Northpoint Points South

RebornData (on behalf of the madding crowd) writes: "I'm sending this via a dialup account because Northpoint just shut off their network (according to my ISP -- Telocity) as a consequence of their financial troubles. Here's an MSNBC story about it. Telocity claims that they will find an alternative provider for me, but it will be at least three weeks. Methinks anyone trying to order / change DSL service from anyone in the next few months is going to be hosed ... because *every* Northpoint customer will have to be reprovisioned. Ugh." As a former Flashcom victim, my thoughts go out. And those of you with the enviable opportunity to catch up on some cuddling by the fire can perhaps burn all your old contracts and "cheap, always-on access" advertisements.

Comments

This isn't a tragedy of some sort

[Trepidity]

"My thoughts go out..." WTF? Having to use a dial-up account, especially temporarily, is not a great tragedy. Minor inconvenience sure, but large problem, no.

Re:This isn't a tragedy of some sort

[Trepidity]

Well I certainly hope no serious businesses are hosting anything important on DSL lines. If your servers were on a DSL line to begin with, well then you deserve what you get. If you're using it for internet connectivity for your employees, then it's more understandable, but broadband turn-around times are not 30-45 days unless you are looking at home-user-grade broadband connections. Call up your local telco and you can get hooked up with a T1 pretty quickly.

Re:This isn't a tragedy of some sort

[Trepidity]

There is more to life than online games.

Hell, I was using a dial-up connection that (because of the quality of my phone lines) wouldn't connect over 26.4 kbps up until 2 months ago. Sure, cablemodem is nicer, but it hasn't changed my life any. Going back to a modem would be inconvenient, but not devastating.

Hell, if you need to play online games that much, find some friends and have a LANparty.

Re:This isn't a tragedy of some sort

[raju1kabir]

Call up your local telco and you can get hooked up with a T1 pretty quickly.

On what planet is that??? Most parts of the US, if you can get a T1 provisioned and installed in under 6 weeks, you pretty clearly have a deal with Satan. 8 weeks is more typical.

Re:This isn't a tragedy of some sort

[cavemanf16]

You are all failing to realize that this guy probably works for/runs a small business! So it would not make sense for him to have ISDN, T1 and OC3 backup connections with a Beowulf cluster of servers. Some businesses just need an internet connection for their employees to go looking for info, work on webpages for other companies, etc. so it does behoove him to get an inexpensive broadband line. And DSL is the cheapest alternative out there for broadband up and down streams. In retrospect, I'm sure he'll look for more assurances from a broadband provider in the future that service will not go dark suddenly.

Before you mark me as flamebait, realize that there are companies out there using the internet for reasons other than hosting websites. Head hunters, webpage designers, etc. do not need an expensive T1 line, just always on connectivity.

Re:This isn't a tragedy of some sort

[gluebard]

Business DSL, Business DSL, Business DSL.. get it? This is not a minor inconvenience for businesses. With 30-45 day lead times for most any braodband alternative except cable this leaves many businesses including mine seriously screwed. Our office is dark now, we'll be working from home cable connections until Megapath can switch us to Rhythms and/or we get business cable installed. Far from being a inconvenience, this is shaping up as one of the worst user disasters in the brief life of the commerical Internet. Over 100,000 broadband connections going dark across the country representing many more users. There have been outages affecting far more users but not for 3-4 weeks.

re-provisioning DSL? You may be in for a suprise

[defile]

DSL is such a tangled mess.

Here's one charming example sent to my boss after we went through hell trying to set up only to have to cancel it since Verizon said he was too far from the CO (or something).

http://netgraft.com/~mbac/txt/verizon_morons.txt

Really? I've not seen that much better from ISDN.

[Svartalf]

ISDN's not any better and a hell of a lot more expensive.

ISDN's drawbacks:

In some areas, it's not much better than dialup (56k, has somewhatshorter latencies and connect times).

The ISPs will gig you for much more money the moment you add the second B channel (115-128kbps)- to the tune of as much as $300 per month for the privilege to go 128k with a block of four addresses.

They're no better at fixing screw-ups with the ISDN line as they are with your voice or xDSL line (If you're getting the xDSL from one of the Baby Bells, that is..)- it's really no better.

While I will agree with you about the CLECs butchering themselves on razor thin margins, I do not agree with you in the slightest that ISDN's are an answer to getting "reliable" connectivity.

what about the customers ?

[vluther]

I am one of the 100k customers who will be taking it up the tail pipe very soon.. My question is to all you Business/Legal people.. what can I as a business DSL customer do ? AT&T refused to buy Northpoint's customers, it seems northpoint had a lot of customers.. how were they losing money ?

Was my isp that contracted out to them not paying ? Or was it companies like flashcom ? Which went bankrupt and basically screwed northpoint as well all their customers ?

And how can Northpoint and ATT make such a deal ? knowing fully well how badly they're gonna screw over thousands of customers ? This deal hurt consumers..ARGH!!!!! I'm not making any sense.. I know but I have no clue who to get mad at.. NP ? ATT ? My ISP ? I've been paying my bill every month.. how come Northpoint was not recieving money ? and how come they have to shut down due to lack of funds ? especially if the "consortium" is willing to shell out 2.4 million in order to keep their customers happy.. What is northpoint doin with the 135million ? if they're goin bankrupt ?.. they're that badly in debt ? How ? Fuck FUCK FUCK FUCK.. Argh..

Re:what about the customers ?

[Noer]

I don't know what you can really do. But I know why this happened.

Verizon did the usual Bell Atlantic thing and made like they were going to buy out Northpoint... and then dropped it, causing Northpoint to look really bad and be unable to get other investors (as the other investors had already been scared away by Verizon). So Northpoint was screwed, and Verizon gets rid of a competitor.

This kind of crap should be examined by the feds.

With ISDN there's more than the ISP charges

[Spoke]

Don't forget that your telephone company will charge you per-minute while connected via ISDN.

This adds up pretty quick when you want you leave it on 24/7.

Let's see, at 1 cent a minute, it'll run you
60*24*30 = 43200 minutes in a month or $432/mo in telco charges.

Uh, no wonder ISDN isn't very popular.

Now if the telco doesn't charge per minute anymore, I want to hear about it!

Re:With ISDN there's more than the ISP charges

[StenD]

Don't forget that your telephone company will charge you per-minute while connected via ISDN.
[...]
Now if the telco doesn't charge per minute anymore, I want to hear about it!

Well, Southwestern Bell doesn't charge me for usage on my ISDN line. I don't know the details of the service plan, as it was set up by my employer about four years ago.

Re:With ISDN there's more than the ISP charges

[benenglish]

your telephone company will charge you per-minute while connected

I'll check. Many thanks to you if you've saved me from a grievous error.

Re:Why ATT didn't want the customers

[Lemmy Caution]

Their failure to provide the courtesy of a graceful transition period has resulted in me deciding to take my dial-up, long-distance, and cellular service away from AT&T, and bringing it elsewhere, as well as deciding to get DirecTV instead of cable.

My personal use of AT&T services comes out to about $3000 a year. Over a ten year period, that's $30,000. Spending a couple hundred dollars to preserve the connections for 30 days to protect a future $30,000 revenue stream sounds like a pretty good business decision to me.

Check out this petition.

Northpoint still on for SF peninsula

[deeny]

I'm writing this via my own Northpoint DSL line (through via.net), so I can assure you it's still on here, though it worries me that I might have to move to alternate IP addresses before my new line is turned on on 4/7.

_Deirdre

Our Northpoint link was cut a week ago w/o warning

[FreeUser]

Northpoint's warning was too late for us. Sometime between last thursday and friday our internet service went down. When we called XO Communications for service we were told they knew of no major outages. It wasn't until we dialed into another ISP and saw last Friday's Slashdot story on this very subject that we knew what was going on and confronted XO, finally getting them to admit that, yes, the link would never be coming back on.

A friend of mine (who serves a number of lawfirms that are Northpoint customers via XO) was informed yesterday that, as of Monday, they too will be out of service. At least he has time to get his DNS moved, while his email is still working. We on the other hand have experienced the joy of faxing and calling and waiting, only to still be unable to receive emails a week later (despite getting a new, 256k DSL link through another providor in our building). If you haven't moved your DSL from Network Solutions to someone who uses a less archaic form of authentication (e.g. Joker.com or domainmonger.com), do so before something like this bites you in the ass.

As of this morning I was "assured" the change to our new DNS servers (with new IP addresses due ot the ISP change) would be done by tonight (the fax and authorization was sent on Monday). Of course, I was assured the same thing yesterday, and the day before that, so I'm not holding my breath. Meanwhile web pages don't resolve and my users must make do without email. (as a comparison, nunames.nu took 30 seconds and $10 for the change to go through, $10 I would have gladly paid for such speedy service from NSI).

Thank you Northpoint. Thank you XO for the heads up. Thank you Network Solutions for your competence and responsiveness in updating your DNS maps. Not.

Even with notice, we got screwed

[dmuth]

I'm the sysadmin for suespammers.org, which was one of the many systems affected by Northpoint shutting down their network. I've seen other folks comment about MSN not given their customers notice, etc. Well, even with the notice, there was nothing we could do.

We got our Internet access through Infoasis, which told us on the 22nd about Northpoint. Yet, all we had was a week's notice, not nearly enough time to get another DSL line (from say, Pacbell) or a T1. Giving a week's notice was nothing short of irresponsible on the part of Northpoint.

Thanks Northpoint, thanks for not show any compassion for your customers and making us now have to scramble for alternate connections.

--

With practices like this...

[TWR]

I'm another "victim" of the NorthPoint shutdown, but I hardly feel like a victim. That's because I had IDSL for 3 months and paid absolutely nothing. That's right, nothing.

I signed up with Flashcom for IDSL at $50/month, free modem with one year contract. A guy from NorthPoint came out to do the installation. Everything was installed just fine and I rejoiced at being freed from my 33.6 network connection. The next day Flashcom announced they were dropping residential lines and selling the accounts on NorthPoint lines to Telocity.

I called Telocity, gave them my Flashcom account number, and they told me they never heard of me. I tried several times, always with the same response. I tried using Flashcom's on-line account number checker, and it didn't have any record of me. I called and emailed Flashcom, and they told me that they didn't own my account any more, so they didn't care.

In the meantime, no one was sending me a bill and my service just kept on working. I figured that I tried hard enough to pay SOMEONE, and stopped calling. If they don't want to take my money, so be it.

Telocity has basically gone under, Flashcom has gone under, and NorthPoint is now gone, taking my IDSL with them. I'd signed up for a backup dial-up account when I heard that Flashcom was going under, so I still have service, but I'm back at 33.6. Blah.

Maybe if any of these putzes had something resembling a billing system, this mess might have been avoided.

-jon

Wow. Okay.

[mindstrm]

SO I guess it sounds cool, that it's deregulated.
Ours is too; we could also do the same thing, but probably don't have big enough markets to make it worthwhile.

But when you get your service, who is the entity you chiefly deal with. I assume you don't deal with all 3 providers on your own from the start. Do you call the ISP and they arrange the rest or what?

Re:MSN DSL customers really screwed...

[suraklin]

Quit a few providers did not warn their customers. Xnet/Winstar sent no information and have not posted anything about Northpoint on their site. And of course they are very slow about getting back to complaining customers.

Some specifics about the Northpoint shutdown

[hndrcks]

Some technical background about why "those companies that shoulda saw it coming" couldn't have done much, regardless:

The Northpoint network used Copper Mountain DSLAMs with a frame relay backend. Rythms is the only surviving DSL provider that uses a similar setup, so customers in a CO that have a NPT _and_ Rythms DSLAM would be able to keep their router and IP. Everyone else is screwed.

Everyone is screwed anyway, because the ILECS, smelling blood, have refused to 'hot swap' the existing DSL pairs over to a new DSL provider. Verizon is the worst - full re-provisioning of the pair required, 20-30 days of delay and obfuscation until a 'new' pair is forthcoming, if ever.

Some ISPs have gone to local PSCs (public service commissions) to get relief. I believe the Texas PSC has sided with the ISPs, and required SWBell to hot-swap the pairs to a new DSL provider.

Re:Some specifics about the Northpoint shutdown

[Nexx]

Unfortunately, Missouri PSC will probably not do what the Texas PSC did, to further create the illusion of "SBC-friendly state" to get the SBC headquarters back in Saint Louis :-P
--

Re:A word about Phoenix DSL

[Saige]

Lucky you. I was also through Phoenix. And twice Telocity sent out migration information, saying it would happen within the next few weeks... and twice nothing occured.

I finally got the Telocity "modem" (it's only what, 4x the size of the Copper Rocket?), and wasn't bothering to set it up while my other one still worked. It went out for a day, so I tried setting up the Telocity one, and nothing. Just a nice flashing red "status" light. Fortunately, my old modem started working again.

Well, yesterday, DSL out again. Still no success with the Telocity modem. However, the copper rocket modem DOES have the green connect lights come on. So I don't know what's up anymore.

I'm going to call tonight and figure out what the hell is going on with my service if it's not working. Heck, even if it is working, maybe I'll call just to see where things are.

(Yes, it was Phoenix through Northpoint)
---

Awww

[bruns]

Its too bad, people expect alot for little. It just doesn't work that way. Had the companies selling DSL charged what is necessary to not only cover the costs of the DSL install and continuing service, but to make even a small profit, they might have lasted longer.

End users complain about reliability, but they dont bother to read about DSL before ordering it. If you have to depend on an Internet connection, you are better off with ISDN or T1. T1s have a SLA which guarantees certain uptimes. I cant remember the last time DSL had one. But like I said, people want alot for little, they dont want to pay 900 a month for a T1, they want 100 dollar SDSL or IDSL.

I dont feel the least bit sorry for people these days. If you want good service, go with a reputable local provider which has been around for years (not months) and get _real_ Internet access.

One of the reasons why the ISP I work at has survived for 7+ years is because rather then trying to take the world by storm and not being able to support the resulting customers, we focused on local access, not jumping on the bandwagon, developing our own tools and products, and made sure to not make the mistakes that other providers have. Doing real innovation, as well as providing the customers with service which outclasses even the largest national providers is one of the most important aspects of the job here.
When was the last time you could call an ISP's tech support and speak directly to the people who run the network (and without having to press one for billing, two for tech support, etc)? Average wait time for tech support here is 20 seconds. Maybe some other providers should try harder.

Trying to get support for DSL is frustrating esp. when it takes Verizon a week to get out onsite with the customer just to tell us nothing is wrong (and bill us for it), and another week for the DSL provider to get off their asses and fix the problem and tell us Verizon is at fault. You can sorta see the loop. It goes on and on... I mean, just the other day, Verizon took a pair of our lines providing our customers with DSL, and reallocated them for one of _their_ customers, totally ruining the DSL, making us look bad.

DSL providers like Covad wonder why they aren't getting paid for service - ISPs wont pay for service that either isn't there, or is down 90% of the time. ISPs wonder why they aren't getting paid for DSL service - consumers wont pay for service which they cant use or which isn't there.

*shrug* I am just tired of this crap. Spend the extra cash necessary to get reliable service and these problems wont happen!

Ok, I'm done with my rant :-)

If any northpoint customers happen to read this, e-mail me and I'll get you information on some providers who can help restore your service.

Why ATT didn't want the customers

[Vanbo]

It really sucks what ATT did in this whole mess. They took the hardware and let the customers high and dry and are as much to blame as Northpoint's management.

But lets look at ATT's decesion because it really makes a TON of business since:

1) Why keep DSL customers that have contracts and rates that you didn't promise them...

2) Don't give people enough time to switch them to other DSL providers but give them a shitty DSL experience. Who knows maybe they may try a certain cable modem service instead, ahem, @home?

3) When (if) ATT starts selling DSL they will have a network for pennies on the dollar, that they can force all the customers to their rates and terms and conditions.

ATT didn't do it because they are mean, they did it because it makes the most CENTS!

Wouldn't this affect cable modem services?

[antdude]

...since former DSL subscribers will probably end up getting cable modem. If that was the case, then our cable modem service will get even slower! What do you think? I use @Home (the only option for high speed Internet connection at a decent price).

Re:MSN DSL customers really screwed...

[kootch]

switch to XO. it might take a while, but it's worth it.

i made the switch (i'm in nyc) over a year ago, and have been much happier. yes, it's more expensive, but you get multiple ip's, reliable service, their customer support is pretty good when I need it, and they send you notifications a week in advance when there might be a 5 min window of issues with your line because they're fixing hardware.

all in all, my servers have been running smoothly on my dsl line for months.

MSN DSL customers really screwed...

[Noer]

From what I've heard from a reliable source (a friend of mine whose business used Northpoint until 3 days ago), MSN DSL customers are really screwed - MSN didn't give them ANY warning at all about the cutoff, and MSN contracts through Northpoint (err, that should be past tense, no?) in the New England area.

I would say "serves em right for using MSN," but MSN knew for days at least about this; I can't imagine an ISP not notifying its customers about this kind of cutoff.

It's a shame... Northpoint seems like they provided a good, reasonably priced, reliable service, especially when compared with, say, Verizon.

Re:MSN DSL customers really screwed...

[Wolfstar]

Um, not sure where you got your information, but I'd like to provide a different view.

I do commercial Level 2 Support for a large national ISP. We had a bunch of customers through Northpoint, and the network went down hard yesterday. My personal view on why they went under is that their support was horrendous.

When your line went down - and if you have DSL, your line WILL go down someday - you call into your ISP. Your ISP verifies their side, and then called Northpoint to open a ticket. You called into Tier 1, which basically took calls, noted down information, and read back to you what was posted on their support website. This info was largely useless, because as recently as October, right around when the deal with Verizon first came up, Northpoint used a paper-only trouble ticket system. Yes. Paper Only.

If, after two or three hours, the ISP hasn't heard anything or been contacted for testing, with Covad, you call up and talk to someone who can do the testing. With Northpoint, you had no choice but to call the Tier 1 folks, who promptly told you that there was nothing that could be done because they have four hours to respond. (I once called 2 hours in, sat on hold for an hour and 45 minutes for Tier 1, and when they picked up, told me that there was nothing that could be done, then hung up on me.) No matter how far you escalated the issue within their management, no matter how long the ticket had been open with them, you could not call any sooner than four hours and expect anything to get done.

Eventually, once the deal with Verizon fell through, this began to change. Rumor has it that they started using a computerized ticketing system at some point in there, and they removed the four-hour requirement. We were provided numbers that went directly to the Tier 2 testers, and sometimes things actually got done. There were still annoyances - if a customer went down, and it was determined that their router or DSL Modem went bad, a tech was sent out, tested with a spare modem, verified it, and then took the spare modem with them when they left!!!! Issues such as this were the norm, and why Northpoint went under is that their Partner ISPs - like us, who had over a thousand DSL customers through them - were constantly given the runaround when it came to support, and they didn't realize this until they were right on the brink, with Verizon backing out and virtually no hope of actually securing investment capital.

Northpoint had bad business practices and poor support, realized it way too late to do anything about it, and paid the price. Maybe their service was cheaper and more reliable than Verizon. But don't forget that you get what you pay for, and don't make the mistake of thinking that they were a decent company.

Telocity Sucks Too!

[jmorse]

I'm a (now former) Northpoint customer....up until two weeks ago I had heard nothing about my ISP switching all their accounts to Telocity. All of a sudden I get an email that says "...we have written you several times regarding the termination of your DSL service..." Do I called Telocity to migrate my service, and they can't find my data. The migration rep then pushed me over to new orders, and they couldn't find my information. After 6 phone calls (each about an hour long), I still don't have my gateway, and as far as I can tell I'll be without DSL for several weeks...UGH! I think I'll just stop paying!

But the screwing doesn't stop there...

[pongo000]

As I chronicled in this article, you are pretty much powerless to change DSL providers once they pull the rug from under you. That's because the contract for service is between the CLEC and your local phone provider -- not between you and the telco. So even though it's your name on the phone bill, you'll have a tough time convincing the phone company to terminate your current (underwater) DSL service so you can move to another service.

You won't find this little tidbit of information in your DSL service agreement. You're at the mercy of the CLEC to terminate its contract with the phone company.

Re:Fast, Cheap, Reliable -- Pick Two

[benenglish]

You want RELIABLE faster net access ? Get ISDN.

Faster than what? I think most DSL users want something faster than ISDN and won't want to step back.

However, for people like me who were far enough from the CO that we could only get IDSL (which is basically a type is ISDN) then switching to ISDN in the aftermath of the Northpoint fiasco is a perfectly good choice of action.

As an aside, when I got IDSL the equivalent-speed ISDN was just as expensive but I wanted "always-on," so I went for IDSL. (I've never used ISDN, so I'm not sure about the details.) Now, in checking for alternatives to DSL, my ISP has told me that because ISDN demand has dropped over the last year (everybody wants DSL), the price has also dropped. Bottom line: I'm replacing my USD$40/month IDSL service with USD$20/month ISDN service that's just as fast.

Folks on the fringes of DSL connectivity should *definitely* check out the ISDN alternative.

Screwed by Northpoint... A poem.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I write to you through AOL.
My life's become a living hell.

"Northpoint down? The devil you say!
Connect us to the net, and earn your pay!"

So 25 users, a modem share,
"You've got Mail" now fills the air.

This geeks unhappy, and not a poet.
You read this saying "Brother, don't I know it!"

My ISP has got their eyes on,
That magical fiber owned by Verizon.

While I sit here, screaming to those that know me,
"Those fuxors at Northpoint can feel free to blow me!"

Some information about the Northpoint saga

[stil]

The linked MSNBC story has pretty much all the information you need to know, as far as history goes. The interesting thing is what has happened in the the last week or so.

The CEO of Northpoint, Elizabeth Fetter, released a statement through their website (http://www.northpointcom.com/) on March 22 indicating that a network shutdown was going to happen at any time, and that subscribers should seek service elsewhere immediately.

Unfortunately, no major news organizations really picked up the news until later the next day (a Friday), with the end result being that many people didn't even find out about the news until Monday of this week.

Additionally, because Northpoint waited so long to contact its re-sellers (MSN & such), those resellers weren't able to notify thier customers until Friday at the earliest. For the business customers, many didn't find out what was happening until they got snail mail on Monday of this week informing them that their service was about to go kaput.

As to why Northpoint didn't give more forewarning, perhaps someone else can say. What I do know is that there are a LOT of DSL resellers out there that are hoppin' mad at Northpoint, because they are the ones that are about to lose business from their customers. Many forever, as customers move over to cable modems or fractional T1s after having been burned by thier DSL experiences.

Watch for companies heavily dependant on Northpoint for DSL re-selling to scramble mightily in the next few days - I wouldn't be surprised if some just went out of business.

Meanwhile, the DSL market becomes further consolidated by the big boys...

http://friendbear.betchuk.com/

stil

Switch To Covad, but the Baby Bells will screw you

[Oscar26]

I've got Covad DSL, and I have never had a problem with it. I know 3 other people who claim the same high level of service. The only problem (that everyone is facing) is the Baby Bells not switching people fast enough to the Covad network.

It's ironic, the Bells would rather you have 2 phone lines than a DSL and phone line, b/c they have higher proffit margins on the phone lines. They are in no rush to switch you over, and they know that they have (Covad, Northpoint, any other provider) at their mercies with the speed of there "response" (or lack of response)

Covad is also running a promotions to "grab" the northpoint customers. I don't know the details, I guess if you have compatable equipment they just switch ISP's, or if you ISP is in their network they just move you to Covad's. I'm not sure.

My company got hit, too

[RobFlynn]

My company lost service sometime yesterday as well. I have one of our servers here with me now, hoping to restore at least email service to the comapany in the next day or so. It'll be a couple weeks before we can get a new connection... Ugh

---
Rob Flynn

At least you HAD DSL.....

[Darth Turbogeek]

In good ol' Australia, we dont even have that option in a lot of places. Our major telco is not rolling out boradband in a big hurry, they make too much of existing ISDN to stop that particular moneytree. It really sucks that the only service I have is 56k and no more. Satellite is hideously expensive, and I dont have access to cable. Yes, and this is in Sydney. That sucks something fierce.

The only thing I am envious of the USA is the access to broadband that Australians can only dream of mainly. Well, me anyway. The lack of boradband is frustrating and I do feel for the people who will be affected.

ADSL is promised in my area for 2002. I'm not holding out much hope

Re:The companies should have saw this comming.

[pmcneill]

Actually, the ISPs couldn't do much about this due to either a bankruptcy law or a court order (can't recall right now). Essentially, ISPs were not allowed to start mass migrations away from NorthPoint because that would undermine NorthPoint's business and ensure that they would fail. Both my ISP (DSLi) and Telocity, and probably others, at least planned for this. As soon as NorthPoint got shut down, I called DSLi and was told I'll be back up on Rythms DSL by next Thursday.

Other ISP's getting saturated...

[John_Booty]

For the past week or so, my DSL ISP (Speakeasy) has been kinda saturated. I had three weeks of great service after I signed up, but in the last week or so my bandwidth has been shot to hell and I've been seeing packet loss. There's no packet loss between me and the gateway though so I can only assume it's congestion on their end... I think a lot of other ISP's are being saturated with Northpoint refugees too.

Well, consolidation is kinda scary but at least the survivors should be better off financially. I'm sure Speakeasy and the others are making some nice bucks from this. At least Speakeast is doing something about it... they'll have another OC-3 going up shortly, they say. Hmmm...maybe I'll just get my own OC-3 after I win the lottery. :)


http://www.bootyproject.org

My heart bleeds for you ...

[Naum]

... but you know what, the same thing is happening in the dial-up net customer realm too ... I would love to have cable modem and/or DSL access but it ain't in my neighborhood yet, and judging from the slowdown of broadband progress, it may not be a reality here for a couple of years ... Meanwhile, the enjoyable, reliable, dependable ISP service we received from a local ISP just vanished into thin air ... sold out to Earthlink - so after paying for a year in advance, all of a sudden I lost my email address (which they said I would have access to for post 90 days ...) and dialup service ... they said in a form letter that Earthlink would be sending us a packet and blah blah blah but we have yet to recieve a packet and our win-doze/linux dialup attempts are met with failure starting Wednesday ... if I desired Earthlink or AoL I would have signed up with them eons ago ... but now I have to seek another local provider - and I'm not certain that they're not headed to the same destination soon enough ... Basically, it sucks and there is no regulation and the customer can be royally fucked and there's nothing you can do ... I believe (or at least hope for ...) that this cries out for regulation of sorts - net access should be awarded the same consideration as TV/radio (FCC, etc.), phone, power ... considering that for many it is a lifeline to work, school, etc. and that access should be provided even to the most economically disadvantaged to grant opportunity to those who seek to better themselves ... Meanwhile, my emails to my "former" ISP go unanswered, though if my email account has been prematurely disabled, I don't figure they'll telephone me or send me a letter ... BTW, the provider name is Inficad in Phoenix, AZ area ... they can bite my shiny metal butt and if I had the power I would slap a class action lawsuit on their asses immediately ...

Thoughts Going Out Across Country!

[Sunlighter]

After Northpoint's internet service went out, Timothy's thoughts went out! Then other people's thoughts started going out as well! Brains all across America are shutting down, going dark! It's the end! Aaagh!

Wait a minute...

Thoughts go out

[Alien54]

As a former Flashcom victim, my thoughts go out.

Maybe this is not supposed to be related to the common phrase "my heart/feelings go out to them"

Maybe this means the thoughts go out, like "the lights go out", or like sending email out.

I got it. With the service shut down, his connections to the outside world are shutting down, and his thoughts are literally going out(that is, shutting down), sort of like HAL singing Daisy in 2001. His connection is so sssllloowww. Loosing touch with the digital world

What a horrible fate!

Watch out people. This could happen to you.

Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip

I knew they were good for something!

[tswinzig]

When tough times and bankruptcies take out the little guys, you can always count on monopolies to see you through!

Sad, ain't it?

Re:The others?

[cprael]

I'm just curious if the other providors are going to be able to handle this many people scrambling for access.

Well, I can only speak for my experience, but since our original is through RCN (nee Brainstorm), I asked them about T-1ish feeds, and was told that they'd had very few extra orders. OTOH, when I contact the nice Ricochet people to talk about setting up a quickie alternate (backup) feed, they were swamped with callers.

shoot the messenger

[deran9ed]

They did give proper warning from what I've seen on their website, and its a week old. Sure it may not be enough but they did give warning so this shouldn't have come to no surprise to anyone.

At this point it is clear that the sale process to which we have dedicated much effort has not yielded long term financing, or a strategic partnership that will allow NorthPoint to continue its current level of operations. As a result, the cessation of services to our customers and the complete shut down of our network is imminent. We will take the following steps: 1) effective immediately all pending orders will be held until further notice and 2) effective March 23, 2001 we will no longer accept new orders and will cease all new service installations. We urge you to take immediate action to secure alternate services for your needs.

If I had their service, I would demand a refund or start a group and bitch to their partners, anyone as a matter of principle. For those who are owed the full month if they had paid, or paid for yearly service. Not to be the bearer of bad news, but its users were warned, and unless you don't keep up to date with the services your purchasing then your no better than Northpoint is for not minding what your money is going to...

Toy truck thieves still at large!!

life saving techniques (ninja style)

[deran9ed]

Lots of people are getting hurt here

My condolences, care to send me their addresses I'll gladly call 911 and have an ambulance over to their house immediately. This is what a contract is for, you know, contract, the things that obligates a vendor to provide a service... As stated, those customers should legally go about getting their refunds, FYI no one is getting hurt, maybe their feelings are, but if you can tell me ONE INSTANCE WHERE THE INTERNET IS A NECCESSITY WHERE SOMEONE COULD NOT LIVE WITHOUT IT, then I'll forever shut the fuck up, if not your trolling, as am I for responding to your moronic post with a moronic rebuttal.

life saving techniques (shaolin style)

[deran9ed]

After a week lacking internet access, the company I work for could possibly cease to exist.

Then you my friend are working for a company with no managerial insights. Ever hear of Disaster management?

Our clients, without the service we provide, would also face the danger of catostrophic damages.

They too then have issues for not having a backup plan.

Companies, no matter what you think, are made of people, and people rely on their employment to provide food, money, and shelter.

This must be a new sort of business created being that 15 years ago the Internet was nothing. Wait... if your business did exist then, how did it carry out its business?

To answer your question, the person getting hurt is you, when my newly unemployed coworkers kill you for your shiny gold watch.

Highly doubtable ther "brutha" not where I'm from... Ever notice why school shootings never occur in New York City? Well the answer is simple, if a student pulls out a gun, another student will pull out a bigger one...

dont cry for me argentina

[deran9ed]

my thoughts go out... (sobs network packets)

MSN: Captain for get us to radio connection
DSL: You'll get never for our DSL lines
MSN: Warning you we be for the last time
DSL: What for are you to do
MSN: ALL YOUR DSL ARE BELONG TO ...

connection reset by peer

(sorry had to)

Bankruptcy Court Failed You

[loggia]

The Bankruptcy Court and the FCC completely failed Northpoint customers. Absolutely in no way should this deal have been allowed (AT&T buying Northpoint without at least temporarily providing DSL service). I can't tell if it is stupidity, politics or corporate lobbying that made this happen. I suspect it is stupidity, because leaving 100,000 DSL customers out in the cold is just too insane.

Saw this coming

[Jack Auf]

As a former employee of a 'major' DSL provider ( ! Flashcom ) I have seen this coming for some time now. Things like > 8000 subscribers on single 10Mbit connection, various ILEC's 'loosing' orders, Covad moving from the wholesale to the retail space (and back again), and on and on.

When you have Covad and Northpoint at the mercy of organizations like Pac Bell and Bell Atlantic, who are themselves tryng to move into the same market, build-out and service is bound to be problematic.

If you're thinking of DSL, don't bother. Trust me. Do your self a favor and spare yourself the 3-6 month wait and the migrane - just order cable if you can get it. If you can't, maybe you're neighbors will split a T1 with you.

It's only the Internet, not water

[ClubPetey]

After reading the posts on here you'd think the second coming of Christ was on hand. Everyoner says "It's not fair!" or "How could FCC, Courts, ATT, etc do this to us?" I have only two comments:

1. Company's have a duty to their shareholders and creditors, not their customers That's right, companies don't owe you squat. Look at the contract you signed. Do you see anywhere it says they have to provide service? No. The deal is you pay, they give you service, they don't give you service, you don't pay. Simple as that. This company was going out of business, they need to focus on getting the best deal for their shareholders and creditors. Customer sastisfaction is only important if your in business.

2. It's not the electric company Ok, if this was the California power companies, I could understand the concern. We have become dependant on certain utilities such as water, electricity, gas, heating oil. And in those cases I would say that those utilities and the governement have a responsibility to be sure that even if they go out of business, you still have power, water, etc. But this is the Internet, it's not a utility, you can live just fine without it. No one, no matter how geeky needs the Internet. Do you guy run out and protest the local Safeway when they close down a store near you? No.

"Well what about companies?" you say. Any company whose business relies on the Internet is not going to be Northpoint. If they are, they need a slap up-side the head. I bet they run Oracle on NT connected to NetApp too.
--
He had come like a thief in the night,

Fast, Cheap, Reliable -- Pick Two

[ccandreva]

OK -- I'm an ISP. But . .

The biggest problem with DSL is it came out of the gate at bargain basement prices. The CLEC's left themselves little margin, and cut huge deals for some companies that promised to sell a million lines -- ie Flashcomm. They couldn't do it, not even selling below cost.

Many small ISPs tried to compete on price, and can't. Covad was selling lines to me for more than Flashcom was selling to end users.

Now Flashcomm's Chapter 11, and I'm making a nice living. Not that Covad couldn't go under and screw me and my customers too.

You want RELIABLE faster net access ? Get ISDN. Faster than a modem, not likely to disappear without any warning, and higher in the priority queue to get fixed.

What a perfect time to switch to AOL

[aol]

The people who have been cut off should use this opportunity to join America Online.
Just look at our features.
56K connections
Email
Ease of use. (When you put a jpeg file in an email we automatically convert it into a bitmap just incase the person you sent it to can't see jpegs. The 50 fold increase in file size is well worth).
Glorious 256 color graphics.
Even more pretty but useless chat features.
Download AOL 6.0 today and enjoy 700 free hours.
Don't forget our new multilevel AOL marketing scheme where you get paid for each person you refer. Send out emails urging people to join AOL. If you send enough of them you might be able to quit your job from all the income.