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Debian 2.2 To Be Dedicated To Joel 'Espy' Klecker
This is the first public announcement of this intention. Some may notice two new files in our archive (or on mirrors) and on the new Test Cycle 3 CD's. This is a dedication of this release to a recently daparted member of our Project, Joel Klecker, who died unexpectedly at age 21. Here is the dedication (which also appears below)
You will also find a file with it called dedication-2.2.sigs.tar.gz, which contains close to 200 PGP signatures from our developers for the dedication.txt.
Joel's death was the result of a life long battle with Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy. Information for donations to the Muscular Dystrophy Association can be found here and will be greatly appreciated (please make donations in Joel's name, if you so desire):
Sincerely,
Ben Collins
The contents of the dedication follows
Dedicated to Joel 'Espy' Klecker
On July 11, 2000, the Debian Project, and the Free Software Community as a whole, lost a very dear friend and developer. For most of Joel's life he had been fighting a disease known as Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy. Since July of 1997, Joel has been a Debian developer, and for most of that time was bed-ridden because of this disease. Joel was 21 when he died, far from the ripe age we imagine most people in our field will reach. His great dedication to the project is an inspiration to us all, and will never be forgotten.
He was known by most of us as "Espy", his IRC nickname, and also as the outspoken voice we heard on the mailing lists, never afraid to speak his mind in a way that only Joel could do, with humor and directness. He maintained a level of excellence in many important packages for Debian. His expertise and knowledge was never questioned. Those of us who have the honor of carrying on the work that he has done for us, will try to maintain it to his degree of technical perfection.
Most of us had no idea the trials that Joel endured every day of his life. Not until near the end did any of us know he even had this disease. Only now are we realizing his dedication, and the friendship that he bestowed upon us. So as a show of our appreciation, and in memory of his inspirational life, this release of Debian is for him.
* The "Joel 'Espy' Klecker" release
-- The Debian Developers
Beat that (RedHat, SuSE, Mandrake, Corel, Caldera and all the other commercial distro's around)! This proofs to me that the Debian distro truly is focused on the people using and developing it. Personally I don't see this happen in any of the commercial distro's. Sure; a name change can be very easy to do. But when the whole marketing strategy is completely setup it would cost money and in those cases I don't think that "commercial respect / admiration" will have the same 'impact' as personal admiration.
Don't get me wrong; You can't judge a distro by this gesture but you can sure see what kind of people are working on it.
I guess the point is this: "I don't care what you call me, just don't call me late for dinner!"
BoZ
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
While I did not have the honor of meeting this individual, I am quite glad to hear that he was able to overcome his disability and live an active, interesting life, if only in the virtual world.
I have a brother-in-law with the same condition and am sad to say that he does not get the same opportunities due, primarilly, to foolish restrictions placed by his parents. It's incredibly depressing to see someone inteligent waste away due to something like this and not being able to exercise the one facility that the disease has not taken away, their intelect.
Once again, we see advantages to the online world that we will never match in the real one. I think the dedication is a great way to remember him.
-- IANAEG - I am not an elder god.
Unfortunately, the Debian release cycle is such that we won't see a stable release with a 2.4 kernel for some time. But a few packages from woody such as devfsd allow 2.4.0-test* to run perfectly on potato.
I totally love Debian and appreciate the outstanding effort of everyone who has maintained packages, managed releases, or otherwise contributed to the Debian project.
it's not /doc/dedication-2.2.txt, it's: /pub/deb ian/doc/dedication-2.2.txt
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
System Stats:
6:27am up 116 days, 12:08, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
---
If a computer had a heart it would have sorely missed him )-:
Google results 1-10 of about 4,860 for espy joel klecker. Search took 3.91 seconds.
It's neat with todays technology on how we all can be remembered...
I regret to say that your own, personal memory of Espy will probably outlive his digital presence on the internet, except possibly in the form of his contributions to Debian.
Usenet articles expire and are deleted. Even Deja removes old material after three or four years, never to be seen again. Web pages change, lists of contributing authors change, software dies and is replaced, etc.
I suggest, if you really are interested in preserving Espy's digital memory, mirroring some or all of these references on a web page for just that purpose. Usenet postings in particular are vulnerable to vanishing.
Otherwise, the Debian dedication notwhithstanding, I think you'll be unpleasantly surprised at just how transient our collective "digital" memory is.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
We often look at a persons body and think we see the person. This being nothing more than the tool they use to move and exist.
Who they are exists inside the brain. That is only seen when we sitdown and talk with people. Get to know them.
It is easy to see past the body when we see no body at all. On the Internet all you have are the persons thoughts. Not skin tone. Not gender. Just his thoughts.
After all.. it's the thought that counts... right?
I don't actually exist.
Thank you for all your work Espy. I may have never met you or chatted with you, but I do use your code. RIP. White Wolf
yea, it's sad that he's dead, but if you needed his passing to learn about what is important in this world and what's not, you need to get a clue.
Well it would depend on the person. A person who whimsicially chooses a handle or changes frequently didn't have any particular attachment to that persona, yet others have had the same one for decades and are more attuned to the handle than their 'real' self.
Some people will use the handle for 'shielding' things, other people in real life wouldn't tell you anything personal either. It's entirely a personal and psycological choice.
Some people don't hide anything and spill their whole life on the net, others have more restraint and want to be more private.
Fsck cluebie moderators. I'll say what I want, offtopic or not. And fsck having to qualify every bloody statement just
This napster thing, how bout we hold a minute of silence for someone who dedicated his life for a better cause then napster.
I think your comments are right on the mark. At least for most people.
There are people who use a handle to create an alternate fantasy or 31337 identity. Fantasy identities are fine. (Almost) Everyone likes to play pretend now and then. As for the 31337 types, sometimes it's anonymity, sometimes wanting to pump themselves up, sometimes I-know-not-what.
But you can usually tell the difference between fantasy, 31337, and personal handles, though. DragonSlayer, LordDeath, and Cheetah (my preferred nick) are easily distinguished as different categories of identities. People actually gave me the nickname Cheetah in real life before I even knew what the internet was.
Which brings up an interesting point. Some online names are nicks, and some are handles. A nick(name) often is just that: an alternate name for someone that conveys some personal characteristic. A handle would be more likely a name to give someone a new identity.
All that said, it seems to me that Espy is a personal nickname, not a handle. And from what little I can hope to imagine about being in his shoes, I have to think that he probably chose quite deliberately not to make his illness publicly known online. Nobody knew what was 'wrong' with him, and it didn't show up in his online presence. So nobody thought anything was wrong with him and treated him with respect. And for someone with a severe disability, to be treated with respect instead of pity or compassion must be a welcome thing indeed.
-Matt
-Cheetah
When first reading this, I thought, like anyone else, "Wow, that's really a strong gesture, and demonstration of the community", and so on.
But then, I realized just how much this one person has affected the world. I myself don't install Debian on any of my computers, but I regularly use at least one Debian installation..... and it's very solid, thanks in no small part to this man.
I challenge each one of you to think about this... has your life been affected? Mine has, even though I don't really think about it much.
My condolences to his family and friends.
Hi Alex!
My SlashDot "nick" should make plain my thoughts about using handles. 8-) But for some people in this world, the Internet and a handle let them be known precisely for what they are not. In an evil sense that can be a 40-something bald man pretending to be a 15-year-old blonde chiquita looking for Life in the Fast Lane. But many times it can be people with disabilities who--for once in their lives--can be accepted as part of a community without anybody knowing or caring that they're different.
Years ago, on CompuServe, there was a sysop on a bunch of forums named Ed. Ed was a busybody. Ed was a know-it-all. Ed, to be candid, was something of a jerk. But Ed had some grounds to be a know-it-all--he did know it all. He was an incredibly talented guy, just a guy who seemed to have a colossal chip on his shoulder. Long story, but I came to learn that Ed had a raft of serious disabilities. It made it easier to understand the guy. But Ed didn't want people to know about his features--he wanted to be known for who he was, and what he was capable of doing. He wanted the force of his intellect and personality to be the features that identified him, not the nature of his disabilities.
People in the real world tend to joke about us--they say that geeks relate better to machines than to people. In truth, many of us participate online because we do relate better when we're writing HTML code. We can toss off witty bon mots, we can use italics to subtly shade our views, and we can use emoticons to take the edge off when we are treading the fine line between being forthright and being a flamer. 8-) For the vast majority of us, that's a matter of choice--we can get up and walk through the door out into the Big Blue Room[tm] and say, "oh, my--what a lovely day." For others of us, that isn't possible. We may not be able to walk, we may not be able to talk, we may not be able to see.
Joel Klecker evidently took advantage of that. As Espy, he wasn't a bed-ridden kid, withering away. He wasn't an object of pity, he wasn't "included" so that other people could feel good about themselves, he wasn't somebody's class pet. He mattered--and he was evidently known for the force of his personality and intellect.
I see your point. Some people use handles because they're afraid to use their own names. But some people--and probably more than you'd think--use handles as a way to express who they are, as opposed to how the world sees them. For the Eds and the Barrys that I've known--and for Joel, whom I did not know--the online community was the one place where they were not disabled.
Good for Joel.
Probably stating the obvious here, but as an earlier poster pointed out, things don't stay around for long in the world of software. If people just let this dedication stay as it is, a dedication, Espy's name may be just part of history fairly quickly.
What I think would be a great way to remember him, and keep his name alive, is to do all you can to make his name part of the common parlance. Refer to Debian 2.2 as "Espy release". Talk about installing "Espy Debian", and so on.
It would be a wonderful tibute if, in a couple of years, the Jargon File included an entry for "Espy". That would truly be a lasting memorial.
"There are some men who should have mountains to bear their names to time" - Leonard Cohen.
ÐÆ
|>
Here be Dragons
Funeral directors do not put ads on the side of the coffin..
I actually thought even the trollers and spammers would have enough respect for their fellow man (and I use the term loosely in connection with them) to leave this thread alone. But in actuallity it appears that the trolls and spammers like this thread more than most others.
...and the trolls and spammers see a golden opportunity to bother and disrupt.
I do wish to express my sadness at the loss of a Debian volunteer, especially at such a young age. But I also wish to ask, why must so many be so rude? Is it really too much to ask for just a little respect (as the poster I am responding to has). One thread trolls. That is all we ask. Yet that is too much.
A man's life has ended. Someone put a dedication to that life in Debian (one of his pet projects). Someone else put a dedication to that dedication (and thus a dedication to him) on slashdot and opened the door for people to 'pay their respects' via the online community...
I must go wipe the tears from my eyes. I weep as much for the lost souls of the trolls as for the young man that is the subject.
Bite my yammer.
To everybody who posted here saying how much they appreciated and will miss Joel who actually knew him (or at least read newsgroup postings or something before today), read some other message. This ain't for you.
To the people who made posts saying, essentially, "I didn't know him, I'm not entirely certain who he was, and will probably never really use Debian, but I'd like to say that I really appreciate what he's done and will always be moved by his dedication to life and the future etc.", what's the point?
I'm really not trolling or trying to be a dick, but I find it disturbing that people use times like this to force upon themselves a weird sense of melencholy inspiration. Will there come a time when somebody starts reading the obituaries and learning as much about the good traits of every last person in there just to make themselves feel inspired? Are dead people Chicken Soup For The Living Person's Soul?
My mother died about two years ago (the first person to say "I'm Sorry" gets punched in the face), and I had similar thoughts then-- people who haven't had a single experience with any relative dying nor any relationship with my mother felt the need to console me by, essentially, lying their asses off. They said they knew how great a person mom was. They gave their ideas of how they would, philosophically, feel in my shoes, and then tried to pass-off the feeling as the one they were having right then.
*I* was taking it better than my friends. My neighbor probably cried more than I did, and all I could really do was wonder is if those tears of hers stopped the second I left the room or if she actually managed to do some serious empathizing with her own imagination.
Anyway, maybe I'm just removed from the rest of my race (a true nerd!), and maybe I'm just inhuman and capable of feeling, but I'd just like to tell you to think about this for one moment and think about whether your sorrow at the death of someone you really didn't know is insincere. If the answer is "yes", go ahead and write a canned speach about how Joel should be admired and we should think of this every once in a while to humble ourselves as people who are still living (since we are, apparently, arrogent in comparison to the dead), but think twice about hitting the submit button.
And I would like to restate that I'm not trolling or being a dick. I'm not trying to trivialize the death of Joel, but I personally find people using it to manufacture some strange inspiration for themselves to be insincere and rude, and I felt like getting that fact out of my system.
This article is very interesting because news of Espy's passing apparently made it to his Debian and Internet friends quite quickly.
However, many of us, such as myself have electronic and "real" lives that are very separate. I have some great friends on IRC and what not that have never met me in real life and probably don't even know my phone number. If I were to pass on today, would they ever find out? I suppose if you are famous, word gets around quickly, but what about the not-so-famous?
Using IRC as an example, I wonder how many people have died and disappeared from a channel only to have the regulars assume that they just got sick of IRC and quit.
I do not agree. Myself I know many people only by there nicks. From others I know their real name but almost never use it. Likewise many people don't know my real name. But what is the problem with that?
"Real" names are chosen by parents, not the individual that has to use it for the rest of his life. A nick is not official so can easily be changed when it is no longer usefull. Also it is possible to have multiple nicks. Very usefull.
Lastly, theres nothing new or geeky to nicks. People always have used nicks.
The Romans always used their nicks. They didn't even bother to think of fancy first names. There were only a dozen or so common names. It even was common to call a child "Second" or "Third". Nicks were what they used, eg Caesar means "The Bald", Cicero = "Frog", Caligula="Boots", etc, etc, etc
Oh, you want flying cars? Okay. The Moller Skycar.
In short, it's worth it. In addition to MANY new packages and bugfixes, Debian 2.2 is based on glibc 2.1.3 and (finally) the 2.2.x kernel series. Great pains were taken to make sure that this is the best release yet, quality- and quantity-wise.
Having known and worked with Joel over the years that I've been a Debian developer, I'm confident that he would be very proud of this release and the work that went into it (his included...he busted his a** to make sure that glibc issues were taken care of). I'm honoured to have put work into Debian 2.2 knowing that it would bear his name upon release.
In a few other non-judeo-christian [note: I may be far off of the mark as to the starting of naming individuals at birth. Please correct me if I am wring here. Thanks.] cultures (Native american tribes come to mind), the children are either given the opportunity to aquire names for themselves or are named by the tribe describing a prominent feature (he who rides with big shlong), life occurance (he who stands tall in cold water), etc.
What makes the Internet (BBS' and all other places where handles are used) is that the people in our culture remake themselves in an image that more suits them. Effectivly rebirthing ourselves as new individuals, online. We can create entire fantasy universes (in our monds or otherwise) to interact in with other people that we would never have met otherwise.
Back on topic: I think that your comment:
is way off of the mark. My handle has personal meaning for me; it was not chosen idly and has stayed with me throughout my Internet existance (about 4 or 5 years.. 8 or 9 if you count the local BBS's). I find that I am very comfortable with my handle and it is in no way a sign of disrespect to be called by it.
As for them: "..not knowing the Individual behind the curtain..", since when does anyone? This may be a naive perspective on my part (probably is, I don't care for socialising all that much), but what are you but what other people see you as. The online tech community saw Espy as a bright, young and technically gifted individual. I'm pretty sure that this is exactly what he was. Would you care to comment otherwise?
Rami James / Lonesmurf
--
rJames.org - illustration
http://www.debian.org/support#irc
http://www.infodrom.north.de/Debian/user.html
When I started playing multiplayer games, I chose $20 Whore. Why? I play like a whore, for humorous reasons (multiplayer games should not be that serious), and Blazing Saddles has that one line "Wow... you use your tongue better than a $20 Whore." =)
Lately, I've shelved underdog and use mizhi. mizhi is actually a Chinese version of my name. It was given to me by a good friend during a study session for my Chinese final. It has a meaning that evokes a certain pride from me... that and according to my Professor is like a religious name. I actually like this name a little more than my real name... and my girlfriend tends to use this name in real life more than my real name.
But, I've never really had people call me by my handle unless they were introducing me to another person who only knew me by my handle. I've actually found that once people get my real name and meet me in person, they start using my real name online. Kinda weird though.
But then, I had friends who would change their name constantly...Handle Whores. =)
But whatever the handle I use, my personality becomes a little more bolder online. I still have the same persona, but more forceful. That's not to say I'm a wuss in real life, but I find that I can speak my mind more freely online using an assumed name.
Humorless sig goes here.
What a creative way to troll, Rombuu. First you do an anonymous post that is such an obvious troll as to be spotted by even the most naive of Slashdot newbies. Then, as yourself, you pretend you 'fell' for the trolling. Genious indeed!
But it would never occur to you to show the proper respect for someone who has done something with his life, even as that life was compromised by such a terrible disease as muscular dystrophy.
What a pathetic fool you are. I'm ready to take the karma hit, if I must, but I sure hope someone give you (and your AC alias) the mod points you deserve.
--
Information wants to be beer, or something like that.
I'm sure that the Debian developers would be glad to send it to the proper place where it should go: The Free Software Foundation.
Oh, silly me, I thought you were going to say the Muscular Dystrophy Association. But of course, the free software jihad must come first...
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
I've lurked around here quite a bit without posting; this seemed like a good opportunity to break that streak.
Many, like myself, didn't know Joel, but we used Debian and benefitted from the hard work that he put into it. It seems very appropriate for this release to be dedicated to him, as it sounds like it will lend itself to a great out-of-the box user experience. Joel's friends and family have my deepest condolences.
To Joel: Thanks for all of the hard work and your dedication to the community in spite of this disorder, You'll be greatly missed.
--
keep acting shocked and move slowly towards the cake.
And now we see the loss of a beloved member of the Free Software movement. And, in the tradition of bad situations bringing out the best in a community, we see the same spirit of brotherhood and comeraderie brought forth in a display of love.
yeah, when I worked for a closed source software development company, when someone died there would just be a new person sitting in that guys desk the next day, and we were never supposed to ask any questions or anything or mention the dead persons name again. I guess free software is better...
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
Same here, initially ("Germany" in this case). It took me five tries to figure out that it expects an ISO country code. "UK" or "GB" should work for you; "DE" did it for me.
After I finally donated my modest $50, I sent mail to the site's admin, explaining the situation, and pledged another $100 if they managed to fix that.
Espy lives in the form of an idle IRC connection.. *** Espy has been idle 435hrs 8mins 55secs, signed on Wed Jul 05 09:41:58 ***
Your factoid entry "espy" no longer reads that colourful quote of yours (but I've moved it to espy_quote)
It now reads:
God bless your soul and rest in peace, Espy. You help and work shall be sorely missed around here.
-- "I can't tell the future, I just work there." -- The Doctor
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
Then why do the separate countries of the UK field separate football (soccer) teams, but a united Olympic team? Can't they work it out between themselves?
As I understand it, they are separate countries.... and in fact Wales and Scotland both voted overwhelmingly for devolution.
ObBackOnTopic: As a humble Debian (l)user, I, too, appreciate what Espy has done and am sorry to hear he has passed away. "Ask not for whom the bell tolls...."
deus does not exist but if he does
Regardless of the dubious morality of the AC that signed his post as "^moa", I feel I must mention that in this "modern" world, nothing is sacred. The propaganda (aka "advertising") industry is in a period of unprecendented growth, and wishes to force itself into all aspects of life. To this effect, they are evermore looking into possible spaces in which to stick their propaganda. Bathroom stalls. Elevators. School classrooms.
They have even went to the extreme of using computer technology to replace the content of billboards in live TV news coverage to ads for the sponsors of the show. Scary, huh?
If the dead are ripe for propaganda purposes, the advertising industry will crawl their way into the dead. It's all a matter of timing.
Are you adequate?
Oh please, you seriously think I went through all that trouble? Was a sad little pathetic person you must be. Living life thinking that there is this big conspiracy all around out to get you. Tire on your car goes flat -- damn the conspiracy! Milk in the fridge goes sour -- damn the conspiracy! Don't like someones post on /. -- damn the conspiracy!
Oh well, on the upside you will undoubtedly make significant contributions to putting some shrink's kid through college.
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
First, I'd like to say that handles or nicks are often a part of who someone really is. They often show how that person defines him or herself. I am Spartacus. I picked up the nickname about ten years ago (which, considering that I'm only 20, is a pretty damn siginficant amount of time), while ski racing. Since I went to high school with some of the same people I was racing with at the time, the name stuck. Well, it got shortened to "Sparty", but it stuck.
Why do I still use "Sparty"? A lot of people know me as Sparty--I'm now teaching Summer School at the prep school I graduated from (Internet Publishing Course), and I'm working with and/or teaching a lot of people who know me as Sparty. I've used other handles online before--Roadrunnr being the one that I remember--but Sparty, well, Sparty is who I am.
In my case, my nickname became a part of who I am, and it helps other people because it's a lot easier to remember "Sparty" than "Kevin." Do I introduce myself as Sparty? No--it's a PITA to explain it every single friggin time. Do other people sometimes introduce me as Sparty? Yep. I don't mind.
He'll be remembered, he did a lot of good for the debian distribution, and I think we should be thankful for it.
you normally stand up when you read slashdot?
It's sad... very sad. I didn't cry... but my eyes filled with water :( . I SpaceKow
Free Web based FTP
(emphasis mine)
Bit of a coincidence, isn't it?
Condoleances.
Joel would probably have liked that we also care about his work so, what's new in 2.2 ?
Is it a major upgrade or does it just consist of bug-fixes and upgrades ?
I hope this is somehow major or that further major updates will also be dedicated to his memory as, for what I read he was more than just a passing by Debian contributor.
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
My name is fairly meaningless to me, it's on all kinds of stuff I'm not remotely interested in, I don't particularly like it, and I don't identify with it at all.
Nicknames are personal, whether given or chosen, and they represent me more precisely, in a certain context.
One of the nice things about the Internet is that it allows us to omit some of the aspects of our daily lives that other people get confronted with in an eye to eye meeting: how I look, how I behave, some of the boring routine of daily life. The net allows me to leave that behind to some extent.
And choosing to identify myself by a handle rather than my real name only serves to stress this. My 'handle' identity is a limited me, partly through the medium, but also, through my own choice: I can reveal as much as I want to. My 'real name' is a reminder of the illusion of the one me, a single identity that I didn't choose, that I can't escape from, that I can only hope to justify.
Although I knew him only on IRC, if he is close enough, I'd like to attend the funeral and memorial service.
Does anyone know of the location, times, dates, etc?
Not knowing Espy, I won't comment on him. However, this situation gets me to think.
It is great that someone was able to use the Internet to communicate with people despite physical ailments. When I was a teenager in suburban South Florida, I had no method of transportation. In an area with no useful public transportation and spread out housing, this prevented me from interacting socially with my classmates, as I went to a middle school and high school 30 minutes from my house. While I wouldn't equate a major physical illness to being under the driving age, the age issue creates a small subset of the problems.
I met many people through a local BBS. Most of the people I keep in touch with from home I originally met online. We had the advantage of living within 30-45 minutes from each other.
A good friend of mine is actually staying with me at school. He is getting on his feet, and I am glad to be of help.
Why am I commenting on this? It took me years with this particular friend to call me Alex instead of Scorp. He still thinks of certain people by their handles. I mostly used my friends' names, and tried to get others to return the favor. But this particular friend wouldn't do it for a while.
It saddens me that people who had many conversations with this gentleman may not have known his given name. It worries me when handles constantly replace names in our conversations.
Is this not a problem? Is a handle merely a chosen name that replaces a given name? Is a handle an identity, and we don't interact with their real self, merely this persona?
Perhaps I'm ready too much into this, but I find it sad that many people that knew him knew him via handle, and not name. Maybe I'm "old fashioned," but I don't think that handles are as personal as a name.
You name is at the core of your identity. Your handle is a front, a persona we put out to shield ourselves. I would like to think that I people that know me get to know the real me, instead of a convenient front.
In this case, they knew the online personality. They didn't know the individual behind the curtain. They didn't know his name, his ailment, his problems, merely a handle and his technical savvy. While I like being appreciated for my technical skills, I'd rather be known for who I am.
Is this an unusual perspective?
Alex
Joel,
I didn't know you, but a belated "Thank You", and good-bye.
-Jerry
Long Live GNU/Linux!
(this is kinda off topic)
I can see where handles can seem so de-personalizing to some, what with thier transience and psuedo-anonimity as used by many. But I generaly don't view them that way. The reason being that i've effectivle had one all my life. When I was born I was named for my father, and imeadiatly given a nickname (that apears no-where on my birth certificate) to keep us readily seperated, it's not even derived from my given name (like Rick or Dick for richard or even Bill for william). If anything about handles/nicks bothers me it's the people who change thiers every few days or weeks, creating confusion.
I've been using mine (Mycroft) for 16 years now. to me a handle/nick/name is just a shorthand and convient way of referenceing someone.
As far as the topic goes I wish I could say somthing deep or even meaningful, but not having had the honor of meeting 'Espy' i'll just have a simple 'me too' type condolence to those who did and must suffer the loss. 'Espy' no longer has the pain but others must still live with the sorrow.
I have some dumb questions that need a home ...
My room-mate has a younger brother with Duchenne's. As I understand things, he's not expected to live beyond 20.
There's a charity which supports the sufferers of Duchennes and their families. My roommate made the webpage for it.
Have a look at www.dfsg.org.uk.
Sir, your courage in the face of adversity was remarkable. You will be sorely missed.
time and place for everything... 'tact', look it up.
It just reminds us all that when you see people hobbling around or in a wheelchair, unable to help themselves, and that little spark in your brain tells you to giggle, just think for one fucking second...
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
....that all this computer stuff, while insanely interesting, is secondary to the people behind it.
I guess when you have muscular distrophy you cant get around much. That doesn't mean you stop thinking however. Apparently he used his talents for a wonderfully productive purpose...something we all should take not of. As the old saying goes, when life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
As a kid (I am 33) I used to watch the Jerry Lewis telethon and donate $5 because I had a few dollars from birthday presents (my birthday is at the end of August and the telethon normally runs at the beginning of September). There is something inside of me that says perhaps I should have given $10.
I'm still working on a clever footer.
Or just delete these posts. You know you can do it. Hopefully this is the final straw, these idiots don't deserve the satisfaction of seeing their 'work' displayed in public. Perhaps the next slashdot poll?
fact, most often I feel more comfortable with people calling me by my nickname.
Isn't it a bit of a mouthful for people to be constantly calling you "Anonymous Coward"? :)
---
Jon E. Erikson
Jon Erikson, IT guru
Romans were assigned a long name at birth that was typically descriptive of their family's heritage, especially in the case of the patrician families. As a Roman did things later in life (and most notably in the case of senators and other governing officials), he was apt to acquire a cognomen - a nick - sometimes assigned and sometimes personally chosen, to reflect something about him or something he had done.
Nicks aren't fundamentally different. I was a long-time BBS'er too, and still have friends that think of me handle-first, name-second. It doesn't bother me; in fact, it's very comforting. My handle and I aren't separate; we're the same identity, and we're comfortable with that. :)
Putting "England" as an answer is about the equivalent of putting in "Scotland", "Wales" or "Cornwall".
I believe even the term "Great Britain" is no longer binding as it does not encompass N. Ireland.
I don't see whats so funny about your post - it only means that moderators know as little Geography as you.
You posting an add and trying to profit from this mans death are enough to make me sick. I never knew Espy, but from what i read he was a good man and a great developer. For once in your life can you think of soemone else before you? Condolances to his family... --LR
Okay, this probably going to end up as off-topic, but it's the first time I've seen the issue really bandied about in a public forum.
/meet/ them (as in meatspace)? Even with modern conveniences like Priceline, how many of Espy's friends and colleagues will be able to attend his funeral?
This is the year 2000, and we don't have the flying cars, the SSTs, the transcontinental supersonic subways or even the monorails we were all promised as kids. We don't need them as much as we would've in a pre-wired society, but we still need to get around.
Technology has enabled us to get to know great people like Espy; I never knew him, but we've all known people like him. However, transportation technology has been stagnant since the development of the jet aircraft. We're able to meet all these wonderful people from around the world, but how often do we actually get to
I come from a situation that resembles Alex's. I hear a lot of talk about how the 'wired world' will allow meatspace to remain quiet and quaint, as more tasks can be accomplished without leaving your desk. Unfortunately, you can't exactly act globally if you have a hard time leaving your house. My particular town has been making an effort to remain quiet and quaint since it became a commuter haven decades ago, and it means that youth and the elderly (or anyone who doesn't routinely pilot a dinosaur-burner, such as myself) are trapped inside. There have been a number of online friends I'd have loved to visit, and funerals I wish I could've attended, but getting there isn't possible.
I urge everyone reading to support public transport initiatives in suburban, exurban, and rural areas. It's one thing for geeks like us to read things like this on our screens; it's another to be able to get out there and support what we care about, be it a great man, a good cause, or simply a friendship. Consider the profitability of privatized transport for the public; a few buses are cheap (with a centralized fueling structure, there's no reason to stick with expensive and messy fossil fuels), roads are basically free, and if you lay out your routes well, your customers will use them. (The only public transport in my area runs from a mall to a train station; even the university in the area isn't covered. Of course, their passenger figures prove that it's not profitable to expand the system with such stops.)
Even geeks don't want to sit in front of a computer all day, but sometimes it's all we have. As a Linux developer, I'm sure Espy would've wanted to be remembered for inspiring a tradition of social change, so how 'bout we build some transport to allow us to meet people like him in person? The IT systems necessary would run Debian, of course...
Espy was a friend of many on the Undernet network, including myself. We have added an in memorium notice to one of our more frequently visited homepages for him.
Rest in peace Espy.
I think this is a good thing. They didn't know Espy had a medical condition, and it didn't matter.
They interacted with him and treated him as they would anyone else. He won their respect and friendship based on his personal merits, not on pity. I am sure that meant a lot to him.
The same goes for the rest of us. It is great to meet people and make friends based upon nothing more than our interaction online. No one knows my name, what I look like, who my family is etc. and I think that is a good thing. The person they are talking to is still me, I haven't changed or lost my identity.
My online handle is just another name for me.
forgey
I don't really see the distinction between a handle and a nickname. In fact, my handle (broonie) was what people called me long before I ever used a computer. As far as I'm concerned it is a name.
Joel's real name was no secret to Debian developers; it appeared on every e-mail he sent to our mailing lists, in the control data of his packages, in the Debian PGP/GPG keyrings, and in his /whois information on IRC.
Debian does not permit entrance to our project by people who do not establish their real identity.
While the phemomenon you describe may be a problem in some circles, I do not perceive it as one within the Debian community.
That said, I answer both to "Branden" and "Overfiend"... :)
I personally miss Joel a great deal, and saw and spoke with him almost daily on IRC for about two years. He had a great sense of humor and appreciated the value of a good flame. I would periodically ask him if he was coming to the next Linux convention, and he'd always very adroitly manage to avoid the issue. I never suspected the nature of what was preventing his attendance. Joel kept up maintenance on glibc until literally a few days before his death; his dedication to the Debian project honors all of us, and our dedication of Debian 2.2 is a fitting memorial.
Address-collecting spam robots don't know how to crack ROT13. Do you?
It's true tihs happens.... but is it really bad?
I have a very good friend, that I met online, on the BBSs some half a lifetime ago... and I still refer to him by his handle. Lots of people do.
Do I know his given christian name? Certainly. Do I use it? Occasionally.... it's not that anyone dislikes it...
but referring to him by his handle is more affectionate, more personable.
Didn't you ever have nicknames for your buddies? Did they have some for you? I have some names that people have used to call me for as long as I remember... if I hear those names from someone else, it doesn't even register.
Why do you assume that the 'online personality' is not the individual behind the curtain? Just because someone has a different name online doesn't mean they are any less real.
-- ;-)
Kuro5hin.org: where the good times never end.
Well, it was not a joke. It's dead serious. I expect the advertising industry to be placing ads in the tombs in cemeteries eventually. They want to bombard you with images every second of your life.
A thought? They will start by digitally manipulating televised news reports on the death of famous people to include "banners" on places they aren't.
Are you adequate?
I've never worked with Debian at all. So I may off base here. But I think I have multiple angles on this one.
1. The parent to this mentions the great floods of the Mississippi. Allow me to tell you the story of a town named Lupus, MO. The town has a population of like 20, according to the sign. Before the flood, it was at about 40 people, I'd say, and after back down to 20. We're talking small town. Small enough that I was able to find out that not a single person there would have been able to read this.
Lupus is seperated from the MO river by about 16 feet. A bank along the edge of the river. This town is mostly elderly people, really really nice folks. It's a 45 minute drive to another decent town (because of our hick roads), so you don't often hear about them.
One day, sitting in class, I found out that their bank was about to give to the water pressure. The water was about 4 inches from going over. Someone wanted help, because they didn't have enough people there to work on preparing the town (which was caught by surprise), and our town had a high school of 450 able bodied students.
We were the only school asked. After school, I changed into some mucking clothes and left to help. By the time I got there at around 4:15, there were about 400 volunteers. When I left at around 2 AM, there were probably around 1500. This continued for another several days (our efforts were eventually thwarted).
The best thing is, not a one of us got paid. Many people walked in not knowing other people's names. By the time many people left, they had found friends and many of them. People from rival schools (intense for us- football rivals of two schools that are 15 miles apart, and were on opposite sides of the civil war (which is still held in the grudge)) even became good friends.
The thing is, I can tell you that if they had gone to another school in Missouri plus ours, the turnout would have been massive. Hardly anyone knew the residents, but we're all willing to help. And if it were to happen to another town/city, everyone would help all they could. We heard stories of this up and down both the MO and Mississippi rivers, people banding together from everywhere, not always successful, but that community spirit adds no small victory to the scale. (Off thought: Isn't this what our country was founded on, the banding together of people, reguardless of location, heritage, etc.??)
2. I had a friend while I was in high school. He had autism, as well as MD. The first time I met him I was babysitting a group of second graders. He couldn't talk at all, sat by himself reading the whole night. Halfway through the night, I got called home on a personal emergency. While breifly explaining it to the other helpers, this kid got up, found my keys, and handed them to me before I had gone to get them. (Note: Autistic can't communicate normally, but communicate in their own ways, and are VERY observant.)
At some point I ran into him again. He was playing with Legos, or some blocks. Having a horrid time snapping two of them together. I walked over and tried to help him. At first he relented, but then after another two or so tries handed the two blocks to me. I handed them back together, and he handed me a cookie.
I dunno when I started to take to him, but his parents asked me to babysit more because they noticed I seemed to have some success in controlling his aggravation fits. But I found out, he really was a smart guy, he was a guru at those "find the pattern" games. The kid was curious about things, and could always point out an object without looking (while he could, that is.) He hardly ever said a word, and when he did oddly they eventually made sense. (IE he once said blue when we were walking outside in the cold. It makes a little sense.) You learn though, it's not the name that makes a difference in the world. The kid had emotions, and had his way of expressing them, and ways of telling you things.
You might find it odd that I haven't mentioned his name yet. The Lord bless his soul, but the last word he ever said to me was "Sam".
Wierd how a kid 10 years younger than me damn near made me cry.
Espy, you've touched other people's lives, which is quite an accomplishment without meeting many of them. You have provided us all with something to be sad about, proud of, and inspired by. Congratulations, and God bless.
We don't need no Net Explorer We don't need no Thought control
I also wanted to point out that this is the most appropriate thread of messages I have ever seen after the death of a person has been noted on Slashdot. Negative comments about an individual are never appropriate in the period immediately following their death.
We should all remember what it was like to read these rememberances the next time someone passes away and we are tempted to be critical of them.
--
Dave Aiello
-- Dave Aiello
Well, think of CmdrTaco, Hemos, and all the merry gang here. There real names are arbitrarily assigned at birth, and they have no say in them. But like they point out in the FAQ, their nicks / handles are very personal to them. They actually put some conscious thought into them, and try to reflect a little bit of who they are with them. I would be proud to be remembered as Espy - a person I had declared myself to be - and I'm certain that, wherever he is, Espy is proud of it as well
"I'm not even supposed to BE here today!"
ill probably get a rating of one for this message as I am drunk and cant type properly! I never knew Espy and now I never will, but I have been patiently waiting for Debian 2.2 since before May. All I can say is that I am sorry that someone who appears to be so talented has died in the prime of there life. I am only a year younger (20) and know practicaly nothing! I've wanted to develop for Linux for a while, and Debian has been my favourite distro. For some reason now I am going to force myself to find the time. It seems Joel did a lot of good work for the community and was well respected.. something not many of us can actually claim! Again, all I can say if sorry! Also I am glad that sofar I havent seen any TROLL mesdages, for once some repsect!! Idimmu Xul www.carpathia.force9.co.uk
The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
i am afraid it is to late to attend the funeral. It is always sad when someone young dies. I think the dedication from Debian is the right thing to do for a man who contributed to us debian users.
You know, for all the talk of IPOs, corporate greed, and standards battles making us lose sight of what Free Software is really about, it's nice to see this.
No, Free Software isn't only about community. But it's a big part of it-- you contribute, and an entire WORLD of people will contribute back. Feedback, bug reports, bug fixes... or just an encouraging word on IRC or a mailing list... it all is part of a community. And without that, Free Software wouldn't be nearly as far along as it is today.
Sometimes, the only time we truly see a community at work is under the worst of circumstances. When the banks of the Mississippi River ran over just a few years back, we saw community at work. When TWA flight 800 crashed and killed almost 20 students from a local high school, the community pulled together.
And now we see the loss of a beloved member of the Free Software movement. And, in the tradition of bad situations bringing out the best in a community, we see the same spirit of brotherhood and comeraderie brought forth in a display of love.
It's sad to see Espy go. But it is greatly encouraging to know that his spirit of community is still very much alive. His passing is a lesson of life.
Thanks, Espy.
Most people provide a large amount of information about themselves by the way that they write - word choice, grammar usage, etc. that goes well beyond what your online handle indicates. If anyone, this gentleman you are hosting included, spent enough time online with you they would begin to notice aspects of your personality coming through in the discourse. As social beings, we are attuned to ferreting out information about a person we are talking with. It is more difficult online, to be sure, but many people online can tell sex of a person, their age and much of their likes and dislikes after chatting with them for an extended period.
Rest assured, then, that anyone who was willing to spend the time found out a lot about who you really are; a handle really isn't all that much in terms of protection.
© Copyright 2000 Matthew Yeo
I agree. There's a time and place for everything. One wouldn't try to hold a wake in a tavern that was halfway through Happy Hour. The people who post stories like this are asking for the kind of disrespect heaped on the poor soul (RIP) who has passed away.
It's perhaps time to reassess the prudence of setting up what amounts to an obituary thread on this site. It's just plain in bad taste, because the structure of this board doesn't foster a respectful response.
Please stop pretending this is a 'community' with the kind of maturity these sorts of topics can handle. Have some respect for the dead, Rob.
I really think this is an inappropriate place to troll. I mean I like trolling as much as the next disgruntled /.er (remember the 2 day ramen blitz) but this isnt the right article. Show a little respect.
Just hold your trolls for the next Katz story, the next MS Sucks story, the next RIAA sucks story, or the next rehashing of MSNBC's headlines. Then let 'er rip. But, not here, please.
Espy: I never met you, but you will be greatly missed in the community. Goodbye.
the real shiftaling has user number 5134
Karma: -43 and DROPPING!!!
You read about stuff like this and suddenly realize your problems are really damned insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I don't believe I ever had the pleasure of chatting or working with Espa, but since Debian 2.2 is the distro that runs all my boxes, his work on 2.2 has had an impact on the systems I work with. I'm proud to have some of my work in Debian 2.2 (LCDproc v0.3.4). Thanks, Espa, for all your hard work, and farewell.
Read my stuff.
Everyone has a name given to them by their parents. Some people also get names that are given to them by their friends (or enemies).
I think that a person ought to have the right to choose their own name, even if it's different than the one their parents gave them.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Never in my entire Slashdot user existance have I had to sit down after reading a post.
My friend, that was the most eloquently written post that I have ever read. Thank you.
Rami James
--
rJames.org - illustration
I've got nothing against free speech. What about the rights of cmdrtaco? What about the rights of the family of this poor lad? What are they going to think if someone tells them that there's a tribute to their son/brother/whatever, they look at it and it's covered with this sort of crap.
THIS ISN'T FREE SPEECH, IT'S VANDALISM.
So where do you stand on the freedom to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre? Are you in favor of that sort of free speech? Or what about the freedom to ring 911/999 hundreds of times a day with prank calls? Or what about the freedom of me to call you a pedophile and post your name and address on the web, in your local newspaper.
So yes, I am in favor of free speech as long as it doesn't go too far. I'm assuming your from USA and if you check your enshrined freedoms then you might find that the freedom that you love is exactly what you called me a loser for.
But I forgot, the current Slashdot mentality is to insult rather than discuss or think about a subject, it's a lot easier isn't it?
If you've ever been within earshot of the Debian developers when the release cycle is running, you know that no Debian release is a minor undertaking. Countless people put in a huge amount of work; not just developers, but QA people, testers, documenters, translators..
:) )
I can't think of a Debian release as long as I've been using it (Since 0.9x) that wasn't a big deal, in all honesty. (Well.. 1.3 wasn't a huge deal, but it was still significant
One day, he said, "I am not disabled. The world disables me." And he is right. He was a brilliant student who not only struggled with Duchenne's but also with dyslexia. When he overcame his learning disability, he excelled in his education (everything but math, actually). He was a smart guy, but most people, who didn't get to know him, treated him as if his mind was as useless and frail as his body.
The point of all this is that Joel was two people. One was a disable person, who was treated a certain way by people who didn't understand his condition, as if he was not capable of offering anything of value to society - they disrespected him because of his disabilities. The other was Espy, and people respected him for his abilities, and understood that he offered value to the world.
I am not speaking for Espy, but I think he would be satisfied knowing that people care about him, and understood him for who he really was inside. The internet offered that opportunity to him, he took it, and excelled in a way he would never have been able to as Joel, in the "real" world.
I cannot say absolutely, but I think Espy is Joel's REAL name, for it represents his talents and abilities, and not his disabilities.
I didn't know Espy. I wish I had known him. But then, I wouldn't have known he had Duchenne's, and I would have treated him like everyone else. Just what my brother always wanted, and just what I think Espy wanted. Now his name will be honored as Joel "Espy" Klecker ... where both aspects of him meet and tell the real story of who he was as a human being.
Just my 2 cents, and I apologize if people feelI am assuming too much about Espy's life.
Really funny, actually -- I was laughing pretty hard, mainly at the subject line. Funny in a very black way, like ^moa said, and just like any black humor (or any humor), I wouldn't expect everyone to agree. Just because people find it funny doesn't mean we don't have sympathy for the situation -- my condolences to his friends and family, and I hope he's spiritually gone to a better place where he no longer has to suffer his disease.
About your semi-rant, I agree that nothing's sacred anymore, but I don't think the original poster was seriously advertising anything. My own pet peeves on the matter: (1) People who love to yuk it up over a comical death like you find in "News of the Weird," but then get bent out of shape at "the insensitivity!" of things like JFK Jr. or Princess Di jokes. Just because someone died in a weird way doesn't mean that their own family is grieving any less. (2) The whole modern notion that anything that is "shocking-for-the-sake-of-being-shocking" is automatically supposed to be funny. Sam Kinison said shocking things, but they had a very strong comedic backing -- nowadays, people think they're being funny by saying things that would fit better on a 4th-grade playground and throwing in plenty of obscenities (See: Def Comedy Jam or a lot of the posts at this web site, or the trolls who enter a fan-oriented newsgroup right after the subject of the fandom has died).
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Cheers,
I never knew you well but I will miss you just the same.
ACK
Alex, as one of the people who used to call you Scorp and later tried just as hard to stop being called Bluey, I wanted to let you know I agree personally. I think, however, it's more of a personal thing. Many people don't mind in the slightest being called by their handle.
;) don't necessarily think of me in a different or any less real way than those who know me as "Mikey". I still prefer Mikey though.
Do you think that everyone from the board who knew you as Scorp only knew you for your online persona? There were enough real-life get togethers and friendships developed that everyone got to know each other personally. I had never heard of "Epsy" before this story, but I assume he probably talked enough with others to get to know them well and I feel like the same thing happened with many of us, though we had the advantage of meeting all the time to speed up the process.
I think the reason I began to prefer Mikey over Bluey was that I was enjoying the real-life get togethers more than the online get togethers. In my mind, I felt as you did about being known by my name instead of my handle. I've realized now that people who know of me as "Bluey" (such as Poonuts
Mikey
i didn't know Espy all that well, but i'll miss him. from talking to him on irc, i felt he was a very competent, friendly guy. he'll be missed by a lot of people, including all us #mklinux guys. a couple days before the debian 2.2 dedication announcement, i noticed he wasn't in the channel. i was pretty surprised to read about his death (i didn't know he had the disease). i'll miss him. it's strange not seeing '@Espy' in the channel list. it's always sad to lose a developer from the community. rest in peace, Espy.
This kind of thing really makes me think
I never met, knew or even heard of Espy
I dont use debian, and prefer other distros to it greatly
But I still recognize how great of a loss to the community this is, and it is just amazing how things trickle down with open source. Though i dont use his code, the changes he made with Debian inspired changes with the distros that I use and with other open source projects
Im sure Espy will be remembered fondly by all, and his contributions to our open source community that has givin so much to me were great
-Joey
I have just donated $100 to the Duchenne MD funds in honor of Espy. Though i may not have run in to him as much as others, i think giving so much cheerfullness and knowhow to the world while your fighting your own horible battle is an example we all can admire and respect. My condolences to any friends and family of Espy. May he rest in peace, and may his work continue thru the hands of others
-- Chris Chabot
"I dont suffer from insanity, i enjoy every minute of it!"
Google results 1-10 of about 4,860 for espy joel klecker. Search took 3.91 seconds.
It's neat with todays technology on how we all can be remembered... It's quite sad to run back and see the outline of life through your a search engine in a way, but it's also interesting to see. Espy accomplished very much through his journey...
RIP Espy, I hope Debian will still shine with his light.
Who's the black private dick, who's a sex machine for all the chicks?
Farwell sir, and thank you for your fine work
Man needs a God about as much as a fish needs a bike