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Test Drive Debian at Compaq
Jacob wrote in to tell us about Compaq adding Debian (potato) to the list of systems available for use in Compaq's "Test Drive" program. From the press release: "By registering for a shell account at http://www.testdrive.compaq.com
developers can evaluate the Debian distributions running on Compaq
AlphaServers and ProLiant Servers. Current Debian systems are:
AlphaServer DS20 (ev6), AlphaServer XP1000a(ev6.7), and ProLiant
5500 (x86 PIII). All systems have at least two (2) gigs of ram and as
much as 100 gigs of '/home' storage courtesy of a network file system." Wicked-slick.
They've also got an 8 node 500 mhz 21264 beowulf cluster available... ;)
so, are they trying to make friends in the developer community, or are they trying to test new hardware?
I apologize for posting this in several stories, but Rob Malda needs to know how we feel.
Doing a test povray image, povray compiled with gcc finished in 12 minutes, with their Alpha compiler, just over 4!
This compares with 15 on my Celeron 300a.
The Compaq compiler was available on the Red Hat machine, I hope it is available under the debian one, too. If it isn't, ask for it!
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
OFF TOPIC:
correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there just a release of the slashdot code??
I don't know, the things that seem to bother this AC don't really bother me...what? there is ONE banner at the top, that's hardly anything compared to most sites this size, or larger.
DISCLAIMER: this is probably troll bait, so before you start, please consider that I do not mean it that way.
Personally, posts from trolls waste my time, I don't troll, much less want to read them, so why cherrish(sp?) them?? I have yet find a troll that anyone, especially Rob should "treasure".
my 2 cents.
Ok, this is a test run that we haven't really had access to in the past. Pretty sporting of Compaq to show their hand. However, AlphaServers and ProLiants are not exactly new, or exceptional hardware. When are we going to see the communal tests on something that is more in the range of a Turbo Laser 8400? After all they do own DEC.
More race stuff in one place,
than any one place on the net.
I tried it out when they started the program, it was really cool! Of course it only really matters if you're a developer or an OS nut or something, but still...
;)
Bottom line: if you've got an app that you want to compile and run, cross platform, get an account!
Oh yeah, and to all the Trolls: they've got a Beowulf cluster, too!
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
It sounds like the big beige box folks are beginning to see the profitability in offering Linux. Now, hopefully, they'll start adding pressure to application companies to begin porting more major programs over. Perhaps we may see more name-brand boxes offering more desktop systems with differing flavors of Linux, which will find their way into corporate american cubicals. With horsepower like this, we can only hope.
"First things first, but not necessarily in that order."
- Doctor Who
When I tested Tru64 on their Alpha 21264 6 months ago they sent me a free model car (ala Test Drive) in the mail (Canada). I also managed to get a licence plate that says:
Compaq 1999
LIVE FREE OR DIE
LINUX
EraseMe
Not only is this the _THIRD_ time this has been posted on /., but they also used to run banner ads for it.
On another note, I signed up for this, and the guy running it is a friggin geek GOD. The whole thing is automated, runs NIS, etc, etc.
very, very cool toys indeed.
--
blue
i browse at -1 because they're funnier than you are.
Man, why you hating on trolls. [sniff* sniff*] Everybody hates us. We're people too and have feelings.
Moderators suck.
what are you talking about?
what compaq is doing is allowing developers to have shell access to a bunch of 'test' systems, so people can play with them. you telnet to them and play around. that's it.
-----
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
looks interesting, checking it out now.
I wonder how long it will take before someone
decides to try running a rc5 client on there.
Actually, there probably already is one there.
Me, im gonna be running snake.
But seriously, it's a cool way to promote your
product to the public. Lets those who like
dabbling and havent run around with the hardware
and OS's have a play with them, I personally see
it as novel way for Uni students, or those who just want to learn about it, to get a bit more familiar with the hard & software. Another thing
to put down as experience!
but spud might have a point there, time to bring
out the old rocketmail account methinks.
idiot
almost everyone moderates
i hate it when newbies come to slashdot just to troll (they don't even have a karma whoring account - and don't know what i mean by that, most likely) and think that there's some sort of "moderator group"
I don't know that he's outed himself as a Socialist. I don't know that you've outed yourself as a Capitalist.
I know which I'd prefer!
I certainly don't know of RMS advocating piracy of shrinkwrapped software.
It's odd you don't include URLs to back up any of this...
Debian -> Linux -> OSS in general owes a massive debt to the FSF and RMS for pusing these issues since (it appears) before you were born.
I think I'll boycott you until you learn to respect the community.
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
That none of us do something stupid and try to crack the machine. That sure would be a good way to pay them back for their "generosity"...
For the love of $DEITY, try to behave...
If you can't figure out how to mail me, don't.
For linux tips: http://www.linuxtipsblog.com
you my friend, are different...if you troll, it is most likely funny, I enjoy that, it breaks the dullness of the world. What I don't like are trolls that go off on some sort of tantrum like a kid that was told he/she couln't have ice cream. The ones that argue back and forth with each other, completely off topic, screaming nothing but obscenities at each other, taking up 4+ pages of browser space.
I, like a lot of people, use this site for information, news, research, or whatever, not to come and read some person that is trying to blame someone else for something that didn't go right in their life...so what, that's life, inconveniences happend and sometimes people have to grow up and accept them.
And, to the AC that wrote the long statement to Rob at the top, we don't all feel that way. When you assume, you make yourself look dumb and you make the community look dumb...if you have something prudent and important to say, at least have the guts to post it non-AC. AC is nothing but a method of hiding, because you're either scared or unsure whether you are true.
Sure, anonymitity is a good thing, but when it is something like this, it accomplishes nothing.
I'll tell you what is about to happen though, someone will come along and read this comment and not agree with me, they will reply to me and probably type a lot of obscenities at me in CAPS, thus starting what I wish to not start. If it does, I cannot blame anyone for myself, for I am a hypocrit(sp?) if it happens. Just remember, that some of us really enjoy the articles and the news; that is why it is called "Slashdot: news for nerds. stuff that matters".
Um, so who is the person running a distributedn.et client?
Debian is an excellent distro, it works great and has a devoted following (I prefer SuSE though, but I have Debian on a 486 just to play with it). If the software does what you want, and the price is right, you should get it. Personally, I don't care what his personal ideologies are, I don't care that he's an admitted socialist. That's his right. If it disturbs you, you have the same right not to do business with his. While I may not agree with his philosophy, I will defend his right to choose and voice it.
Debian does offer a bit of bloat, but it's still optional what you want to install. BSD also offers great options, but I prefer a bit more of the bloat. To be honest, it's just because I'm too damn lazy to configure a lot of the mundane items manually. They're offering different options... something even the most devoted socialist-phobic should agree is good for everyone -- choice! I personally enjoy the options available in Linux, it's a far cry from Micro$oft's idea that what's good for Bill is what's good for you.
Boycott Debian if you think it's important. I don't think you'll get too much support, though.
"First things first, but not necessarily in that order."
- Doctor Who
no shit, almost everybody should DIE!!!!!!!
Incidentally, I've wondered . . . when you sign up for this thing, do you get a permanent account, or is it something where it lasts like two weeks and then you have to sign up again?
It sure would be useful for test-building stuff, at least before SourceForge gets them Alphas . . .
iSKUNK!
Well, if the sell-out aspect bothers you that much, go check out Barrapunto, a Slashdot clone. They're lame enough that you'll never have to worry about commercial interest. Or any interest. I'm sure they could use a few good trolls.
Richard Stallman started this whole open thing. Just because you disagree with his politics doesn't mean you have to slam Debian because it is pure GNU. If you have no socialist tendancies, and are strictly capitalist in everything of your nature, go away and buy something from Microsoft and don't ever go NEAR Linux! It's a capitalist's nightmare! Sure, there are companies profiting from it, but capitalists will capitalize on anything. I'm sure that RedHat, with their market share, would LOVE to monopolize the market. It's the nature of the beast.
Hey, I'm kinda getting on a roll here.
What's the problem? It's really disgusting how, in spite of the fact that a large segment of the community has very serious and valid reservations about Stallman's leadership, nevertheless their voices are essentially banned on Slashdot.
I don't know the guy any more than I know you. What have you given OSS?
The GPL is viral. It restricts freedom. This is not only a justifiable view (and IMHO correct), but a rather common one.
Yes, GPL is viral. A creates OSS software, B adds to it; it remains OSS. C adds to that, it's still OSS. That's a Good Thing.
In what way CAN it restrict freedom? It restricts your freedom to rip off someone else's source and claim it as your own. Have you *READ* www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html?
What IS IT that you want? Other people to write software for you to claim your own?
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
And completely disrespectful to the Spanish-speaking population of the world.
I invite you to lick my balls.
Enough of this bullshit. Boycott Debian until they come to heel and learn to respect the community.
Hmm.. Isn't the word community derived from the same root as communism?
Hey, is it me, or can you not connect to the outside world? its like they have a fiter or somethin.. it blows..
--Sean
--Sean
I just searched Slashdot for "RMS interviw" and "Stallman interview". There are stories about three. Two of those links are dead, and the third is a different interview. I tried briefly on Google but the first twenty matches didn't pan out, so to hell with it. Find it yourself if you're interested. Better yet, email RMS and ask him if he said that. Asshole though he may be, he's honest in his way and I suspect he'll tell you whatever you need to know.
The interview took place at a Linux convention in the Far East, it might have been Singapore. Stallman was taken to a factory where illegal copies of shrink-wrapped software were made. He said it was a good thing, because they were undermining commercial software. He seemed to forget for a moment the free-speech/free-beer dichotomy that he loves to talk about so much.
If you're so new to Slashdot that you didn't see it the first time around, there's not a lot I can do for you.
I don't mean this as flame bait (despite what my handle implies), but I did find a url to an interview with RMS which pretty much advocates piracy (although he doesn't really call it that).
Just FYI, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything here.
--
--
Point?   None.   Cob!
> Enough of this bullshit. Boycott Debian until they come to heel and learn to respect the
> community. Boycott Stallman and the FSF until they do the same.
Tell you what, you go ahead and get all the people to boycott that you can, and the rest of us will go back to getting our work done.
Hmm.. Isn't the word community derived from the same root as communism?
No, "communism" comes from Russian, "community" from Latin.
hehe, i like people with a sense of humor :)
Compaq Rape Forum.
Let's get together on this one and make our presence felt.
Becausse "communism" comes from the same root as "community", and for the same reason (check the OED) -- and Communism the economic theory comes from Germany.
Duh.
I heard that on Alpha Linux supports only 1 gig of RAM because of something to do with PCI cards. If you put more then 1 gig of RAM in an Alpha box running Linux, the 32 bit PCI cards will stop working. Has this been fixed or what? What's the memory limit now? Is it the full 64 bit memory space?
Oh, also does anybody know when Debian 2.2 will be released? I'm itching to install this baby. In fact I actually did install it on one box and I like what I see so far. So how long till the release?
___
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Why else would he have posted it?
Cocksucker.
This was ontopic, insightful, informative, and especially funny. Moderate it back up before I have to kick some serious ass.
My name is James Carl White of Springfield New Mexico and I was raped by Compaq. Because of the guilt I am feeling, I have decided to post anonymously. I am glad that someone is finally listening! When I reported the crime of violence commited against my rear by the customer service department at Compaq, the dispatcher hung up on me and said if I made any more prank calls to 911 they would have me jailed! If enough of us speak out, people will start to listen! Don't be afraid to admit it if this happened to you. Speak! It wasn't your fault. Not only will you prevent this from happening to someone else but justice will and must be served!
www.compaqsucks.com
real link.
I really got a kick out of that post
Sorry, bucko, but BSD has sold out, big time. Did you miss the big BSD merger story? Did you bother to read it? Did you know that FreeBSD is not going to be "free" anymore? When BSD/OS and FreeBSD collided, the stronger one, BSD/OS, survived. FreeBSD will be relegated to the same ranks as it's ancient ancestor, 4.4BSD. Sure, it leaves Net- and OpenBSD, but who the hell uses those? Theo theRaat is even more of a control freak than RMS, and NetBSD only runs on 1985-era workstations. Looks like BSD isn't so strong after all. Hell, they still haven't upgraded the C compiler to ANSI compliance and it's the year 2000! While I'm sure K&R suits bigots like yourself just fine (the small language fits cleanly in your small mind), the rest of us prefer superior langauges, like C++. Linux is going purely object-oriented, while BSD remains in the dust. Good luck running GNOME on BSD: it lacks the OO features needed to run such applications. As for modern software, try running WordPerfect or Delphi on "Free"BSD. What's that? You can't? How typical.
Yeah, freed me right into the clutches of Walnut Creek/BSDI. How cute. Another clueless BSD troll.
For this heresy, I condemn thee to read ESR essays until sundown.
Remember: Chairman Torvalds loves you.
all he sez is that copying should not be called piracy. which is true - copying free software doesnt mean you are pirating it. he also says copying proprietary software is useless since youre still locked into the binary only and the only benefit is that you dont give money to the author. which is also true..anything wrong with those statements ?
we have a right to rape other people and a right for others to rape us you bastard GNU zealot. thats what BSD gives us! BSD rules! GNU sucks!
ds20. make me laugh. that's like the crappiest alpha there is. thats like me giving a panhandler a penny.
compaq is the enemy (i'm typing on a compaq keyboard, using a compaq mouse, on a compaq deskpro p2 box, with sessions open to two different alphas (both better than ds20, i don't have a session to that server open right now) using m$ft software all around (except vms).
compaq is the biggest computer company in the world (yes, bigger than 'big blue'), they make me CRINGE!!!
but then, i'm at work right now so it can't be all that bad...
"..Constructive critizism is always welcome however."
better link: www.compaqvictims.org/
If you don't like Debian's distro, don't use it.
But if you don't approve of RMS's ideology, and refuse to use any of his SW, then that's GNU/* out for you. I don't know what you use alongside your kernel, I use GNU/tar, GNU/ls, GNU/etc.
I have the option of using commerical or other non-GNU OSS software. But I don't know of anyone who has bothered to write ls with a GPL...
The difference between what BG3rd and RMS think are good for you are: BG: Whatever I spew is good for you RMS: Whatever is free is good for you Personally, I'm using RedHat with GNU tools.
If you're pro-capitalism (and why not? My Dad is), then use a capitalist OS - incl. M$, RedHat, others. Personally, I'm a techie and somewhat socialist. Linux (Remember, it's a KERNEL, not an OS, UTILS and APPS) suits me fine.
It depends on what you stand for. But I can't see what you stand for which RMS prohibits, unless it's ripping off GNU code.
Steve.
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
Slava tavarisha Stalmana!
you beat me to it! :)
by the way, shiteater, get a new fucking link. that one's getting old.
Dictionary.com: [Middle English communite, citizenry, from Old French from Latin commnits, fellowship, from commnis, common; see common.]
Dictionary.com: communism \Com"mu*nism\, n. [F. communisme, fr. commun common.]
So, same word.
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
I'm in serious danger of repeating myself here, and I know that more and more people are joining the Linux revolution, with differing levels of historical knowledge, but there's no need to parade that ignorance in front of the whole world.
Don't patronize me. I've been part of this Open Source revolution since it started 5 years ago. How about you?
If you don't like Debian's distro, don't use it.
But if you don't approve of RMS's ideology, and refuse to use any of his SW, then that's GNU/* out for you. I don't know what you use alongside your kernel, I use GNU/tar, GNU/ls, GNU/etc.
And how many did RMS write himself? None? I thought so. I use them because I *paid* Red Hat for them. You see, in a market economy that's how things work. Clever, no?
I have the option of using commerical or other non-GNU OSS software. But I don't know of anyone who has bothered to write ls with a GPL...
You seem to have ignored the fact that the BSD utilities predate GNU by *years* AND they're more free. You can use them without bying into Stallman's "Slavery is Freedom" (ie, the GPV) philosophy.
The difference between what BG3rd and RMS think are good for you are: BG: Whatever I spew is good for you RMS: Whatever is free is good for you
You mean: "RMS: Whatever I say is free is good for you" BSD is free, but he regularly attacks it, its users and its developers. Why? I don't know. Jealousy, most likely.
Personally, I'm using RedHat with GNU tools.
If you're pro-capitalism (and why not? My Dad is), then use a capitalist OS - incl. M$, RedHat,
That's what I do. That's why I can make money. I can't do that with Deviant GNU/Linux because they make you sign away your code to RMS or put it under his license. And you can't make money doing that.
others. Personally, I'm a techie and somewhat socialist. Linux (Remember, it's a KERNEL, not an OS, UTILS and APPS) suits me fine.
Well, at least you come out and announce it. It's obvious that Linux, especially Debian, appeals to Marxists, especially the younger ones who, like yourself, don't have to work for a living. It gives you the feeling of being in some "revolution" without any work. Must be fun being so naive.
It depends on what you stand for. But I can't see what you stand for which RMS prohibits, unless it's ripping off GNU code.
*I* stand for making a decent living. RMS opposes that because he's been locked up in any ivory tower for so long. The man lives in his office for chrissakes. No normal person does that, because normal people have homes and bills to pay. I can't live like Stallman because I have responsibilities, something Mr. prolonged-childhood can ignore from his fancy Cambridge office.
Maybe some day when you have to work, you'll understand. But you seem to be headed the RMS route of living in a terminal room and sleeping in your shoes. Socialism is dead, and for good reason. I hope that some day you will recognize that fact and catch up with modern society.
I get what I deserve for responding to a troll (or a retarded chimpanzee, if you're serious, though there's about a 70% chance that you are a troll), but I'm bored and I just felt like waxing pedantic. Bear with me, please.
Anyhow, I was sort of referring to the fact that Marx was, uhh . . . HE WAS GERMAN, YOU MORON.
Oooookay?
Communism (capital 'C'), in the formal sense of Marxist dialectical materialism, was invented by none other than Karl Marx -- hence the name "Marxism"! Clever, innit? Heh heh. More primitive and loosely-defined forms of communism (small 'c') were around before then, but none originated in Russia.
My so-called "OED", as you so delicately put it, is in full agreement on this issue. As John O'Hara said, "I do not consult dictionaries. Dictionaries consult me." O'Hara was humble like that. Hell, so am I! As the "OED" says, on page 298 of my compact edition (p 580 of the appropriate volume), the word is derived from the French, first seeing the light of day as "communisme".
The general (small 'c') sense: First reference in the OED is 1840, by an Englishman reminiscing in 1848 about meeting "disciples of Baboeuf" in Paris. The second reference in the OED is 1843 and the third is 1844, both being titles of English works. The word "Communism" was certainly used by the Paris Commune of 1848 (hence, again, the name). The last reference given for the general sense is 1890, the sense having been demonstrated. Russia is never mentioned.
The specific (cap 'C' sense): First reference, 1850, in the title of Marx & Engels's Manifesto of German Communist Party.
Quod erat demonstrandum, baby. Ha.
The English "community" (next page in the big OED, same page in the compact) is from the Old French com(m)uneté, com(m)unité. So they don't have the same immediate root, but they are absolutely first cousins.
Be it known that the OED only trades in print references, which are generally preceded by spoken usage. Exceptions include literary coinages, for example those of Shakespeare.
please explain how we get "communism" from the German language.
As far as that goes, please explain how we might get a blatantly Latinate word from a Slavic language like Russian.
Only a crypto-fascist Linuxhead and Stallmanist like you -- or a right-out-in-front fascist from Microsoft -- would advocate the irrational uselessness that is "Object"-"Oriented" "Programming" -- which is in fact none of the three!
OOP is a sick joke. Don't make me laugh. No useful software has ever been written with it. Name one exception. ONE exception.
OOP is a sick joke. Don't make me laugh. No useful software has ever been written with it. Name one exception. ONE exception.
public class FooBar {
public FooBar() throws ZealotException {
throw new ZealotException();
}
}
public class ZealotException extends Exception {
public ZealotException() {
super( "Zealot on the loose!" );
}
public ZealotException( Object o ) {
super( o.toString );
}
}
Sorry, I screwed up.
This line:
super( o.toString );
Should be:
super( o.toString() );
Thank you.
Wow.... he got his name right :)
Exceptions are a horribly inelegant way to do what structured programmers do much more gracefully by simply crapping out and setting errno.
Exception handling increases compiled code size by roughly 57% with GCC, and almost as much with commercial compilers. It was invented by Seagate, did you know that? Yes, they forced it into the C++ standard, and then Sun picked it up for Java because they sell hard disks, too.
Sucker.
What he actually says is:
RMS: First, the meaning of the word "free". This is "jiyuu" in Japanese, and it doesn't refer to money.
Also, people have lots of assumptions that they unconsciously make. Some people assume everyone is either a Capitalist or a Communist. Since I'm against proprietary software, they think I must be communist. Or people assume I'm jealous of people making a lot of money from software. People are so used to thinking that the important issue is money, it is hard to understand someone with a different priority.
I've never opposed making money, and I'm not against selling copies of software. I'm opposed to taking away users' freedom. That's the issue.
I think that says it all.
Steve.
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
Exceptions are a horribly inelegant way to do what structured programmers do much more gracefully by simply crapping out and setting errno.
So says you. *Real programmers* use ON ERROR GOTO. Structured programming is for crippled minds, as evidenced by your Djikstra-influenced comment title. You've obviously bought into his cult of personality. Get a real job and see how long that lasts.
no text
Sorry, but I don't find any piracy advocating going on here.
Steve.
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
Um... read the MOTD when you log in...
<ROUGH APPROXIMATION>
Telnet: in only
FTP: in only
x|x is a protocol: none
...
Some message about how its for developers, not a ISP shell account.
</ROUGH APPROXIMATION>
I don't know whether or not your programs can get out or not...
Heh!
I don't need a job, I use BSD.
If you're so damn slick at detecting trolls . . . how come you posted "YHBT" in response to one?
x86 sucks. z80 rules. Any questions?
I guess rob's gonna implement his anti-spam filter now to eliminate this guy, this post should be so highly compressable that it will immediately set off the filter. Perhaps this is a test by Rob to see if his filter works so he can adjust the settings?
Why do I bother responding to this? Oh well, here goes anyway.
"Well, they're both basically Red Hat rip-offs, so there can't be that much difference.
Bzzzt. This is so blatantly wrong, why do I try to respond? If they were all 'Red Hat' ripoffs, they'd probably do like Mandrake, repackaging RedHat with some improvements. Instead, they are both distros from sratch with their own aims.
"Well, maybe you should care. Now me for example, I have a family to clothe and feed. I need to make money. Do I:
A) Attempt to use an operating system advocated by a man who wants nothing less than the abolition of capital?
-or-
B) Find some other way to make a living?"
So you're saying that just because you don't agree with his ideals, you are steadfastly against anything he recommends? So what if he started advocating the use of here. Would you have a sudden change of heart? Just because his personal final goals aren't what you have in mind is no reason to write him off. Mainly because he doesn't lead the world of OSS. If he wanted everyone to do something blatantly back asswards, it wouldn't happen. He's a leader because people think he has good intent, such as the intention of removing IP.
"The choice is pretty obvious. Debian is bad news no matter what way you look at it. They even have a special "non-free" designation for programs which go against their idealogical bent! Even though these programs might be superior technically, they are ignored in the base system in favor of code which is more politically orthodox (read: socialist and Stallmanist)"
Actually, non-free is there to avoid legal headaches over anything else. And it's not like your license of choice (BSD) isn't in the non-free category. Licenses that restrict the distribution of binaries and code go in there. As they should.
"Just as I will defend my right to make a decent living without the interruptions of aging hippie megalomaniacs."
You have every right to live how you choose, this doesn't though, include the right to make slanderous statements among other things. Remember the tagline to all those rights.. They're called responsibilities.
"BSD is not only technically superior, but also has a license that Stallman hates, merely because it allows you take make money with code developed on it, something the Debian people don't like."
Neither license has any 'technical' superiority over the other. You can't benchmark them. You can't say one performs better then the other. What the BSD license is, is a license that frees code to be used in any situation at all. Including commercial software. What the GPL is, is a license that takes away some rights on code to ensure that the code remains in the domain of the free. This is not against capitalism in the least. It ensures the code remains where the author wants it to be. Is this so bad?
Also, there's nothing in the GPL that stops people from making money. What do you call Red Hat? Or starups like Helix Code? Today there are many people making money with the GPL and the LGPL. Not to mention other Open Souce licenses.
"Like I said above, your "options" are limited to programs which conform with the Debian ideal of new-agish technosocialism. If that's your idea of "choice", I can't say much for you."
No, your choices are limited to whatever someone VOLUNTEERS to package for you. They are also limited to a lesser extent by the freedom of the code behind the program being packaged. If you're not interested in the code, you're not really in the right place using OSS. And if you can define thousands of packages as a 'lack of choice' then I'd like some of what you're smoking.
"Again, it's no worse than Debian's idea that what's good for Richard is good for you. Debian developers, for example, fought the inclusion of X11 tooth and nail because Stallman prefers text mode. The bloody fool probably never leaves Emacs anyway. And you trust him to decide what's best for you?"
Pardon me? Again, please let me in on what you're smoking. I'd like to be in a state where I believed Debian was without X11. Because this message is being written from inside Mozilla M14, under XFree 3.3.6. All installed with the magic of Debian.
The sheer blatant lack of facts in your post leads me to continue believing you're simply a troll. Debian isn't perfect. But what is? Whatever narcotic you're on it seems.
The womb of UNIX. You are not worthy.
And Ada Lovelace taught me to program on fucking paper rolls.
Even if she does have shitty, pedantic language named after her, we have to give her some respect.
"BSD is not only technically superior, but also has a license that Stallman hates,
Neither license has any 'technical' superiority over the other. You can't benchmark them. You can't say one performs better then the other.
"BSD is . . . technically superior . . . also has a license . .
He stated, very clearly in plain English, that BSD is technically superior to Linux. Then he started talking about the license in a following clause.
Sounds like you've got some kind of a very grievous learning disability there, son. Have you considered renting a brain?
Of course, your subnormal mentality is only typical of Linux "users", most of whom are unemployable and many homeless.
Again, please let me in on what you're smoking. I'd like to be in a state where I believed Debian was without X11.
Again, you're desperately slow. ". . . fought tooth and nail against the inclusion of X11 . .
The sheer blatant lack of facts in your post leads me to continue believing you're simply a troll.
The sheer overabundance of objectively verifiable facts in his post leads me to believe that he is a reasonable, sensible, and well-informed individual. You, on the other hand, are clearly an anthropoid ape with knuckle-calluses the size of kneepads.
You are also a blatant pro-Linux, anti-BSD propagandist. You will be dealt with in due time.
Actually, I thought that picture was kinda funny. Some people just have wayyyyyyyy too much time on their hands.
Did you pick the name ArchieBunker because you always spout off contrary opinions where they're not wanted just to get attention, or is it just a coincidence?
And Jackie Chan prefers to keep other things in his hands, apparently.
Is that so wrong?
They can't. Also, any programs that listen on a port can't be reached from outside.
Try my abacus, if you're programmer enough to dare.
Still, you do get points for learning programming from Linda Lovelace.
Did you pick the name ArchieBunker because you always spout off contrary opinions where they're not wanted just to get attention, or is it just a coincidence?
Actually, he just likes the "Archie" comic strips, and Bunker is his first name. Hee hee...America's most typical teenager.
And that Veronica, I bet she put out!
BSD is just another UNIX-like OS. BSD was created in the Peoples Repblic of Berkeley. Yup, no socialists there.
Yup. In fact, no socialists there at all.
Not true. He's saying that illegal software copying, while not immoral, is not a good idea in general (since you can't easily modify it and learn from it etc.) and that it is better to create free software instead.
Go away, troll.
Oh, that's not hair, that's the Alan Cox plate.
For the last freakin time whether you are for Open Source or not doesn't necessarily have a damn thing to do with whether or not you are a capitalist or a socialist or a libertarian or whatever.
Just because you don't understand markets and can type words like monopoly and make empty accusations, don't assume that your assertions actually make any sense much less that they are accurate. There is a difference between striving to be the best and striving to control. But perhaps this is too deep for you.
Sometimes I wonder if human beings are actually intelligent at all.
My post attempted to avoid any patronisation. But if you think OSS started in '95, you're wrong. That's when you joined it. Personally, I started using OSS around that time, since you ask (specifically 92/3). But it was going since way before then. I didn't create it. I never said that I did.
I, too, *PAID* RedHat for my 5.1 CD. But not for the code that's on it; I paid them (I think about UKP30) for the CD media + postage; that seems reasonable. Plus they added their work on rpm, etc. to that. For free. It also included, par example, gcc, written largely by RMS.
What's the issue? You've paid RH for some SW. You want to know what lines were written by RMS? I personally don't care *who* wrote what; it's free (as in speech) and it works. RMS is a great spokesperson for OSS. (Personally I'm not too keen on ESR
I don't see how BSD is more free than GNU; maybe you can explain?
I, too, if I chose, could make money from OSS. I never called myself a Marxist, though you applied that label to me. As it happens, I work on behalf of (DISCL: Not directly for) Sun Microsystems, a Capitalist
I have a question for you:
You seem to assume (old-world) that it's capitalism vs. socialism. I believe that OSS and the Net in general defies that simplicity. I also make a (pretty) decent living. I'm getting married in August and will have a wife and (eventually) family to support. I'm no great fan of a money-centric society, but I have to live in it. Like you, I have responsiblities.
I find the word "normal" to be very dangerous. It's the kind of emotive word most people use to mean "people like me" - I dread a world of NORMAL PEOPLE.
This is the C21st. A new order comes. It's not capitalism, socialism, nor nettism. It's just different. People incl. RMS, ESR and others have failed, so far, to define it. But I like it and I use it because it works for me. If "Modern Society" is M$, then Modern Society is not for me. If the future lies in OSS, I'm with it.
So in summary, you accuse me of being a naive Marxist. I'm neither. I want the best for my customers, who include Major financials, Mils (unfortunately), and .COMs. I believe that for me, and for certain customer requirements, OSS is the current best answer. Where it's valid, I say so. Where it's not, the same.
Balance is the key.
(This is getting somewhat off-topic from the original message posted here, but seems to be on-topic for the discussion sparked by this article.)
This response isn't perfect, but I'd like a response so I can talk to you...
Steve.
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
Sometimes I wonder if human beings are actually intelligent at all.
I just stopped wondering.
Booorrrrriiinnnnggggg . . . fucking Moonies . . .
For the last freakin time whether you are for Open Source or not doesn't necessarily have a damn thing to do with whether or not you are a capitalist or a socialist or a libertarian or whatever.
It's not whether you are for or against, but about which projects you are for or against.
BSD has a license which encourages commercial use.
Linux uses the GPL, which inhibits the proprietary IP needed for a technology-based commercial use.
Therefore:
BSD attracts users who are smart enough to make money. We call these people "capitalists".
Linux attracts people who are under the illusion that helping each other is somehow a good thing. We call them "socialists"
Now BSD is growing by leaps and bounds, as anyone who reads the mailing lists or newsgroups will tell you. Linux, on the other hand, is cooling off because coporations (rightly) see BSD as a more viable alternative.
Just because you don't understand markets and can type words like monopoly and make empty accusations, don't assume that your assertions actually make any sense much less that they are accurate.
Truer words have never been spoken.
Sometimes I wonder if human beings are actually intelligent at all.
Well Slashdot, being a primarily Linux-oriented site, will probably give you a bad impression of the rest of us. Just ignore the zealots and stick witht he facts.
I'm registered and I like playing around with these things. If you are trying to find out some new changes to the kernel, or see how a compiler has improved, this is great. But what about GUI things? It would be kind of cool to have a method to be able to do something graphical, maybe kind of like VNC for MS stuff. Just a thought...
How YOU feel, you mean. Rob Malda needs to know how _you_ feel. I'd suggest emailing him.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
It also included, par example, gcc, written largely by RMS.
.10 many years back, but how many of the later versions have come from him? What about support for Pascal, Ada, CHILL, Fortran, etc? Did he write those, too?
... socialist". Marxism is socialism. What is there to explain? You're caught in your own lies.
"Written largely by RMS"? Give me a break! He may have released a buggy version
RMS is fond of overestimating his own importance. He does no practical work anymore, mainly because he has been left so far behind the technological cutting edge by sticking with Unix. He couldn't handle a real job if he tried.
What's the issue? You've paid RH for some SW.
Exactly, and as a result, I get to use it as I see fit, something that Debian and GNU seek to deny me. What's so hard to understand about that? I can redistribute code I made under RedHat because I paid for it. I can't do that with Debian because they made it illegal. I don't know how they handle it in England, but as far as I'm concerned you've been going downhill since Thatcher left.
You want to know what lines were written by RMS? I personally don't care *who* wrote what; it's free (as in speech) and it works. RMS is a
It occasionally works, you mean. While it's thrilling that you can parrot party lines about "free as in speech", you seem to ignore that freedom of speech is restricted in many ways, especially in Europe of all places.
great spokesperson for OSS. (Personally I'm not too keen on ESR
ESR bathes frequently and has access to a razor. RMS does neither. Please explain your choice in detail.
I don't see how BSD is more free than GNU; maybe you can explain?
Simple, anyone can do whatever they want with BSD: make it proprietary, sell it, hack it, trade it, etc. You can't make Linux proprietary. FSF doublespeak calls this "freedom", but any thinking person sees that this is a complete lie. Try redistributing RedHat without consent from the "community". LinuxOne did, and look what sort of abuse they've taken. Do you consider that freedom? If so, you're a very sick man.
I, too, if I chose, could make money from OSS.
BSD maybe, but not Debian.
I never called myself a Marxist, though you applied that label to me.
"Personally, I'm a
You seem to assume (old-world) that it's capitalism vs. socialism. I believe that OSS and the Net in general defies that simplicity.
Perhaps if you simplify it in your own mind. I still have to make money, and Stallman doesn't want me to. That is pretty black-and-white, don't you think?
I find the word "normal" to be very dangerous. It's the kind of emotive word most people use to mean "people like me" - I dread a world of NORMAL PEOPLE.
Spoken like a true deviant. Perhaps your anti-social tendencies are betraying you? Are people in mental hospitals simply "being themselves"? Is schizophrenia normal? How about homocidal tendencies? Seems like a dangerous idea to me.
This is the C21st. A new order comes. It's not
Ah yes, the fabled "new [world] order". Sorry, but reality demands that you come back.
"odern Society" is M$, then Modern Society is not for me. If the future lies in OSS, I'm with it.
If "modern society" is with Debian and GNU, then you'll be broke at your current rate. Few years on the dole'll fix you right up, "mate".
The world is not based on propaganda from GNU, ESR, or the communist party. There are realities which have to be met, which certain people are attempting to keep us from meeting. RMS, for whatever reason, is anti-capitalist and anti-society. I however, need money (capital), and I live in society. It's nice to have dreams of some sort of eglitarian, libertaritan anarchy, but it will never happen. RMS has tried, and failed.
Sorry, it's how "we" feel. That's an objective truth, which you can't deny.
Yup, it says it right there :-] (I didn't see anything about that the last time I was there, so I didn't bother checking this time)
So it's thirty days. I sure hope they don't mind, um, repeat customers <g>
iSKUNK!
(a) That's my line, fuckwad.
(b) That guy was trolling too, so it's not applicable at all, cocksucker.
Way to contradict yourself. Firstly you claim that you are a customer and deserve all of the perks of a customer.
Then you complain beacuse you get treated like a customer and Rob has some of the perks (such as revenue from ads) that a supplier of a service gets.
What is it? Do you want to be a customer or do you want slashdot to be a non-commercial site? Basically the fact that you want both shows how clueless you are to how the world works.
If you don't like slashdot and how it's run take the source and start your own site.
(Anonymous to protect Karma - sstrick)
That said, I have always wondered about Compaq's commitment to the Alpha and to Linux. This goes back to when Compaq bought DEC. Did they do this for DEC's established base of user support licences (to me this would be relatively short sighted) or was it to get the Alpha? /. had a discussion when this takeover happened and the speculation on this issue was obviously mixed.
Is Compaq committed to Linux or is this merely an attempt to recoup their losses? What is the future of the Alpha? Will Transmeta make the Alpha old news?
Sorry if these questions are mundane but I not an expert on these subjects. However, I am interested in learning more about this and to really figure out if the Alpha has a future.
We've been using Debian potato on our servers for months now with no problems (they broke X forwarding for a day or so this week, but that's not really horrible). I definitely don't use slink on anything anymore...potato has been done as far as I'm concerned.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
what good is a shell if i cant ping -f -s 4096 www.slashdot.org ?
how about www.DoS-slashdot.org ? any takers ?
I don't think SourceForge will eventually use Alpha.
Remember SourceForge is sponsored by VA Linux, a company which main investor is Intel. They've lately become "its master voice" regarding CPU policy.
But again, I might be wrong.
Fuck you. You're just pissed 'cause your side is loosing, fucker. Linux is the mainstream and BSD is hereby invited to suck me. ESR just fucking rocks. Get the fuck off my Slashdot you dying obsolete capitalist bitch.
Erhm, GNU has been around for about 15 years. And RMS was writing free software for about another 5 years before that. So it's been around for a bit more than 5 years.
And how many did RMS write himself? None? I thought so. I use them because I *paid* Red Hat for them. You see, in a market economy that's how things work. Clever, no?
Where did you get the idea that red hat wrote the GNU tools?? The GNU shell, fileutils, and textutils were written long before redhat, possibly by RMS himself, although I don't know who specifically at FSF wrote them.
You seem to have ignored the fact that the BSD utilities predate GNU by *years* AND they're more free. You can use them without bying into Stallman's "Slavery is Freedom" (ie, the GPV) philosophy.
No, the BSDs used GNU fileutils and textutils until very recently (98 or 99).
"RMS: Whatever I say is free is good for you" BSD is free, but he regularly attacks it, its users and its developers. Why? I don't know. Jealousy, most likely.
RMS:
Not exactly fightin words.
That's what I do. That's why I can make money. I can't do that with Deviant GNU/Linux because they make you sign away your code to RMS or put it under his license. And you can't make money doing that.
You realize, of course, that RMS gives you way more freedom than anything you buy from microsoft. All that's really going on here is that RMS is saying he dosen't want you to take his code and resell it without the code. The BSD ppl are saying they don't care what you do with it. And the proprietary developers are saying they don't want you doing anything with it unless you pay them, and they don't want you changing anything unless you pay them a lot of money.
I find your arguments to be rather hypocritical, since obviously you are interested in creating proprietary software. So isn't your argument much like Microsoft calling Red Hat proprietary? :o
Thou shalt not read the words of the fake prophet! Our only hope for salvation can be found in the arms of our loving lord, RMS !!!
:)
Regards,
Denny
# Using Linux in the UK? Check out Linux UK
Police State UK - news and
No SSH?!!? Oh well, better not be too picky.
And just who are "we"??? I am asking this for I know that I don't feel the same way as you do, and therefor I'm not part of "we", so who are "we"??
They'll should see a positive return for letting their creative people do some interesting things with their own systems, instead of just boot licking the same ol' same ol' boring Monopolsoft boots.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
We all know how well Linux performs on mid range to low end hardware. (I run 2.2 on mid range Dell Poweredges and a am very pleased with its performance.)
;-) )
However, various recent benchmarks and editorials have pointed out Linux'es problems when it comes to perfroming well on high end servers. If memory serves me correct, this was mainly due to the SMP support in the 2.2 kernel and the TCP/IP stack, along with other problems with device drivers. (eg. Ethernet Card). It was my understanding that the kernel SMP support was being re-written for 2.4 to address some of the shortcomings and to help performance in general on high end machines.
So my question is, how much actually has been done in the 2.3/2.4 tree to address these performance issues? (Feel free to correct me if anything I have said here is wrong - but then you would probably do that anyway
Thanks for your time!
I normally read /. at with my filters set to '2 and above' so as to avoid this sort of flame fest, but this one attracted my attention and I backtracked it.
Some observations: it's notable that the people (or possibly just one person) attacking RMS here doesn't choose to reveal [his|her] identity.
Secondly, there's some extremely sloppy thinking going on. For example, the assertion that just because you paid for RedHat, anything you develop under RedHat you can automatically sell on. You can't. The C compiler RedHat distribute is the Gnu C compiler; the standard libraries RedHat distribute are the GNU libraries. If you use those tools, and if you believe software licences have any validity at all, you must abide by their licences. RedHat cannot issue those tools to you under any different licence than the GPL, and don't try.
Then there is the assertion that RMS, the Free Software Foundation, and Debian want to stop you making money out of software. This is just simply obviously untrue. RMS makes his living out of software; so did the guys at Cygnus who have done so much of the maintenance of the GNU toolkit over the past several years. What RMS wants to persuade you not to do is make money out of hiding the source of software, restricting the freedom of users of software.
Finally, there is the assertion that Marxism is the same as socialism, and that both are the same as standing up for the right to freedom of speach. Anyone who can believe this is either so politically naiive, or so indoctrinated, that their other opinions are invalidated.
Face it: RMS, for all his querkiness and his occasional displays of ego, is necessarily one of our heroes. Without him, there would be no GNU toolset; without the GNU toolset, there could be no Linux. There's no sense in the sort of argument you see frequently between supporters of different free software/open source heroes. All of them - RMS, ESR, Linus, Alan Cox, even Larry Wall - have contributed hugely to making the movement we find ourselves in. All of them are human and have their querks, but we all owe them all a huge debt of gratitude, and this sort of anonymous attack is simply childish and undignified.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Please consider revealing your identity. I'd simply love to nominate you for a net.kook award. And do tell if commander Spock has a beard in your reality.
Just to fill you in: in this reality the very definition of "Open Source" is based on the DFSG, the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which were written in mid-1997.
I have a Deskpro 6000 (6300MMX) and I am running Debian Potato on it.
The Thunderlan support works fine, and the Matrox Millennium II works nicely in X at 1152x864x32bpp.
Potato was easier to install than Redhat. I was having a lot of Anaconda (Python) errors in RH's install script, but with 5 floppies from Debian (rescue, root, and the 3 drivers disks), I was able to download the 13 meg base install over the net in record time and had the machine up and running in no time!
F.
[with the GPL] you'd need to get all the contributor's permissions before you can sell the end product.
That's not even close to being accurate, unless you're talking about closing the source. With the GPL, anybody can do anything at all with it, sell it or change it or whatever, as long as they don't redistribute (or works derivative thereof) it without providing the source.
That's all it is.
Corps are wary of the GPL simply because most of them prefer to keep the source to themselves.
...and...raped by Customer Service? I guess that's pretty appropriate for Hump Day, dontcha think?
Bob Malda's the wrong "Bob!"
--------------Rev. C.C.Chips---------------- For the real truth, visit
Alphas nice systems and I hope this helps the Debian GNU/Linux Alpha port! It's been needing help lately...
rbf aka pulsar
Oh no! A SOCIALIST! Run away, screaming in terror! Hey! I know, I'll really scare the hell out of the poor American! I'm a socialist too!!!! So are many others! And we like to laugh at silly people who think that socialism is evil!
Intolerant people should be shot.