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DSL Woes
Covad is in the news this week for unplugging ISPs who didn't pay their bills. Covad, in a partly helpful, partly self-serving gesture, has attempted to get disconnected customers hooked up with other ISPs using Covad's service. Oddly enough, the submissions seem to blame Covad - it looks to me like the ISP was the one to blame, taking subscriber payments but not paying off Covad. Covad's financial situation is best described as precarious, with one-third of all its DSL customers not paying - Covad's trying to throw off the dead-weight. So what's the deal with CLEC [?] 's these days? Is there any hope of survival against the incumbent phone companies who will do anything to squash competition?
I would be a bit more critical than Michael. Covad reciently bought BlueStar.net. Covad now competes with DSLnetworks and InternetExpress (among other ISPs). I don't think it's coincidence that they yanked the connections rather abruptly.
Sending email to the end users (not the ISPs that were Covad's customers, but the ISP's customers) reeks of trying to scoop customers for their own partered and owned ISPs.
It all looks rather suspicious to me.
The Doctor What (KF6VNC)
I won't comment on the sign-up drop and sign-up deal (other than to say that would be a gaint pain in the ass for those of us with something else to do). The problem for some of us on this one would be that we would have to keep on OS around that we don't ever use except for the day you have to take off of work to wait on the moron from @home to show up. At least, in this are, they refuse to let you set up the service yourself. They insist that you have to get their technicians to do it for you, and they also insist that you absolutely have to have Microsoft Windows in order to use their service. Now, I can make Linux or FreeBSD work fine with it (at a friend's house, I refuse to support @home myself because of thier absolutely abysmal customer service), but they will literally hang up on you if you try to talk them into letting you use one of those operating systems. In fact, the last time I called in they said, "Linux will not work with our service." I said, "Yes it will, I have a friend using it." They said, "We do not support renegade operating systems. Your friend is in violation of our policy and if we find out who it is his service agreement will be terminated." *CLICK*. Nice pleasant customer service people.
Anyway, even if I had a windows machine ready to go (which I don't at my own home, and I won't install just to get the sometimes up @home service installed) the fact that they need to come and snoop around your system before they will install the service just sucks ass totally. Maybe it's different in other places, but I don't really like the idea of being told I'm too stupid to hook something up to my computer. Maybe some people don't like doing it themselves, but I do.
But maybe I'm just a hard-ass. *SHRUG*
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Face some facts: Number of error free DSL installations when ISP is the same as local Bell carrier : 93% Number of error free DSL installations when ISP differs from local Bell carrier: 16% These numbers are before the FCC right now and investigations are underway into the Bell's attempts to destroy the three major DSL companies. Why do you think Verizon dropped their long distance application in New England?
It's really much more that the hardware and running costs far exceed the $40 a month that DSL companies are charging to make themselves competitive with the shared cable bandwidth. You really can't make money on DSL at the moment, plain and simple. On a personal note, I've been using SpeakEasy, who does pay their Covad bill, and they're GREAT.
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
Caino
Don't touch my .sig there!
Does this really find you a new DSL provider, as in transport layer, or ISP using one of the existing DSL providers like Covad or an existing LEC like the BabyBells?
Changing DSL providers is more difficult than just switching ISPs who're reselling existing DSL infrastructure. Many, many of the ISPs just resell Covad or the existing BabyBell's DSL transport. Colocating DSLAMs in the zillion telco wire centers is a big, expensive infrastructure investment that most "ISPs" can't do or can't do with any real coverage. Your ISP is just a Covad reseller, BTW.
It's kind of like switching long distance carriers -- there's a lot of them, but there aren't that many that actually own the fiber and switching facilities.
I originally heard about this a few months ago as I had some co-location dealings with a company that also sold Covad DSL (Internet Express here in San Diego). My buddy happened to know people there and got kind of an inside scoop.
Here's the gist of it, Covad would go to these local companies and show them how profitable it would be for them to resell DSL accounts. Of course the initial cost of setting everything up is astronomical, but hey the future is bright, don't worry about such things...
Well Covad basically told these resellers not to worry and that everything would be fine, and that they had to purchase these huge contracts that they didn't have enough users to cover - but it would be fine in the long-run.
I don't know if someone at Covad finally realized they weren't going to get paid any time in the near future or if they had this planned all the time - but one day they told everyone, hey you're in debt to us - give us all your subscribers and we'll give you a break on what's due.
And somehow Covad ends up with all these subscribers after having paid out little to nothing or get them... Odd.
The CEO of Internet Express went so far as to issue a press release on this. Pretty tame, I would have been a lot more blunt. Then again, I'll probablly never be a CEO :)
-artistX
Why does a country with a leading role in technology and the global economy have such a hard time deploying and marketing the latest innovations? DSL seems to be the latest in a long line of examples.
Think about it. Television, video tape, transistors and microchips all came to being in the US, and non-US companies seem to grab it and run with it. How many TVs, VCRs and video cameras are actually MADE in the US? Next to none (I think there is maybe ONE picture-tube facility in the US--if they haven't already been shut down). A lot of semiconductor manufacturing occurs in the US, but a relatively HUGE amount occurs in Asia (an earthquake in tiny Taiwan didn't cause RAM prices to jump for nothing).
Now we have DSL. The technology leader here is the US, but communications companies can't get their crap together to provide decent service. Even in Canada (which has even bigger problems exploiting home-grown innovation IMHO) we are doing it better. I've had DSL for over a year--I consistently get 1 to 2 Mbps inbound and nearly that outbound and have had less than ONE DAY of outage (in Alberta). In Ontario, some people are even contemplating switching from the horribly inconsistent Rogers@home cable service to DSL because of server outages. Ironically the problems with Cable internet in Canada have a lot to do with screw-ups by the US-based @Home network.
What is Canada doing different than the US for there to be such a difference? I think the US has to be at least as capable (if not more) to provide the best of the best to it's consumers. If private companies can do it with DSL in Canada (despite its higher taxes and over-regulation which gets in the way sometimes), why can't the US? I've always had the impression that the US was much more free enterprise and that US consumers don't put up with the crap Canadians and others would take.
Of course, the telecommnications industry in Canada was privatised and deregulated in a much different manner than in the US. Does anyone have an insight into how come the telephone companies and DSL ISPs are so screwed up in the US?
There's probably a tap somewhere on your line, or anything else creating 'line noise'. A friend moved the DSL pairs on his netbox to a different pair into his house when he had flakey service and all is good. Try different pairs?
;)
Ok, I responded, now my thoughts:
DSL is awesome- solid performance and great tech. Wait til VoDSL comes out and the DSL users can totally drop their local phone company. Then video-ver-DSL and who needs cable?
The DownSide to DSL is having to go through your local ILEC. I have service with Rhythms directly (not a partner) and the service is kick-ass. I've had it just under two years now, a solid 256k SDSL connection that NEVER under-performs and often gives me 28-30K connections. It is expensive though- $120 a month. But it's worth it cause it goes down so rarely. The past two years, been down a total of 15 days. Pretty good for new tech. AND each time that outage went more than 5 days, they took 30% off my monthly bill, no hassles (though I did have to request it).
Look, this technology is still in its infancy. Cars sucked for a long time before they got to where they are today. Same with most everything else. Just because we live in a fast-paced society doesn't mean everything is gonna work out right from the start. Patience!
DSL will be around for a while, and let's PRAY that at least one other provider remains. Verizon SUCKS for phone service, I'd hate to rely on them for my DSL service more than I already have to. And imagine the support/pricing hell we'll go through if you can only get DSL from your local ILEC!
disclaimer: I own stock in RTHM, cause I really think they've done it right. Of course, it's so in the red...but someday!
Kinda like Moe, but just a little more Kool
Working for an ISP that was in this situation with Covad, let me explain how this is really going:
1) Covad sucks. Bad. Their turn-around-time on trouble tickets is from 3 days to 3 months, sometimes longer.
2) Covad does not know what they are doing as a collective whole. Their ordering department knows more about the install than the high-school dropout they send to do the install.
3) Covad does not want to resolve these issues, and then expects payment.
4) ISPs have been WITHHOLDING PAYMENT until Covad FIXES their problems.
5) Covad disconnects them rather than fix their problems.
6) Covad will file Chapter 11/13 due to this behaviour.
And that is business with Covad. There are few "deadbeat" ISPs but they are NOT the norm. Bills are being suspended because of a customer service problem; nothing more.
Is there any hope of survival against the incumbent phone companies who will do
anything to squash competition?
No. As long as the company that owns the wires also provides service to customers, in the end they will always win because they can control how much their competitors must pay to reach the same customers -- and that's profit, too. Even a home-run success by a CLEC will ultimately just bankroll the ILEC's effort to wipe out the competition.
The only way we will ever see true competition in telephone service (or in electric or gas, for that matter) is to make sure that whoever owns the distribution infrastructure is not also competing to provide service to customers.
And the best way to ensure that the monopoly company that owns the infrastructure doesn't ream everybody is public ownership. For a good example of healthy competition via public infrastructure, consider the shipping business: Private carriers travelling on public highways.
Be carefull. They went for months without billing me, then one day figured it out and dropped a bill for six month's service on me.
The cake is a pie
Before anyone goes ripping on these folks for screwing the end user, keep in mind that they're working to keep the end user hooked up. Of course this is self-serving, but it's their duty as a business. They had 14 DSL providers default on them last year, and they've got another 4 filing for bankruptcy. If they didn't do this, they could face a shareholder lawsuit. As for what DSLnetworks said about it being an attempt to bring in more customers, I would say that it is a perfectly valid effort to bring in PAYING customers. A customer is only a burden if the middle-man doesn't pay up. Sucks that it had to happen, for all involved, but it sound to me like they were well prepared and kept the end user in mind.
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
There is also the curious fact that people who get connections that don't work through Covad are not keen on paying their bills.
I am one of those customers; I have a bill of over $300 for bad service (the service literally has not been up for 24 hours without some sort of problem), and my provider (UUNET) is telling me not to pay it, and is getting me on to Rhythms.
I wouldn't be surprised if Covad still winds up billing UUNET for the "service" they gave me; it's just fortunate that UUNET is a company of exceptional financial strength (which also charges high fees so they can afford to eat them on occasion).
D
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Thats funny, I have a friend who had his Internet service through Flashcom, and Flashcom just recently filed Chapter 11, my friend went to Covads site to investigate on how to get another ISP, however Covads reponse was, "It is Covads policy not to allow customers to switch ISPs while their current ISP is in the process of filing Chapter 11", so he's stuck using a free dialup temporarly...
..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
Anyone who has had people owe them money knows how to spot a deadbeat. Covad knows their customers. I would not be surprised if most of the customers that Covad turned off were just trying to stall with "payment plan" negotiations they mentioned in the article.
If a customer is going to file bankruptcy in a few months, then if you wait to turn them off until then, you'll never see a dime. If you turn them off while they still need the service, then you stand a reasonable chance of collecting *something*. What Covad did is just good sense dealing with bad customers. Deadbeats in translucent-plastic, high-tech decor and stylish casualwear are still deadbeats. Cut 'em off.
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If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, forget 'em, because man, they're gone. -- Jack
No, we need DSL to stay, as an alternative to the other VERY SUCKY technologies currently available.
1. Dialup is just plain useless.
2. Cable is fast becoming a monopoly nightmare - I refuse to have anything to do with Cable companies because of the way they've handled my TV service in the past, obnoxious bundling, etc. that and the shared bandwidth, and security issues crap.
3. Satelite - obnoxiously expensive, high latency.
4. ISDN - astronomically expensive.
DSL CAN be done, cheaply and well. It's probably more of a regulatory problem now, than technical. It is the future of internet access, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, the teeming masses need something like cable. It's gotta be there, and frankly, it's nice that there's something that keeps the DSL people at least attempting to be on their toes. Eventually, this will work out, and we'll have a variety of decent, mature technologies to choose from.
The alternative was the nonsense we used to have, where it used to be cheaper to get a T1 than ISDN, and dialup was the only real alternative for people who weren't independently wealthy. And as I said before, dialup is completely useless. If there's a technology that NEEDS to go away, it's dialup. I can't believe I'm expected to pay $30 a month for the privilege of waiting 30-60 seconds to establish a connection that's slow and unstable as hell. Just fuck that.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
>>These numbers are before the FCC right now and
>>investigations are underway into the Bell's
>>attempts to destroy the three major DSL
>>companies. Why do you think Verizon dropped
>>their long distance application in New England?
I used to work for Verizon (Bell Atlantic at the time). I was team lead for a software project team that implemented one of their gateway systems, i.e. the systems outside organizations - CLECs, whatever - have to call to access the ordering and preordering facilities. I can just about guarantee you that DSL has either marginal or no relationship with why VZ dropped their LD bid in New England.
According to FCC whim, VZ has to pay huge - literally humungous - per day fines if they miss performance penalties on any of a couple dozen possible transactions they support. Those fines are per state. VZ has had serious internal problems meeting those requirements - and not due to anything sinister either, it's just very hard to meet the performance requirements in particular. God knows we all worked our asses off day and night trying to get our systems in shape to get LD in New York. Believe me, most of the folks there *want* to compete - in fact they're quite eager for it. But the requirements change so fast and are so stringent that it has been next to impossible to get it all done. In some cases, the requirements have just capriciously changed with next to no notice. You try meeting dot-com-style deadlines - court-imposed ones, no less - in a Baby-Bell-style bureaucracy. Good luck!
Fortunately for them, those fines I mentioned don't get activated until the day the FCC gives final approval in that state. In some cases, that means that if their LD applications *had* been approved, they'd suddenly be liable for, oh, say a couple million per week in fines, regardless of whether they were actually in business there or not. Needless to say, they've yanked some of the applications. Gee, go figure. DSL does play into that, but it isn't just the provisioning that's the problem; the IT side of it, from where I sat, was even worse.
Incidentally, LD applications are done by state, and "New England" isn't a state, so where are you referring to - Massachusetts, perhaps? VZ already has LD in one New England state, New York; the system I helped develop helped them meet the requirements to get that.
The FCC does not have enforcement authority for DSL! Call your state Utilities Commission!
I've had a NIGHTMARE install here in North Carolina and finally called the FCC, which is how I found out they had no authority. They referred me to the Utilties Commission. Within one day I had an apologetic Verizon representative on the phone, after getting stonewalled for weeks. She called all sorts of people, got me the names of various people responsible for my local CO and followed up with them. FWIW, I still don't have DSL-- the DSL lines in my area are oversold and EVERYONE is waiting for new lines-- including Verizon. But I got the very clear impression that Verizon took complaints to the Utilities Commission very seriously.
Who is RTFM and when will he help me with Unix?
And, no, I don't work for them, but I did find my current DSL provider (CapuNet, which I'm very pleased with) through this method.
Alex Bischoff
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Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
Covad has been planning this for a few months, Last year they had around $179 million in accounts recievable, and over $11 million is uncollectable, I don't blame covad one bit for doing this, and they are trying to make it as painless for the customers involved as possible, kudos to covad, I don't blame them at all, if they had let this continue think about if they went out of buisness and the number of people that would be affected.
iRepairIT - iPhone, Mac, & PC Repair
For over a year I've been receiving free service from flashcom. Occasionally, they would give me a call stating how much I owe, and I continually said, "send me a bill and I'll pay it". They never send me a bill. They do send me newsletters, so they know where I live, and currently, I still have service as if nothing happened. Did I fall through a crack or what? How many others aren't paying a dime for flashcom's service? Is it any wonder they went bankrupt?
'When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.' -HST