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Iridium Saved By the US Dept of Defense
mccready was one of quite a bunch of people to send us the news trinket from CNNfn . It seems that the on-again, off-again Iridium system has at least another two years. The US Department of Defense has stepped in with $72 million, while another buyer is found. The reason? To avoid 'triggering possible "widespread anxiety" on re-entry.'
These satellites refuse to accept their fate.
Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
Some of the things that aren't very well pointed out in the CNNfn blurb might be relevant.
The first is that the satellites are not being bought by the government (as some people here have claimed).
The second is that Iridium/the bankruptcy court ended up selling their assets to a newly formed company called Iridium Satellite for the bargain price of around $25 million.
Iridium Satellite has determined that the only way that the satellite network will be feasible is to sell services to governments. Let's face it, the idea that even the above-average consumer would need a satellite phone is pretty crazy.
The US DOD already has a a couple thousand Iridium handsets in use. So they signed a deal to keep their service going (assuming that the service stays) for the next couple years. It's no biggie.
What honestly surprises me is that someone from the government would actually claim that it was to prevent re-intry when obviously it isn't.
Could this be a cover story for a secret government operation? Perhaps the DoD is paying to keep the satellites up because they are neccesary for Echelon to work properly? Or maybe they are pummeling us daily with mind controlling microwaves to make us buy more cheetos? It just doesn't add up I tell you!
Execute? [Y/N] _
I would start the deorbit of Iridium tomorrow. Then I would seriously spank the designers and anyone else who dares to put up transmitters that intefere with radio astronomy
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Pan Am didn't go out of business until late 1991.
Something that might amuse you --
At Microsoft, I often saw vans marked, "Teufel Landscaping Company" or something to that effect.
I'm sure it's simply the last name of the founder (a Google search for 'Teufel' turned up a number of home pages of Herr Teufels), but usually it translates from German as "Devil" IIRC.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
...this costs $1 million a day to operate?
72 million = 2 years?
With the way the DoD misappropriates funds, this isn't that bad really. Although, I think we can safely assume that they aren't funding a glogal wireless telecommunications empire because the public (Most of which don't know where on a map is, much less that there are the satilites in the lower atmosphere. Imagine that? The DoD not telling us the whole story.
Good point. Besides I thought we are supposed to be anxious over the election...does that give them a coup excuse? I wonder who Motorola's special friend at the DoD is?
If you read the rest of the details you will find that the DoD is buying itself a worldwide phone system for real cheap. They are paying pennies on the dollar for use of the satellites. They are installing crypto phones in the field to use Iridium. This lets them shift routine traffic off the heavily loaded secure sats.
The other blather is just added benefits included to pacify public imbecility.
While the concers of the public are most liekly grounded in Hollywood science fiction they are no less improtant. Every day small pieces of space debris are able to survive re-entry. Most of this debris is too small to damage structures or living things, it also is concentrated in relatively uninhabited areas. Regardless, large pieces of Iriduim satellites reaching earth is a distinct possibility. Many municipaliteis have plans for just such an event, plans that have scientific justification. While the possibility of this is remote, it is certainly in our best interests to consider the possibility.
Abandonment is stupid and irresponsible. Who can "claim" them? Anyone who can successfully hack them? If you want the satellite, you also get the responsibility. All orbits degenerate, and no company can accept the liability of having a satellite of theirs crash in New York just because they didn't want to bother with de-orbiting their equipment properly. If they could have done it safely, but didn't, it all falls into their laps.
I spent a year in Iraq looking for WMD and all I found was this lousy sig.
I concur... take the latest bird NOAA-16 put up by NOAA recently, it cost $350m to build and launch, that's just for a single polar orbiting bird, and this was also considered doing it on the cheap because they used an old titan (?) rocket from the 60's that was designed to deliver ballistic missiles.
$72m is an absolute give away, they spend about half that on the maintenance of Air Force one for the president every year.
Tax Writeoff
If Iridium ever comes down, Motorola can turn to the IRS and say "Even though we made around $44 billion USD this year (intial projection value for 2001, though this has been revised), we just lost a $5 billion dollar system. Please have pity on us." And the IRS will cut them some slack.
The irony of this is that in a manner of thinking, the US governnment will have partially funded the cost of Iridium through lost tax revenue. So the DoD buying it seems strangely logical, given that a) the government would have footed the bill in one way or another and b) it's better to have a working orbital communications system than a rain of space garbage.
PS: I seem to recall an old animation on the Macintosh that showed a Star Destroyer-esque ship from the underside. A fleet of spacecraft flew out of the hold, there was a pause, and then a bunch of crap started coming out of the hold as the words "SPACE GARBAGE" flashed on the screen.
Man, that cracked me up at the time.
-- "I am disrespectful to dirt. Can you not see that I am serious!"
Is this the new kinder, gentler DOD president Bush used to talk about?
So it's bad for me to give some small change to a downtown beggar, but it's OK for the DoD to shell out $72M to spare the blushes of some prosperous corporate types after one of their business judgements went pear-shaped?
it would appear that the very thing that the FBI was faraid of, that of people being able to communicate in an untracable medium, the DoD has gone and done for them so that they wont have to worry about it.
GlabalStar hasnt been selling like the investors had originally wanted, and could possibly be on its way out in the next couple years if things keep going down this path.
Take those two players out of the picture and there is no way to have a wireless communications system that cant be tracked by the government.
"See, we plan ahead! That way, we never have to do anything now."
Completely useless, heavy objects with a bit of propulsion ability.
Uses: To set in the path of competeting countries spy sattelites.
Think about it. Russia worked for years and spent hundreds of millions of dollars to perfect the "Sattelite Killer"
The US DOD bought one for about a buck fifty.
krystal_blade
It will be easy to motivate our fellow man; there is hardly anything people treasure more than not being annihilated.
So...what you really mean is that this is corporate welfare spent in an attempt to justify a bad decision on the part of the Air Force? I think I prefer ordinary corporate welfare.
The operating expenses are quite high, actually. More importantly, there is still a huge debt to be serviced. Motorola and the government should let it die. Especially the government which has no reason for being involved anyway. Spend your money supporting up-and-coming companies, not companies on the brink of death.
KTB:Lover, Poet, Artiste, Aesthete, Programmer.
KTB:Lover, Poet, Artiste, Aesthete, Programmer.
There is no
1. Mir is finally deorbited. 2. The Iridium sats are splashed. 3. The presidential election comes to an end.
In a moment of drunken weakness, my ex-girlfriend and I allowed a burning, premature "re-entry". In retrospect, it has triggered quite a bit of anxiety in both of us.
If you're not wasted, the day is.
If you're not wasted, the day is.
"Is it just me, or does Iridium have more lives than a cat? I mean, hey, being slated for destruction two, or even three, times is one thing, but when even the US DoD steps in to take up the slack, you've got to wonder if those satellites are ever coming down."
I tracked a lot of the Iridium financial and PR stuff in the early days (several evil MBA projects ). Buried pretty deep in this info was the fact that the US Department of Defense was either a large potential customer, or a large actual customer but the details were secret. I have been wondering for a while if we would see something like this - it seems pretty clear now that DoD is making use of this system and doesn't want to give it up. Interesting.
sPh
It is very noble of the DoD to step in to prevent "widespread anxiety" of these satellites dropping into the atmosphere.
Next time you hear those in big business praising the vigor of the free market, and being critical of the welfare state, just think of the Defense Department. The Defense Department is the welfare mother for our corporate failures.
1. The DoD (and the Air Force in particular) bought into the Iridium concept early on. Ever since the Gulf War, the pressure has been on to use Commercial Of the Shelf (COTS) means when possible to reduce operating costs. Iridium gives the DoD global voice/fax/data for a fraction of the cost of deploying a pure military system.
2. As part of the deal with Iridium, the DoD built an access site that connects the Iridium system into Defense phone and data networks.
3. Per this press release, Iridium forms part of a critical link between AF leadership and foward deployed forces.
4. For other missions, such as Search and Rescue, Iridium phones have become backups for regular systems and in some instances the primary means for emergency communications.
These are all capabilities that the DoD won't want to easily give up. $72 Million over two years is a drop in the bucket compared to cost of developing and deploying a new constellation, as well as the back-end costs of converting over the missions listed above.
Actually, I do know that. I don't have enough math to calcualte an orbit, but I am familiar with the basics.
My point, not very well stated, is that the satelites won't begin to fall for several years. Not even Motorola would build 'em with an orbit the enters serious decay after just two years. When the time to de-orbit them comes it will take maybe two or three minutes worth of radio, and a few hours of a mathematician's time to handle the job. Hardly a couple of million dollars.
So long as they are up there, they could be useful. Motorola is preventing them from being useful. Satelites have been abandoned and claimed in the past (I can only recall one instance, but it has happened). Instead they are seeking to destroy them out of what I can only assume is a sense of pure bastardry. Also, I suppose, for a tax write off.
On the subject of decaying orbits, I will add that I'm still pissed that they chose to put the ISS into a decaying orbit. Ten year lifetime, feh! We won't make any progress in space until we have a permanant station.
Yes, it would cost more to boost the components into a higher orbit, but what really is the point in spending billions building a space station that you intend to crash after just a few yars?
"Mission Accomplished" -- George W. Bush May 1, 2003
Not only can you hide signal in it, but one of the up/down links is located in Quantico, Va., if memeory serves. Extremely convienient for three letter agencies.
*whup* "Get along, little electrons. Heeyah!"
- Iridium will not burn in vain
- The world will still have its own satellite telephone network
Bad:
- The astronomers will still curse Iridium for its "flare" effect
- Normal people will never use Iridium again...
Mercury News report
: FEAR OF PUBLIC OUTCRY CITED: Despite the relatively small risk, an interagency group led by the Justice Department was ``extremely unhappy at the prospect of a 14-month mass de-orbit,'' a background paper handed out at the Pentagon said. ``The group worried that this might create widespread anxiety and lead to a public outcry for ill-considered government action,'' the document said.
The Pentagon got a global phone system real cheap. They can encrypt all their transmissions, with add-ons or Iridium's existing feature set, and they have unlimited (well, up to the capacity anyway) use of the thing. Plus all the relationships with the local PTTs are toast, so they don't have to worry about China Telecom controlling them when the Green Berets are roaming around Tibet. Sounds like a great deal for the taxpayer!
sulli
RTFJ.
IANAI (I am not an Idiot), but I'm pretty sure that you are wrong. Did you read the response of everyone else and disregard the possibility that perhpas, just perhaps they might be right.
Iridium must have a plan for destruction because of physics and statistics, not a freaking tax writeoff. Just because you see everything in a slashdot induced corporate hate, doesn't mean that you are right. They are already taking tax write-offs on the business losses that they have I'm sure, but the destruction of Iridium is not about TAX WRITEOFF.
God, do you have a problem?
I love this: Grapes on fire
Since the DoD is going to save the iridium project, they might as well need some ideas as to what to do with them. I was thinking something along the lines of:
Turning them into a television service that broadcasts "Ishtar" to puerto rico 24 hours a day, 7 days a week
Streaming porn service for RV'ers across the nation
Anonymous spam remailer
seti?
From the bankruptcy courts point of view, if the satellites are still left up there, they're considered a liability of Iridium. Putting satellites into orbit isn't as simple as launching then forgetting about them, they have to pay millions to keep them in the correct orbit, they have to pay for the controlled re-entry when they finally reach the end of their life cycle. Also, if a few of these birds decided to drop on Washington for example... guess who would have liability and could get sued for corporate manslaughter.
Also, as long as these birds are kept in orbit and not sold off, they cannot be written off as a tax asset.
Keep this in mind next time they ask for more $$. Absurd.
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
rc-flyer:
The Iridium satelites are in what is called "low earth orbit". This means that they are actually flying through an extremely thin part of the Earth's athmosphere.
Um...the earth's atmosphere extends beyond the moon. An Earth satellite couldn't not be flying through an extremely thin part of the earth's athmosphere.
Also, "Earth" is capitalized; "the earth" is not capitalized. As in, "Mom" is capitalized; "the mom" is not capitalized.
the DOD pays $36M per year and has 20.000 phones. so they pay
36.000.000,-/20.000=1800USDannually for each phone
which comes out to
=> $150 / month, unlimited minutes, works world-wide.
now, if you ask me, the DOD has made an excellent deal here. plus, they get encryption and independence of local networks thrown in for free.
hey, i would go for a cell phone like that any day!
Gotta love our administration... rather than address the problem through education or doing additional reentry studies, they spend shut-up money to postpone the problem until the next administration. Those satellites are coming down sometime, it's just a matter of when!
Why not take the $72 mil and buy everyone in the U.S. an ice cream cone instead?
Maybe I can sell my Iridium equipment for a good price on eBay after all. I'll just wait a few more days/weeks...
I've seen this news before, and as a result, it might lower Globalstar's prices, IF the new administration of Iridium Satellite LLC are smart enough to fix their old marketing practices, and more importantly be able to operate the sixty-something satellite network, in terms of money and also in terms of remote management (technical), but Motorola's in the house for that.
They might get a good shot. But I won't use their services again UNLESS they prove to me that they can beat Globalstar's prices, service and coverage.
All conspiracy theories aside, doesn't it bother anyone that the DoD is spending $72 million to "clean up" someone else's mess? Isn't this essentially hazardous waste and as such subject to the laws that govern hazardous waste? Those who created this mess should not be allowed to simply walk away from it.
And here is an Iridium tracking site: Heavens Above
They also track the ISS, Mir and a few hundred others. All with the intent of telling you when you can see the critters going by overhead.
At this point Reagan probably doesn't remember how to spell Star Wars, much less remember that he had anything to do with it.
The DoD uses Iridium internally. In fact there is a second Iridium ground station in HI operated by the DoD.
It's not the only service that has world-wide coverage, but the terminals, sucky as they are, are much smaller than inmarsat et al.
The "widespread panic" argument is fun, but reality is that $72MM isn't a lot for them to pay to keep the cabability around (given the huge sunk cost paid by the investors). In fact this is probably the best deal the pentagon has ever gotten with their COTS purchasing program!
Most people I know like to see beautiful shooting stars at night. If anything, the DoD needs to fund MORE artificial shooting stars so people get used to it.
I always wondered, what would happen if NASA took a refrigerator box full of steel lugnuts and launched them towards the earth? Would they have enough mass to make a shooting star on re-entry? If so, the US could put on a worldwide pyrotechnics show with a man-made meteor shower. I think that would have an interesting psychological morale boost for the space programs of the world: "Space isn't some obscure place millions of miles away- it's close and friendly enough that we can launch meteor showers in it." I personally would like to see NASA flaunt the rather godlike ability to announce and then create meteor showers the world over.
Also, if perfectly good lugnuts would be a waste just to melt on re-entry, we could always use trash with no other practical use, like: [INSERT HUMOROUS ITEM HERE] (Possible Examples- Furbies, Aibos, AOL CDs, Florida Ballot trucks, Playstation 2s, iMacs..)Heh heh heh. With dry, cool, and topical wit like that I could be a tech cartoonist! ; -)
Databass
Granted, I don't understand the underlying costs for such an operation, but surely all the brilliant minds in the world can come up with something?
Why don't they use the birds for target practice as they re-enter? That way, we get to test the system and calm the public. What could be better? I'm sure DoD has some extra rockets they need to get rid of anyways.
I believe that the name of the failed company was Iridium, not that the satellites actually containded Iridium.
Maybe their problem was in their name choice. It's similar to naming a consulting company "The Devil"
The Devil says we need a new web server!
We're going to launch Iridium satellites into space!br>
At least they didn't name their company "Plutonium".
You can tell a college man, but you can't tell him much.
Yeah, but it is thick enough in LEO to cause a satellite to deorbit in a couple years, as opposed to geosynchronous orbits, which are stable for much, much longer.
Can't they just send all the satellites to Quasi?
On the serious side, I guess we should have all known that only the government could save this. After all, everybody else figured it was worthless, so naturally they have to spend our tax dollars on 'em.
That stuff about lots of reentries causing problems is bogus. Some people at DoD probably want them as yet-another-backup-channel in the event of a military communication problem. Why don't they just come out and say that?
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
At least then I would have a reason for the invulnerability
/. a$$hole know-it-all telling you what the 'real problem is'... ;)
Number one reason Iridium will not be de-oribited:$5,000,000,000 it cost to put it up.
'Everyone' obviously sees the value of the $5B array of sats 'we' have already put up - collectively the planet sees it as a usefull asset. The problem is* corporatists have corrupted our communities and our minds - we feel powerless - to the point where no one is willing to say "we can run them Non-Profit for the all people" or set up a quick and dirty 'world organization' and get quick commitments of government dollars to fund their usage... why is it that the next owners have to be a For-Profit corporation??? People of the planet obviously see the value - why cant 'civic will' step up and assume ownership???
With the alternative being de-orbiting $5,000,000,000 - what seems like a more plausable/reasonable/sane idea? How did 'profit making corporations' become the only method of force/action/will on the planet?? Why the HELL are we standing around hoping some corporatist is going to step up and save this resource 'for us'?
*Just what you need - another
The first paragraph of the CNN story didn't really seem to jive with my current perception of the Department of Defense, so I checked out the story at the DoD website. The story, at http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Dec2000/b12062000_ bt729-00.html, doesn't make any mention of the reason cited at CNN. I wonder who in the Department of Defense said that? At any rate, I think it would be rather naive to think that the DoD would spend all that money soley for the purpose of preventing "widespread anxiety." I do not doubt that was one of their reasons, but the reasons cited in the DoD news release seem much more valid to me. In my opinion, CNN got a big list of reasons, but tossed all of them out except the one which would probably get the most reaction from the masses. I mean, of course the military could use this kind of technology, but that's not newsworthy! But if CNN can report something interesting that will get them more public reaction, then they would certainly do that. Objective news just isn't interesting to most people anymore, or so it seems.
darrell
"widespread anxiety" on re-entry? More like "what do you mean I can't call that field op in Iraq? -- what do you mean their phone company went bust?"
Remember, they're the same government that spends $10,000 on a hammer and $30,000 on a toilet seat.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I think it was a great idea: Unclassified but Sensitive information could be phoned back to the US without high level personel having to locate a STU (secure telephone unit). Bypass landlines and possible wiretaps, and you can call from anywhere. I believe conversations from the handset to the satellite were encrypted, so it was a great investment. Of course, the Iridium shut down around 6 months later and the phones were useless...
-- "I am disrespectful to dirt. Can you not see that I am serious!"
Doesn't the DoD also have an expensive missle defense system? Couldn't they instead let those Iridium satellites fall to earth as targets to test out their precious new toys?
you've got to wonder if those satellites are ever coming down
Perhaps Slashdot should have used something other than the money icon. Maybe a lucky charm or the Energizer Bunny (with all due trademark symbols, or course).
gov't: yeah ...um ...people are terrified, senator. give us seventy-two mil.
senator: sure. [plop]
My .02,
My .02,
zencode
iactivist.org/jason
Actually its funny you mention the amount of lives that Iridium has had. I was thinking Mir was the biggest feline in space with all of its on agains/off agains but Iridium just might be the prize winner here. Maybe we should ask for a recount. Sad though, as hard as it is to get any kind of money for space projects, that the DOD would just fork over 72 million for this commercial space casualty.
Prospecting Stinks. Stop Wasting Time on Cold Calling.
Who needs SDI when you have a space-based cancer weapon? It works something like the sattelite laser from Real Genius only much, much slower.
Ridiculopathy.com: Our rejected plan to use it in a bid for world domination
The military has stepped in because Iridium is currently being used. By who? You guessed it. Its not going down until they get a replacement up there.
Nobody would give a crap if you sent down a satelite a day into the pacific. Nobody would even notice it anymore than they notice the hundreds of pounds of other cosmic crap that rains down on this planet every day.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Let me see.....$72 Million, 20000 Users, 2 Years. That works out at $150/Month, for unlimited use.. and as any two phones can call each other over the network, sound to me the DOD have a bargin.
What the article fails to mention is that the State Department already owns 2,000 Iridium handsets for use in remote spots.
There is a growing need for the encrypted services that will be made possible through a special "sleeve"" outfitted for secure handsets.
The Pentagon already owns about 1,600 Iridium satellite phones.
It will get unlimited air time for up to 20,000 government users for $3 million a month under the deal.
This will be ideal for easing the current crush of the U.S. military's ultra-high-frequency mesh for networking and point-to-point communications.
Currently, the department's communications satellites provide less than half such services required by U.S. forces, crowding lower-priority users off the airways.
What have I missed, is this the latest processor from Intel?
Thimo
--
Avoid the Gates of Hell. Use Linux!
Tax Write-off? Not exactly. Motorola probably took a loss in the bankruptcy, so they get a big enough tax write-off for their investment (which isn't the full five B's). What they'll have to do, though, is write down a loss for the 4th Quarter and this will affect corporate earnings, so it's not all a bed of roses for them.
It wasn't completely "worth more down than up", but it was getting close. This way, at least, the new Iridium company gets to survive while most of the investors, like Motorola, swallow the loss of their investment.
----
lake effect weblog
{Network engineer in Chicago--looking for work!}
Neither Galileo nor Cassini had nearly enough radioactive materials to give any significant radiation dosage. The only risk was if some of the plutonium became powdered or vaporized and then inhaled, and the canisters it was stored in are extraordinarily sturdy. I have no idea what you mean by raising the "temperature", but it sounds ludicrous.
--
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
Marketing usually tries to appeal to a customer base, right? As I recall, one of Iridium's earlier ads talked about how a man stuck in the middle of the Sahara could make a phone call. Is this supposed to appeal to all of those people stranded in the Sahara with no food or water but just happen to have a working Iridium phone with them?
--
"Everybody wants a rock to wind a piece of string around." - They Might Be Giants, "We Want a Rock"
The Air Force hasn't gotten anything..They are funneling money to a SUNK COST. The Air Force can't afford to run its own satcom network...at least it shouldn't...it should be spending its money higher priority systems.
The DoD which is chartered with tracking space junk and reentry of same would probably spend more than 72 million just following all of the deorbit paths down and releasing normal operational communiques saying "nothing to see here, just move along..."
It's just cheaper to pay to leave them there. And before you trot out your "Not my tax dollars !!!" warhorse just remember there are lots of things your tax dollars pay for that you should have no expectation or desire to take advantage of. Prisons are a good example of that.
http://spacedaily.com/news/iridium-00g.html
Which is exactly what my father ( a former-navy guy who works, indirectly, for the DoD) has been suggesting since the company went belly-up.
Do not confuse duty with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different.Duty is a debt you owe to yourself.
Anyone remember the old missile command video game? You'd shoot the falling objects, and when they exploded, they'd take out all the ones next to them?
How's this for a twist? The DOD shoots $72 Million in tax money at the falling objects, and they still all explode when nobody buys them.
Of couse, $72 Mil means someone in the Pentagon'll have to go without an extra pencil sharpener...
"Isn't that the sweetest little well-balanced undergraduate-level philosophy of life."
I have to make the point that I have no hate for (most) corporations. In fact, I see nothing wrong with tax deductions. Hell, my parents took tax deductions because of me (I was a dependent), yet I don't see them as greedy, just sensible.
Motorola has an obligation to it's stockholders. If it has a system that is sucking in cash with no chance of payout, then it is in the stockholders interests to get out of that venture while minimizing the losses. It would be totally foolish to do otherwise. And since they're taking tax write-off's why not take this one too?
Even if they couldn't get the writeoff, absorbing the costs of a useless system makes no sense from a bottom-line standpoint. And altruistic notions such as "open source satellite systems" are filtered out before they get there.
-- "I am disrespectful to dirt. Can you not see that I am serious!"
It is disclosed.
I'm hardly a liberal (quite the opposite, actually), but I'm appalled that we'd piss away this kind of money based on the possibility of people being worried about something. There are a lot of social program that could use that $72 million a hell of a lot more effectively. Even if we couldn't bring ourselves to spend the money on positive social programs, use it for SOMETHING REAL for crying out loud.
This has been a test. If this had been an actual Sig, you would have been amused.
I hear everyone on here talking about how "oh my god they are spending 72 millions dollars to save this worthless satelite system, why?" come on people for 72 million dollars they just bought an entire fleet of communication satelites they can use at their discression(sp), how much would that have cost had they tried to implement it themselves, and how much would you be bitching if they did that instead. This sounds like a hell of a lot better deal to me. Now i am sure they have alterior motives, well i say they'd damn well better use the satelites, think about it, would you rather the gov't spend 72 million and not use them or spend 72 million and get some communication use out of them. I did see someone say something about using them as satelite killers now thats a hell of an idea, but not as likely as the simple fact it would be more effective to use them as simple communcation satelites.
A Bugg
It turns out the big winner in this whole ordeal is Boeing. While Iridium Satellite LLC may have picked up the constellation (and associated liability), Boeing has "volunteered" to run Mission Control, at a cost of nearly $10M/month.
For those keeping score at home, that means the Plane-manufacturer-turned-information-company will, in a few months, have much more sunk into Iridium than the company that owns it. To Boeing's benefit, though, they could just give up on the whole deal, and not have to pay the expense of burning the things up.
In this light, this DoD contract looks like it'll be a boon for Boeing; afterall, they could always just step down at the end of the Gov't contract...
It seems Boeing was pretty insightful in their analysis of the potential win here... Now as to why Iridium Satellite LLC or the US Government are keeping this thing afloat, I'll leave that up to someone else to explain.
What's preventing the DoD from turning around, twiddiling a few bits, and cranking out a few radios, and have a nice, nifty, neat, new "not quite military quality" comms channel? Makes sense to me. --Reality is for people who can't handle drugs.
"The new owners, led by Dan Colussy, president of Pan American World Airways from 1978 to 1980,"... so now the guy who ran Pan-Am into the ground, is going to run Iridium? Wouldn't this just increase "anxiety on re-entry" ?
Kinda reminds me of the stories about crashing MIR into the ocean "just outside" of Australia. Not really comforting when thats just up the road.
What the DoD should do is spend all that money on a big parade to celebrate the Iridium re-entry into orbit. As the pieces enter the atmosphere everyone can watch them burn up like fireworks and celebrate in techno-pagan style a la "Max Headroom". All this new technology, we need to get on the ball making up new holidays, and Science Fiction has showed us enough examples that we should get on that already!
What about the anxiety of wasting $72,000,000 tax dollars to satisify the minds of those who have watched a few too many made-for-television 'Asteroid' movies?
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seumas.com
Is Iridium actually being used a lot currently or will be ever be used on a wide scale? I mean: is there any other reason for doing this than preventing "anxiety"?
Stupid backgrounds
The people in DoD have to somehow justify the $72 million dollar cost of keeping these birds in space. In this era of budget cuts and spending caps, the DoD doesn't have as much money for discretionary spending as it did during the Reagan years. So they come up with the idea that they are doing this to "prevent anxiety" and not because they really want access to a global satellite network. Now the can just put the $72 million under emergency spending and find a friendly congressman to put it in the armed forces budget.
Sig Under Construction. Please Come Back Later.
Kiss The Blade's hilarious MO is to make straight-faced "devil's advocate" posts with just enough misinformation and logical fallacy to send the average intelligent-but-gullible slashdot user into a blindly raging counterattack. Normally, the only reason I don't mod him (-1, troll) is that unlike the hot grits morons he's so good at it. 23 replies, 6 replies, 39 replies, 11 replies... he picks up everything from flaming rants to philosophical theses. That earns respect.
But damnit, KTB, what are you doing now???
This sets a bad precedent. The DoD is acting to prevent totally unjustified anxiety on the part of millions of Americans. I thought the function of Government Departments was to do what is right, not what people think is right
I totally agree with this. What is going on? Did you get bored and decide to write something honest instead of baiting people? Did you realize that many of us were on to you weeks ago, and decide to throw in a monkey wrench by posting something reasonable? Is your karma dangerously close to the default score: -1 threshold?
I don't detect any hyperbole, feigned ignorance, or baiting here. And what scares me is the thought that maybe KTB hasn't changed, maybe I'm just in the select group of misinformed idiots being parodied by one of his posts, and don't realize it...
(Score -1: Confused)
the only widespread anxiety caused by falling iridiums would be in the wallets of the poor suckers who invested in it originally. and if there _were_ going to be damage outside of that group, well it's the responsibility of those same poor suckers to pay for it.
the point of the system where we set up corporations and invest in them is to encourage people with capital to take risks with it and create more stuff. a side effect is that people who take stupid risks lose their capital and it goes to someone smarter. ideally.
when the government (i didn't even know the DOD was allowed to _do_ this sort of thing outside of a contract/bidding process) steps in and bails a company out like this, they're making ours a system that rewards those with capital whether or not they use it intelligently. a system like that doesn't produce new, good things, it produces lemon sattelites and reapportions the wealth in the system before to keep the people who made them in charge.
grr.
/end rant
Why is this story about a ridiculously poor business investment listed under Science?
I have no idea why the DOD would care about this if there wasn't an Echelon angle to it. What I mean is that each, or many, of the Iridium satellites are probably intercepting electronic communications for Echelon.
I am not a lawyer.
Iridium CEO: "Governments of the world, pay us $72 *MILLION* dollars or we will crash our satellites into your major cities!"
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
This is not corporate welfare it is the delay the Air Force needs to justify their purchase of this constellation for their intelligence and communication purposes.
Many theologists have been hypothesizing the prophesy of the Mark of the Beast, as described in Revelations 13,14,15,16 and 19, will actually be realized in biochips.
The same biochip developed in the early 80's (for fish hatcheries) and now used in over 300 zoos, over 80 government agencies in at least 20 countries, pets (everything from lizards to dogs), electronic "branding" of horses, monitoring lab animals, fisheries, endangered wildlife, automobiles, garment tracking, hazardous waste, and according to the experts - humans. To date, over 7 million animals have been "chipped". The major biochip companies are A.V.I.D. (American Veterinary Identification Devices), Trovan Identification Systems, and Destron-Fearing Corporation.
While I would definitely recommend keeping your eye on these companies... one can't help but take a look at the new technologies in wireless communications and global positioning? I have been proposing it would be much easier to keep track of all us with these technologies, as opposed to insuring every person born is implanted with a bio-chip. Afterall, the Mark does not necessarily need to be IN us, only ON us. And the way people have been using their cellular phones recently, which will only continue to increase --- These phones are seldom NOT ON their individual user!
Consider Revelations 14:9....
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his MARK in his forehead, or in his hand,
Think about it!!!
http://www.truechristiansunite.com Home of the 1st TRUE Christian AI -- Hal!!!
I agree. My understanding has been that the military and as will as various diplomats have been the ones actually using Iridium.
The company went under because they couldn't find other customers who needed to fly around the entire world and use a big clunky phone.
To Iridium's credit their business plan was not hopeless. There is some market for big clunky global phones, just probably not enough to keep up the cost especially with two or more other companies trying to do the same thing.
Pretty soon, we'll probably hear about how Digital:Convergence is getting the CIA to subsidize their stupid idea for "the safety of national security".
Ugh. Well, Iridium, there's a paper-thin line between desperation and idiocy, and you've just crossed it.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
The company that put the satelites up went bankrupt, rather than a) selling them cheap, or b) abandoning them so others can claim them it is c) planning to destroy them if it doesn't get millions.
Once you put something into a stable orbit there isn't any reason to send it back down. Any mass in orbit is eventually going to be valuable simply in that it is already there. But, corporate idiocy strickes again "If we can't get our high fees, we'll just destroy our expensive investment." I simply don't understand this attitude: the money has already been spent, crashing the satelites results in an utter loss, any payment for the satelites is at least something.
"Mission Accomplished" -- George W. Bush May 1, 2003
Just tell these people to breathe into paper bags and bring down the satellites!
Flavio
Is it just me, or does Iridium have more lives than a cat? I mean, hey, being slated for destruction two, or even three, times is one thing, but when even the US DoD steps in to take up the slack, you've got to wonder if those satellites are ever coming down.
If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd say that the Iridium project was actually an integral part of the new global monitoring system the US uses to track late model vehicles and toothpaste choices. At least then I would have a reason for the invulnerability of the Iridium system.
As it stands, I can only assume that it's the aliens that have kept Iridium flying so the astronomers can't see them. It wasn't a design fluke that the satellites wreak havoc on astronomers; the aliens got tired of hiding behind the moon, so they set up Iridium so they can take field trips around the earth.
You know, on the other hand, perhaps it's just an annoying thing that just won't die... kind of like Windows (or FORTRAN), I guess.
This will cause the tax-payers blood pressure to rise significantly. On the other hand, the Gauls will feel a lot safer.
happen?
The salvation of Iridium will not reduce the odds of someone being clobbered by a deorbiting satellite in the future. There are still 87 birds up there (one recently deorbited without incident, see article). Every one of these will come down eventually. The odds of hitting someone will rise marginally as the human population increases.
Maybe the DoD wants a bit of time to make sure the Russians are ready to tell the difference between an Iridium and an ICBM.
I bet Reagan called this one in. Now he can finally have that Star Wars Defense System that he always wanted...as soon as they enable the hidden laser grid on the birds.
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Let me give you the lowdown
The sum of 72 million US dollars is a small investment compared to the hundreds of millions of dollars which the DoD has already invested in developing technologies based on Iridium. Since the inception of the project, the DoD has been developing communications systems based on Iridium. Now that they are ready to field them, the plan is to destroy the satellites. D'oh! When the announcement to destroy the satellites was made last spring, I asked one of the DoD's communications planners (forgive me if I obfuscate the actual identity) if the DoD could buy Iridium to protect their investment. According to this fellow, this would require renegotiating a maze of international agreements made for Iridium. It's one thing for a country to negotiate a deal with a private corporation. It's quite another thing to make the same deal with the US Department of Defense! The DoD is simiply attempting to buy extra time for Iridium before eating the loss.