Sega Looks At Licensing Dreamcast

coj writes: "In a move that seems like a response to Sony's recent announcements, ZDNet is reporting that Sega is in talks to license the Dreamcast technology to other companies. Maybe the U.S. consumer is finally ready for an all-in-one set-top box ... or maybe the console manufacturers are making the same mistakes 3D0 did. Should be interesting."

Comments

the story isn't completely right

[k_187]

Someone before mentioned that this would allow the Dreamcast to have diffrent configurations (somewhat like 3DO but not). isn't Dolphin also going to be this way??? Nintendo is parterning with (forgive the spelling) Mashuita, Panasonic's parent company, to make the DVD units and Mashuita under hte Panasonic name will be allowed to make Dolphin compatable DVD units, i.e. the Nintendo Dolphin system won't have DVD movie capabiliies built in, but for another $100, the Panasonic Dolphin compatable player will (think nuon only good).

I just want to point this out, For what I know nintendo has already licensed Dolphin to Mashuita, making it's deals way before Sony. (oh and supposedly the Nintendo Dolphin will debut for $99 and the PSX2 wasn't orignally supposed to have built in DVD movie playback, look at the problems because of region codes with it)

What is the console market, anyway?

[albamuth]

All this talk of the console makers venturing into the realm of PC's and net-ready appliances raises the question to me, what is it about the console market that makes it so different from the PC market?

Console games are developed with hardware limitations in mind - PC games are just made with arbitrary hardware requirements (RAM needed, minimum playable network ping, etc.). Because of this, you seldom experience problems with your console games (unless your dog has pissed on your PSX more than once) but the latest PC games are infuriatingly unstable (fixable, but who wants to play a game that badly to go thru the trouble?)

In light of this, it makes sense that only one console dominate the market at the time; since all their games are incompatible to each other (but you can emulate all systems on your PC -- haha!) it provides a wide selection of games when one console is in dominance and you have that console.

Now, if someone wants to fix this and have many console makers, then there have to be standards created for making games, like PC's. Once that happens, then what's the point of having consoles? The only alternative IMHO is for Sony to allow OEM's to put together their own, competitive Playstation(2)'s -- there could be more or less expansion slots, different packaging, system tweaks, etc. That is what made VHS destroy Betamax, which is too bad because betamax was a pretty decent format.

Re:Just a technical nit:

[CrusadeR]

Strangely enough, one of their titles is available for Linux:

Heroes of Might and Magic III

http://www.lokigames.com/products/heroes 3/

I'm not exactly a big fan of turn-based fantasy strategy, but the Heroes series is generally acknowledged as the best of the breed, and having the latest in the series available on the Linux platform is a Good Thing in and of itself.

Re:3DO?

[Tetsujin28]

Please excuse the ignorance ... but what was their major malfunction?

Early on, Wired magazine plugged them as the Next Big Thing. That's a sure-fire technology killer.


--------------------
WWW.TETSUJIN.ORG

Same mistake as 3DO?

[oozer]

I don't think Sony and Sega are making the same mistake as 3DO. The difference is that 3DO started off with the intention of licencing hardware manufacture and sales to multiple companies - their whole business model relied on these other companies to make their hardware design and sell it in quantity.

Sony and Sega by contrast have already made a success of their respective consoles to the extent that the software developers are happy enough to support the platform. Any extra licencing they can pull in now is icing on the cake.
--

Re:The end of Nuon?

[Graymalkin]

When I first heard about the Nuon I was impressed and hoped for the best for the dudes. Now you can hardly find any info on them. From's what I understood the Nuon was sort of like a graphical DSP which could perform a set number of functions and calculations and was ONLY a rendering chip. I just don't think the people behind Nuon got enough people interested in the thing.

Re:24/7

[Graymalkin]

And a backpack full of potatos to power it!

Re:Smoke and/or Mirrors

[Graymalkin]

The DC and PS2 sell at a loss only in the very early stages of production while the companies are still paying off development and implimentation overhead (which ususally if the company is efficient with their outsourcing lasts about a year) with the rest of the life of the console being cake. Since the DC has been out long enough that they are going back into the black on it and moving towards higher profit margins due to licensing (as you pointed out) it makes sense for them to license. Every DC sold now is paying for itself with a little bit of profit but it hasn't saturated the market (I don't own one yet). Now if Phillips and Panasonic start churning out DC compatible DVD players or set-top web boxes they are selling a product with an entrenched production base so they have extremely low development costs and they have a new product to put in many people's living rooms. It's like back in the day when people bought PCs that said "IBM compatible". It's good for the makers of the chip and license owners because they get fees from the licensees but then the licensees push units out the department store's door because it has the licensed logo and software compatibility.

I can do what?

[Malk-a-mite]

"hopes to plant core PlayStation2 technologies into a host of Internet-capable devices"

Cool.
So now I'll be able to challege my internet ready freezer to a networked game of Quake while playing the toaster?

Things are getting wierder all the time.
I wonder how far we're going to take the "network capable devices" too.
Aren't there some thing that don't need a 100mb uplink to the net?

Malk-a-mite

A smart move for Sega

[peterb]

I am impressed with the way that Sega has been playing things lately. I think this shows that they are continuing to think ahead, and not just get into the nintendo/monopolist mindset. In some ways, this is a reflection of the power of open standards.

I think one of the reasons the Dreamcast is doing so well (in the US and Europe, at least) is because it is so (relatively) easy to program for. By licensing the technology, Sega will increase the incentive of developers to write to their standard.

I wish them luck. Now I have to get back to playing "Space Channel 5" and "Gauntlet Legends".

Re:A smart move for Sega

[tealover]

we are here (waves index and middle fingers back and forth between our eyes...)

I went out and bought an N64 (stop laughing) to play Perfect Dark. While I was at it, I also picked up GoldenEye and Legend of Zelda because I heard those were the best games on the N64. Do those games compare to Dreamcast? No. Do they rock? Hell yeah !! I've been playing the hell out of all 3 because they are great games.

I'll probably wind up buying a PS2. Only after I find that there is a game or 2 that I absolutely have to have and can't find on the Dreamcast.

3DO?

[bemis]

Please excuse the ignorance ... but what was their major malfunction? All I recall about them was that they made a pretty cool set-top-box that was a little too pricey for my wallet at the time (i think i was like 17 or something -- if that)

-I'm not an alcoholic -- they go to meetings! I'm a DRUNK!-

Re:3DO?

[swdunlop]

Their malfunction was selling the console for what it actually cost to manufacture. That box was rather pricey, although it /did/ do some fantastic things, for its time.

Later, Sega's Saturn and Sony's Playstation would manage to make high-end hardware more appealing to consumers by selling the console at a loss, and making their money of the licensing of software. The modern equivalent of give away the razor, sell the blades. Sony managed to outlicense Sega, using its entertainment industry clout to muscle past them. Game developers also complained loud and often about the Saturn's APIs being as ugly as they come.

Atari Jaguar tried this, too, but Atari tried to keep all their game development in house, which caused what was a really stellar piece of hardware in the closet, because it had no software to go with it. I think the first game that I had to actually take breaks playing, because it scared the hell out of me, was the Jaguar's Aliens Vs. Predator.

Re:3DO?

[Edmund]

3DO was a specification, and the technology was licensed (sp?) out to third party manufacturers to make. As long as your device met the 3DO specs, it was a 3DO device.

- Ed.

Sony does it for marketshare... does Sega?

[Brand X]

Somehow, this reeks of Sega playing catch-up with Sony with no particular plan in mind. I've long wondered if there was really room for three in the console market. It's always really been two, with an occasional third ousting one of the two, until the entrance of Sony and the failure of Sega to, quite, leave. I see it working for Sony. They're good at this sort of thing... and PS equipped hotel TV boxes with pay-per-view (this was done with the SNES, IIRC) might be one payoff... but Sega has never shown that kind of market savvy.

Re:Sony does it for marketshare... does Sega?

[cybrthng]

Actually the PSX and the DC are none whatsoever similar other then the word "game console" used between them.

I never considered Sony a console system for several reasons, the major one being sony can't write a game for squat, so i guess being a monopoly makes up for that :)

And no, it is not catchup. The DC is a fast 128bit gaming console with internet and gameplay in mind. The PS2 is yet to be released, so in my mind it is sony playing catchup to try and curtail the DC wave.

I can confess, i own a Sony DVD player, but never will i touch a PSX with a 10 foot pull. I got bleemcast for that haha :)

Playstation 1 already in hotels and soon planes!

[jelwell]

When I was in Florida for Spring Break the hotel I stayed in had a playstation controller coming out of the television. Their onscreen menu system had a handful of games that you could play. I didn't do too much tinkering, but there was an odd box on the back of the television that was called something like remotetvsystem - that had a wire running into the wall.

Anyone ever flown Virgin? I know when I flew Virgin from Los Angeles to London the tv that popped out of my arm rest was controlled by an old style Nintendo controller (the one with 2 red buttons, A & B). This rig had headphones, and what was most certainly an old Turbografx! unless someone ported Bonks Adventures to another system...

Sony knows were they're going.
Joseph Elwell.

And this is supposed to benefit who?

[drinkypoo]

If I wanted a machine with the power of a P233MMX with a PowerVR, I'd put one together. What's the big deal here? The Playstation 2 hardware is special and impressive, the DC hardware doesn't do anything that isn't already handled (better!) by other hardware.

The only potential benefit here would be if they made it super cheap. Then we'd see all kinds of cable boxes and such with neeto interfaces, and perhaps it could lower development time for such embedded systems by minimizing the amount of hardware that has to be developed for any new solution; You don't have to do much work to handle the UI, just put together the actual guts of the device and interface it to the DC system.

If they're clever, they'll just come up with a standard DC subsystem with a basic control interface, a socket for a big fat ROM, and another socket for some flash. They just need to take a tip from the Amiga Genlock and be able to overlay DC video over whatever video signal is input to it, so that you can use it meaningfully for an interface to DVD players, Cable Boxes, and the like. I have to admit that it would be really slick to have something like that that would be an interface to my VCR where the control widgets showed up in 3d and stuff, but then again, it's not particularly useful.

I'm far more jazzed about the prospect of having cheap systems based on the Emotion Engine and with the PS2 graphics processor. Then again, that's what the PS2 is; Maybe someone should just port linux (or something else, but linux is keen) to the PS2. It's going to have a firewire hard disk, right? You should be able to (with sufficient application of intelligence, time, and potentially money) put a kernel on a CD-ROM (Can the PS2 read CD-RW?) and put the rest of the OS on the firewire hard disk, or on some other firewire peripheral, such as a JAZ or ZIP disk. Then again, there's always Zip USB...

it's not going to be all-in-1 until...

[AugstWest]

It does the whole Tivo thing.

Microsoft and DirecTV as well as Tivo and DirecTV are releasing combined units this year, toward Christmas.

I want a digital video recorder, but i don't want to pay $299 for a computer to hook up to the TV that does nothing else. Maybe someone will come out with software for the PSX2 and Dreamcast to handle digital video recording (with their already-announced hard drives), but I see nothing announced so far. That would be the ideal situation for me and I'm sure a lot of other consumers as well.

Re:Clones?

[Graymalkin]

There is no company that makes a series of computers called PCs, the PC is a class of computers. Macs are as much PCs as Gateways or IBMs.

Times, New Romans, lend me your vectors

[Graymalkin]

I'm starting to get worried about console gaming in the future. I'm worried because it sounds like if you have a Sega console and Sony console they will fight to the death like Kirk and Spock for the Triskellions. I bought an N64 off eBay because it came with the one game I was really wanting to play, Legend of Zelda. Now that the semester is over and my finals have been taken it looks like I'm going to put a little more effort into rescuing princess Zelda. Why in the world would I buy an N64 when I have a PC that is capable of playing a plethora of games? I can only get Ocarina of Time on the N64. That my troll feeding friends is the reason video game consoles exist, they exist to play video games. If said consoles were phalic representations like big trucks and boats we would buy them merely to show people that we had the biggest and best equipment around. Who cares if the PS2 can churn out 18 million more triangles than the Dreamcast, I may really love playing Crazy Taxi (I spent an hour playing it at Gameworks today). I'll most likely end up buying a PS2 after exmas when the prices drop by 75$ so I'll be ready to play Final Fantasy 10 and 11. Final Fantasy 7 was pretty much the sole purpose of my PSX until I got Gran Tourismo. After I get a system I end up buying and renting lots of games for them because I enjoy playing them but there's nothing preventing me from owning more than one console.
At this point I think it is a really good idea for Sega to license out the DC, they're now breaking even on console sales and are rolling out seganet which will makes them cash for each person who's using it. Breaking even on console sales means they can let someone else build hardware and they don't lose money. Now if these new hardware manufacturers get their customers hooked up to seganet, Sega makes money off of this and the hardware manufacturer saves money on their new product because it had almost zero development and deployment cost. They're merely putting different styled cases on Dreamcast. Saying that seganet takes off and gets some broadband support added to it, I can see seganet getting to be like a WebTV type setup. The Dreamcast has powerful enough hardware that it could turn into (through licensing and broadband support) a convergance device. Sony has leverage in the area already since they manufacture PCs, entertainment appliances and gaming consoles. Check through a magazine from about a year ago and you'll probably see an ad for the Sony home theater setup. If you combined a set-up like that with broadband internet and a gaming console you'd have an impressive line-up. This is exactly what Sony is doing in-house. Sega is trying to come up from behind and pull off the same thing but out of house. It's all about the games and the bottom line, I don't give a shit who's logo it is as long as I get to play some Crazy Tazi and Final Fantasy.

Does the Dreamcast count as an all-in-one system?

[Glytch]

To be considered all-in-one nowadays it has to be able to play DVDs. Since a stock Dreamcast doesn't do that, is it at all possible to add that capability?

And what did they mean by getting other companies to make chips for the Dreamcast? Is that for add-ons, or upgrades, or did the journalists just screw up?

Set-Top-Box and Game Console competitors

[billstewart]

Lots of people want to provide the one fast box that controls lots of other things in your home. The cable TV industry wants to provide a set-top box that not only controls your TV, but gets to provide other services to your home, and there are all kinds of appallingly ugly standards trying to evolve for splitting up spectrum to piggyback data on digital TV. CableLabs has pointers to some of them. The cable modem people (who overlap a bit with cable TV, but aren't the same thing) and the DSL people want to provide IP connectivity to your house, and use it to not only take over telephony but also provide broadcast television. Some of the game console people just want to sell you games, but Sony's organization that does games understands that it's selling the fastest computer in most people's houses, and selling modems to do interactive gaming, and therefore they can do lots of cool stuff with it, like make all the other Sony electronics entertainment equipment talk to it. Of course, the PC people want to control everything also, and they overlap a bit with the cablemodem/dsl folks, but you've still got to decide which one gets to run the phones once we replace the phone company. Oh, yeah, then there's satellite - it's a bit more limited, and needs a modem uplink, but they've been including TiVo-like stuff lately as well as offering one-way data. Anybody else trying to take over the world*?

*World Domination is a trademark of that innocent-looking penguin...

Smoke and/or Mirrors

[swdunlop]

Okay, I've been trying to wrap my head around this for a little while now, and I still can't come up with a reason /why/ some company would want to license and manufacture Dreamcast or PS2-based equipment that would wind up competing with the 'Vanilla' DC or PS2 consoles.

Realize that both the DC and the PS2 are sold at a loss, because Sega and Sony makes their money off a royalty on software sold for the systems. This makes the consoles cheap and palatable by Joe Consumer, so he'll buy one, get hooked, and buy a ton of software at a slightly inflated price. Give them the razor, sell the blades.

Now, it would be ludicrous for another company to try to sell something in the same market space as the DC or PS2, based on the DC or PS2 firmware, because they don't have that software royalty coming in. They'd have to manufacture a DC or PS2 clone, and sell it for more money, probably bundling in a few features as justification to Joe Consumer.

This just seems like one of those worthless Public Relations gestures on the behalf of Sony and Sega, much like many recent companies releasing software as 'Open Source.'

Just a technical nit:

[seebs]

That's 3DO, not 3D0. You know, audio, video, threedeo.

Anyway, the killer mistake in 3DO's setup was that the companies they licensed to all tried to make money on hardware. You can't make money selling consoles, but you can, possibly, make money licensing games for them. So, Panasonic (for instance) had no incentive to price their 3DO units competitively. End result, the system didn't get the mass market acceptance it needed.

Both Sony and Sega are addressing that; they are, themselves, providing units at reasonable costs. This way, if someone else wants to get into the market, the price won't become too high for consumers to pick up a system.

I really miss the 3DO; to this day, I have never seen another system which had games with the kind of depth they tended to favor. 3DO games were often dissed for being "slow" when they were actually "deep". (e.g., Need For Speed on the 3DO was an actual car sim, rather than a racing game. I tried NFS for the PC once, and in "simulation" mode you could hit a wall at 40-50mph and expect to keep driving.)

(Curiously, the company is still around, and actually doing very well; they sold their hardware division for about $100M, bought New World Computing, and now have a bunch of fairly successful brands.)

Disclaimer: I own a couple of 3DO console systems, and several of their games, and some of their stock. I'm a big fan.

24/7

[KFury]

So this paves the way for my Transmeta Dreamcast with bluetooth controllers and an ethernet connection, right?

Pair that with my glasstrons, 802.11 wireless card, and the optional belt-clip and I'll never have to leave the fantasy world again!

It's thinking...
...so you can stop

Kevin Fox

Re:24/7

[cybrthng]

Actually the Ethernet card for the DC was released in Japan and coming stateside shortly and the new Browser 3.0 will have a full JDK included as well so you can use the DC to run Java Applications.

So if you get huge ass belt clip, your already there!

Re:Dreamcast Zealots attack...

[cybrthng]

Dude, get your head out of your ass. The DC has more memory, easier programmability (which makes or breaks ship dates on games and quality). Smaller footprint, cooler CPU, and more software. The DC has high speed game ports along with VMU's that PS2 outright stole.

Along with a few hundred titles, a network card, 64 meg vmu with MP3 playback, a full web browser, a full JDK kit and 4 gaming ports (who was on crack and only stuck 2 ports on a console???).

Its also funny how even the hardline PS2'ers at IGN wrote the following article.

http://ps2.ign.com/news/20660.html

So if you had graduated school and learned how to think for yourself you would understand how DC is far superior competition then your ineferior mind can contemplate.

Re:What's so special about the Dreamcast?

[cybrthng]

And the PS2 is just an overly hyped DVD player in a new case. Whats the difference? The PS2 video chip doesn't handle all of the real graphics features that the market demans. Sure you get polygons up the ass but with anti aliasing the figure gets works. And the Suzuki Yokimoto or whatever developers are pumping 5 million frams a second out for F355 and Shenmue.

Plus the GDROM gurantees game sales. You can't copy them unless you spend a few grand on a developer station and if you do that you may as well buy the dc library and still save a buck.

The DreamCast *IS* the first full fledged out of the box performance gaming console. It has been out for two years by the time the PS2 hits the US market and it has yet to reach its full potential.

So tell me why i should plop down 300 bucks for a console that plays dvds (which i already own a DVD player with full digital outputs, ac3 and dts support..) and only has 2 controller ports and a bunch of games i already play on my dc?

The DC is certified for Dolby Digital Playback, has Mp3 Supports, Web Browser, Network/Modem support, FOUR PLAYER support, Excellent Graphics, Excellent and AFFORDABLE games and most of all UNIQUE games.

Another "Blinded" PS2'er.

[cybrthng]

This article perfectly sums up the hype around the PS2.

http://ps2.ign.com/news/20660.html

Here is a refresher on the DC Hardware.

http://ningendo.emulationzone.org/consolewars/dc.h tml

Also new and announced and currently shipping peripherals are:

Zip Disk

64 Meg VMU w/mp3 playback

JDK

Web Browser - Updated and revised regularly

Network Card - Got DSL/Cable - replace modem with NIC Card

Dolby Digital Music - Certified

Keyboard

Mouse

GAMES

Oh yeah, its also shipping and can be bough for $0.00 if you know how to shop.

Don't forget with a DC you can play 4 other friends, and online gaming is around the corner.

The PS2 is overly glorified DVD player and a SHITTY one at that. Why would i give up a great Sony DVD 550D Player? I don't think the PS2 offers a 10th the amount of features any real av tech would want. DTS, AC3? Pan n Scan, Frame by frame?

As Much As I Love My Dreamcast...

[tealover]

Sega just doesn't have the panache of a Sony enabled device. Sony is a known brandname that right or wrong is equated with quality. Right now Sega is equated with a broken down dog. I hope Sega gets its act together because I believe the Dreamcast is a great console. The PS2, right now, is nothing more than hype. The problem Sega is facing is their past. They killed the Saturn and pissed off a lot of people. Sometimes you don't get a second chance.