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Ask 'Ian' From Debian
Ian Murdock started the Debian Project in 1993 and was its leader until 1996. Now he's president and CEO of Progeny Linux Systems, a company working on a Debian-based system called Linux NOW. (Bruce Perens is chairman of the company's board of directors, so the place is obviously as Debian as a commercial entity can get.) Please post your questions for Ian below. We'll forward 10 of the highest-moderated questions to him by e-mail and run his replies as soon as he gets them back to us.
Is NOW based on current work such as MOSIX, or will it be a new system entirely?
If it is new, will it be heterogeneous?
- If so, how would it handle process sharing?
- Are you going to lay dynamic process scheduling over some sort of heterogenous message passing system?
- Or similarly, but more simply, are you building a preemptive process distribution without dynamic scheduling? (Gathering data from network when finished.)
Is it going to be compatible with message passing libraries, so that you can still run PVM/MPI programs in the background?Is it going to have a web interface such as Globus and be net distributed?
If it is none of the above, then will it require recompilation to be utilized?
Will it be fully optimized to use resources without hand tuning and using PVM/MPI?
Thanks,
CH
How is it tied? Debian GNU/Hurd is just another port of Debian (albeit to a different kernel, rather than a different processor).
Also, people seem to regard the Debian project as a single entity making this type of decision. That is at best a misleading view. Debian is the sum of hundreds of volunteers. Some of those are interested in porting to the Hurd; a lot aren't. That doesn't mean "Debian" thinks its future is or isn't in the Hurd.
I love Debian and it is my preferred distro. But it takes forever to get out a stable version. By the time it is released I must move to the unstable branch to be able to run it on my computer. Is something done to address this problem?
now that we've interviewed ian of the debian project, will we get to interview deb of the debian project?
What's going on is some Debian people are working on a port to the Hurd. There isn't actually a commitment to ultimately throw out GNU/Linux for GNU/Hurd as the basis for Debian; rather, these are two Debian OS projects progressing at the same time, with the GNU/Hurd part moving slower right now [because there are few workers and they are primarily adapting to changes in the GNU/Linux Debian].
These aren't mutually exclusive projects in any way. What I was thinking of when I posted was the long term intention of the GNU to move all its attention over to the Hurd as its primary platform.
Sorry folks.
If taking the API of UNIX and copying the API, using the same set of commands, using the same compilers and other userspace applications that unix uses doesn't make you unix, then WHAT EXACTLY are you? Ashamed of your proud UNIX roots?
"Unix" is a registered trademark of (I think) the XOpen Group. That's why companies like Sun and HP call their operating systems Solaris and HP/UX, rather than "Unix" (even though they are functionally very Unix-like).
I'd rather ask "Deb".
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Since Debian is looking towards removing non-free then can I suggest that Debian aims to become the defacto base as in another layer above linux itself. Can I suggest that debian add another version called development that allows the very latest packages to be put there for all to try and test without the need for downloading, compiling and installing many modules. So there would be development, unstable, frozen and stable. This would not only accelerate debian itself but also linux itself and the packages on it. And would become the standard development ground which is currently missing from the open source world. The apt system makes Debian better than any other distro or operating system for this.
What are your feelings on this?
Is there really a point to asking a Debian person anything? You already know their answer will be in the form of "apt-get"
Q: "So, what is your personal opinion on the stance Debian has taken toward KDE?"
A: "apt-get opinion"
... how would you build an operating system knowing what you know now? I'm not talking kernel design, I'm talking overall system design. OS essentials, utilities, graphics system, applications, etc... Don't be specific to a certain popular kernel.. How would YOU do it? Could you describe the technical aspects -and- the management aspects?
-- Phenym
When does Debian plan to incorporate the LVM (Logical Volume Manager) tools into a standard release. It would be nice to see this along with the MD (Multiple Devices) working well together.
A summary of Debian releases is availible here. We can see that during Ian's period as leader of the project, releases tended to be about 6 months or less apart on, and this trend continued after he left until Hamm (2.0). After that things are a bit slower.
As for explaining it to suits, I do agree with you, but that answer is painfully obvious and we don't need to exclude another question for the sake of having Ian answer it.
How is this an important question for Ian? He is not in charge of the current release cycles. Didn't we already have an interview with Wichert? Should have asked him. If you want an answer from people who actually have something to do with what you are asking, try posting to the debian-project mailing list.
I spent some time before choosing a Linux distro that was right for me. I'm not a huge techie, but I enjoy technology and was looking to expand my horizons. How do you market your wares to people such as I?
Do you rely on word of mouth for advertising - which is what I went by - or do you wish to attract users who are more likely to test different distros before choosing? Basically, how do you get your name out into the market place?
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
Hi Ian, .net and Sun's Java thin clients. If this is correct, I am curious why you didn't choose an approach more similiar to Novell's Zenworks? For those that don't know Zenworks lets a central server install and update software on individual workstations.
I see Linux NOW is meant to make system administration easier. How ever after a brief cursory examination of your website, it seems you are trying to more network server side setup, similiar at least in concept to MS's
I would think that Zenworks would be a more pwerful solution as it would leverage the power of individual workstations as opposed to being limited to the bandwith and processing power of the server.
The other question I have is: What arguments would make to a new computer buyer (not necessarily first time user) to convince them to buy a Linux box?
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
In my enterprise we custom configure debian boxes for our customers. We think your new NOW stuff looks pretty hot as far as your world class team goes -some of the best out there including ...well... you!. (Im a fan, so what) ... I dont get it...whats this stuff (I read the page). Does it bring a new and innovative engineering concept? Would you elaborate on it?
Still, could you ellaborate on this "Changeing the way network computing works" stuff? I mean what's the new great idea in NOW. Will I be able to distribute tiers or threads across de networks (I can do that now, though).... Bottom line is
Alex
Stop looking at me.
Where do you stand on the whole "non-free should be removed from the Debian distribution/mirrors since we (Debian) don't want to promote non-free software" flamewar?
Could you please explain how NOW compares to a cluster (not just distributed computing like a Beowolf, but like one of the commercial Unices.) and how does it compare to a System Management program like OpenView. From what I've read, it seems somewhere in the middle.
He should know the best answers to these issues, as he has to explain them to suits every day.
In lieu of my usual ramen post: What do you think of ramen?
I'm dead serious... Ramen is hacker food... and the Debian distro is arguably the product of hacker minds.
I honestly would like an answer... and hey... its a short question!
the real shiftaling has user number 5134
Karma: -43 and DROPPING!!!
Ian, .deb it could cause a lot of damage, not only to my system(s) but to the general reputation of debian and linux.
<background>
I have migrated to debian because of apt. I don't have time to do all the upgrades, patches, etc manually. After I was shown apt I changed distro's.
<question>
What security measures are in place to protect from an apt attack? If someone puts malicious code into a
-- Andy Wergedal
* "Uncle this droid is malfunctioning" -- Luke Skywalker
Do you believe you will able to ever succesfully produce profit and constant revenue from a sector that captures a very small portion of the market and one that is possibly shrinking due to economic slowdown? Do you believe you actually have a viable future or are you looking to gain promenence (and wealth) from a takeover from a more succesful Linux oriented company?
What distinguishes Linux NOW from a simple NFS/NIS based network? For instance, my employer runs a network of Sun Solaris computers, with users authenticated through NIS and home directories mounted on NFS. I can log in at any desktop, from a cheesy SPARCStation Classic to an Ultra 5, and it will appear the same. What functionality does Linux NOW provide that this does not?
With the glut of "Linux distributions" in the marketplace, why should I pick NOW as my distro? What makes NOW so special that RedHat or SuSe can't do? How is NOW going to survive?
Do you forsee a time when there will be a cease fire between proponents of Debian(and it's children) and the proponents of RedHat(and it's children) as it relates to LSB compliance and interoperability between .debs and .rpms?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Could you tell us about this "Linux NOW" project you guys are working on now?
:)
Will the filesystem be based on Coda, or are you writing something completely new?
How does the distributed architecture compare with what is currently available?
Will it offer distributed computing, or just centralized administration?
It's great to hear that this will be released back to the community; I'm sure this will be released long before Microsoft makes any real headway on their "Millenium" project.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
I like what Debian is doing and believe it is very important. I also think it is a generally well thought-out system (altho there are annoyances with any distro). But the main problem I see with Debian (and what is keeping me from running it again at home) is that it is and has been behind the current linux technology. By this I mainly mean that it has taken so long for Debian to release a stable 2.2.x based distribution. Why do you think Debian has slipped in this regard and what can be done to fix it? Most servers running Debian now run VA's modified "slink and a half" distro to get the 2.2.x kernel if my impressions are correct (if they aren't, give me new ones).
So, why has Debian been slow to release? I do not believe excessive quality control is a good enough excuse (I consider a delay this long while other distros have reasonable 2.2.x releases to be excessive).
It us understandable to be surly sometimes.
What do you think about the current political problems with KDE in debian, the possible removal of non-free, and any other 'political' issues you care to comment on?
How has debian converged or diverged from what you originally wanted it to be?
If you were Wichert, which direction would you take debian in now?
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
Despite promises from Lineo and Blue Cat to be the embedded Linux specialists, Transmeta is using Debian as a base for its Mobile Linux. In addition, Corel uses Debian for its own distro.
Do you see Debian becoming a base upon which other distributions are built instead of "just another Linux distribution[1]." Given the amount of ports Debian has expanded to (x86, 68k, Sparc, Alpha, ARM, i-opener, etc), do you see it becoming the uber-distro for embedded (and unorthodox) systems?
[1]We all know that Debian is more than this, of course.
Back in the day... Debian seemed to have two major goals: it was going to be free and non-corporate like and it was going to include every possible package you could think of. The second goal caused some distribution problems but it was nothing that apt and a "non-free" directory couldn't solve... It may not have been perfect but Debian was a major player, a realistic option to Redhat or Caldera and when it mattered Debian could wave the flag of freedom and say it was down for the cause.
I know I'll sound like a hypocrite to anyone who has read my posts before but now it looks like ideology has gone too far. Pulling KDE out really seems like a ploy to rekindle the GNOME vs. KDE war, leave it in non-free and keep non-free there, let the users know but give them the option. (I'm a GNOMEie in part because of the freedom issue, but I respect what Corel, Troll and the KDE team has done and while it will probably never be "GPL complete" (I just made that up, feel free to use "GPL complete" as you need to...) in terms of freedom it will get very very close, probably near the "Stallman Limit")
I also think the delays that have kept a Debian release from coming out for what, over a year now, are just an extreme form of idealism. There simply isn't any way you can get all the bugs out of that much software, can't be done. Debian, still, has one of the more sophisticated automatic package distribution systems, it has more than a few people who can write code if needed, it seems like it would be more than good enough to add a new apt option, "get-emergency" that you could put in a cron job and it would download emergency stability fixes or something. I really think the boat is being missed, part of the idea is to release early, release often, and do you best to put out bug-free releases but be better at fixing the bugs when they surface. That's how the kernel runs and t work's pretty well. Of course, if they really want to take the stability thing far then why not cut out the non-free and 98% of the other packages and ship only a kernel once a perfectly stable one is written?
I also think that using BSD and Hurd kernels is a noble goal and I'm glad Debian is trying to do it but is it too much to be the ideology king and then to build this kernel independence while putting out only rock solid and beyond releases? Staying up-to-date while doing all of that has to be impossible. OpenBSD kind of get's away with being woefully behind the times because there is the value add of being secure or the illusion of it, OpenBSD's mission statement also has a much smaller focus, it's security at all costs, not freedom, lot's of packages, rock solid, and kernel independence.
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
Debian has often been accused of having a very slow development cycle. The "stable" distribution is still using two to three year old technology, while frozen is getting more and more out of date each day. Meanwhile, companies like Mandrake are releasing much more bleeding edge distributions. These distributions have more bugs in them, but are also ahead of the game in terms of performance enhancements, newer software, and fixes for older bugs that still plague the older software in Debian. How do you respond to companies like this, and what do you see as Debian's place among these companies?
If you could take 2 features from two other operating systems and add them to *nix what would they be?
What's your second-favourite Linux distribution?
Do you have any regrets about stepping down from your position with Debian? (IE: directions the project has gone that you disagree with and might have been able to prevent)
What do you think is the best way to put out the distro flame wars and welcome more people into the world of Linux?
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Last week we selected [famous name] as an authority in [field] to answer some of your best and brightest questions. We've included [his/her] responses below:
[the I-think-you-are-cool-and-would-like-to-be-like-you question]
1. How did you choose [field] and how can I get more involved in [field].
[famous name] Well, I really started by [...at this point, [famous name] begins to launch into a short autobiography. The reply to this first question will take up about as much space as the other 9 combined.]
[the multi-part question]
2. I think you are really cool. What are you feelings on [topic]?
and how it relates to groundhogs
[famous name] Phew! That sure is a lot to answer. Well I guess you could sum it up neatly by saying that, yes, I do like it all.
[the I-also-like-[other-topic]-do-you-think-it's-relate d-to-your-[field] question]
3. I really like your work and am also interested in the whole Napster-Metallica-MP3 debate. How do you think it relates to your scientific [field]?
[famous name] Well, I, well, uh... [at this point, [famous name] is thinking, "Where in the world did that question come from? Oh well, I'll try to be polite and answer it] I really think that, uh, music should be, uh, heard--yeah, heard!--and I think that, uh, well, Napster provides a service of hearing.
[the really-in-depth question]
4. Dear [famous name],
I have tracked your research into biogenetical ESP CIO medicare research with great interested and wondered if you could clarify a minor point for me: in your estimation, are the EIO levels in a controlled AF/BF reaction substantially higher than the CF/DF state because of genetic-electro-magnetic lunar levels or is it mostly from O2 radiation WRT our helial position?
[famous name] [Recognizes a quality question from a member of [field] and tries to formulate a scientific answer] Well, I believe my research has conclusively show that CD/DF states can be generated from the O2 +7/~3KE100 states of the T1000 with ISA/PCI/FBI catalysts [...launches into such arcane detail that no one outside of his research area has any clue what he's talking about.]
[the Score:5, Funny question]
5. What do you think of Natalie Portman eating hot grits in a Boewulf cluster?
[famous name] Uh, well, I'm not really sure what you mean. Wasn't Natilie Portman that actress in Star Wars or something? [[famous name] is now wondering what he's got himself into, and who exactly are these Slashdot people...]
[the your-work-sucks-I-scoff-at-you question]
6. Hey [famous name's first name], I seen you on CNBC and I gotta tell ya, I don't think it's gonna work. I mean, whose to say that you even gradated from MIT in the 1st place? Are we supose to believe that stuff? If ur so smart, how come you haven't figured it out yet?????!!!!!
[famous name] Well I believe we can make this work. I realize we've spent $80 million in research already, but if you look at the data I think you'll see that our work has some definite promise here. The possibilities for science are almost endless!- life question]
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[more questions. [famous name]'s answers are getting shorter and more heated with each question. In one question, he calls the questioneer a bad name. In another question, he limits his answer to a simple "no."]
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[the I'd-like-to-know-about-this-area-of-your-personal
9. I noticed in the picture of you in the NYTimes that there's a bottle of Pert Plus behind you in that picture. Do you usually use Pert Plus for the dual-action, shampoo + conditioner in one? Or is it more because you like the curve and bounce of your hair after using it?
[famous name] That wasn't my bottle of Pert Plus in the picture.
[the I-can-generalize-your-entire-life's-work-in-a-sing le-statement question]
10. I see you and other researches working on things like this and I wonder if this isn't all part of something bigger, like the Grand Unified Theory. Do you think your work is just a small piece of a larger puzzle?
[famous name] [Realizes he now has to defend his work and is torn between trying to write a compelling argument for doing what he does or just trashing the 10th question altogether. Decides to write something, but keep it as short as possible.] Our work is extremely important. Without our research, that $80 million might have gone to another, less-deserving [field] of science. We can continue to produce more quality data the more funding we have.
[famous name] realizes that the questions were mostly a flop but partially good and tries to wrap everything up politely: "I realize that a lot of you are very interested in what we do and I think you for your interest. You can learn more about our projects [web site] and I encourage you to visit. Thank you all again for this wonderful opportunity to answer your questions."
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