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Sony Discusses Plans for the Playstation 3
1+1trouble writes: "Gamespot is running an article outlining some rough features of the PS3. There isn't much to be said yet, but you can certainly see where Sony is going with it. I wouldn't be surprised if they struck some kind of deal with Tivo. From the sound of it, one can hardly tell if it will be a gaming console at all." I still don't have a PS2, why am I caring about the PS3, huh? I need my Tekken Tag! Curse CowboyNeal!
Certainly any statements about Playstation 3 are for the same purpose as the initial tiny 'leaked' tid-bits of the PS2 way back when -- hype. The hype machine stole Dreamcast sales from Sega, because of those people waiting for a PS2. So Sony wants to have the hype on PS3 early so that even some people will think twice before they buy a Microsoft X-Box 2.
However I am not surprised they would start on the PS3 right away, since they have the lifetime of the PS2 to design it. It's not like the video card industry. In order to stay competitive (the release cycles are insane for video cards) companies like Nvidia and ATI are forced to sometimes have three teams working on three separate products -- the next chip, the one after that and the one after that. In order to have a release every 5-6 months or so, they don't have the luxury all the time of building on previous chips all the time. So several teams have to work concurrently to get that chip out and stay competitive.
Slashdot trolls are so infatuated with the concept of trolling, that they don't stop to check their grammar.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Actually, my point is that a polygon with a sand texture wouldn't be good enough even if you were as far as a few feet away from the sand. Go to the beach on a sunny day, and look at the sand: When a grain of sand reflects the image of the sun into your eye, you see a bright flash somewhat larger than the grain of sand. Move you head a few inches to one side, and that grain goes dim and another flashes. To model this effect accurately, you would need to render all those surfaces to see which in each frame was reflecting the sun's image.
I imagine the effect is best when the sun is low in the sky but still bright.
Of course... you could approximate this with some sort of hack, but my point is that if you dither the geometry up to pixel-size (polygon reduction), the image might not come out the same as if you rendered all of the sub-pixel geometry and then dithered the image.
As another example, think of zooming from a leaf out to a bird's-eye view of a mountain range. How do you render that? Say there's ten million trees in view.... do you render them as spheres with texture maps? Where do the texture maps come from? Do you have texture maps for all those levels of resolution? And each tree has to be somewhat individual to get that "realistic" look. What happens when wind blows through the trees? Do you have individual textures and animations for all that too?
For certain scenes, it seems you *have* to render sub-pixel geometry to get photo-realism.
-Erik
..are saying that it isn't that hard. In fact the biggest proponent of hard development would be....oh yah, the company who got paid scads of cash by MS to make there title X-box exclusive. You don't happen to work at oddworld inhabitants do you?
Vermifax
Vermifax
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Playstation 3?!?! Geez I haven't even got enough money to buy two yet. This is as bad as intel is getting. So whats out now pentium 60?
The whisper in your ghost.
I've waited and waited for a PS2. I was going to use a $250 Best Buy gift card to purchase it. Well today I found out I probably won't be able to get one until March or April. So that's that! Sony doesn't need my money if they can't even distribute a product successfully. I'm not buying a PS2. I bought a DVD player (which was going to be the primary use of the PS2) instead. I love the DVD player, it's great.
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
Why hope that the X-box in particular smacks the PS2 down? Frankly, if I wanted to play American-made games (yes I realize that X-box's games won't be exclusively American) then I'd just play them on my PC. I expect to play a different type of game on a console. I play those games on my Playstation and on my Dreamcast.
I would hate to see Sega or Sony (but mostly Sega) go away because of the games on those consoles that you just can't get anywhere else. I didn't buy a Dreamcast for Quake III Arena.
While wipeout was definately a success, final fantasy 7 made the psx a hit where it truly counts for the console companies (not counting microsoft, yet): Japan. the playstation and sega saturn were close rivals for the hearts of the japanese, until ff7 came out. after that, the console CLEARLY pulled away from saturn, on its way to being the most successful (nonportible) console of all time.
Microsoft has NO direct control over PC game development, and no revenues from third party titles.
They have TOTAL control over X-Box development, and about $8 per disc royalties. This is no different to the situation with Nintendo, Sega, or Sony.
because many people that young have probably grown up with their playstations, but don't remember the "glory days" of NES & SNES. I'm in my mid twenties and still buy any game that has Zelda in the title.
Maybe 'cause you've been playing every 2P fighting gamesince Street Fighter 1/2 stoned and drunk.(I know I have:) Well,actually I hardly ever drink...
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
"Sega and Sony don't cheat their third-parties like Nintendo does. Period."
Sony recently threatened retailers to pull all X-Box advertisement or risk not getting ANY PS2's. And I think its quite possible that Sony is leaning heavily on square to have them develop only for them.
"The number one reason for the N64 cartridge format was a combination of control and greed."
Actually, load time was a major factor. Control, sure control is an issue, but that is mainly because Nintendo has had up until now very tight quality control. As for price, i can't comment on that.
As for the X-box giving the developers the choice, do you really think EA and Konami et al will release regionless games? Heck no then they would have to have simultaneous language releases or risk having everyone import.
As for price, I agree that there really isnt enough knowledge on either console to determine it, but it will probably end up having both N and MS eat a substantial amount of loss.
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The P2 has to be the UGLIEST looking system I've ever seen! I don't care if it can play dvds, and playstation 1 and 2 games. There just doing this, to make more money, They are only making good games for playstation 2, therefore making people buy the playstation 2, to enjoy the gaming once again.
Dudes I already got the future of gaming, it's called a PC.
... blah blah blah all the way up to N64 and PS with no problems at all and I get to download all those games for free too! Some emulators even let me play these games over a network! WOW
:(
YES, I've had one for years now and all I have to do is UPGRADE it every so often. Sure, upgrading costs a little more than the newest console, but I get all my games for FREE! In fact, my PC can play atari, NES, SNES, SEGA MASTER SYSTEM
Who cares if I have to use win98 to run all these games, I get my OS for free too! And when winME becomes the minimum requirements for these games, guess what, I'll upgrade my computer to that for free as well!
I sit at home and for free I can play more in-depth games with better graphics and more options, while some of my best friends are standing outside in the cold overnight to shell out a week's paycheck for the latest system that will be obsolete in a year and a half, only to find that they will have to PAY for all the games they play on it, even sometimes RENTING games!
Most of these people are even waiting for the PS2 HARD DRIVE to come out and the KEYBOARD and the MOUSE that they will have to pay tons of money for. And how much is it for that 8MB memory card? CRAZY! They are trying so hard to turn the console into a PC! These people think it's so cool that they can connect to the internet with their dreamcast when I've been doing the same with my computer for i don't know how long.
Go and shell out your cable company that extra 20 bucks a month for service and fuck it, even pay a warez site 10 bucks a month for leech access. That's 30 bucks for unlimited games dudez! Either that or go to Toys R Nutz and play your TEKKEN TAG and SSX for 40 bucks a piece with no options for adding player patches or extra levels and a limited 8MB to store your extras at.
The choice is yours but somehow I feel that you'll fuck it up.
How the fuck can you make a statement like that? Have you actually seen or played an X-box? Your opinion is based solely on Microsoft's own marketing/propaganda machine. I have nothing against Microsoft, and I would imagine that the X-box will be a strong competitor when it is released, but your opinion is utter BS. Get a clue, moron!
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
should try to design some proper games for their current consoles before going any further/faster/ Many of the games currently appearing seem to be "fillers" ("Over 200 titles available!") Too bad Donkey Kong still blows away most of their titles when it comes to pure fun and playability. Nintendo (my opinion only) seems to focus a bit more on the Games-side of the GamesConsole, but it seems to me that all of the above-mentioned companies should pay a bit more attention to what makes a great game great instead of what can we sell next/ as fast as possible.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
Remember when sales on the PSX were just starting to die down, and magazines/media started speculating on a psx2? Remember how much Sony DENIED any type of R&D on a new model stating that the gaming technology for the first PSX wasn't even 70% of what it was capable of? Jeez...
Sounds like Sony has REALLY changed their attitude about news releases. Of course, with as many problem as they're having with the PSX2, I can see why...
Just a thought and rememberance...
--Chemguru
I don't think anyone is really surprised by any of this. Everyone is just starting to realize that in order to dominate in the communications/entertainment industry, it is going to have to happen through the television. The internet aspires to be tv, and in the future, whatever we make pop up on a screen in our house will be more like tv today than the internet today. Of course companies want to try to take control of that. Think of how poorly e-commerce is doing on the whole, and then look at the Home shopping network on tv, or those guys who yell as loud as they can about basketball cards. Tv is what works, and that is the route that all these companies have to start with. And as far as being worried about Microsoft or Sony having a monopoly, it'll only last if they don't get TOO greedy or stupid. If the PS3 combines too many Sony-exclusive technologies, then it will fail. Sony is one of the biggest electronics manufacturers in the world, yet not one of my friends owns any of their mp3 players because they use a dumbass format (even though the other ones are supported). Just because a company is trying to have the biggest market share (and what company doesn't?) doesn't mean that they'll get it. It'll have to be worthwhile for the people.
Trolls, it must be cool to be that bored.
Hmm... Interesting idea. The BeOS filesystems and slick media architectures would make for an interesting console...
But... I don't see it happening.
--Chemguru
With the PlayStation 3, Sony hopes to merge content from its other divisions, such as Sony pictures and Sony music, by establishing a direct chain of distribution and by having the PlayStation 3 serve as the platform hub. Additionally, Sony's plans for the PS3 include online shopping functions, online banking, and other interactive Internet services. Naturally, some of these functions could be introduced to the mass market with the PlayStation 2, but Sony's digital convergence plans for the PS3 seem to be on a larger scale.
Here is how i see the future of console wars: short supply of PS2s until the 2001 Xmas season leads to low PS2 sales in the US market. Sony beefs up the production to meet the Xmas projections, but by that time MS ships a bit delayed Xbox in volume. MS marketing gives the perception to US consumers that their console is the newest, the most powerful and has the most games. Majority of consoles bought during Xmas 2001 are MS Xbox. Sony and Nintendo sell mostly to niche markets resulting in huge inventory problems.
To get back on the top Sony begins to hype up PS3 as a replacement for your PCs and internet appliances. In retialation MS begins to ship internet access, home productiving and other home user software for Xbox. With a huge installed base, MS again is capable of leveraging itself into another market. What we now know as a PC becomes replaced with MS branded consoles, with MS controlling the software, components and i/o devices.
Remember when Sega said they're pretty much selling off their hardware business? And all those rumors of the sale to Nintendo? Sega probably isn't ever making another system again, no matter how much you love 'em. You can thank Sony's marketing machine for that.
I prepaid for my PS9, with the direct mind interface, and I'll just wait for delivery of that.
to get complete realism (i.e. indistinguishable from film of real live things) you need 2.4 billlion polygons/sec
I've given this some thought over the years, and I'm not sure "indistinguishable from reality" is going to be possible without a huge, HUGE amount of polygons.
Now, to render your office, or even a forest scene or a city scene, fine: take your 2.4 billion polygons and run. But let's try to render a beach scene. Each grain of sand has the capability of sparkling and making a pixel white... even ones quite far away. But different ones sparkle as the camera moves, so you have to render each one with reflectivity and all. Are you going to render all of those grains of sand out fifty yards away until they can no longer flash a pixel at 640x480?
Say there's 2500 grains of sand per square centimeter (50 on each edge) That's 25,000,000 grains of sand per square meter... even if you only have to render that detail out in a 5x5 meter area, we're talking 625,000,000 grains of sand on the surface... now let's model them realistically so when people walk on the sand it caves in just right... oh, and render some waves and sea grass in the background while you're at it?
2.4 billion polygons, my bottom.
-Erik
Great news for you! Nintendo have made a console for GAMES, not an interactive central entertainment hub, and because of this the GameCube will be lauching cheap.
$199 is the maximum that the GameCube will launch for in the USA, with rumours (that are very likely untrue) that it might go at $149 to undercut the other two.
Any console getting Mario, Metrod, Wave Race, Star Wars and Zelda (just to name a few) all fairly close to launch will have a very strong lineup just from 1st and 2nd parties. And with the 3rd parties starting to appear and leak (Capcom and Resident Evil 0, EA with 'Sport 200x', Acclaim with Turok just to name a couple) the GameCube is on course to have the best QUALITY of games. And we all know that quality comes over quantity...
Nintendo won't win back the crown this generation; this generation will probably be a three(or two)-way tie. But with the sad lineup of PS2 games at the moment, and a probable launch delay (typical of Microsoft- they don't even have finalised dev kits to developers) from the overhyped and overrated Xbox (you have to look at this image rebutting MS fud), Nintendo should regain a large portion of marketshare this time around.
Hrmm, I think I got carried away again ;)
Anyway, these are just a few of the reasons while I'll be buying a GameCube on day 1...
shouldn't they be more concerned about getting playstation 2's out, inexpensive, and available? it's still hard to find them. that's a major problem with game consoles, and how the PC has them beat-manufacturers are always too many generations ahead in thought. screw the PS3 for now. Sony should worry about making the PS2 the console they promised it to be.
Wow, what a change!
Just to be fair, Nintendo isn't so great on release dates, either. The N64 was originally slated for a 1994 release (but then had legal problems with SONY), then 1995, then 1996, then late 1996.
Nintendo is also awful with software launches because they don't pressure Miyamoto enough to hurry up and finish the games. Incidently, he may be a great game maker, but he's a lousy programmer from what I hear because he likes to focus on the smallest details very early in the development. Later these details have to be scrapped or greatly reworked.
Yes, I have heard rumors that the Gamecube will be $200 or less. If it comes at that price tag and has a good Mario, Zelda, Metroid, or whatever game to ship with it, I'm probably there.
yes, I know that in today's world, sony rules the world and what not
but no matter what I still Like nintendo ...
could the guys at slashdot please make a new ps2 topic, so for those of us who like nintendo, sega, or even atari don't have to be bothered with ps2 related matters
thank you
Haven't you seen their ads for the PS9?
They've been accepting pre-orders on the PS9 since the ad was on the drawing boards...
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Anyone who posts "Don't buy console x, wait for console y", or "console x sucks, I have a Y and the games are much better"
... is obviously a school kid.
School kids are forced to enter insane debates where they eulogize the console they own because they can't afford to buy another one.
Anyone older (and employed) and still serious about playing games has at least a PS,PS2,DC,N64,gameboy and several PCs.
Or... um, is that just me?
Anyway, it's nice being able to buy games without looking at what format they're for.
Isn't the point of this announcement to try to freeze the X-Box and Nintendo's Cube? Microsoft's got the money and guts to stay in it for the long haul, and Nintendo owns its own software development and characters. And finally, where's the killer games for PS2, never mind the PS3?
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Games are not like OS's and office applications. People don't depend on them. Fun is good, money is bad, balance them out and you win, end of story. MS can't control games like they OS and office standards, except for direct X. For the most part, what people want will win out because what you are using for games doesn't depend on what everyone else is using near as much. I think that is the distinction you are missing. I also think that the Xbox and the gamecube are going to rock.
This Wiki Feeds You TV and Anime - vidwiki.org
Calm down... yeah, I _am_ anti-MS, but hardly a zealot. And no, MS doesn't control PC development. Hint: PCs are made up of more than an OS. Or did MS suddenly buy IBM, Quantum, NVidia, etc.? If MS _really_ controlled development of all PC parts, I very much doubt that non-MS PC games could be at all good.
All right, let's say the Xbox wins. Sony, Sega, Nintendo are blown off the financial map and/or bought by Microsoft. Do you think this would advance innovation in game development? Do you really?
--
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
- Microsoft is not planning on ever making the Xbox into a computer. The Xbox is simply designed to be a video game console and a developer's dream to work with (Try saying that about Indrema).
- If you think Microsoft is bad, you should read up on Nintendo's track record. Those guys are the kings of artificial shortages, fixing prices and lying about release dates to drum up hype. Does anyone really believe GAMECUBE will be ready this Fall? Add in the fact that Nintendo has screwed over the consumer every chance they get for the purposes of greed. Need examples?
- Suing Tengen back in the NES days.
- Forcing NES game developers to be EXCLUSIVE to the NES console, a policy that completely destroyed Sega's Master System
- Dropping 1st party software prices on the N64 while charging licensees an arm and a leg.
- N64's outdated cartridge format
- .
- GC's Mini-DVD discs at *one-third* the capacity of normal DVDs.
- Forcing region protection in games so that imports can't be played without modifying your console and voiding the warranty. Others are guilty of this, but Microsoft isn't.
Know your history and current events before putting on the "Slashdot blinders" and bashing Microsoft. After all, they're doing something really *good* for an industry traditionally dominated by Japanese companies._Adam Poulos ;
They haven't merged because consoles are a lot cheaper than an equivalent (in terms of game-playing) computer. If all you want to do is play games, you shouldn't bother with extra functionality. So they'll always have a niche market.
160-some-odd posts and nobody's suggested a beowulf of these things?
And a reference to Sandra Bullock instead of Natalie Portman...
my-oh-my, times are a'changin'
my sig's at the bottom of the page.
A friend of mine walked in to CompUSA the other day and asked for a Playstation 2, and whaddya know, they had some. He's very happy now, though his bank balance is 300 dollars lower.
Aciel
aciel@speakeasy.net
It was despite the PS2 hype; if Sony could produce as many PS2 machines as it wanted, I'm sure they would have had the PS2 outselling the PS1.
What happened was that they could produce the PS1 in mass quantaties, but could not produce the PS2 in similarly large amounts.
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
Um. Where is the PS3 info?
In re polys.
:)
You can do many things with extra polys. For instance real reflections (not reflection maps) can be done by rendering the scene again from the POV of the reflecting poly. Shadow volumes can be created by a trick involving the stencil buffer, the z buffer, and a render from the POV of the light.
There will ALWAYS be a way to use the abiltiy to transform and render extra polys, no matter how many you have
If the PS3 thing is vaoprware, what does that make that PS9 commercial that was on tv a month ago?
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
The FRY's here is running a PS2 next to a Dreamcast running equivelent 3D fighting games.
The Dreamcast looks a whole lot better.
Fry's is selling a LOT of Dreamcasts.
The failure to include a low-pass filter (generally referred to as "full screen anti-aliasing") in hardware really cost Sony in market perception. Yes, it can be done in software but not without eating up a lot of system resources
Add to that the market opportunity they created for SEGA by Sony's failure to meet the market demand they created and you have, basically, a disaster.
Mu guess is that Sony has mreo or less given up on this round and is pinning their hopes on getting ahead of SEGA in the next one.
That's a good point. However, I was just talking about third-parties. The move you mention was pretty low for a company like Sony.
"And I think its quite possible that Sony is leaning heavily on square to have them develop only for them."
Actually, I've seen quite a few MS Xbox interviews that hint otherwise. Evidently, there's something planned with MS/Square at the Tokyo Game Show ...
"Nintendo has had up until now very tight quality control"
Nintendo's quality control is no better than Sony or Sega's.
"Heck no then they would have to have simultaneous language releases or risk having everyone import."
A simple fact: A majority of *normal* consumers don't import, let alone care if it's an option.
"but it will probably end up having both N and MS eat a substantial amount of loss"
Sony is the one with a severe lack of five-star games and running into every possible problem along the way. Don't ignore the fact that the PS2 is still *way* out of a reasonable price range for it to dominate.
_Adam Poulos ;
The planning does have to begin now, however. Currently, all they can talk about are theoretical limits and projected pricetags. With Sega's "giving up," of home hardware systems and focus on software, Sony is hinting that the dismal sales of PS2 might demand the drop of their home hardware biz.
Why did I say "dismal?" Because had they released their original estimate of systems, 1 million, they would have sold them out in 1-7 days. Instead they only sold half that many and have been trickling ever since. Dreamcasts outnumber Playstation 2's. Hardware sales are usually at a loss and made up in licensing sales. And lastly, Sony charges less for licensing, hence the cheaper-than-Nintendo prices, making their profit margin lower.
In the long run, however, I predict the sales will be wonderful, and the DVD player feature will topple the competition. Next time, however, expect Sony to license the hardware spec for PS3 to an exclusive manufacture for about 12-24 months sales period so they can make money immediately.
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Episode IV, A New Hope = PS1
Cool, but when you look at it in retrospect, kind of cheesy. It was the best thing going in it's time, with a good story, but what the heck were those crappy blockouts around the Tie Fighters?
Episode V, The Empire Strikes Back = PS2
Unsatisfying, because it is only a middle episode. There only to bridge the gap from the opening story to the finale. Lots of foreshadowing (Yoda: No, there is another). Kind of hard to get, but it's Star Wars, so it must have been good, right?
Episode VI, Return of the Jedi = PS3
In theatres EVERYWHERE. You couldn't swing a Lightsabre without hitting one. Finally, wrapping up a story, and adding in a bunch of midgets in fur that help take on an empire!
Episode 1, The Phantom Menace = PS4
This is where we go back to the beginning, to see how it all started. We find Shinichi Okomoto soldering together an Atari 2600 (sans plastic case) and causing a temporal rift in the space time continuum. Ken Kutaragi comes in to buy young Okomoto from the junk dealer, Commander Taco. Alas, Taco loses the Tekken, and must sulk back to his junk pile filled with Super NES and monochrome Gameboys.
Disclaimer: IANAE (I Am Not An Economist)
You do have a point. On the other hand, there is still the possibility of the following scenario: MS develops the Xbox, it rocks, people buy it, the other consoles die, MS is left with a monopoly. What happens then? What if MS decides they want a monopoly in game development, too? Once they have a stranglehold on the console market, it's going to get really, really tough for other consoles to carve out a nitche for themselves. That means even if the quality for the Xbox games starts to plummet, console gamers will be left with no other choice. And since bad games are always cheaper to make than good ones...
Like I said, this isn't my area of expertise. Is there a reason why this won't happen?
--
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
Well that's exactly the point. When are game consoles and PC's going to merge? Or better yet, why haven't they yet?
Ok, so there are advantages to having the exact same hardware. The main reason is probably the opportunity for profits that come with keeping your hardware proprietary; you can only buy PS2 accessories/upgrades from Sony, for example. But look what that did for Apple.
You'd think they'd see that video/audio/gaming/telephony apps will trivial for low-cost PC's by the time the PS3 would be ready.
Or do you think there will always be a market for the newest, cutting-edge bells and whistles applied to entertainment?
If you find sorting through your porn collection 'tedious,' you need better porn.
It isn't FUD. It is generally true if Nintendo, Sony, or MS says 'our next generation of consoles will be more powerful than our current generation'
If this were FUD to freeze sales of X-Box and G-Cube, it would also have the same effect on PS2; people would wait for the PS3 instead of buying PS2s!
As for the 1000x more powerful, that's debateable. If it's expected to be 5 years from now, in the same age of operation as the PSX, then it will be at least 30-50 times more powerful, if only using Moore's respective laws. If they optimize and plan carefully, they may realistically get 100-200 times more powerful, but 1000x seems a bit, well, generous.
As for vapor, it's long term planning. Lack of long term planning wouldn't bode Sony, or any corporation, well!
As for PS2 killer games? What about Sons of Liberty? Don't forget FF10!
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
Internal Computing Power:
CPU: 128 Bit "Emotion Engine" X 1000
System Clock Frequency: 300 MHz X 1000
Cache Memory Instruction: 16KB - Data: 8KB + 16KB (ScrP) X 1000
Main Memory Direct Rambus (Direct RDRAM) X 1000
Memory Size: 32MB X 1000
Memory Bus Bandwidth: 3.2GB per Second X 1000
Co-processor: FPU (Floating Point Unit): Floating Point Multiply, Accumulator x 1, and Floating Point Divider x 1 X 1000
Two Vector Units: VU0 and VU, Floating Point Multiply, Accumulator x 9, and Floating Point Divider x 3 X 1000
Floating Point Performance: 6.2 GFLOPS X 1000
Okay, sony is all about trying to get another over-hyped, under inventoried, expensive gaming system out there. After all the hype and unreal claims about performance, it's still a good system (if you can kill enough people on the waiting list to move yourself up). Sony (hopefully) is going to at least wait a few years on that PS3. They should wait until the capabilities of the PS2 are getting stretched before they hit gamers (like me) again. Also, with all the stuff going down with the PS2, the impeding XBox and Game Cube, what are the major game companies gonna do? (especially Square: Hey, I don't know what I'd play if it weren't for FF) Square already has games slated for the PS2, are they planning on releasing any games on other systems? Not unless Nintendo can cut one hell of a deal to bring them back to their side. Thus, Sony can still make out big: 1. Send over a load of PS2s FAST. The XBox is on the horizon, and my bet is, it's gonna outperform Sony's item. The Gamecube? Hey, it's probably gonna be doing well too. By this time next year, I expect the PS2 to look like the Dreamcast, not wort replacing, but not worth buying either. 2. Keep Square on your side somehow. Yeah, so I'm really into their games in the first place. But one of the reasons the PS1 did so well was because of FF VII. Square is the monster in the RPG arena, and they have a fan base that's going to migrate to any platform that they choose to. If Sony can keep Square in its corner, they can at least count on that squad to support their game console area for the time being.
my last post, i promise ;). When i said the N and MS would eat a lot of loss, i meant that they will probably end up in a price war for the two consoles. Either that or GC will be substatially cheaper. Still i would put it past MS to eat whatever it takes to match GC price, and in turn for GC to drop its price by another 50...
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And they should not talk about, or plan, or even think about anything else until then. God forbid they should think about the future, or what might happen after the ps2 is in full swing. It's totally irrelevant right now.
In case you hadn't noticed. That was sarcasm. I can't stand it when people say things like that. "Shouldn't India concentrate on getting food to the poor before they start trying to put down Internet lines?" It makes no sense whatsoever. There are thousands upon thousands of people who work for Sony. They neither can nor should have them all working on the same problem at the same fucking time, moron. God, do you really think that making an announcement that they had been thinking about a ps3 will slow down the ps2 in any way whatsoever?
Amber Yuan 2k A.D
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Miyamato is not a programmer. He may have picked something up about coding over the years, but he does not do any of it himself. He only directs the efforts of others and does the art.
Amber Yuan 2k A.D
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Look at the characters in soul calaber. They look beautiful, right? The thing is, there's only two of them and a simple backgrould. Rendering, say, a car isn't dificult. Rendering a crowd of dozons of people is going to be very difficult.
Amber Yuan 2k A.D
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
I dunno; I would think the hype machine, if it were turned on, would steal as many sales away from the PS2 as it would from the Xbox and the GCube.
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
just ripped right through my copy of 'beaches'. burnt andgouged! bastards
It's beaches.... not like it's a big loss. Had it been anything other than a Bette Midler flick, I would be worried.
I think the console did you a favor.... Be thankful!
Not to mention only one of those systems (Genesis) had "critical level" amount of games. Master System is arguable, though, but the CD and 32x are like a Nintendo64 without the support of Nintendo (i.e. no games to speak of).
Actually, if you think about it, it would make a LOT of sense for the PS2's net capabilites to come from BeIA, just like the Evilla. One support system instead of two, etc. I really don't see Sony creating two separate infrastructures that do the same thing. In other words, the BeOS/PS2 announcement is probably a few months away, at most.
Typo Link: http://www.evila.com/ Hahaha. Thanks, Sony.
Get my free Hitchhiker's Guide Tribute Novella:
How long does it take to develop a system? Now if they want to make something which is 1000 times more powerful than a PS2(which will be very difficult) then it will still take a long time. And as long as it's backwards compatible I don't care that much about when it comes out anyway. From a game developing standpoint it will be difficult to use all the power efficiently but then, as the games look pretty and they have some quality titles I'll probably buy and use it even if it takes a couple of years to harness the power.
Yes there is a reason why it wont happen.
Third parties.
You have to realize that in the big picture MS is going to make a fraction of the total games for the Xbox. Why would all of the other developers just decide to slack off because there are no other consoles? If anything they will strengthen, because they will have all of there development teams working on the same console.
Would that be the number of PS2's they've produced so far?
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
Well, sure, you could even model the universe down to its component quarks if you like. But at some point, you've hit the resolving power of the human eye and the additional 'reality' isn't going to be seen. Your beach example is a good one. Individual grains of sand far away just aren't going to have an effect. When the scene is generated, a single polygon is going to represent a large amount of sand, and the image will be completely realistic. The point the original poster was making that at some certain number of polys, you won't be able to tell the computer-generated version from the real thing. Let's assume an HDTV screen size of 1520x1280, which is about 2,000,000 pixels. At a frame rate of 32fps, 2.4 billion polys/sec would mean 75,000,000 polys/frame, which would give you @38 polys/pixel. I'd be willing to bet that that would be about as realistic as you could want.
If my experience with the PS2 is any indication (buy PS2, realize all the games suck, buy Dreamcast, achieve happiness), I should be a lot more excited about Sega's next console than Sony's. Sony may know how to hype (how the hell did they figure out how to hype the PS3 before anyone has a PS2?), but Sega figured out how to release a good console with great games. Screw the hype-- I'm going with the one I enjoy more.
DreamCast Rocks !!!!!!!!
thats all.
He needs to use his leased Bimmer to seduce the pregnant 17 year old Target cashiers. That's the only legitimate way to score a PS2 (10% employee discount!).
If Microsoft makes a great console then awesome, but I don't think they're going to eliminate Nintendo or Sony out of the market. And dammit, give MS a chance in the console market, I don't think they've really done anything "bad" since talk about the XBox began, if they have, then someone fill me in. I have high hopes for XBox because at least this version seems focused on Games. Hell, there isn't even DVD movie support right out of the box and MS has come out and said that that is NOT the main focus of the XBox. So if they do this right perhaps they'll set the example. I, for one, don't care who it comes from as long as whoever it is sets a good example.
A lot of these things were plan originally for the Playstation 2. It was supposed to have a hard drive built-in (now being added by a third party), ethernet and a remote for the DVD player (now being added by Sony). In addition, it was supposed to used Sony's Memory Stick, not their current memory card (Sony probably realized they needed backward compatibility with the interface to use the old Playstation games -- along with making an extra buck because people will pay anything for memory card [$30 for 128K of original Playstation memory nowadays, anyone?]).
The whole thing, in retrospect, was supposed to be a server for the home. The final product was a lot more toned down.
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-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
What project could you be involved in? Just curious...
47.5% Slashdot Pure(52.5% Corrupt)
This is probably something Gamespot threw together to try to attract some hits on a big topic,it wasn't an official announcement or anything.
Nintendo doesn't even need good hardware to stay competitive, and they proved this countless times.
NES: killed the TurboGraphix 16 before the SNES even came out and held the Genesis at bay.
SNES: held up against the Saturn and Playstation until Nintendo could release the N64. If I recall correctly, Donkey Kong Country 2 sold more units during the 1995 holiday season than all the games for these two systems combined.
N64: It's debatable this system couldn't hold up to the Playstation in the first place, but it's still around, holding its own to the Dreamcast and Playstation 2.
GameBoy: Released in 1989. Currently the only game in town (in the US, at least). Need I say more?
No one makes money on the consoles. When it gets to the point where they can, they drop the price of the console in anticipation of other vendors doing the same. Remember when the SNES and Genesis got all the way down to something like $30 - $40? Instead, all the money is in licensing and selling development tools.
I've seen people poking around the edges, but no one's come out and said this yet...
Is it just me, or is Sony hyping (not building, not yet) a computer rather than a console? The article on GameSpot describes some of the features Sony is reportedly planning to include in the PS3: online shopping, banking and "other Internet services." Whatever happened to the good old days when a gaming console just played games? I'm not griping over change -- it's not necessarily a bad thing to add new features to a console, and the PS2's DVD-playing function was probably a slick move -- but it seems to me that when gaming consoles were just that -- GAMING consoles -- the games were far superior. Sony needs to quit pumping new features into its products until they figure out what to do with the ones they've got. (Nintendo, by the way, has publicly stated that they are planning to make the upcoming GameCube games-only. This is why they have a history of excellent games, and why they rarely make a bad in-house game: they let themselves focus on the games alone.)
As for other insights, most of them have already been stated: The PS2 just came out, so why the hell do we have PS3 hype; the Dreamcast is a superior console; so on so forth. These are all true. Go spend your money on a REAL gaming console.
inigima
As I said in a tread above, SONY made similar announcements in 1995 right after the original Playstation was released. It doesn't mean anything. It's just a cold war arms race with all the other vendors.
Bah, there's hardly anything worth playing on the PS2 yet. It's the old story... Sony's getting greedy and wants the extra cash flow spike from a new gaming console. After all, everyone knows the PS3 will be wildly popular, no matter how rushed - people will buy it to play the newest games. Screw the gamers as usual.
--
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
One of the main contributors to the development of PS3 is a committee from Iraq, who shared their opinions on what they would like to see in the next release of this powerful console. Some of the requested features include self-guiding missiles support, stronger console casing, able to withstand the rugged military life, as well as an Arabic interface.
If you open yourself to the foo, You and foo become one.
Actually, I think I read (or heard) somewhere that Sony lost Crasch Bandicoot to the XBox.
Where's the beef?
To be slightly off topic, why does there have to be a situation of Dreamcast OR PS2?
It has been my observation that if you want a nice console for playing (primarily) arcade ports,
you should get a Dreamcast.
If you want in-depth games (RPG, et al) you should go with the PS1/PS2.
This situation has occurred with my friends and myself.
I like the arcade ports, so I got a DC. They like other game forms, so they got PS2.
If you like both, get both.
Where's the beef?
I hope the Xbox smacks the Playstation 2 down. I don't want the market leader focused on music and movies in their GAMING CONSOLE instead of the games. Sony is going to fuck everything up. At least Microsoft is fully committed to games.
BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE ANY DAMN GAMES THEMSELVES.
Try and find one game SONY made that is good. I would have said the Gameday series, but 2001 for the PS2 is a joke.
So it doesn't matter if they die and go away. All the games will just appear on other consoles, because its just third parties doing the work.
how can saddamm turn them into nukes?
"Ask me about Loom"
'nuff said
There has been a rumour on yahoo finance for some time about BeIA being used in PS3, just rumours of course but it actually makes some sense as being BeIA being the son of BeOS "The Media OS" and the eVilla deal is a hint.
BeOS - free.be.com
Highly unlikely, IMHO. Sand is a good example.
Grains must be modeled with polygon-based models
because as your character gets closer, these
grains will have to be rendered properly. If your
game has a magnifying glass (or curved mirrors)
you'd better have enough polygon count per grain
to make zooms possible. Let's assume you can see
1 km square area, and we'll say land is only
100 m deep, as even strong explosions in real
life are unlikely to go deeper. You then have
~10^18 grains (assuming each grain ~1/2 mm dia.).
We'll assume 100 polygons to be enough to model
a grain. Then you need 10^20 polygons to render
the ground properly. Of course almost all polygons
will be invisible in any given scene, but your
hardware will still have to decide which ones to
render.
To summarize: yes, most complexity will not be
seen by human eye, but no that doesn't enable
realistic rendering. The more realistic you try
to get your game, the more resources you'll have
to dedicate to deciding what to render, so that
actual rendering may not be the limiting factor
but your game will still crawl (on geological
time scale).
Why the heck do people always have to post this when some non-PC architecture gets a thread? I really am curious...
:)
No one ever said that this site was to be unbiased. Thats what makes this site good. They use their judgement to post items that have a general interest in the community. They never said they were a "real" news site. The just post things that count as news for nerds. Not news for the entire world. If you want "real" news go read CNN or the newspaper. And about the Anti-Microsoft "agenda". This site is a site that is based on Linux, Not windows. If they want to promote anti-microsoft they can. They can promote anti-anything if they want to. It's called freedom of speech. If you don't want to hear it go somewhere else.
So the company should just lay off all of its engineers and product developement people until the PS2 is a few years old? Every company is always planning furture product releases. I heard that Microsoft was working on the successor to Windows 2000 before W2K was even in beta.
:)
Also, consumers, developers, and especially shareholders would like to be assured that there is a future in the PlayStation line, and they're not buying into a dead-end technology.
But remember that this is Slashdot, not CNN. It's not as if Sony is announcing this to the world just yet.
Suing Tengen back in the NES days. Forcing NES game developers to be EXCLUSIVE to the NES console, a policy that completely destroyed Sega's Master System
Ok, admitedly this was pretty stupid. But what about Sony and Square... notice how the FF10 release has been delayed to coincide with the gamecube launch? Not to mention that judging by past performance is never good, look at the dreamcast, it is an amazing system... nothing near the failure of the Sega CD/32X
Dropping 1st party software prices on the N64 while charging licensees an arm and a leg.
And Sony and Sega don't? They need to to make money (well perhaps they could be a little cheaper). But look at it this way, a PS2 costs around $400 US to manufacture.
N64's outdated cartridge format.
Once again, this may not have been the best decision, but arguably, they had their reasons. Load time sucks and CDs are a haven for long load times. Another, less noticeable benefit is both the technological and creative envelope the catridge has pushed. Because of its size restrictions developers have had to do amazing in-game cinemas as well as pull off amazing feats of compression (Resident Evil 2 anyone? All the FMV of the PSX version on one dinky ole catridge).
GC's Mini-DVD discs at *one-third* the capacity of normal DVDs.
But wait, one third the capacity is still over a Gig.That's still a lot of space. Not to mention that by using minidiscs they pretty much crush the internet piracy problem... or do you have a proprietary minidisc burner?
Forcing region protection in games so that imports can't be played without modifying your console and voiding the warranty. Others are guilty of this, but Microsoft isn't.
We don't know if microsoft is or isn't. And the sole difference between a N64 US cart and a Jap cart is size, and a system can be easily be made to play imports. Not to mention that i seem to remember playing some super famicon games on my SNES, so really Sony is the guilty party here.
I mean Nintendo is no saint, but neither is Sony or MS or Sega. But lets face it, the gamecube is the only next gen console to do only games.
It is also worth noting that the GC will retail at approximately $200 US, while currently the Xbox is slated to retail for around $400! Also, Nintendo has little choice but to make launch, if they don't they know their screwed.
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Ha. most news sites would take that as a compliment.
--aiee
I meant article.
Heh, funny you should bring that up. I quit that job.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
It could be because I was half drunk, and half stoned, but I remember noticing Tekken Tag is exactly like _every other_ 2P fighiting game since the advent of Street Fighter. I silently sobbed as I watched such a powerful little box go to waste. It plays pr0n DVDs fine, however.
DataSquid.net, a little about me.
The present PS2 can process 20 million polygons per second. One article I read said that to get complete realism (i.e. indistinguishable from film of real live things) you need 2.4 billlion polygons/sec. This would seem to imply that PS3 woud be capable of rendering scenes that were as good as film (actually, almost ten times better. Can a scene be 'better than live'? Interesting question ...). This says to me that the PS3 would have the potential of showing what would amount to movies that were completely artificially generated. Even more, completely interactive, since they'd be created on the fly. This would open up completely new areas of entertainment. Imagine telling your PS3 to replay that scene, but remove Sandra Bullock's clothing this time. Or ... well, you can imagine the possibilities.
"If I have seen further than other men, it is by stepping on their glasses." - Michael Swaine
Exactly, I couldn't agree more Just as one should just have a box running Linux, one running Windows and a Mac... (All paid for preferably)
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
VAPOR will also carry 1,000 times the computational and mechanical ability of Aibo. Sporting highly powerful servomotors which Sony is currently developing, VAPOR will be able to reach peak running speeds of 120 miles per hour and maximum jumping heights of 20 feet, and be capable of a steel-like bite of over 3,000 pounds per square inch. Said one unnamed engineer assigned to the project, "It will surely strike terror into the hearts of burglars and postal workers alike."
In addition, its sleek metallic form will sport enormous computational capability, using a teraflops-scale processor which Sony is planning to begin planning very soon. Furthermore, VAPOR will utilize Autonomous Intelligence (AI) and a special hardware port to connect directly with the planned Playstation 3 to provide little children and hapless twenty-somethings without friends with formidable video game competitors.
Lastly, VAPOR will be able to connect directly to the internet and download songs released by Sony Records in its proprietary ATRAC digital music format and bark along with the lyrics to provide its owners with hours of listening pleasure.
Said Sony Corp's President and CEO, Noboyuki Idei, "We see a convergence in the home security system, attack dog, and home entertainment markets. Leveraging our unique position as a corporate juggernaut, we plan to corner this growing segment of the consumer electronics marketplace."
Science, like Nature, must also be tamed, with a view turned towards its preservation.
As the head honcho of a tech oriented site, why can't you get your hands on a PS2? Do you have no friends at the area Targets and Walmarts? I get offered PS2s practically weekly, but I turn them down. If you want one so bad, use some of your elite Slashdot clout to attain you one. What's the problem?
Microsoft's got the money and guts to stay in it for the long haul
But how are they going to handle competing against someone that they can't just use their OS monopoly to push out of the market? Especially a company with the resources of Sony.
The PS3 is total vapourware beyond any vapourware ever seen before in the console business. I mean the PS2 just came out! And you are critical of Microsoft for hyping their Xbox that's coming out in six months? THE PS3 PROBABLY WON'T BE RELEASED FOR SIX YEARS!! You talking heads at slashdot need to get your heads out of your asses and stop promoting your anti-Microsoft agenda AND JUST REPORT THE NEWS! You guys are worse than CNN.
MrX
on a more on topic note, sony's jumping way ahead of itself here, and not looking before it does so. i've played the ps2, and while i'm somewhat impressed with it's graphics and game play, i'm not at all won over by all the hype. the graphics aren't that great, the sound's mediocre at best, and where's that dvd player? i'm barely more than intrigued by what Xbox has to offer. if it's all it's cracked up to be, then it's gonna be a good console, but let's face it. with all the crap they're cramming into there, it might as well be marketed as a pc with tv-out, no keyboard, and very limited program usage. granted, i like the fact that nvidia is doing the graphics chip, nvidia's a great company that's done a lot in a little time. hell, they helped bring about the demise of former graphics giant 3DFx (Down with GLide!). i'm also happy about the fact that seagate will be providing the hdd's for the box. i work for seagate, company loyalty and all that, unfortunately, our drives are so farkin expensive that i end up buying maxtors. either way, they're good drives. (i've got a Cheetah 36 and a Cheetah 73 sittin here on my desk though, 2 grand in paper weights. *sigh*). from reading what i've found on the sound capabilities, i'm somewhat impressed. there are some amazing things that can (supossedly) be done with DirectSound. i'd like to see Dobly 5.1 though, and a digital output as well. might as well put that expensive HTS to work. now that i'm totally off subject, and obviously anti-microsoft in all it's endeavors...
duh...
because teenagers want to be cool.
adults want to play good games.
--
I am 27 and I don't like NES. I never did though.
:)
However, I recently bought the Genesis3 and some games
http://www.google.com/profiles/malachid
agreed, but it's still hard to beat "HOW HIGH CAN YOU GET(with a monkey on your back)" and "pill-gobbling smileys";)
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
Miyamoto did not do the coding on Donkey kong. Read the book game over by david sheff(sp?) for the history of nintendo. It's a damn good read, btw.
Amber Yuan 2k A.D
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
So what if a PS2 costs $400 to manufacture? I argue that there aren't enough *good games* present to justify even a $150 purchase. Should I just use the PS2 as a nice expensive DVD-Movie player like a majority of the Japanese PS2 owners?
"And Sony and Sega don't? They need to to make money (well perhaps they could be a little cheaper)."
Sega and Sony don't cheat their third-parties like Nintendo does. Period.
"Once again, this may not have been the best decision, but arguably, they had their reasons. Load time sucks and CDs are a haven for long load times. Another, less noticeable benefit is both the technological and creative envelope the catridge has pushed. Because of its size restrictions developers have had to do amazing in-game cinemas as well as pull off amazing feats of compression (Resident Evil 2 anyone? All the FMV of the PSX version on one dinky ole catridge). "
The number one reason for the N64 cartridge format was a combination of control and greed.
"But wait, one third the capacity is still over a Gig.That's still a lot of space. Not to mention that by using minidiscs they pretty much crush the internet piracy problem... or do you have a proprietary minidisc burner?"
We're talking about an *unreleased* next-gen system here. GC's competitors for this year both have *full-sized* DVD support. As for piracy, have you read about the Matsushita version of the GameCube that will include support for *full-size DVDs*? There's a good chance that's going to be a popular item ...
"We don't know if microsoft is or isn't(Game regions). And the sole difference between a N64 US cart and a Jap cart is size, and a system can be easily be made to play imports."
Yes, it is now public knowledge that Microsoft is giving the *developers* the decision of regions as a simple software selection. Re. N64 carts, I modified my Japanese system to play imports ... and *VOIDED* my warranty in the process. A console owner shouldn't have to break out the hacksaw and screwdriver to play foreign games on their console.
"But lets face it, the gamecube is the only next gen console to do only games."
Not true. Xbox AND GameCube are the only next-gen consoles to do *only* games. Anyone who believes otherwise is making up FUD based on their bias against MS.
"It is also worth noting that the GC will retail at approximately $200 US, while currently the Xbox is slated to retail for around $400! Also, Nintendo has little choice but to make launch, if they don't they know their screwed."
Once again, you base opinions on someone's guesses. The simple fact is that public numbers have NOT been given for either console. Re. the Xbox, MS employees have hinted that the price will definitely be below $299. Microsoft can afford to lose money on the system. Remember that this is the company that gave their web browser away for free ...
_Adam Poulos ;
Why is it that certain people aged 15-18 have a trend of disliking nintendo, even calling it "kiddie". Yet people in their 20-somethings love nintendo games as well as other console games.
Vermifax
Vermifax
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In addition, you have to be kidding, these are the people who want WinCE running in your fridge. Microsoft would love to have the all-in-one set top box in every house in america. What company wouldn't.
Finally, your point is a little bit silly. How has the PS2's addition of DVD movie playing ability hurt the game capabilities of the machine? Oh yah it hasn't.
Vermifax
Vermifax
Logout
Here's the Scientific American article referenced in the Gamespot article.
http://www.sciam.com/2000/1100issue/1100stjohn.htm l
Put a little work into your posts guys!
Slashdot trolls are so infatuated with the fact that they can, that they don't stop to think if they should.
You know a system is stillborn when the company is talking about the next system a couple months after it's release.
Sony to world: "THIS time for sure! Our PlayStation 3 will be the greatest invention since the printing press... no, wait, the wheel... no, wait, FIRE! And it's been graciously bestowed upon humanity by your friends at Sony. Hey, third time's a charm, right? Right? ............. Anybody?"
A lone clump of tumbleweed rolls across the scene...
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
That really isn't much of an article. Ok, so there's plans for the Playstation 3 that seem to involve it being able to do everything from downloading music to landing the space shuttle from the privacy of your own home.
Well, yeah. Of course they're going to say that. Like every other company in the world they don't want to look like they've got nothing in the pipe so they come out and announce their newest product, which isn't even really designed yet, will be able to do everything imaginable.
"Hey, don't buy the XBox, in a year or two we'll have a system that can actually categorize your porn for you! None of that tedious self-sorting."
It's nothing. There's no specs, there's no hard information, there's nothing. Not even really worth reading.
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RumorsDaily
I think that THIS is the reason Microsoft wants into the console market. They see future consoles as limited home computers with a tv for a monitor. If they were to ignore it and sony's ps2 took off it could cut into their sales. Now with the X-Box they have the best of both worlds, they still dominate the traditional 'computer' OS market, AND they have a large chunk of both hardware and software sales for the console market. Its a blatant attempt to extend their monopoly and because of something that happended about an hour ago The government wont do anything about it.
--aiee
But how are they going to handle competing against someone that they can't just use their OS monopoly to push out of the market? Especially a company with the resources of Sony.
How about a partnership of Microsoft, NVidia, Intel?
Also, it looks like leveraging their OS is exactly what MS is trying to do. They hope to draw developers with their dominant and available DirectX API.