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Linux Games Come Of Age
Giant Space Hamster writes "I don't know if you've seen this already, but Gamespot has an extensive article on Linux gaming." Well-written and informative. Click it, baby.
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Don't get me wrong, Loki are doing a great job and their developers kick ass, but until their tech support actually goes out of their way to help with something other than just giving dumb answers which rank up with "are you sure the computer is switched on?", Linux gaming is going to be mired in the quicksand of the same kind of hardware problems that used to occur years ago in DOS.
:-) I've always found their tech support to be excellent. I'm not familiar with 3dfx cards at all, but when I was trying to set up Myth 2 on my roommate's computer (which has a Voodoo2), Loki's tech support helped tremendously - no hold times, they spent an hour on the phone with me, walking me through building new Glide drivers, troubleshooting stuff, etc. And when I called them asking about an OpenGL driver for Myth 2 (I have a TNT2), the guy said that he knew of a Glide wrapper for TNT2 cards and said he'd let me know. I gave him my email address, not really expecting a reply, and 2 days later he emailed me the URL for the Glide wrapper. They also helped me with a few other issues (relating to running the Quake 3 Arena tools under Linux.)
Are you sure you called the right number for Loki's tech support?
They have very good tech support, in my experience. Maybe you got a chump when you called, but that doesn't mean they're all like that.
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If you mean ANY piece of software, Windows hasn't arrived by that measurement. There are still plenty of software packages that have chosen alternate distribution channels. If you just mean the main stuff, I can walk into Fry's electronics and get it all; Several flavors of Linux, a couple of office suites, games, development tools....
You can't find a single Linux magazine there, however.
carlos
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
While high profile companies like Loki get a lot of press, I've found it pretty difficult for our company to get mentioned. Given the variety and scope of games listed on sites like linuxgames or happypenguin, I would have expected at least a blurb on either site. I even hoped to get a Slashdot posting. But no one seems to be interested.
I wonder how many other game company startups are out there which make Linux games, that no one will ever hear about.
Anyway, if you are interested visit us at phantomefx.com. tuxgames.com is accepting pre-orders. A demo version is available on our website as well.
Jeremy Peterson
Lead Programmer, Phantom EFX
http://www.phantomefx.com
Redhat 6.2 took care of most of it for me, except installing the 3dfx driver rpm. And that was just a download and a couple of rpm runs.
All my programmers are more productive on an OS that doesn't crash every time they make a mistake.
Using open libraries, I can pick up that geek market, which has extra cash and enough ethics to maybe not share my game with the neighborhood (since a bunch of them program for a living).
I can isolate OS bugs from game bugs -- less test time!
People who play my games don't like smacking into the blue screen, and I can't control the factors that cause it.
Hey, look! I got free hype!
What do you need the an OS running on the hard disk for anyway? There are already good graphical utilities for setting up most hardware. What would be the difference if the user wen't through driver configuration the first time they boot to the cd (or if the boot cd OS read the config files off the HD or a mix of either method). The OS running via the cd could then write/save the settings to the HD with the other datafiles. At that point the game would use whatever API(s) the game was written for.
I beta-tested and got the retail version of Heroes III, and I've recently finished all the campaigns: it's well worth the money!
I'm probably going to get a Matrox G400 for my next computer, in anticipation of future Linux games, so keep porting them, Loki, and we'll keep buying them.
Now if only I could get FF VII or VIII working, or Ultima IX...
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
True. And I found the same with Civ:CTP. I think, however, that they are talking about the stuff that Carmack mentioned: getting a 3D card up and running. That is NOT a simple thing... well, it probably is for you and me and most of the others on /., but your average man on the street? Forget it.
Usually on Windows games you don't even have to do what you showed. You drop the disc in and it starts going. Any 4 year old can do that. Granted, that makes for some really nasty security under Linux if you need to install something as root, but it would help matters a bit if you could do this. Hell, the Atari 2600, Sony Playstation, and all the other consoles do it. It just makes life easier for the folks who have no friggin' clue.
I'm really starting to hate people who think that if you're "smart" you shouldn't mind spending time on mundane things like setting up 3D. I can do it, I just think it's pointless! Give me back my hour I spent setting it up and let me use it to code something cool and make Linux better!
Finally. I'm glad to hear that there's finally some recognition of the gaming software available for Linux. I can't believe we've gone so long without it. With such great games as Gnome Chess, Minefield, Mah johng, etc., how could this have stayed under the gaming radar for so long? Now, maybe we can finally have Gnome Checkers!
It's simply a matter of time before XFree86 4.x becomes viable for use by everybody; what we need is a similar commitment by the hardware manufacturers (e.g. Creative, which is currently an OpenAL SIG member) to quickly produce OpenAL drivers so that the essential differences between Windows and Linux gaming are the essential differences between the two operating systems.
*** Proven iconoclast, aspiring epicurean ***
IBM's Visual Age for Java came with a slick install that looks and acts very much like Install Shield. I don't think it's that big a deal to do. This is helped a lot by the fact that Linux environments are pretty consistent these days - you can pretty much count on glibc being available, and XFree 3.3.6. The task is made far, far simpler when programs are statically linked, like most of the "big" systems are. Still, that's kind of a cop-out. I'd rather put up with a bit more fiddling with libraries, and be able to install lighter, tighter dynamically linked programs. This imposes some interesting new user-interface requirements on install programs - how do you gently explain to dear user that such-and-such library needs to be updated? The best approach would be to follow up immediately with a "shall I find it on the web, download it, and install it for you now?".
I have a couple of beefs with install programs in general, though. One thing: it would suck to have to download the entire install program with every package you install. (This is the status quo for Windows, and one of the reasons we get used to *every* program being multi-megabyte, even simple programs like email clients.) I guess what this means is: we need a standard library to support gui-style installing complete with the usual handholding, so the same code doesn't have to be bound redundantly into every package. The package itself should just contain some nice tight script, preferably compiled into bytecodes or some such.
OK, while I'm getting warmed up to this topic, there really isn't any excuse for failing to compress these install packages. RPM's have some kind of compression, but it's hardly optimal (I just tried compressing a few rpms to verify that). Let's go for the gusto and rely on bzip2 being available - it zips *significantly* better than gzip and pkzip.
My biggest beef with the glitzy installs I've seen is that they *don't* use the RPM (or any other) database, and so you lose all the nice query capabilities you have, and they don't show up in any of the graphical package management utilities.
So who is going to be the first to hack up a nice installer that uses RPM (you'd have to do a DEB version as well to cover the bases) and hooks into some nice script engine like Python, and relies on GTK? Sure, it won't work on every system but it will work on *most* of them, and almost all the new ones. Who is going to be the one that builds the Linux installer that catches on?
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
To an outsider whose eyes are clear of zealotry, the Linux game market looks like this:
1. There are only a handful of commercial games.
2. Those games are also available for Windows, so even if I decide to pick up Linux at Barnes & Noble I still have Windows around to play games with. Not sure why I would want to play the Linux version.
3. The freebie games are pretty horrendously unexciting. Yay! Hundreds of Tetris and Asteroids variants! Does Open Source somehow imply a lack of creativity?
4. All the nifty games like The Sims and FreeSpace 2 and Roller Coaster Tycoon aren't out for Linux.
But this is almost identical to the situation we saw when the PC took the games market away from the Apple II, and again when Windows took it away from Dos. Some people see a half-empty glass, some see it half-full. You're right, the situation is exactly as you describe it, but to me that's nothing but good news for Linux.
let's be honest about this. There are very few reasons to even consider using Linux for games...
Ah... I beg to differ. The big reason to use Linux for games is because you use it for everything else. Why should I waste disk space (not to mention letting myself in for all that aggravation and possible virus invasions) by having Windows on my system?
While I'm on the subject, by most accounts there are something like 10,000,000 Linux users already, and doubling every year. All well-educated, generally fun-loving, and generally possessing excellent earning power. That's a no-brainer as far as marketing goes.
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
This question begs for a six page answer - but briefly:
I think Open Source encourages creativity in programmers by making source code accessible and providing great tools for zero cost.
But creativity in programming and creativity in game design, artwork or sound work are completely different things.
Building a quality game by today's standards is an immensley challenging task requiring a pool of multi-discipline resources - not just a talented programmer. There are very few graphic artists and sonic artists using the Linux platform today because there isn't the attraction of great (cheap) tools for them.
There's also the issue of collaboration. There are now quite well established conventions (and tools) for a distributed team of programmers to work together - CVS, code commenting, etc. This infrastructure doesn't exist for graphic design, for example. As someone who's been the Art Director of a creative team I can tell you creative collaboration on a project is hard enough with your entire team in the same room!
Anyway, I've only covered the tip of the iceberg here - but hopefully the point is made.
--
Rare Window - free your photos
On most newer games I've played I've rarely come across this problem but I agree that many older games suffered badly from this. Maybe I just don't play crappy games anymore. One of the biggest hassles was Quicktime 2.x. Everyone used it but they all used a slightly different version which had no idea you already had it installed.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
I hope that the implentation by loki of OpenAL is better then it is for windows. I can't even use it on quake3, it drops the fps by 30-40.
--
tcd004
Here's my Microsoft Parody, where's yours?
I think the last time I tried it was for a mysql JDBC driver. I'll try it again and see what happens.
Ten million Linux users? Where does that number come from. According to most things I've seen it says Linux numbers about 1% of the home market nowadays. That is one percent of about one hundred million which is smaller than your estimate by a factor of ten.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Because RPM only knows about other software that was installed through RPM. If you use non-RPM methods to install *anything* that another package might depend on, you'll get dependancy errors later. RPM is optimal for systems where *all* the software is installed through RPM.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
For answers look to usenet, it has been around since before Rob and Jeff were wetting their diapers...well almost that long. Don't let Linux hype get to you either, the Windows/Intel "stranglehold" hasn't been entirely bad. Without Intel and AMD competing in their clock speed pissing contest we'd still be running around on 200mhz Pentium Pro boxes thinking we were l33t because we had 32 megs of RAM. A free developer-centric OS is probably not going to ever be a real desktop/home champion until someone stops releasing distrobutions of software and actually builds a whole environment around the kernel rather than repacking everyone else's software.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
We haver this already, it's called console gaming. The problem with the idea, even though it's a decent idea, is that it requires the video game companies to do massive amounts of extra work in order to release a game. This costs them money that could be better spent on writers and artists. It also reduces the appeal of said game. If I have to reboot my system to play a game and then boot back I'm not going to be a happy person.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
I never said I don't like convienence. I said I can't expect the average Joe User to do what Carmack mentioned. Hell, I know a lot of Linux folk who are scared to death to compile a kernal for themselves. I know even more who don't have sound on their machines because they did not know about the sndconfig program in RH. And these guys are anything but clueless.
I myself can't wait for the day when USB works perfectly. Right now I have a bunch of USB devices sitting here not being used. Why? Cause I have not been able to get the blasted USB backport to work. I will rejoice and dance around my back yard naked singing "Linus and Alan are Gods!" the day it works.
Why? Cause I hate doing "mundane things". That's why I use pico and not vi.
The nice thing about linux is the wide selection of most everything. Desktops, utilities, ect. But because of the wide selection of libraries how does a game company decied which ones to use?
The concept of building one program off another programs code is great, but then someone has to have both to run one, and the correct version level. I am not against choice, but if there is to be a greater movement towards linux and games some solid standards have to be created.
If all the distributions could have a commen set of core libs and maybe decide on an installation system that would be a start. I don't think installing in linux is open heart surgury, but it has on many occasions for me been a pain.
I wonder if the people who make install shield has conciderd making a installer for linux?...
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
Warning, OT:
/. user be kicked out of /. for bitching.
The real coming of age for linux on the game arena is probably not based on easy installation and configuration of the latest trend in game wizardry. Same goes for linux's coming of age as THE desktop platform requiring easier installation and configuration for office apps. For some reason linux lovers have deviated ourselves from the original path that took us where we are. blame it on CNN and IBM for liking us, but all the publicity and capital has made as much bad as it has made good.
why is linux good? hmm let's see:
it's rock solid, but so is solaris and AIX.
It's free? nah, that's the downside (otherwise it would have been popular 3 years ago)
It's the open source movement stupid!: Linux is great because people relate it to OSS. It's popular because of apache, sendmail, samba, gimp, slashcode, etc. But that has nothing to do with MS Office or running the latest windows game!!! (i'm I the only one that thinks this way?)
my frustration level has been steadily increasing with the latest versions of everything that's been done for linux: New, the latest and greatest database system, made to look exactly like oracle!! New and improved desktop environment, it even smells like a window!. I've been sneaking out of meetings, leaving work early, investing precious time in learning everything i can about everything related to developing open source stuff, but every time i feel more and more alone. I don't want an open source powerpoint or an open source oracle, I want open souce AI.I want an open source desktop environment using an open source 3d rendering engine designed for 3d accelerators complete with mouselook and strafe. I want open source search server software that would learn from queries and would spend all day gathering relevant informaiton for me. I want a simple open source word processor that talks html natively to my web server so that i can write letters directly to a url. I want an open source spreadsheet program that is really an interface to a postgreSQL database and presentas and manipulates relationships intuitively (using the open source 3d environment).
Games? well my point is it's not about doing what the others do. that's not what made linux great. it's about being innovative (copyright Microsoft, 1999). how great would a strategy or role playing game be if it was developed by the best players and hackers around on an open source environment? we're good at making new, innovative things, not at making carbon copies of other people's work. That's what's changed. was lotus123 on an IBM PC easy to use for the accountant upstairs? no! some sysadmins had to go around the office everyday turning computers on and running the programs so that people could use it, but they used it anyways. why? because it gave them something unique and valuable. what's so unique and valuable about kde or gnome? sure gnome is open source, but what does it do that you can't do on windows? re-configure everything? is that enough to turn people away from plug and play, ie, mediaplayer, directx and compatible(ubiquitous) file formats? didn't think so, so stop expecting gnome to make people switch from windows (i use both and i'm happy at it). I don't load my linux to do what i do on windows, otherwise i would do it on windows (which you end up having anyways). people install linux because it makes a heck of a server and is too fun to use. same people then go and install it on their home computers and laptops and expect it to do the same as other people's desktop. that's wrong! we need our own creative open way of doing things.
oh well, I better stop or i'll be the first
========================
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
It's really great to see Linux finally getting some games. One step closer to ditching Windoze forever. I think I just read somewhere that XFree86 4.0 will allow better use of the hardware and makes games with similar performance to Windoze. But I also agree with those people who think PCs will have tough contenders with the new PS2, Nintendo's Dolphin, and other high-powered and relatively low-cost consoles. Granted, some games will never be as good on a console as a PC, but I think they are getting better. If someone ever manages to develop a mouse or trackball like device for their console, even strategy games may become available. Who knows, future consoles may even run Linux and chunks of X.
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
At the WorldForge project, a large MMORPG project with over 50 members, we have found that the biggest barrier to creating games with a competitive look and feel is creating the media. Getting coders is not too hard, though we are always on the lookout for new recruits, but finding talented artists, particularly animators, who have time to contribute to an Open Source project can be really tough.
All are hopes are currently pinned on blender becoming Open Source this summer.I doubt we will EVER see a popular Open Source video game. Games may use open libraries and formats and such but we're not going to see an open game taking up space on pages of video game magazines or websites. Why? Most games start out as an engine and then someone is called in to write a story or something to use said engine. Engines will be all over the place because that is the work of programmers. The real meat of the game lies in the content creation. Would anyone play Quake 3 if there were no textures, just a bunch of surfaces and the occasional light? No. If Need for Speed was just boxes you steered around a track that you could add Object X, Y, and Z to would anyone have bought it? No. A good game most people can relate to is Diablo and Diablo 2. Both of these games were developed in studios which employ numerous graphic artists and sound dudes. These people can make a hundred thousand dollars on a contract with a real company or get their name of a "special thanks goes to:" mention on an open project. For those of you new to economics, the hundred thousand dollars is the payment that pays the rent. I see too many supposed Linux zealots calling for the source code to games. What good will it do the average Joe to have the source code for a game. I guess of course you could use it to build cheat-bots or make your own cheap knock-off version of the same game.
I do have a suggestion for the XFree people in the matter of gaming. How about a windowing system that is non-networked but with many of the same function calls as the normal version of X so things don't have to be entirely rewritten. A speedy windoing system would go a really long way to making gaming on unix based system a viable prospect.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
> Geeks who fixate on which operating system they use.
... Not sure why I would want to play the Linux version.
... Does Open Source somehow imply a lack of creativity?
... I don't see why I should paint myself into a corner just for the sake of supporting an operating system.
What is that supposed to mean? If a consumer makes an informed choice, is that "fixating"?
> 1. There are only a handful of commercial games.
This is not as big a deal as it might seem. I'm sure there are lots of game addicts that run out and buy a new game every Friday night, but not all of us operate that way. Actually, it turns my stomach to walk in to a CompUSA and see three aisles of games, of which 98% can be summarized as "five titles plus a myriad lookalike wannabes". I'd much rather have a handful of good games than a closet full of trash.
> 2.
I was a dual booter for my first year on Linux. Let me tell you, it gets old sitting through a reboot to Windows wondering "What kind of Winsanity (TM) is it going to suffer when it comes up this time?" Nothing spoils gaming night worse than spending a couple of hours of preciously hoarded game time trying to get Windows to remember that it still has the same hardware it had last time you used it.
> 3.
Perhaps it has in the past, at least to some extent. However, I think we're outgrowing it. For instance, the Freeciv developers are showing more and more interest in ditching strict Civ II compatibility and molding the game to their own notions of what a strategy game should be.
On the other hands, games like Xconq seem to be sui generis.
> 4.
If you own a computer solely for use as a game console, then sure, pick the OS [or console brand] that gives you the best gaming experience. If however you use your computer for lots of other things, you might naturally want to consider some of those other things when making your choice of OS, too.
> unless you've decided to hold fast to OS-centric views.
As with your "fixate" above, what the heck is that supposed to mean? My question about informed choice still arises.
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I admit it, I haven't bought Quake 3 YET... I still plan to though. I still have a dual-boot, but when I really feel the need to play Sim City 3K I just type: "vmware /win/98/98.cfg" Best $100 I ever spent, somehow windows feels less dirty when it's on Linux :-)
But the day when I can play Sim City 3K without 380M of ram is soon to come according to Loki. After that who knows what games I could be addicted to, all I know for sure is it will not be minesweeper.
Devil Ducky
Devil Ducky
MY peers would get out of jury duty.
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
So Linus, what are we going to do tonight?
The same thing we do every night Tux. Try to take over the world!
One one side, we have open source making these drivers and applications available to try out from day one. You try it in its development state, and you you get the drivers available almost as soon as someone starts working on them. This is great for someone wanting to use only the basic initial features of any code.
On the bad side though, as any coder knows, the installation and aesthetic appearance of the finished product is something that only comes about after the core of the application/driver is complete. Aesthetics and installation is only a wrapper around the core code, and hence comes last.
So although the installation of Linux ports of games is not an entirely painless process at the moment, we will have to wait until code devel of the various drivers are completed. As the article states, 3d drivers will be shortly integrated into the XFree86 codebase, once their primary functions have been written.
It will be from this time that we will see all of the QuakeIII/HereticII installs being as simple as running one script from the CDROM. (I am not a fan of Windozes cd auto-run "feature" though, as it presents obvious security issues).
3D video/audio development is currently in its peak (or about to reach it), so I think we will be seeing built in support for these in all the major distributions before the end of the year.
Give the driver code base a chance to be developed first.
Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker
No doubt.
I think most of that ease can be attributed to SDL. Just running the install script takes care of the SDL install for you, and the game just works. I wish more developers would use it.
It's fast, easy, and best of all, portable.
Does anyone know of a similar open standard for installing software that is not distribusion specific. I'm not terribly fond of RPMs. Half the time it seems to work but the program won't execute. At least if I compile it myself I see the problems firsthand. How about a special game distro for just running a game off of the boot CD? That way only the data files need to be written to the HD.
I disagree with the comment that installing games on Linux is like performing open-heart surgery.
I bought RR II - ran the install file as root (install.sh?). 3 or 4 minutes later I was playing. No funky options to choose, ran great first try. Crashed a bit after that, but there were patches (same as Windows games). So, where is the difficulty?
win: This application has performed an illegal operation and will now shut down.
mac: The application "Unknown" has unexpectedly quit because of an error of type x.
unix: your process died. find worthless developer who apparently can't code his way out of a wet paper bag and kick his ass? (y/n)
note that on OpenBSD, the default is 'y' :-]
...for some people. ;) Myself included.
Yes, you do not have access to the same number of titles as windows users. Know what? 98% of those Windows titles are crap I'd never touch anyway. So I can't play Daikatana, so I'll never be able to run Tomb Raider 5; I think I'll be able to cope with that. Loki has IMO been extremely smart in selling only *quality* titles that "Linux people" will be interested in (Civ:CTP, Q3A, SimCity2000, Alpha Centauri, etc, etc.)
Yes, the hardware support is not as extensive as windows 98. People who complain about this really irritate me. If you want a 3D card and you run Linux, then take 30 freaking seconds and check if the card you're going to buy is going to work or not. Sheesh! I always research before a purchase to make sure a device is going to work well on my linux box and I have NEVER been DISAPPOINTED.
Linux is also by far the most stable gaming platform. One of the reasons I switch to linux was cause TeamFortress didn't crash the system like it was prone to do under Win95. With linux, I can minimize all my work programs and fire up Q3Arena for a quick 10 minute frag-break. I don't have to worry about my box crashing, and my work apps are always there waiting for me when I exit, safe, sound and still executing.
Bah!
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
So Linus, what are we going to do tonight?
The same thing we do every night Tux. Try to take over the world!
Welll...
The only problem with your scenario is that it would require common programs across all distros. Common window managers, common X versions, etc. Part of the beauty of Linus is the choice.
I can install RedHat in 15 minutes on most any system, depending on CDROM speed. Then, just connect to helixcode, and get the latest gnome w/support programs. In all, this will take you a couple hours. At that point, you've got a nice capable system that your mom could figure out. It's got a graphical login, and it's close enough to windows so that she can find solitare, not to mention it looks better. Then add SDL, which Loki uses in most of it's games and which is installed automatically, and you've got a nice system. Even go with XFree 4.0 if you wish. The point is, you can do what you want, the way you want.
btw, Windows isn't trouble free, especially when it comes to 3D. Most times you have to swap video drivers a few times before you can get playable, but still stable gameplay. Not to mention, 50% of the games out there don't work with Win2000. They can't get to the hardware. I've got a customer who can't even use their tape drive because they upgraded to 2000.
I expect this to be moderated down. Sigh.
.College students, because there's some benefit to using Linux if you're a comp sci major, and also because it's free (either "free as in beer" because students are generally cash short, or "free as in freedom" because it's easier to be idealistic when you're a student). High school students are included here, too, though maybe to a lesser degree.
Right now, there are three primary groups using Linux:
1. ISP's and other businesses that need rock solid networking and file serving.
2
3. Geeks who fixate on which operating system they use. This overlaps somewhat with the previous item.
Right now, Loki is selling mostly to number 3, and I suspect this is the smallest and most volatile group. Number 2 is where the users are, but that's a tough place to make money. It's the same place crazy Napster support is coming from, and for a very obvious reason.
To an outsider whose eyes are clear of zealotry, the Linux game market looks like this:
1. There are only a handful of commercial games.
2. Those games are also available for Windows, so even if I decide to pick up Linux at Barnes & Noble I still have Windows around to play games with. Not sure why I would want to play the Linux version.
3. The freebie games are pretty horrendously unexciting. Yay! Hundreds of Tetris and Asteroids variants! Does Open Source somehow imply a lack of creativity?
4. All the nifty games like The Sims and FreeSpace 2 and Roller Coaster Tycoon aren't out for Linux. Maybe they'll get ported next year, but I don't see why I should paint myself into a corner just for the sake of supporting an operating system.
Harsh? Maybe, but let's be honest about this. There are very few reasons to even consider using Linux for games, unless you've decided to hold fast to OS-centric views. If there were something really sweet that were available only for Linux, I could see _some_ people peering over the wall to see what all the fuss was about, and maybe setting up a partition to play. But we're a long way from seeing that happen.
Lead programmer for J-J-J-Julius Games, a leading and cutting-edge game company based out of Baltimore, MD.
Really? I don't see any thing on the web and your URL doesn't go anywhere.
I have worked on many ground-breaking products within the industry, including Spork II, Star Trek: The Fillament Legacy, and Pitfall for Nokia 5125.
I have done a search for these games and they just don't seem to come up on any search I do on the search engines or gaming sites. You claim to be a great game programmer but your titles are unknown and your company doesn't seem to exist. If you are not a troll then please explain.
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
So Linus, what are we going to do tonight?
The same thing we do every night Tux. Try to take over the world!
What this leads me to is the various hardware problems. While processor speeds, ram etc... are all standard, I believe that hardcore Linux gaming, as in commercial games like Loki are porting, are going to have problems for a while yet. I mean I have this hardware problem which I can't find the answer to and their tech support seems unwilling to try and help with, plus there are innumerable other problems. Just go check out some of the groups on their news server and read about the various technical problems people are having.
Don't get me wrong, Loki are doing a great job and their developers kick ass, but until their tech support actually goes out of their way to help with something other than just giving dumb answers which rank up with "are you sure the computer is switched on?", Linux gaming is going to be mired in the quicksand of the same kind of hardware problems that used to occur years ago in DOS.
Where I work, I develop some of the internal applications, all of them web based. I do this by choice so the BeOS people and the Linux people, and even the windows people can use them from anywhere on any OS. Great, fine, good.
But Gah! I have to boot into windows 98 to play EverQuest... (and don't try to tell me not to play EverQuest, it is an addiction and I'm not giving it up). There are some great advances here, but a lot of reluctance from some of the companies. I am tempted to buy copies of QuakeIII Linux, just to promote Linux ports (even though I already gave up my Quake addiction).
What it comes down to is we are all dreaming of the day when we have no use for Windows. When we have a dual boot machine and we delete the wondows partition to fit StarCraft 2 on our hard drives. When we spend a weekend getting all of our code to compile on Kylix.
So, what is missing? I guess we need every company everywhere in the world to jump at once.
-Effendi
-Effendi
Every once in a while I try Linux to check out the desktop. See if I can play any games. But still for my main programs, most don't work or take hours to get running. ie: Quake3: setup with Nvidia accel, xfree86 4, and quake3 (all fine). I was sitting in #nvidia on irc.openprojects.net for like 3 hours to figure out why I was getting some retarded error. They have a nv_check.sh that checks for conflicting gl dlls. It missed two which was my problem. Load times were faster than Windows by the way. Probably 3-4 times faster. But the speed of the mouse was too low, and refresh was too high. So you get pains because if you move the mouse a cm, it doesn't go anywhere. Mouse support in XWindows needs to be improved. These things need to be simplified. There shouldn't be ANY work to play your favorite game. There shouldn't be ANY work to use your desktop. Everything should be still accessible by experts if they prefer to do it the tedious way too. Do linux developers believe that simple is evil or something? There is some SERIOUS UI attention needed in the desktop. I could care less about KExplorer if the UI is still crappy. Double clicking on a setup file and playing a game is great. Linux gaming will never be widely accepted until these things are fixed. If newbies can't do it, then you don't have an audience. I use linux for my server needs. But as a desktop, and a gaming platform Windows 2000 is superior. (98 sucks too) Vice versa Windows 2000 is a shitty bloated server. You guys wonder why Windows has a huge market? It's a segment that has a need and it fills it. If you want Linux to gain more acceptance, step up to the plate and fix these things. I figure Mandrake, Corel, Redhat, etc are leaning towards this route. Though they are becoming bloatware too.(i'm a slack lover)