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OpenGL for Palm OS Environment
linuxguru wrote to us with the news that some wacky folks have ported OpenGL 1.1 to PalmOS. Current version is .2, and it's released under the LGPL [?] .
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That OpenGL isnt just for games. It wasnt even designed for that. One of the first things I thought of for this was a VRML browser. I'm sure you can think of other utils.
Just because MS have demoted GL to screensavers only doesnt mean you have to!
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
It's totally a matter of preference. I have large hands, long fingers. The 2100 is just the right size for me. The fact that I can't get something with that much screen real estate any more without also getting a hard drive irks me to no end.
And really, the 2100 can fit with just a little struggle into a jeans back pocket. More to the point, I have a pouch in the front-center of my bike-messenger-style bag that fits it _perfectly_, and that bag goes with me everywhere I go.
I don't think the larger screen is for everyone, but I'm frustrated that currently if I had to replace my 2100, I'd have to get another 2100 somewhere, because getting a Palm or WinCE device would be like buying a 15" monitor to replace my aging 20" one....
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I guess we can go ahead with that Quake 3 port now, eh?
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
At least for me, the Palm is a tool just as much as my desktop computer.
It allows me to concentrate more brainpower on remembering important things, and less on things like dates, addresses, and phone numbers. I'd much rather fill my brain with things I need to use constantly, rather than mundane details.
Of course, I tend to be extremely absent-minded about things like that anyway -- so the palm is a natural extension that makes up for that deficiency. Anything important enough that I might need it agaqin, but not important enough to spend time memorizing, goes into the palm.
This isn't to say that I'd be lost without it. In fact, just recently, my Palm III took an overnight in a snowbank (the clip came off my belt, and in a bulky winter jacket, I didn't notice until I was home (and then thought I might have left it on my desk). It still worked once it dried out - but the screen was shot. So, for a couple weeks, I was without it. It was an inconvenience actually having to look up info on phone numbers and such - but I managed. The important stuff was in my brain, not the palm.
Now, I've temporarily replaced the III with a new IIIe (only until the local shops start having IIIxe's in stock - then it gets handed off to my fiancee). It's nice to have it again, but I know I could definitely survive without it.
Convenience is a virtue, but it's not an excuse for ignorance. Put the important stuff in your brain where it counts, and leave the rest to the palm. That's my philosophy anyway =)
-- an animation player for QT-style movies (these might exist fpr Palm, but I haven't seen them)
/. kept adding a space in my </a>)
Check
-- a Web browser with GIF and JPG support
Check
(BTW, if the links are messed up, it's because
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Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
IMO the biggest problem for Quake is the interface. The Palm buttons really should be a cross on each side with a wheel in the middle ( + | + ) - then non-stylus control would be much more powerful and (games) programmers could do directional stuff much more naturally.
Palm suceeded because it *DIDN'T* have those things.
Newton failed because it did.
If you want a full-function computer, buy a full-function computer.
I'm not sure where you guys are drawing your experience from. Mine is totally contrary.
Most people who would only use a Palm for "the basics" don't buy a Palm at all, in my experience.
Remember what we're talking about here; a gadget that fits in your hand, but is essentially a Mac SE without a floppy drive.
I only know one person who bought a Palm and didn't use it for anything except the basics.
She sold it to me before long.
Half the people in my office have them, and they all use downloaded apps. 90% of the system administration teams have them, and they all use downloaded apps.
Yeah... I got one around CHristmas time, only to realize that pretty much every name, address, number, email address, etc is all permanently stored in my head... so the palm really acts as a backup, and for storing one-off things for places that i probably won't ever call again... For instance, pizza delivery in Dallas, a nightclub in San Francisco... Stuff i probably won't call again, but just maybe i will...
I did find one AWESOME application for it though... GNUkeyring... Secure storing of all my passwords... That's it's killer app for me... It also generates completley random passwords, so i ended up using it to regenerate all my passwords, so they weren't just variations on the same theme.
Plus, there's pocketchess!
I don't know... I aspired to put my entire life into my palm pilot, but once i did, i realized it really wasn't all that i once hoped it would be.
But back on subject... What in the world does opengl on the palm accomplish?!? Let people play quake on the train via a wireless connection? Will people controll themselves with Stylus'? I think i might be ready to dismiss this, and ask that maybe bored developers could create things of "real use" rather than doing things just to see if they can? I'm sorry.
More reliable? I've had to do many more hard resets, having to restore all my data on each of both my Palm Pilot and my Palm III, than the handful of times I've ever had to do soft resets on my Cassiopeia E-105 (which has never needed a hard reset). Give it a try before you speak next time.
Combined with the fact that there is no decent Doom for the Palm, and that the color graphics, sound, and screen size on those machines is a joke compared to the Cassiopeia, I'll stick with my choice anyday.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Not sure what you're getting at. The program I mentioned isn't an emulator, it's Doom (Jimmy Software has also released their own free port of Doom, Doom4CE). The only reason I mentioned the color GameBoy emulator is because the version of CE Doom that I mentioned is made by the same guy (guys?) who produced PalmGB. For anyone who's tried this amazing little piece of software, they know that these guys write some damn good code. (As does Jimmy Software, come to think of it.)
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
It's based on the original Linux source release from Id, and is brought to you by the same wizard (wizards?) who produced the greatest entertainment app of all time on any PDA: PalmGB, the color Gameboy emulator for WinCE. More info available here, as long as you're willing to put up with the midis playing in the background. ;) (Actually, the one playing on the Doom screen is pretty cool, but I digress.)
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
They're certainly planning something like that:
Their full press release is here.
I think, am not sure, that WinCE already has some implementation of Direct3D, but as most of the hardware it runs on is relatively low powered (handhelds) it's not taken advantage of or implemented in those low end devices. But I Think that the API itself is present or can be added easily if the developer needs it. Doesn't the dreamcast use WinCE and D3D for some applications?
This sounds like something that was done just to prove it could be done, so people could say "You know, they ported OpenGL to the palm pilot".
But, surely as the palm grows in hardware and display, it could become useful. I'd bet a high-end palm probably has more CPU power then the 486 you played doom on, or at least more then the 386 you played wolf-3d on. I'd really like to see someone port (or develop) some games now. Perhaps the GPL'd quake engine? (How fast is the software rendering there using?)
Heh, imagine being able to say, "You know, they ported GL quake to the palm pilot"...
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ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
WinZip handles tarred and/or gzipped files just fine, if you're on a Windows box.
For more information, click here.
Sega Dreamcast hardware has two API's. One of these is a proprietary Sega one, the other is Windows CE. The idea is that bad PC games can be ported to DC easily (and the WinCE games are usually the ones with the worst framerate, BTW). But yes, there is Direct X for Windows CE!
Daniel
Of course, I think that they are missing out on a lot of cool things, and this is one of them.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
That Jornada you were looking at was a Handheld PC
Yeah, you're right, I was referring to the Jornada HPC not their Palms-sized devices. I looked at those too but I figured thatPalmOS was better than Wince straight up -- and a Wince would have to offer more for me to consider it. The HPC version did that by offering MP3 playback and memos etc -- but at the expense of size.
My point again (more clarified this time): For me small enough to carry is the most important feature, everything else comes after. Other things like color, music, app compatibility, battery life, and voice support are secondary, but they also matter.
In the end, for me the Palm V won out because (Small + battery life + compatibility) > (MP3+voice+color) but small was the most important factor!
-rt-
** Evil Canadians are taking over the world. Learn about the conspiracy
Awesome. I'm posting this from my Palm IIIe. Really!
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blinko - "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down"
It's C++ from the beginning to the end, and it's very cleverly written for speed and low memory print. It also has a unique way of handling faults - especially out of memory conditions, which means that application very seldom crash at all - you have to use that one for a while to really appreciate it :)
Epoc is also 32 bit all the way, and has low level support for everything you need to develop networking applications (everything is gonna be done wireless soon :)
I think the rumours about Nokia and Motorola using the Palm UI ontop of the Epoc core says a lot - no matter if they're true or not.
Psion began developing Epoc in the early 90's - this is not a new operating system. It's old, well understood, is written for low memory battery powered devices from the beginning - it's what we all want.
At least I want a Quartz device!
it's in my head
This can nicely be used for 3D navigation, and in the future even for 3D scanning. Beautiful.
You can't handle the truth.
But it brings my next comment. Most people who have palm pilots aren't going to mess with them and run fancy software on them. For the most part all I've seen palms used for is email reading and playing games on. Ohh yeah and as a schedule book.
So miniGL is out for the palm. Does this mean anything really to the average palm user? Not really. But it brings another question ... why isn't the palm being used to it's full potential. It's almost a waste of resources. Like anyone who buys a pIII just to email and surf the web and play quake.
But the palm itself has the game planned quite well. It's easy for the average user to use, but also the power user can use it also. So yes developement for the palm shall and will go on.
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
(Of course it would demand a bit more processing power( and a keyboard)).
Not to mention a CD-ROM drive. Heck, why not just hook up a DVD drive?
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I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
As for development environments, Metrowerks makes CodeWarrior for Mac and Windows, and there is a port of GCC available for any platform that can run GCC. Quite a few projects use GCC. You don't get the nice UI layout tools (though that may have changed since the last time I checked) but there really isn't anything you can't do with it that you can with the Metrowerks package.
That Jornada you were looking at was a Handheld PC (HPC -- the type that have keyboards) model, though, wasn't it? There are also Palm-sized (PPC) Jornadas which have the features you mentioned, except for Pocket Word/Excel, although it does have Outlook. They're the size of non-V Palms -- the Compaq Aeros have that sweet Palm V size and shape -- so they're definitely made to fit in your jacket pocket. Not trying to make you think twice about your purchase or anything, just wanted to point out that the Jornada HPCs aren't really analagous to the Palms.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Did anyone else follow the teapot Link on the page? It was pretty interesting reading, and anyone who's done any 3d modeling will probably get a kick out of it... Unfortunately, almost all of the external links (from the teapot page) were dead :(
[ c h a d   o k e r e ]
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I guess that this means microsoft will quickly follow suit with a Direct3D Port to WinCE?
Actually I think this really is some cool first steps.
For those that have a palm the Mathlib takes about 50K and the test app takes about 17k.
Noel
RootPrompt.org -- Nothing but Unix
kayaking
Hey, does anyone know how the internals of this thing are arranged? If anything OpenGL is not a light API, so I doubt they used the standard openGL pipeline. If you think about it though, 3D on palmtops does stand a change, but OpenGL might not really be the best idea at this point. Back in the day, (386 days) you could acutally get a fairly non-complex, but usable 3D system on a 386-16. The dragon ball in the palm 3 is maybe slightly more powerful (20 MHz 68x00 I think) so it should be possible to get a decent API with OpenGL code interface to it. Also, does the dragonball have an fpu? Performance would die even more if it were using fpu emultation. (GL needs floats) Methinks a better target for this would be the CE machines as they are already coming in with 131MHz MIPS procs.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Now with the introduction of MiniGL and the Palm IIIc, it is conceivable that one could write a color 3d application for the Palm platform. The possibilities for development are endless, only marred by processing power. This may make OpenGL the only true graphics "standard", since it can now run on machines other than desktops!
"In individuals, insanity is rare, but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule." -Nietzsche
Edward Patel wrote a 3D modeling tool for the Palm OS which can export to VRML and OpenGL:
? sid=65968720000302182859&prodID=6263
:)
http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm
With miniGL and this modeler as examples it's definitly interesting what's next. There's definitely a market for 3D apps on handhelds, there is just time needed to bring the render/calc power of a handheld more up to par
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Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
However, it seems that Palm has a much more open development environment - I know you can get Palm SDKs for just about any platform - is the same true of Epoc?
Nick
-- "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park" - Jim Moran
Once again, the Palm platform gets capabilities that were available 2-3 years ago on the Newton. (*sigh, brush away tear)
Now that there's rudimentary OpenGL, all Palm needs is:
-- text-to-speech integrated with all text displaying widgets
-- handwriting recognition that doesn't make you write in martian and that works all over the screen at any angle
-- a screen big enough to read more than a paragraph at a time
-- an animation player for QT-style movies (these might exist fpr Palm, but I haven't seen them)
-- a Web browser with GIF and JPG support
-- a 200+ MHz processor
...and then we'd have reinvented the MessagePad 2100, and we could start THINKING about improving on the state of the art, circa 1997.
(*sigh) Newton, we barely knew ye... Although someone knew ye well enough to make an OpenGL port in '98 or so.
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