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1.4-1.6 GHz Alphas
maniack writes, "Looks like the Alpha is striking back at AMD and Intel after a quiet period. Eetimes.com has a story on new Alpha processors from 1.4-1.6 GHz being available by the end of the year despite rumors of Samsung pulling out of the processor market. Keep in mind that this is a 64 bit processor, so there will be a lot of competition in the that arena. " At this point, much of it is still conjecture, but it's worth keeping an eye on.
when will we see some?
I don't even install *beta* software on production systems!
We've been running 1+ GHz Alpha chips in the lab for a while now. API was showing one last August at LinuxWorld in San Hoser.
I've got a system in my lab in Nashua, NH that has four of these chips and 32GB of RAM.
Cool stuff. Very cool stuff.
Gotta give Compaq credit for keeping the Alpha alive. Many people thought the Alpha would fade from existence when Compaq acquired DEC, but it looks like its as strong as ever.
As some have probably already stated, the Alpha21264 series have absolutely mindblowing FPUs, with the 433MHz getting a spec_FP95 of 47 or thereabouts. I think even the fastest desktop CPUs out there are in the low-mid 20s.
Something as massive as a 1.xGHz CPU would be a godsend for ISPs, ASPs, render farms, etc who wish to reduce the racks of Alphas they already have, and these machines are excellent for the price. And the higher end systems like the SC systems would be wonderful.
AlphaServer DS10 with a 433MHz (or is that 466MHz) CPU can be had for under $3000 from Compaq. I don't know about you, but I plan on making my next Linux machine an Alpha. =D
It runs UNICOS/mk, not Linux. Yet :^)
the article states that samples will be available this year - no mention of volume production.
:-(
Gee vapourware again
Alpha systems interleave PC100 memory for a 256-bit wide memory bus. Latency isn't great, since it's only at 100Mhz, but bandwidth is monstrous.
The memory is switched also, so that memory access from other devices (like the Ethernet controller) do not create a chokepoint for the processor.
Alpha can do triple of x86 FP using only two FP units NOW at same clock (PIII has two that I know about, and SSE). If Intel can just add FP units to beat AXP, are you assuming that the AXP arch cannot?
The Itanic's larger FP register file should help quite a bit on its behalf, but the FP units are still fairly innefficient even if you don't consider the register limitation, hopefully doing away with the legacy crap will fix it.
Every architecture is going to be a moving target or die.
I do agree the AXP fabbers and designers need to get on the ball as the 21264 was about two YEARS late, but apparently there was a huge performance lead as it is.
Right now we can only characterize what is being produced, as for all we know, the performance of unannounced products could be lies, half truths or excessive wishful thinking.
WAHOO!!! I've been waiting a long time for someone to pick up the pace with Alpha! Took a while, but hopefully this is it!! Excellent news for us Alpha Linux users!!!
LONG LIVE ALPHA LINUX and FreeBSD too!
The Transmeta CPU is actualy a 128 bit chip internaly. It only emulates 32 bit x86CPUs.
The positbility exists for it to play ia64 at a latter date.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Alphas have had 64 bit PCI for YEARS now.
And 66MHz PCI this year at 64 bit.
528MB/sec.
Maurice W. Hilarius Voice: (778) 347-9907
I also got a chance to try a 1ghz Alpha, running Linux. Code compiled with (new) gcc was easily 3-4 times faster than a 550 mhz Intel code compiled with the newest MSVC++.
Look at http://www.specbench.org. On SpecCPU95 (there aren't enough SpecCPU2000 results to be worth worrying about), top Intel and AMD processors lead on integer performance, followed by Alpha, with HP a poor third and Sun nowhere.
On FP performance, though it's a different story. There Alpha lead, followed by HP, then AMD, Intel and Sun.
Horses for courses.
I wouldn't worry about code quality. Hardware drivers are definitely a different story, or course, but an EV5 or better system running code that's been compiled with EV5 optimizations will generally smoke any of the x86 chips, especially if it's more complex than plain math performance benchmarks. (The alpha's out-of-order execution stuff gets you a big win here)
It's great that we're getting all of these faster CPU's but when are we going to see faster busses for the data to travel to the memory and devices? Then we're going to need faster devices and memory. IMO we are speeding up the CPU's but not the system.
Neil Cherry - Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
Yes. Compaq's Turbolaser series, the GS140 will
:-)
run up to 14 processors. However, this is old technology. It doesn't run the latest alpha chips, but the next generation of high end AlphaServers are just around the corner and they will. That's the WildFire series, which should start at a max of 32 processors using the newer Alpha EV67 chips @ over 700 Mhz. WildFire is a modular system. You plug 4 CPU bricks together to make as big a system as you need. I expect WildFire to be announced in May. They'll have excellent price/performance ratios.
Lower end systems come in a variety of flavors. From the 1 rack unit single processor DS10L. The 2 processor DS20E, and the four processor ES40.
For more details, check out:
http://www.digital.com/alphaserver/servers.html
And yes, they can run linux. However, Tru64 UNIX brings out the best in them.
Sorry about sounding like a sales-droid. I'm not.
Biggest problem (still) with the x86 architecture is the variable length instructions (and all of the old cruft that hasn't been used since the 286 days). Fixed length instructions are so much cleaner, and more efficient. The whole FP architecture for the Pentium-line is slowed up... Check out the SpecFP for the Alphas and Power/PowerPC chips... much happier at the same clock speed - with the same number of execution units, geneally. It's all in the design, and that's one thing that Mertanium was supposed to be fixing...
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
If you want a fair comparison, compare the 275MHz Alpha against a Pentium 75. That's about the era those came out.
There's a big difference between a 600MHz EV5 and a 600MHz EV6. (about 2x!)
POVray on my EV6 runs REALLY fast.
mike
What's my Karma Mr. Burns? "Excellent"
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20000405/tc/200004 05045.html
Article implies Atipa wants to become the VA Linux of Alpha hardware vendors.
Atipa also has acquired Enhanced Software Technologies, makers of the BRU backup software.
Work for Change & GET PAID!
right, my point being that if your going to ooh-ah and speculate about Alpha vaporware, why examine it in light of the comparable Intel vaporware?
--LP
Quoting from that press release, "Intel will serve as a foundry." That is, they manufacture Alphas on their production lines under contract to Compaq. This certainly doesn't inhibit Compaq from competing with Intel to design the fastest chips. Compaq doesn't have to make any concessions to Intel in order to keep the manufacturing relationship going. Other companies, such as Samsung, manufacture Alphas too, and Compaq is always looking for better deals from other foundaries.
The alpha/x86 competition is fictional; these processors just serve different markets today.
If memory serves, Intel manufactures the alphas that Compaq designs.
See the old intel press release.
I mean big whoop, "Our vapour is faster than their vapour" is all kind of amusing but in this case it's more like "Our vapour is faster than their hardware that is actually available right now". Am I missing the point? So what if this CPU that will be available *at the end of the year* will be faster than anything Intel or AMD have. Probably by that time Intel and AMD will have 1.4's and 1.6 's as well.
Phear my l33t homepage.
yeah liquid N :-( *sighs*.. head hurts.. need more caffeine
WOW... considering you do most of your common welding tasks with an arc welder at 80 amps, that number is quite freaking HIGH!!. I to thought it must have been some kind of mistake. That is going to draw some SERIOUS power. No kidding, keep them submerged in liquid C02
The company I work for makes IC testing equipment, and we have a few prototype Itaniums around. From what I've seen, the Merced is going to suck, but the McKinley will be much better.
BTW, both chips need 125 amps just to get a return signal! Better break out those fire extinguishers.
The package for the Merced looks sort of like a P2/P3 SEC cartridge, except it doesn't have an single-edge connector. It has a traditional PGA coming out the side (well, bottom, really). The PGA isn't much larger than the PGA for a Socket 370, but the socket itself has a surface area similar to a P2/P3 SEC cartridge laying on its side.
Much of the difference in surface area of the PGA connector and socket is due to the truck load of L2 cache on the PCB with the processor.
...as in, no ATX alpha motherboards, no alpha cpus, the only place you can get the stuff is from ($$)VARs and (gag)ebay.
.13 micron insulating substrates) and 1.6 GHz Alpha CPUs have great geek appeal, but waiting years...years...years for the surplus stuff to filter down sucks.
IMO, commercial hardware is going to (increasingly) become the standard.
killer PPC G4's (replete with silk
not everyone can afford (or even wants) to pay 6-8X price for 2X performance.
i think the dual athlons coming up may well set the performance standard. higher speed, lower cost -- AMD has done more than anyone else to bend the price/performance curve in the geek's favor.
alpha and ppc just aren't interested in the mainstream market. don't get me wrong; i'd like either of them on my desktop, but they are really only for esoteric server/proprietary hardware solutions.
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IANAT (I Am Not A Troll)
They already have huge clusters of Alpha systems... it would just be faster.
BlackNova Traders
Do Alpha systems do Multi-Processor boards?
:)
That would be a nice system...
BlackNova Traders
I think you meant liquid nitrogen. Unless you change the pressure, as far as I know, CO2 sublimes-changes from a solid directly to a gas.
"Control the media, control the mind."-Cabal
AMD and Intel have the advantage right now since they have already broken the 1 ghz barrier. Also, the Sledgehammer and Itanium will be x86 compatible, so anyone entering into the 64 bit processor will probably be tempted to buy Intel or AMD.
"Control the media, control the mind."-Cabal
Check out Via's home page -- I don't have the links in front of me, but to paraphrase, they said that in the future, if there was a demand, they might build in support to their motherboards. My understanding is that the two chips are pin for pin compatible, but I'm sure the bios and chipsets would have to be different.
I do not read or respond to AC's. If you want a discussion, log in. Otherwise, don't waste your time.
I've been waiting to upgrade my 500Mhz Alpha for some time now! Hurrah! I'm itching to get my hands on a 1.5Ghz jobbie to see it wop some serious Intel backside.
Sounds more like vaporware to me - 'developing', 'clock speed as high as', 'planning to launch' etc. Unfortunately.
-- Oooh, the girls of the Internet... I'd go online with them any day!
Don't bet on that. I have a 600MHz Alpha next to me right now, and for many tasks it performs at the same level as my 450MHz PII. There's two things dragging down the Alpha:
1) Compiler quality
gcc gives good optimization on Intel chips, but its Alpha code quality isn't so great.
2) Driver quality
Many drivers are simply not optimized for 64-bit systems. They work, but they don't fully utilize the system's potential.
(1) can be partially solved by using Compaq's cc compiler for the Alpha, but even that has its limits. (2) can only be solve if enough developers get behind the platform (not particularly likely unless the price of an Alpha drops to PIII levels).
I keep hearing low-grade rumors that AMD may end up actually making Alphas. If true, that plus the motherboard commonality might put a dent in the price.
Nice would be if AMD postured the Athlon as an "entry level Alpha". Buy Athlon & board now, upgrade to screamin' Alpha later.
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Already been done.
:-)
The AlphaServer SC is a cluster of up to 64 ES40 machines connected by a high-speed memory channel.
The ES40 can take up to four EV67 Alpha processors running at 667MHz and 16GB of memory. Memory is 4-way interleaved on a crossbar switch rather than a conventional memory bus. It's a really nice machine.
A fully decked-out AlphaServer SC can, therefore, have up to 256 processors and 1 Terabyte of RAM.
Is that enough for now?
--
I gave my boss a reality check. It bounced.
You can get an EV67-based 600MHz 2MB cache UP1000 SYSTEM for $3000. That includes software. Ads are running here on Slashdot and Freshmeat.
Yea, it's not $1500, but if you need what Alpha has, it's a good price.
Speaking of price, what IS a good price?
mike (I work at API)
What's my Karma Mr. Burns? "Excellent"
I'm curious to see whether Intel designed the floating point units in Itanium or whether that was an HP contribution. If Intel got the HP floating point units as part of the joint-development deal, this would obviously narrow the gap substantially; HP and Alpha have been pretty neck and neck in the SPEC race the last few years.
--LP
Maybe for what you're using it for but when I ran Povray on my 275mhz alpha w/2MB cache it ran slower than it did on my girlfriend's new PII-266. And the Alpha had twice as much memory. Not that that would have mattered--it was a fairly simple raytracing.
True though, Alpha's rock.
numb
I've upgraded my expectation of the Itanium. I still think that it's going to suck for Windows, but SGI and others seem to be really focussed on getting it working and working WELL with UNIX.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I like Alpha chips. For number-crunching, they are the best, but their commercial future has been a concern. Intel doesn't have the best chips but they do make A LOT of them. The sheer volume brings down not only the selling prices of the cpu, but also the prices of motherboards etc. Alpha chips might still be the king for FP computations but IBM and Sun have pretty good chips, too. How many High-end chips can the market support? I am afraid that Alpha chips will be forced into a very small niche. People would have to pay a lot more for the same porformance/price ratio if they want alpha machines. If that happens, it will only be a matter of time before Compaq pulls the plug. The key point I see is the volume. How can they sell more to justify the R&D cost? One possibility I saw is to let Aplha chips use the same MBs as AMD's K7s. That has not happened, right? Even AMD has troubles to bring down the prices of the K7 motherboards. Is there a way out?
With that much memory you wouldn't even need a hard drive. Just create a virtual drive with your ram :) Imagine how fast you could play Quake 3...
:)
If you've got 256 processors and 1T ram, you're probably not using it for Quake.
NOC: "Network Operations, this is Bob speaking." Jim: "Hey Bob, this is Jim. We've gotta take the server offline. Necesary Maintenance." NOC: "No sweat. Thanks for the warning!" Joe: "We're set?" Jim: "Yep! QUAKE ON!"
Long signatures suck.
Even the 500Mhz alphas in our year old machines are still faster than the gigahertz athlons and PIII's which are grabbing the headlines.
Processor speed isn't just about the clock - The alpha's rock in every way
I can't wait for one of these - I've always wanted to see a heat sink the size of a shoebox...
Let's see - Linux et. al. have M$ on the decline, and IMHO the Alpha could sink _any_ x86 processor out there. The guard is changing. Two years ago I was getting bored with this industry, but not anymore.
BTW, check out http://www.digital.com/info/hp c/ref/ref_alpha_ia64.pdf for the reasons Alphas will smoke IA64. Technical, but interesting.
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
Net: Intel may be about to catch up a significant amount on floating point, a historic Alpha differentiator, and Intel clock rates and integer/branch performance definitely keep pace at the 1-2 GHz levels.
--LP