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eFront From Inside
Gridle writes: "In short, eFront was a company which bought out successful websites and turned them into cash cows by maximizing profit through different ways of banner and other advertising. Not a bad idea, except that their methods aren't exactly pretty ones. A disgruntled employee obtained some crucial ICQ logs (mirror), which show the true spirit behind eFront. It includes cheating on banner companies, cheating on top100 sites, talking about raping a female webmaster because she doesn't agree on some points, tax evasion, delaying payment to webmasters, literally harrassing sites out of existance and all kinds of other nasty stuff. Somebody put together a summary about how it concerns the emulation scene. Also notice OverClocked's comic about it and Tim Eckel's previous ventures against the emulation community, and Penny Arcade. And it's all over the place already. FuckedCompany, SomethingAwful, Lum the Mad (and their forums), Get High Forums, mame.dk support pages and Retrogames' General and Current Affairs boards. Somebody even found that their CEO has earlier been convicted."
I've worked for eFront less than two weeks. I started working for them so I could make sure their hosted sites would start getting paid again, and I could stand up for the webmasters (since it didn't seem like anybody was standing up for them). It is in my interests to do so, as I'm a webmaster myself and I don't like getting screwed by the people who host me. Perhaps you should take some reading comprehension classes (since you're still in college). I never whined about "not being able to my [my] website fulltime", I whined about how the ad market is shit and how advertisers fail to understand basic online advertising concepts.
Libel
/. not a party to libel if the allegations prove untrue?
How is
You can't be liable for libel unless it can be proven that you knew what you were saying was false.
Rate me on Picture-rate.com
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
sam 04/03/20 9:40 am we should redirect it to goatsc.cx or whatever
Sam must read Slashdot.
Maybe in the UK, but not here in the US, in order to be gulty of libel, you need to know that what you are saying false. In order to be convicted, it needs to be proven that you knew it. If slashot dosn't already know wether or not these are valid, they arn't betting anything
Rate me on Picture-rate.com
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Re:They are not inadmissable (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10,@07:44PM EST (#209)
I was the first person to get the logs from the hacker (kebie) I have no idea what any of that mumbo jumbo means, especialy because I live in Canada. I originaly gave the logs out to webmasters, because I was so pissed off, #1 I hadnt been paid in 5months, and #2 my net was getting cut off.. Plus efront was trying to blackmail us into new contracts.. they wouldn't give backpay till we signed these new crazy contracts that gave us no rights at all.. Me being the webmaster who was owed next to no money ($421), took it upon myself to release the logs. If any of the other webmasters did they would liable to lose $30,000+ and their sites. The logs had only been through 1 person before me, from what I know.
Ask CheshireCat instead of me, sounds like he has it together a lot better than I do, but I say they need to take it to their solicitors, you too if you haven't already. It sounds and reads like the people involved with this company do have a valid case.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
See the movie 'The Insider' . . . there are some cases where non-disclosure agreements and privacy run against the public good and a whistle-blower is not only justified, but REQUIRED. Also, check out ICQ's own documentation on the privacy of their system, essentially implying ICQ is a public forum and not guaranteeing any strong degree of security. Hopefully, that answers your questions.
So straight women just want to have sex with woman? Is that what she told you? And you believed it?
No wonder you're home Saturday evening posting on /.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
A few months ago, eFront contacted me about buying my website, in exchange for some crazy stock option plan. I'm not a lawyer, but even I could see how out of whack their contract was. I mean, give them ALL rights and ownership to the site in exchange for stock that has no value, and has no real prospect of ever having any value?
But, I suppose enough people are just interested in the prospect of making phat cash that they'll sign anything stuck in front of their face. These people getting screwed over by eFront are getting screwed over because they leapt into it with a lot of unfounded faith. Someone once said (I think it was George Carlin), "Businessmen go into meetings thinking the other guy is going to fuck them over, so they race to fuck the other guy over first."
This type of thing happens in boardrooms all across the country, every day. It really isn't surprising that eFront is conspiring to screw their webmasters over, what is surprising is that they were stupid enough to do it over ICQ.
NO CARRIER
to shoot ourselves in the foot.. evaluating
them on a one by one basis
like themeheaven has a 24x7 banner next to
ours.. well u know his payment will be delayed
Andy@home 18/01/20 2:59 pm Do you know how to print and ICQ log / History - I want to remind myself of some of the issues we discussed, so that I don't miss anything
sam 18/01/20 2:59 pm history->saveas->notepad savedfile.txt->print
I have a shotgun, a shovel and 30 acres behind the barn.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
"I don't mean to sound harsh, but I really can't see anything but greed as a motivation for the sites that have been hit by this; that and a sense of entitlement thwarted. I mean, I love PA, I really do, but I could host it on my (pretty modest) salary, in my spare time. What entitles someone to it as their job?" When did it become bad form for an artist to get paid for the work he does? I have seen this same vibe from people before and I don't understand it. Why is the web different. You would never suggest to a person who runs their own flower shop that they just do it as a hobby. That person loves flowers and they have worked hard to make a living out of it. But as soon as someones passion leads them to the internet the value of their work seems to depreciate. I wonder, if PA ran in his Sunday paper would he still suggest that I just do it in my spare time? What entitles baseball players to play fucking baseball as their job? They play a game! I just get this vibe a lot from people and it makes no sense to me. Any answeres would be much appreciated.
They also posted the interpretation of the link. I suspect you are probably correct though that intent could not be proven.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
The reason that a company can get away with this stuff, even for a little while, is because there's no community of webmasters/website owners. In the world or pornsites, if somebody does something shady, everybody knows abot it right away, and that person is usually blacklisted and forced out of business.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
ICQ History Log For:
12345678 SchmuckBoy
Started on Tue April 32 25:43:47 2004
SchmuckBoy 04/32/04 02:43:47 nm Did you read on
leetkid 04/32/04 02:44:48 nm No, was it 'leet?
SchmuckBoy 04/32/04 02:49:03 nm It took me a few days to write them all, but
leetkid 04/32/04 02:50:04 nm Sec, viewing them
SchmuckBoy 04/32/04 02:54:28 nm Sure I did. The people at Slashdot are not journalists so they did not bother to verify the facts, and I get away with smearing lameass publically, harming him and his reputation, and
leetkid 04/32/04 02:56:19 nm You ARE the 'leetest one of all!
SchmuckBoy 04/32/04 02:58:43 nm I wouldn't be without the help of
Exactly why should anyone trust logs posted to a web site? Especially when someone's reputation is involved? How is
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
I put up another mirror (with all the logs in one big zip) at http://members.nbci.com/mduell52/chatlog.zip.delet ethis (3.00MB). Of course, you have to delete the deletethis extension, because NBCi doesnt allow zips :(
Mark Duell
And what, exactly, is "the homosexual lifestyle" ?
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Kristy 02/03/20 1:23 pm
:P
:P
by the way.. you have open file sharing on your computer on
Kristy 02/03/20 1:23 pm
which means someone can delete your hd
Kristy 02/03/20 1:23 pm
at anytime..
Kristy 02/03/20 1:23 pm
you might want to change that
Kristy 02/03/20 1:27 pm
but im not supposed to tell you
Kristy 02/03/20 1:27 pm
so dont tell anyone
Everyone else so TOTALLY forgot to get your take on vocabulary!
OK, so when you say "that's so gay" you don't mean it in a negative way connoting unnaceptable, wrong, innapropriate; you just mean it in a nice, affirming, we're-all-in-this-together kinda way. Oh yeah, I can really see where you're coming from on this.
How could everyone else have so grossly misunderstood you?
So please, when I note that you're an ignorant clueless twit who simply thinks everyone else should forgive him for his offensive comments understand that I don't really mean those things and of course you should have no reason to be offended ('cause like, they shouldn't really bother anyone 'cause *I* don't see how they would) well, you'll understand.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Yes, I have -- but less than 10 bucks. Assuming they keep their donation system up and running, I plan to donate about 25 dollars a year. I'd give it all at once (better for them) but I like the idea I can stop donating if I find the site starts sucking for some reason :-).
Not representing or approved by my company or anybody else.
How on earth can you do business (and the ICQ log makes the excellent point that, once you bring money into the equation, it's no longer a hobby) - do business with another company and not know that their CEO has been convicted of fraud? Where's the due dilligence? ``What other companies are you working with? Can I talk to someone at some of your other affiliate sites?''
How can someone host a site like mame.dk or somethingawful.com as anything but a hobby in their spare time? Pud seems to do just fine running FC that way (and appropriately makes fun of big companies that require 50 people to do the same thing). This isn't a troll - at least 50% of those reading this should know how easy it is to run a dynamic web site, and even to host it cheaply. But $24,000 a month!?
If you're going to accept ad revenue as the way you pay rent, it seems like you need to be up on the ad industry and know what the CPM trends are. It also seems like you'd want a pretty good contract with your ad provider, so they can't just drop you if it's not working out. Especially after April, 2000.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I really can't see anything but greed as a motivation for the sites that have been hit by this; that and a sense of entitlement thwarted. I mean, I love PA, I really do, but I could host it on my (pretty modest) salary, in my spare time. What entitles someone to it as their job?
-1, Flamebait I guess... though I really think these are important issues.
> took it upon myself to release the logs
Thanks for that. It would have been more fun/efficient if you released the logs slowly ("And tomorrow, as a guest star, lowtax, from SA fame...")
Anyway, it is always nice when shit hits the fan that way...
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
For a change, would you please read the links too? Who the hell would invest two months of constant typing to create 12 MB of forged logs with authentic information, passwords, people, phone numbers et cetera, and what for?
I have no reason to suspect the logs aren't real. Draw your own conclusions though.
Also, ICQ's license agreement pretty much states that since they can't guarantee privacy, it's essentially a public forum. I guess eFront just fucked themselves.
About the rape quote, grep rape from iBLAMEj00.txt. You'll find it easily. Perhaps it wasn't said with any intention to do it, but it still sticks at people's eyes and would be pretty much an open and shot case for this female webmaster's lawyers.
But also mentioned is his pager email address, right here -> 7142275975@mobile.att.net
Someone else (loraksus post #90) posted it but I think everyone should get a chance to tell him how they feel.
This Wiki Feeds You TV and Anime - vidwiki.org
Remember - you heard it here first - your 100% accurate guide to spotting practicioners of "the homosexual lifestyle."
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
If you ask me which is more likely: that a company with a bad reputation is actually a sleazeball operation, or someone sat down forged megabytes of ascii text icq logs, I'll go with the sleazeball. It's occams razor, plain and simple. Hell, it would be less effort to forge a .jpg of Ted Eckel shooting heroin in a crack house than write all this.
If you want clear and incontrovertible proof, you're going to have to develop some kind of clairsentient abilities, because all evidence can be forged at some level.
Actualy... * It's not signed by a person (but was sent by email? what was the email address in the relevant headers?) A lawyer would sign his/her name. or perhaps the current efront legal dept. consists of Sam in his boxers and a google search for cease and desist letters.
I've read some of the excerpted logs, and that actualy isn't to far from the truth. One of the guys on ICQ, I think it was bryant or tim actualy did a search and found a sample C&D to send to the PA guys "fill in the relevent details, and put out lawers name on it."
These guys acted like children.
Rate me on Picture-rate.com
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Its clear from the logs that Efront are in some financial difficulty, it could be ironic that all this attention could give them the visitors to their sites to achieve their targets and make some money. However, according to those in the know they wont get nearly enough to save them, definetly not enough to clear the backpay. Those in the know are awaiting an investigation by the SEC for illegal trade of securities, though they seem more concerned with tying to keep the lid on it as this letter at Fucked Company shows.
First, check out: http://www.fuckedcompany.com/extras/efront_letter
As you can see, eFront's "legal department" is sending out cease and desist letters to anyone who is hosting or linking to the ICQ logs. Wonder if Slashdot will be hit by one?
If you have read the logs, you'll know that in a previous situation, eFront simply copied a cease and desist template off a web page to send. Look's like they've done it here as well.
I like this comment made by bored2 on Pud's website. He says:
regarding the letter:
* It's not signed by a person (but was sent by email? what was the email address in the relevant headers?) A lawyer would sign his/her name. or perhaps the current efront legal dept. consists of Sam in his boxers and a google search for cease and desist letters.
* It starts: "We are contacting you on behalf of eFront Media ("Company")." Umm, but I thought this letter was from eFront? Sam is obviously using a letter from a law firm writing on behalf of a client w/o having changed the relevant parts of the letter.
* "The unauthorized break-in and continued distribution and dissemination of this data violates the Federal wiretapping ***statues***."
With no citation to the relevant "statues".
* "The FBI office of Orange County is currently investigating"
There is a LA and San Diego division offices of the FBI; there is no office called the "Orange County Office." See: http://losangeles.fbi.gov/contact/fo/la/territory
The rest of the letter is just crap, especially: "In addition, we are requesting that you shut down the entire forum for Efront, due to the criminal investigation and the illegal actions that have been conducted with the reading and gathering of such materials."
What is that last clause supposed to mean?
How pathetic.
I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about. In a civil action, people don't "file charges." Only a government prosecutor can "file charges"--or more accurately seek an indictment by grand jury or by information with a preliminary hearing in front of a magistrate. Your points might apply if you were talking about ethical violations relating to prejudicial pretrial pubilicity by the government (state prosecutors or Fed. Assistant U.S. Attorneys). Similarly, innocent until proven guilty is a criminal concept; civil plaintiffs have the burden of proof/pursuasion (with a "more likely than not" standard).
Re. defamation, remember that truth is a defense. Stated another way, you can only defame someone with false statements. Second, some matters of public interest are covered by a qualified, constitutional privilige established by the Spreme Court in New York Times v. Sullivan. With a public figure or matter of public controversy, a plaintiff must often prove "actual malice," meaning not "spite or ill will" but that the defendant had "knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard for truth," but nevertheless published the statement(s). However, if the plaintiff is a private person and has not injected him/herself into a public controversy, then the plaintiff only needs to prove that the defendant was negligent in publishing the defamatory material.
With a private person & private controversy, usually negligence means falling below what a reasonable person or reasonable publisher would have done under the same circumstances.
There are other torts that might apply, however, like invasion of privacy.
One interesting question is whether obtaining the logs violated the Electronic Communications Protection Act (ECPA), 18 U.S.C. 2510 et seq.
Re. admissibility, pre-publication or not keeping something a secret has no bearing. All relevant evidence not otherwise inadmissible comes in. "Relevant" usually means "having any tendency to make the existence of any fact that is of consequence to the determination of the action more probable or less probable". An easy standard. Some possible grounds for inadmissibility:
In all, electronic records are viewed by the majority of courts to be no better and no worse than any other kind of evidence.
---
In a hundred-mile march,
really, I would love to see you spend a couple of days typing up everything in there. Especially when there are real cell phone numbers, icq numbers, and root passwords, and logs that can be verified by all the other parties involved
Here is a picture so you can match a face with the story.2 0.htm
http://207.153.207.173/visittoefront/pages/DCP_03
I've been following this since yesterday, here are some relevant links & funny facts:
t =h ttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.hebus.com%2Findex.html&lp=fr_en
? ne wsID=9082447374
. co m/management.php+efront+management&hl=en
FULL logs:
http://www.retardmagnet.com/whoops/
http://www.sunpoint.net/~blametim/blame.xhtml
Misc. logs & non-log information:
http://members.tripod.com/smajain/
http://babel.altavista.com/translate.dyn?urltex
Fuckedcompany broke the story at:
http://www.fuckedcompany.com/comments/index.cfm
There are 18 pages of commentary @ Fuckedcompany, some commentary is rather humorous - phone numbers for employees and the answering machine messages that say "I no longer work here, call Sam Jain", highlights from some of the logs, and misc. images from the web.
If you go to http://www.efront.com, and then go to their "About Us" section, every link works.. except the Management link, most likely removed to prevent them from being spammed or contacted by news media. Of course, you can still get the information, because they didn't take down the German version of that page. Just click on the German flag.
I suppose their site *would* have to be up for this to work, though.
Thank goodness for GoogleCache!
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.efront
Also funny is that Sam Jain's cell phone (the number of which you can find in the logs) is "at the customer's request, no longer accepting incoming calls".
That's all, folks
stil
The "in short" version seems a little too short, for those of us who have never heard of eFront. And the log files are many, many times the length of War and Peace. So I apologize for not having read the entire "article" before commenting. But the charges seem a little stupid to me...buying web sites to make more money back is not a crime! Do the log files actually state doing something illegal, or is this just whimpering from eFront's competitors?
The "summary" link above is vaguely written, with nothing clearly stated to be illegal. It's more like it's written to *sound* illegal. "Screw the affiliates by lowering the CPM from $3 to $.75"...does that mean in actual breach of contract, or does it mean renegotiate the monthly pay rate? There's a big difference! Ad rates change all the time.
Bragging about "tricking" people into clicking ads (in the summary link), sorry, that sucks, but within certain bounds, that's part of web advertising today. You see tricky banners on CNN and most other major web sites too, like "click the monkey to win" and so on.
Bragging about "pop-ups and how he can do whatever he wants to his visitors," again, if this is just a gripe about unsolicited pop-up ads, they suck, but have become mainstream practice these days. I'd say most of the major media web sites I visit pop up ad consoles at different times.
"He frequently berates his visitors, at one point calling them 'sheep', He brags about his own 'leetness.'" Yadda yadda yadda. I'm sorry, if the whole issue is that this guy is a ruthless profit-seeker you wouldn't want to be friends with, it just seems like a lot of personal griping. Okay, maybe he's an asshole, but so what?
Again, I haven't read the 15 megabytes of log files, so I'm not saying for sure this is just a lot of name-calling, but if there are specific allegations of fraud, it would be interesting to have them summarized with more details and credibility than the "summary" link in the initial posting.
I'm pretty disgusted that Slashdot is posting this story as well for a number of reasons,
1) Slashdot basically just linked this guys entire ICQ conversations with everyone for the past year. 90% of this stuff is irrelivant. So much for being pro-privacy, huh?
2) Slashdot seems to be getting involved in a petty fight between a couple of emulation sites, who cares? How is this "News for News" or "Stuff that matters"? It's petty bullshit.
3) The heavy slant in the story
Michael, how would you like it if the log from every chat converastion you've ever had was posted to the web, including private business conversations (names, phone numbers, fianance numbers are discussed) and off color jokes you've made (raping someone? i'm sure we've all said worse when we're under the pretense that we're talking privately among friends).
A story like this has no place on slashdot. I'm disgusted and lost what was left of my respect for this place.
What's with the games icon on this story?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Tim's flame on Penny Arcade's forums (long long thread)
r. ghaffari
(25/M/Baltimore, MD)
Wow, seriously dangerous waters you guys at /. are venturing into.
/. get embroiled in the very things it purports to be rallying the community against ...
It could be argued, pretty easily, that this article is a competitive swipe against EFront, who seem to have a relatively similar business strategy to another "Buy-And-Milk" company, your very own Andover Networks.
I hope this doesn't cause more fuss than it should. Be stupid to see
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Wouldn't I love to know. I submitted it as 'news'.
ping arcade.com.tw
ping www.arcade.com.tw
ping www.arcadeathome.com
ping arcadeathome.efront.com
Spot the difference.
Yes, folks, Tim is hosting the roms at his own site, not in Taiwan.
I just wrote a node on everything2.com so check it out and contribute to the lashing.
This Wiki Feeds You TV and Anime - vidwiki.org
I don't know anything about this guy, and don't much give a shit. The fact that many of the people involved in game emulation (or vid gaming in general) are pathetic 15-year olds trapped in flabby 30something bodies is not a revelation (does gut check...lookin' good!).
/. link to point to something other than a couple of pipsqueaks in a flame war that lacks even good namecalling.
What really dismayed me was the bit at the end of that linked-to diatribe where some guy named "Gene" proves himself the owner of an equal number of mindzits by taking it out on this Timmah guy's wife, fer chrissakes. WTF did she do? If this guy is as bad as he sounds, doesn't she have enough problems being married to him? There might be validity in the previous paragraphs, but it's completely thrown away by that last crack.
Honestly, the idea that you can insult someone by saying "oh yeah, your wife's ugly" is even lower than using "gay" as a pejorative. She's not a collectible, you dumb fuck, and she appears to have nothing to do with this pathetic tempest in a teapot. It'd be nice if we could go back to expecting a
Well, I will be the first to admit that I haven't read some of the articles, so I have no idea how the logs were acquired, but based on what I know so far, the answer would be no.
Why, you ask? It's quite simple: I take the attitude that anything transmitted via ICQ and logged is no longer private. AFAIK, ICQ themselves take that attitude. It's like when people complain about me posting IRC logs: stuff said is, IMHO, public domain, especially if on a channel itself.
If the person whose logs were posted wants to complain, maybe he should consider that this could have been avoided had he used something that DIDN'T log his words. :p Or even better, not been such an ass in the first place...
Anyone else notice the ever so small invasion of privacy issue?
Ok I have noticed some strangeness at EFront... The whole banner ads deal has hit Keen[Spot/Space] Yahoo and so it seems EFront (Thank you VA Linux for buying out Andover..)
EFront has overloaded the websites with ads lately in what appears to be an attempt to make money.
They recently dumpped the non-proffitable "Hang and Catch Fire" on-line comic and didn't tell the artists. (one writer two cartoonists)
So clearly something is up at EFront.
How are we to know this isn't spoken by pure frantic. Yeah people say some pritty ranchy things when they are frightend and EFront has reason to be fearful.
Yeah employees are gona get pissed on occasion. Hotheads exist. I'm talking about myself in part here I know what it is to lose my head with reguards to an employer. However the worst I have ever done was quit.
On the other hand......
Hay wouldn't it be funny if Andover bought out EFront....
I think we might want to not use the ICQ logs becouse of the privacy issue. Keep this to the more public stuff such as the public insults and visable efforts to bring in proffits.
This is a down turn for websites funded by banner ads.
I suspect there are three issues behind this...
1. People are buying less on-line due to the economy. So some are not inclined to throw money into Internet advertsing conserned that clicks no-longer turn into cash.
2. The TV industry has been pushing Internet companys to advertise on TV. Internet companys traditionally advertise on-line where the target market is.
3. Internet is still newish and many don't know what to make of them where as people know what to make of traditional advertising.
During an economic downturn banner ads are seen as risky.
On my end... banner ad prices are allready cheap.. Maybe some discounts exist... Time to go shopping.....
Andover seems to be taking this in stride and premoting internally. Good market move.
Andover builds up and EFront falls appart...
Andover will be in a better position for it...
I don't actually exist.
Seems that mame.dk has suffered the wrath of efront. Seems that they are down.
Course, it's possible that someone said that, but wasn't modded up, for which I apologize.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I think I saw a large , bronze wire-spool outside the Federal building in Indy. Perhaps that's the statue they were violating?
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
See those ICQ logs that were posted? Don't you think that's a horrific invasion of privacy? What right have you to complain about Carnivore snooping on you if it's ok for other people to invade people's privacy, even if you don't like the victims? Fight fire with water, not fire people, please.
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
I wonder if the disgruntled employee is named "Jarod" and subsequently disappeared after the incident with someone named "Ms Parker" and "Broots" looking for him at the efront offices a short time later.
working link:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?t
Connected to arcadeathome.efront.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.0
Referer: http://mamedk.cjb.net/
HTTP/1.1 302 Found
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:21:20 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.12
X-Powered-By: PHP/4.0.3pl1
Location: http://goatse.cx/
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
Yeah, but we already know that their servers are not that good. I am amazed that their servers crash often, they don't pay up, and people were still signing their contracts.... Glad I didn't.
Freaky news, geeky reviews
freakingeeks.com
I was the first person to get the logs from the hacker (kebie) I have no idea what any of that mumbo jumbo means, especialy because I live in Canada. I originaly gave the logs out to webmasters, because I was so pissed off, #1 I hadnt been paid in 5months, and #2 my net was getting cut off.. Plus efront was trying to blackmail us into new contracts.. they wouldn't give backpay till we signed these new crazy contracts that gave us no rights at all.. Me being the webmaster who was owed next to no money ($421), took it upon myself to release the logs. If any of the other webmasters did they would liable to lose $30,000+ and their sites. The logs had only been through 1 person before me, from what I know.
The rules of admissibility apply at such point in time as the evidence is put before a court. Because this information was gathered improperly before the investigation, but more importantly because these logs are electronic certain standards would likely be required by the court for any such records to be allowed into the case. Not to mention the potential argument of prejudice in releasing the logs publically before any charges were filed.
Did the parties who made these allegations feel their case is so weak that they would rather the case be tried in public opinion instead of in a court of law? That is what this says to me.
All legal arguments aside don't you feel it is unnecessarily risky of Slashdot to post these kkinds of allegations? The law DID say innocent until proven guilty, at least the last time I checked ...
If the parties that are responsible for these logs being posted do not have these logs to back up their claims, then their case is shaky. If they lose their case, then Slashdot becomes party to libel in civil court.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
And I'm not quite referring to this individual, who seems to be quite questionable, but rather why slashdot has gotten involved. Personally I am not connected much with the emu/rom community and I don't know all the details and I would venture to say most slashdot users are not either. Sounds like this person is going to be getting a full scale character assinsation by the slashdot community who are not really involved or knowledgable in the subject at hand. This slashdot court of public opinion can be a little dangerous. Just a few thoughts.