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Pentium 4 Requires New Case And Power Supply
An unnamed correspondent writes: "It turns out that, for the Pentium 4, we're all going to need to buy a new case and power supply. The standard heatsink will weigh 450g (about 1 pound) and will therefore need four supports below the CPU, supports that require a new motherboard tray. Also, the Pentium 4 will need a new power supply with a new four-connector plug. This means that, if you want a Pentium 4, your old case and power supply will have to go. :( SE has more on it in their IDF Report." A little like AT / ATX and all the cousins; it's not that surprising that something has to give, but a shame that some of today's very nice cases will have to be tossed or modified to fit the P4.
This situation sounds rather like a blast back into the past when a VAX 11/780 produced enough heat to keep your house warm.
And there are other perspectives from which it doesn't make sense, particularly the "IA-64" perspective. I thought that Intel was trying to start off a migration process to the New And Improved 64 bit IA-64 platform. Releasing Still More Pentiums doesn't seem terribly sensible.
On the other hand, people may react to this properly, thus:
and conclude that they should look to the "kinder, gentler, lighter-heat-sinked" IA-64 systems.If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Socklet[0] A was necessary for technical reasons
new bus and all). Intel's socklet wasn't.
[0] Convenient general term for slot and socket, since they are often pin-for-pin compatable.
A Pentium IV is not the same as a Pentium III.
It has a 20 stage pipeline instead of 10 stage, a 400 MHz system bus instead of 133 Mhz, SSE2 with 144 new instructions, an "advanced transfer cache", and other changes.
There's an article describing some of the differences here.
On the other hand the PIII 1.13 GHz really is just an overclocked PIII 1 Ghz. That's probably the source of your confusion.
Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
"HTML needs a rant tag" - Alan Cox
Yeah, but the trouble is that this time around it's because Intel has gone knockers over trying to outdo AMD as far as clock speed is concerned. Yes, you can run an "ordinary" P3 750 at 1,3 GHz, but only if you stress it to the point of being able to cook your dinner on it. It's not exactly breakthrough engineering, though, so why bother requiring different cases because you've just thought up the corporate answer to millions of people overclocking their CPU's "just for the hell of it"?
What this new move shows is that Intel is growing increasingly desperate because they apparently can't seem to get the Itanium (or what's it called today) out fast enough and there's this little company called AMD whipping their ass by releasing overclocked versions of their *slightly* surperior design (Athlon). It also shows that Intel is afraid AMD will eat up their marketshare if they don't come up with some kludge to make it seem at least as if they're keeping up. A company more secure about its prospects would simply shrug and continue to work on their superior (maybe) next generation design. Witness how Microsoft has, for years, simply ignored the threat of Linux because they didn't *perceive* it as a threat. In the same way Intel used to ignore AMD back in the K6 days. Now that there's an Athlon, they start to resort to idiocy such as enforcing the special brew heatsinks made by OverClockers Inc. as a new *standard*.
News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
Actually AMD went to Digital's Slot A because Intel patented their Slot 1 and was charging obscene licensing fees for it. And since people are *already* buying a different mobo built specifically for Athlons, I don't buy the argument that this form factor switch is meant to tip the scales against AMD. The mobo/processor is so much more expensive than a $40 power supply that it really doesn't make a damn bit of difference WHAT case you use. The vast majority of people purchase their computers prebuilt anyway, and don't care whether the case will fit their old motherboard.
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
As for the sparcs, their high temperature is justified, and, since they run on custom hardware anyway, it can be designed for this.
At the other end of the spectrum, we have Apple with its nice, cool, but still extremely powerful G4s. They may not be as powerful as the fastest x86 cpus, but mhz per mhz they are far superior, and are also cooler than the processors they approximately equal.
Is the P4 the same as the Itanium/Willamette? I thought P4 was an *inbetween* stage, waiting for Intel to finally ship their next generation CPU. This is what all publications (both online and offline) I read had me believe.
P4 is the same thing as Willamette. Itanium (aka Merced, aka ia64) is a totally different CPU.
How come they require such an enormous heatsink if they've revamped the engineering?
I think it's because it will be in the 1.5-2 GHz range. Note that power increases almost as the cube of the clock speed because at the same time, you increase the switching rate, the voltage (so you can switch faster) and the current. (that's also why Transmeta's CPU was so low-power when it ran at lower clock)
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
AMD list on their web site what power supplies are approved for Athlon. If you're building your own system then go with one of these and you can't go wrong. If you want to cheap out with a 250W supply, then good luck to you!
By the end of the year AMD will have moved to their new Mustang "corvette" core which massively cuts power requirements and enables mobile athlons. This is what I'm waiting for to upgrade (Mustang/DDR) - not Intel's space heater P4!
Don't hold back, I'm dying to know how it turned out.
If any processor needs the kind of power that only this new type of motherboard can accomidate, and then needs to radiate it away with a one pound(!) heatsink, the processor has problems, not the case/motherboard/power supply technology.
Who are you to say that the processor has problems simply because it has a large heat sink? Do people question putting in side impact beams in cars? "There must be something wrong with the car if it needs side impact beams, the doors must be flimsy". Do people question the fact that in order to drive your old Pinto with it's brand new Ferarri engine installed, you will probably have to upgrade the tires to drive at full speed?
You and me may not agree with Intel's design philosophy, but that doesn't mean that they are manufacturing a faulty processor... it just means that their design goals do not include cheaper, more efficient, cooler, lower power consumption for their main stream processors. They want to make the fastest x86 chip possible and because of many reasons, the solutions they come up with to create newer and "better" chips are not exactly going to be elegant.
The case unit with 1 Hard disk drive installed weighs ~139 pounds. IBM does not recomend moving this unit without assitance to prevent injuries
That is theft deterence!
Read my plan to save the Bengals
[NEWS, Nov. 1, 2002] The recent and intense global warming of the planet, over 7 C in just 14 months, is finally explained. International research centers using 12 observation satellites discovered the heat increase came from a new breed of microprocessors from Intel Corporation, the "Pentium IV". The heat generated by thousands of Pentium IV processors since its introduction in 2001 is being held responsible for the rise of sea-levels which caused the death of over 500 million people throughout the world and the flooding of 23% of all emerged lands of the planet.
In a net interview with Andy Grove, chairman of Intel Corp. who is now living on a giant floating base above what was Los Angeles, he declared "We are pleased our new Pentium IV processor had the effect our PR staff predicted: DEVASTATING!". He also announced Intel was actively working on a new "hot" processor, but complained their research was "limited by the available energy available in our solar system". The interview was interrupted by a sudden power failure.
-- It's always darker before it goes pitch black.
Two questions, though:
I'm really wondering now, ignorant shit that I turned out to be.
News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
Just a few points...
Find me a SCSI harddrive that can match my Maxtor DiamondMax 20 at the same price
Well, if Intel had pushed for onboard SCSI instead of going with IDE, maybe we could be using Ultra160 drives at the price of current IDE drives.
USB was a decent technology that freed up those IRQs.
The technology is OK, but the implementation sucks. Try distinguishing between two mice, two keyboards, or two of anything without unique IDs connected to USB.
USB 2.0 might not be as good as firewire, but do you really want to pay Apple licensing fees?
Stop repeating that bit of misinformation, OK? Licensing fees for Firewire (which are a puny $1 per machine) go to a non-profit consortium formed by companies using Firewire, of which Apple is only one. As for USB 2.0, come back when there's actually hardware available.
As for AGP, I'd really like to see a performance benchmark of PCI vs. AGP.
I've seen such benchmarks; the difference is minimal until you get up to AGPx4. In fact, for most people there is no detectable difference.
for those people with 4MBers, AGP is a godsend.
I'm really not sure what you meant to say here.
They wanted backside cache, and a slot was the only way to do it at the time.
Not true. Apple was able to do it with G3's without moving to a slot architecture.
Slot1 isn't as closed as you think. AMD's license with Intel would have allowed them to use it as well.
Untrue. It was precisely because Intel had the Slot1 specifications locked up with patents that AMD had to select a different bus architecture for the Athlon.
Computers are getting to be the geek equivalent of giant SUVs driven by soccer moms. Seriously. All these people who don't do anything except surf the web and play MP3s and download pr0n and twiddle with their kernels...and they have monstrous machines with four fans and two pound heatsinks. It's starting to get to be very annoying in the same way.
Actually, ATX has done a lot to help cool off the CPU. (It turns the thing so that the CPU is closer to the power supply fan.) Also, due to the reorganization, ATX boards usually can fit more PCI slots than baby-AT boards.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
You have to take your chances on SlashDot, not to mention the sources people use in their postings. I recall the recent Mac Cube episode. Someone leaked what turned out to be accurate photos of the the thing, yet one guy did an elaborate analysis of how it had to be a hoax faked in Photoshop. You never know until you know.
:)
On the bright side, where else can you see such a collection of flamers and trolls every single day of the week, every hour of the day?
news:alt.revenge
For stupidity, histrionics, flames, trolls, and studied viciousness even SlashDot can't hold a candle to it.
Face it, procs are going to use more heat. Why NOT run your proc at 1.3 GHz. A fan costs maybe $10-$15, and I'd pay that for the extra 350MHz. As long as there are no stability concerns (and there don't seem to be any) what's the problem? Also, as far as I can tell, the Athlon uses significantly more power and makes a lot more heat than a PIII. The increased heat and power usage of CPUs are a unilateral trend. Witness those Alphas that take nearly 90 watts of power! I doubt a UltraSparc takes less current than a PIII. In fact, in power/heat department Intel isn't the worst.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Apple designs their computers as complete units, including the cooling system.
Note that the heat sink on the G4 is about the same size as the one on my Alpha 433 (which sucks down more juice than even the most power hungry Athlon)
Neither the alpha nor the G4 have an on heat-sink fan, but they both have carefully designed cases that channel the air that's blowing out the fan on the case right over the heatsink.
Not really defending Intel (if this rumor is true), but this pro G4 bullshit is getting pretty extreme. Its a pretty good chip, but its still too hungry for laptops. There is a very good reason the laptop I'm typing these words on has a 500Mhz G3 rather than a G4.
You are in a minority. Most people, especially businesses, buy a box from a vendor and use it as is. It is usually not cost effective to upgrade the system. Replacing a motherboard is a major waste of time and money. It is cheaper to replace it with a new box.
Most LX boards are ATX. In fact, I can remember ATX boards being common for the later socket 7 boards.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Don't discount the value of a nice case. Especially for people who *do* do a lot of upgrading, having a case that makes such things easy is a Good Thing. Cheap cases may have poor circulation, causing overheating, or be too flimsy, causing high-RPM drives to vibrate and eventually damage themselves. Stamped edges that haven't been finsished can cut you, and inadequite motherboard support can cause PCI cards to not seat well. Inferior power supplies may drop out under load or heat, and damage peripherals (I have had this happen 3 times with cheap cases--that is a major reason I get high quality stuff, too).
Like my monitor, I consider a high quality case to be an investment that will last through several CPU generations. Having to go buy a new one (If I weren't going to switch to AMD) would not kill me, but it is rather annoying.
Why oh why is this such a big fucking deal? In 2001 the Itanium is going to be spit out of the giant Fabrige egg that is Intel why are you letting the stopgap measure known at the P4 cloud your vision? My old Katmai P3 500 works pretty damn well at most everything I use it for. The so-called P4 is nothing more than a testbed for die techniques and code morphing to be included into later generations of Intel chips. For you and I running Quake 3 we're not going to see terrible improvement in anything. We need to move past this 32-bit kludge we've been stuck in for the past decade. What awaits us is 64-bit gigahertz goodness. Fuck the P4, I want some soma.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Now, are we _sure_ that this report is real? I've not been on Slashdot too long, but I've seen more retracted/inaccurate stories listed here than I feel comfortable to admit. Don't get me wrong, love the site, but I'm afraid I need to take it with a whole grain of salt - make that a whole shaker.
I'm going to have nightmares of a midget being torn from a cylindrical, beeping robot, screaming about one pound heatsinks and producing robot offspring...
---
That's because Intel keeps FUCKING with us. They lie, they release crappy products, they make absurd FUD-filled product roadmaps they have
no intention of fulfilling, they release products that do not ship in sufficient quantities,
>>>>>>>
Exactly what "crappy" products has Intel released? As far as I can remember, the fastest chip on the block is still the PIII 1.13 GHz. At least according to SysMark2000 (a script of 8 common applications) and Quake. Check out the reviews of the 1.1GHz Athlon at www.sharkyextreme.com. What FUD filled road-maps? Sure Itanium has been delayed several times, but hell, all chip-makers have these problems. For example, AMD and it's long delayed K5.
they perpetuate old out-dated worthless technology
(x86, ISA, IDE, etc.),
>>>>>>
x86 chips are the price/performance leaders for most things. They tried to kill ISA two or three years ago, but consumers wouldn't let it die. Intel in no way pushes IDE that hard, I think the PC market in general does that. Show me an alternative! Find me a SCSI harddrive that can match my Maxtor DiamondMax 20 at the same price (20GB for $150). Didn't think so.
and the new technology they do promote is almost always totally bass-ackwards, and designed primarily to either grab
more marketshare, or defend marketshare they have to the death, by any means other than what you'd logically think would be the BEST way to
get marketshare: make faster, more stable, more affordable chips than the competition. (USB, Slot1, AGP, etc.)
>>>>>>>>
As for pushing technologies to gain market share, that's what companies do, live with it. However, in recent memory, all of Intel's desicions have been pretty good. USB was a decent technology that freed up those IRQs. PCI was a whole lot better than VLB. USB 2.0 might not be as good as firewire, but do you really want to pay Apple licensing fees? As for AGP, I'd really like to see a performance benchmark of PCI vs. AGP. Not all of us can afford 32MB cards, and for those people with 4MBers, AGP is a godsend. Slot1 was a mistake. However, what was their alternative? They wanted backside cache, and a slot was the only way to do it at the time. AMD had to do it too. (BTW> Slot1 isn't as closed as you think. AMD's license with Intel would have allowed them to use it as well.)
And most infuriatingly, the main reason Intel seems to succeed is because stupid people buy into their "Intel Inside" campaign, that a PIII makes
surfing the internet faster.
>>>>>>>
You can't judge a company on marketing speak. Let's see, the recent Suse Slashdot banner touts Suse 6.4 as the best OS ever. That's why Linux sucks! However, you can judge them by the fact that right now, the PIII is the fastest Quake chip.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
9 months ago, I bought an AMD Athlon 650 for $500. Turns out it was faulty and the problem showed up worse as the weather got warmer. Past couple of months, the system wouldn't run for 15 minutes without serious instability. Processor guarantee was only 30 days so I decided to bite the bullet and get a new one. Well, I was going to upgrade to 700 or 750MHz while I was about it but AMD has discontinued *all* slot A processors. Bear in mind that I bought the 650 shortly after the 700Mhz was announced (I wanted to get a 700 but couldn't get my hands on one). I was facing having to splash out for a new motherboard as well as the processor less than a year after I'd bought the originals. In the end, the best I could get was another 650 and that was the only slot A processor the place had left.
Rich
I couldn't agree more, especially with multiple drives... I had problems with this, not lessened by the fact i belted the case out a bit..., I usually always buy a separate 300W powersupply, ignoring salespeople who say the 220 or 250 supplied will be "more than you could ever use"... Hmmm, 4 10,000 rpm drives, P-III, several USB devices, Viper card, SCSI adapter, DVD decoder, SCSI CDR and IDE DVD and several bay fans... Sorry, I prefer not to risk it...
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
I went from a 200mhz 604e with a HUGE HONKIN' HEATSINK (but it didn't need a fan on the heatsink) to a 300mhz G3 that gets easily twice as much done (easily verifiable on, say, renders in POV) and has a tiny purple heatsink the size of an ornate postage stamp. And still no CPU fan. :)
You are most breathtakingly wrong :)
I'm still using my 486 with VISA buss mobo and it works quite well, thank you.
Six years ago I invested in that 486 because Intel promised backward compatibility for future Pentium processors. They dropped the ball. The only upgrade then was a new motherboard, and my integrity in Intel was destroyed. That's 1/2 the reason I am leaving the Wintel platform.
I refuse to keep up with the Joneses by replacing my PC every 1.5 years; I got my own retirement to fund, not theirs. I can get at least ten years out of an automobile, and I expect to get that much out of my PC.
CPU replacements should be as simple as swapping a chip or subboard, but *don't* make me buy a complete new system. We've already got more than enough disposable non-bidegradable junk sitting in our landfills.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Star Trek movies worked the same way, the odd numbered ones sucked.
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
Okay, so we got this new P4 thing that weighs tons, draws more power than it takes to wake up Godzilla, and could replace your home furnace, but then we got this G4 thing that doesn't even need a fan and yet still seems to be twice as efficient for the megahurts. Now guess which one I want...
Only two itsy complaints: (1) why didn't Apple put more expansion bays in the PMac G4?, and (2) Why is it still 500 MHz? How do you go about overclocking the dang thing?
Anyone ever tried to get a G4 mobo in an ATX case? I'd take a drill and hacksaw to mine (even though it's a really nice case) if I could get a G4 to fit in, just for those extra bays. Anyway, wouldn't a beige ATX tower with a Mac inside look cool? How about funny?
I used to believe this but my CPU runs about 4C hotter with the case closed than open. And yes, I have installed an extra case fan. Rich
Actually, *I'm* just thinking down the road to what the first P4 laptops are going to be like... :-)
Intel and the laptop designers had better watch out on this one...
After all, didn't that little old lady get millions when the McDonalds coffee scorched her lap?
Personal injury lawyers take heed!
Would this mean that the Intel Inside sticker would qualify as a warning?
MAB
Bad news: It won't fit in an old case.
Worse news: Here's the new case design!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Intel seems to be doing this a lot lately. They're trying to control the whole computer by leveraging their market share in CPUs. If you want to use Intel's CPU, you have to use the case that Intel dictates. I suspect that they'll have a lot of influence over this case design.
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END OF LINE
My old case is busting at the seams to hold all that pron, anyway.
`
Warning: It is a federal offense to impersonate The President.
As for the new power supplies, I actually prefer this arrangement to AMD's schtick with Athlons. Sure, it will take any old power supply, but it won't behave right for most of them.
New board, new cases, new RAM, new peripherals. It happens. It's expensive. Get over it. Do you really want old technology sticking around just because we're stubborn? (ISA, coff coff).
My mom is not a Karma whore!
In the Macintosh world, a number of machines
are easily upgradeable by installing a processor
card. This with even old machines (like PowerMac
6100's, can be found for under $50) to G3's -- despite some fairly serious motherboard differences.
I can't imagine that somebody wouldn't want to try this for PC processor upgrades. Could make a bundle (unless it cost more to do than buying a new motherboard and power supply).
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
Try and picture what a Z80 at 200mzh to 1gzh..
The Z80 is great and is still used for simple appliences (Remote controls use the Z8 but I'm not talking that simple.. the larg sat dish boxes use the Z80..I don't know what direct TV uses but I suspect something more powerful is used)
But the z80 wouldn't hold up well against a Pentium...
The pentium dosn't hold up well against the G4, AMD chips or the Sparc...
We allready went past RISC and entering Code morphing... More over X86 isn't even 1980s tech.. it's still very burnned in the 8 bit procesor design. The 680X and 6800X represent the 1980s technology and RISC 1990s...
Thankfully Intel has chips that do not have procesor structure dating back to the 4004...
But the Pentium 4 isn't it...
I'd expect a one pound heat sink on a 500 mzh Z80...
Try building a game console as powerful as the playstation with the same tech used to build the Channel F... Could it be done? Hack yeah...
And you'd have the worlds larggest building while you were art it...
I don't actually exist.
Intel could care less about the people who are worried about having to replace their cases. People who are upgrading processors, almost by definition, are buying in very small quantities. Nearly always, one and sometimes two at a time. Corporation have been turned off to component upgrades. It's cheaper for them to buy a whole new system than to pay someone to upgrade systems individually, and then incur all the other compatability problems that won't be covered by a warranty.
Since their big customers are buying whole new systems anyway, it's no problem to specify a new case and PS design. Dell and Gateway will make a few changes that will be amortized to nothing over the 100,000 units they will build.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
It takes a lot to keep those radio tubes cool. I have a vision of one day being able to fit a whole processor on a silicon wafer no larger than the tip of my pinky finger. You laugh, but just wait...
Is it me, or is Intel really trying to make things awkward with the Pentium IV? I can understand IA64 chips requiring a new case - they are meant for high end server applications anyway - but for a processor which is consumer/workstation level to require new cases and power supplies...
Of course it isn't that hard a requirement, it is just that these new cases will cost a lot initially because they will be an unusual shape. It might also take a while for the non-beige cases to appear as well.
Standards are good. AT, ATX, MicroATX etc. I am sure that this will be ATX+, or ATX2, or something.
It is also a bad reflection on the Pentium 4's power consumption - and Intel want to put this baby in laptops by the end of next year!
" ...when will they find a clue?"
Perhaps when they no longer make revenues of more than $30 Billion a year...
We often tend to doubt these 'captains of industry' from the safety of our armchairs, here on slashdot, but few of us can ever hope to approach this kind of success. How can we possibly know what is savvy or correct at that scale? I think I'll side with the expert considerations of the people that run such a monstrous company than the consummer-centric bashing this mob has to offer. Intel is perfectly aware of their competition.
:)Fudboy
:)Fudboy
I guess I'm only a Fudboy, looking for that real Transmeta
*reread*
Oh- 'W2K'. My condolences. If you ever do actually get an iMac, rather than just making stuff up on slashdot, hope you figure out how to throw away 90% of the crud and cruft it ships with :)
*g* anecdotal evidence != 'open mind'. I hammer on my ol' upgraded 9500 day in day out for years on end and never need to take it anywhere to get it fixed. It's the most user-maintainable thing you could want, doesn't exhibit 'OS rot' like windows installations. Given initiative I could go find software to crash it and freeze it (hell, I use netscape every day, and that is the _king_ of non-deterministic crashability- months go by without a hitch and then WHAM WHAM WHAM *g*) but why should I, when I have tons of apps, including ones I can write myself, that don't crash?
*hee* some open mind there, fellow slashdot user #210999 ;) next you'll be saying that linux can't be used on the desktop ;)
Here's the full spec in PDF format.
Just think about it for a second. Intel is designing computers with built-in theft deterrent systems. Who want's to steal a desktop when they're guaranteed a hernia just for picking the damn thing up?
:p
I'm certainly deterred by the P4, and I guess that's the real proof this is a Theft-Deterrent because according to the RIAA I'm a thief.
Steven
--
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
Well, if Intel had pushed for onboard SCSI instead of going with IDE, maybe we could be using Ultra160 drives at the price of current IDE drives.
>>>
Intel wasn't the first company in the core logic chipset game. Nearly all of the early PC chipsets used IDE. It wasn't until much later that Intel started making chipsets, and at that point, IDE was already entrenched. You can't fault Intel for just doing like everybody else when they made their first chipsets.
I've seen such benchmarks; the difference is minimal until you get up to AGPx4. In fact, for most people there is no detectable difference.
>>>
Those benchmarks are for cards like the Voodoo series (up to V5) that don't use AGP effectivly. I'm talking about REAL AGP cards.
for those people with 4MBers, AGP is a godsend.
>>>>>>>
If you've only got 4MB of local graphics RAM, you're sure as hell going to see the difference between AGP and PCI. And that's not that uncommon. A lot of cheap comps come with only 4MB of memory but AGP 4x.
Not true. Apple was able to do it with G3's without moving to a slot architecture.
Untrue. It was precisely because Intel had the Slot1 specifications locked up with patents that AMD had to select a different bus architecture for the Athlon.
>>>>>>>>
Read MaximumPC (or maybe boot's) interview with AMD's President. He specifically says that they have a cross-license agreement with Intel that would allow them to use Slot1, but used SlotA for the higher performance.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
In the final analysis we can know what is savvy or correct at that scale much the same way we know what is savvy or correct at any scale- by looking at it and listening to people who know something about it. There are an awful lot of slashdotters with special knowledge on one thing or another, and many of them post. There are also a lot of slashdotters who say nonsensical things (like "All CPUs consume lots more power as they get more capable", which is not only contradicted by reality but obliterated by the nanotech concept for computations), and there's no label on them reading 'total fool, disregard'. You have to figure that out for yourself.
Personally, when I am confronted with a syllogism like "We often tend to doubt these 'captains of industry' from the safety of our armchairs, here on slashdot, but few of us can ever hope to approach this kind of success.", I find it much easier to stick on the 'total fool, disregard' label. But it can be fun to explain _why_ such a judgement gets made. Someone might even learn something :)
I wonder how many wats the power supply will be, I thought I remember hearing it was gonna be some insane number like 800W, but dont take my word on that one.
But seriously, why does Intel keep doing this. Obviously you cant just keep making the processor larger and larger, and give it more and more power, why dont they try and innovate a little, or a least if they do, tell us about it sometime. I haven't seem much of anything about the 'new' core they have on this thing.
All they are right now are professional overclockers, and they suck at it too.
-- Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people. Guns just make bullets go really, really fast.
So sue me, don't you think I've spent enough on my machine already? :)
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
Heh... so all I have to do is buy an Athlon, eh?
Last I checked, I had to throw out my AMD K6II and my 256MB of RAM and my mobo to upgrade. So what if I have to toss my $65 case and power supply, too? As long as there's enough competition, the new ones shouldn't cost much more.
Quoting from an article on The Register back on August 22:
Albert Yu was asked if he could give a rough idea of when a 2GHz Pentium might ship. Although his response was "I have no idea", Barrett intervened to say that he wasn't at liberty to divulge it. However, Barrett added that the demo used no special cooling. The part was air-cooled.
A 450g heatsink requiring a new case isn't special???? What next?
SANTA CLARA (AFU-NEWS) Today silicon circuit behemoth Intel demoed the Pentium 4 CPU clocked at 2.5GHz The presence of an anchor from the Queen Mary bolted to the top of the CPU was described by Albert Yu, Senior Intel VP, as "normal cooling." Versions of the CPU running at lower clock speeds could be cooled by bolting them to anvils, manhole covers and recycled steel plates from the heads of Intel marketing folks. "A special cabinet may be required," he added.
Vote Naked 2000
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Besides the technological advance, as Sid Meier's would have called it, this might have a huge impact on the market as it will definitely slow down the sales because of people's looking forward to increase the price/perfomance of their next purchase.
We saw the same phenomenon when Microsoft announced Windows95 without delivering it, hence slowing down the sales of people like Norton or whoever else having the 95 version of their products ready but without the possibility of selling neither W95 nor W3x versions as the market was congested by a constipated giant.
Now, you didn't tell us about the RAM but I also think the standard will, once again change here and only big OEMs (Dell, Compaq, etc.) will win while small OEMs might have much more problems with their existing stock which price they have to cut even shorter.
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Trolling using another account since 2005.
what the living hell are those freaky guys over at intel thinking anyways? this leaves no upgrade path for existing intel customers, unless they can make more "overdrive" processors for slot-1 and -2 mobos. which means that anyone who wants a p4 is going to need a new case & power supply, mobo, and cpu. oh, and probably some rambus rdram.
meanwhile, back in sunnyvale, amd offers smaller, faster, better cpus which actually provide an upgrade path for existing customers.
it seems like intel just keeps getting more and more introverted. when will they find a clue?
perhaps once the low-end celeron-style p4s come out, they will have some sort of upgrade path...
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One thing I just thought about: If this is indeed factual, and you will *require* a new case, will Intel patent the design of said case? If you want to run a P-IV are you going to have to buy an OFFICIAL Pentium-IV(or at least Intel sanctioned) case?
Another thing-- Unless they change where the IO block is (where the keyboard, serial, and mouse connectors are), perhaps you could drop it in an ATX case and build your own heat sink? Or will Intel indeed change the very form factor to keep us from doing this?
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
Power Power Power! Everything is needing more frikken power! My damned room is gonna sound like a jet airplace by the time I start upgrading to new equipement. POwer plants around the country are going to have to increased thier output because a few thousand people need to power up thier machines. And my damned hyrdo bill is gonna cost me a fortune.
By any chance does this new case generate its own power aswell? Do I just have to replace a rat and or a wheel every six months to run my system?
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
Back in the 40's - 50's people did have to upgrade their home wiring and fuse box to accomodate new-fangled electrical appliances at the time, that were using way more current than what previous appliances did. These appliances were:
Clothes Dryers
Hot Water Heaters
Dish Washers
Air Conditioners
As well as the plethora of other small appliances coming out. Houses simply weren't wired to take the load.
However, I am sure before we see the need for such drastic measures for a computer, we will have a public outcry for better, more efficient software...
I support the EFF - do you?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Intel is releasing a chip that will require modifications to ATX.
Therefore, it would be worthwhile to assume this chip will consume over 100 watts.
BTW, S300 (Russian SA missile launcher system) control center contains built-in crane for moving one of the blocks. (Hope I would not be sued for this... Well, karma is more important.)
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Every secretary using MSWord wastes enough resources
Merriam-Webster defines a case as:
1 a : a box or receptacle for holding something b : a box together with its contents
2 a : an outer covering or housing
My "case" covers nothing and only serves as a receptacle for dust! It sits wide open with various parts hanging out of it at any given time. Why is this P4 going to change anything?
If my new heatsink needs support, I'll buy it a bra with underwire......
Well.. I guess that's progress...
Slashdot seems to have anti-Intel mania! Let's see, how may chips HAVEN'T required new cases? Upgrading from socket7 -> Slot 1 usually took a new power supply, 486-> Pentium did too (AT -> ATX) and for my Dell 300MHz, upgrading to an Athlon is going to require a new case and power supply as well. (Dell makes very small power supplies.) Seriously, though, it's not Intel's fault. You're complaining that a 1.5GHz chip takes more power. Well, duh! Most Athlon upgrades take more power too. As for the extra power connecters, at 1.5+GHz, there are probably too many electrical concerns to not put them in. The screws probably can't be helped either. This sucker is going to make a lot of heat, and I don't think Intel wants another Slot1 fiasco (chips flopping out of the slot.) AMD's new Athlons aren't going to be any better, in fact, at .15micron (compared to .13 micron) they're going to make even more heat (Athlon's do anyway) and use more current than the P4.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Looks like Intel decided that we're out of shape and need to get a workout in. Could you imagine if you got a dual P4 -- or God forbid, a quad? Shit, you're talking over 4 pounds in heat sink alone! Let alone the power supply, sheet metal for the case, and the air conditioner to cool your room down (the heat has to go somewhere doesn't it?). Move all this stuff around a couple times and you'll be ripped!
On the other hand, I guess you could toss out the fireplace and just roast marshmallows by the warmth of your computer.
(singing) Chestnuts roasting on an open case...
Assuming this is true, it makes you wonder what the hell they think they're doing with their chips. A heatsink that's too big to fit in current standard cases? Sounds like a standard overclocker's nightmare . . . and kinda suggests that's what Intel's doing . . .
The scariest thing is that these P4 chips aren't going to be any faster, clock for clock, than Athlons (again, assuming that articles I've seen around are reasonably reliable). Why can't Intel manage to come up with something like that? Why do they have to keep on using a brute force solution (More clock speed! And damn the torpedoes(sp?)) to something that AMD seems to have found a relatively elegant solution to?
Argh . . . Just one more reason to lose respect for those suckas . . .
himi
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My very own DeCSS mirror.
Someone already has.
Evergreen Technologies has the Accelera PCI which takes a Celeron CPU and a PC100 SODIMM on a PCI card. However, this doesn't yield as much gain as the apple upgrades, since PCI wasn't built with the bandwidth necessary to support an extra CPU.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
A one pound heatsink? I don't think we'll be seeing the P4-powered laptop anytime soon. Then again, what are you doing with your laptop that you need more than 800MHz or so?
This is going to kill my karma but there's no way I can keep quite ....
... I hear there's this company called AMD and they make decent CPUs that cost less and give comparable if not better performance to the Intel chips, but for hundreds less! I'm sick of this attitude that for stability and reliability you buy Intel. It's single minded purchasing like this that keeps innovation out of the marketplace.
:)
Ok, if you're unhappy about Intel why sit there and whine about it? Do something that will make Intel think twice about pulling dumb shit like this. BUY A COMPETING CHIP! I know it's crazy but
Disclaimer: I run and AMD Athalon 800 / Soyo SY-K7VIA / Geforce256 / SB Live rock solid under both SuSE 6.3 and Win98SE. So I may be a bit biased
Here is a list of parts/equipment for jerry-rigging you ATX case to accept a P4 chip/board:
1. 1 Dremmel Mototool
2. 1 Can Premium Lager (For after)
3. 1xHot Glue Gun
4. 2xWine Cork (cut in half)
Instructions:
Preparation
Using the Dremmel, remove any pieces of steel from your existing ATX case that may be blocking your shiny new P4 mainboard. Loosly mount the board in your ATXcase, and mark the screw holes. Using the Dremmel again, drill out the neccessary holes. Roughly mark the area BELOW the processor. Using the Hot Glue Gun, mount the cork halves on the marked area under the processor. (some shaving may be required)
Installation
Re-mount the main board, processor and RAM in the ATX case, and secure with screws (Be sure the cork is not too high, hairline fractures are a bad thing)
Drink the can of Lager while booting up your new P4 in an ATX Case!
Note: You will still need to buy a new power supply (More on how to rig the old one in my next post)
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads
Since my last upgrade was from 300MHZ to 500, both AMD and i just spent more cash on my case than the chip including shipping and that took about two years. I figure I'll be getting one of these new fangled 1GHZ machines sometime around 2004 or so. By then I'm hoping for implants directly to my cortex so I'm not that miffed, just unimpressed.
on a side note the P4 is going to be aircooled just like all chips are (as manufactured) Why don't AMD or Intel just do what we'll do to the chips when we get them from the git go. Water cool them or super air cool them or use some kind of advanced peltier system? Anything to show that they are thinking ahead. I'd be more willing to accept water in my PC than a 1 pound heatsink.
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I know this because in 1980 I was tutoring a EE and Chem double major, who told me that she had a friend using it to remove caffeine from coffee.
Here is some links:
CO2 Decaf Sin! Do you drink too much coffee?
Co2 in paintball
Fight Spammers!
Wow. P4 laptops are gonna be a bitch. ;)
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sure, the k7 generates lots of heat; but its on socket-A (no special motherboard support needed) and while the power supply is MORE crucial for the k7 than the p3, you can easily find a compatible/recommended PS for your athlon.
intel seems to intiquate things WAY too soon for my liking. just another nail on the coffin for them...
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
You are so ready for Crusoe.
(get those chips out here dammit)