Slashdot Mirror
AltaVista Gives Up On E-mail [Updated]
One krow (and a flock of others) wrote with this news: "According to this article, AltaVista is ceasing to provide e-mail (stranding a million users who use the service). So what does it say that a company the size of AltaVista calls it quits with a service like e-mail?" One thing is sure: old e-mail addresses, like old physical addresses, are a pain to reconcile with everyone who wants to send you (flowers / letters / bills). Update 0819 US EST by Roblimo: As a number of readers have pointed out, Altavista is terminating its free (ad-supported) ISP service, not its email service. If you have an Altavista email account, relax. We regret the error.
We all know what most large companies like to do with personal information these days. Sell Sell Sell.
This was happening with all the free services already. Not only do they sell your personal information, but some even force you to fill out forms, etc. They constantly display advertising.
tanstaafl. For those of you who don't read Heinlein, that means "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Just because you aren't paying them in cash doesn't mean you aren't paying them. They are getting money from displaying ads to you, selling your personal information, etc.
Obviously in this case, they weren't getting enough money from doing it. But if they were getting none, they wouldn't have done it in the first place.
Personally, I'd much rather pay an ISP in cash than deal with more online spam, snail-mail spam, and telemarketers. And even advertisements. I hate banners ads.
I was using altavista internet access for the last 6-7 months and I can say that their service was more reliable and faster than MSN. They had a great service with no busy signals. The ads never bothered me at all. After a week, you learn to ignore them anyway.
I am a big fan of free ISP's. First of all, you can have multiple ISP accounts without paying anything. If one of them has network problems, just use the other one.
Second of all, you don't need to give personal information and more importantly credit card info.
Third of all, they are easy to use. Install the software and you are ready to go.
It is very sad that Altavista gave up, but there are other free ISPs anyway. I don't see any point of paying $21.95 for MSN. I used MSN for one month. After one week I noticed that none of my emails are delivered. Their smtp server was erasing emails from non-msn email addresses silently, no warning at all. So you need to send emails from your msn address. I send an email to tech support complaining how they screwed up my emails and business. They replied with a standard temlate telling me how they are sensitive about spams, and that I was spamming. After some more replies and three weeks, they understood the problem and gave me a new smtp sever address to use. And I cancel my account... So you don't get always what you pay for.
Doesn't take a genius to understand that AltaVista email service was flawed. How hard can it be for them to just copycat Hotmail or Yahoo ?
I think AltaVista is doing the big mistake of not really following users' needs. As far as I know nobody liked the look change happened a few months ago. Why don't they just ask to the users ??!
> What the hell is up guys? Now that you got paid do you just not give a damn?
Actually, I kind of like the current arrangement. Now when someone blasts me for not reading the article before posting, I can come back with the defense, "I figured the article was going to be wrong, so I didn't see any reason to read it."
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Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
--
The shareholder is always right.
How is this Off-Topic?
AltaVista began life as a search engine that tried to become a portal and then had aspirations of AOL-hood.
Google came along with a superior search engine and a vision of just doing that. And doing it better than anyone else.
Since Google came along I've given up on AltaVista. Perhaps that is why AltaVista has given up on FreeISP -- they recognize their dilution and are refocusing on their original mission.
Not Off-Topic at all. Rather, it's +1 Insightful!
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
If it costs $7-9 per month to provide the service, why aren't there companies that CHARGE $7-9 to cover COSTS, and run ad banners to provide PROFITS? That way they wouldn't LOSE money (even if they didn't make much). I certainly would prefer to pay $10/month with ads instead of $20/month to a "full service" ISP.
Teen Angel - a Ghost Story
the actual internet access was provided by 1stup.com. So Alta Vista isn't the one pulling the plug. 1stup.com has gone belly up like so many other money burning dot coms. Personally I don't blame Alta Vista for deciding to stay out of the free internet access foray at this point in time. 1stup.com was the only free access provider who had a decent privacy policy and dependable service. I have been a happy user for a long time and am now left out in the cold.
Guess it's time to stop being so cheap and just get that darned cable modem even though I'm not fond of our local provider. I think Alta Vista and 1stup.com both deserve a lot of credit because out of all of the free access services I've seen theirs was by far the best. Both from a privacy standpoint and a service standpoint. I wish my free email provider was as reliable as my free access provider has been.
<emotional and teary eyed> Good Bye 1stup.com, you guys gave it a shot and did a heck of a good job in the process.</emotional and teary eyed>
The Email service was sold to IName in 1998. Now IName of course is running out of cash. First they spammed their users. Then they started the popup windows. Then they had auto-raising windows. Why is it that mainstream websites seem foretold by what the warez sites did years ago?
Yes. I guess that you could say that Slashdot has become much like the US Patent Office then, and just passing along anything that anybody puts under it's nose, probably without reading it.
--It burns! --It's loaded with wasabi.
I moderated up to a +3 the Bruce Perens comment you are referring to. And you are right that Slashdot editors do make a lot of mistakes. And as another poster so already stated, you do have the most awesome slashdot id in the world.
On the other hand I think CmdrTaco's comments about Bruce Perens "stints" at one thing or another are valid. Let's take a look:
1] First he was involved with Debian but then he quit because it wasn't getting newbie friendly and it wouldn't adopt the rpm package manager.
2] He started Software in the Public Interest. But he quit.
3] Then he was involved with the OSI but he quit because ESR allowed O'Reilly to use the word open source at a comvention even the the rest of the OSI board voted not too.
4] Then he started LSB but quit because it wasn't moving fast enough.
5] Then he started this venture capital group but now he's quiting that too.
To me this represents a series of "stints." A fairly dang freaking awesome series of stints. But "stints" none the less.
It is very pertinent and was meant very seriously. If you own your own domain name you can recover in a couple of days from your provider going down.
All you do is get a different provider and change your DNS - and any provider will be happy to change the DNS for you.
If, however, you don't own the domain name that your email is delivered to, like, say, AltaVista.com, and it either goes out of business or decides the service doesn't suit its business model anymore, then you're fucked.
Michael D. Crawford
GoingWare Inc
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
What personal information? Most of the information gathered on me will tell them stuff like i`m a 45 year old female from Afghanistan - dont think i *ever* put accurate info into any form i`ve ever filled in onscreen, and i`m running junkbusters. But if someone finds that information useful enough to sell and base business plans etc on then go for it!
but we don't pay. We get this for free.
We (at least some) contribute work in posting stories, commentaries and moderation. I think this gives us the right to at least protest. The editors also contribute. But the site needs both types.
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Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
I also have used FreeAV for a few years, loved it, and will miss it. But I'll move on to Juno or NetZero. Or Yahoo. Or... FreeWWWeb bit the dust this year, too. I suspect that, like me, otherfree-ISP customers just migrate from one provider to another. But if free ISPs die off faster than new ones are started, does that mean that all us cheapskates will be on one or at most two free ISPs? If so, that suggests a large number of us suckers will be at the mercy of market forces at the same time -- an example of lots of eggs in a single basket. It's enough to make a guy bite the bullet and go back to paying for access.
"How many light bulbs does it take to change a person?" --BMcC-->
There are more than a few services that do charge $10 a month, but they dont get a ton of press. I cant think of them offhand, but I know I referred more than a few customers to them..
GPL'd web-based tradewars themed space game
Looks like the article is about free net access, not email, two rather different things.
I have my email vectored through pobox.com, and so I can change ISPs at a moment's notice, and not have to change my address. I recommend this service!
Dog is my co-pilot.
Does this mean that other free services will soon be dropping like flies as well?
Since the main requirement for providing a free service is that you ALREADY have money to work with, I can see some of the larger companies taking over providing free services.
We all know what most large companies like to do with personal information these days. Sell Sell Sell.
I think it's Net Access, not email.
I think we need to pour hot grits down Timothy's pants.
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
Two years ago I bought myself a domain. Ok, sure, it's a lot more expensive than using the free stuff that AltaVista gives you, but as long as I'm willing to shell out $35 a year plus another $100 or so for a server I don't need to worry about my provider cutting out on me. If the server host does, I can always change hosts.
So, if you do need email, the solution is simple: buy yourself a domain and give yourself whatever silly email addresses you like. I personally am a big fan of SLASHDOTSPAM@mydomain.com.
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RumorsDaily
>First off, 66666 is a damned good slashdot id.
:)
My sig referred to this fact for a little while, and then I heard the quote that is in my sig now, and it just made me die of laughter. I had to see how many trolls would reply to it.
Oddly, none have (yet).
>But to the real point
Yeah..
>Slashdot gets a bad rap in the comment sections a lot of the time...
>Sure, if we were paying for it we'd have the right to yell and scream, but we don't pay
Wrong. Its a community site. We get the right to bitch. They have just as much right to reply, or mod it down, or delete the post, or turn the thing off.
However..
>this website is much more than I'm paying for it.
But is it? You *do* pay for it by viewing it, by commenting in it. Thats what makes the site popular, and thats what gets more ad revenue for them, which is what keeps them paid by OSDN.
>be patient and say thank you CmdrTaco and Hemos once in a while
This is the one thing I will really agree with you about. Despite my general bitching (and I did label it as such), it doesnt change the fact that I come here, and often too. I post regularly, I have enough karma to approach the cap.
I earn them good money.
My point isnt that I hate the site and that Cmdr, and Rob are jerks. Far from it. I love the site. I just strive to push them to raise it back up a level. I really have seen a decline lately.
GPL'd web-based tradewars themed space game
I liked altavista back when they were just a damn good search engine, and not a cheesy portal site. If I wanted a cheesy portal site, I'd go to "Yahoo!".
At least Google has managed to handle everything tastefully so far; I definitely respect them more for it. Heck, they don't even have banner ads, unlike some other sites...
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
1) How many dotcom MBA's are surprised by the fact that a vast majority of internet users are willing to pay ~$20.00 a month for Ad-Free browsing/email?
.com appendage absolved of that nasty little obligation.
2) A what? A revenue model? What the heck is that? Stockholders? You mean we have to earn money and be profitable? I thought the
This is probably not going to affect Altavista email. Other free ISP's can be found at: Free ISP List
So get your own domain name. Domains are portable, although in practice moving a domain from one ISP to another takes several days.
I use Yahoo mail in my example but I think this proves my point.
Each individual email recipient on earth should have their own domain name.
That way, if your provider goes down - whether it's a web-based service like Yahoo or AltaVista, or an ISP service, or if you just move geographically and don't want to keep paying for connectivity you don't use anymore, it just takes a couple days for changes to your DNS to take effect and your back up.
I got my own domain name after my ISP was down for a week. And they've been bought out so many times it's amazing they still serve the old domain anymore.
The big pain for me now is going to be moving all the web pages that are hosted at my old ISP. Some of them are important ones that people have linked to from other sites. If I'd owned my own domain in the first place, there'd be no problem. Instead I'll put placeholders will META REFRESH tags in them to point at all the pages on the new sites and keep paying their bill another year or so.
Michael D. Crawford
GoingWare Inc
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
First off, 66666 is a damned good slashdot id.
But to the real point, Slashdot gets a bad rap in the comment sections a lot of the time. I know because I run a webpage that's got a similarly vocal clientel from time to time. You've got to understand that even though these guys may be getting paid to run this website by somebody out there in the real world, it is not by any of us. Sure, if we were paying for it we'd have the right to yell and scream, but we don't pay. We get this for free.
Even with the grammar and spelling errors, even with the repeat stories, even with the poorly checked links, this website is much more than I'm paying for it.
As much as it's annoying to see the same story twice, it's not a big deal. The same thing goes for a story that doesn't quite boil down the essence of the link perfectly. Sure, ok, they made a mistake here. So point it out on the talkback zone here, but there's no reason to attack the owners of the site personally. If it's incorrect, tell us what's right, don't act as if you're so high and mighty.
It's a mistake, treat it as such.
Slashdot fans... be patient and say thank you CmdrTaco and Hemos once in a while. It's not often on the web that you find something anywhere near as wonderful and useful as Slashdot, and when you do you should appreciate it. Attempting to tear it down piece by piece just shows how little respect you have for this service.
Thank you Slashdot folks, I appreciate the hard work you do and thank you for your effort.
--
RumorsDaily
I work for a company that works with AltaVista's Channels. The word is that they are leaving the portal market altogether and they are going to cease providing any source of content.
<P>
It seems that most of the people their are fairly disgruntled after waiting and waiting for the supposed IPO that is right around the corner. These guys are heading straight for the toilet. At least that's my oppinion.
>1] First he was involved with Debian but then he quit because it wasn't getting newbie friendly and it wouldn't adopt the rpm package manager
Package uniformity is hands down one of the BIGGEST problems facing the linux distros today. Its also affecting the BSD's, but they have the balls and intelligence to do something about it.
I dont think thats a bad thing. It certainly made a point that resonated with me. However, that isnt the only reason he left from my understanding of posts at the time.
>2] He started Software in the Public Interest. But he quit.
(everything is this post is simply my understanding of the matter, btw..)
This was because he saw a bigger value proposition in OSI, from what I understood.
>3] Then he was involved with the OSI but he quit because ESR allowed O'Reilly to use the word open source at a comvention even the the rest of the OSI board voted not too.
Much as ESR is hailed for standing by his beliefs, why should you be a part of a group that doesnt stand by it's decisions. BP was doing IMHO, the moral thing, and showing the same level of integrity that ESR has.
>4] Then he started LSB but quit because it wasn't moving fast enough.
And its not. Its a laughing stock. They should already have a working standard for package management, desktop WM's, and kernels. They dont even have THAT. Its *RIDICULUS*.
>5] Then he started this venture capital group but now he's quiting that too.
Because he can make better money elsewhere, and because it has served its purpose.
>To me this represents a series of "stints."
When the cook stumbled upon chocolate chip cookies by accident, just because it took a short period of time, was that a stint?
The word has more meaning than just 'short period of time'. It has a very negative connotation, and thats what I was objecting to.
IMHO, they werent stints, they were logically concluded movements in his life, and in public life.
I stand by my statement about Mr. Perens. (Why does everyone call ANYONE in the open-source movement by their first name like they have known them for years personally?)
GPL'd web-based tradewars themed space game
Flamebait? What -- I was taunting myself?
Perhaps I was explaining why I made a silly subject line: I was trying to produce the effect of a 4 year-old on the playground saying a taunting cliche.
It's funny. Laugh.
Now, that the parent's parent was marked Off-Topic is just stupid!
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Let's hope for NetZero. I have found there service to be painful to use. Once every 15 minutes or so you get a pop-up dialog box (not a browser window, but an actual program dialog box) that says either:
1. "Hey, if you click on the banner in our banner portal you could get cool stuff!" or
2. "You will be disconnected in 30 seconds if you don't click ok" This last one is done regardless of the current activity. Even if you're not idle, you get this message.
Frustrating. But, one gets what they pay for
In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
First, I'll comment on the editorial question "what does this mean"..
:)
.. dont get it.
Them ending free dialup means that they obviously learned that it wasnt worth it. The average dialup costs around $7-9 per month to service and maintain (I worked at a national isp, thats the numbers we had).
With those numbers, with a million users, they were spending $7 million roughly PER MONTH. Thats a nice fat national television ad run. Its an easy choice to stop services like that when budgets are tighter.
Now, some bitching.
The first line on the page of the article, IN BOLD was:
"update AltaVista is terminating its free Internet access service, making it the latest company to exit the market."
NOT email.
In the last two weeks, we have seen over eight stories that were old submissions with NO changes, three that were updates of old submissions that didnt mention the original (sony walking robot), and plenty of spell-checking problems, and crap like this.
Not to mention the Bruce Perens article that practically insults him. Now, I dont get around much, but in my limited dealings with the OS/FS/Linux community, he has been wonderful, open, and very accomodating.
What the hell is up guys? Now that you got paid do you just not give a damn?
Now, dont get me wrong, I am not saying "Its not like the old days", cause I wasnt on then.
However, in the last year, I can definitely say that they dont do nearly as much editorial checking.
Hell, Bruce submitted his story HIMSELF, TWICE, and it was rejected, but then it was submitted with that rude editorial attached.
I just
Wake up guys, RUN YOUR SITE!
GPL'd web-based tradewars themed space game
I wonder if we could get an annotated digest of these painfully long and sleep-inducing tickers. Something like a Kernel Traffic digest...
/. sub-ref?)
I assume it's posted because of some awesome revelation or admission -- but I haven't the patience tonight to wade through it.
Cliff notes version, anyone? (How's that for an Ask
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
For better or worse, in this country the USPS is fully responsible for your mail. As a quasi-governmental agency it will always be as strong as the nation itself. Baring significant political upheaval, I always know my mail will (usually) end up in the right place as long as I fill out the change of address forms. And if the government ever does go tits up, where my credit card statement goes will probably be one of my least worries.
Why can't we have something similar to the USPS for email? With this current hodge-podge of ISP's practicing collective anarchy, there are no real guarantees. When a huge company like Altavista shuts down the accounts it serves as a chilling wake-up call to the ephemerality of our most basic online communications.
I hate to advocate more governmental involvement of any sort, but honestly, my email account is by far more important to my life than my physical mail address. The nature of the capitalist market itself rules out the sort of stability that email requires, and only a government can really provide any sort of long-term guarantee that I believe we need.
What do you expect them to do? The company that was providing the free net access is going out of business. It's not like this is the first free net access company to bite the bullet recently.
Using an alias is a great way to get around this. By giving your alias out rather than a specific address, if one e-mail account is shut down/spammed/broken into/ect, you just change the forwarding address on your alias, and those e-mailing you at the alias never know the difference.
I know for sure that if you are an IEEE member they give you an alias...
To write a haiku - all you need is the correct - number of syli...