Slashdot Mirror
CueCat Goes After Online Barcode Database
Just noted that CueCat is going for this year's Useless Legal Action Beanie by going after www.upcdatabase.com, a site that is storing UPC codes and allows people to look them up. The database contains almost a half a million entries right now. Unfortunately they're not distributing copies of their database, so it may be necessary to create an open db just to make sure that this data isn't locked up. Update: 09/28 08:14 PM by CT : Lineo's cuecat site was taken down also.
scan a frappuccino bottle: and you get taken to the pepsi cola site. what starbucs has to do with pepsi is beyound my meager grasp...
IIRC, Pepsico is the bottler for the Starbucks Frappuchino drink. Much the same way that Coca Cola is the bottler for Snapple...
--You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
Some of the people out there contacted them to see what they had to say about all of this. They're supposedly waiting and seeing what comes of all of this. Another submarine attack, perhaps. But, if you look at what I scrounged up, even NeoMedia doesn't have a leg to stand on- the patent DOES cover this sort of thing.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Go grab Foocat -- it looks up author, info URL, title and a cover shot for books, CDs and DVD.
___________________________
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
"What?" you say, "I am well fibered and squeaky clean. How will I test it?" The answer is simple my friend. Just make certain that Digital Convergence knows about your exploits. They will send one of their lawyers after you di-rectly. Capture the lawyer and use him to perfect your scatological scanning software.
First off, the C&D letter is regarding the ability his site has to accept a UPC code directly from a CueCat scan, not about the database itself. He has a text input you can click in, and then scan the UPC code, and it will send it to a CGI script that decodes the CueCat scan, and looks up the UPC code in his database.
Secondly, the reason his database isn't publicly available is because he got a lot of seed data for it from a third-party source with the agreement that the entire DB wouldn't be made publicly available. (No evil closed-source-ness conspiracies here, he's actually a strong supporter of open source, and has written several open source programs you can find on Freshmeat.)
Do you think :CueCat has ever heard of a modem? Do you think that if USR and Motorola were to throw temper tantrums over their competition in the same manner that anyone would give them any serious business? Do you think that any Judicial representative (aka, Judge, Lawyer) would even consider such a lawsuit? Let's hope the judge presiding over this case throw it out for the childish temper tantrum it is.
assert(expired(knowledge));
Stephen Satchell's theory behind the DC letters. Basically, DC is only going after barcode to web translations, not simply cuecat decoders. Even though DC has refused to answer what their "intellectual property" is, their letters have gone exclusively to sites that have software that can let you use your cat with the web. Satchell further points out that NeoMedia Technologies, not DC, actually have a patent on barcode to web lookups. NeoMedia is sitting on the patent until, I guess, there is enough money being made to jump in and begin extorting licensing fees...
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
Stop the madness!
Then again, some other yahoos seem to have a fresh patent on the very idea of a database mapping UPC codes to product-related URLs.
Time to patent my Method of Organizing a Sock Drawer. Black socks on the left, white socks on the right, colored and patterened socks in the middle. Who's reviewing these patent applications? A family of parakeets? A bag of gravel with a face painted on it?
- US05933829
- US05978773
- US06108656
Bonus points: NeoMedia's other three patents cover the "windowing" approach to solving the Y2k problem. So it sounds like NeoMedia specializes in buying up patents of the obvious that somehow slip through, and suing everyone in sight.Here's what they currently have registered (thanks to Larry Gilbert for this list and to sed for formatting it):
.CO M
.NE T
.OR G
.CO M
.CO M
.CO M
.CO M
.CO M
.CO M
.CO M
.CO M
.CO M
digital -co nvergence.net
digitalc onv ergence.com
digitalc onv ergence.net
digitalc onv ergence.org
nettalki.com
nettalklive.com
pcwebcode.org
pcwebtone.org
pcwebwand.org
thewwwand.com
web-code.com
web-wand.com
webwand.orgCATFORFREE1.COM
CATFORFREE2.COM
CATFORFREE3.COM
CRQATEMYBALLS
CRQATEMYBALLS
CRQATEMYBALLS
CRQSUCK.COMCRQSUCK.NETCRQSUCK.ORGCUECATATEM YBA LLS.COM
CUECATATEM YBA LLS.NET
CUECATATEM YBA LLS.ORG
FREE1080CAT.COM
FREECATNOW1.COM
FREECATNOW2.COM
FREECATNOW3.COM
FREECATONTV1.C OM
FREECATONTV2.C OM
FREECATONTV3.C OM
FREEEDGECAT.COM
FREEHOT100CAT
FREERUSSCAT.COM
FREETICKETCAT
GETACATNOW1.COM
GETACATNOW2.COM
GETACATNOW3.COM
GETAFREECAT1.C OM
GETAFREECAT2.C OM
GETAFREECAT3.C OM
GETMYFREECAT1
GETMYFREECAT2
GETMYFREECAT3
IWANTACAT1.COM&l t;/a>
IWANTACAT2.COM&l t;/a>
IWANTACAT3.COM&l t;/a>
IWANTAFREECA T1. COM
IWANTAFREECA T2. COM
IWANTAFREECA T3. COM
MYCATFREE1.COM&l t;/a>
MYCATFREE2.COM&l t;/a>
MYCATFREE3.COM&l t;/a>
MYFREECATNOW1
MYFREECATNOW2
MYFREECATNOW3
SENDMEACAT1.COM
SENDMEACAT2.COM
SENDMEACAT3.COM
THESPOTTO.COM
WHATSONCRQ.COM&l t;/a>
WHATSONCRQ.NET&l t;/a>
WRITECONGRESS
___________________________
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Not sure of the details here, site is slashdot'd already but... if these folks are being pestered because of a db of upc's what about all the retailers out there? I thought the whole idea of the upc was to provide machine readable id's - they're not proprietary or secret. I would assume that somewhere out there there is a public list of the company identifiers. Method of getting the data would seem to be irrelevant if it is already public knowledge.
Check out <a href="http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory&si<nobr>d<wbr></wbr></nobr> =2000/9/18/175017/284">this story</a> on Kuro5hin.
Can your IM do this?
I am probably short sighted, but I have no real use for a barcode scanner. I got my CueCat in the mail, so I went to the Digital Convergence Contact site, entered my information, and politely told them that I didn't agree with their EULA, and asked them to provide me with a shipping container and postage so I could return the scanner to them...
...I haven't heard from them yet
I wrote a little editorial about this subject on my website www.exceptionalminds.com/rhacer/s oap box
Stand Fast,
Stand Fast,
tjg.
As far as that Beanie goes, DC has already won it hands down.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
___________________________
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Be sure to relay only FACTS on internet discussion boards-- that will suffice. Of course, wouldn't it be a shame if frank and extensive discussion of these facts spoiled their $100 million IPO?
No. :-)
Dallas Morning News president: People just love that CueCat! :CueCat artice carries no byline, only the cryptic 'from staff reports.' That tells me that my former DMN coworkers didn't want anyone's name associated with this biased puff piece. If the DMN staffers had been allowed to actually report on the OTHER side of the story -- that the :CueCat has so far received negative reviews for being a fairly useless and hard-to-use piece of technology -- the story would have been bylined."
"Our market research shows consumers love this product and can't wait to use it at home," says Robert W. Mong Jr., president and general manager of The Dallas Morning News. "I find that very reassuring." He should; his paper's parent has invested $40 million in the company making the device.
From RENEE HOPKINS: "You may have noticed that the Dallas Morning News'
"If I have seen further than other men, it is by stepping on their glasses." - Michael Swaine
It is in response to something that was, up until yesterday, on his site[...]
:) It's
The Baltimore Sun that has an article about this cuecat mess:
This is your local FBM representative speaking
When I asked Davis about the letters, he was a bit more specific but not much. "They're developing computer applications in our patent space," he said.
Pressed a bit more, he said the company is relying on a 1991 patent it acquired that covers the use of a standard bar code scanner to "create a network event."
This would be a fairly broad patent, and could keep others from using bar code readers for purposes that have nothing to do with Digital Convergence's core business.
If you can find the patent(s) in question, please email me. Search freshmeat for the software.
___________________________
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Enough cuecat, when cuecat ceases to be an issue.
Right now, DC is throwing very fat lawyers at people who can't afford to fight them, and that's wrong, becuase it sets a *very* bad precedent.
I'm not in a position to interfere, since I don't live in the US, but I hope you guys over there make a lot of noise about this. Spread free drivers, write letters to media and politicians, and inform everyone who cares about this blatant abuse of your legal system.
Collecting marketing information is not very polite, but it's nothing compared to the legal stunts DC is pulling. Their "IP" claim is a joke, so do everything you can to undermine it.. because if they get away with it, thousands of imitators will crawl out of the woodwork to restrict your freedom on the internet in ways you've never imagined.
Because most of this shit starts in the USA, it's up to you Americans to protect the rest of the world by stomping it before it spreads. It's much harder to fight a corporation across international borders.
Software patents delenda est.
The page scans finally came up... took about 10 minutes.
They say that they might be infringing..stop it. They don't actually say what to stop. How are they supposed to comply, even if they wanted to?
Greetings! I couldn't remember which big paper it was- Thanks!
Keep plugging away at these clowns- they deserve every drop of agony that's about to come to them.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I also searched on the USPO trademark database, and turned up several hundred trademarks with the word trek in them. Only six of them were owned by the trek bicycle corp. Did all of these other trademark holders get a letter? Some of these trademarks have been in effect for quite a few years, so I doubt it?
It looks to me like a tipical corporate scare tactic, but I will nevertheless have to expend money to have my attorney blast back a letter basicly telling them to get bent (but in legal terms).
Sigh. And I even own a Trek mountain bike. Oh the irony.
Thad
The Bolachek Journals
http://[server].dcnv.com/CRQ/1..[activation code].04.[cuecat scan].0
[Server] can be a, o, s, t, or u. [activation code] is supposed to be the activation code you get from your registration, but can be simply "ACTIVATIONCODE", or any other random bit of data. [cuecat scan] is the raw output of the device, minus the "", with case inverted. The first section of the scan is your scanner id, and I've found that you can use just about anything for that.
What you get in return is something that looks a little like this:
cat=0
...
url=http://www.slashdot.org
desc=Stuff that matters
--
Wooden armaments to battle your imaginary foes!
So they sue the database?
This is :Clueless, even for :CueCat.
OTOH, since /. only posts ~12 articles/day, every CueCat article is one less article on something else, that could be more interesting.
Personally, I find the whole CueCat thing fascinating, but I understand the dissenters' dis-interest.
-----
D. Fischer
ShoutingMan.com
Of course when companies release some new thing that has anything remotely associated with the internet, they play it up like it's going to change the internet forever. Digital Convergence is A) claiming the CueCat is the greatest invention since the mouse (check their website) B) they WON THE WAR against hackers C) If it has a UPC on it, it must be violating their EULA somehow and D) Even though they give their hardware away with (in version 1.0) no EULA mentioning the decompilation or reverse engineering of the hardware, that they own it outright and you can't do anything they don't want you to. I don't know if it's arrogance, ignorance, or just plain stupidity, but DC has what I consider first of all to be the dumbest idea about how to surf the web (I buy a can of Mountain Dew, I'm too dumb to try www.mountaindew.com???) and second of all the guts to run around suing anything mentioning the word UPC. What's next, are they going to start suing Walmart for using barcodes because they COULD be purchased by a consumer who MIGHT use his own software to do something with it? This is ludicrous, plain and simple. Of all the people I've talked to (including people who would be inclined to install it as suggested by DC) not ONE SINGLE PERSON has installed the software provided with the Cue Cat. They've either disassembled them, thrown them away, or given them to someone else who will disassemble it to make a flashlight.
"You'll die up there son, just like I did!" - Abe Simpson
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
CueCat decoder .signature by Larry Wall: /\.([^.]+)/g;
#!/usr/bin/perl -n
printf "Serial: %s Type: %s Code: %s\n", map { tr/a-zA-Z0-9+-/ -_/; $_ = unpack
'u', chr(32 + length()*3/4) . $_; s/\0+$//; $_ ^= "C" x length; }
You cannot detect colon cancer with a thing that has colon cancer itself (:Cue:C.A.T.). And it's spreading! If it becomes :Cue:C:A:T: it will not
be advisable to make it touch any part of your colon.
Got any more good sites you want to tell us about?
And they are all over wired magazine now too.
But if you had printed out a barcode "Cue", they could have scanned it and known exactly what you were talking about.
They might or might not have had it, but they could have scanned your "Cue" and that would have made the experience all worth your trip.
Oh, gosh! New business idea coming up. After store clerk scans barcode in catalog, computer either says "Nope, we don't stock that. Go away." or a strobe light goes off over one of the racks in the back of the store and you go look there.
This business idea hereby placed into the public domain.
A barcode-to-web-lookup patent, especially if awarded in the last 15 years, would be especially nutty. Barcode scanners have been used to trigger data lookups across networks for as long as there have been barcodes. I find it hard to believe that shop-floor, factory and warehouse barcode readers weren't being used to pull up mainframe data 20-plus years ago. Must find this NeoMedia patent. Sounds on the face of it like yet another bit of galling ineptitude at the USPTO.
Hey! I have an idea! How about rigging, say, a modified finger daemon to hand out item URLs to scanning applications. Then the lookups wouldn't be done "on the web".
My impression of CueCat (and this is from limited data, admittedly) is that they have no idea how the internet, software, and computer world work in general.
Lawsuits do not make you popular, screwing around with data does not make you popular, and posturing does not make you popular.
You have to wonder if that company's left hand knows what the right hand is doing. That, to me, seems to be a major cause of internet/lawsuit/technical stupidity today.
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
What exactly is DC looking to accomplish here? UPCs are Universal Product Codes, I don't recall them having a patent or copyright or anything on these... so why is it hurting them for a site having an online database? Frankly, this would be about the only thing I might use my CueCat for, if someone developed an app to read this database and make a database of all my CDs or DVDs, then that stupid Cat thing on my desk might get some use other than a red keyboard light.
Maybe this will open someone's eyes up in Washington and they will start picking at DC's business practices...
"This amp is special, see all the knobs go up to 11, that means it is one louder than other amps"
Dispite their claim of being interested in working with someone to create an official Linux driver, they're not. I sent a very polite message explaining what I have done and asking them for what I would need to give them their demographics information so that my driver could be distributed without interfering with their business model. They didn't even reply.
I'm busy at work lately, but expect me to return to patch up this driver for release in a few weeks or so if I'm lucky. Their legal department doesn't scare me. They have no intellectual property rights against me to defend, any legal threats would be empty.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Or do they think that somehow combining the two represents a brand new idea that should be protected from competition?
Yeesh. I don't remember anyone promising these people that they had some God-given RIGHT to make money and trample everyone else in the process. If you want to make money in a capitalist marketplace, offer a *better* product for *less* money!
If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
I Live in dallas, so i filled in the address for DC's headquarters as my home address ;-)
Evil.
This letter wasn't sent in regards to the database he has amassed, they would have no legal griveance over that. However, like the rest of us, he has a perl script that you can scan your :cue:cat directly into, and use it as your search query, this "violating" their IP. This is what they're pissed about, just like the other hackers who got letters. They probably dont like that there is a competing database of UPC codes, but certainly have no legal right to go after them for that.
-Josh
An alternative view is that the subscription fee you paid is for the magazine subscription alone, and everything else is unsolicited.
...phil
...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
Information on UPC Symbols is in the public, isn't it? Isn't this a universal (AFAIK at least American?) standard?
My thought is that CueCat is probably VC-based, and they're watching their business plan being eaten... but they have VC-money to sue with.
A database of UPC Symbols would be of great use to smaller business and retailers who want to use them "scanning in" either a.) purchases of commonly purchased items, without having to actually scan the box or b.) inventory tracking.
Inventory tracking is difficult to do when there are slight differences between the two products. A simple Maxtor HDD listing with features like UDMA, etc. can even be complex, for instance, if one has a 5400RPM rotation instead of a 7200 rotation. If you've ever worked with a distributor and not had the SKU, you know that the most complex part is trying to determine what things are by a jumble of extremely long sentences and unclearly abbreviated phrases. Sometimes the differentiation doesn't fit on the screen (e.g., the Maxtor drives would look the same, except for the price).
It would be nice to scan in what inventory you want to reorder from a laser-printed sheet and have it automatically poll Ingram-Micro (or whomever) to see if it is available.
As far as difficulty scanning boxes, if you've ever tried to move a set of stacked boxes around to find the UPC code (often on the bottom), you probably know what I'm talking about. It's not fun.
With companies being so quick to sue, they seem to forget that, even with something like the CueCat, there is always a way to make some sort of money simply by (*gasp*) taking care of your customers. Not *everyone* is interested in hacking it, and most people are probably looking for a solution-based (e.g., service) approach. When you dump your customers (e.g., the lawsuit money has to come from somewhere, and customer service is often the first to suffer) to go after hackers and play lawsuit-cowboy, you have alienated both parties... parties that both had the potential to support your company in some fashion.
In the hacking world, hackers give good publicity. Sure, they love to tear your stuff apart, but they gave rise to stuff like the iOpener and the CueCat which would have never been heard of otherwise. Hackers represent the ultimate consumer - they have a no-BS approach, they're intelligent, they're skeptical, and they love a quality product they can tool around with. Most small business owners would be able to die happy if they could have even received one-fifth the publicity that either of these companies got. Go figure.
Lucas
--
Spindletop Blackbird, the GNU/Linux Cube.
However, you might be interested to note this update that he's added to the upcdatabase.com page:
(And yes, I know I'm not identifying him or the software he's written, because he doesn't wish to tie his real name to the UPC database, for reasons that are his and his alone.)God, that's even worse than the one I saw. Some kind of 'heaven can wait' kind of theme. Some jr. angel trying to get his wings was the gist of what I caught. lame lame lame lame
Guess they did intensive demographic research and are going got the brainless wal-mart trailer-home set, eh?
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
For one, I've replaced my tennis ball car-parking-adapter in my garage with it. Not only do I still have a great way to park my car perfectly when I get home from work, but I'm also gently reminded of the dangers not respecting other people's privacy on the net at the same time, too. I do wish they'd added a bit more length to the tail, though.
How about a CueCat fish feeder? Hmmm. I wonder what happens when the striped fishies swim under the submersed active unit?
How about some on-line instructions for building a car lighter adapter to make the purrr-fect auto map light? Parts from Radio Shack, naturally.
The possibilities seem almost endless.
This organization is probably the most evil direct marketing organization ever constructed, every CueCat device has a serial number that is sent with barcode data that is swiped. On top of that they want you hook up your computer to your TV so your TV can control your computer. You can see this in action on the Infomercial they started running, the theme of Angels from Heaven watching the activities of the residence of the Town of Convergence, USA isn't very far away from a big corporation collecting data from everyone to see if they're being naughty or nice consumers. They want you to think you're in control. It isn't about where you want to go and do, it's all about them collecting datapoints about what TV shows you watch, what products you have in your home, what magazines you read, what books you own, and what foods you eat.
DO NOT IGNORE Digital Convergence.
DC's Executive Bio's is a laundry list of people everyone hates, direct marketers and data miners. These are the people who create the databases of people, the ones that get sold to telemarketers that call you every day of the work week during dinner to do a "consumer survey." You think your telephone sucks now? Imagine what life will be like when someone calls you to offer you coupons for everything you ever scanned, only if you buy them from their catalog or bring the coupons to their store.
DO NOT IGNORE Digital Convergence.
This is the true begining of the war on our privacy. They want people to scan everything, and I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually suggest tatooing barcodes on your wrist for the ultimate digital wallet application. Christans might have some choice words about that event when it happens.
Some people might make light of all their gaffes with privacy and security. Don't brush them off just because of their incompetence so far. They will get better at what they do and the value of their "data" will escalate. Don't bet for a minute that your profile data won't be sold to Visa, MasterCard, American Express, Banks, Experian, Transunion, or Equifax.
You did fill out a fake name and address when you got your CueCat from Radio Shack. Didn't you?
Digital Convergence delenda est.
- Burning the
- Smashing the
- Shoving the
sulli
sulli
RTFJ.
Forgive the anonymous posting, but I've had enough dealings with lawyers for teh while, you understand. Though, since I received the CueCat in hte mail due to my WiReD subscription, and unsolicited, apparently I can do anything I want with it, including sticking it up my ass. Which brings me to my point.
I'm writing the software for another use of Cue:Cat, colon cancer detection. Most tumors are colored differently than healthy flesh. Healthy flesh is red, which means it reflects red light. Tumors are usually not red, they reflect less red light. The Cue:Cat uses red light to detect barcodes, thus, it should also be able to detect differences in flesh, by detecting the differing amounts of red light reflected by healthy flesh and tumorus flesh.
So, I need a algorithm to detect changes in reflect light intensity, and a search algorithm. I'm thinking of using my Lego Mindstorms to insert the Cue:Cat in an ass, and then rotate it and push it in and pull it out (Venture Capitalists take note, perhaps we can go after the Sybian monopoly, nonstop female orgasms should be the right of every female who can't experience me, not just those with $2,000.
So, if anyone wants to help me with this, please respond here. The sensations of a cat shaped barcode reader plunging in and out of your ass are amazing, and we might detect cancer.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think that CmdrTaco yielded to the numerous complaints that there were too many CueCat stories. I'm surprised, cause I submitted a story about The Register's take on the CueCat. It was rejected, and they accepted this vaguely terse piece of FUDcrud? That's pathetic.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Read about how DC has commited mail fraud (and how to file your complaint with the US postal service) here.
::cue::crap spammer-- er uh scanner here.
And learn how to 'de-claw' (so it doesn't send out a serial number) your
If you voted for Nader, THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!!
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
So Linus, what are we going to do tonight?
The same thing we do every night Tux. Try to take over the world!
If this is the patent, and by some perverse twist of fate, Delphion's site info isn't in lockstep with who is the current assignee of the patent, you're going to find that anything of the sort is in violation of the patent. Of course, I may have missed the patent (There's something buried, not in the abstracts...)- having said this, I'd like to point out that without it being in the abstracts, it's not likely to be a valid use of the patent grant, because they've got to specifically mention what they're patenting there. Furthermore, most of the usages that we see with it that DC's up in arms about isn't really covered by this patent- the usages don't link up with any marketing data except the case of the engines flipping you to Amazon, and that's tenuous too.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas