Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the duck-and-cover dept.
tiny69 noted that Slackware has
announced 7.1 is out of beta and now officially the Real Deal.
Here's the ChangeLog and a mirror. 2.2.16 Kernel, Gnome 1.2, and others. Remember back when everyone ran Slack 'cuz thats all there really was?
In February, i *finally* obtained a box to play with Linux on - an old 486/50 with a 1.2GB hdd. The big thing that finally make me go with Slackware is the the size of the installation. The default Red Hat installation would have completely crammed my hdd. With slackware, though, they put together a package of really good, useful software, and fit it into a ~600mb installation. For running on low-end hardware, it was awefully nice to get such a powerful yet efficently assembled distro.
Plus, i mean, "Slackware"... that just sounds cool. =^) -legolas
i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...
However, I have run into Slack users and they have stated that most hard core linux users run Slack. I am curious as to what would be the advantages of Slack over Debian, and visa versa.
No, serious. I would have expected more hard core Linux users to install their system themselves. Is there something that is too hard to do yourself that prevents LFS from becoming as popular as e.g. Slackware?
I've been running slackware for several years now, and am currently running it on my Compaq Presario 1800T Laptop
I've been running Slackware 7 with the 2.4.0-test series of kernels and have generally had good results with it.
One thing I don't like about Slackware though is that it's never had much of a concept of upgrading from a previous version, and so won't automatically delete files it is replacing during an upgrade. This once resulted in filling my root partition during an upgrade and made my machine unbootable.
For that reason I've gotten Debian to use on the server I'm building. But I expect I'll put 7.1 on my laptop.
Maybe because binary works better for some things? Maybe because a binary file is easier to edit from a program than a text file? Just because it is the way windows does it, doesn't mean its not the best way.
-- A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
The problem with doing that for the RPM database is two fold. 1) RPM is complex enough already. Adding the extra overhead of having to write to a text database makes it more complex than I'm willing to put up with. (More complexity==more bugs) 2) The RPM database doesn't need to be user editable. Anything that you can do with a text file, you can do through RPM. Additionally, if the database gets corrupted, the average RPM user will not know how to fix it anyway. The problem is that RPM was aimed at you. While it is a decent package format, it wasn't meant for the advanced user when it was designed.
-- A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Re:Longtime slackware user
by
iCEBaLM
·
· Score: 2
One thing I don't like about Slackware though is that it's never had much of a concept of upgrading from a previous version, and so won't automatically delete files it is replacing during an upgrade. This once resulted in filling my root partition during an upgrade and made my machine unbootable.
Thats why you remove the packages you're about to upgrade first...
> Maybe because binary works better for some things?
Yes, it does. Graphic images for instance, are usually best not formatted in ASCII:) But I don't think this is an example of one of those things.
> Maybe because a binary file is easier to edit from a program than a text file?
Making the software use text files is a little harder for the programmer, but only has to be done once.
Making the user edit binary files is very, very much harder, and if often impossible in practice. And it often has to be done over and over again in the life of a system. Why else do you think files like resolv.conf and inittab are human readable?
Anything that takes administrative control of your system away from you and gives it over to unreadable binary files and over-complex software (hello, RPM) is a Bad Thing (tm).
It may have been. SLS also used gzipped tar files to distribute if I recall correctly. It wasn't terribly difficult to install, for such an early release. I remember building an entire system with a C++ compiler from 7 diskettes. It was rock solid too. I used my SLS system from 1993 to 1996, doing upgrades of the compiler, libraries, kernel, X, etc. by hand. That's the best way to learn how a system works.
I sometimes get the impression that where debian attracts politically hard-core users, slackware attracts kinda "history-hard-core" users. The ones that really want to run an old mainframe and really don't care what the licence is...
'Course, I could be dead wrong.
BTW, I do use slackware. Dunno why. Redhat irritates me, and I haven't tried Debian yet. I will someday. Maybe I'll swich, and maybe not...
"I'd say most slackware users' systems arent too similar to the base install."
Aside from the odd manually compiled Apache, or other hotfix upgrade to deal with a security issues, most Slackware systems (IMO) are just the base + whatever the person downloaded from freshmeat.
My workstation setup is Slackware 7 + Gnome 1.2 packages + a few things from freshmeat (gnapster, xmms, etc). I'm also not running a "stock" kernel (testing 2.2.17pre6 here). The two servers powering my personal domain are fairly "stock" Slackware systens, aside from configuration tweaks, some replaced or upgraded daemons, and the odd kernel upgrade to deal with an issue (such as the TCP locking problem recently squashed in the 2.2.17 pres).
If you consider the "base" system to be only what comes with it package wise (a reasonable view consider Debian seems to have millions of packages in deb format), then you're correct. But if you consider that most people don't replace anything beyond the kernel, and that they probably just add some userland software, I'd say you're wrong. ---
-- -- Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I have three machines which run Linux (two 24/7, one whenever my wife gets sick of Windows for a while). It's very convenient to throw RH on a box, suck down packages I want from my locally-packaged RPM repository, and have a working system.
Now, I've been using Linux since 1994, had the obligatory completely-replaced Slackware system, rebuilt bootdisks to work on wonky laptops, and was putting together my own distribution at one time. That level of tinkering can be very interesting, but right now I want to spend my time in different ways. That's all.
PHP error indicates a server-side error. I have used (and do use) Lynx on the Slackware site (ditto for/., and K5, etc). I just tried it now, and I could read things fine. Maybe it was just some cosmic rays:) ---
-- -- Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
"Um, I was under the impression that if you installed a library from source, then tried to install another package that depends on that library, RPM wouldn't work and you'd have to do everything from source."
'rpm --nodeps packagename.rpm ' works just fine when you have a library rpm doesn't know about.
Adam
Because I don't feel like I've sold out...
by
devphil
·
· Score: 2
...when I use Slackware. The other distros feel heavily commercialized to me. It's not that I think Debian is/bad/; I like it too. Both of them certainly irritate me a lot less than RedHat.
-- You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Re:We all remember slashdot..
by
finkployd
·
· Score: 2
Yes, Slackware wasn't as good as the latest distros are today, but it has come a long way since it was the only game in town and carved out it's own nitch.
I suggest you try it again, it has a packaging system, nice BSD style rc scripts and a nice 'no bull' install.
"And how can this be? For he is the..."
...Kwisatz Haderach
That was fun, give us another one:)
Re:Bring the hammer down on *nix.
by
legoboy
·
· Score: 2
Uhh... Innovating means no such thing. Innovation refers to building on top of foundations, and refining methods/techniques.
Invention is advancement by giant leaps, the favoured method in the US. Innovation is advancement via baby steps. Japan has been doing this since the Second World War.
What kind of car do you drive? What brand is your tv? Your VCR? Your stereo?
I'd be shocked if more than two of the above were made by an American company. Most people would have zero. I know that this wasn't your point, but you needed correcting.
Microsoft does make billions by innovating. Is Office 2000 really so much better than Office 97 (7, 6, etc) to be worth $US 800 for the upgrade, $1400 for the full version? But if people will pay for it...
------
-- If a tree falls on an anonymous coward yelling 'first post' in the forest, does anybody hear?
Re:It is appropriate to hold off on 2.4 kernel
by
Surak
·
· Score: 2
And remember some wisdom a customer passed to me when I was working tech support in a bygone era: Don't buy version 1.0 of anything.
Its not version 1.0, its version 2.4. What cave have you been hiding in?:)
"why on earth you would go back to slack is beyond me.. "
The benefits of Slackware Linux are many:
Stable out of the box.
Easy to configure (for the average Unix guy).
Rarely has software which contains security holes.
BSD style init scripts
No RPM locking dependancy. If there's an issue, you can upgrade from source quickly.
You might also want to read about why Kuro5hin.org runs Slackware (article written by me, so this is a bit of self-promotion:)).
If you'd grown up on it, or come from another Unix-alike (such as OpenBSD, etc), you'd find Slackware as comfortable and well fitting as a very nice pair of boxer shorts. Whereas I find something like Red Hat restrictive and holey (like very old briefs which haven't been taken care of). Why anyone would run Red Hat (or derivatives), or even Debian, is "beyond me"...
To each their own. ---
-- -- Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I'd think that's true of virtually all Linux distributions - some are even easy to configure for non-Unix guys.
BSD style init scripts
Why would you call that an advantage? SysV init scripts are much less of a pain when you need to add some service automatically...
No RPM locking dependancy
No distribution has that - you can just take Red Hat, Debian, or whatever and compile stuff from source. All you lose when doing that without doing it properly is dependency checking for other packages that depend on the stuff you installed from source.
-- This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
It's a great time for a new version!
by
Tumbleweed
·
· Score: 3
Now is a great time for it - get a nice stable version out there before all hell breaks loose. Also, I believe Patrick is working on a new installer, etc, for the next major revision of Slackware, so there's a lot more that'll be new in v8 (or whatever version it is) than 'just' a new kernel. At least, that's the impression I get.
Better than yet another distribution, I find the Linux from Scratch project quite interesting...
Re:It's a great time for a new version!
by
PurpleBob
·
· Score: 2
I tried Linux From Scratch. It was a fun learning experience - I got it to the point where I could run TinyFugue. But after a while of trying to actually USE that system, and failed attempts to set up sendmail and X, I gave up and installed debian on that partition. -- No more e-mail address game - see my user info. Time for revenge.
-- Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
It is appropriate to hold off on 2.4 kernel
by
goingware
·
· Score: 4
A lot of people are griping about how SlackWare 7.1 is being released just before kernel 2.4.0 is.
I think it is important to understand that a widely used distribution should not use a kernel until it has been used in widespread production for several months.
Anyone who knows what they are doing can download the kernel source and compile it themselves. I've been using the kernel 2.4.0-testX-acX series on my Slackware 7 installation for some time now, and it works well.
But there is a huge number of combinations of configurations out in the world, and there really is no way that the kernel can be adequately tested by the people who presently are testing it.
Once the 2.4.0 final kernel is released a lot more people will download and compile it than have been using it yet, and guess what? Bugs will be found.
That's why we have minor releases.
But a commercial distribution gets used by a lot of people who do not want to be testers, or would not be competent to diagnose their own systems if there was a problem.
You may say that Slackware is for the hardcore sorts (does that make me one? Gee, but I write MacOS GUI code for a living!.) but the fact is a lot of people will get Slackware for their very first experience with Linux just because they see it on a store shelf somewhere and decide to try it out.
Give Patrick a break.
And remember some wisdom a customer passed to me when I was working tech support in a bygone era: Don't buy version 1.0 of anything.
The Linux PAM implementation code waffles in quality between horrible to ungodly.
Patrick has stated this is the reason for not including it. Go read the Slackware devel forums and post if you want new packages. A fellow posted asking for sgml tools, I seconded, and a package appeard in contrib within 24 hours. Ditto for when I found that the ypnis tools were missing a binary, the upgraded tcpip2.tgz came within a few hours.
Slackware is about quality, tested code, not features (that's Red Hat).
Feel free to write a *clean* version of PAM for Linux. I'd love to see one, and I'm sure Pat would toss it into Slackware:) ---
-- -- Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Re:I Didn't Run Slackware...
by
LLatson
·
· Score: 2
Does anyone remember when, while installing, you couldn't touch any keys on the keyboard because it would corrupt the files it was writing to disk? Ah, the good old days!
Ah, but the real challenge of the job was that part of the MacOS test suite was to try it out with a few hundred application programs.
Sometimes it happened that an app would fail on a new system build - and then it would come to me.
Without source code to the app and usually no cooperation from the vendor, I'd use MacsBug to determine whether the problem was a real new bug in the system, or an old latent bug in the third party app that we just happened to stimulate.
I could tell some stories but probably shouldn't. More than a few developers were suprised to get calls from me detailing how they should fix their old code.
Re:Has Slashdot become too political?
by
PurpleBob
·
· Score: 2
Insightful?! Who the hell did that? <p> I'm sorry, should he have listed every single package that was in the system? You're the one being political, or else you wouldn't have cared which packages he listed. <p> Anyway, I'm sure that KDE will get talked about on Slashdot when it comes up with a new stable version. 1.91 isn't. -- No more e-mail address game - see my user info. Time for revenge.
You are mixing up your facts big time; the 'do not edit' is usually put in files which are edited by a proces. For example; editing RedHat's/etc/issue doesn't help you out one bit because its generated from/etc/rc.d/rc.local.
No I'm not. I'm absolutely 100% factually correct. The SuSe/etc/resolv.conf contains the line:
# PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
> The 'do not edit' is usually put in files which are edited by a process
Yes, that's right. That's what I'm complaining about. These files are designed to be edited by a system administrator. What's more, if you learn how to configure DNS by editing resolv.conf, that knowledge will stand you in good stead on BSD, Solaris, AIX, Dynix etc etc etc. Learning how to do it with yast will be of precisely no use to you.
I don't mind processes altering these files where appropriate; but if they're written in such a way that they can't cope with changes made by the system administrator, they are broken.
For those wanting to use linux on their system at home or at work where they (think) they don't have to worry about software licences, use redhat or corel linux. For anybody who wants to learn linux, they start with slackware. Read manpages, join irc channels and ask questions, avoid the installpkg command whenever possible... compile everything yourself. Don't know how? Read the manpages.
Rules to Live By:
Have an hour free? rm -rf/* as root to see what it does.
Oops, did that hurt the system? Go through the installation again. Familliarize yourself with the purpose of all the packages.
If it can be done in windows, it can be done better in linux. Do it. Prove to the world there is hope after microsoft.
freshmeat.net is your friend
It dosen't matter if you need to or not, just do it. It's perfectly normal to have several unfinished projects going at any given time.
Compile it your own damn self.
Good things come with time. I installed slackware using floppy disks made on a windows system with a 28.8 modem.
The real benefit of running a slackware system is that the system you are running is yours. There is no generic install, you can take pride in your accomplishments. One thing that slackware has accidentally taught me over the years is how to solve problems as they arise... a real life skill. Cheers to Patrick for keeping slackware the distro it was meant to be. =)
I used slack from version 2 to 3, then switched to debian because someone where I was working recommended it. I've not looked back.
If you use packaging systems, debian is better, however, if you want to make everything from source, just do a minimal slack install, and make your own distribution.
Slack is a good place to get parts for a distribution, I'd say most slackware users' systems arent too similar to the base install.
Well I tried to install debian.. but the install really wasn't as intuitive. Maybe because I've been using Slack since the 3.0 series, and I'm so used to the method of install now. But all in all, if you know what you're doing Slackware might very well be your best choice for a server or even a desktop. I've heard about apt, getting stuff from ftp sites etc to update stuff, kinda like the cvsupd, on freebsd.. which sounds really nifty. If slack had something like that.. it would make my life soooo much easier. I've timed myself, I can get a slackware installation customized to my needs, with X. up and running from scratch in about 25 minutes. The debian install I spent a lot of time figuring out all the options etc it gave me. If for somereason slackware went stagnant and no new releases were planned, I'd prolly switch to debian..but so far Patrick's been kickin ass, and thanks a lot to the slack team. PS: I've tried redhat.. 4 times.. I just keep goin back to slack.. too bad there's no Slack Certified Engineer:).. but I guess the LPI's linux certification is good.
Because (for instance), it has an/etc/resolv.conf which does NOT contain the line: # PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE..as in SuSe (and similar annoyances in RedHat). Anything that doesn't let you edit your own/etc files (or if you do, you can never ever run the distro's configuration tools ever again...) just plain sucks. Slackware forever!
> it will even explain to you why some files have a "do not edit" header. But it's not because you can't edit'm manually.
Go on then, I'll bite.
Why do they have a "DO NOT EDIT" header if it's not because you can't edit them?
Sure, you can load them in to vi and make any changes you want. But next time you do anything even vaguely network related in yast, your changes will be lost. That's what I mean by "you can't edit them". And that's why the files say "DO NOT EDIT".
Of course, you could just never use yast again. That's pretty much what I do.
Re:Slack vs Debian
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2
Slackware is not into all this user-friendly BS that is attracting the Windoze swine. Debian *was* cool until the packaging system got like totally fucking out of countrol and tried to do every fucking thing for you. Basically, Slackware is the only dist. left if you call yourself a hacker. Most of the hardcore Linux users have given up Linux actually. They've moved onto better quality systems like FreeBSD and Solaris. Personally, I use Solaris and it owns the fuck out of Linux, the non-conforming piece of shit (not even "real" UNIX anyway).
It's not done uploading - watch this file
by
goingware
·
· Score: 3
If you're wondering where the new version is, watch for the file THIS_ISNT_DONE_UPLOADING at slackware-current to disappear.
There's a note in the file that says it will disappear when the upload is done. Apparently the Slashdot article got posted when the release was announced, but the loading of the files is still in progress!
Bring the hammer down on *nix.
by
SoulStriker
·
· Score: 2
Looking through the changelog for this release, it occurred to me that slackwear is simply another *nix release candidate that clears a few more problems. I didn't see anything in the changelog that made me say, "By god, I have to have that."
These *nix clones are starting to remind me of the hardware store. You walk into your local hardware store and move directly towards the hammer section. As you step down the aisle you salivate at the big hammers, fiddle with the tiny hammers, and practice with the hammers that fit you best.
The concept of the hammer has been around since our earliest days. The concept of the Operating System has equally matured. These two have very similar conceptual models.
Your big hammer is the microsoft OS, dominating the field. The tiny hammers are your experimental operating systems that you keep a keen eye out for on FreshMeat. Those hammers that fit you so well? You know what they are.
These releases of OS are losing momentum, because Microsoft is actually doing something that no other Open Source project seems to be able to pull off. Masked Innovation.
Microsoft is building the powered jackhammer while the unix community debates and flames each other over balsa or oak. You'll always use your trusty hammer-
Slashdot Mirror
Plus, i mean, "Slackware"... that just sounds cool. =^)
-legolas
i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...
However, I have run into Slack users and they have stated that most hard core linux users run Slack. I am curious as to what would be the advantages of Slack over Debian, and visa versa.
Hard core Linux users run Linux From Scratch :-P
No, serious. I would have expected more hard core Linux users to install their system themselves. Is there something that is too hard to do yourself that prevents LFS from becoming as popular as e.g. Slackware?
Monkey sense
SysV init scripts are much less of a pain when you need to add some service automatically...
How frequent are your service changes that you need to be able to do this automatically? I'm really confused as to your whole point here.
"Hang on, it's Three O'Clock, time to change runlevels again..."
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I've been running Slackware 7 with the 2.4.0-test series of kernels and have generally had good results with it.
One thing I don't like about Slackware though is that it's never had much of a concept of upgrading from a previous version, and so won't automatically delete files it is replacing during an upgrade. This once resulted in filling my root partition during an upgrade and made my machine unbootable.
For that reason I've gotten Debian to use on the server I'm building. But I expect I'll put 7.1 on my laptop.
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
It may have been. SLS also used gzipped tar files to distribute if I recall correctly. It wasn't terribly difficult to install, for such an early release. I remember building an entire system with a C++ compiler from 7 diskettes. It was rock solid too. I used my SLS system from 1993 to 1996, doing upgrades of the compiler, libraries, kernel, X, etc. by hand. That's the best way to learn how a system works.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
'Course, I could be dead wrong.
BTW, I do use slackware. Dunno why. Redhat irritates me, and I haven't tried Debian yet. I will someday. Maybe I'll swich, and maybe not...
"I'd say most slackware users' systems arent too similar to the base install."
Aside from the odd manually compiled Apache, or other hotfix upgrade to deal with a security issues, most Slackware systems (IMO) are just the base + whatever the person downloaded from freshmeat.
My workstation setup is Slackware 7 + Gnome 1.2 packages + a few things from freshmeat (gnapster, xmms, etc). I'm also not running a "stock" kernel (testing 2.2.17pre6 here). The two servers powering my personal domain are fairly "stock" Slackware systens, aside from configuration tweaks, some replaced or upgraded daemons, and the odd kernel upgrade to deal with an issue (such as the TCP locking problem recently squashed in the 2.2.17 pres).
If you consider the "base" system to be only what comes with it package wise (a reasonable view consider Debian seems to have millions of packages in deb format), then you're correct. But if you consider that most people don't replace anything beyond the kernel, and that they probably just add some userland software, I'd say you're wrong.
---
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I have three machines which run Linux (two 24/7, one whenever my wife gets sick of Windows for a while). It's very convenient to throw RH on a box, suck down packages I want from my locally-packaged RPM repository, and have a working system.
Now, I've been using Linux since 1994, had the obligatory completely-replaced Slackware system, rebuilt bootdisks to work on wonky laptops, and was putting together my own distribution at one time. That level of tinkering can be very interesting, but right now I want to spend my time in different ways. That's all.
PHP error indicates a server-side error. I have used (and do use) Lynx on the Slackware site (ditto for /., and K5, etc). I just tried it now, and I could read things fine. Maybe it was just some cosmic rays :)
---
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
"Um, I was under the impression that if you installed a library from source, then tried to install another package that depends on that library, RPM wouldn't work and you'd have to do everything from source."
'rpm --nodeps packagename.rpm ' works just fine when you have a library rpm doesn't know about.
Adam
...when I use Slackware. The other distros feel heavily commercialized to me. It's not that I think Debian is /bad/; I like it too. Both of them certainly irritate me a lot less than RedHat.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Yes, Slackware wasn't as good as the latest distros are today, but it has come a long way since it was the only game in town and carved out it's own nitch.
..."
:)
I suggest you try it again, it has a packaging system, nice BSD style rc scripts and a nice 'no bull' install.
"And how can this be? For he is the
...Kwisatz Haderach
That was fun, give us another one
Uhh... Innovating means no such thing. Innovation refers to building on top of foundations, and refining methods/techniques.
Invention is advancement by giant leaps, the favoured method in the US. Innovation is advancement via baby steps. Japan has been doing this since the Second World War.
What kind of car do you drive?
What brand is your tv?
Your VCR?
Your stereo?
I'd be shocked if more than two of the above were made by an American company. Most people would have zero. I know that this wasn't your point, but you needed correcting.
Microsoft does make billions by innovating. Is Office 2000 really so much better than Office 97 (7, 6, etc) to be worth $US 800 for the upgrade, $1400 for the full version? But if people will pay for it...
------
If a tree falls on an anonymous coward yelling 'first post' in the forest, does anybody hear?
And remember some wisdom a customer passed to me when I was working tech support in a bygone era: Don't buy version 1.0 of anything.
:)
Its not version 1.0, its version 2.4. What cave have you been hiding in?
My journal has hot
Compared to LSL (or was it SLS?) and MCC, slackware was much more solid.
Yes.. everything had to be done by hand.
So.. slackware was where you really learned what went where, and that anything can really go anywhere. You had to get really familiar with it.
Now, of course, once you know such things.. why on earth you would go back to slack is beyond me..
Now is a great time for it - get a nice stable version out there before all hell breaks loose. Also, I believe Patrick is working on a new installer, etc, for the next major revision of Slackware, so there's a lot more that'll be new in v8 (or whatever version it is) than 'just' a new kernel. At least, that's the impression I get.
Better than yet another distribution, I find the Linux from Scratch project quite interesting...
I think it is important to understand that a widely used distribution should not use a kernel until it has been used in widespread production for several months.
Anyone who knows what they are doing can download the kernel source and compile it themselves. I've been using the kernel 2.4.0-testX-acX series on my Slackware 7 installation for some time now, and it works well.
But there is a huge number of combinations of configurations out in the world, and there really is no way that the kernel can be adequately tested by the people who presently are testing it.
Once the 2.4.0 final kernel is released a lot more people will download and compile it than have been using it yet, and guess what? Bugs will be found.
That's why we have minor releases.
But a commercial distribution gets used by a lot of people who do not want to be testers, or would not be competent to diagnose their own systems if there was a problem.
You may say that Slackware is for the hardcore sorts (does that make me one? Gee, but I write MacOS GUI code for a living!.) but the fact is a lot of people will get Slackware for their very first experience with Linux just because they see it on a store shelf somewhere and decide to try it out.
Give Patrick a break.
And remember some wisdom a customer passed to me when I was working tech support in a bygone era: Don't buy version 1.0 of anything.
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
We get a "Damn! I just finished downloading an older version!" rant every single time a GNU/Linux distribution update is announced on /.
Will I retire or break 10K?
The Linux PAM implementation code waffles in quality between horrible to ungodly.
:)
Patrick has stated this is the reason for not including it. Go read the Slackware devel forums and post if you want new packages. A fellow posted asking for sgml tools, I seconded, and a package appeard in contrib within 24 hours. Ditto for when I found that the ypnis tools were missing a binary, the upgraded tcpip2.tgz came within a few hours.
Slackware is about quality, tested code, not features (that's Red Hat).
Feel free to write a *clean* version of PAM for Linux. I'd love to see one, and I'm sure Pat would toss it into Slackware
---
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Does anyone remember when, while installing, you couldn't touch any keys on the keyboard because it would corrupt the files it was writing to disk? Ah, the good old days!
LL
"If you are falling, dive." -Joseph Campbell
Sometimes it happened that an app would fail on a new system build - and then it would come to me.
Without source code to the app and usually no cooperation from the vendor, I'd use MacsBug to determine whether the problem was a real new bug in the system, or an old latent bug in the third party app that we just happened to stimulate.
I could tell some stories but probably shouldn't. More than a few developers were suprised to get calls from me detailing how they should fix their old code.
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
Insightful?! Who the hell did that?
<p>
I'm sorry, should he have listed every single package that was in the system? You're the one being political, or else you wouldn't have cared which packages he listed.
<p>
Anyway, I'm sure that KDE will get talked about on Slashdot when it comes up with a new stable version. 1.91 isn't.
--
No more e-mail address game - see my user info. Time for revenge.
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
You are mixing up your facts big time; the 'do not edit' is usually put in files which are edited by a proces. For example; editing RedHat's /etc/issue doesn't help you out one bit because its generated from /etc/rc.d/rc.local.
No I'm not. I'm absolutely 100% factually correct. The SuSe /etc/resolv.conf contains the line:
# PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
> The 'do not edit' is usually put in files which are edited by a process
Yes, that's right. That's what I'm complaining about. These files are designed to be edited by a system administrator. What's more, if you learn how to configure DNS by editing resolv.conf, that knowledge will stand you in good stead on BSD, Solaris, AIX, Dynix etc etc etc. Learning how to do it with yast will be of precisely no use to you.
I don't mind processes altering these files where appropriate; but if they're written in such a way that they can't cope with changes made by the system administrator, they are broken.
Rules to Live By:
- Have an hour free? rm -rf
/* as root to see what it does. - Oops, did that hurt the system? Go through the installation again. Familliarize yourself with the purpose of all the packages.
- If it can be done in windows, it can be done better in linux. Do it. Prove to the world there is hope after microsoft.
- freshmeat.net is your friend
- It dosen't matter if you need to or not, just do it. It's perfectly normal to have several unfinished projects going at any given time.
- Compile it your own damn self.
- Good things come with time. I installed slackware using floppy disks made on a windows system with a 28.8 modem.
The real benefit of running a slackware system is that the system you are running is yours. There is no generic install, you can take pride in your accomplishments. One thing that slackware has accidentally taught me over the years is how to solve problems as they arise... a real life skill. Cheers to Patrick for keeping slackware the distro it was meant to be. =)I used slack from version 2 to 3, then switched to debian because someone where I was working recommended it. I've not looked back.
If you use packaging systems, debian is better, however, if you want to make everything from source, just do a minimal slack install, and make your own distribution.
Slack is a good place to get parts for a distribution, I'd say most slackware users' systems arent too similar to the base install.
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
Well I tried to install debian.. but the install really wasn't as intuitive. Maybe because I've been using Slack since the 3.0 series, and I'm so used to the method of install now. But all in all, if you know what you're doing Slackware might very well be your best choice for a server or even a desktop. I've heard about apt, getting stuff from ftp sites etc to update stuff, kinda like the cvsupd, on freebsd.. which sounds really nifty. If slack had something like that.. it would make my life soooo much easier. I've timed myself, I can get a slackware installation customized to my needs, with X. up and running from scratch in about 25 minutes. The debian install I spent a lot of time figuring out all the options etc it gave me. If for somereason slackware went stagnant and no new releases were planned, I'd prolly switch to debian..but so far Patrick's been kickin ass, and thanks a lot to the slack team. PS: I've tried redhat.. 4 times.. I just keep goin back to slack.. too bad there's no Slack Certified Engineer :).. but I guess the LPI's linux certification is good.
Because (for instance), it has an /etc/resolv.conf which does NOT contain the line: # PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE ..as in SuSe (and similar annoyances in RedHat). Anything that doesn't let you edit your own /etc files (or if you do, you can never ever run the distro's configuration tools ever again...) just plain sucks. Slackware forever!
Slackware is not into all this user-friendly BS that is attracting the Windoze swine. Debian *was* cool until the packaging system got like totally fucking out of countrol and tried to do every fucking thing for you. Basically, Slackware is the only dist. left if you call yourself a hacker. Most of the hardcore Linux users have given up Linux actually. They've moved onto better quality systems like FreeBSD and Solaris. Personally, I use Solaris and it owns the fuck out of Linux, the non-conforming piece of shit (not even "real" UNIX anyway).
There's a note in the file that says it will disappear when the upload is done. Apparently the Slashdot article got posted when the release was announced, but the loading of the files is still in progress!
Eagerly,
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
Looking through the changelog for this release, it occurred to me that slackwear is simply another *nix release candidate that clears a few more problems. I didn't see anything in the changelog that made me say, "By god, I have to have that."
These *nix clones are starting to remind me of the hardware store. You walk into your local hardware store and move directly towards the hammer section. As you step down the aisle you salivate at the big hammers, fiddle with the tiny hammers, and practice with the hammers that fit you best.
The concept of the hammer has been around since our earliest days. The concept of the Operating System has equally matured. These two have very similar conceptual models.
Your big hammer is the microsoft OS, dominating the field. The tiny hammers are your experimental operating systems that you keep a keen eye out for on FreshMeat. Those hammers that fit you so well? You know what they are.
These releases of OS are losing momentum, because Microsoft is actually doing something that no other Open Source project seems to be able to pull off. Masked Innovation.
Microsoft is building the powered jackhammer while the unix community debates and flames each other over balsa or oak. You'll always use your trusty hammer-
-until it breaks.
SoulStriker
SoulStriker
Am I wrong? Prove it.