Slashdot Mirror
The Ultimate Geek Food
Triune writes, "Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert, has started Scott Adams Foods in order to sell their new burrito-type snack that contains 100% of most, if not all, the daily requirements. The
Dilberito!" The ultimate geek food? You'd elect this over ramen noodles? Note to Andover execs - exploit marketing possibilities of the CmdrTaco.
There are some things I wish could be undone.
This is definatly one of them.
I'll stick with my Cup O' Noodles, Eggos, Pop Tarts, and Diet Pepsi.
Oh, and some cold pizza to soak it up.
threadeds blog
Where's the beef? And whats with the non-dairy cheese? This can't possibly qualify as geek food - its not even close to unhealthy enough. We don't drink coffee and Dew and Jolt becuase we're taking care of our bodies!
Delivery Taco Bell - that is the ultimate in geek eating.
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." - Alexander Hamilton
I think that maybe he should have paid a little bit more attention to what coders actually eat, if that's his target audience. I think it's good that it can be held in one hand, but I find it disturbing that there isn't a 'pizza' flavor. I mean, come on now.
Seriously, I'll probably pick up a 'Barbeque' or 'Mexican' to see if they're any good, but I really doubt I'll be picking up any 'Indian' or 'Garlic and Herb'. Now, if 'Pizza' was an option, then I'd probably buy a case of them without ever having tried them.
As far as the utility of the 'Dilberito', what's going to seperate this from other one-handed foods? e.g. Hot Pockets and others of its type. Better be tasty.
Wait just a minute... what's this about daily requirements?? Here's the excerpt from the Indian Dilberito page:
Total Fat 5g 8% 8%
Saturated Fat 0g 0% 0%
Cholesterol 0mg 0% 0%
Sodium 630mg 26% 28%
Potassium 230mg 9% 10%
Total Carb 53g 18% 21%
Dietary Fiber 3g 12% 12%
Sugars 4g
Protein 8g
While the page *does* say that it provides 100% of many vitamins and minerals, the above is clearly not 100%.
Also, note that Total cereal DOES THE EXACT SAME THING in their marketing. You've seen the ads where they scroll down the Nutrition Facts and everything says 100% - that doesn't count the PROTEIN you need, it's only the vitamins and minerals.
If something with "100% of your Daily Requirements" were the ultimate geek food, Total would be much more popular than ramen.
You should never take life too seriously - You'll never get out of it alive.
I remember reading about this a long time ago. Basically, Scott Adams was grossed out by something and became a vegitarian. He couldn't find any good vegitarian foods out there, so he decided to make his own. No preservatives. I prefer Pizza Rolls myself.
Slashdot poll: Which snack food do you like best?
This sounds like the perfect food for the Hacker's Diet. It looks like alot of volume for the calorie count, and has quite a bit of nutritional value as well.
I do have to agree that this looks more like Yuppie Chow (tm) than geek food. I just don't see engineers eating alot of legumes and non-dairy cheese. It is, however, a microwavable food... and there is a certain charm to foods you've just prepared by exposing them to radiation.
Now if Mr. Adams can hook up with Pepsico to make a healthy Dorito with 100% of my daily nutritional needs, to go along with my DMD (Diet Mountain Dew, a gift from above to dieting hackers)... Then he's really got something.
I'll try it, and if its good I'll continue buying it. But I don't really know if its wise for 'ol Scot to use the Dilbert name everywhere. Expecially on something whose concept it doesn't mesh fit with, like yuppie health food. We don't want Dilbert to become so ever present that we get tired of it.
s/[BW]ill(y|iam)?( H\.?)?( G(ate|8)(s|z))?(,? ?v?(III|3)(\.\D)?)?/Girly-man/gi
They spray it with vitamins and stuff. Now I'm going to be sick.
d /index.html
http://cnn.com/FOOD/news/9910/20/functional.foo
jpowers
-jpowers
More important than taste, at least to me, is how many little pieces of food will fall into my keyboard. If it could be eaten in one bite, that might work, but for multi-bite meals, it has to be clean. Ramen is *really* bad for this.
Narrative
So, say what you will about Adams, it seems that, by investing his own money to develop the Dilberito, he's trying to help people eat healthier without having to become "nutrition geeks." The "Dilbert" name and packaging is just a way to market it to people (like sugar-coating on pills, perhaps).
It's a noble goal, whether or not its actual execution is flawed. (And I've never tasted or even seen a Dilberito, so I can't yet judge for myself, but next time I'm in the local King Soopers, I'll have a look for 'em.) So, before you condemn Adams out of hand, ask yourself how healthy you eat on a regular basis (and I know I for one am flawed in that respect). If Adams can leverage the Dilbert brand to get a few more people to eat healthy for once, isn't it worth it?
Eric
--
"Free your code...and the rest will follow."
Be who you are...and be it in style!
So there IS a demand for Dilberts.
Still, one would hope that the accessory would NOT be Dildog...
Ceterum censeo Microsoftam esse delendam.
if you're really looking at this from the hacker perspective, you view eating from a utilitarian and pleasure-oriented point of view. first, you need to eat, and second, you can have very happy sensations when you eat certain foods. the utilitarian bit is what makes you want to eat one thing that contains all your vitamins and minerals and whatnot so that you can stay alive as efficiently as possible. the pleasure-oriented part is what make you eat doritoes and coke and unhealthy stuff that tastes yummy.
what I propose is the following - get as many vitamins and minerals as possible through the use of dietary supplements. quite simple - you can eat a handful of pills and never work about scurvy or any other wierd deficiency no matter what other shit you eat.
then you eat a lot of something that fills you up but isnt loaded with fat. I prefer Fla*Vor*Ice, sometimes I switch to bleached white Wonder bread (mmmmmmmm); you might like cheez-its or doritoes or any number of things. IMPORTANT - do not pick something like "pork rinds" or "lard" for this unless you want to turn into a disgusting blob. eat this food all day, every day.
then, every time you feel like eating something else specifically, go get some. i.e., if suddently you want a pastrami sandwich, or some steak, or some carrots, or some tofu, get it. your general sense of fullness will prevent you from pigging out on these sporadic demand-items, but you won't die of protein deficiency or anything of the sort, because when your body needs something, it will tell you.
Nothing bad, usually. In fact, when some vitamins are taken in larger amounts, they actually have preventative effects on the body. Toxic vitamin levels are a possibility, but rare. (300% isn't much of a problem, but when you hit 1000%+, then you may run into problems. Especially with fat-soluable vitamins like A, K, and E.
I'm not a doctor, so don't take the above as a replacement for doctor's advice.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
the funny thing is.. why does scott adams avoid mentioning this? it's nowhere on the website or in any of the press releases. it's like he's trying to sneak veganity past the unwashed masses. I suppose that's what the "nobody knows how to eat healthily" and "make the world a better place" doublespeak is about.
the other funny thing: my vegan friends tell me that caseinate (one of the main ingredients in the "non-dairy cheese") is milk-derived and not vegan-safe. maybe this is some kind of synthetic casein? maybe he's too vegan for real cheese, but not too vegan for artifical cheese with milk protein?
as far as people pointing out that it's not really a "complete day's nutrition," it's worth noting that the only things they don't have 100%usra of are the things you normally get much too much of. it is *just hard* to live in america and consume less than 100% of your recommended fat, protein, sodium etc intakes -- this is called dieting, and it's not something coders are known for. you wouldn't eat just a burrito in a whole day -- you'd grab some chips and jolt or something. one of these dilberitos plus a serving or two of unhealthy junk food will give you a great approximation of the rda's.
Remember, Adams has an MBA and has always worked in the business world, and HAS NO ENGINEERING EXPERIENCE. He's not a geek. I don't think he's ever claimed to be. He's looking to make money, and until his cost-benefit analyses tell him that he's overusing the Dilbert trademark and decreasing its appeal, he's continue to paste it on anything he can sell.
Ceterum censeo Microsoftam esse delendam.
But in response to your question, I think a lot of this junk food ethic comes from college. I live in a dorm and we're not allowed to have hotplates or anything in our rooms (although I do have an "illegal" hotplate, but that doesn't really help prepare a huge meal). There is a kitchen in the building, but I live on the third floor and the kitchen is in the basement, so that's a no-go right there.
When I was on break, I cooked lots and lots. Hot dogs, pasta dishes, fancy meals, steaks, everything. I would love to be able to cook meals all the time but it's just not possible.
I realize many "geeks" (note, I don't really consider myself a true "geek") are no longer in college, but the move from college to work is often a matter of location. They find themselves doing the same thing at work as they did in college and so they fall into the habits they had in college. Pulling an all-nighter to get the server running? Well, eat the Dilberto.
Also, I usually get hungry around 2 am. There aren't many places that deliver at 2 am and preparing a huge dish that late is a pain. So there the Dilberto (or other quick/junk food) comes in handy.
These are just theories, of course.
_________________
rooooar
Besides the fact they look disgusting, they are marketed by Scott Adams. I have no respect for that man after the Dilhole lawyer letter. He and his dilbert strip can jump off a cliff.
But all of this is beside the fact. They certainly do not give you 100% of your daily needs:
no caffeine
no alcohol
and no where near enough sugars/fat
That excludes it from being the perfect geek food.
This sig is false.
For those all-night hacks, pizza and microwaved burritos are big. Interestingly, though the mainstream culture has tended to think of hackers as incorrigible junk-food junkies, many have at least mildly health-foodist attitudes and are fairly discriminating about what they eat. This may be generational; anecdotal evidence suggests that the stereotype was more on the mark before the early 1980s. (Italics mine.)
Geeks' affinity for junk food is a stereotype that has its roots in reality but doesn't stretch its branches far enough to cover us all.
Ceterum censeo Microsoftam esse delendam.
Okay, not all of us Geeks eat like crap. I am one that tries to eat "right". Ya, I have my overdose of Caffine everyday, but other than that, I eat pretty well.
.5 grams. The Fiber content is pretty good at about 25% DV on average. The Calories count is also well at 310 average per serving. Wash it down with some Caffine product and you would be set for the day.
The Dilberito actually looks like it is "healthy". The Fat content is good amount, and its Saturated Fat is 0 or
My only complant is that if you ate 4 of these things with the Nutrent content it has some people might get sick or overdose on Vitamin A and Iron. Although for most Slashdot readers this would not be a problem.
Linux O Muerte!
Sounds like just the thing for me. I'm a 'not so strict' vegetarian, but my choices are still pretty limited. It's nice to have this option. I'll give them all a try anyway.
:)
:)
And Newton, NJ? Well, that's a helluva nod to Apple, huh? Especially for a discontinued product.
I think I see a pattern here... Newton, Apples, Macintosh, Healthy Burritos from Scott Adams, hmmm...
I think I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader...
In any case, they've gotta be better than 'Penguin Patties' (TM)
Russ
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
Maybe its just me but I never understood why ramen is so popular. If price is a factor then sphagetti or pasta is available for slightly more. It takes about the same time and tastes a lot better. Hell, baked potatoes cook in the same time as ramen and taste much better.
If cost isn't a consideration, something like lamb stew, chili, quiche, etc. take about 10-15 minutes to prepare (they take about 30-60 min to cook, but you can do something else while they're cooking).
I'm not sure where this thing with geeks eating only pizza and ramen comes from. I'm a math/cs major and most of the other physics/math/cs I know don't eat that stuff on a regular basis. At our parties, you're more likely to see stuff like salmon steaks, grilled portabella mushrooms, fresh baked cookies than pizza or ramen.
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it
I've often sat down and thought, "You know, I really wish niekze ran /., then all the stories would be interesting to him and all would be well again"
Oh well, It cannot be a perfect world, cause you know some loser would whine that stories you post might be uninteresting to him. Goobers like that just ruin it for the rest of us.
Finkployd
fish in a barrel indeed!
======
"Rex unto my cleeb, and thou shalt have everlasting blort." - Zorp 3:16
Sacred cows make the best burgers.
Note to Andover execs - exploit marketing possibilities of the CmdrTaco.
Ummm Rob, Isn't CmdrTaco technically Dave Berry's intellectual property? Unless he publishes his articles under the GPL, you will have to license this from him.
:)
Finkployd
A lot of my friends and I eat Indian food fairly frequently, and I know one person in particular who carries around a garlic spray (that's right, spray) so he can spray his pizza at meetings where free pizza is to be had. I'm pretty sure he sprays it on other food, too.
Point being that different people have different tastes, and just judging just by the eating habits around my school, Indian would sell fairly well, assuming people want to buy Dilberitos. I'd be willing to wager that there will be new flavors coming out if this initial venture is successful, but it's probably a good idea to invest in a small but varied subset of tastes, test market reaction, and then unroll big-ass product lines. Of course, I'm not an econ major, so I couldn't tell you with certainty.
- Y
"There is no culture in computer science, only cults." - M. Felleisen
First: Strict vegetarian, haven't eaten meat in 12 years.
Mexican dilberito: Moderately tasty. Not as good as Amy's Organics burritos.
Garlic and Herb dilberito: Extremely dissapointing. I LOVE garlic, occasionaly even eat a clove raw. This was barely edible, and the garlic and herb sauce was nasty bad.
barbeque: It was ok, but I'm not a huge fan of barbeque.
I haven't tried the Indian yet.
I don't remember exactly how much I paid, but they were not cheap.
I see your point and I agree to an extent. However, I take the attitude that has allowed me to enjoy slashdot for years, that I only click on the stories that interest me.
There are 132 comments posted to this story, so obviously some people think this is interesting. Why should your opinion prevail over theirs?
Finkployd
I wouldn't call this "geek food." It's more like workaholic yuppie food. Think about it: it's very intentionally healthy, it's trendy (the whole "wraps" thing) and it's fast.
Actually, it's probably something overworked supermoms are going to cram in their kids' faces before they rush them off to soccer practice. I think most people associate food with cartoon characters on it with kiddie stuff. I think that'll happen here too, even if the kids don't find Dilbert all that funny.
I live in Canada though, so it'll probably be a while before those things pop up on the local grocery shelves here. What if it is a success then? What else will we see? Dilbergers? Wally-Os? Alice's Fist-Of-Death hot sauce? I know I've seen Dilbert mints already...
niekze's Slashdot - "We talk about love, friendship, family, happiness, and all things money can't buy!!!"
I remember reading a piece on Scott Adams about a month or two before the animated Dilbert series started airing. IIRC, they had a shot of the packaging mock-up and had a bit from Adams on it. Anyone else remember this? Mmmmmm.... PHB. Pointy-Haired-Burrito.
----
----
Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
Set up a banner ad on /. and allow your uber-geeks to order them right off the internet with home delivery (Preferably in the dead of night.) One less reason to go into the big blue room! Oh yeah!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
HUH? Great, now we have /.ers who decided that they should control what news I read. Moderation is good for sorting more than 50 comments, but why the hell do we need moderation for the 10 articles per day?
If price is a factor then sphagetti or pasta is available for slightly more. It takes about the same time and tastes a lot better.
Ramen's price is definitely it's biggest benefit. I usually buy mine in packages of twenty for about two dollars. Spaghetti was never this cheap. Also, making spaghetti in a microwave is impossible -- simply too much boiling water is needed. Two cups of water in a Pyrex measuring cup for about two minutes usually does the trick for superheated pseudo-boiling water in my microwave (your mileage may vary.) And I personally think chicken ramen soup tastes pretty good, kinda like Campbell's with a twist.
As for pizza, my freezer's usually stocked with Papa John's leftovers or Bagel Bites. (Unfortunately, the latter are pretty expensive by ramen standards, costing about $2.50 per package, which for all intents and purposes constitutes one serving.)
Sure, steaks and cookies are great for dinner parties, but while studying the night before a midterm or for a quick midnight snack, cold pizza or a bowl of ramen generally holds me over until I can get my hands on real food.
There should be a Surgeon General's warning on those packages, though -- as a result of the "flash-frying" process used to preserve the noodles, a package of ramen usually makes up about 40% of your RDA of saturated fat. Mmmm...
enmity.
'For want of a [microwaveable steak], the whole kingdom was lost.'
Uh yeah like STEAK.
Acutally this was mostly a joke, don't take it as a personal attack, i can respect your beliefs as long as you respect my love for a breakfast of sausage, bacon, eggs, and milk.
I had never had DMD before, and I saw a bottle lying on the counter. Not only was it DMD, but it was hot and flat...it was the first drink I've ever spit out, and I spit it out as fast as possible...didn't even turn my head 30 degrees to the sink, I spit it out all over the counter and floor, with some going back in the bottle, and some over the toaster oven....
I drink stale, hot normal Mountain Dew all the time, but if I only had hot, stale DMD in the desert, I would cool myself by pouring it over my body, begin sure to keep my mouth shut.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
The whole point of having little icons for each topic is that you can avoid complete topics you don't like in your preferences. If I need dogma to dictate my slashdot news, I would be reading GPL/Linux anti-Microsoft news all day long.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Following the zone diet involves geeky calulations and measuring of things. Your kitchen becomes a lab. Barry Sears encourages people to think of food as a psychoactive drug. How much more geeky can you get?
The Dilberito is too high in carbs, too low in protien and the protien is does have is locked in a fiber matrix, making it hard to absorb. It's weird because in the same "Dilbert Future" paragraph that Adams talks about the then-hypothetical food, he also mentions the Zone. I was disappointed to see that the Dilberito is not "Zone Friendly" particularly because it's so difficult for vegitarians to get the protien requirements needed to adhere to the Zone diet.
Subject says it all. (Nearly)
What the hell is the point making something so *almost* healthy, and then ruining it with salt? I appreciate the attempt at vegetarianism, but this isn't quite what I was hoping for.
Some people have strong senses of ethics. Strong enough, in fact, that they're willing to think about what they're doing, even when they're doing something popular. Those people are called vegans. And yes, it bothers us that animals suffer, and we do what we can to make that not happen any more.
Why doesn't suffering bother you? Why don't you do anything about it?
-jacob
Yeah, but most junk food is fat and carbo rich. High protein is a good idea, because when you balance it with your latte and blueberry muffin breakfast, your almost eating healthy.
I'm going to find a 7-11 that carries these ASAP.
--Kevin
Try Cliff bars..
Harder to find, but better for you and taste much darn better.
Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
I really don't give a fuck what the average /. reader thinks about an article. And since I can READ, I don't have to randomly click on articles; I can just click on the ones that interest me. Theres no reason for articles to be moderated, since you can scan all the articles extremely quickly (assuming you can read; perhaps you can't) and decide which you want to look at.
Are you really this stupid?
Think about it. If he were to have refrained from using the name "Dilberitos" and just called them "Scott Adams' Healthy Burritos" (or something along those lines), it seems likely that his primary response would be from people who already consume health food. People who aren't inclined to eat health food probably wouldn't try them. His product would become, basically, a "me-too" product, and would probably wind up losing out in the end to other, more popular or established brands. (Competition in the food business is murder, margins are generally low, and brand recognition is extremely important.)
On the other hand, most people in the United States have undoubtedly heard of Dilbert, via the comic strip, books, TV show, Web site, T-shirts, coffee mugs, you name it. The "Dilbert" brand, in the case of Dilberitos, is being used as a "hook" (to put it in entertainment industry terms). Seeing the name "Dilbert" on a food product might make some people more inclined to buy it, regardless of the fact that it's a healthy food...and if enough people buy and consume Dilberitos who might not have bought and consumed healthy foods otherwise, then Adams has achieved his goal, and his marketing strategy is vindicated thereby.
And, if people keep buying Dilberitos, Scott Adams makes money. As others in this thread have pointed out, this is not a bad thing. (At the risk of diverging from the topic at hand, I might note that, proverbially, it is "the love of money," not "money" itself, that is considered "the root of all evil." Money itself is a morally neutral tool, which may be used for either good or evil purposes.) And, if people don't buy Dilberitos, he doesn't make money, and he runs the risk of damaging the "Dilbert brand" and causing a backlash among Dilbert's hardcore fans. The point is, Adams believes strongly enough in this idea that he is willing to back it with, not only his own money, but the strength of the "Dilbert" brand, and I for one applaud the courage of his convictions.
Eric
--
"Free your code...and the rest will follow."
Be who you are...and be it in style!
Eric
--
"Free your code...and the rest will follow."
Be who you are...and be it in style!
This is something I never understood about vegans. I can understand saying "I don't eat meat because it's disgusting/it's cruel to animals". I don't understand the "please, can you go check if this may have been cooked in pan that had ever been used to cook meat?" paranoia. Could someone explain to me why vegans have a religious aversion to animals products? That is, why do they feel compelled to check so thoroughly that something doesn't have meat in it?
Also, what's with the refined sugar thing? Is it true that vegans don't eat it because they think it involves animal products?
Any vegans out there who can enlighten?
--Kevin
But this doesn't mean we can simply eliminate one important ingredient from our diet indefinitely without any ill effects. We *need* animal products, for calcium, proteins, and some enzymes. Sure, we can get those from vegetal products too, but our bodies aren't optimized for a vegetarian diet. In the long run, we will have health problems if we don't consume any animal products.
Animal products do have unhealthy components in them, so we should not abuse them. Balance is the key. If you are serious about not consuming *anything* at all that has deleterious side effects, you should learn to live without oxygen. It's the presence of oxygen in the body that creates the free radicals that are among the more important causes of aging.
I have a friend who had a strictly vegan diet, "scientifically" balanced, for twenty years. One day, her shoe got stuck in a crack in the pavement and she broke her leg. She was two months in bed, and has needed crutches for walking since then, over six months ago. A healthy carnivore person would get a slightly sore ankle from the same stumble. It's all a matter of not having the right enzymes to digest calcium. If you consume large amounts of calcium from vegetable sources, all you will get from that are gallstones. There are some enzymes the human body needs to digest calcium that can't be found in any vegetable food.
Moderators, take note:
1)Read the moderation guidelines before moderating anything
Actually, the cereal you're thinking of was called "King Vitaman." I vaguely remember that being available when I was a kid, but I never had the pleasure(?) of trying it.
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
What you have said is incorrect (so much bullshit if this were RANT mode
Visit my page of vegetarian resources and read Realities if you wish to learn something
that has not been influenced by the Beef, Egg, and Dairy Council as it seems your current information has been.
To address your claims regarding calcium, a diet consisting of animal protien will cause calcium to be extracted from a person's bones to assist in digestion of the highly concentrated protein. Green cruciferous vegetables contain far more calcium than can ever be obtained from cow milk. Do some research for Chrissakes before you come off sounding like an idiot!
Thank you for your time.
This post encoded with ROT26. If you can read it, you've violated the DMCA. Handcuffs please, sergeant.
Try keeping a bag of unsalted prezels and a jar of peanut butter at your desk while you work, and learn to munch without thinking about it. Get in the habit of eating three hearty squares per day (or three light meals plus three substantial snacks, if you don't like stuffing yourself), whether you feel like it or not.
If you take a little exercise, too, you'll put on pure muscle, not fat. Two or three times a week, deadlift (that's just grabbing a barbell that's on the floor - keep your back straight and lift with your hips! - and standing up while holding it) with as much weight as you can manage for twenty repetitions (start with the bare bar and add five pounds each time until you can't finish the 20), do as many pushups as you can, then do as many sit-ups as you can. It'll take about 10 minutes each time, and you won't believe the difference it makes in the way you feel (after six months or so, you'll want to balance the program out with some chin-ups and overhead barbell presses and such to keep your body balanced, but keep it simple when you're starting out).
If you don't have easy access to weights, you can do just fine with floor exercises, though you have to learn a bit of technique. The exercises described here are really top notch, though you can get by with the simple exercises you learned in grade school. I would, however, recommend getting a length of bungee cord and doing "pull the bow" and "draw the sword" exercises with it, to balance out the muscles in your shoulders and upper back (watch that you don't snap yourself in the face with it though; goggles are a good idea).
Actually IIRC a stricly vegan meal does lack a handful of things that your body needs.. Also, IIRC that would be solved by getting those trace-amounts of stuff into your diet by either eating a small amount of animal product once a month or by taking the stuff in chemically synthesized form, i.e. pills..
Dunno what the things that lacked were.. I remember them being entirely unspectacular.. Some amino-acids or other..
Can any-one back this up?
--
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
One package ramen noodles
One Steak-um philly steak
One egg, beaten
Green onions, finely chopped
Soy sauce
Bring 2 cups water to a boil. Add ramen noodles, stir occasionally for two and a half minutes. While noodles are cooking, cut philly steak into strips and fry in its own juices; drain fat. Pour egg into noodles and stir for 30 seconds, reduce heat, add steak and onions. Add soy sauce to taste (I usually use 2-3 tablespoons), remove from heat, and serve. Serves 1.
I've been thinking of starting up an open recipe archive which caters to the geek population (none of that "better homes and gardens"-type crap as you find on recipes.com and the like). Anyone interested?
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
Gods, and I thought that I was cynical.
If he was just out to make money, probably the last ingredient he would use would be a vegan cheese-substitute. It would probably be a damn sight easier (& cheaper) to use normal cheese - lots of cheese is made with vegetarian rennet, so using veggie cheese wouldn't have been a problem. But these things are deliberately vegan - not something that's normally a money-making strategy. If he was just trying to rake in the cash, they'd probably simply be junk food, without the vitamins & other (supposedly) healthy stuff.
If they sell 'em in the UK, I'll try 'em. They sound & look pretty good.
HH
--
Yellow tigers crouched in jungles in her dark eyes.
She's just dressing, goodbye windows, tired starlings.
What's-his-name... Mark Mathew Braunstein, the guy who wrote Radical Vegetarianism, briefly made the point you make- some people just can't eat a completely vegetarian diet, and for them it makes sense to continue to eat meat. Of course, Braunstein is a loon (for other reasons), but it's a good point anyway.
On the other hand, most people can do just fine on a careful vegan diet. Dwelling on the fact that some people CAN'T do it for health reasons just makes it that much easier for some idiot to say, "Well, I just can't do it either. I've GOT to have my cheeseburger!" Also, some people think that vegetables are deficient when in fact it's just the way they're eating. Iron and calcium are good examples- there are wonderfully good vegetable sources of both, but a lot of vegetarians/vegans find themselves deficient because they don't eat well-balanced foods. (Amazingly, going to McDonald's and ordering just the french fries and coke is not the path to perfect health.)
So perhaps I was simplifying things a bit much. But I do actually think that "it hurts animals, so don't do it" is a pretty compelling argument, if fleshed out a bit more (but it doesn't need much more fleshing out- it's not a complicated idea.) On the other hand, what do you expect in a reply to a message titled "vegans can go to hell or California"?
-jacob
1 equally sized burrito + 1 centrum pill?
(other than the extra marketing flavor)
Besides, I am a bit suspicious (read: I prefer to avoid them if at all possible) of the following ingredients:
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
I like burritos, but only _cheap_ burritos >:) I used to be able to get this brand of freezer burritos in big long sacks- man, I miss those. Currently I'm occasionally buying another brand of cheap freezer burrito, but though the Cheap Burrito Flavor (tm) is still right, the new kind (Tina's Beef And Bean Green Chili) tends to have bits of bone in it, which is extremely nasty. I don't want it _that_ cheap thank you ;P :) The other kind (Los Campanas?) had cheaper packaging, but never contained unwanted bits :)
It is a precursor of serotonin, a neurotransmitter whose unbalance may cause you to fall into uncontrollable rants from time to time...
I said: If you consume large amounts of calcium from vegetable sources, all you will get from that are gallstones.
You said: Green cruciferous vegetables contain far more calcium than can ever be obtained from cow milk.
At least, in this point you don't seem to disagree with me. We both said that one *CAN* get large amounts of calcium from vegetable sources.
Moderators, take note:
1)Read the moderation guidelines before moderating anything
I remember the book, and what he was talking about wasn't a snack with synthetic vitamins mixed in, but a one-stop solution for healthy eating, for the lazy geek who doesn't care too much about variety in his food.
There isn't enough protein, and too many of the calories are from carbohydrates. You can't just eat three of these things per day and have an ideal diet, which was the idea (would it even be safe, with 100% of the recommended intake of so many nutrients?). You have to eat other foods in appropriate quantities.
This doesn't really simplify anything, unless you think multivitamin pills are too complicated.
_________________
rooooar
Whether it's classic kraft orange, or something nifty like Annie's Alfredo (a personal favorite), I use the prescribed amount of butter and substitute sour cream for milk. It's richer and more hearty, and also sour cream has less lactose than skim milk (sounds nuts, but think about it, lactose is a sugar). So mac and cheese made with sour cream is less likely to act like a pipe bomb in your digestion if you are lactose intolerant! :)
And, of course, being open source, people can submit patches to it, like the one I immediately got sent after posting this recipe, suggesting adding mirin and bonito flakes to the broth. :)
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
Granted it's not easy to live on a vegan diet, but it is possible. It takes time to prepare meals and make sure that you get all of the stuff you need. If someone is willing to make these sacrifices, there's no reason they can't live a healthy life.
I have been vegan for two years and I still perform all of the physical activity that I used to. I haven't slowed down, at least from I can tell (measured by comparing my performance with my meat-eating friends). I really do think it's possible that you can be a vegan and maintain proper fitness, stamina, and strength. As some proof to that, the only 5-time winner of the Ironman Triathalon (or at least he was the only 5-time winner when I first heard about this 2 years ago), Dave Scott, is vegan. I think it takes some stamina and strength to swim 2 miles, run 26+ miles, and bike however-the-hell-far-they-bike miles. I realize that this is only one example, but it's a pretty high-profile one. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who could serve as examples, but aren't as well known.
I'd write more, but I have to go have supper. I think tonight I'll have some vegan burgers and some peas.
Frogs are primitive animals - so the occasional extra toe is not that unusual. But this is very unusual.
For instance, I treat the humble taco like this- I'll fuss around for an hour dicing tomatoes and shredding cheese and ripping lettuce into neat little pieces and cooking a beef filling based on the way they used to make the Old El Paso mix (which was _ruined_ in recent years- gah!) from scratch or semi-scratch. Or I'll make a stirfry curry chicken dish that involves breading chicken slices and some peanuts with straight curry powder and making rice and presoaking raisins to mix with the rice, all to be mixed with mango chutney. There aren't a huge number of recipes, but the common factor is: they taste good, and take maybe an hour or more to prepare. Which is _normal_ for really posh food when you have to dice fresh tomatoes or cut fresh gourmet Bell and Evans organic chicken breast into stirfry slices and bread them each individually in a big bowl of curry powder.
Therefore, this explains why I will also be found eating Ramen (after my Dad took me out to a noodle restaraunt- before that, I wouldn't touch Ramen, but that's when I discovered oriental noodles had an interesting style all their own), or freezer burritos (my attempts at making my own gourmet freezer burritos have not really measured up to _cheap_ freezer burritos- some things are meant to be cheap, not posh), or mac and cheese (which I will put sour cream and nice butter into, tho) or even eating raw spaghettios out of the can (the _serious_ don't-distract-me-with-meatspace dinner).
I like the idea that I epitomize _both_ extremes ;)
You know you weigh less than my WARM UP weights I toss around at the gym!?!?!?!
Please, eat!
Linux O Muerte!
* Regarding these snacks:
two of them seem to be vegan, two of them are not (since like somebody noticed above, they contain caseinate which is a milk byproduct).
* Regarding sugar:
Besides the fact that a significant percentage of sugar processing plant use bone char to whiten the sugar (an inherently non-vegan process) even non vegans should really really read this book:
Sugar Blues
this will explain a lot why many people are finally saying 'no' to more or less poorly disguised sugar (molasses, cane juice, brown sugar,...).
Fortunately there are many alternatives, it just takes a little bit more label reading when shopping, for example, for an extremely yummy vegan friendly ice cream, one should try Sweet Nothings besides being very low cal and non fat and no white sugar it tastes extremely delicious.
* Regarding vegans who are paranoid about items that even touched meat.
I am one of those, if there is even a slight suspicion that something either contains or might have come in contact with animal products, I won't eat it, it's as simple as that. At first this was a learned behaviour, since I was definitely not born vegan, but now it's completely automatic. Just thinking about eating non vegan makes me sick, and even some vegan foods like boca burgers don't satisfy me as much, because they taste too much like meat (which is a plus for meat eaters trying to make the transition).
Last but not least, I invite all of you to read a passage of this translation of the Bhagavad Gita which might shed some more light on the fact that many people pay a lot of attention not only to the results (i.e. the food that one eats) but to the means also (i.e. how the food is prepared and where).
peace
"Arjuna! Food is the chief formative force. The soiled mind dulls the brilliance of moral excellence; how can a muddy lake reflect clearly? The Divine cannot be reflected in the wicked or vicious mind. Food makes man strong in body; the body is intimately connected with the mind. Strength of mind depends upon strength of body too. Moral conduct, good habits, spiritual effort, depend upon the quality of the food; diseases, mental weakness, spiritual slackness- all are produced by faulty food".
"Krishna?" asked Arjuna, "pray, tell me the constituents of satvic, rajasic and tamasic foods".
"Arjuna! Food, to be satvic, should be capable of strengthening the mind as well the body It should not be too salty, too hot, too bitter, too sweet or too sour. It should not be taken while steaming hot. Food which fans the flames of thirst should be avoided. The general principle is that there should be a limit, a restraint. Food cooked in water should not be used the next day: it becomes harmful. Even fried articles should be consumed before they develop unpleasant odours Rajasic food is the opposite of satvic. It is too salty, too sweet, too hot, too sour, too odorous. Such food excites and intoxicates"
"Lord, excuse me if I appear impertinent; I ask with a desire to know, that is all. By merely a change in food habits, can character be changed from one guna to another? Or has something more to be done to supplement the purification process? Tell me if there is anything more".
"My dear brother-in-law, if transformation of character were so easy, wickedness and vice, so characteristic of the danava nature, could have been wiped off the surface of the earth in a trice. Of course, there are more things to be done. Listen.
There are three kinds of purities to be observed: purity of provision, purity of the vessel in which the food is prepared, and purity of the persons serving the prepared food.
It is not enough if the provisions are pure and of good quality. They should have been procured by fair means; no unfair, unjust, untrue earnings should be used for one's maintenance. These are fouled at the very source The source as well as the course and the goal must all be equally pure The vessel must be clean, free from tarnish. The person who serves must not only be clean in dress, but clean in habits, character and conduct. He should be free from hate, anger, worry and indifference while serving the dishes; he should be cheerful and fresh. And he must be humble and full of love. While attending upon those who are eating he should not allow his mind to dwell on wicked or vicious ideas. Mere physical cleanliness or charm is no compensation for evil thoughts and habits. The sadhaka who has to secure concentration has to be careful about these restrictions. Otherwise, during dhyanam, the subtle influences of the wicked thoughts of the cook and the servers will haunt the sadhaka. Care should be taken to have only virtuous individuals around. Outer charm, professional excellence, reduced wages, these should not be allowed to prejudice you in favour of harmful cooks and attendants. Examine carefully their habits and their character.
The food you eat is such important constituent of the physical and mental stuff with which you have to struggle in the spiritual field. Purity of mind can be and has to be supplemented by bodily purity as well as purity in its important function, speech That is the real tapas- physical, mental and vocal. The mind should be free from anxiety and worry, hate and fear, greed and pride. lt should be saturated with love for all beings.
It has to dwell in God. It has to be restrained from pursuing objective pleasures. No lower thought should be allowed to creep in; all thoughts must be directed towards the elevation of the individual to higher planes. This is the proper tapas of the mind, or manas.
Now for physical tapas. Use the body and its strength and capabilities for the service of others, for the worship of the Lord, for the singing of His Glory, for visiting places hallowed by His Name, for regulated exercises in breath control, for holding the senses away from deleterious paths, and for treading the path of God. The service of the sick and the distressed, the observance of moral codes and such beneficial acts must make it sacrosanct.
Vocal tapas too has to be engaged in. Avoid talking too much: desist from false statements, do not take delight in back-biting and in scandal-mongering; never speak harshly; speak softly and sweetly; speak with the memory of Madhava ever in the background of the mind. Of these three, physical tapas, mental tapas and vocal tapas, even if one is absent, the atmic effulgence (atmajyoti) cannot radiate light. The lamp, the wick and the oil are all essential for a light; the body is the lamp, the mind is the oil, and the tongue is the wick. All three must be in good order.
Some pious people consider that acts of charity are also physical tapas. It is good that they think so, but, when doing charity, one has to do so after pondering over the place, the time and the nature of the recipient. For example, charities for schools should be given at places where there have been no schools until then; hospitals have to be established in areas where diseases are rampant; hunger has to be appeased where famine conditions have been caused by floods or droughts. The nature and condition of the recipients have to be considered while imparting teaching of dharma and Brahmavidya, and while doing service of various kinds.
The charitable act that removes from a person the deficiency that is most harmful to his progress is called satvic".
"Krishna", interrupted Arjuna, "May I ask a question here? Charity, however done, is charity, is it not? Why do you distinguish them by satvic, rajasic and tamasic? Are there any such? "
Krishna answered, "Of course there are. Among those who donate for charities, most are anxious to get name and fame; that is the motive for the act. They are after something in return for what they offer. Very few desire the grace of the Lord, and nothing else. Gifts made with that one end in view. to receive the grace of the Lord, are satvic. Gifts made expecting something in return, like fame and publicity, esteem and power, or made in a huff, or made reluctantly under pressure, these are to be classed as rajasic"
"Charity should be given with reverence and faith. It should not be just thrown in the face of the recipient. Nor should it be given to an undeserving person or at an inopportune moment. Food for the overfed is a burden, not a boon. Hospitals in places that are inaccessible are as good as charity thrown away. Such benefitless and wasteful charity is called tamasic. While engaged in dana, or charity, one has to be very vigilant. You should not scatter it to whomsoever pleads for it; nor can you shower it on all kinds of places. Be careful that you remember the three types mentioned by Me and then do as seems most proper. The gift you make must not be for name or fame; it should have no motive of pomp or publicity; it should be purposeful and useful. In all acts, the satvic attitude is best. This attitude must permeate all acts, seeing, hearing or speaking".
-- the cake is a lie
Not to blow anybodies mind but US Recommended Daily Allowances are whack. The numbers are artifically low for quite a few catagories due to pressure put on the FDA by corporate food supply lobbies. The processesing of some of your favorite foodstuffs leeches quite a bit of the nutrients from them so therefore the companies are required to reintroduce the nutrients back into it. Now doesn't seem likely they are going to try as hard as they can to keep those requirements as low as possible? Of course it does. If you want some hard facts on the subject, please take the time to look them up. I have not done so, although I have a nutritionist who guides me in this regard.
I used to madly love Pizza Rolls. Not just any sort, but Three Cheese Pizza Rolls. They _ruled_. They were _perfect_ and yummy and actually somewhat filling and had serious pretensions of being Real Food, and I bought 'em constantly.
Then, some years ago, the company improved them by taking out most of the cheese product, changing the name to 'Cheese' from 'Three Cheese', increasing the amount of tomato stuff by making it more watery and thin, and adding specks of black stuff to it. It was _horrible_ and clearly cheaper to make. The shareholders must have been well pleased. I quit buying the things- even now, years later, I will occasionally pick up a bag of 'em as a sort of salute to what they used to be, but the yumminess is really pretty completely gone.
If anyone has a cache of Three Cheese Pizza Rolls somewhere, put 'em up on eBay and point me at 'em? Nostalgia is worth any price. Same goes for original sugar-based (see: Canadian) Coca-Cola. I think if I remember correctly Totino's Party Pizza also was changed horribly from its original junkfood yumminess, but in a less sweeping manner.
Ya know, if these companies didn't have shareholders, they might be a little less pressured to change things which sell (to try and knock off a few cents) while clinging to their tortured userbase at the same time...
To be dangerous.
Many negative effects have been linked to the consumption of dairy products. My mother and brother would both get ear infections during the winter, but not if they stopped drinking milk.
Calcium is useless if you are not able to absorb it. Humans don't need more calcium, they need the magnesium to be able to make use of the calcium.
We are the only species that drinks the milk of another species (no, ants+aphids don't count), and we are the only ones that are never weaned away from it.
Also, tryptophan is NOT found only in milk. Bananas are one example of a tasty fruit product with tryptophan; there are many others, but those can be readily found in books, so I will not list them here.
There have also been studies showing a link between blood type and diet. Such studies find that I, with my type ARh- blood, cannot process animal proteins effectively, and that it is natural for me to become a vegetarian. Since (mostly) eliminating animal sources and caffeine from my diet, I have had far more energy, a better mood, and lost weight, despite no other lifestyle changes. I am not "on a diet", I "have a diet"...I still eat large quantities of food, it's just mostly carbohydrates and vegetables.
It is true that SOME people are not "made" to be vegetarians. My mother feels very faint after about 2 weeks of vegetarianism, so it is not the right choice for her. However, it has done good things for me, and I have no interest in going back. It actually began when I noticed that the digestion of animal products was hard on me when I was ill, but if I stuck to beans/pasta/etc., I was fine. I concluded that it probably wasn't so great for me even when I WASN'T sick...my vegetarianism (and near-veganism) is almost entirely dietary, and has little to do with cute, fuzzy animals.
I strongly suggest that you take care in what you express to be factual. There is not one "right" diet for all human beings, and any attempt to make such sweeping statements is doomed. Yes, your friend may have had a "scientifically balanced diet", but obviously it was not balanced FOR HER. "Modern medicine" still does not really understand the human body.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
Dude.
A couple of weeks ago I saw a box of King Vitaman at Giant Eagle here in Pittsburgh. I didn't think anything of it -- it looked like one of those generic store brand cereals like "Crisped Rice" and "Fruit Rings."
For more information, click here.
The daily requirement for tryptophan is around 500mg, which is readily available from plant sources. Here are some such plant sources (source == Heinz Handbook of Nutrition):
wheat 150-170mg
peas 251mg
soybeans 526mg
pumpkin seeds 560mg
cottonseed flour and meal 591mg
sunflower seed meal 589mg
And useable calcium can be gotten from plant sources. Perhaps not spinach, but brocolli will do nicely.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
Pretty much the only nutrient that's scarce outside of animal products is B12. The bacteria in your gut will supply 25% or so of your daily requirement, and the rest you can get from pills or fortified foods, both of which are bacterial in origin -- soy milks (Whitewave's Silk, WOOHOOO!) often provide 50% of your daily requirement.
There's some disagreement as to whether spirulina and tempeh provide actual useful-for-human-consumption B12 or just "B12 analog" (which is useless to humans but is counted as B12 owing to the nature of the test used).
If you're careful about your diet, you can do just fine as a vegan. If you're an average ovolacto vegetarian (eats eggs & milk), it's pretty much impossible to screw up.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
Everyone has "studies" and "facts" supporting their claims, but most of it is just sophistry to support emotional judgements.
If you want real truth about nutrition, just look at the diets of primitive societies. They didn't cheat on their diets, because they couldn't. There is no confusion over supposed mechanisms, because you are looking at the actual results, without even considering mechanisms.
Yes, eating lots of meat reduces the calcium in your bones, that must be true. Yeah, that's why european explorers and researchers marveled at the incredible strength in the teeth of the eskimos, who ate a diet consisting almost entirely of meat. One notable anecdote is of a fellow, whose fingers proved unequal to the task, removed a tight nut from a bolt with this teeth. They had their problems, but fragile bones weren't an issue.
That's why tribal humans often go to great lengths to acquire meagre servings of meat when they have little of it: because it's bad for them and nature's brutal teaching process has slowly shaped their society into the pursuit of poor health. That makes perfect biological sense, doesn't it?
Actually, a diet of nothing but raw meat contains everything a person needs to be healthy. Every essential nutrient is present in adequate quantities. Mind you, cooking the meat destroys some of these nutrients (like vitamin C), and eating uncooked meat has many dangers, not to mention the cost of meat.
A little meat goes a long way toward fixing all sorts of dietary deficiencies. That's why it's so highly valued in so many cultures.
The truth is that most vegans must be extremely careful with their diets, or end up weak and sickly (and many end up that way no matter how careful they are). They need to take supplements, because there are some things (like B12) that are either very hard or impossible to get from plants. People with normal, balanced diets which include reasonable servings of meat need only be careful not to eat too much (quite possibly the dumbest nutritional problem to face the wealthy areas of the world: too much food).
IMHO, while it's pretty good for most people, in the standard nutrition system taught in schools, grains and dairy products are overemphasized. Milk is a great food... for some people. Others it just makes sick. I haven't seen studies, but I wouldn't be surprised if ancestry was a factor: in some areas of the world, people have been drinking cow's milk as a staple for millennia, while in other areas milk was only recently introduced. At any rate, people can get by without milk. I like to think of it as being similar to wine and beer; alcoholics tend to be rather unsuccessful individuals, and correspondingly a tendency toward alcoholism is much rarer among peoples who have had booze for millennia (smallpox wasn't the only disease europeans brought to the Americas). The point is that some people can drink several servings of alcohol each day, enjoy lower stress, have no long term damage, and show no signs of addiction, while others who try to follow a habit of daily moderate consumption will be destroyed by it. One human isn't biochemically equivalent to another. Grains tend to be processed into nutritionally worthless starch - great for athletes who have trouble keeping up their short-term glycogen stores, but they just make sedentary people fat.
It's a fuzzy area, due to the rather large variations between humans and the rather narrow samples in typical studies, but when you go dramatically against the conventional wisdom of most cultures going back thousands of years (such as the claim that meat is bad for you), you are almost certainly wrong.
Maybe I should give you a couple of facts that will help you change your mind regarding exactly how much more stressful for the environment is to support a meat based diet:
a typical hamburger.
12 Pounds of Grain
It takes about 12 pounds of grain to produce one pound of hamburger. This could make 8 loaves of bread, or 24 plates of spaghetti. Grain consumption by livestock is increasing twice as fast as grain consumption by people. Cattle consume 70% of all US grain.
55 Square Feet of Rainforest
While not all hamburgers come from the rainforest, for every pound of rainforest beef, approximately 660 pounds of precious living matter is destroyed, including 20-30 different plant species, and dozens of birds, mammals and reptiles.
2,500 Gallons of Water
It takes up to 2,500 gallons of water in the state of California to produce one pound of hamburger. This could be used to grow more than 50 pounds of fruits and vegetables. Half of all water consumed in the US is used to grow feed and provide drinking water for cattle and other livestock.
as you can see, if all the world switched to a plant based vegan diet, there would be less strain on the planet, I know this is counter intuitive, and meat and milk boards want it to remain this way.
-- the cake is a lie
Folks,
After reading most of the commentary here, it appears that the programmer/engineer/hacker crowd is in desperate need of learning how to cook and store food properly in BULK.
Ever heard of Tupperware or Rubbermaid containers? A good-sized freezer? Or best of all, a decent home vacuum-sealing system?
As for me, I do it this way: I make things like meat sauces, chicken a la king, or cooked frozen peas/whole kernel corn in large batches, then divy them up among a whole bunch of Tupperware containers (I put a few slices of baked ham on top of the peas/corn) and put them in the freezer. That way, I just cook up some rice with a decent rice cooker (I have a Japanese-made 3-cup Zojirushi unit), then put the container with the food in it in a microwave oven for 8-12 minutes, then serve with the rice.
You can do variants of this by using a Tilia Foodsaver vacuum sealing system, so you can freeze a whole meal into a vacuum-sealed bag and then drop it in a pot of boiling water to cook it later.
Given that the methods I mentioned can include most every type of food, you don't have to be stuck with fast food or worse just to get a decent meal. Break the hamburger and pizza habit!
Getting off nutrition soapbox,
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
There is *ample* epidemiological evidence of the non-toxicity of vitamin C. Millions of Americans have been consuming large daily doses for decades. If an excessive amount of vitamin C caused any health problem at all, we would have an epidemy of major proportions by now.
Of course, a personal anecdote does not prove anything, but I have taken 1000mg of vitamin C daily for more than 25 years. I also consume a lot of calcium, drink a lot of milk and eat a lot of cheese. I never had any sort of kidney problem.
Moderators, take note:
1)Read the moderation guidelines before moderating anything
Meat makes you strong. This isn't a modern fad, but a truism held among the majority of cultures for all history. Meat eaters are, in general, bigger and stronger than vegetarians. This applies both in individual and cultural comparisons. People of wealthy countries in southeast asia are getting larger, rapidly approaching the size of typical westerners, where they've added more meat to their diet. The most important thing about meat is the concentration of protien in usable form, though it contains other important nutrients.
It's true, though, that most people in wealthy western countries easily get enough protein. That doesn't mean that a diet of meatless burritos wouldn't be short on protein.
The rise in fragile bones among young people is just one among many growing nutrition problems due mostly to the wierdly picky yet lazy eating habits of a spoiled generation, and, more fundamentally, the disappearance of the traditional homemaker and isolation of the child-raising household from the traditional helpers (like grandparents and other close relatives). Where do you learn good eating habits? From your mother, of course. If she makes sure you eat three squares a day and stay away from sugary treats and garbage fried in rancid oil, you tend to follow those guidelines. If she lets you have anti-food like pop tarts for breakfast and Coke as your staple beverage because she doesn't have the time or support to develop proper parenting skills (rather, I should say, mothering skills, since a father's traditional role is rather different) which allow her to efficiently deal with a child's determined opposition (or simply doesn't have time for anything healthy, which I feel is a lesser issue), you tend to follow those habits as well (and start out your independent adult life already unhealthy from a poor diet).
Convenience food is bad food. Someone in the household needs to spend about an hour or two each day in preparing real food, or the family's health suffers. Even if people have the right idea about what foods are good, they need time to make it. It's a cultural problem, based on overprideful specialization which devalues the skills of ability for direct action. People are expected to do nothing but pursue money, and are chastised if they try to provide for their loved ones other than through purchasing. A homemade garment is ridiculed, a wholesome home-cooked meal is less desired than food-like items from McDonalds, and people are even looked down on for having their hair cut at home. It's a sad state of affairs.
IIRC, John Wayne had lung cancer, after being a heavy smoker for decades.
OTOH, Linda McCartney was a vegan, and died of cancer as well. She wasn't a smoker, so in her case, it was probably a diet induced disease.
Moderators, take note:
1)Read the moderation guidelines before moderating anything
You wnat to hear somrthing that truly sucks? There is a very small portion of the population that is allergic to coffee...and I'm one of them. I see all of these Starbucks and drive through coffee shops, and hear people like you talking about their latte's and espresso's, and I'll never know what any of them are actually like.
:\
A demi-tasse would literally kill me
There is nothing so pathetic as seeing a beautiful young theory roughed up by a tough gang of facts.
I've been thinking of starting up an open recipe archive which caters to the geek population
Ah, you mean like The Geek Gourmet? I think this site was actually mentioned on Slashdot a few months back.
1. Are there going to be more stores offering these Dilbertos?
2. How much do they cost?
3. Will there eventually be more varieties offered?
I'm sorry. What I meant to say was 'please excuse me.'
what came out of my mouth was 'Move or I'll kill you!'
Did you know that you can get 100% of all dialy vitamins from 43 pints of Guinness and a glass of milk? Mmmm, healty!
I don't eat Beef. I don't care what the Beef Industry says :P
Although I do know that you need protein to strengthen your bones and muscles. I understand that protein doesn't "keep you going" but you need it to build yourself up...
You should never take life too seriously - You'll never get out of it alive.
A geek buddy of mine actually had a doc prescribe a dilute caffeine solution added to the drip during the week or so of recovery because his withdrawl symptoms were interfering with his ability to heal.
Personally, I'll stick to morphine when I'm at hospital: Not only do you not notice the coffee/nicotine withdrawl, you can ignore the visiting relatives too!
.sig: Now legally binding!
Finally, who says cereals don't go well with colas? Pour a handful of Cap'n Crunch into a wide-mouthed tumbler of Jolt Cola. Drink the Jolt straining it through the crunchy things as they release extra sugar into the acidic pool of cola. Yum!
(Damned if I know why it works, my guess would be that it prevents you from chugging the Jolt all at once, encouraging you to sip slowly... turning a slam-blast of caffeine into a slow IV-drip-style dosage all night long. At least for me, 2-3 cans' worth of Jolt makes the second consecutive all-nighter go pretty well...)
ObGeekFood:
- Pound of ground beef.
- 1 yellow onion
26-oz jar of tomato sauce.
- 15-oz can of stewed tomatoes.
- 6 cloves garlic, finely-chopped
- Butter/olive oil/other-frying-liquid.
- Assorted spices - oregano, basil, chili powder for me...
- Start with garlic, finely-chopped, until sizzling in about 1 tablespoon olive oil or butter.
- Add beef. Fry until half-cooked.
- Slice onion while beef cooks, throw into mix. Add your spices at this time.
Dump in tomato sauce.
- Let simmer while you throw in the stewed tomatoes.
- Add any other spices to taste, and let simmer for at least an hour, bubbling off the water and turning the runny liquid sauce you get from a can (made even more liquid with the goop from the stewed tomatoes) into a rich, thick, brownish-red sauce.
The recipe is versatile and amenable to tweaking. The default mode makes killer spaghetti sauce. Use about half as much tomato sauce, and add more chili powder or swap the stewed tomatoes for chopped chilies, and you've got taco filling.
For the single geek, take half the sauce and put it in the fridge for use during the next few days. Take the other half and put it in the freezer, for that "it tastes like it took 2 hours to cook" feeling when you only have 10 minutes. There's at least a week's worth of pasta meals, probably two weeks if you stretch it, in the recipe outlined above.
Insight #1: For me, food, like hacking, is about experimenting.
When I need a caffeine fix, a can of Jolt is at the ready. When I need pure sugar, I call for the Cap'n. When I wanna make a week's worth of supper for $10.00 ($2.00 for sauce, $3.00 for beef, $2.00 for veggies and spices, $1.00 for the tomatoes, $2.00 for a pound and a half of pasta), I put in two hours and do the sauce thing.
Insight #2: It's cheaper to eat well than to eat poorly.
Cap'n Crunch: $4.00+ per box. Pure sugar.
Jolt Cola: $1.00 per can, at least where I live. Pure sugar.
Supper for a week-and-a-half: $10.00, or $1.00 per night. Contains fats from beef, protein from beef, carbs from pasta, and whatever nutrients in the veggies survive the cooking process. But dollar-for-dollar, a hell of a lot better eatin' than the first alternatives.
Insight #3: Cooking good food doesn't take that long after all.
2 hours for the pasta sauce sounds like a lot - but amortized over 10 days, it's 12 minutes a day.
You can't be talking to the guy you replied to, since he was ranting about the gross overconsumption of protein. You certainly can't be talking to me, since I agreed that most Americans (being meat-eaters, and overfed at that) get plenty of protein.
I also agree that an excess of meat is bad for you. It collects in the colon, rots, and causes intestinal problems, for one thing. Eating too much of any one thing is bad for you. The best diet is a balanced one, and, for most people, including a moderate amount of meat.
Athletes vary widely in their eating habits (BTW, why would you except pro wrestlers? I wouldn't call them athletes per se, but the good ones are incredibly strong and shockingly agile for such large men), from vegans to people who pig out on fried chicken weekly. Most are more moderate and eat well-balanced meals with appropriate servings of meat, like I try to. Many take protein supplements. I can't figure out where your "chocolate-shake-and-fries" thing came from, since I only mentioned such diets as an unfortunate trend.
The Chinese love meat as much as any people on the planet. Their pictograph for happiness even contains the image of a pig. Are you going to tell me that's the sign of a society which has long considered meat undesirable? However, it is true that they don't eat anywhere near the quantities of meat typical of western countries.
As for the peoples of India, a great many of them have religious prohibitions against eating meat, so I wouldn't expect them to have anything good to say about it (the same would apply to many Chinese vegetarians). You might, however, read about Ghandi's little adventure in carnivorism, and the reasoning that led him to it (it doesn't really support my point, but it's amusing). At any rate, protein deficiency is fairly common in India.
Regardless of whether your claims about these countries are true, they are occupied by people of generally small stature. How, exactly, does that support the notion that eating meat doesn't affect stature?
Sure, you can live without meat, if you're careful to get a complete diet. I don't dispute that. I do, however, say that meat is a wholesome food that contains the most essential ingredients for growth. Most people are better off with it than without it.
"most people who smoke will shorten their life" - (off topic, but while we're at it...) not necessarily true. First of all, most smokers ridiculously overindulge. They should be called "smoking addicts" or some such thing, to distinguish them from responsible smokers as "alcoholic" distinguishes alcohol addicts from responsible drinkers. I smoke a pipe once every few weeks, and I honestly believe it will never harm me. Secondly, some people are more vulnerable to smoking-related illness than others. Women, for instance, are much more likely to get lung cancer from smoking than men are. Women should never smoke, or have to work in places where they are constantly exposed to second-hand smoke. Some men, though, are quite capable of smoking through their entire lives without any side-effect. However, I do believe that men who get sick from smoking are mostly people who abuse tobacco in an insane manner, rather than smoking a few cigarettes per week, they smoke a several per day, or even over a pack, to the point that it impairs them even in the short term. That's just stupid, they shouldn't be surprised when they get sick from it. At any rate, it's not good for you, but I think most men could get away with it without any ill effects, if only they'd be reasonable about their usage.
Yeah, it was really rude, but geez, that can't be healthy! I just got this image in my mind of a starved person I saw on TV; I guess he was probably more like 70 or 90 lbs, but that's still not that far. He mentioned that he didn't eat properly, so it sounded like he could really be hurting himself (forgetting to eat to the point of endangering your health: anorexia neglecta?).
Besides, that's how I talk to everyone. I'll be having a conversation, when suddenly I'll realize how stupid the person is. I'll say "My God, you're stupid! For the sake of humanity I hope you aren't planning on breeding." Or I'll notice that one of my co-workers is drinking too much coffee and I'll go up to him and say "Gods below! You pathetic drug addict! At least 3 major religions say you're going to hell." Or I'll notice that my girlfriend has bought a new dress, and I'll say "By the First Turnip! Did you look in a mirror before you bought that? Don't you know how fat your ass looks in that dress?" You know, whatever I can do to help in my uniquely tactful way. ^_^
If you want a sixpack, the trick is to lose the fat over your abs. Sorry, it's true. Everybody has those same muscles, you just can't see them because they're under the fat. It doesn't take a lot of fat, just the normal healthy amount. You have to ask yourself if it's worth it to get rid of it. It's not really healthy to lose every last bit of fat from your body. You need that fat to produce some hormones and stuff (yeah, I'm fuzzy on the details). It's also very hard to put on muscle mass if you don't have a little fat on your body (not a lot of fat - that's just hard to lose later), so don't go through the hardship of getting ripped if you still want to put on more muscle. It's also easier to lose fat when you have more muscle.
If you really decide you must lose fat (as I do from time to time; I compete at judo, and it's a weight-category sport), I'm a bit of an extremist, so you might not want to follow my advice (read: "don't follow my advice, I'm a wierdo; presented only for entertainment value"). I like the fat fast. It's a kind of controlled starvation, in which you eat only to attempt to preserve your muscle-mass. Oddly, this means eating almost pure fat, and only in very small quantities. It also means not exercising hard, because you won't have the energy, and your body will want to switch to eating your muscles if you use them. I have pretty good self-control (or maybe I'm just too lazy to figure out more appetizing acceptable food), so I just eat spoonfuls of salad oil. Drink lots of water (you have to flush out those ketones), and feel free to have a little alcohol (as long as there's no sugar in the booze), as it drives you deeper into ketogenesis. I won't provide any links to more information, but it's out there. I don't really recommend it for anyone, though it's probably healthier than what some wrestlers do to make weight...
Anyway, back on topic:
Leglifts work the psoas (hip flexors) more than your abs, which only play a supporting role. This is also true for a large part of situps. A situp is actually a crunch, followed by an isometric contraction while the psoas do the actual lifting. However, it's hard to get a good workout out of crunches on a flat floor.
Your lower abs really aren't seperate from your upper abs. They're part of the same chain, and anything that works one, works the other.
The trick to working out your abs is to exercise over a full range of motion, and to add weight when you need it. You know the way they teach you to do proper crunches? You lie on your back with your hips at a 90 degree angle, and your calves resting on a chair or something (this way, you only work your abs, not your psoas). Anyway, the problem here is that when you curl your abdomen, you're going all the way up, but you hit the floor long before you get all the way down (your back arches as well as curls). You have to put something under your butt and lower back so you can work over a larger range of motion. Ideally, you'd have a bench that matched the natural curve of your arched back, but you can simulate this fairly well on an incline situp bench with a properly sized cushion under your lower back.
Also, don't get silly with numbers. It's better to hold a dumbbell on your chest or behind your head so you can barely do 10 slow crunches than it is to do 150 unweighted crunches. Large weights are best for building muscle, large numbers of reps adapt your muscle to endurance.
However, while it's good to work your abs, the best way to put muscle on them is to work hard at the One True Lift. The OTL varies from person to person, either the deadlift or the squat. It works muscles all over your body and in some odd way puts muscle on everywhere. I have no idea why, but it works.
You'd elect this over ramen noodles?
The proper pronunciation is "ramyun". I don't know how it got anglicized to "ramen" - I guess we shouldn't complain when they do similar things to our words.
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
dolphins eat fish
And do you know *what* those damn fishes do in the water that you drink?
On the other hand, dolphins do the same, so they both should be punished.
-- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
Generic-man dun said:
Yup, they still sell King Vitaman (it's actually fairly easy to find here in Kentucky--I know I've seen it at Kroger's, Winn Dixie, AND Meijer's (the three big stores in Louisville) and odds are they also carry it at Food Lion, Foodland, and Piggly Wiggly (the other three big stores here in Kentucky, just not in Louisville); I can prolly find out for sure in the case of Foodland in about a month or so). I am all too familiar with the stuff, having been fed it by parents who seemed to have an outright paranoia about iron-deficiency anemia. :P
Oddly, the stuff isn't generic like Malt-O-Meal; it's actually made by Quaker (you know, the oats folks) which explains much on why they were promoting the healthy aspects of it...
King Vitaman doesn't quite count as a blast-from-the-past for me, though. A REAL blast-from-the-past would be, oh, Count Chocula or Frankenberry or (gods help me) QUISP (yes, so help me Cthulhu, they sell all three here, though the latter usually only in the big hypermarkets or at Sam's and super-Wal-Marts).
And, again, I see how I was deprived as a kid...I never had Captain Crunch till I was over drinking age, because my parents never bought it (it was "too expensive", so we'd get tons of Apple Jacks and Cheerios and King Vitaman and (if money was REALLY tight) the Malt-O-Meal knockoffs of Apple Jacks and Fruit-Loops). I am probably one of three people who has been born and lived all their life in the United States who has never, ever, not ONCE had Tang (I am not joking, either; my parents were somehow convinced that if we had ANY drinks with real sugar in them, we would become instantly diabetic, so Tang was right out; Kool-Aid wasn't because you could make it with saccharine or Nutrasweet [gee, folks, thanks; replace my (minimal) risk of diabetes with a greater chance of cancer and PMS, not to mention that thanks to all the Nutrasweet I won't have to worry about embalming my body thanks to all the formaldehyde...]). I still don't know exactly what the stuff tastes like. :) I also never had Cream of Wheat till this year (my folks always having gotten either good old oatmeal or grits).
Oddly (tying in with the prize thing), though, I was all too familiar with Ovaltine in my youth (another fun drink of which the "healthy" virtues have been promoted to death). Yes, they still did the crap with the cap lids for prizes. Yes, I sympathised with Ralphie all too much in "A Christmas Story" because, likewise, I'd drunk gallons of Ovaltine as a kid. And most folks have never SEEN Ovaltine. Hmph. :)
-Windigo The Feral (NYAR!)
Some anonymous coward dun said:
I was fortunate to get out of dissections in biology (long story--basically, we ended up going through three teachers in a semester, and none stayed long enough to get to the dissection section) but the thing about "dead carcasses" puzzles me..hell, at least they're DEAD.
So instead, you eat very-much-living plant lungs and plant fetuses and plant-stomachs and plant, erm, naughty-bits? ;) (Greatest way to troll those "meat-is-murder" folks: Explain to them how those soybeans they're eating are essentially plant abortions. ;)
Seriously, though...realistically, the idea that meat comes from animals doesn't make me sick, really (though I think that some practices in factory-farming need to be done away with because they're not really good for the animals OR people eating them). Then again, I used to live next door to a working beef-cattle farm and have relatives who hunt for meat, so that could explain why I don't go "My god, you're eating BAMBI!" when I decide to eat some venison. ;9 (Then again, I also know someone who turned vegetarian after his pet pig at his grandma's farm ended up being the main course one night...and I can only imagine the trauma caused by the sign "PET EATING RABBITS" that used to be up by a rabbit-breeders close to where I used to live... :)
Realistically, though, about the ONLY thing that really gets me physically ill is, well, maggots (I literally can't watch the infamous "birth scene" in the 1986 remake of "The Fly" because I get physically ill). As long as the meat isn't flyblown I'm ok. ;)
-Windigo The Feral (NYAR!)
Al "I Invented The Internet!" Gore dun said:
No, no, no...you misunderstand...
We're not talking "vegetarian food" like tofu and soy-milk and "meat substitute" and GardenBurgers...
We're talking "vegetarian food" as in, say, Emeril "The Dick Vitale Of Cooking, Baby" Lagasse's "Emeril Lagasse Cooks Vegetarian"...
"First, you get a vegetarian. BAM! Git back dere in dat grindah!"
;)
-Windigo The Feral (NYAR!)
I find it surprising that a slashdotter would insist on an engineering degree as evidence of competence in the profession.
He does have, as you said, a good grasp of the properties of technology, and other disciplines, which he probably did learn from working at Pac Bell. But -- and he has written this himself -- he has no FORMAL engineering training.
My instinct is that he is more a watcher than a geek, an anthropologist of business culture rather than an ESR-type anthropologist of geeks, and that he is more of a businessman THAN ANYTHING ELSE. HE can imitate geekishness well, through observation. (Remember "Engineers in the Mist">)
I think that geekishness is not Adams's primary feature. A businessman, a humorist, a cartoonist (whose cartoons' funniness is decliing, IMO), but less geeky than any of those.
Ceterum censeo Microsoftam esse delendam.
Err... excuse me? I don't admit to myself that I kill animals? I wasn't aware of that. Why exactly are you the authority on what vegans think?
As a matter of fact, vegans (at least the smart ones) are well aware of the fact that we aren't perfect. No matter how hard I try to minimize the suffering that my diet causes, there's always going to be something more that I could have done. The difference between a vegan and a meat-eater (in a very pithy sense) is that vegans typically do the best they can, and meat-eaters typically do not. Can you say "I try my best to prevent suffering" and then eat a quarter pounder with cheese? Is it ethical not to try your best to prevent suffering?
-jacob
I suppose, if you think of organic vegan as vegans who won't eat anything that they didn't grow themselves. However, there exist plant algae that produce B12, which is why there are vegetarian B12 vitamins. Also, you don't need much B12 at all, and it stays in your body forever if you have a surplus. Yes, vegans should make sure they get B12 supplements occasionally (but look in vegan prepackaged foods: many are B12-fortified). But it's really not that big of a deal.
-jacob