloppy /dev/fd0H1440
Though if you put s space in the name after -l it breaks (a beginner's programming error).
Conclusion: This is just another simple gui which uses utilities which are not written, maintained, or contributed to by LinuxOne or its staff.
In short:
The LinuxMac product contains no proprietary technology. It relies on standard linux kernel modules for filesystems (confirmed through testing), and it relies on standard system utilities to access floppies (again, confirmed through testing).
In addition, the utilities are only useable by root. There is no way a user could use these utilities to format or mount a floppy without the root user making changes to the system.
Please let me know if you're interested in the details of the testing, or if you have any other questions.
Having read Accipiter's transcript, I feel amazingly sorry for the poor guy on the other end of the phone... but I can't help suspecting you've fallen for the oldest trick in the book...
The 'answer phrase' is the giveaway - "What division can I direct you to?" It's a call centre, guys - an answering service. I work in one, to pay the rent, and I'm constantly amazed by the number of people who can't grasp the concept of an answering service - other companies use us to answer their phones, give rudimentary information about their product, make them look like an international company with a giant switch, constantly ringing phones, etc...
It's corporate fraud on a huge scale.
But it's not particularly clever to pass judgement on LinuxOne (as much as it seems warranted!) based on the performance of another company and someone working at that company whose main skill is answering phones.
Incidentally, if you asked the same questions of a Windows salesman, would you get any more intelligent answers? Of course not. You're asking the wrong type of person.
Be nice to telephonists. They have to deal with... well, you.
No, that's Peter F. Norton. He doesn't have much involvement with the Utiltites company anymore, and he's a really nice guy.
-Peter (C. Norton)
== Just my opinion(s)
swindles? Huh? You missed one:
http://www.theswindle.com
...What can be adequatly explained by stupidity.
It's possable that they are more totally clueless than anything. Of course, that's still a very good reason to stay far away from any IPO from them.
It's also possable that there's fraud at the top and cluelessness on all levels below. Time will tell.
This entire LinuxMac situation may be poor taste, but unfortionatly, it is *NOT* against the law, nor breaking the GPL.
As long as they in some way supply you with the source for the binary that they call from their exe, they're all set.
You see, they're doing doing an exec of it. The actualy 'wrapper' that they are producing it indeed their own code, granted, I could write it in less then an hour in perl, or even as an sh script.
The short story.. While what they are doing is unethical, it is no way breaks the GPL, taking into consideration that they provide the source for the GPL utilities provided, which no one has, as of yet, proven the case of..
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Then they broke the law, and are not abiding by the laws of the GPL. The 'next step', now that they have voided their licence, is for the authors of above said tools to begin legal action.
The biggest impact would be to file a lawsuit for a good chunk of what they have sold, 'past damages' or something of that sort.
As of right now, they have no valid licence, as they have broken their legal contract with the authors of the tool.
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Seriously, if writing a GUI constitutes the proprietary development of an OS, then Windows must also be an OS. Hmmmm. Was the CEO of LinuxOne a friend of William Gates III at college?
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I'm wondering if LinuxOne has paid the licensing fee for use of QT in a proprietary product. The QPL prohibits proprietary software, so they can't develop it under that.
What is the developer version license again? Is it a whopping $1,550 per developer or something like that? I'd be interested to find out if someone has informed the folks at troll tech. They are already selling this product on their web site.
CmdrChalupa (Who knows not how to change his sig =)
CmdrChalupa, who finally changed his sig (drop -FlogSpammersNow- for my real address)
One would have to be careful, or else have a good lawyer on retainer, as LinuxOne would be obliged to sue to maintain any shred of credibility.
Yes, if it were truthful they'd probably lose. Though in any case it'd still cost the defendant considerable time and money to fight the lawsuit.
Seven for the Debian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Microsoft Men doomed to die,
LinuxOne for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mountain View, CA where the Shadows lie.
LinuxOne to ruin them all, LinuxOne to fail them,
LinuxOne to bring them all and in the darkness blind them....
In the Land of Mountain View where the Shadows and bad IPOs lie.
-- Seth Cohn
(Lifted from the LinuxOne flame archive.)
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Why can't they just point to the sources on somebody else's web site if they haven't made any modifications? Two reasons:
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
I missed the lynching threat but no doubt it's there. I would not suggest you take it as a racist sentiment, but more as an expression of how offended we are. I myself have proposed that LinuxOne Inc. be "run out of town on a rail", I don't know if that has any racist connotations.
Yes, you screwed up and you now have a whole lot to learn. To start with, I can direct you to an attorney in Palo Alto who can design your GPL compliance program, if you wish. Just write to me at bruce@perens.com .
The sentiments expressed here are not those of VA or Andover.net, that's something else you need to learn. But if you can turn the company around, I'm sure that will get coverage.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
"You are invited to come out at our expense to review our technology plan going forward."
Ironic. You posted that at 11:34am. You're willing to pay for his expenses in getting to you, but unless he's in your local area, the chances of him actually making it there to the meeting you're holding are almost nil. Or would you be willing to delay said meeting until his arrival?
"That we've fucked up is not in dispute"
This is amusing. Care to post this on the LinuxOne webpage? While _you_ may admit your company has made some horrendous blunders, that's certainly hasn't stopped the marketing people from trying to convince everyone of the exact opposite. How about some good ole "Truth in Advertising"?
"That we had the balls to come to New York should also not be in dispute."
You're right. You were there. And I must admit, your company had to have some pretty giantic kahones to come to the premiere Linux trade show with a repackaged set of standard utilities that you claim is your new and innovative product. You also claim that you don't use these utilities at all, and that, in fact, you don't have a copy of them anywhere.
You seem intelligent enough to realize the horrible mistakes your company is making. Perhaps it's time that you (and your company) began correcting these mistakes, as opposed to committing further blatant blunders. And _if_, not when, your company begins to play by the rules, _then_ you may get the same level of coverage. But only if your efforts to make amends and repair the damage are as equally strong as the blunders you're making now.
Well, not quite. Mandrake has always been a "Better RedHat then RedHat". By that I mean less bugs and more features (like KDE out-of-the-box).
___
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
They don't care man. The only credibility that they need is credibility with gullible people who like to gamble their money away on speculative stocks. And unfortunately, when you're in a good economy and foolish stock traders feel like they're bullet proof, all you need to gain credibility in those people's eyes is a buzzword.
And that buzzword is linux. VA and Redhat are great companies, and they actually have something to offer, but they did cash in on that buzzword. There's nothing shameful in making lots of money if you actually have something to offer like Redhat and VA.
But keep in mind that linuxone only needs to have 1/10th of their success in order to "succeed" in what they're doing.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
"Don't buy from Amazon.com, but do waste their bandwidth by looking for books there."
:)
I used to think that was a good idea, but it turns out that it's not. Amazon doesn't make all of its money off of book sales, it also makes money advertising and so on, so even when you just go to waste their bandwidth and take up resources, they're glad to have you do it, because it's one more hit they add to their hitcount. They then go out to advertisers and say "We had X hits/day which means that advertising costs $Y"
The bigger the $X, the bigger the $Y I would think.
Really though, they do make money without you ever buying anything. If websites couldn't do that, then slashdot would have never been bought by Andover, and Andover would have never been swallowed by VA.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
I could just read between the lines seeing you lead on that hapless employee...going back again and again to the RPM issue, getting her to reiterate what she said (whether it was a lie or just simply a total lack of understanding with everything having to do with linux I'm not sure) and then asking her several times if they were running LinuxOne on their webserver...
.spec files? (Which isn't *really* programming anyway..)
:) (/me braces myself for a "linux" pronunciation holy war :)
I have no idea about the legality of taping conversations on the phone like that, but getting people to reiterate lies like that and eliciting things that can appear damaging to them later seems to me like what was intended when there were laws made about "entrapment"
That said, the phone conversation was funny as hell, and they deserve to be exposed. I feel bad for that sorry employee though, who obviously can't swallow her pride and say "I don't know" on any of the issues...RPM a programming language??? Might she somehow be thinking of
Just tell me one thing man, ease my mind. Please tell me that you were saying "ly-nucks" instead of "lih-nucks" on the phone because you were playing the part of the dumb customer.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
I could just read between the lines seeing you lead on that hapless employee...going back again and again to the RPM issue, getting her to reiterate what she said (whether it was a lie or just simply a total lack of understanding with everything having to do with linux I'm not sure) and then asking her several times if they were running LinuxOne on their webserver...
.spec files? (Which isn't *really* programming anyway..)
:) (/me braces myself for a "linux" pronunciation holy war :)
I have no idea about the legality of taping conversations on the phone like that, but getting people to reiterate lies like that and eliciting things that can appear damaging to them later seems to me like what was intended when there were laws made about "entrapment"
That said, the phone conversation was funny as hell, and they deserve to be exposed. I feel bad for that sorry employee though, who obviously can't swallow her pride and say "I don't know" on any of the issues...RPM a programming language??? Might she somehow be thinking of
Just tell me one thing man, ease my mind. Please tell me that you were saying "ly-nucks" instead of "lih-nucks" on the phone because you were playing the part of the dumb customer.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
I was fortunate enough to go to the expo on friday in new york, and I couldn't believe my eyes that Linux One actually showed up. I thought that they were strictly a screw-the-investor outfit, and that they wouldn't even bother trying to sell a profit seeing as how they are such pariahs in the linux community. I figured that they would just stick to screwing investors out of their money at the IPO.
But they were actually there! There was some guy who looked like he was in his late 50's (Caucasian male) who said that he was the VP of the company. I walked up to their booth, and I was just checking out what they had to offer, (mostly CD's and a few stickers and things, frankly they had one of the most boring booths there) and true to form, somebody walked up and said "This floppy that you gave me has program X on it" (I don't remember what program X was) "Program X is under the GPL, so I was wondering if I can get a source code floppy or CD for this program"
After much hemming and hawing, the VP of LinuxOne (if that's who he was) explained that he wasn't a technical guy, that he was just there to run the booth, and that he would talk to the more technical people. The guy at the booth gave him a hard time a while longer and eventually agreed to write down his email address for the LinuxOne guy to get in touch with him later. (Yeah, like that'll ever happen)
Doesn't it seem strange that Linux One would send somebody who didn't even know enough about linux software to realize that for a lot of packages, it's probably somewhat expected to have access to the source code? It's possible that this guy was playing dumb - but it sure didn't look like he was playing, if you get my drift. I can't believe that they would send somebody non-technical to the show, even if only to snowjob the show-goers.
When seeing people flame LinuxOne on slashdot, I read up on the company, and thought that they were a completely crappy, flighty company that seemed determined to crowbar the dollars out of hapless daytraders, but still, somewhere I had some drop of pity for them since it was possible that they were the victims of some gigantic misunderstanding.
They're not. I hate to say it, but short of whatever the Natalie Portman trolls have been saying, whatever negative thing that you've heard about Linux One is probably true. I certainly can't think of a single attack on them that I've ever heard that doesn't seem to be true.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
HELLO! MY PAGE DID SAY THAT! Here's a few excerpts:
"Yes, I know that not everyone can be totally informed of a product, but that's not an excuse for giving misinformation, as you will read below."
"Conclusion: This sales associate was VERY uninformed. Okay, she may have not been the most technical person in the world, but at several points in our conversation she gave me total misinformation. It would have been perfectly okay to say "I don't know", but instead she insisted RPM was a programming language, and that Apache was a server architecture."
....Or did you even BOTHER to read the whole thing?
You then asked if there were methods of programming in rpm and such. I am sorry as I cannot view your page now but I got the impression that you were toying with the person and allowing them to continue to think that what they said was correct when it wasn't.
Wrong. I was asking the questions that a "person who didn't know anything" would ask. If I was toying with them, I would have phrased the entire conversation a lot more lower in intelligence. I acted like an interested business person, and phrased my questions accordingly. I didn't ask any questions that would be considered out of line, especially considering the information I was given. Sorry, but your argument just doesn't hold up.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Not only have you obviously not read the disclaimer at the top of every comment page - "The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. Slashdot is not responsible for what they say" - but you're 'pulling the race card', which is incredibly bad form.
If you want us to take you seriously, you need to stop 'fucking up' (as you put it so eloquently) and start backpedaling now.
An official statement from LinuxOne explaining your behavior and your corrective intentions would be a good place to start.
they should pick an easier mark, like peddling quack patent medicines to old, sick and confused retiree's - trying to scam the OSS community is like trying to sell fake plastic toy guns to folks at an NRA convention.
At best it sounds like the old 'vaporware' scam, a fraud mastered by you know who, advertise the heck out of a product or service just to get enough orders to finance it's development.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Well I don't believe LinuxOne has been underwritten as of yet, atleast I haven't found anything that would indicate that. Traditionally the underwriters do not bear that kind of liability. In fact, there is language to the effect that the issuer indemnifies the underwriter(s) for liability arising out of omissions or misrepresentations for which the issuer had responsibility.
Now if it can be proven that the underwriting firm had direct knowledge that the firm is a fraud, that might be a different issue. In general though, the onus is not on the investment banks to run around and make sure that everything the issuer says is true.
In regards to their risk, it depends how LinuxOne is taken public. The only route is not through underwriting, rather the risk can be shifted to the issuer through what is known as a "best effort" agreement in which they essentially just act as a broker, not to mention a few others. Even in the case of underwriting though, the underwriters don't necessarily bear signficant risk--even if the issuing company is a bad egg. As long as the bank sells the issue before the market realizes its mistake, they're in the clear. Which is quite likely as long as there is Linux hype in the short term. Especially when the issues are normally significantly discounted and mostly devoid of Day-Traderesque red hot pricing (which the possibly fraudulent owners might be hoping/depending on).
Bottom Line: Don't depend on these investment banks to filter out the slimy issues.
This (while hardly unexpected) raises some serious questions. Is there anyone out there who devotes their time to making sure companies are not taking open source programs or code and passing them off as proprietary? What is the procedure for dealing with these guys? It would be a shame if they got away with this kind of decption.
Finkployd
They've obviously violated the GNU Public License, so why doesn't GNU file a lawsuit? Hell if they need funding for the lawsuit (which I don't believe they do), I'm sure they would find plenty of donors.
This company is a blatent fraud, and they insult the intelligence of the OSS community and the concept of Linux as a whole. This is definately something that needs to be acknowldeged and made an example of legally. When do they get their Cease and Desist order?
More like... What GPL'd program did they redistribute without the GPL? hdformat for one.
Nothing says there has to source code on the floppy. Even if they have made changes to hformat (which I didn't see you claim or prove) they STILL don't have to put the source on the floppy. All they have to do is make it available upon request. I don't think the GPL specifies what format they need to furnish it in. Maybe they'll send it to you on 8-track.
Surprise surprise, VA Linuxdot, err, Slashdot, bashes a different Linux distro.
Bzzzzzt!
VA Linux is not another distro. From their website:
VA Linux Systems Software Package v.6.0
Although we do not create our own distribution, VA optimizes the Linux kernel for each system type and includes the most popular Linux distributions preinstalled.
Seeing so many posts here which say "he shouldn't have played the race card" saddens me. The fact is that racism is still alive and well in the USA and even if you have not had to deal with it, it would be wise to understand that other people have had to.
Don't you know the story of the boy who cried 'wolf!'? The point is, since it is a serious problem, it is all the worse to cry 'racism' when there is no conatation of any sort of racism whatsoever. IIRC lynching is one of the very traditional methods of dealing with scamming business men who come into the local town trying to pull a fast one; I'm not advocating its use now (hopefully we're a bit beyond that) but the metaphor is perfectly appropriate and is no different from any other 'justice' type execution as regards racism.
That's why it's playing the race card, because it's diverting the argument to an ad hominem attack. Or don't you believe calling someone a racist, who hasn't shown that in any way is a personal insult?
Chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
Wait a minute. Why can't people flame Linux-One without bringing lynching into the argument?
:-)
Well, sure; but emotions are running pretty high about this whole Linuxone scam
I thought it was a fair request.
Maybe coming from you. But not from one of the perpetrators of this scam.
I think his statement was a weak and unfocused attempt at a personal insult directed at both the poster and slashdot/linux va. I think he was correct only in that lyching is racist term. It is much more offensive than words like nigger. Perhaps because I know that so many people have died unjustly, I don't find it acceptable even if used in ignorance of the racial connotation.
Well, you have an argument; However, I still can't accept that the connotation is that racial, considering how many other things have been done to blacks (not to mention many other unfortunate groups) and considering how many other people have been lynched. That being said, I can definitely respect your opinion and feelings on the matter, and believe me, I probably wouldn't have used the term either; but that's more due to my aversion to violence to anyone
Chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
To Andover and Slashdot, as an African-American it is troubling to read threats of lynching on this board, but if that's how VA Linux Systems and Slashdot choose to handle its business competitors, so be it.
No one is going to lynch you. If anything, we'll just ignore you by refusing to purchase any LinuxOne goods and servers and make sure that the truth about the organization you represent is clearly and correctly presented to as broad an audience as possible.
And pardon me for asking, but since when did racism get injected into this discussion? Is that how you view this debate, as racist-inspired? We might be angry (I'm very angry), but this comment from you about lynching is just one more clue to the rest of the world as to how clueless you and LinuxOne really are. You're viewed strictly on your technical merits, of which all of you without exception have absolutely none.
Because, dimwit, Mac's are a single, prepackaged system. Apple makes them with MacOS. Period.
Microsoft does *not* make computers.. they just forced computer makers to use their OS. BIG difference.
Hell.. by your logic we should force 3com to sell PalmPilots without an OS......
Now before I get flamed let me just say that I'm as flabbergasted as anyone with regards to this weird LinuxOne stuff. The fact that they've gotten as far as they have is some kind of horrible example of just how weird the business world is in these United States...
:-)
Anyway, back to my point: maybe this LinuxOne thing will wind up being a "good thing" for the Linux community as well as for the respectable vendors when all is said and done. Think about it. LinuxOne is as good a counterpoint to almost every other Linux vendor and distro out there (if not all). Any comparison between them and any other vendor is going to result in nothing but glowing remarks for the "good guy" vendors.
In the press, anytime that LinuxOne is mentioned they are going to be compared to Mandrake, which will have to be explained as a RedHat derivative which will, in turn, be compared to Corel, SuSE, Debian, etc. Notice that all the comparisons are talking about Linux and Linux vendors. Nowhere was a non-Linux comparison made. The case for Linux being non-viable due to lack of anything has been erased because all anyone is talking about is Linux.
So, as evil or greedy as they seem, maybe they will turn out to have done Linux (in general) a favor. Kind of a double edged sword, I know, but hey.
Heck, it's almost as if it's an inept Microsoft plot that's in the process of exploding in their face.
Of course that's just my hallucination. I could be stoned.
*whacks forehead* Norton! *whacks forehead* Norton!
Too much influence from reading the AC idiots posting below.
As for Peter Norton, there are plenty of those also.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
The guy on the symantec products is busy writing books last I checked. (Don't buy from Amazon.com, but do waste their bandwidth by looking for books there.) I can't imagine he'd be involved with this outfit.
North isn't an uncommon name, anyway. A quick romp through the phonebook will turn up at least 19 Peter Norths living in the US.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
As the author of hfsutils, and someone who is actively investigating this matter, I can confirm that LinuxOne's LinuxMac product as currently distributed provides no real functionality except a GUI wrapper and the ability to create Macintosh HFS file systems by bundling hformat.
The fact that the GPL'd hformat is included without a conspicuous copyright notice, without a copy of the GPL, and without including or making an offer to obtain the source has understandably raised my concern. Since I own the copyright, I am in the process of pursuing a legal remedy.
If you've purchased a copy of LinuxMac, or if you have information or concerns about the way it is being distributed, I'd like to hear from you.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
You don't have to modify a GPLed program. If you distribute a GPLed program, you have to either source with the binary, or provide source on request at no more than a reasonable copying fee. This is Section 3, paragraphs a), b) and c).
Problem is, they've publicly stated that LinuxMac is *completely* proprietary, and that hformat or any other third-party software was absolutely not part of it.
It's not that the GUI wrapper isn't useful or isn't signifigant enough -- lord help us if there is a time when anything is too insignifigant to develop -- but it's their blantantly false claims that are the issue here.
-JuPo
In an environment where businesses are working hard to build a unique business model and at the same time earn the respect of the community that they depend on... LinuxOne has done nothing to earn any simular respect. A foolish publicity stunt does not change that. LinuxOne charged across that fine line. Pointing that fact out just makes the act more foolish.
The sad thing is that Linux - its legal workings, its code, and its community - is freely available online. There is no veil of secrecy. The legal requirements and the expectations of Linux's community are available for the reading; mirrored in many cases. It just takes someone with the vested interest in Linux to look and read.That this minor research hasn't been done already is disturbing. Surely the effort it took too find Linux code would have exposed LinuxOne to its community and, even more blatent, its legal language? The cynical amoung us would point out that, given the simplicity of the task, the information found was most likely ignored. You'll forgive me if I find myself affected by these cynics and doubt the need to cover any future "overhaul of [your] practices".
Is it possible for Linus' lawyers to think up a way to throw an "abuse of trademark" curveball at these snake oil peddlers?
Sure they have product, but since these products are rip offs with no added value whatsoever, it can be discounted.
It's time to protect the Linux trademark from the damage that can be done by short-sighted opportunists like this.
MV
> And, when we succed in our re-engineering
....
and overhaul of our practices we'll expect the
> same level of coverage of that too.
When? I'm not from Missouri but
Show Me!!!
Right now you have nothing but copies of others' work. We know it. You know it.
Right now you have the word "Linux" in you name and have filed for IPO based on the above cited nothing. Smells like "get rich quick!! opportunism and to us sounds like a threat to the market integrity of the name "Linux."
Withdraw your IPO filing. Create a real business plan. Create something real and release it properly. THEN come back to us asking for respect.
I repeat, right now you have nothing and have therefore earned nothing except for the scorn of the community you have parasitically attached yourselves to.
-M
Ugh. I just realized the purpose of the flame contest. Now when anyone who's somewhat detached from the community says "hey, I think I read someone saying something pretty bad about you guys" (like an investor), all they have to do is say:
"Oh yeah, that's a little contest we are running on our web site. Go check it out. Those crazy techies love to do this kind of stuff."
If you don't know what I'm talking about check here.
--jb
Was anyone REALLY expecting anything different from these guys?
Maybe it is time for some big publicity and then all these people doing this investigative work can get back to doing something a bit more productive.
Productive meaning work on stuff for me, which includes pretty much anything except repeating that LinuxOne is a hoax gone terribly wrong (right?)
And no, this is not a flame to those that expose these misleading statements and stuff, as that is an important thing. But if we spend our entire days looking at what others are doing, we don't get anything done, that is why I am not going to business school, I want to get some work done.
I'm sorry.. I haven't had a laugh like this in a while..
/. poster, they'd have -120 karma..
LinuxOne now has negative credibility.. If they were a
BTW, LinuxOne! Yeah, you! Perhaps you should hire some actual programmers! Take me for example! I wrote essentially your entire 'LinuxMac' in an afternoon! Hell, just troll a the computer lab at your local community college! At least the newbies there have learned to properly catch white-space padding!
.sig: Now legally binding!
You have to have brains to pull off a successful swindle; That's why LinuxOne is tanking in so early. Look at some of the other big swindles!
Charles Ponzi, graduate of the University of Rome: Gave us the modern 'bubble scheme'. Made millions paying his early investors with the deposits of later ones.
William Gates III, college dropout, holder of several honorary degrees: Sold billions of dollars worth of an Operating System look-alike. Maintained his income through shady contracts and the media.
LinuxOne, questionable education: Simple compound stock swindle based on marketing-hype and optioning of Wall Street buzzwords. Uses the same structure as the failed 'gas-saver' swindles of the fifties and sixties; Offer stock based on UberUseful product coming to market, place stock in escrow with uninterested party, sell stock and run with cash to extradition-free island nation.
Shylocks, hucksters and con-artists of any ilk should be laughing outloud at LinuxOne. Why isn't the financial world??
.sig: Now legally binding!
It's tempting to not respond since your post is so foolish you might be a troll, but... Are you aware the OIC offered several articles of impeachment to the House, and none of them reads "Impeach - because this man is an adulterer!"? They were real violations of the law, like abuse of power and obstruction of justice. If he was an ordinary citizen who had lied to a grand jury (one of his several crimes), even about something tawdry like an affair, it would get him 3-5 years.
When I'm singing a ballad and a pair of underwear lands on my head, I hate that. It really kills the mood.
-Tom Jones
I was leading the SALESPERSON on? If you read the transcript, I believe you will find the opposite is true. If I had not known a damn thing about anything, I would have been led to believe that apache was a server architecture, RPM is a programming language, and EVERY distribution of Linux is insecure. I fed absolutely no information to this person, yet you insist that I "lead the person on with false data". I would have at least said that perhaps they were slightly misinformed. Letting someone carry one like that (at least from where I come from) is bad manners. If someone says something stupid I don't just let them hang themselves. I was leading the SALESPERSON on? If you read the transcript, I believe you will find the opposite is true. If I had not known a damn thing about anything, I would have been led to believe that apache was a server architecture, RPM is a programming language, and EVERY distribution of Linux is insecure. I fed absolutely no information to this person, yet you insist that I "lead the person on with false data". You then asked if there were methods of programming in rpm and such. I am sorry as I cannot view your page now but I got the impression that you were toying with the person and allowing them to continue to think that what they said was correct when it wasn't. It would be like talking to a small child and snickering behind their back.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
http://www.linuxone.net/flames.html. Your company asks for flames? If people constantly flame you, then perhaps you need better PR, not a form for them to try and win a T-shirt.
Addressing point number 2, you must realize that the comments posted here by other people are not representations of Andover, Slashdot, and Va.
To imply that they are, and then try to invoke some racial tension with the statement is poor form. But, we've learned not to expect anything better from LinuxOne.
People have been doing a great job of checking out every claim LinuxOne makes so far and documenting their every lie, exaggeration, omission, and plagiarism. It would be great if someone were to collect pointers to this stuff onto one page: sort of "Steaming Heap of Truth about LinuxOne." It would be a good resource to point news-types to (or anyone who might be inclined to take this troop of cheats at face value), especially since the source material is from many sources (Business Week, Motley Fool, and LinuxToday as well as /.).
Jenny
As a cattle rustler, I find threats of lynching very troubling, but I do not blame VA Linux.
2. To Andover and Slashdot, as an African-American it is troubling to read threats of lynching on this board, but if that's how VA Linux Systems and Slashdot choose to handle its business competitors, so be it.
As an African in America it is troubling to see yet another black man hide behind so-called racism once they are caught in a bad situation.
As a programmer who one day hopes to contribute code that it will be GPLed it is troubling that a fellow black man may hide behind racism to justify the reasons his company refused to abide by my license.
By the way slashdot and VA Linux do not in any way control the content on this "board", so your comments on lynching should be directed at the posters of those comments and not Slashdot or VA Linux (I hope you don't think by playing the race card you will get them to censor those posts?)
That we've fucked up is not in dispute.
Glad you realize...we all mess up every once in a while but your company is taking this to the next level.
That we had the balls to come to New York should also not be in dispute.
It takes balls for a legitimate company to come to computer expo?
And, when we succed in our re-engineering and overhaul of our practices we'll expect the same level of coverage of that too. Beleive me when I say I'll be on your website every other day checking up on it and once there's any mention of a "successful engineering" slashdot will be flooded with submissions.
PS: I had a whole bunch of semi-technical questions regarding why you're sales staff don't know what RPM is (or that the R in it stands for Red Hat), or that VA Linux doesn't sell a linux distro or that your website runs Red Hat but I decided against it before I get accused of lynching you as well
From the LinuxOne Products page: As a MAC OS/LinuxPPC user I find this langauge highly offensive. From your informative posts I knew these guys were not terribly bright, but I did not expect them to be abusive...
Still, you have to expect a little guano arround any large penguin colony...
I assume you are referring to the "I got the hammer and nails" post. Since he/she probably didn't know that you were African-American until now, it's a safe bet that has nothing to do with anything. His comments are most likely inspired by a belief that your company is either staffed by incompetent developers or is a complete fraud.
It may be true that VA Linux happens to own the network which hosts Slashdot, but I find it hard to believe that the Slashdot readers who post negative articles and comments about your company are all pawns of VA Linux under orders to spread bad press about LinuxOne. Frankly, since VA Linux actually has a product (unlike LinuxOne which appears to be distributing RedHat with a different label on the box), they probably don't even care.
That we've fucked up is not in dispute.
If by "fucked up", you mean "deliberately attempted to mislead," or "distributed someone else's product with our name on it," then you are correct.
You want to know why no one likes LinuxOne? Because your practices stink of Microsoft. The company that distributed a version of Intergalactic Research's Q-DOS and charged $60 for it, and then went on to rip off the Macintosh GUI and charge $180 for it. Your practices (and Microsoft's) may not be illegal, but they're pretty lame.
And, when we succed in our re-engineering and overhaul of our practices we'll expect the same level of coverage of that too.
The best software companies are the ones with products that inspire nerds to say things like, "Whoa! That's really cool!" Assuming you're not trying to pull some kind of IPO scam, and your programmers aren't 3rd string losers, and you really want to clear your name, then hack some badass code that makes us all ooh and ah.
---Bless those silly trolls---
...is Derek Simkowiak's page documenting his dialogue with them. URL: http://www.kd-dev.com/~dereks/linuxone/ . If anyone has been compiling similar information, post it up here too.
// zyqqh
Please contact me:
Richard Bottoms
Dir. Business Development
LinuxOne
rbottoms@linuxone.net
or call
650.948.6201
2. To Andover and Slashdot, as an African-American it is troubling to read threats of lynching on this board, but if that's how VA Linux Systems and Slashdot choose to handle its business competitors, so be it.
That we've fucked up is not in dispute. That we had the balls to come to New York should also not be in dispute. And, when we succed in our re-engineering and overhaul of our practices we'll expect the same level of coverage of that too.
r.b.