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Linux.com Chats with BioWare Regarding "Neverwinter Nights"

Posted by Hemos on from the please-let-me-be-a-beta-tester dept.

I lurked in the recent Linux.com Live! IRC chat with the folks from BioWare (creators of the Baldur's Gate series) regarding their development of Neverwinter Nights. The game looks awesome, and will have a Linux client. Rock. Good discussion, and the perspective of commericial companies on porting is always good.

30 of 90 comments (clear)

  1. Linux gaming by Bad_CRC · · Score: 4
    Is at a critical stage. Please buy as many games for linux as you can or they won't keep making them.

    Tribes 2 will be coming out shortly for Linux, and if we don't support it, other companies will hesitate on making that investment.

    linux tribes

    ________

    1. Re:Linux gaming by gmhowell · · Score: 2

      If it's so critical, they can release the games I want to play, not yet another FPS.

      Hence the reason I broke down and bought a console.

      If they won't make the games I want, why should I 'save' them?

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  2. Dammit! by Wariac · · Score: 5

    Just as I kick one habit (Diablo2, baulders Gate) here they go getting me all stoked for a new game!
    Will D&D forever curse me? In the 70's it got my ass kicked, in the 80's prevented me from getting a girlfriend and in the 90's has caused me to stare at computer screens for endless hours!

    --
    Remember it, write it down, take a picture, I dont give a fsck!
    1. Re:Dammit! by EnderWiggnz · · Score: 2
      sigh... i just regained my life after finally completing Torment ... i gave the CD's away so i wouldnt be tempted to replay it as an evil bastard...

      diablo2 isnt grabbing me the same way... something about mindlessly bashing on the mouse buttons that doesnt do it for me...


      tagline

      --
      ... hi bingo ...
  3. Re:alternate OS's - marketshare of OS is key by Infonaut · · Score: 2
    Unfortunately it just doesn't work from a financial point of view to port games to an OS with a limited user base.

    I've been pining for a port of Battlezone to the Mac for years now, and it will never happen. The Mac has a vast marketshare compared to Be, and the number of games available for the Mac is pathetic if you're a hard-core gamer.

    Thankfully, I'm not a hard-core gamer, so I enjoy Close Combat, Myth, Oni, and a couple of other games on my Mac and am happy.

    It's one of those horrible chicken and egg things, and I do feel sorry for Be users. Maybe the best thing for games on Be would be a serious shareware developer to come out with a game or two that would exploit the power of the BeOS.

    Of course, finding a developer, even of shareware, to do this is the hard part.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
  4. Not entirely a port... by StarTux · · Score: 3

    What is a defination of a port? The non-MS versions will be coming out at the same time, not exactly like they area releasing them six months after the release of the MS version (that is what I define as a port).

    Indeed they mentioned the fact that the Linux version is the one they started on first.

    And hey, what about Creatures? Really gave a good insight into the fact that developers would like to make software for other platforms, but they need to convince the publishers that its worthwhile.

    So, please if you are interested in splicing genes on artifical life, go to www.learningcompany.com and mail them asking for a Linux version. Get enough and they will publish. Its already pretty much made...

    1. Re:Not entirely a port... by keesh · · Score: 2

      They aren't doing a port, they used that word because it's more (l)user friendly... It appears they're using a common codebase with all OS-specific stuff in separate libraries, so they just compile with a directive or whatever...

      Doing it this way, they don't really need to even convince the publishers. If they give the publishers a finished Win32 version and say "oh, by the way, here's a Linux version as well" they'd be stupid not to take it. Sure, they'd probably have a smaller initial distribution, but when they see it selling they'll print (don't know the real word, burn seems wrong) a load more...

  5. Except BioWare didn't do Torment by Necromncr · · Score: 4

    Planescape: Torment was not a product of BioWare, it just used the Infinity Engine that was originally used in Baldur's Gate. Planescape:Torment was from Black Isle Software, the same people who brought you Fallout and Fallout 2.

  6. Games Push the Desktop by jmu1 · · Score: 3

    I don't know about you guys, but I remember back in the day(joke) that the only reason I upgraded my 386 was so I could stop playing Wolfenstien and move on up to the world of Doom. After that, I moved up to a 486 so I could play DoomII and so I could play Falcon 2.0. It seems pretty obvious to me that the most important thing for those out there who want GNU/Linux to be a true contender for the desktop to do is to pour loads of resources into getting the top games onto the platform. Not just that, but to have competitive prices and simultaneous release dates. Get them out to Best Buy, Wal-Mart etc. Not just distributing the titles via stores that quite frankly, aren't all that widespread. If you want to appease the masses, you have to get to them. No one is going to come. You have to go. I look forward to playing this on my GNU/Linux box, and on my roomate's Windows box. Fact is, although we may not like what is out there, we have to live with the fact that it is not going to go away easily. We also need to stop biting our nails whenever some exec spouts off. We need to start coding and stop whining. Those who can't code, run PR for us, beta test for us, write documentation for us! Have fun etc... Remember, you can change the world by yourself, but you can't make it livable alone.

  7. they ARE porting to BeOS - RTFChat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    11:43.55 NWN is going to Windows, Linux, Beos and Mac

    ---
    Of course I suppose you can't compete for first post if you actually read the links that were posted with the article.

  8. I would love to...But. by DAldredge · · Score: 2

    I would love to buy more Linux games but Loki has stopped shipping new games and has yet to ship SMAC and Mindrover...

  9. Linux's split personality? by Christopher+Bibbs · · Score: 3

    I wish I could get excited over a new game on Linux, but that's why I have an N64. For the rare PC game that is worthwhile, I have a Windows box.

    Do many people actually use a Linux box as their sole gaming platform? Am I a freak for using my Linux boxes as servers and development platforms?

    1. Re:Linux's split personality? by SquadBoy · · Score: 2

      Because I would rather not have to deal with Windows just to play a game. That and since I seem to be a very typical GNU/Linux geek the games that come out tend to be the ones I want to play. A box is whatever you use it for. Here at work they are servers and the one on my desktop (finally got permission to do it) is used to do my job. At home one of the thing I do with my desktop machine is game and I would rather not own a m$ product thank you.

      --

      Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
  10. This is good by alexhmit01 · · Score: 2

    The most important part of multi-platform development, as this showed, was it catches programming errors. The errors that show up on ports are the same errors that show up on weird drivers, etc.

    Yes, Linux gaming is good. Mac gaming is good. Anything that fights MS monopoly power is good.

    Whether you like Windows or not, MS Monopoly power SUCKS.

  11. Re:How did they do it so quickly ? by _xeno_ · · Score: 2

    Since NT3.51 and Win95OSR2, Windows has had OpenGL support with every OS. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that they were simply using OpenGL. Quake3 was written for OpenGL. Just because DirectX is on Windows doesn't mean they used it.

    --
    You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
  12. It's the UNIX philosophy... by tuffy · · Score: 3
    ...the right tool for the right job. My Linux box is for work with the occasional xmame session on the side. But when I want to enjoy a bit more in the way of gaming, I fire up the old Dreamcast and indulge. Consoles are cheaper than good 3D accelerator cards, trivial to set up and require no real maintanence (okay, those last two are a lot like Linux too, but you get the idea).

    I wouldn't edit text with the Gimp, and I don't use a machine whose primary imput devices are mice and keyboards as my main gaming platform. Again, it's all about the right tool for the right job...

    --

    Ita erat quando hic adveni.

    1. Re:It's the UNIX philosophy... by Hard_Code · · Score: 2

      I don't know...I (and about everybody else on earth) play FPSs with a mouse...but back in the day I somehow managed to play Wolf3D and Doom without a mouse, just using arrow keys. There is no way I can do that these days...

      --

      It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
  13. A Good Cross-Platform Framework by goingware · · Score: 4
    If a company wants to develop software that will run on both Windows and Linux (and Mac OS and BeOS too), one application framework they can use is the ZooLib cross-platform application framework.

    There's still some work it needs for complete Linux support as you can read here but it's a lot less than developing your own framework.

    ZooLib requires very little in the way of system graphics support so it wouldn't be too hard to port it to the framebuffer if you prefer doing that to running your game under X.

    Because ZooLib uses the MIT License (also known as the X11 License) it is appropriate for use in both proprietary and Free Software programs.

    If ZooLib doesn't suit your needs, have a look at the GUI Toolkit, Framework page.


    Mike

    --
    -- Could you use my software consulting serv
    1. Re:A Good Cross-Platform Framework by scrytch · · Score: 2

      This better be one hell of a Hello World application.

      I mean, all this:

      this->SetBackInks(ZUIAttributeFactory::sGet()-& gt;GetInk_WindowBackground_Dialog(), new ZUIInk_Fixed(ZRGBColor::sYellow));

      Just to set the background color?

      --

      --
      I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
  14. Persistent Worlds by bughunter · · Score: 5
    This may not be apparent from the PR and buzz that you've been exposed to, but a lot of us are planning on creating Persistent Worlds using NWN. Of course, NWN servers won't support the huge populations that, ahem, grace such institutions as EverQuest and Asheron's Call. But then, we see that as an advantage: smaller populations make it easier to weed out the munchkins, twinks and d00ds, and thus "make the world safe for real roleplayers."

    And at this point, I'd like to plug the project I enjoy being a member of, Neverwinter Nights Online. NWNO is devoted to reproducing the Forgotten Realms' forest nation of Cormyr on a dedicated 24/7/365 NWN server with a T1 link. A lot of other projects plan to use a network of volunteers with DSL and cable to run world "modules" that will be linked via "portals." While we at NWNO applaud and cooperate with all persistent world efforts, the senior DM (and server owner) decided that this approach is subject to too many avenues for abuse, inconsistency, and preferred more control over the platform... and the environment. We hope to retake the definition of Roleplaying from EQ, AC and the other munchkinlands, and restore its original meaning.

    --
    I can see the fnords!
  15. Paper covers rock. by shuffler · · Score: 2
    The game looks awesome, and will have a Linux client. Rock.
    The Win32 client, Paper, is obviously superior to Rock in head-to-head comparisons. I believe the BeOS client is to be called Scissors.
  16. Linux sales figures by Greyfox · · Score: 2
    I didn't buy Quake (1 or 2) until the Linux binaries came out for them (I don't have Windows on my system at all.) I got Unreal Tournament after the binaries came out but before Loki took it up. Gotta wonder how many extra units were sold to Linux people and not counted as such.

    Ultima Online had a Linux client for a while but after they dropped ongoing support for it I dropped them.

    I'll buy NWN when it comes out specifically because they have Linux support. I'd buy Creatures 3, too, if I could get the Linux binary. Chances are in either of those cases it wouldn't be counted as a Linux sale (I always make a point of sending the product registration cards in, though.)

    Of course, I have a PlayStation and will probably buy a PS2 at some point here, since for the most part the Linux gaming scene sucks.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  17. Re:How did they do it so quickly ? by ksecrist · · Score: 2

    You're right... it's all OpenGL.
    Learn more @ www.neverwinternights.com

  18. THEY ARE by rppp01 · · Score: 3
    From their site

    Will there be a Mac/Linux/BeOs version? We are planning a simultaneous PC / Macintosh / Linux release for Neverwinter, with all three versions to be included in a single box. BeOS users will be happy to know that we are also developing a BeOS version in parallel to our other platforms. It's been going very smoothly so far and, if all goes well, we hope to include it as part of our standard release. On the PC, Neverwinter Nights will run under Win95/98, as well as NT 4 (using service pack 6), which is our favored development OS at present. The game also works quite well on Windows 2000 and we hope to continue support up to release.

    --
    They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
  19. Try Hello World in XLib by goingware · · Score: 2
    Yes, it is complicated to do something very, very simple in ZooLib.

    But it is much, much easier to do something complex in ZooLib than many other means that might be available.

    And yes, you can probably set the background color much quicker by programming to the native API of your OS, but then you wouldn't have a cross-platform app, and to ship one, you'd have to port and maintain multiple parallel codebases.

    The learning curve pays off the larger the application you write.


    Mike

    --
    -- Could you use my software consulting serv
  20. ZooLib and SDL are complementary, not competitors by goingware · · Score: 2
    ZooLib and SDL appear to be different cross-platform frameworks.

    One would do very well to use them together in an application, and now that you've been so helpful as to tell me about SDL, I'll investigate how we might do a ZooLib/SDL integration.

    ZooLib is for doing the following in a platform-independent way from C++:

    • threads with various kinds of mutexes, reader/writer locks and so on
    • thread-safe reference counted smart pointers
    • Simple vector graphics
    • fonts and text
    • creating and using various kinds of windows (but not what the X folks refer to as "window management - dragging and so on)
    • platform-appropriate graphical user interface widget creation, drawing, input and layout
    • TCP networking
    • single-file databases (the databases, being entirely contained in single files, can be used as user documents, so the user could double-click on on a desktop to open it in an editor after receiving it via email).
    • streams and filters, conceptually like C++'s iostreams, but more appropriate for binary data formats
    • Debugging memory allocator and debugging support through widespread use of assertions
    Ah, but one thing it's completely lacking is any support whatsoever for multimedia! That's because the original developers primarily targeted Mac OS and Windows, for which the cross-platform QuickTime API was readily available, but not open source.

    Now don't fault me if I leave something out, because I only just now found out about SDL, but lets see what SDL says it has:

    • Simple, portable direct access to the graphics framebuffer, audio device, mouse and keyboard
    • Support for OpenGL (the actual GL support must come from a separate library, many of which are available)
    There's probably more but it's not readily apparent from the page.

    What I'd suggest you do in writing a game is use ZooLib for the overall GUI and threading support, and have a pane in the middle of the screen where your main action takes place. In that pane you do direct-to-screen drawing with SDL and if you're doing fancy 3D, consider using OpenGL. Use SDL for your sound.

    Again, thank you for bringing this to my attention.


    Mike

    --
    -- Could you use my software consulting serv
  21. Linux port? by mr · · Score: 2

    Providing commerical support for "Linux"....do people mean:

    1) RedHat
    2) RedHat/Debian/whatever is determined to be a 'popular' version of Linux
    3) Or support for SCO/UnixWare/BSD/Solaris X86/QNX that can run 'Linux ELF' binaries? (I don't know how good some of them are, but FreeBSD runs the Linux version of quake FASTER than Linux does, according to the tests done by the duke of URL)

    Loki is the only vendor to date I am aware of who has said "Yes we will support our Linux games on BSD". Hopefully the BioWare staff will see the wisdom in capturing the (almost) entire X86 based unix market by supporting a Linux ELF format that will run using the facilites added to SCO/UnixWAre/BSD/Solaris x86/QNX.

    --
    If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
  22. Yes, it's him. by CrusadeR · · Score: 2

    Yes, it's that Bad_CRC. He also runs a Linux Tribes site @ http://www.tribalwar.com/linuxtribes/.

    --
    :wq
  23. Re:ZooLib and SDL are complementary, not competito by StandardDeviant · · Score: 2

    Minor sidenote: their are a goodly number of addon libs associated with SDL that address some of the things you say zoolib offers. (image and movie file formats, networking, fonts, etc. etc.). This is not to knock zoolib (about which I know basically zip), I'm just pointing it out for the sake of completeness.


    --
    News for geeks in Austin: www.geekaustin.org
    --

    News for Geeks in Austin, TX
  24. Good Cross-Platform Multiplay by frankie · · Score: 2

    I'm just happy Bioware threw out DirectX, and specifically DirectPlay.

    11:26.13 BioDon Yes, DirectX locks you to Windows. Early on we prevented that problem.
    11:26.25 Briareos No DirectPlay then?
    11:26.41 BioDon No, we are using the standard socket library.

    Writing their own network code from scratch seems overkill though. Perhaps they should look at OpenPlay .